Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

Help From the Dead; High Water, Low Marks

Aired June 28, 2006 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Speaking of money, Congress sets the federal minimum age, doing it for the first time in 1938. Members also give themselves pay raises. Well, the gap between the two is huge, and it's growing.
Here's a CNN Fact Check.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The last time Congress raised the federal minimum wage was in 1997, when it was set at the current rate of $5.15. During that same period, members of Congress voted themselves pay raises. Technically, cost of living increases, totalling $31,600. That's the equivalent of more than $15 an hour increase for a 40-hour week, according to the Congressional Research Service. The Washington-based Center for Economic and Policy Research says the minimum wage is, adjusting for inflation, at its lowest point in 50 years. Raising it to $7.25, the center says, would increase a minimum wage worker's annual pay by just over $1,500.

With an eye on the November elections, Senate Democrats are vowing to block any congressional pay hike until the minimum wage is increased. Some economists, however, warn, raising the minimum wage may cause more harm than good. Despite some polls showing a majority of Americans support raising the minimum wage, the business community opposes the effort. Among other things, business owners might hire fewer low-skilled workers.

The National Restaurant Association says that the last time the minimum wage was increased, some 146,000 restaurant workers lost their jobs.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, Saddam Hussein on trial for crimes against humanity. Evidence against him is out there. Some of it just takes a little digging. I'm going to talk to a man that's learning volumes about a dreadful period of Iraq's history. He's there and he's investigating those graves. We'll talk about the people long dead and bury and what he's learning. That's coming up on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: They believe he belongs to al Qaeda. They believe he's a bomber, a killer. Today, he's in custody in Iraq. This man from Tunisia has supposedly confessed to an active role in February's mosque bombing in Samarra. The man is not in good shape, seriously wounded when he and 15 others attacked a Iraqi security checkpoint several days ago. The other attackers were killed. The Samarra bombing gutted a Shiite mosque and triggered the current state of sectarian violence.

Now another al Qaeda suspect in coalition hands today, this one captured in Baquba, just northeast of Baghdad. In the process, the military says troops killed a civilian, who was later found to be a noncombatant.

Also in Baquba today, a car bomb went off near a crowded coffee shop and a Shiite mosque. One person was killed; 14 were hurt.

The search for clues. Lab guys at a crime scene, high-tech gadgets, old-school detective work, sounds like one of those "CSI" show, right? Well, it's also serious, important work in Iraq, a place where appalling crimes against humanity were likely committed. Sadly, the only real proof lies with people who have been dead 15 years or more.

Michael "Sonny" Trimble joins me from Baghdad. He's an archaeologist, but more than that, he wants to give voice to the thousands of victims of war crimes.

Sonny, great to have you with us. And I've had the chance to really talk with you in detail. And I think one of the most powerful images that you gave me was that first grave site you went to. Tell our viewers why that made such an impact on you.

MICHAEL "SONNY" TRIMBLE, ARCHAEOLOGIST: I think the biggest impact that I had was that the individuals that we took out of the ground, 123 individuals, they were all women and children, they were all shot in the back of the head, and the average age of those individuals was 11 years of age.

PHILLIPS: Eleven years of age. And we're looking actually at some of the clothes that you recovered from these grave sites, from the pregnant women victims, from these children. You talk about 11 years old, but even some of the clothes that we saw from this lab, Sonny, looked like these were babies, I mean, infants.

Why is it so important to not only study the clothes, but every ounce of evidence that you have in that grave site, from the bones, to the skulls, to the clothes to the bullet wounds?

TRIMBLE: Well,i think the best way to describe it is that the graves are a crime scene, just like you'd have a crime scene in a major city or anywhere else. We approach it that way. So we have a series subject-matter experts, whether you're talking about people who are experts in clothing, people who are experts in forensic anthropology, who look at the bones and try to characterize the trauma and how people died, pathologists, a whole range of people, people that work in digital imaging. And when you put all that together, the data from each one of those individual tents comes together and it forms a complete and total clear picture that we then give to the courts to use in their prosecution. PHILLIPS: So from what you've observed to this point, without a doubt, would you be able to say that these people died from execution- style shootings?

TRIMBLE: All the individuals that we've excavated died by a gunshot wound, yes, every one we looked at and the pathologist signed off on, yes, have all died from gunshot wounds, some way.

PHILLIPS: So, Sonny, have you been able to then take this evidence and present it to the proper attorneys, the proper individuals within the court system, and said, look this is what was the weapons of choice for Saddam's police and Saddam's forces. Are you able to get that detailed?

TRIMBLE: Oh, yes, absolutely. What we do is we put together really two work products for the Iraqi High Tribunal Court, put together what's called a case file, which would be familiar to any prosecutor anywhere in the world. That case file speaks about each individual and what happened to them. It's a synopsis of all the data we have on that individual and how they may have died. And the second deliverable that we give to court is a report that pulls all that together, and our analysis of the entire crime scene, what happened there, as best we can put it together, given the information we have.

PHILLIPS: And, Sonny, you have a pretty amazing high-tech lab. I've been able to see the inside of it. We're looking at video of it as well. Give our viewers a sense for what you have here and what you're able to do.

TRIMBLE: Well, I have a lab that has been put together with a lot of resources, which I think all of us are very grateful for. One of the best resources we have was given to us by the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, and that's the database that shows us where over 220 mass graves are in all of Iraq. That was put together in 2003, 2004.

And from that database, what we've put together is a series of aerial photographs. We have a geographic information system that we use to completely document everything in the field when we do our work. And then when we bring all the remains and the cultural objects, personal objects, and clothing back, all of those individual items, like I said, are analyzed in isolation so that not one tent knows what the other tent is doing. In the end, it's all put together into a whole picture. So you have a very segregated analysis unit so that the data in the end speaks to what happened to these people.

PHILLIPS: Which leads me to my final question, Sonny. When you go home from a day's work, I'm curious to how you process all of this. And do you actually sit back and think to yourself, this is the only chance these victims will have a voice, is what I'm doing, what other archaeologists are doing, and how we put this evidence together?

TRIMBLE: I think -- I think it's the greatest opportunity in the corps of engineers certainly we've ever had. I think all the people that work here really realize that, for them, it's a great career opportunity to help the people of Iraq. And, yes, the days are long, as you point out. They're very, very long.

But everybody's here, on their own free will, and they keep coming back. We have 80 percent of the people we started with almost a year and a half ago. So I think that speaks to the team and how dedicated they are to this work.

PHILLIPS: And so are you. Michael "Sonny" Trimble, sure appreciate your time. Really respect what you're doing.

TRIMBLE: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Sonny.

TRIMBLE: Goodnight.

PHILLIPS: Let's get straight to the newsroom now. Fredricka Whitfield working details open a developing story for us -- Fred.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this time coming out of Pakistan, where that country is reinforcing its complete support to the war on terrorism. Also, now, revealing, according to the foreign minister of Pakistan that it's his belief that the elusive Taliban leader Mullah Omar is not hiding in his country but in Afghanistan. But no details on any kind of evidence of that being revealed from the foreign minister.

Meantime, the foreign minister is saying that an additional 10,000 troops have been sent to the tribal areas along the Afghan border, bringing in recent months their total to 90,000 there and by reinforcing Pakistan's commitment to war on terrorism.

You're looking at pictures right now, while Condoleezza Rice has been meeting with Pakistan officials, as well as Afghan officials. She reemphasized earlier today that it's important for the U.S., Pakistan, Afghanistan, all to work together in this war on terrorism.

That's the latest here -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Fred, thanks so much.

Straight ahead, roads are rivers. Basements deluged and waters are rising by the hour. The latest from the flood zone straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Bad weather as bell weather? Well, some are looking at Washington's reaction to the current floods as an indicator of how the nation's capital would function in another kind of crisis.

CNN's Brian Todd has more on the high water and low marks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nearly a foot of rain in some places -- flash floods, motorists stranded, traffic lights out. At least five U.S. government facilities closed. What if this weather barrage been a terrorist attack?

RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: If this had been a life-threatening incident for lots of people, I think we would have pandemonium on the streets.

TODD: CNN analyst Richard Falkenrath is an expert on homeland security, who's about to join New York's police force as its director of counterterrorism. Falkenrath and other experts say Washington has a poor record handling population loads during natural disasters. Command and control, they say, a huge problem.

Too many jurisdictions in the metropolitan D.C. area with no one agency or official making key decisions. Officials at the D.C. Emergency Management Agency say they can't help it if roads flood and lights malfunction in bad weather.

But if terrorists strike...

BARBARA CHILDS-PAIR, DIR., D.C. EMERGENCY MGMT. AGENCY: We have traffic management plans, rerouting efforts, and then we're not looking everybody coming in and going out the same time. So we have plans in place to kind of maneuver folks to get out of town.

TODD: But Falkenrath worries about another factor all major cities would face during a terrorist attack.

FALKENRATH: If the people stuck in those traffic jams felt that they were at risk themselves or their families were at risk somewhere else, I think you'd have a lot of very problematic behavior by individual commuters.

TODD: As for the federal government, agencies still closed, like the Justice Department, have kicked in their so-called continuity of operations plan to function from other locations. Experts say those plans, for the most part, have worked well.

(on camera): But the experts we spoke to, along with the Department of Homeland Security, in a recent report point out that D.C. is hardly alone here, that most major cities have poor contingency plans for evacuation and other emergency procedures. And experts point out it's almost impossible to evacuate any major city efficiently under almost any circumstances.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Now, Brian Todd is part of the team covering the world for "THE SITUATION ROOM." Join Wolf Blitzer weekday afternoons at 4:00 Eastern and primetime at 7:00 p.m.

We're just getting pictures in now -- as you know, we've been talking about the flooding from Washington to New Jersey, to Georgia, all throughout the East Coast. And now we're getting these pictures in via one of our affiliates, News 12, out of New Jersey. This is Phillipsburg. It's western -- the western part of New Jersey. Not quite sure exactly where it is. But you're just getting a sense for how this flooding is spreading throughout the state. Homes and roads and livelihood definitely being affected.

We are following all the conditions. Of course, we'll bring you more as we get it. And we're also checking in with Reynolds Wolf throughout the next couple of hours, as well, in the weather center.

Now back to yesterday's motel explosion in western Georgia. Crews have found a body that's believed to be the maintenance worker who was missing this time yesterday. But two motel guest who also were unaccounted for are safe. There's still no definite word on the cause of that devastating blast. Investigators suspect a natural gas leak.

Fighting fire in Grand Canyon National Park. Well, crews are on the scene there, and so are we. A live report straight ahead. Keep it here on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, you think it's hard to be you? Somebody else might like to be you for illicit purposes. And if police and the courts don't catch on it, can be really hard to be you. Just ask Stancy Nesby -- the real Stancy Nesby. An extreme case of identity theft complicated by legal bureaucracy almost ruined her life.

Our Dan Simon investigated for "A.C. 360."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every time Stancy Nesby looks in the rearview mirror, she can't help but wonder if she's about to be pulled over.

STANCY NESBY, IDENTITY THEFT VICTIM: Everybody needs to put themselves in my shoes and know that this could happen to them.

SIMON: A 30-year-old single mom with four kids who holds two jobs working as a nurse's assistant, life was hard enough before her problems with police.

NESBY: It's made it really hard for me to smile and be the normal person that I felt like I was at first.

SIMON: It started four years ago when Stancy was pulled over for speeding in the Bay area. She admitted going too fast, but couldn't understand why she was being arrested.

NESBY: I ended up going to jail that day. They didn't believe anything I was saying.

SIMON, (on camera): It turned out Stancy had a warrant for her arrest. The police database has showed she'd been busted for cocaine possession here in San Francisco's seedy Tenderloin District back in 1999, but that she never showed up for court appearances.

Stancy had to spend three days in jail. The problem? She was innocent.

(voice-over): Police later confirmed it when her fingerprints didn't match the real suspect who had used Stancy's name.

NESBY: I've had nightmares about this.

SIMON: She says police told her they'd fixed the problem. But two months later, Stancy was arrested again, this time at her home in Berkeley. Once again, she says when the officer discovered the error, they told her they'd help her clear her name. But three months later, Stancy was arrested again in yet another jurisdiction.

And it didn't end there. From 2002 to 2004, Stancy was arrested or detained seven times by five police departments. In one instance, hauled off right in front of her children.

NESBY: The kids were crying and basically they ended up, you know, throwing me on the ground and sticking their knees in my back.

SIMON: Every time, she says authorities promised to fix the problem, but didn't.

NESBY: Maybe it's because I'm not a rich person, that they feel like I'm nobody. But I am somebody and I have feelings and I don't think that they should ruin people's lives like this.

SIMON: Stancy filed this lawsuit against San Francisco, claiming false imprisonment and emotional distress after failing to remove her arrest warrant from state databases. Her attorney says the case is clear-cut.

MATT GONZALEZ, NESBY'S ATTORNEY: You think you've seen so many cases that you're jaded to what you're going to see, but this one still hits you at a very kind of visceral level. You just -- you just look at it and you say this is not right.

SIMON: The city says it's not responsible for correcting faulty arrest warrants. It also notes that Stancy was never arrested in San Francisco, but concedes she was wronged.

MATT DORSEY, CITY ATTORNEY SPOKESMAN: This is something that I don't think you would wish on your worst enemy. You know, you pray it doesn't happen it to you.

SIMON: No one has taken responsibility for Stancy's ordeal. The courts ruled against her twice. Her attorney says he'll appeal to the State Supreme Court if necessary.

GONZALEZ: Bureaucracies don't change because people wake up and want to make them more efficient. They generally change because they're forced to take responsibility for something that they're doing that they shouldn't be doing.

NESBY: I just can't believe that people that are supposed to be helping, you know, people that are supposed to protect and serve would actually hurt somebody who's innocent. SIMON: Even though a judge dismissed her lawsuit, the court asked the D.A. to remove the warrant from the database, which finally cleared her name.

Still, she can't help looking in the rearview mirror.

Dan Simon, CNN, San Francisco.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And you can see more stories and identity theft on Anderson Cooper's show, "A.C. 360." It airs weeknight, 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific.

Straight ahead, tanks roll, bombs fall, tensions rise. Israeli forces cross into Gaza, hunting for a kidnapped soldier.

You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com