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Third Duke University Student Indicted; President Bush to Call for National Guard Deployment on Mexican Border; New England Flooding

Aired May 15, 2006 - 13:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, live this hour, a third indictment in the Duke rape case. Another lacrosse player stands accused. And we are standing by for a live news conference from his attorney in Durham, North Carolina.
Also, New England flooding, and lots of it. Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney is touring the flooded areas in his state and will brief reporters live this hour.

Immigration battle. The Senate takes up the issue live this hour as the president prepares for a primetime address.

The second hour of LIVE FROM starts right now.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And at the top of this hour, another member of the Duke lacrosse team now faces charges in a controversial rape case. A grand jury indicted a third student a short time ago. David Evans, Duke senior and team captain, faces rape and kidnapping charges.

Jason Carroll is following the case in Durham, and he joins us live as a news conference is getting ready to start -- Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that news conference will be held at the jail. That's scheduled to get under way any moment now.

We have learned that Evans' attorney, Joe Cheshire, will be there. We are also told that Dave Evans himself will speak during the press conference to proclaim his innocence. As you know, just a short while ago, the grand jury handed up the indictment. Evans faces first-degree forcible rape charges, as well as first-degree sexual assault, first-degree kidnapping charges as well.

We're learning more and more as the hour continues about Dave Evans. And in fact, CNN can tell you that we have learned that at some point early on, Dave Evans actually took a polygraph test. And apparently, according to one defense source, he passed this polygraph test. And the defense went to the district attorney and said, look, he passed this one test, we'd be more than willing for you to conduct your own polygraph test.

The D.A., according to this source, denied that particular request. Of course, perhaps that's because polygraph tests, the results of those are not admissible in court. Tony, also you should know it was just this past Friday that the D.A. released that second round of DNA test results. Defense attorneys said that those results were inconclusive, although the report did name a third lacrosse player. That lacrosse player was, in fact, we have confirmed, Dave Evans. We have also confirmed that the report also mentions a fourth lacrosse player, but that the D.A. is not pursuing any charges against that fourth lacrosse player also named in that second DNA report that was released.

So that's a bit of new information as well.

So, at this point, we are waiting to hear from the -- from the press conference that's scheduled to get under way just any moment from Joe Cheshire, as well as Dave Evans, who is scheduled to speak as well. So we're going to be waiting for that to happen any moment from now -- Tony.

HARRIS: OK. Jason, what can you tell us about the evidence that was presented before the grand jury that led to this most recent indictment?

CARROLL: Well, as you know, grand jury proceedings are secret, so we're not privy to whatever evidence was presented. But we can only assume defense attorneys are assuming that the D.A. in this particular case mentioned the fact -- you know, presented this second round of DNA evidence that was -- that came about from the second report that was issued.

As you'll remember, the first report came back showing no match between this particular alleged victim and any of the players. Perhaps, also, Tony, also probably mentioned was the identification report that was done. You'll remember that the alleged victim in this particular case...

HARRIS: Yes.

CARROLL: ... was given a list and was shown all of the lacrosse players, all of their pictures. She said of Dave Evans that she was "90 percent sure." We have actually taken a look at that -- that report. She said she was 90 percent sure of this person, but she said it was the guy who had a mustache.

HARRIS: Oh.

CARROLL: Dave Evans does not have a mustache. His defense attorneys say he never had a mustache. So that might be problematic for the prosecution as well.

HARRIS: Yes. OK. So, Jason, looking forward to it.

Just sort of set the scene. In the hour we're expecting to hear from David Evans, attorney Joe Cheshire, and we may also hear from the young man who was indicted, David Evans, himself, correct?

CARROLL: That is what we are hearing, that we will not only hear from Joe Cheshire, that we will also hear from Dave Evans. Apparently, he is feeling so strongly about what has happened to him, apparently he wants to speak out as well. This is what we're hearing from a defense source, that both of them will be there ready to speak out just any moment from now.

HARRIS: And this will take place at the -- at the jail, correct?

CARROLL: That is at the jail, and the reason for that is because we are hearing that David Evans will, in fact, turn himself in this afternoon, wasting no time. You'll remember the first time we had these indictments that came down, they came in late in the afternoon. It was the following morning that we had Collin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann, the two other Duke lacrosse players who were charged in connection with this alleged rape, they turned themselves in the next morning.

HARRIS: Yes.

CARROLL: Dave Evans and his family wasting no time. They say not only will he turn himself in right away, he will go in front of the cameras, face cameras, face reporters to proclaim his innocence.

HARRIS: Boy, that sets up potentially a powerful moment.

Jason Carroll following developments in the Duke rape investigation for us in Durham.

Jason, we appreciate it. Thank you.

NGUYEN: Taking sides on the borders. The U.S. Senate is about to take another run at immigration reform from a completely different angle than the House took back in December. Tonight, President Bush will try to bring hard-liners on board with a call for a few thousand strategically placed National Guard troops.

CNN's Andrea Koppel has the lay of the land on Capitol Hill, and she joins us with the latest.

Hi.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Betty.

Well, the Senate is supposed to be starting debate on some possible amendments to its version of immigration reform. They're supposed to start debate later this hour. And as you know, there has been really a deep divide within the Republican Party itself between, on the one hand, the conservatives who are absolutely opposed to giving what they believe is amnesty, a path to citizenship to those 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants. And then on the other side, the moderates who feel that that's really the only reasonable thing that you can do, that you can't necessarily load these guys up and ship them back across the border.

And in between, you have a number of senators who have been trying to work out some kind of a compromise. The question is, will what President Bush has to say tonight about beefing up the border, about focusing Natural Guardsmen along the border between the U.S. and Mexico, be enough to win some people over to the compromise side, to the comprehensive -- what they refer to as a comprehensive bill.

Even those who have been in favor of a compromise, Chuck Hagel, for instance, from Nebraska, seem to express -- he was supportive of what the president had to do, but clearly said that it needs to be the first of many such steps.

Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: I am concerned that we have so overstretched our military, overstretched especially our National Guard. I'm not sure what capacity they would have. That's not the role of the National Guard.

If there's an immediate national emergency, that's the role of the National Guard. But I want to see what the president has to say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: Now, beyond that, what congressional sources tell us is that later today the president's political adviser, Karl Rove, is going to be briefing Republican members as to what President Bush, the kind of full extent of what he's going to be saying later this evening. But the question beyond what happens here in the Senate, if a bill does pass through later this month as both Republican and Democratic leaders hope it will, is what will happen over in the House. And that, Betty, many say is the -- is the real crux of the issue.

Will the hard-liners over in the House, the folks that passed that extremely tough border security-only bill last December, will they be convinced enough with what President Bush has to say, that they will agree to some kind of compromise, guest worker program path to citizenship? And that is -- that is really going to be a tough road to hoe for President Bush. In fact, some saying the president is going to have to follow up this evening's speech with a lot of hand- holding, a lot of reaching out to those Republicans like James Sensenbrenner, the powerful chairman of the House Judiciary Committee -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Andrea, we're watching right now as Senator Frist speaks on the floor. Obviously, a lot of debate, a lot of talk going on. If there is to be some kind of a compromised bill -- actually, let me get to that question in just a moment, Andrea. We're going to listen in for just a secretary to Senator Frist.

SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: I do want to say once again that we need senators to offer their amendments, to give us language on their amendments as soon as possible. The debate itself will be fair, will be dignified, and if we have all agreed, we want to be able to dispose of these amendments in a way that allows time for effective debate, whatever time is necessary for a debate, but we would expect to be voting about every two hours in order to -- it could go to three hours on some, it could go down to 10 minutes on others. But to -- in order to consider the range and number of amendments that have been proposed, we do need people to come forward, and we will deal with those accordingly.

This is an important bill. It's a bill that we have talked a lot about, we've had on the floor for a couple of weeks already. Since that time, there's been much good discussion both on the floor and off the floor. And I think everybody has spent a lot more time with the bill and with the proposed amendments.

Thus, I think we should be able to address the issue in a careful, deliberate way, complete way, and finish this bill before Memorial Day. It's an important bill. It's an important bill to our national security. It's an important bill to our values, to our economy, and to our safety.

Mr. President, I have a brief statement to make on another -- another topic, but I turn to the Democratic leader if there's any comments on scheduling or...

NGUYEN: You've been listening to Majority Leader Senator Bill Frist. Of course we're going to hear from many, many more senators as this debate continues on the Senate floor today. Of course the topic, immigration, something the president's going to be talking about tonight, something we are going to be talking about all afternoon long. So stay tuned as we continue to follow every single bit of it -- Tony.

HARRIS: Lou Dobbs coming up.

NGUYEN: That's going to be good. Get ready.

HARRIS: The borders are one thing, but city limits are something else entirely. And the city of San Bernardino, California, is testing the limits of local immigration regulation.

CNN's Kareen Wynter is there.

Hi, Kareen.

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Tony.

That's right, there's a resident here who, in essence, took this immigration debate head on by drafting an initiative that calls for some of the most aggressive anti-illegal immigration measures on record. We're talking about Joseph Turner here, who was able to gather enough votes -- enough signatures, rather, by residents here in this community to force a vote by city council.

That will take place later on today, but first let's take a look at this proposed ordinance that calls for, first of all, a ban on city-funded day labor centers here. Also, they want to seize cars belonging to those who solicit day laborers. That's what Turner is pushing for, to prohibit renting or leasing to illegal immigrants, also to punish business that aid or abet undocumented workers. And finally, mandate an English-only policy when it comes to how all official city business in conducted here in San Bernardino.

Now, Turner flat out says illegal immigration is a crime, and says while he can't change things at the federal level, he can take a stance, he can make a difference here within his own city limits.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can solve the problem in my back yard and you deal with it. And they can push it to somewhere else and eventually the federal government and the state government's got to do something about it, because people are going to get tired of having the problem pushed on to them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For us to just say, well, Washington isn't going to do their job so we'll do it, too. What next? Are we going to start building borders around San Bernardino?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WYNTER: Latinos make up nearly half of the residents here in the city. Two hundred thousand, that's the population here. And so illegal immigration supporters say they are prepared for a fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This initiative is Draconian, it's racist, it's -- it is heinous in its temperament and its objective and so forth, that it does not bring anything good for the city of San Bernardino. That for us it's become the call of (INAUDIBLE), and we're going to do battle by registering people, making sure that we're ready to get the vote out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WYNTER: That's the latest here, Tony. We'll send it back to you.

HARRIS: OK. CNN's Kareen Wynter for us.

Kareen, good to see you. Thank you.

CNN brings you extensive live coverage tonight before, during and after President Bush's speech. Starting at 7:00 Eastern, a special edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer. That's followed by the president's address, live at 8:00. Then it's a special edition of "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" at 8:30. At 9:00 Eastern, Larry King is live from a California border crossing. And finally, a special edition of "ANDERSON COOPER 360" live from Chicago.

NGUYEN: Speaking of live coverage, have you seen the flooding in New England? It is bad, very bad. In fact, the worst in some 70 years.

Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney is speaking to reporters about what he has seen today. He has toured some of the flooded areas. Let's take a listen to what he's saying. (JOINED IN PROGRESS)

GOV. MITT ROMNEY (R), MASSACHUSETTS: ... rivers downstream, because we are seeing sewage going into the river now. Because of the high level of the water flow in the river, it's being diluted pretty effectively, but with Lawrence being shut down at some point soon, why, that could become a bigger problem. Long term, the environmental impacts are being evaluated by our Department of Environmental Protection, particularly downstream, and in our shellfish beds, where the Merrimack River empties into the ocean.

So those are big concerns. And last time we had a storm like this, our problem was right here at the MWRA facility in Deer Island. We lost power for about an hour, and we were able to get that back up with the emergency generation system. Right now, I understand the emergency generators are working here just to make sure that in the event that power was interrupted, that there would never be any period of close-down.

Now, there are other concerns we have besides those that are environmental and relating to sewer and drinking water. They relate to evacuations.

The lieutenant governor and I have toured cities today and last evening, and in each case we've seen the need to evacuate individuals. I think it's important to note that we've seen a lot of evacuations. Hundreds and hundreds of people have been taken out of their homes and the senior centers and apartment buildings, some by boat and moved to shelters and other facilities. But -- but it's going to get worse before it gets better.

MEMA informs us that based upon their calculations, the cresting of rivers will not occur until this evening. Actually, sometime between 2:00 and 3:00 a.m. Previously, we thought the cresting would occur at about 8:00 p.m. this evening, but instead, it's going to be all the way over into the wee hours of tomorrow morning between 2:00 and 3:00 a.m.

And that means that the water levels that are standing today and causing evacuation are going to get worse. And as a result, our police departments and fire departments are going to need to evacuate a larger number of people than they had anticipated because of these higher water levels.

You should note that the water level at the Merrimack is higher than it has been since the 1930s, and we anticipate it's going to continue to rise. We don't think it will reach exactly the height of the level that was reached in 1936, but if not, it will get very, very close to that level. What that means is that the affected businesses and homes will be at a record level for this river, and substantially more severe than we faced last fall with the high rains at that time.

We are concerned also about the stability of certain bridges throughout the Merrimack River Valley area and...

NGUYEN: You've been listening to Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney talk about just the disastrous flooding not only in Massachusetts, in a lot of parts of New England states. Mandatory evacuations are under way. Rain is still falling.

As you heard the governor say, it is going to get worse before it gets better. This flooding is so bad, levels are as high as they were back in the 1930s.

So we're going to keep on top of this. We're going to keep monitoring it and bring you the latest as it comes into CNN.

And you can watch the rest of that if you'd like to stay tuned live to CNN Pipeline. You can see the full live news conference from Governor Mitt Romney.

Now back to the top story this hour.

A news conference expected any time now on the third indictment in the Duke rape investigation. And we may hear from the accused lacrosse player himself.

The news keeps coming. We'll keep bringing it to you. You don't want to miss it.

More LIVE FROM next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: David Evans is his name, and he is the latest Duke University lacrosse player indicted in the rape investigation. We are standing by waiting for a live news conference to take place any minute now. His attorney, Joe Cheshire, along with David Evans himself, are expected to speak at this news conference. And when they step up to the microphones, you know we're going to bring it to you live when it happens.

HARRIS: How high are the stakes in the immigration battle? Just look to the White House.

In under six hours, President Bush talks to the nation about immigration reform, the first time he's used the Oval Office for a domestic policy speech. The debate is going on, on the Senate floor right now. Let's listen in for just a moment to Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid.

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: I was in the Congress 20 years ago and served in the House of Representatives when we passed an immigration bill. Mr. President, obviously we didn't do a very good job, because now, 20 years later, we have at least 12 million people who are here that are undocumented.

NGUYEN: All right. We're going to switch from this just momentarily. A lot of debate going on, but this is what we want to get you to right now as the attorney for David Evans, the latest Duke lacrosse player indicted in the rape investigation, has stepped up to the microphones.

Let's take a listen.

JOE CHESHIRE, DAVID EVANS' ATTORNEY: Thank you all for coming here this afternoon.

As you know, the grand jury in Durham County indicted David Evans today for the same crimes that Collin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann were indicted for earlier. David is here to voluntarily turn himself in. We expect that he will bonded out today, and we will go through the process in an orderly fashion.

David wants to make a statement to you all. After he finishes his statement, he will take no questions. And I hope you all will respect that and understand that. When he gets through making his statement, I have a statement to make to you all, and I will entertain questions.

Also, with David today in support of him are all of the seniors on the Duke lacrosse team. I want you all particularly to respect their presence here and to understand that they do not want to answer questions.

This has been a very difficult time for the university. It's been a very difficult time for this team. Any of you that have ever been associated with a team know that you love your teammates, and these young men are here to support not only David Evans, but Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty, as they know that no crime was committed on the evening in question at that house. So please have that respect.

David's family is also here. And again, we understand and have tried to cooperate with all of you all in every way we can, but please have respect for these people. They are the mother and father and other family members of an innocent, wrongly accused person. They are victims, and they are suffering, and I would appreciate your respect.

So with that, I want to introduce you to David Evans, for him to make a statement.

Thank you.

DAVID EVANS, CHARGED WITH RAPE: I want to thank you all for letting me speak to you today. My name is Dave Evans, and I'm the captain of the Duke University men's lacrosse team. I have to say that I'm very relieved to be the person who can come out and speak on behalf of my family and my team and let you know how we feel.

First, I want to say that I'm absolutely innocent of all the charges that have been brought against me today, that Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty are innocent of all the charges that were brought against them. These allegations are lies, fabricated -- fabricated, and they will be proven wrong.

If I can go back to two months ago, when the police first came to my home, I fully cooperated and have continued to try to cooperate with them. When they entered in and started to reach the search warrant, my roommates and I helped them find evidence for almost an hour and told them that if they had any questions we would gladly answer them to show that nothing happened that night.

After that, I went down to the police station and gave an uncounseled statement because I knew that I had done nothing wrong and did not feel that I needed an attorney. After going through photos of my teammates and identifying who was there, I then submitted, perfectly willingly, DNA samples to the police. I then turned over my e-mail account, my AIM account, any kind of information that they could have to show that I had not communicated any way that anything happened, because it did not happen.

After that, I asked to take a polygraph, which was refused by the Durham Police Department. Over the past several weeks, I've repeatedly, through my lawyer, tried to attempt -- tried to contact the district attorney. All of my attempts have been denied.

I've tried to provide him with exculpatory evidence showing that this could not have happened. Those attempts have been denied. And as a result of his apparent lack of interest in my story, the true story, and any evidence proving that my story is correct, I asked my lawyer to give me a polygraph.

I took that polygraph, and it was administered by a former FBI top polygrapher with over 28 years of experience. He's done several hundreds of sexual cases, and I passed it absolutely.

And I passed that polygraph for the same reason that I will be acquitted of all these charges, because I have done nothing wrong and I am telling the truth. And I have told the truth from day one.

I'd like to say thank you to my friends and family, my coach, and members of the community who have stood by us through everything from the initial weeks to now. Their support has given me the strength to come through this. But the thing that gives me the most strength is knowing that I have the truth behind me, and it will not phase me.

If I can close, I've always taken pride in my name. I take pride in my name today. And I'll gladly stand up to anything that comes up against me. I've never had my character questioned before.

Anyone who's met me knows that this didn't happen. And I appreciate your support.

As for my teammates, I love you all. I've never -- the honor of being voted captain of all of you, the 46 best guys you could ever meet, has been the greatest honor of my life.

If I can clear things up and say this one more time, I am innocent. Reade Seligmann is innocent. Collin Finnerty is innocent. Every member of the Duke University lacrosse team is innocent.

You have all been told some fantastic lies. And I look forward to watching them unravel in the weeks to come, as they already have in the weeks past, and the truth will come out.

Thank you for your time.

CHESHIRE: Thank you all very much.

I have a few comments that I would like to make to you, and then I would be more than willing to answer some of your questions. Obviously, we can't answer every question that you might have.

But I want to start my comments by reading from you -- to you a statement that Mr. Nifong made to the press on March the 30th. I inquired, "Why is he going out and saying they are guilty? Why is he classifying this as a fait a compli gang rape?"

That was a quote attributed to me. It then says, "But Nifong says he hasn't accused anyone of anything," which you'll all know when you go back and look at your reports was not the truth.

Noting he has said he wouldn't make any arrests unless DNA tests turned up conclusive evidence, "I've told everybody who has asked me that I do not believe that a sexual..." -- that "I do believe a sexual assault occurred," he said. "I haven't pointed a finger at anybody. It is possible -- I don't expect this -- it's possible that the DNA could come back, and we would see that it was someone who didn't match the profile of the lacrosse players."

That is one of the many quotes that Mr. Nifong made. The DNA is now back a second time, and it does not match any of the lacrosse players.

In fact, the only single source male DNA shows that it was someone other than a Duke lacrosse player. And yet, Mr. Nifong has chosen to again indict, as he promised he would during his political campaign, a third lacrosse player.

Now, I want to talk to you briefly about what the evidence against this third lacrosse player, David Evans, is. And I want to also tell you that what David Evans told you this morning is correct.

We have sought time and time again to speak to Mr. Nifong. We have provided him with exculpatory evidence that shows without a doubt this young man, just as Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty, are innocent. He has refused to speak to us and refused to speak to us as late as 9:30 today.

We have asked him to speak with David Evans. He has refused to speak to David Evans.

In the lineup that has been talked about so much, even though it is a suggestive and unconstitutional lineup, it is true that this false accuser pointed David Evans out with 90 percent certainty as being the person that attacked her. She then was asked if she was sure, and she said, "Well, if he had the mustache that he was wearing the night of the attack, I would be 100 percent sure."

Mr. Nifong knows that David Evans has never had a mustache. We have pictures of David Evans from the day before, the day after, and almost every other day, along with scores and scores of people's testimony to indicate that he never had a mustache. So this 90 percent identified person who had a mustache is not David Evans. That is one of the pieces of evidence that Mr. Nifong is using.

David Evans was at the house that night. He is the captain. He did live there. We will provide evidence from credible people, many credible people, that will show where David Evans was each and every minute of that evening, and it will prove absolutely, unquestionably, just as Colin Finnerty will, just as Reade Seligmann, that this rape not only did not happen, but it could not have happened.

And we have, again, presented that evidence to the district attorney's office, who has simply refused to listen to any of it on behalf of any one. Then we have the DNA evidence that came out, as you all know, last Friday, which does show no conclusive match to any Duke lacrosse player, but does show that there is -- they are unable to exclude a match on one plastic fingernail -- exclude match on one plastic fingernail in the trash can which contained numerous items, as we will show you, of Dave Evans' DNA that they cannot say absolutely that it wasn't Dave Evans.

That, according to our experts, as about a weak a DNA analysis as you could ever have. I don't have to get into transference with you, but I do want to get into you about this fingernail is you all just wait until you see the fingernail and match it up to this false accuser's statement. It will show you a tremendous amount.

I want to say to you also that this...

NGUYEN: You've been listening to Joe Cheshire, David Evans' attorney. We also heard from David Evans just a few minutes ago. He is the third Duke lacrosse player indicted today in this rape investigation.

A lot of interesting things said here. One, David Evans saying I am absolutely innocent. Reade Seligmann, Colin Finnerty, the other two lacrosse players indicted. The entire Duke lacrosse team, all innocent, and going on to say you have been told some fantastic lies. Of course, we want to hear from the district attorney, what he has to say about all of this. Maybe we will get some answers there.

CNN's Jason Carroll is live in Durham, North Carolina. We're going to be speaking with him at the top of the hour, so you'll want to stay tuned for that.

In the meantime, the news keeps coming. We keep bringing it to you. Stay with LIVE FROM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVANS: And I passed that polygraph for the same reason that I will be acquitted of all these charges, because I have done nothing wrong and I am telling the truth and have told the truth from day one.

I'd like to say thank you to my friends and family, my coach and members of the community who have stood by us through everything, from the initial weeks until now. Their support has given me the strength to come through this. But the thing that gives me the most strength is knowing that I have the truth behind me, and it will not phase me. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL ROVE, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: I don't care if you're hunting deer in February or mowing the roads in the middle of the pasture in August, you will find somebody carrying a plastic jug and a plastic bag in the middle of the cold winter or the very hot summer trying desperately to get north in order to earn money to put food on the table for their families. We've got to deal with that reality.

On the other hand, we also have to deal with the reality that people die. I've seen a couple of corpses out there. I don't want to see them again. And you also have to deal with the reality that we've got a border that is so porous and so insecure that who knows whether that is simply an illegal immigrant looking for -- to get the job at a landscaping company or throwing tar, or whether it's somebody who wants to do something worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Let's take you to the Senate floor, where the debate is going on right now on the Senate floor over the compromised language on immigration reform. That compromise calls for a path for illegal immigrants in the country for more than five years to pursue legal immigration and a guest worker program. We'll ask Lou Dobbs about that in a moment.

So how high are the stakes in the immigration battle? Just look to the White House. In under six hours, President Bush talks to the nation about immigration reform, the first time he's used the Oval Office for a domestic policy speech. He wants to send thousands of National Guard troops to the U.S./Mexico border, and for now that's raising a lot of fears and a lot of questions.

Our own Lou Dobbs have been passionate about this issue for years. He joins us live from Washington, where he will be joining Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM" to lead our coverage tonight on the president's speech tonight.

Lou, good to talk to you.

LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good to be with you, Tony.

HARRIS: Let's start with Mexico's president, Vincente Fox. He's worried about the United States; in his words, "the militarization of the border."

DOBBS: Vincente Fox, in calling President Bush to express his concern about taking troops, National Guard troops, to the border, really is expressing himself for the first time about the security of that border. Vincente Fox, Tony, as you well know, has the wherewithal to secure that border from his side, as well, and to stop the illegal immigration of his people northward. But instead, President Vincente Fox and the presidents of Mexico, for the past nearly 20 years, have encouraged their citizens to move north illegally. And the idea that Vincente Fox would call George Bush to complain about this is a pathetic statement, really.

HARRIS: Hey, Lou, I snatched this from Jamie McIntyre. This is the Bush immigration plan. And it says "no military role" -- we're talking about the National Guard here...

DOBBS: Right.

HARRIS: No military role in A, law enforcement; no military role in arresting illegal immigrants; no military role in detention; no military role in transportation. Well, what are they going to do?

DOBBS: Well, that's an excellent question. And we'll know at 8:00 p.m. Eastern tonight here on CNN, Tony. But if this is -- the president -- this could be the most important speech that he will make to the American people in the next two and a half years. If this president chooses not to lead and to simply put a salve and a veil over the problem of a border so porous that three million aliens cross into it each year, there will be not a disconnect between this president and this government and the American people, but a rupture.

HARRIS: Well, let me ask you...

DOBBS: The polls show definitively that the American people expect their president and this government to secure these borders. And if this turns out to be nothing more than a fig leaf, an artifice, then I think this president will see poll numbers that will make these that he's experiencing today, the lowest of his presidency, seem like the Himalayas.

HARRIS: But, Lou, if you look at this plan again and all of the things it calls for, wow, doesn't it feel like it's toothless? Doesn't it feel like the National Guard will be there essentially to push paper?

DOBBS: If that is indeed the case, with about 11,000 border patrol agents to cover 7,500 miles of borders with Canada and Mexico. Then we are continuing a sham. Homeland Security -- make no mistake about it, most Americans have no illusion -- the Department of Homeland Security is nothing more than a $40 billion sham.

Five percent of the cargo coming into our ports is inspected, 95 percent isn't. Three million illegal aliens cross our borders every year unimpeded. That is an atrocity against the very idea of security.

HARRIS: Lou, what did you say, a 40 what? You said a sham?

DOBBS: Forty billion dollar budget for Homeland Security.

HARRIS: Forty billion dollar sham. Do you have any expectation that moving National Guard troops to the southern border will have any real impact?

DOBBS: Well, I'm trying my very best not to prejudge what the president will say tonight, because I remain, as always, an optimist and I'm hopeful. The details of what the president will announce are not out there.

Senator Bill Frist, the majority leader, has said he believes border security must be first. I have said for years that you cannot reform immigration law in this country if you can't control immigration. You cannot control immigration if you're not in control of secure borders. If this president resists the logic of that straightforward syllogism, I think the American people will be more than disappointed.

HARRIS: One more quick question, with this move, you make desperate people even more desperate, Lou?

DOBBS: No, I don't. You don't. Their governments do. These are citizens for the most part, a preponderance of illegal aliens, are from Mexico.

What their government has done to them is an atrocity that this government and administrations before it going back to 1986, we have been complicit with the governments in Mexico and most of the governments of Central America in allowing their people to be the last concern of their governments.

That kind of foreign policy is at the root of the problems that these people are experiencing. We are not the cause of their problem, tony. Make no mistake about it. We are simply complicit with their governments in their neglect, and that's a shame. That certainly is one of the aspects that I hope this government and any government would deal with.

HARRIS: Lou, let's leave it there for right now. Can't wait to see the coverage tonight on CNN. You and Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. Can't wait. Appreciate it.

Still to come, Christine Chavez, another view on this, a candidate for the California assembly and granddaughter of Cesar Chavez after the break.

NGUYEN: In the meantime CNN continues its year long look into the future, your future. This month we focus on the workplace. In just six years, 19 percent of America's work force will be over the age of 55. Surprisingly recent AARP studies show these aging employees are not necessarily thinking about retirement.

CNN's Miles O'Brien has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARY: Staying active physically helps to keep you alive mentally.

I am a grandmother of three beautiful little girls and I take care of them during the daytime and then I work here at Borders at night. That's a grand total of an 87-hour work week. When I first started working, my dad said to me, don't ever be caught standing around. But I'm not so sure how pervasive that kind of work ethic is anymore.

My goal is to try and continue to work at this pace as long as my health will allow.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: It turns out that Mary is not alone. As a matter of fact, nearly three out of four baby boomers say they plan on staying in the workplace beyond the age of 65. In fact, many are vowing to work well into their '80s.

Brace yourself for a graying workforce, employers.

O'BRIEN (voice-over): Many people are staying at work longer for the medical benefits or the money, or they simply want to stay active.

Debra Russell of the American Association of Retired Persons says these workers are about to give retirement a whole new meaning.

DEBRA RUSSELL, AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF RETIRED PERSONS: Retirement is going to be much more of a cyclical type of event, where people are going to be in and out of the workplace. They many not want to work in the same job for as many hours, but they're going to want to be engaged in the workplace.

M. O'BRIEN: And while a handful of companies are embracing their older staffers, Russell says many employers are stuck in some old stereotypes about the value of seasoned workers.

In the future, those that make it easier for older workers will have an easier time finding good employees.

RUSSELL: The changing demographics is going to require them to look differently at 50-plus workers. It shouldn't matter too much how old that person is. It's really what do they bring to the table and are they getting that job done?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And time now for more of our immigration debate, which is really heating up ahead of President Bush's prime time Oval Office speech. He wants to send thousands of National Guard troops to the border, and that's sparking fears on both sides of the border. Christine Chavez is a candidate for the California assembly and is the granddaughter of activist Cesar Chavez and is a noted immigrant activist in her own right. Christine, good to talk to you.

CHRISTINE CHAVEZ (D), CALIF. ASSEMBLY CANDIDATE: Thank you for having me on.

HARRIS: Let me start with the idea the president is going to propose tonight, moving National Guard troops to the southern border. Mexico's president Vicente Fox called President Bush over the weekend and voiced his concern about the militarization of the southern border. Do you share his concern?

CHAVEZ: You know what? We do not feel that that is the best way. Our National Guard is already overextended and I think we're just not dealing with the problem at hand right now. The issues is that we have millions of hard-working people, farm workers who put food on our tables and hotel workers who clean our hotel rooms and janitors who clean our building. We are looking to make them a part of this society, and the best way to do that is putting them on a path towards earned legalization. We disagree with putting the National Guard at the borders. It is just not going to work.

HARRIS: Does this proposal feel in any way like the beginnings of a face-off between the U.S. military and Mexico?

CHAVEZ: No, I don't believe so, because I don't believe that we are going to see that actually go through. I mean, I don't think that this is -- any person can tell you this is not a logical solution. This is something that they're trying to have a quick response to a problem that should have been dealt with years ago.

HARRIS: Do you have any expectation that should this move be approved that it will make any kind of a dent at all in illegal border crossings?

CHAVEZ: No. I think we'll see people, immigrants coming here to work are going to start taking more dangerous paths than they're taking. We may see more deaths out there in the deserts. I know that people don't want to see that.

HARRIS: Will this make desperate people even more desperate?

CHAVEZ: I believe so. I believe so. You're going to see them go into more remote areas where there isn't -- they don't have access to anything. You will see them paying these coyotes larger fees and just putting themselves in more danger just to be here.

HARRIS: Christine, let me give your response to this. The most recent CNN poll indicates that sympathy for illegal immigrants has dropped by 13 points from a month ago. There is less sympathy for illegal immigrants here now. What do you attribute this to, and what's your response to those poll numbers?

CHAVEZ: I disagree with those.

HARRIS: You don't believe the polls?

CHAVEZ: I think people would like to see hard-working immigrants put on a path towards legalization and not amnesty. Maybe it was the way the poll was worded. I think that a majority of people say you can't argue with -- there's thousands and thousands of farm workers toiling in the fields so when we go home tonight we can enjoy a salad or fruit. There isn't anybody that can deny that these people just want to come out of the shadows and join all of the other American workers and have all the same rights and opportunities everybody else has.

HARRIS: You don't believe that there is a backlash formed?

CHAVEZ: I don't believe. I don't believe. I think that most Americans would like to see, you know, farm workers and other workers put on a path towards earned legalization.

HARRIS: What about in San Bernadino County where, as you know, there is a proposed ordinance that would prohibit illegal immigrants from renting property and it goes on from there?

CHAVEZ: That's just outrageous. And we're going to do everything that we can to work with the local elected officials and local leaders to make sure that that doesn't happen. I mean, we've got workers out there right now that yes, they are undocumented, but where are we going to have them live? I mean, that's also an agriculture area. Once again, we're not looking at solutions, we're just looking at quick fixes.

HARRIS: Christine, respond to the notion finally here that the hand has been -- the immigration hand has been overplayed by all kinds of organizers who are pushing this cause forward and taking the march even tomorrow to Washington, that the hand simply has been overplayed.

CHAVEZ: No, I don't believe so. I don't believe so. We saw all the marches and we're seeing the lobbying tomorrow. But that's exactly what we need to do to make sure that our voices are heard and make sure that we are asking people and asking the legislature to put us on a path towards earned legalization.

HARRIS: Christine Chavez, we appreciate your time. Thank you.

CHAVEZ: Thank you.

HARRIS: CNN brings you extensive live coverage tonight before, during and after President Bush's speech starting at 7:00 Eastern. A special edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM," that's followed by the president's address live at 8:00. Then it is a special edition of "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" at 8:30, hot fireworks. At 9:00 Eastern Larry King is live from a California border crossing. Finally, a special edition of "ANDERSON COOPER 360" live from Chicago.

The news keeps coming. We'll keep bringing it to you. More LIVE FROM next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Well, a new era in relations between the U.S. and Libya, that is how Washington views the move to restore full diplomatic relations with Tripoli after more than a quarter of a century. Since 1980, Libya has been labeled a terrorist state. It's leader, Moammar al Gaddafi constantly thumbed his nose at the west. But when Saddam Hussein fell from power, the Libyan leader made an about face renouncing support for terrorism and agreeing to give up his weapons of mass destruction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

C. DAVID WELCH, ASST. SECY. FOR NEAR EASTERN AFFAIRS: Today's announcement demonstrates that when countries make a decision to adhere to international norms of behavior, they will reap concrete benefits. Libya serves as an important model as we push for changes in policy by other countries such as Iran and North Korea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Now this move to restore diplomatic ties with Libya is leaving a bad taste in some people's mouths. They are the relatives of the 270 people killed when Pan Am flight 103 exploded over Lockerbie, Scotland. A Libyan intelligence agent was convicted of that terrorist act, but some people are convinced Libya's leaders ordered it. And that includes Stephanie Bernstein, whose husband was on the flight. She calls this a sad day for human rights.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANIE BERNSTEIN, WIDOW OF PAN AM 103 VICTIM: This is also a sad day for the Libyan people. Libya is a police state, and if anything, the Libyan people will greet the news that the people who oppressed them have been now granted carte blanche to have the oil companies come back in to buy whatever kind of weapons technologies they want. This is not a victory for the Libyan people at all. This is not supporting democracy in Libya.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: And even though Libya has agreed to provide more information about the bombing of flight 103, Stephanie Bernstein doubts the real killers will ever be brought to justice.

HARRIS: Now the headline is a scary one, gators attacking humans. We'll meet a man who fights back against those aggressive gators ahead on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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