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Third Player Charged in Duke Rape Case; Immigration Debate Hot in U.S.; U.S. Restoring Relations with Libya

Aired May 15, 2006 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CO-HOST: And live from CNN's world headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Tony Harris. Immigration back on the front burner in Washington today, and President Bush is adding something new to the mix. He'll speak to the nation in a few hours, but first the Senate turns the heat up on the debates.
BETTY NGUYEN, CO-HOST: Live from B Control, I'm Betty Nguyen. Kyra Phillips is on assignment.

Also today, three fatal gator attacks in Florida. We're going to speak with a gator trapper who is on the job today. LIVE FROM starts right now.

HARRIS: A North Carolina grand jury met today. It could consider additional indictments in the Duke rape case. That would be in addition to the two players already charged with attacking a dancer.

Jason Carroll is live in Durham for us -- Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Tony, we have this developing news out of this. The grand jury has handed up an indictment against a third Duke lacrosse player. His name is David Evans. The charges are as following: first degree forcible rape, first degree sexual assault and first degree kidnapping. These are the same charges that the other two Duke lacrosse players are facing. That would be Collin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann.

Evans' attorney, Joe Cheshire, has been here at the courthouse all day, ever since very early this morning. And, in fact, CNN has learned that earlier this morning Mr. Cheshire tried to get a meeting with the district attorney, Michael Nifong but was told that the D.A. was "unavailable."

So this indictment just coming down from the grand jury just a few moments ago. As you know, on Friday, the district attorney in this particular case released the second round of DNA test results. Defense attorneys have been saying for quite some time over the weekend that those second round of results were inconclusive.

Even so, the report did name a third Duke lacrosse player. So perhaps the district attorney felt as though he had enough evidence at this time to present to the grand jury, the grand jury coming down and indicting a third Duke lacrosse player, David Evans.

He is a senior or was a senior. We are assuming at this point that he has just graduated. He is from Bethesda, Maryland. He was one of the captains on the Duke lacrosse team, and he now becomes the third player indicted for rape -- Tony.

HARRIS: And Jason, any public reaction to this indictment by David Evans' attorney?

CARROLL: Too soon. I mean, this has literally just happened.

HARRIS: Just happened, OK.

CARROLL: I have a copy of it right here. It's literally just come down just within a few moments. There is a mic stand set up here. We are told, though, that Joe Cheshire, which is Evans' attorney, he said that all the media should be at the jail at about 2 p.m. So we can only assume that perhaps at that point he'll have more to say. Perhaps even at that point his client, David Evans, will be turning himself in.

HARRIS: OK, Jason. Jason Carroll for us following the investigation in Durham, North Carolina. Jason appreciate it. Thank you -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Well, what about the impact of the new indictments be in the Duke rape investigation? CNN's senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, joins us by phone.

Jeffrey, you just heard it, as we did. Three different charges here: forcible rape, sexual assault and kidnapping, the same as the other players involved. Let me ask you this, this evidence stems from where, a fingernail found in a trash can?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, this is the first defendant apparently where there's any DNA evidence at all against him. It is somewhat tangential. It is not a 100 percent match, and it comes from a false fingernail that was found in the lacrosse house where the alleged rape took place. It is apparently the accuser's fingernail, and some DNA links this third suspect to the substance found on the fingernail.

It's hardly conclusive, but it is better than nothing for the prosecution, and the accuser said all along that there were three assailants, so presumably this now completes the charges in the case.

NGUYEN: Well, legally, let's look at this. Of course, the defense team is going to say, hey, this was found in a trash can. This is tainted evidence. There's no telling who picked up this fingernail, where it was found in the house. I mean, there are a lot of problems or at least are there a lot of problems with this evidence?

TOOBIN: Well, certainly, it's not conclusive evidence of guilt, as if you had, for example, you had a semen sample on the alleged victim, I mean, which would certainly, you know, establish sexual contact.

But, you know, it's important to remember most rape cases in this country are not made with DNA evidence. They're made on eyewitness testimony, the testimony of other witnesses, admissions by the defendants.

So, yes, this is not conclusive evidence, but that's not the whole case, and I think it's incumbent upon us all just to see how the evidence comes out in court.

NGUYEN: True, it's not the whole case, but the DNA evidence that has been found so far, so far defense says, test results, several of them, have shown nonconclusive as far as linking it to the players. So let me ask you this. As an attorney, how hard of a case is this, when you do have DNA evidence and you don't have it matching those accused?

TOOBIN: It makes it more difficult. You know, this case will be an interesting example of the "CSI" effect, which is something some lawyers are referring to now, that because we've seen so much on "CSI" and elsewhere about scientific evidence that when there is no scientific evidence, jurors get uncomfortable with the case.

But it's a long way from knowing what -- we're a long way from knowing what all the evidence is in this case. So yes, it would be better for the prosecution if there were DNA evidence. But that doesn't mean we're guaranteed an acquittal here, either.

NGUYEN: Hey, quickly, give us a little perspective here. If there is DNA evidence, does the jury usually sway toward that evidence or against it?

TOOBIN: Oh, very much toward it.

NGUYEN: Toward it, OK.

TOOBIN: DNA evidence is as close to conclusive evidence as we have in our legal system. And the problem for the prosecution is when they don't have it, things get more murky and complicated, but it doesn't mean there's always an acquittal either.

NGUYEN: All right. Jeffrey Toobin, our senior legal analyst, thank you for that perspective.

HARRIS: They would deploy to the border, but the real battle line is on Capitol Hill. They won't capture illegal immigrants, but they may pick up a few votes for the president's immigration reform plan.

You'll hear about that from the president himself in a speech to the nation this evening. Among the measures he's calling for, the temporary use of a few thousand National Guard troops to support the work of the Border Patrol.

More now from CNN's Kathleen Koch at the White House.

Kathleen, hi.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: hi, Tony. And White House press secretary Tony Snow says that this is crunch time for the president on this very important issue.

As you know, the Senate is scheduled to begin debate perhaps as soon as this afternoon on the immigration reform bill, thanks to a compromise that was crafted late last week. And it's a very divisive issue for many in the president's base, many conservatives adamantly opposed to any sort of guest worker program, anything that would put millions of illegal immigrants on a path to citizenship. They believe that that is tantamount to amnesty.

But in a speech in Washington today, deputy chief of staff Karl Rove said a guest worker program is a must.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL ROVE, DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: We will not be able to secure the border unless we have a temporary worker program. We want to have people patiently waiting in line with the prospect of being able to eventually go north and get a job than to have themselves throw themselves across the border time and time and time again. They get caught and returned, caught and returned, caught and returned. The only way to stop that is to reduce the pressure by having a way for people to legally come here to work and then return home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: And Mexican president Vicente Fox, however, is very concerned about the proposal Mr. Bush will lay out tonight to put somewhere under 10,000 National Guard troops in a supportive capacity along the southern U.S. Border. Fox called the president over the weekend. They spoke for roughly 30 minutes, Fox saying he was concerned about any efforts to militarize the border.

Also a lot of concern on Capitol Hill amongst lawmakers, who believe that the National Guard is already stretched thin with both Iraq and then the hurricane season right around the corner, Tony.

HARRIS: Kathleen Koch at the White House for us, Kathleen, thank you.

KOCH: You bet.

NGUYEN: Well, stretched, depleted, overextended, sentiments from Democratic and Republican senators about the state of the National Guard. But defenders of the new border mission plan for the Guard point out that only three percent of the total Guard troop strength would be involved here.

Now that brings us to our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre to lay all this out for us.

Hi, there, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Betty.

Well, you know the administration is in an interesting position in that they're trying to show they're doing something that's going to make a difference but not something that's so controversial that it's going to stress the National Guard or, as you said, militarize the border.

What the National Guard troops would be doing is essentially what several hundred troops are doing now, providing support to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agency so that they can carry out their duties more effectively: doing things like providing surveillance from helicopters and unmanned planes, providing communications, computer expertise, logistics and some kinds of routine transportation.

But here's what they're not going to be doing. They're not going to be apprehending illegal aliens. They will not be involved in the detention of illegal aliens. They will not be arresting anyone or transporting them back across the border. Those are clear law enforcement functions, and they will remain under civilian authorities.

And here's the other thing the Pentagon says about this plan, which, by the way, still doesn't have all the outlines drawn up. They're still working on the options.

They say it's a temporary measure to allow the Border Protection Agency to essentially recruit and train more people, because people say if the argument is that there aren't enough border control people, civilians, that they need military help, the real solution is to hire more civilians, not to provide the military on a long-term basis. So they stress that the support function will be temporary.

And here's the other thing: you probably won't even notice most of these troops. They'll be back behind the scenes, as I said, perhaps flying overhead at times, perhaps doing things to help the Border Patrol, but they're not going to be sitting at the border with guns pointed at illegal aliens -- Betty.

NGUYEN: So a support role and you probably won't even see them. All right. Jamie McIntyre, thank you.

Well, CNN does bring you extensive live coverage tonight, before, during and after President Bush's speech. Starting at 7 Eastern, a special edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM". That is followed by the president's address live at 8 p.m. Eastern. Then it is a special edition of "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" at 8:30. You don't want to miss that. Plus, at 9 Eastern, Larry King is live from a California border crossing, and finally, a special edition of "ANDERSON COOPER 360", live from Chicago.

HARRIS: Well, for decades he thumbed his nose at the west. His nation was labeled a terrorist state, off limits to Americans for a quarter of a century, but no longer. The U.S. is bringing Libya and its leader, Moammar Gadhafi, back into the fold.

Our national security correspondent, David Ensor, is here with more on why.

David, quite a turnaround. DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is, indeed, Tony. The U.S. is both establishing diplomatic relations and taking Libya off the list of nations supporting terrorism. It's a see change from the days back when Libya was held responsible for the downing of Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, and for other terrorist acts, as well.

State Department officials say not only has Moammar Gadhafi's Libya committed to paying large compensation to families of the victims of Pan Am 103 and started to pay large sums.

But Libya has also been helping U.S. intelligence track al Qaeda and other terrorist groups in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. And perhaps important most of all, it has given up its weapons of mass destruction and allowed U.S., British and other inspectors to verify that the equipment has been dismantled and removed. Much of it, in fact, has actually been brought to the United States.

Secretary of State Rice in a statement and other officials today in a news conference said Libya is a good example that Iran and North Korea should think about following.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAULA DESUTTER, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF RICE: When we talk about the Libya model a part of what we're talking about is that this a country that made a decision, a strategic decision to give up weapons of mass destruction and then didn't just assert that it had done so, or that it was entitled to the programs that they had but said, we're going to give up these programs and we're going to do so with international inspectors and U.S. and U.K. experts. They're available. They did so with tremendous transparency and with great rapidity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ENSOR: So it's a good example that ought to be followed, say U.S. officials. They say the decision is not about oil, but it will make it easier for American oil companies to do business in Libya, which, of course, is one of the world's biggest suppliers of so-called crude -- sweet crude oil, oil that produces more gasoline per barrel than heavy crude -- Tony.

HARRIS: Our national security correspondent David Ensor. David, thank you.

NGUYEN: We're going to go back to North Carolina when a news conference begins, a third Duke lacrosse player indicted just minutes ago in that rape investigation. We're going to hear from the player's attorney.

Who pays when illegal immigrants need medical services? That's the question. Well, here's the answer, you do, but a new law could change all of that. We're going to explain. That's ahead on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: We're in the midst of a great debate now about immigration, and what we must never forget as we go through this political debate is that we are enriched by immigration. Our economy is strengthened by immigrants. No other nation takes in as many immigrants and refugees as we do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Stretching far from the border and deep into the nation's heartland, the immigration battle seems to have no set boundaries. National correspondent Bob Franken is live from Hamilton, Ohio, where people are caught up in this debate.

What are they saying, Bob?

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting, because although we're in Hamilton, Ohio, the landmark we decided to feature is the county jail, because it is really part of a mind-set here among so many people and treatment of immigrants that is intentionally harsh.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN (voice-over): Butler County, Ohio, is not near any border except Indiana and Kentucky. Welcome to America's heartland, unless you're an undocumented immigrant; then the welcome mat has been rolled up.

Just ask Beatriz Martinez. She's been in the county jail for five months and says that federal agents caught her with false Social Security cards. She's Guatemalan, in the U.S. illegally for two years, most of it in Ohio, all of it in fear.

BEATRIZ MARTINEZ, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT: It's very hard because you worry all the time about immigration. When you hear about immigration, you say, oh, my god, maybe they come get me, you know. You never know.

FRANKEN: Outside the jail the sheriff has put up signs advertising that illegals end up here.

SHERIFF RICHARD K. JONES, BUTLER COUNTY, OHIO: You can't come here and just steal our benefits and steal our citizenship. You have to earn that.

FRANKEN: Butler County is more than 90 percent white, more than two-thirds Republican. It's the crucial base in this crucial election state, and party leaders are deeply concerned that, unless the president backs tough action on immigration, there could be dire consequences for the GOP.

MICHAEL A. FOX (R), BUTLER COUNTY COMMISSIONER: It doesn't do you any good to energize your base if your base has left you, if they either sit home or they're going to the other side in the vote. FRANKEN: Advocates for immigrants charge the political leaders are being demagogues.

LOUIS VALENCIA, ATTORNEY: You know, I think it's sad, because I don't believe that the politicians are necessarily sane or doing what they truly believe. I think they are -- it's all part of a political game for them.

FRANKEN: As for Beatriz Martinez, she's simply had enough.

MARTINEZ: I really want to go back to my country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: And, in fact, is hoping, she says, that she's deported within the month. Meanwhile, officials from President Bush on down are trying to come up with some way to finesse the issue and finesse the immigrants like her -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Bob, we're going to be hearing from the president a little bit later today, but what does the base think about what they've heard so far and what we've heard regarding the National Guard? Is that a good solution in their minds?

FRANKEN: Well, the people we've talked to, including state officials, are very worried. They believe that the National Guard is already overextended, that a function, it was mainly to be available for emergencies in the state. Of course, the Guard has been such a big part of the war in Iraq and the other -- other places around the globe. So they're worried that this is just going to be the straw, in effect, that broke the camel's back. Putting it another way the reaction that we've discerned here thus far is negative.

NGUYEN: All right, Bob Franken, thank you, live from Hamilton, Ohio.

Well, some 43 million people in America do not have medical insurance. It's estimated 25 percent of them are illegal immigrants. Most get free health care, but a new law aims to change all of that.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains in this report from "ANDERSON COOPER 360".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Araceli has been coming to this clinic since she first arrived to the United States seven years ago. It is here that she was first diagnosed as anemic, not having enough red blood cells. That was probably causing her dizzy spells. The doctors took good care of her and today she brought her daughters, Rachel and Ashley.

Here Araceli is a typical patient. Like 95 percent of the people who come here, she has no insurance and no citizenship. She crossed the Rio Grande River and found her way to Atlanta illegally. ARACELI, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT (through translator): I am undocumented. Life here is difficult, but it's thanks to these clinics that we can come to visit a doctor, because otherwise it's very costly for us to visit certain doctors.

GUPTA: As illegal immigrants, Araceli and her two young daughters don't qualify for Medicaid. They rely almost entirely on the generosity of the St. Joseph's Clinic. They do pay what they can, but it isn't much.

DR. WILLIAM REEVES, ST. JOSEPH'S MERCY CARE SERVICES: A lot of our patients are uninsured. So a combination of whatever resources they have and whatever we can offer.

GUPTA: Last year it cost around a million dollars to run this clinic. Less than a third came back in patient billing. It's a business model for bankruptcy, and this is just one example.

At least nine million people are uninsured and undocumented. Many of them don't pay taxes into the system that provides their health care. Still, in the United States, emergency treatment is available to all people, regardless of immigration status, regardless of insurance status, regardless of whether they can pay.

DIANE ROWLAND, KAISER FAMILY FOUNDATION: An immigrant coming in from passing out in a classroom or in a work situation may be stabilized in the E.R. However, if that individual needs chemotherapy or ongoing treatment, they are unlikely to be able to get that.

GUPTA: Things are about to get harder for people like Araceli. As things stand, now an illegal immigrant does not have to provide any documentation to qualify for Medicaid, but as of July 1 all immigrants will have to provide proof of citizenship, something Araceli may never be able to do.

Republican congressman Charlie Norwood of Georgia, a former dentist, co-sponsored the new provision. In a statement given to CNN today, he says, "Far too many of the current flood of illegal immigrants are swamping America's social safety net. These lawbreakers demand cradle-to-grave free comprehensive health care, gained through fraud, and paid for by American taxpayers."

The Congressional Budget Office estimates the law will save the government $220 million over five years and $735 million over ten years.

Tom Andrews, the president of St. Joseph's Clinic, think it's immoral for hospitals to turn their back on illegal immigrants.

TOM ANDREWS, PRESIDENT, ST. JOSEPH'S MERCY CARE SERVICES: These are people in our community. They are our community. We need to take care of them.

GUPTA: Other experts say the bill may simply be shortsighted and end up costing taxpayers even more. ROWLAND: When people delay or postpone care, they often end up sicker, and as a result end up in hospitals, where they may be more costly to care for than had we cared for their condition early on.

GUPTA: As for Araceli and her daughters, without this clinic it is not likely they could find the simple health care they really need, and that is one of those nagging issues at the center of the immigration debate.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Anderson Cooper is keeping them honest on "AC 360", weeknights at 10 p.m. Eastern.

HARRIS: No definitive link established, but a popular contact lens solution is getting the permanent boot anyway. The Bausch & Lomb company says it is issuing a worldwide recall on its Renu with MoistureLoc, effective immediately. The product has been linked to a series of rare fungal infections that can scar the cornea and cause blindness if left untreated. Man. Bausch & Lomb says something in the formula may be increasing the risk. Last year Bausch & Lomb sold $100 million worth of Renew with MoistureLoc.

The clock is ticking for five million Americans. They have until midnight tonight to sign up for a Medicare prescription plan. The government says it has operators standing by to help people make a choice. Forty-two million people are eligible for the service. About 37 million have signed up. Missing the deadline will mean higher premiums. Logon to Medicare.org or call 1-800-MEDICARE if you need help.

NGUYEN: Well, we are working on a developing story for you this hour. A third indictment in the Duke rape investigation, another lacrosse player accused. We're going to go live to Durham, North Carolina, for a news conference when it begins at the top of the hour.

The news keeps coming. We'll keep bringing it to you. More LIVE FROM next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: There's a live look there in Durham, North Carolina, where we are hoping to hear much more about this rape investigation at the top of the hour. Here's what we know so far.

A third lacrosse player at Duke University, has been indicted in this investigation. That person is senior David Evans. There's a picture of him right now. Charges include first degree sexual offense, first degree forcible rape, and first degree kidnapping, the same charges against the two other lacrosse players that have also been indicted in this investigation.

So we are waiting to hear the latest out of this. We'll bring it to you live right here on CNN when it happens at the top of the hour. In the meantime, it's the beginning of the end for the Enron trial. Susan Lisovicz is live from the New York Stock Exchange with the latest on this story.

Hi, Susan.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Betty.

And it comes about 4 1/2 years after Enron filed for corporate bankruptcy protection, the biggest bankruptcy protection at the time.

Closing arguments under way today in the trial of Enron founder Ken Lay and former CEO Jeffrey Skilling. Jeff Skilling faces 16 -- 28 charges of fraud, conspiracy, insider trading and lying to auditors for his role in Enron's massive collapse. Lay faces six counts of fraud and conspiracy. Each side will have six hours to summarize their cases.

The jury is expected to start deliberating on Wednesday. The eight women and four men on the jury have perfect attendance throughout the trial, which has lasted more than 14 weeks and featured 54 government and defense witnesses.

And I guess, Betty, it would underscore how big this case is in Houston. I mean, Enron was certainly one of the biggest employers if not the single biggest employer in that city.

NGUYEN: No doubt. A lot of people affected by this. And so it's all coming down to the wire now. How is the prosecution and defense going to try to sway the jurors?

LISOVICZ: Well, in some ways they both have to do the same thing. i This was a trial that was very long in coming, and one of the reasons why, it was so complicated. So legal experts say it's vital for both sides to tell a compelling coherent story.

For the prosecution it was that Lay and Skilling lied over and over again. Their case, a puzzle with many pieces that must be viewed as a whole.

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