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Federal Courthouse in Chicago on Lockdown After Suspect Escapes; Responding to the North Korea Missile Threat

Aired June 22, 2006 - 13:36   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: No deadlines, no draw-downs, no deviations for the president's policy. The final word for now in the U.S. Senate on the U.S. forces in Iraq, a pair of Democratic proposals aimed at challenges what supporters call a failed stay-the-course strategy were soundly voted down today. Speaking for the Republican Majority, Senate leader Bill Frist declared, quote, "surrender is not a solution." We expect to hear from General Casey and Secretary Rumsfeld later this afternoon. The two are scheduled to brief reporters about 3:30 p.m. Eastern. We're going to bring that to you live.
The war is over for eight American troops being held at Camp Pendleton, California, but it still might cost them their lives. The seven Marines and one Navy medic are charged with murdering an innocent civilian in the Iraqi town of Hamandiyah in April, then planting a weapon on him so he'd look like an insurgent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. STEWART NAVARRE, U.S. MARINE CORPS: The Marine Corps takes allegations of wrongdoing by its members very seriously, and is committed to thoroughly investigations such investigations. The Marine Corps also prides itself on holding its members accountable for their actions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: A civilian lawyer for one of the troops calls the allegations shocking and says the story has two sides. The father of one the Marines says none of the men is guilty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRY PENNINGTON, SON CHARGED WITH MURDER: He cannot speak to us about the facts in the case, per advice of all the attorneys. He's told me that he is very upbeat, he feels great, he knows that he did nothing wrong. He knows the others did nothing wrong. So he's 100 percent confident that this will go away. If it does go to trial, they will be found not guilty.

Dates for pretrial hearings are pending. Looking far down the road rather, murder convictions in military court-martial could bring the death penalty.

Let's get straight to Fredricka Whitfield now. She's working details on that developing story out of Chicago -- Fred. FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Well, more on lockdown taking place at a federal building in downtown Chicago as the search continues for a suspect. The reason why it's a lockdown, Jonathan Freed just attended a U.S. marshal's service briefing just moments ago.

Jonathan, what did they say?

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I was talking to U.S. marshal, Kim Wida (ph), and I had a chance to chat with him after the briefing as well to clarify a few things. First of all, we know that Larnell Rogers poses no public danger, at least is not believed to pose any public danger at all. He does have a criminal record, the marshal, the marshal says, but he is consider nonviolent.

What happened is, earlier today, he showed up late for a hearing. But he didn't appear at that hearing, and it involved charges of -- he's accused of lying to an ATF agent. When he didn't show up for that hearing, a warrant was issued for his arrest. Now he arrived late with somebody that we are told was his wife, although the marshal's office says they haven't confirmed that, but that's what they've been told and are passing on to us. He was informed that the warrant was issued, and that's when he left. I asked did he bolt, did he run? They wouldn't characterize how he left, except to say that he took when he was informed that the warrant had been issued. They went on to the PA system here in the federal building, and they announced that he should stop where he is, get down on his knees and wait. And they say that he either didn't hear that or did not comply. They admit that it is possible that he left the building. They say that they're not sure that he has, but they say it certainly is possible. And that's of course when we asked, well, does he pose a public danger? And they said no, we don't believe so.

They're going through know what they're describing as a systemic search of the building. They wouldn't go into detail as to how they're doing that. And they say although he is considered non- violent, he was not a prisoner, he was not in custody, he was out on bond. Those are the words used by the U.S. marshal. They say they're going through this because it's a federal building, they like to preserve decorum here. People are not supposed to leave in any manner when they're told that an arrest warrant has been issued for them, so they're taking no chances and going through the building.

He's described as in his late 30s or early 40s. Name again is Larnell Rogers. And a sense of calm is certainly how I would describe the lobby here. There are more media people present now than anybody else in the lobby. And he building continues to be on lockdown. They're just not taking any chances, not allowing anybody else back in for regular business purposes as of now. Back to you.

WHITFIELD: So Jonathan, it's understandable, the significance of the building and why such measures are being taken to protect the building and the offices in the building. But does it not seem like extreme measures to be taking for someone who is not considered to be violent, someone who is late for a hearing, which happens, who also is facing a warrant out for his arrest, which happens? FREED: Well, you raise a good point. And that issue was raised with the marshal in so many words. And that's what he responded, well, we have procedures that we have to follow. This is a federal building. We want to preserve decorum here. A warrant was issued. He didn't comply. So we feel that this is the course that we have to follow. That's the way that question was answered.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jonathan Freed, thanks so much for that update from Chicago.

FREED: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Fred.

Trying to stop a bullet with a bullet. North Korea raises the stakes for the Pentagon's missile shield strategy. Are U.S. defenses ready? Stay with CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Communist North Korea. Nobody on the outside really knows what's going on on the inside, especially when it comes to military capabilities. It's been tense between Pyongyang and the West for more than 50 years, with plenty of missile tests. So why all the fuss now?

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PHILLIPS (voice-over): It's one of the most isolated countries in the world, led by one of the least predictable leaders in the world.

JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMB. TO UNITED NATIONS: We don't know exactly what North Korea has in mind. Nobody can read Kim Jong-Il's mind.

PHILLIPS: That's why everyone is so concerned about reports North Korea may be getting ready to test a long-range Taepodong-2 missile. North Korea leaders say they have one, and that that nuke has a firing radius of 9,300 miles.

What does that mean for you and me? It means U.S. cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, even Denver, are within its range. The Pentagon is working on a missile defense program, but so far only five of the ten tests of the interceptor have been successful.

JOHN PIKE, GLOBALSECURITY.ORG: If it's only working half of the time and it's the only thing standing between you and an incoming hydrogen bomb, you'd say it's not working very well at all.

PHILLIPS: North Korea has not test-fired a long-range missile since 1998. The Bush administration warns testing such a missile would be an act of provocation. But so far, it's talking about a diplomatic response, not a military one. BOLTON: The launch of a missile, particularly if it goes after Japanese territory, is clearly a threat to international peace and security. It's something we can't accept.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: So is all this missile talk truly a threat or another attempt by Pyongyang to command attention? Well, my guest, a former assistant secretary of defense, believes the former and has some ideas about a response.

Dr. Ashton Carter, co-director of the Preventative Defense Project at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government, and author of a very strong op-ed piece in today's "Washington Post." That's why we called him in.

Dr. Carter, I think anybody would be drawn to your article if you saw the title: "If Necessary, Strike and Destroy." Why do you believe in this drastic approach?

DR. ASHTON CARTER, PREVENTATIVE DEFENSE PROJECT: Well, let me just put this in context. There's still time for North Korea to do the right thing and not erect this missile and its launch site and prepare to test it and gather data that will allow them to make a whole fleet of ballistic missiles aimed at us.

What former Secretary of Defense Bill Perry and I both -- we both dealt with the North Koreans extensively and diplomatically -- said this morning was that if North Korea continues down the path of counting down the launch of that missile, well, then, the president -- President Bush should order that we simply destroy it on the launch pad. This can be done with one or two ordinary bombs.

It's like the air strike that we did on Zarqawi's location about two weeks ago. Nothing more extensive or dramatic than that. But it would have the effect of eliminating the North Korean's ability to collect this data and develop their fleet of missiles, and it would also put them on notice that it's time to stop.

PHILLIPS: All right, a couple questions. You mentioned Zarqawi. We saw what those 500 pound bombs did. It literally blew away two homes in its entirety in that neighborhood. There were other people affected besides Zarqawi. So, of course, you hear, all right what if we did drop two 500-pound bombs on this launchpad and took this missile out? Is that what you are saying would be the best option? Or are you talking about something out at sea? What -- is there a smart way, I guess, to take out that missile site, where nobody else would get hurt?

CARTER: Well, people talk way too casually about surgical strikes in general. But if there ever was a surgical strike, this would be one. A ballistic missile on its launch site cannot run and hide like Zarqawi could have done if he had known those aircraft were coming. A big ballistic missile is a multi-story thin, aluminum- skinned bladder filled with high energy fuel. So it's a very, very vulnerable target, and there's no question that we could eliminate it. We suggest that we warn North Korea in advance of our intention to do this. This, for two reasons. The first and most important one is that we hope that will cause them to make a decision they need to make, which is to knock it off and not cross this line. But also, they can evacuate personnel from the area. Nobody has any intention or desire to hurt people. We just need to make sure that they don't use this test to develop a missile force, which is designed to carry nuclear weapons to our territory, as your lead-in suggested.

PHILLIPS: But let's say strike and destroy is the way the U.S. goes. You know as well as so many of us know, Kim Jong-Il is, you know, he's a very volatile individual. And some might say wouldn't this create a disaster between the U.S. and North Korea and who knows what he could do if, indeed, we did strike that launch pad.

CARTER: Well, there are a couple things to say about that. First, of course, this is a risky course of events. But the alternative is riskier, we judge, namely to allow North Korea and Kim Jong-Il to launch this missile, perfect his arsenal, to be emboldened by crossing one more line that we tell him not to cross, he crosses it and we do nothing.

I don't believe that North Korea will react to something this precise and solely directed at their weapons of mass destruction programs with anything like an all-out war.

For one thing, it would be irrational for them to attack South Korea because South Korea will have nothing to do with the American strike if such a strike were ever conducted. This is something we can do entirely by ourselves. There's no reason to get the South Koreans involved.

And so I don't think Kim Jong-Il -- and I've dealt with that government, I believe they are very unusual, but not so irrational or so suicidal as to take an action like this and turn it into a war or some escalatory action that would only work to their further detriment.

PHILLIPS: All right, final question Dr. Carter. You wrote an op-ed piece for the "Washington Post" back in 2002 that "the relatively slow pace of North Korea's nuclear programs makes it possible and advisable to take the time for a diplomatic approach. Firm diplomacy can forestall the north from realizing its nuclear ambitions."

Well, we look at the op-ed piece today, you see strike and destroy. At what point did you realize all right, diplomacy is not working, we've got to get much more serious on this issue? Or do you think there is still a chance for some diplomatic talks?

CARTER: Well, I'm always hopeful about the diplomatic path. I'm not one of those people who thinks you can't negotiate with North Korea. You can. We've had some success with them in the past. You never succeed entirely. And the last five years has been a failure.

There's plenty of blame to go around. Of course, the blame starts with North Korea, and extends to China, which has not been adequately helpful, South Korea and so forth.

But our administration has also been divided within itself between those who believe in talking to North Korea and trying to talk them out of it, and those would don't believe in talking to North Korea and, therefore, have done nothing. Those two camps have been at loggerheads and that has essentially paralyzed us in the diplomatic process.

And for all those reasons these talks have, therefore, gone nowhere. And Bill Perry and I just reluctantly concluded that we have to admit we are where we are, which is that diplomacy has failed and it's time to tell North Korea they really can't take this step. We have a nondiplomatic counter that we can and are prepared to take.

PHILLIPS: Dr. Ashton Carter, appreciate your time today, sir.

CARTER: Thank you. Good to be here with you today, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, he's one of the most powerful men in America, and this morning, he sat down with our John King. Vice President Cheney speaks out on the situation with North Korea, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Cut and dry but not as windy and that might be the break that firefighters in Arizona need. The wildfire near Sedona has grown to 3,300 acres. It's reached but hasn't jumped Highway 89A yet. Homes and businesses are on the other side.

Investigators are offering a $5,000 reward now for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the transients that they believe started that fire.

Now in southern Colorado, cooler, damper weather is helping fire crews battle a nearly 11,000 acre wildfire. They have about a third of it contained but have not given the all-clear to the hundreds of people evacuated.

Well, from ground zero to the seven seas, that's no ordinary steel in the bow -- or in the bow, rather, of the USS New York, under construction near New Orleans. We're going to take you to the shipyard, straight ahead on LIVE FROM.

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