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Officials Say Zarqawi Initially Survived Blast; World Reacts to Zarqawi's Death; Inside Look at Intelligence that Sealed Terrorist's Fate; Parents of Detained Marines Complain of Treatment

Aired June 09, 2006 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
Coming up, did he outlast the blast? Word today terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi initially survived the U.S. bombing. Hear about his final moments of life.

And my exclusive interview with the man who tracked down the most wanted terrorist in Iraq.

Plus, his son's a Marine, but is he a murderer, too? CNN speaks to the father of a Marine who could be charged with a war crime.

Two 500-pound bombs, buildings demolished, six bodies found in the rubble. Incredibly, we now know the one person, the main target, initially survived. Here is how U.S. Major General Bill Caldwell in Baghdad explained it to reporters at the Pentagon and responded to our own CNN's Barbara Starr.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAJ. GEN. BILL CALDWELL, MULTINATIONAL FORCE, IRAQ: Zarqawi, in fact, did survive the air strike. The report specifically states that nobody else did survive, though, from what they know.

The first people on the scene were the Iraqi police. They had found him and put him into some kind of gurney stretcher kind of thing. And then American coalition forces arrived immediately thereafter on site. They immediately went to the person in the stretcher, were able to start identify him by some distinguishing marks on his body. They had some kind of visual facial recognition.

According to the person on the ground, Zarqawi attempted to sort of turn away off the stretcher. They -- everybody resecured him back onto the stretcher, but he died almost immediate thereafter from the wounds he had received from this air strike.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: To clarify, then, you can confirm that U.S. troops themselves saw and can confirm to you that Zarqawi was alive. That is confirmed by U.S. troops on the ground. And his attempt to turn away, would you describe that as an attempt event in state he was in to escape at that point? And why did he -- was he strong enough for anyone to have to resecure him?

CALDWELL: Again, I'm reading the report. I did not talk specifically to any uniform person. But according to the report, we did, in fact, see him alive. There was some kind of movement he had on the stretcher, and he died shortly thereafter. But, yes, it was confirmed by other, than the Iraqi police, that he was alive initially.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Barbara Starr joins us now live from our Washington bureau.

So Barbara, do we know if there were any attempts to save his life while he was on that stretcher?

STARR: Well, you know, Kyra, General Caldwell said that U.S. forces did try to render some very initial medical assistance. But apparently, Zarqawi did die within a very short time, a few minutes perhaps of all of this happening.

One of the reasons we wanted to ask the question about whether U.S. troops had eyes on him alive, of course, is because the question now certainly will be raised about whether he died actually of the injuries and wounds from the blast of the two 500-pound bombs. Or whether Iraqi police, who were first on the scene before U.S. troops, might have actually shot him. That question came up later at the briefing.

General Caldwell saying that some initial autopsy work has been done, and they have determined that there was no gunshot wound. That they do believe, in fact, he died from those injuries from those two 500-pound bombs.

But Kyra, the obvious question that we're all asking. When you're on the receiving end of 1,000 pounds of U.S. Air Force bombs, how -- you know, no matter what injuries to the rest of your body, how is it that his face remains so intact?

General Caldwell saying there was no digital altering of the photographs. Nothing done cosmetically to his face other than to wipe the blood and debris off of him, but now it really does become a pretty interesting puzzle.

PHILLIPS: And Barbara, we're also hearing more about how Iraqi intelligence worked with American Special Forces on tracking down Zarqawi.

STARR: That story probably still remains to be fully pieced together. But what it does appear to be is that perhaps it was the Jordanian government or Jordanian sources that provided a key piece of information over the last many weeks.

And that was that Zarqawi would be with this man, now identified as his spiritual adviser, Sheikh Abd al-Rahman. And so Special Forces started tracking this man, Rahman, knowing that where they found him, they would be most likely to find Zarqawi.

And it does appear it was earlier this week when they were able to track him and get to this house north of Baquba, where they then launched this air strike, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Barbara, we're able to bring a little more to the plate now. Stay with us. I want you to be able to hear this. We are talking about American Special Forces working with Iraqi intelligence.

We are getting this CNN exclusive interview now, thanks to our Baghdad bureau chief, Cal Perry, who worked this for us. The man who actually gathered intelligence that led to the takedown of Zarqawi is talking about it for the very first time and you'll only hear it right here on LIVE FROM.

Iraqi Colonel Dhya Tamimi worked side by side with U.S. Special Forces and tracked down the most wanted terrorist in Iraq. Colonel Tamimi joins me on the phone now from Iraq.

Colonel, this is a huge accomplishment for you and Iraqi intelligence?

COL. DHYA TAMIMI, IRAQI ARMY: Yes. And (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

PHILLIPS: You'll have to forgive me, Colonel. We're having a hard time hearing you on that satellite phone. I'll tell you what. We're going to try to get a better connection with you, because we don't want to be able to lose what you want to say. We want to talk about how you gathered the intelligence that led to Zarqawi. We're going to work on a better connection. If you could do that with us, sir, we'll get right back to you.

Meanwhile, we want to talk about the reward that has been brought up. Do you remember that? The U.S. offered a $25 million bounty for al-Zarqawi, dead or alive. The question is, will it be paid? And if so, who gets it?

Well, no government agency has claimed it. An intelligence agency credit an al Qaeda insider with leading them to al Qaeda's spiritual guru, who died in the bombing with al Zarqawi. Twenty five million dollars is also being offered for the world's most wanted terrorist, Osama bin Laden.

Now, al-Zarqawi's death had an impact around world, but nowhere more than where it happened in Iraq.

CNN's John Vause is in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It has been quiet in Baghdad today. Also in the northern city of Baquba, mostly because of a ban on traffic. The reason for that ban: in the past, Zarqawi has sent his suicide bombers into Shiite mosques, especially on a Friday, to cause maximum bloodshed.

The Iraqi government has been bracing for retaliation after the death of the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq.

The question now, whoever takes over al Qaeda in Iraq, whoever that may be, will they continue with the brutal tactics carried out by Zarqawi? The beheadings, the kidnappings, the targeting of Iraqi civilians? Tactics, which according to some assessments, cost Zarqawi support in recent months.

The concern is that al Qaeda in Iraq will now step up attacks on coalition forces to try to win back some of that support. But what most are certain, Zarqawi's death does not meantime violence will end anytime soon.

ZALMAY KHALILZAD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: Zarqawi was a charismatic and effective leader of the terrorist. He was brutal. He had a network of relationships that brought money. He got recruits into the organization. But I believe with his death, while the organization suffered a setback, I do not believe that by itself will end terror and violence.

VAUSE: But what many are hoping from the U.S. administration, the Iraqi prime minister, and ordinary Iraqis themselves, that this new government here can make the most of this opportunity. And at least make a start on ending the violence.

John Vause, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And another al Qaeda higher-up is a little late in praising al Zarqawi. The man believed to be Osama bin Laden's right- hand man appears on a video clip that aired today on Al Jazeera.

Ayman al-Zawahiri's message is fairly current. He mentions ongoing issues among the expected anti-Israel, anti-American, anti- U.N. tirades, but he speaks about Zarqawi in the present tense.

Now I'm being told we have a much better connection with Colonel Dhya Tamimi. He is with the Iraqi military. He is the one that helped gather intelligence with regard to where Zarqawi was located in Iraq. He worked with American Special Forces.

Colonel, I hope we have a better connection now. Once again, this is a huge accomplishment for Iraqi intelligence and for you, isn't it?

TAMIMI: Of course. U.S. forces captured many bad guys. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Zarqawi and the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Baquba (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

PHILLIPS: So you actually worked with American forces to monitor the cell phones of Zarqawi and his associates, is that correct?

TAMIMI: That is correct. I think Special Forces used technology captured by cell phone. (ph)

PHILLIPS: So he was really captured by cell phone records?

TAMIMI: Yes. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) especially (UNINTELLIGIBLE) see him and (UNINTELLIGIBLE). So they call about where he go like this. And we capture many bad guys of Zarqawi that they have mobile. That we give this the Special Forces. The Special Forces they used this to follow him wherever he go. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

PHILLIPS: So as you followed the information via cell phone, you were able to locate the home. Did the neighbors in that neighborhood help you as well to locate Zarqawi in that house?

TAMIMI: People, they call for this (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

PHILLIPS: Colonel Dhya Tamimi, I apologize, we're having a hard time understanding you. But I did get the part that you did work side by side with American Special Forces to monitor the cell phones of Zarqawi and his associates, which is what led you to that neighborhood.

Our hat's off to you with an incredible mission. I know there's a lot more to talk about, if we can get a better connection, we will talk with you again. Colonel Dhya Tamimi, we want to thank you very much for your time.

Straight ahead, Marines accused of atrocities in Iraq. CNN's Ted Rowlands is in California where a father talks about allegations against his son -- Ted.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Ted Rowlands in California outside Camp Pendleton. Coming up, we are going to hear from a father of a Marine who is held in the brig. He and other parents are upset with the treatment of what they say are the seven Marines and the Navy Corpsmen. We're going to hear from that father, an exclusive interview coming up on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, now to the accusations aimed at U.S. forces in two Iraqi cities. U.S. Marines are suspected of killing several unarmed civilians in Haditha and one man in Hamdaniya.

CNN's Ted Rowlands is in Oceanside, California, home of Camp Pendleton, where seven Marines and a Navy Corpsmen could face murder charges in the Hamdaniya case.

Ted, what do you know?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, we talked to a father of one of the Marines in the brig here at Camp Pendleton. There are seven Marines and a Navy Corpsman, a medic, in the brig here. They've been here in excess of two weeks.

And we talked to this father about the conditions that his son is enduring. And this is what he is upset about and the other parents are upset about. They have a network, these parents.

They say that these young men are heroes and should be treated as such until this investigation comes to a close and that they deserve the benefit of the doubt, because they are young men and they were serving in Iraq, doing what he says was their deeds. And he says that his son is the quintessential Marine.

John Jodka is a 20-year-old, private first class with the Marine Corps. He was serving in Iraq and is now in -- wrapped up in this Hamdaniya investigation.

These seven Marines and the Navy Corpsmen are being investigated in the death of a 52-year-old Iraqi civilian in April. All of them had been brought back here to Camp Pendleton, pending this investigation. No charges have been filed yet by the Marine Corps, but the investigation continues. And while that investigation continues, they're all in solitary confinement, in their cells, 23 hours a day with one hour of exercise. When they're out, they are shackled and chaperoned.

This father says that there is no reason for his son or the others to be treated in this manner. He's also upset with what he says is a lack of support going all the way up to President Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN JODKA II, DETAINED MARINE'S FATHER: While they're being investigated, they deserve to be treated like the heroes they are, like the combat Marines that they are, in the best mode of the United States Marine Corps and their battalion.

There has not word one from President Bush to Secretary Rumsfeld to Peter Pace, to General Hagee to Major General Zilmer in Iraq. Any level of support for a full and fair investigation or any statement that these men are still Marines. And that is very disappointing.

I don't know whether I'm past anger or whether I'm building up to anger, but I know that I'm very disappointed. I think that the Marine leadership has turned their backs on these men.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROWLANDS: Now the Marines have issued a number of statements over the past few weeks. In terms of addressing the conditions here and the reason they're in solitary, the Marine says the initial investigation as to what happened in Hamdaniya warrants these Marines to be in the brig and in solitary confinement.

And they also say that these young men will be afforded every right that they have under military law and will get a fair trial.

Again, we're waiting for charges. They were expected last week, but still no formal charges from the Marine Corps against these young men -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Has Mr. Jodka said anything about what his son thinks about being held in solitary confinement?

ROWLANDS: He says that his son has a very good attitude about it. And he's hopeful that this is going to be cleared up. In fact, he says his son wants to go back to Iraq as soon as possible and rejoin his fellow Marines. He says he's not bitter at this point at all.

A lot of the parents, however, are very bitter, and some of the Marines, we understand, are having a very tough time with the way they're being treated.

PHILLIPS: Ted Rowlands, thanks so much.

That was just a bit of Ted Rowlands' conversation with one Marine's father. You're going to see the full interview on "ANDERSON COOPER 360" tonight at 10 Eastern.

Al Qaeda's top man in Iraq is gone, but somebody will slide into Abu Musab al Zarqawi's shoes. We're going to talk long term and short term, and the Zarqawi effect, when LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: The World Cup is officially under way in Germany but when it's all over a month from now, the loudest cheers could be coming from the TV networks carrying the tournament. Susan Lisovicz live from the New York Stock Exchange to explain.

Hey, Susan.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, I'm not going to name names, but I do know some folks on Wall Street who adjusted their business schedules to accommodate the World Cup, which began at noon eastern time. Costa Rica against Germany, the first match, but dozens through the next month.

And this year's World Cup is expected to pull in about $1 billion in global advertising. And one billion viewers worldwide are expected to watch the championship game on July 9, more than triple the viewership of the Super Bowl.

TV ratings most certainly expected to be higher than they were four years ago when the tournament was held in Japan and South Korea. That's because the matches will be scheduled to better capture the prime time audiences in Europe as well as fans in North and South America.

In 2002, those viewers had to watch the matches late at night or very early in the morning but some advertisers are concerned that the World Cup is too cluttered with rival branding messages for one company to have much of an impact on viewers. American advertisers include Yahoo!, Coca-Cola, MasterCard, McDonald's and as we discussed a few days ago, Budweiser to address that issue.

Soccer's ruling council will cut the number of official sponsors for the next tournament in South Africa in 2010 from 15 to six. They want a little bit more, I guess, exclusivity if they're going to pay the big bucks, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Are they having to pay big bucks in Germany for security? LISOVICZ: Security has certainly increased, no question about it, Kyra. Security at the dozen venues, hosting matches across Germany much tighter this year than it was four years ago. Most tickets, for instance, are imprinted with spectator's names and have embedded radio frequency chips that link tickets to names in a database. Security officials will randomly crosscheck ticket holders' identities against the names on the tickets. Fans who are caught with tickets registered to someone else won't be allowed in.

German authorities have also compiled a list of what is called known hooligans, and they will be barred from entering stadiums because of past trouble making.

But Extra (ph) said the new security measures aren't likely to deter some fans from buying from scalpers and ticket brokers. On eBay, tickets for many matches are being offered at more than $1,000 each, 20 times their face value. I guess there are more capitalists than sports fans sometimes, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: I'll tell you everybody here over on the international desk, that's all they're talking about is the World Cup. So I'm hearing it, too, right next to me.

What's happening on Wall Street?

(STOCK REPORT)

PHILLIPS: All right, I'm getting the word, Germany up, 3-1.

LISOVICZ: That's what I'm hearing, too.

PHILLIPS: All right, thanks, Susan.

Well, he's out. But he says he's not down. Tom DeLay stays true to his reputation in his farewell to Congress. We'll tell you what he said when LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: For all his reported shortcomings as a soldier and a leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi knew how to get his words and deeds to the masses. He was cyber savvy, using the Internet as coldly as he used bombs and knives.

Here's our technology correspondent, Daniel Sieberg.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Don't let the smiley faces and inspirational music fool you. The messages and images are disturbing and immediate. Mere minutes after news of his death, countless Abu Musab al-Zarqawi supporters embraced his passionate use of the Internet.

In one case, a man writes he'd sacrifice his mother, his father and himself to carry on al Zarqawi's work. He says he's envious of what Zarqawi has now, presumably martyrdom.

NED MORAN, TERRORISM RESEARCH CENTER: I can't imagine that this -- his death will tamper down the use the Internet. I think it's proven to be a very valuable tool for al Qaeda, the core organization, as well as its disparate vanguard outposts throughout the world.

SIEBERG: Al-Zarqawi is widely acknowledged as the terrorist leader to most fully capitalize on the global and instantaneous nature of the Internet. His followers weren't far behind, sharing jihadist messages, vicious, anti-American sentiment, macho poses symbolizing power.

But video resonates the most. Twenty-six-year-old American contractor Nicholas Berg was kidnapped in Iraq two years ago. Online video of his beheading made a dramatic impact for very different reasons.

MORAN: So what we saw in the Nic Berg videos one video designed to hit multiple target audiences. On the one hand, the video struck fear within the Western world, America in particular. But on the other hand, it could also be used to rally support for his cause among potential recruits.

SIEBERG: Few doubt that it's actually al-Zarqawi in the video. Regardless, the clip was downloaded millions of times after it was posted in May 2004, circumnavigating traditional media outlets.

(on camera): Zarqawi also brazenly started a monthly Internet magazine called "Zarwat Al Sanam," which translates to "tip of the camel hump." It's full of religious justification, al Qaeda propaganda and fighting tips.

(voice-over): The Internet's ease of use which means anyone can find or create these emotionally-charged Web sites to inspire acts of terrorism in the real world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're starting to see a convergence of the two where individual cells are going to the Internet, getting these bomb-making recipes, getting ideological justification and religious inspiration online, and then getting operational plans as well and moving to the offline world.

SIEBERG: Consider it a borderless front on the war on terror.

Daniel Sieberg, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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