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Third Player Indicted in Duke Rape Case; President Bush Prepares to Address Nation on Immigration Reform; Interview With White House Communications Director Nicolle Wallace

Aired May 15, 2006 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Lies and fabrication, that's what a member of the Duke University lacrosse team calls the charges against him. David Evans was indicted today, the third member of the team accused of raping a dancer at a team party.
CNN's Jason Carroll is following the story for us. He joins us live from Durham, North Carolina.

Wow, Jason. This news conference was quite powerful. David Evans spoke. In fact, he was joined by members of the Duke lacrosse team, who stood behind him in a show of support.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Something interesting about that, Betty. And you're right. It was incredible to watch.

When the first two players were actually indicted several weeks ago, this was a plan that defense attorneys actually had in mind. They thought, during the first two indictments that perhaps they should bring some of the players out in a show of force. But that plan was scrapped at the last minute.

But, in this particular situation, David Evans wanted to clear his name. He made a point of saying he was proud of his name. He was saying that he is absolutely innocent, saying that he has been fully cooperating with investigators ever since the beginning of this, also stating that he took a polygraph test, as CNN first told you, a test that he says that he passed.

He says that he even offered to take another polygraph test for the district attorney, Michael Nifong, but that offer was denied. He also took a moment to defend the other two players who were also indicted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID EVANS, DEFENDANT: I am innocent. Reade Seligmann is innocent. Collin Finnerty is innocent. Every member of the Duke University lacrosse team is innocent. You have all been told some fantastic lies.

And I look forward to watching them unravel in the weeks to come, as they already have in weeks past, and the truth will come out.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CARROLL: Again, an incredible moment there from David Evans, a senior from Bethesda, Maryland, one of the captains of the Duke lacrosse team, indicted now in connection with this rape case.

Evans' attorney, Joe Cheshire, also there at the press conference. He also spoke out, saying that the DNA evidence does not support an indictment, also saying that the first DNA test, of course, showed no match between the alleged victim and any of the players. He said the second round of DNA tests were inconclusive. He also said, all the way up until this morning, at about 9:30, he tried once again to meet with the district attorney, Michael Nifong, tried to show him, tried to tell him that he had evidence that could exonerate his client, David Evans.

But, once again, he says, the district attorney, Michael Nifong, refused to meet with him. At this point, the plan now is for David Evans to turn himself in and to post bond later today -- Betty.

NGUYEN: We are going to get much more on this. Thank you, Jason.

The question is, what will the impact of the new indictment be in the Duke rape case, especially as the latest player charged strongly asserts -- you saw it there -- his innocence and the innocence of his teammates. Take another listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVANS: And I passed that polygraph for the same reason that I will be acquitted of all these charges, because I have done nothing wrong, and I am telling the truth, and I have told truth from day one.

I would like to say thank you for my friends and family, my coach and members of the community who have stood by us through everything, from the initial weeks to now. Their support has given me the strength to come through this. But the thing that gives me the most strength is knowing that I have the truth behind me, and it will not phase me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins us live with a look at these latest developments.

Jeffrey, let's talk about that polygraph, because Mr. Evans says he took a polygraph administered by a former FBI agent. He passed it. He tried to take that information to the district attorney, wanted to do another polygraph for him to see. But he was denied. Is -- is that standard operating procedure? Why -- why would that be denied?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I wouldn't call it standard, but it is fairly common for defense attorneys to polygraph their own clients and then present it to the prosecutor as exculpatory or evidence that tends to show innocence.

Polygraphs are not admissible in any state in the union. So, I mean, it's -- it's an interesting atmospheric fact. It's probably somewhat helpful in the court of public opinion. But I wouldn't put too much stock in it. The prosecution can't use polygraphs. The defense can't use polygraphs. So, I mean, this is not real evidence that could be used in a courtroom.

NGUYEN: Another thing that we learned in that news conference was, David Evans -- in fact, his attorney said, the accusers said that she was 90 percent sure that, in the lineup, that David Evans was the guy involved in this.

She would have been 100 percent sure if he still had that mustache. Now, Joe Cheshire, David Evans' attorney, says, David Evans has never had a mustache. It sounds like they are laying out a lot of their case right there in the court of public opinion.

TOOBIN: That's right. And that's why it's important to keep in mind that we haven't heard from the government in -- in this. We haven't heard the government's theory of the case. We haven't heard certainly from the victim in terms of what she said, or alleged victim, what she said happened.

It's really important to keep an open mind, when you're -- when -- it's very unusual in this case. We have all the information coming from the defense side. The prosecution, as far as I can tell, has not been putting out any evidence at all. So, yes, that is not helpful to the government, if the accuser could only say 90 percent certainty that that's the -- that that's one of the people who attacked her. If she said he had a mustache, and he never had a mustache, that's a very good for the defense.

But we haven't heard the prosecution's side. And you got to keep that in mind.

NGUYEN: Well, and we heard today from David Evans himself that he has been trying to contact the district attorney. So has his attorney. But those requests have been denied.

Now, is that something that is par for the course when it comes to an investigation? The DA wants to look at his information on his own?

TOOBIN: Not -- not at all.

In fact, I -- I really think that's strains credulity that the -- that the prosecutor has not looked at the evidence put forward by the defense. Any responsible prosecutor would say: Sure, I would like to hear what you have to say. I would like to see your version of the facts, if only to prepare your case better.

I mean, it makes no sense to say no. As I listen to the press conference, they were a little vague, it seemed to me, on whether the prosecution refused to listen at all, or simply that the prosecution was not persuaded. The former would be outrageous.

The latter, well, that's what happens in most cases. The defense -- the defense simply fails to persuade the prosecutor not to bring charges. So, I'm not exactly sure what -- what the defense was claiming there.

NGUYEN: Yes. We're all wanting to hear from the district attorney, though, to see what he has to say about all this. But it appears that he is not going to have this play out in the media. So, we will just have to wait and watch.

Jeffrey Toobin...

TOOBIN: All in good time.

NGUYEN: Yes, absolutely.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

NGUYEN: As always, we appreciate your time.

TOOBIN: OK, Betty.

NGUYEN: Thanks for being with us.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Look, it doesn't happen often, and it's never happened on a matter of domestic policy, of course. Immigration, by definition, is not entirely a domestic matter.

And tonight's Oval Office speech by President Bush will make reference to the military. It starts about five hours from now. And the top Senate Democrat, for one, can't wait.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: We need to know what kind of immigration reform he supports. Does he believe, as his Republicans in the House do, that we should build a 700-mile fence on our border? He must make a statement in that regard.

Does he believe, as the Republican colleagues in the House do, that we should make all undocumented immigrants felons? Does the president believe, as his Republicans in the House believe, that we should make all those who feed, clothe and otherwise assisted undocumented immigrants felons also?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Well, we will find out.

In the meantime, CNN's Kathleen Koch sets the stage at the White House -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tony, it's a very important night for President Bush, who is trying very hard to win support for his controversial immigration reform plan.

He just returned from spending about two-and-a-half hours up on Capitol Hill, speaking with members of families of fallen law enforcement officers, those killed in the line of duty, a very emotional several hours for the president.

And he was also to come back here to the White House and spend some time today running through this roughly 20-minute speech that he will be making at 8:00 p.m. Eastern tonight, where he will call for the deployment of somewhere less than 10,000 National Guard troops to the U.S.-Mexican border.

Now, that plan sparked a call from the president of Mexico this weekend. Vicente Fox, who spent about a half-an-hour with the president on the phone expressing his concerns over militarizing that border -- also, a lot of concern expressed by members of Congress up on Capitol Hill, worried that the National Guard is already very much overextended, thousands and thousands of them already deployed in Iraq, doing very important work there, and then hurricane season approaching in less than a couple of weeks -- so, a lot of concern that this is just more than the Guard can bear.

But National Guard planners are right now talking with the governors of the border states, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, about how this plan would work. But, this morning, new White House Press Secretary Tony Snow would not answer reporters' questions about just who would pay for this plan and how long it would last, though the White House says it would, indeed, be temporary.

Now, this new get-tough measure that the president will be announcing tonight is, in part -- part of the White House strategy to try to allay the concern concerns of conservatives, very worried that so much of immigration reform has focused on this guest-worker program, a temporary-worker program, that they say puts too many illegal immigrants on the fast track to citizenship -- Tony.

HARRIS: CNN's Kathleen Koch for us at the White House -- Kathleen, thank you.

KOCH: Mmm-hmm. You bet.

HARRIS: And we will hear more from the White House when Nicolle Wallace joins me. She's the White House communications director. And that happens in just a couple of minutes here on LIVE FROM.

Well, critics of the president's border plan say the Guard is overworked and under stress. Defenders say, we are talking maybe, what, 3 percent of the Guard's total troop strength, and their footprint in Iraq has already been shrunk by half.

CNN's Jamie McIntyre is following the back and forth at the Pentagon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): The Pentagon has been asked to draw up options for the military to help beef up security along the U.S.-Mexico border.

And Pentagon sources tell CNN, one idea under consideration is to have the federal government pick up the tab for several thousand additional National Guard troops, to be activated in the border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California.

Under that option, the Guard troops would remain under the control of state governors, as they were during Hurricane Katrina, and would be limited to a supporting role, providing logistics, intelligence and surveillance help to civilian authorities.

That's already being done on a small scale by several hundred Guard troops. But the numbers could jump to several thousand.

FRANK GAFFNEY, FOUNDER & PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR SECURITY POLICY: This is a job that we can train our forces to perform. We can utilize the panoply of sensors and detection devices and -- and monitoring equipment and military hardware to ensure that we do not continue to be subjected to what amounts to an onslaught every single day.

MCINTYRE: Still, don't expect to see U.S. troops on the front lines patrolling the border, officials say. But, with additional helicopters, unmanned spy planes, and sophisticated computers and communications, the Guard can be what the Pentagon calls a force multiplier for the overburdened U.S. Border Patrol and local law enforcement.

Active-duty U.S. troops are barred from domestic law enforcement by a Civil War-era law known as Posse Comitatus. But National Guard troops under state control can perform some law enforcement functions, such as crowd control.

Still, the Pentagon is anxious to avoid the sort of controversy that erupted back in 1997, when a U.S. Marine supporting counter-drug agents shot and killed a goat herder along the Mexican border.

(on camera): The Pentagon says, in theory, it could sustain of force of up to 10,000 Guard troops along the Mexican border without affecting its other operations.

But officials say it's way too early to say how many troops might be deployed. And they insist, any additional military assistance will be temporary, until the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agency can hire additional permanent personnel.

Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: LIVE FROM takes you to the border at the bottom of the hour. We will hear about the struggle illegal immigrants and American citizens face in El Paso.

The news keeps coming. We will keep bringing it to you -- more LIVE FROM next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: President Bush won't be taking questions tonight about his immigration ambitions, but Nicolle Wallace will field a few right now. She's the White House communications director. And she joins us from work.

Nicolle, good to talk to you.

(LAUGHTER)

NICOLLE WALLACE, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Nice to be here.

HARRIS: You know, it occurs to me at this very moment that the president isn't only going to be talking about moving National Guard personnel down to the southern border. Give us a sense of -- of the broader narrative, the story he wants to communicate about immigration.

WALLACE: Oh, I'm so glad you asked it that way.

I think it's really important that people hear from the president tonight that we can accomplish two goals that I think everyone in this country can rally behind. And that is to enforce our laws and be a lawful society, as well as a welcoming one. And that really gets at the character of our country.

So, I think, throughout, he will strike a tone that is hopefully one that people can follow and -- and be encouraged and excited about. We can be tough on the border, and we can beef up border security with manpower and technology and additional resources that you guys have been talking about much of the day.

HARRIS: Yes.

WALLACE: But we also need to conduct this debate in a civil tone that really honors the character of our country.

HARRIS: You know, but there is concern -- you can't deny that, Nicolle -- that -- that there is concern about moving National Guard personnel to the border. And -- and let me ask you. Can you give us more information on this call between the president and Mexico's president, Vicente Fox?

WALLACE: Well, President Fox and President Bush are -- are friends. And they have collaborated on border security for more than five years.

So, I think it was really part of an ongoing dialogue that the two have had. And I think it's important for your viewers, and I know it was important for President Fox, to understand that the National Guard is really going to be plugged in, or relied upon, in a transitional period, as an acknowledgement that, in the short term, we need more manpower on the border.

But, in the long term, the answer is really to dramatically increase our border patrols. And that's what we will hear from the president tonight. But I think the president welcomed the opportunity to assure his friend, President Fox...

HARRIS: Yes. WALLACE: ... that we're not going to militarize the border.

HARRIS: Listen to Republican Chuck Hagel, and let me have you respond to this.

WALLACE: Mmm-hmm. Sure.

HARRIS: He's concerned that the National Guard is just, you know, stressed out, overstretched. Take a listen to this, and let me get your response.

WALLACE: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: I am concerned that we have so overstretched our military, overstretched especially our National Guard, that I'm not sure what capacity they would have. That's not the role of the National Guard. If there's an immediate national emergency, that's the role of the National Guard. But I want to see what the president has to say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Nicolle, what do you think?

WALLACE: Well, we couldn't agree with him more.

The National Guard will not be tapped, in any way whatsoever, that detracts from their mission in the war on terror or their ability to respond to natural disasters, hurricanes or -- or flooding.

So, I think, when he's briefed up on the plan, it will be something that I would hope he would be comfortable with.

HARRIS: Yes, let's talk about the plan.

We have got a full-screen here...

WALLACE: OK.

HARRIS: ... Bush immigration plan. Let's talk about the National Guard component, as we know it now. And, if there's more to know, you can share it with us.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: No military role in law enforcement, no military role in arresting illegal immigrants, no military role in detention, no military role in transportation.

What is the National Guard, in fact, going to be doing, more than pushing paper around?

(LAUGHTER) WALLACE: Well, I have been getting briefed up on what exactly they do down there myself. And you would be amazed at the -- for example, the construction that is necessary.

When you talk about virtual fences or high-tech detectors or motion detectors, all these new and more sophisticated and technology- centered solutions for border security require a lot of construction and a lot of technical expertise and savvy.

And there's also a need, as we all know, for more manpower on the border.

And, look, the president did a lot of listening before we arrived at this moment, where we asked for time from all the networks and yours to speak directly to the American people.

HARRIS: Mmm-hmm.

WALLACE: And something he heard and -- and something that -- that I'm not sure if you guys have talked about too much today, is that the National Guard is already...

HARRIS: Yes. Yes.

WALLACE: ... serving on the border, and -- and doing some real specific missions there.

So, this is, granted, an expansion of some things they are already doing, but is a common sense step to take while we're in this transition to get manpower down to the border immediately to help secure that border, and then to, over time...

HARRIS: Yes.

WALLACE: ... bring online more Border Patrol agents.

HARRIS: And -- and, finally, Nicolle, any concern in the White House that this move will make desperate people more desperate?

WALLACE: Well, I don't know who you're talking about.

But President Bush welcomes the opportunity to lead on an issue that is central to so many people's thoughts and concerns and desires of -- of what they want their leaders in Washington to be working on, a problem they would like to see solved.

HARRIS: No, no, no, no, no. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I could have phrased it a little better, that -- that, when I talk about desperate people, I am talking about Mexicans who -- who are thinking about crossing this border, that it might make those folks who are desperate to flee their economic circumstances in Mexico even more desperate to -- to get here, and in a hurry, at the thought that National Guard troops are going to be on the border.

WALLACE: Well, I -- I think the idea is to encourage them to participate in the temporary-worker program, which would be a legal pathway for them to work temporarily in this country and to come here and do a job.

And, then, the very nature of a temporary-worker program is that they then go back. So, I think we have also created opportunity for people from other countries to apply, to come here and -- and do jobs on a temporary basis in the legal fashion. And we hope that that will appeal to them.

HARRIS: Nicolle, can't wait for the speech tonight.

You know...

WALLACE: Thank you.

HARRIS: ... Lou Dobbs and Wolf Blitzer will be in "THE SITUATION ROOM," watching closely. You know that.

WALLACE: Great. Great.

HARRIS: OK.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: Nicolle Wallace, the White House communications director -- thank you.

WALLACE: Thanks for having me.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: And there you see it. There's the lineup tonight, "THE SITUATION ROOM," 7:00 p.m. Eastern, immigration reform, the speech from the president at 8:00, and then a special edition with "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT," 8:30 Eastern time, after the president's speech -- all here, all on CNN, followed by a live edition of "LARRY KING LIVE" at the border, and "ANDERSON COOPER 360," live from Chicago, all tonight here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: All right. You know, it's a Monday.

HARRIS: Yes.

NGUYEN: That means another week of stress for office workers. If you are burned out on the job, you're not alone. Oh, no.

Susan Lisovicz, she is not burned out, though.

(LAUGHTER)

NGUYEN: She is live from the New York Stock Exchange with more on this story.

(LAUGHTER)

NGUYEN: At least, you're not burned out yet. It's just Monday, right?

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm the poster child...

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

NGUYEN: Yes, you know, here is a secret. Me, too.

(LAUGHTER)

LISOVICZ: I think we can all relate to this story, Betty.

NGUYEN: Oh, yes.

LISOVICZ: More than three-quarters of workers say they feel job burnout. And more than half feel they are under a great deal of stress -- this according to a new survey from careerbuilder.com.

The biggest cause of office stress, believe it or not, co- workers, as well as unrealistic workloads, tight deadlines, last- minute projects. And meddling bosses also make the list. This isn't just a problem for workers. Employers should take note as well. Stress on the job can lower morale and cause health problems. And it's the employer that picks up the tab, remember, in higher insurance costs and lost productivity.

So much nicer when everybody is happy, right, Betty?

NGUYEN: Oh, so much. Are you saying that I can blame Tony for a lot of my on-the-job stress?

(CROSSTALK)

LISOVICZ: No.

NGUYEN: Is that what you're saying, huh?

LISOVICZ: No, that's not the kind of co-worker we are talking about, Betty.

NGUYEN: Oh, it's not?

(LAUGHTER)

NGUYEN: Have you had to work with him on a daily basis? Let me tell you, Susan...

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: Outrageous.

LISOVICZ: That's a big -- that's a big gulf between the two of you.

(LAUGHTER) (CROSSTALK)

NGUYEN: All right, Susan, thank you so much. We will be checking in with you.

LISOVICZ: You're welcome.

NGUYEN: Got a lot to tell you about still, though. I know it's a Monday. It has been a busy Monday for us.

Want to show you some video now of David Evans. He's the third Duke University lacrosse player who was indicted today. In fact, we're going to hear from him right after this break. So, stay tuned for that -- more LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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