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Governors Disagree on Use of National Guard at Border; Floridians On Edge After Three Fatal Gator Attacks
Aired May 16, 2006 - 15:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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LINDA STOUFFER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jim Guyser (ph) is not your ordinary firefighter. He's 75 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go. We're going to the scene of a medical run. Somebody has fallen. Want to see if we can help them.
STOUFFER: The Evansville, Indiana, resident retired in 1995 and a year later he got into firefighting by accident.
JIM GUYSER: They were talking about making a taxing district for the fire department so that they could raise funds and I came to the meeting and they said well come on up and see what it is like for training tonight. From there on I have been hooked. The most exciting part of being a fireman is going into a fire and I've only done that once.
STOUFFER: His doctor would rather he didn't go into burning buildings and Guyser says he'll respect the limitations that age brings. He's won several awards for his work at the German(ph) Township Fire Department. In addition to going on calls he's the maintenance coordinator for the fire station and runs its Web site.
GUYSER: The other thing like is the kids when we do the fire prevention program at the schools. It's unbelievable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think any time you see somebody of Jim's age doing what he does the way he goes about it it's an inspiration.
GUYSER: The fire department is very close family. It is something that the community needs and I feel I'm helping out.
STOUFFER: Linda Stouffer. CNN.
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KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Do you have a favorite dream? Any recurring dreams? Do you ever wonder what they mean. Dr. Sanjay Gupta gets wired up as part of a study to help dreams develop.
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SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: What's in a dream? A memory, a movie, a solution, a picture? ROBERT STICKGOLD, BETH ISRAEL DEACONESS MEDICAL CENTER: The dreaming process is a process of memory integration, where different memories are brought together; and how well they fit or don't fit, is examined by the brain.
GUPTA: Bob Stickgold is a biochemist and a dream researcher at Harvard's Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. Dreams, he says, are efforts to fit memories together.
While most of our dreams occur in the REM phase of sleep, about 25 percent of our dreams occur in non-REM sleep, just after you drift off. And it's in this hypnogotic stage of sleep where Stickgold's current study is attempting to determine how the brain forms dreams...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Start the clock.
GUPTA: ... with the help of a video game. I spend three 45- minute sessions on this virtual alpine skier, navigating through winding courses and obstacles.
That night, they wire me up with electrodes around my head, including a specially wired bandanna to measure my brain waves during various stages of sleep.
Each time I doze off into the first stages of sleep, a computer wakes me up and asks me to give dream reports.
(on camera): And then there were some fields that looked like wheat, and I was sort of flying over the fields.
STICKGOLD: So here's one of those places where you see all the problems of dreams, because I can turn to you and say, Sanjay, wheat fields?
GUPTA: So were those wheat fields I was flying over really ski slopes? Who is to say, but Stickgold says 85 percent of the study subjects report at least once that they were skiing.
STICKGOLD: The whole point of this research is to help us figure out what the brain uses as its rules for constructing dreams.
GUPTA: Research that is still up for interpretation. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.
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PHILLIPS: Well you can tune into Dr. Sanjay Gupta's dream special this weekend, that's Sunday night 10:00 eastern right here on CNN. LIVE FROM is back after a quick break.
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PHILLIPS: They're all on the same side of the border but on different sides of the issue -- that being immigration and they being the U.S. governors most affected by the president's immigration plans. The governors of Texas and Arizona, one from each party, generally support the Bush plans. The governors of California and New Mexico generally don't.
Here is New Mexico's Bill Richardson.
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GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: I wish they consulted with us because what I would have said is I would have said accelerate the number of border patrol agents you promised us. New Mexico was promised 265 new border agents from the last appropriations bill. Only a handful have arrived. My preference would have been to dramatically increase the number of border patrol agents. Our guardsmen, they are tired, border protection is not one of their responsibilities.
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PHILLIPS: Texas Governor Rick Perry joined me earlier today on LIVE FROM.
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GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: This is a president who was the governor of the state of Texas for better than four and a half, five years. So this wasn't made on the fly. And quite frankly Governor Richardson was one of the first to declare a state of emergency along the border and now he seems to be crawfishing on the issue of whether or not National Guard troops need to be placed on the border.
The fact is we need to be focused on how we can positively find the answers to these issues. I think this is a step in the right direction.
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PHILLIPS: All eyes now are on the U.S. Senate, where a measure patterned on the White House plan is expected to pass and then face a hardline border enforcement bill from the House.
Ohio is a long way from the Mexican border, but it's smack dab in the middle of the immigration debate as CNN's Bob Franken discovered around a TV in Butler county.
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GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I will make it clear where I stand.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are among those who party leaders mean when they talk about the Republican base. They were invited to the home of Butler County, Ohio Commissioner Michael Fox, along with some reporters, to watch and see if President Bush could soothe the anger here over how he's handled immigration.
BUSH: I've asked for a few minutes of your time to discuss a matter of national importance -- the reform of America's immigration system.
FRANKEN: The question was whether the president's speech was a step in the right direction. The most common answer? Maybe.
ARNOLD ENGEL, HAMILTON, OHIO RESIDENT: I liked the speech, but as it is right now, it's nothing but talk.
HALL THOMPSON, HAMILTON, OHIO RESIDENT: I thought it was a pretty good speech. I think it's a beginning. I don't think it's, by any means, the end.
HEATHER MCINTYRE, HAMILTON, OHIO RESIDENT: It was a nice step, but we need to see some real action. The words are nice. I'd like to see some -- some real action before I believe this.
FRANKEN: The most prominent hardliner in the county on immigration is the sheriff, Richard Jones. But he was almost gushing about the speech. Almost.
SHERIFF RICHARD JONES, BUTLER COUNTY, OHIO: I'll tell you who he reminded me of tonight. He reminded me of Ronald Reagan. Now I want to see the beef.
FRANKEN: And as for the host for this president's speech watch, County Commissioner Fox was one of the most disappointed.
MICHAEL FOX, BUTLER COUNTY COMMISSIONER: The president is a good man but he doesn't have a good plan. And I think the weakness is the border security and the enforcement piece. For my county, it didn't do anything.
FRANKEN (on camera): As Ohio goes, they say, so goes the election. And how this state goes is determined on what the Republicans do here. That could depend on how immigration is handled.
Bob Franken, CNN, Hamilton, Ohio.
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PHILLIPS: It's no job for the faint-hearted, and after three fatal gator attacks in Florida, anyone who can do it is in high demand. Up next on LIVE FROM, we're going to talk with this guy, a professional alligator trapper, about recent attacks and how people can avoid a fatal gator encounter.
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PHILLIPS: Final word or two from those defending Enron's former chiefs. Attorneys for Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling are presenting their closing arguments today; then it's up to the jury.
Reporter Len Cannon with our affiliate KHOU in Houston has the latest now from the courthouse.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LEN CANNON, KHOU REPORTER (voice-over): It was the usual suspects arriving at court this morning. Ken Lay's lawyer, Mike Ramsey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What can we expect today?
MIKE RAMSEY, ATTORNEY FOR KEN LAY: Oh, you can expect some loud talking and arm waving.
CANNON: Enron founder Ken Lay himself, always upbeat.
KEN LAY, ENRON FOUNDER: It's going to be the truth, unlike some of the arguments yesterday.
CANNON: Ex-CEO Jeff Skilling and his lawyer, Daniel Petrocelli.
DANIEL PETROCELLI, ATTORNEY FOR JEFF SKILLING: The prosecutor said yesterday to expect a lot of theatrics today. Is that true?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. What's s wrong with theatrics?
CANNON: And theatrics is what he delivered. In his first hour before jurors, Petrocelli called Jeff Skilling the most investigated man on the planet, saying prosecutors turned Enron upside down, searching records, memos and documents. "And what did they find?" he asked the jury. "What evidence have you seen that Jeff Skilling did anything wrong? Zero."
He said Enron went bankrupt, but bankruptcy is not a crime. He said there were failures, but failure isn't a crime. He claims prosecutors created evidence. And for all the witnesses, he called them pawns in the government's game, intimidated into testifying to save their own skins. The government, he said, had their eye on the prize and the prize is Jeff Skilling and Ken Lay.
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PHILLIPS: Once again that was Len Cannon with our affiliate there in Houston, KHOU. And after three months of testimony, jurors are expected to get the federal fraud case tomorrow.
Residents on the edge after three fatal gator attacks in Florida. I'm going to speak with the professional gator trapper you right here you see straight ahead. He's quite a busy man these days.
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PHILLIPS: Floridians are on edge after three deadly alligator attacks. One of the alligators was caught just last night near where the body of a woman was found over the weekend. Wildlife officials say there's no pattern or common element to the attacks, which have taken place in different parts of the state. Trappers who snagged this gator say that many of the animals aren't shy about approaching humans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROGER YOUNG, WILDLIFE OFFICER: The alligator is 8'5" long. You know, typically you would consider an alligator involved in an incident like this probably -- possibly be bigger than that. This alligator is pretty good size, it's a pretty thick alligator. It was caught from the lakeside.
They did some alligator simulation calls and the alligator came right over. There are some signals that you can use lakeside to attract animals. And that's one of the things that we use as FWC officers. You know, often times, when we show up to the scene where there might be an aggressive alligator, by doing certain things on the side of the water to attract attention to an alligator, if an alligator has lost his fear of humans, he will come over to the commotion or whatever might attract the alligator. And that's what was done in this case.
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PHILLIPS: Before the latest attacks, only 17 deaths have been blamed on alligators in Florida in nearly 60 years.
Tough, wily and deadly, the alligator is one of the nature's -- or one of nature's most perfect predators and has spent plenty of honing its lethal skills. Here's a few facts.
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BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The name alligator comes from Spanish for lizard, el legarto. Its a cold-blooded reptile whose ancestors may have shown up during the Triassic Era, before the dinosaurs. They've survived. Nowadays there are about 23 species of alligators and crocodiles but the one in the news is the American Alligator.
It can grow up to 19 feet and weigh as much as a thousand pounds. It's mouth holds 80 teeth and an endless supply of replacements and, by way of comparison, when you crunch down on a meal, you're using 120 pounds of pressure per square inch. A dog's bite, 310 pounds. A great white shark exerts 600 pounds, the alligator more than quadruple that jaw power, up to 2500 pounds of pressure.
Spring is prime feeding and breeding time for alligators. Think you can outrun one? Well, think again. On land with their short stubby legs they can still sprint short distances at upwards of 30 miles an hour, but as they lurk in murky water they're capable of lunging five feet in the direction of prey.
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PHILLIPS: Coming up in just a minute we're going to talk with Todd Hardwick, he's a licensed alligator trapper in Florida. You've probably seen him a number of times on CNN trapping those gators.
First let's check in with Wolf Blitzer standing by in "THE SITUATION ROOM." Hi, Wolf. WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Kyra. Happening now, new video that 9/11 attack on the Pentagon. Will finally put to rest those conspiracy theories? We're taking a closer look.
Also, immigration divide. Conservatives and a chilly reception to parts of the president's plan. The Attorney General of the United States Alberto Gonzalez he's here live in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
Also, emotions running very high. The new White House press secretary gets choked up on his first day. We'll tell you what happened at Tony Snow.
A CNN exclusive. Nuclear Iran. We'll take you to Tehran where the foreign minister says Iran's uranium enrichment program is now irreversible. All that coming up, Kyra, right at the top of the hour.
PHILLIPS: Wolf, thanks. We'll be back with gator trapper Todd Hardwick right after a quick break.
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PHILLIPS: Once endangered, the Florida gator is now plentiful but there's a continued boom in the human population. As the habitats collide it adds up to bad news. No one knows more than that than Todd Hardwick, a licensed alligator trapper in Florida. He joins me now live from North Miami. Todd, great to see you again. No doubt you're a busy man lately.
TODD HARDWICK, ALLIGATOR TRAPPER: I think I'm the most busiest guy in town. People want to know if they are going to be at their gator now. Everybody want theirs gator caught first on the list. It's really crazy what is going on down here.
PHILLIPS: I want to know because I didn't have a chance to ask you this. Have you been involved in the capture of any of these gators recently. Are you involved in the search at Lake George? Have you gotten involved in any of the three case.
HARDWICK: Unfortunately I was involved in the very first alligator incident. I was not there the day it was captured, but I was there on earlier days and it was very traumatizing as an alligator trapper. We hate to see that type of thing. It was horrific.
PHILLIPS: Which case was that, Todd?
HARDWICK: The very first incident involving the jogger.
PHILLIPS: That was the 28 year old Suarez Jimenez. We're actually looking at it -- we're looking at it right now I'm being told. And tell me, a lot of people were confused. Do you think she was anywhere near the water or was she a lot of people said it's hard to believe she was actually running down the canal and the gator jumped up on her? What do you think is a likely scenario. Now people are completely freaked out to go down on that canal.
HARDWICK: Unfortunately there is no eyewitness so we'll never really know what happened, but it's my opinion that she was sitting down and was grabbed in the thigh area by the alligator and was pulled into the water at that point and most likely tried to defend herself but it's one of those things we'll really never know the whole story.
I clearly and fully believe she was sitting down at the time of the attack.
PHILLIPS: And so it's not realistic that if someone is jogging down the canal a gator like this one would actually come up from the water and grab them in motion?
HARDWICK: Most likely not. Certainly though you could trip over a gator on a jogging path at night. So you should always be cautious. I think that's the biggest lesson here in Florida. We are alligator country. We have over a million of them and you should always be aware of that and never drop your guard. These are predatory reptiles.
PHILLIPS: Now what do you know about the gator attack in Lake George? I know that the hunt is still on for that gator. Any steps closer? Do you know how they are searching for the gator?
HARDWICK: I know there's a tremendous effort as there is in all of these. But again there was no witness there. So a lot of this will always be speculation. The biggest impact right now is a lot of people in Florida are very nervous about the alligator. He used to be one of the most sought after animals to see. Now people are really scared and the calls for alligator removal are going through the roof.
PHILLIPS: There are also a lot of myths about what do you do if an alligator charges you? What do you do if you come face to face with a gator?
HARDWICK: First of all want to avoid an up close encounter. You always want to avoid walking near heavy vegetation near the water. You do not want to swim at night. You don't want to have your dogs in the water with you because that may draw an alligator in, looking to grab the dog. The dog jumps out of the way leaving you there.
So a lot of real simple common sense things to do but the biggest thing is that there are alligators in Florida. They are found in every body of fresh water. So avoiding them isn't really possible but having some common sense and being aware that they are here. That they share the state with us. That will take you a long way.
PHILLIPS: Todd Hardwick. I still can't believe you do what you do but you're pretty awesome at it. We're going to keep following you. Let us know indeed what happens there at Lake George. All right?
HARDWICK: Well, you have a good afternoon. And I'm going to get right back to work.
PHILLIPS: You always do. You never stop.
Let's get straight to Ali Velshi with "The Closing Bell." ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Not too much of a story but I'm going to take this market out with a little bit of a loss on both the Nasdaq and the Dow. Good to see you. I will see you tomorrow. The Dow is ending about ten points lower. About 11,419. We're still in earnings and Wal-Mart reported its first quarter.
Over on the Nasdaq, we're looking at a drop of about 11 points there to 2,227. That's it for me. Take it over to Wolf Blitzer.
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