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Hezbollah Fighters Launch Rockets Into Haifa; Hezbollah Denies Firing Rockets into Haifa; Interview with James Zogby, founder of Arab American Institute

Aired July 13, 2006 - 13:58   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Even in the best of times, it's a tense and uncertain region, and these are not the best of times. Here's what we know so far in the Middle East. Hezbollah fighters have launched Katyusha rockets into northern Israel, including the major port city of Haifa. Israel says it's been hit by more than 70 rockets in the last 24 hours.
Dozens of people are wounded. One is confirmed dead. Israeli jets have bombed all three runways at the Beirut Airport. They also struck a TV station used by Hezbollah. And a full naval blockade has been set up off the Lebanese coast.

One more potential worry, an Israeli government spokesperson says Hezbollah may try to transfer two abducted Israeli soldiers to Iran. He won't say what information prompted the government's concern. Well, the Israeli military promised a robust response to the kidnapping of two soldiers this week. Robust it is.

CNN's Paula Hancocks is live from Jerusalem -- Paula.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kyra.

Well, we have been hearing from many Israeli officials in the past few minutes following two rockets that hit Haifa. Now, this is the third largest city in Israel. It's a very important port for Israel, 250,000 people live there. And this is the furthest that any rocket has ever reached from southern Lebanon.

Now, the Israeli forces are assuming it is Hezbollah guerillas who have launched this particular rocket. No casualties reported in the incident. But that's not the point, according to the Israeli officials.

We've heard from Shimon Peres, the deputy prime minister, condemning this. We also have been watching on Israeli television. We've heard Ehud Barak, the former Israeli prime minister who actually orchestrated the withdrawal from Lebanon of the Israeli troops back in 2000. He said it is a major, major escalation.

So, the rhetoric is certainly increasing since this particular rocket hit this major town.

Now, interestingly, Lebanese television is saying that Hezbollah is not claiming responsibility for this particular rocket. We'll try and get more of that later on this evening. But we know that airstrikes are continuing in southern Lebanon, as well, as they are in Gaza.

Israel still has a military operation ongoing in Gaza, and it's fighting on two fronts at the moment. And we know that the casualty lists are growing.

One Israeli woman was killed in the rockets coming from Lebanon into Israel earlier this Thursday. And we know that at least 45 people Lebanese people have been killed in Israeli military operations. That according to the Lebanese health minister. And then, in Gaza, at least 93 Palestinians have been killed in the past two and a half weeks.

So, tension escalating, violence escalating, and the casualty lists are growing.

PHILLIPS: Paula, we're just now getting in new videotape -- I don't know if you can see it from your vantage point -- of those rocket attacks from Lebanon into the Israeli city of Haifa. You know, we've been talking a lot about Haifa and the high temple that is there, and just the -- it's home of Mt. Carmel, where the Carmelite Order was founded back in 12c. It's that beautiful hill above Haifa.

There are so many "Old Testament" connections to this area, a place where a lot of people go for refuge. And now you're seeing the reality of what those rocket attacks have done. And the people that have lived there -- our Octavia Nasr was telling us, Paula, that it doesn't surprise them when it happens. They have shelters in their homes, they have shelters that they can go to.

So, it's this tale of two different worlds where they've got to be able to protect themselves, but at the same time a very spiritual place.

HANCOCKS: That's right, yes, and we know that in further north in Israel, all those towns that are just on the border with Lebanon have bomb shelters as well. In fact, earlier on this Thursday, before this rocket hit Haifa, rockets have been hitting other towns in that area.

We know, according to Israeli military, at least 90 people have been injured in those particular areas. And most people have been in their bomb shelters. Some of those towns have been like ghost towns. And now Haifa being affected as well.

This is the deepest that any of these rockets from Hezbollah have actually reached into Israel. So it's significant in that respect. We've heard from the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations as well, and he said, "I just got the news that Hezbollah hit Haifa, and this is a major, major escalation."

So, the rhetoric was harsh already from both sides, especially Israel. It's getting even harsher.

PHILLIPS: All right. Paula Hancocks, thanks so much.

Now we want to take you to an interview that our CNNI's Michael Holmes did with Israel's deputy prime minister, Shimon Peres, just a short ago.

Let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHIMON PERES, ISRAELI DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: I think that Hezbollah is a foreign body. It's a provocateur in the midst of our life.

There's no Lebanese interest to attack Israel. There's no Israeli interest to attack Lebanon. On the contrary, we would like to see a free Lebanon, integrated territory, live in peace as a good neighbor.

The one who tries to bring an entry (ph) is the Hezbollah.

Now, what we are going to do, the United Nations has called upon the Lebanese army to deploy itself along the border with Israel. Instead, Hezbollah deployed itself along the border, not as a force, but as an ambush to capture Israeli soldiers. And we shall not let them come back to it.

If the Lebanese army wants to deploy itself there, let them do it. They're a neighbor, they're a government.

If the Hezbollah would like to come back, they will discover that they cannot come back to ambush, to kill, to provoke, to destroy every ounce of goodwill. I mean, look, that's a religious fanatic group cooperating with the Iranians. (INAUDIBLE), and we are understand very well their evil intentions.

They forced us to use force. It wasn't our preference. And once we do it, we are now determined. It's painful, but we are going to do our job, and our responsibility to the Israeli citizens and the security, and the peace in the region.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, what's happening in the Middle East today has been a long time in the making.

Here's a "Fact Check."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Here's the map to the current Mideast crisis as it unfolds and how it began.

On Israel's southern tip is Gaza and its Hamas-led Palestinian Authority. North of Israel lies Lebanon, home to militant Hezbollah guerrillas.

On June 25th, armed Palestinians stormed an Israeli army border post, killing two Israeli soldiers and kidnapping one, Corporal Gilad Shalit. Israel refused a Hamas-proposed prisoner swap for Shalit's return. Instead, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert responded by saying his government would use extreme measures to rescue the kidnapped soldier.

A two-week military offensive ensued, with Israel bombing infrastructure in Gaza, as well as Hamas targets.

Then Wednesday, Hezbollah guerrillas attacked an Israeli military convoy on the Lebanon border, abducting two more soldiers. Eight Israeli troops were killed in the ambush and the fighting that followed. Israel says it held the Lebanese government responsible for the Hezbollah kidnapping and has begun a wide-ranging military offensive against Hezbollah and other targets in Lebanon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, the U.S. Navy doesn't want to get caught in the crossfire. It's moving a tug out of the northern Israeli port of Haifa, and CNN's Barbara Starr has the details from the Pentagon -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, we'll get to all that in a minute, indeed. In the hours before those rockets hit the port city of Haifa, the U.S. Navy did move a ship, but there was a lot of concern in the last many hours about rockets hitting Haifa.

The military significance that is being watched here at the Pentagon is considerable. What they are looking at is the fact that Lebanese Hezbollah now apparently does have the extended-range rockets that can hit Haifa, some 20 miles south of the Lebanese border. That's a big concern here.

There had been a lot of worry that Hezbollah had those rockets. Now it appears that they must indeed have that technology.

That concern, again, hours ago, leading the U.S. Navy to pull a ship out of Haifa harbor. It was a small tugboat, a ship called The Apache. It was in Israel doing a military exercise, but it was an unarmed ship, a noncombatant ship. And in the face of those threats to begin to attack Haifa, the Navy made the decision several hours ago, and that ship is now out of there.

But our military sources are telling us they are continuing to monitor the situation. The feeling is that the Israelis are probably right at this point that Hezbollah may have hundreds, if not thousands, of rockets. There could be a lot more unrest coming this way.

And, indeed, in the last couple of hours, our sources are also confirming to us that the military here is undertaking what they call prudent planning for the possibility of having to evacuate Americans out of Lebanon. And that, if it were to happen, Kyra, might be a considerable undertaking, because, of course, now Beirut International Airport, we have all seen the pictures, those runways have been bombed by the Israeli air force. The airport in Beirut is no longer functioning.

There are about 25,000 Americans in Lebanon. So far, there doesn't appear to be any urgency to get them out of there. But Pentagon sources confirming now that they are doing prudent planning, in their words, on how, if they had to evacuate Americans, they would get them out of Lebanon without the use of the airport -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And that's where the questions were sort of lingering, Barbara, is how would the U.S. get involved, would the U.S. get involved? So to this point, your sources saying, if they were to get involved with this, it would just be for the evacuation of American citizens in Lebanon, not necessarily any use of force?

STARR: Let's be very clear. The U.S. military has always considered it, indeed, its obligation to get Americans out of trouble around the world, Americans civilians especially, of course, if they find themselves into in the middle of a civil war, if they find themselves in a third country in conflict, under fire.

So that would, in fact, very, very much be the first obligation the U.S. military would have. Our sources telling us the most likely scenario, again, just planning.

If the airport is closed, they might have to put some ships in the Mediterranean, try and get Americans out that way, by helicopter in the unlikely event it came to that. But, let's also be very clear. The U.S. military, for years, has been working on technology, radars, advanced electronics on how to detect these types of rockets, these so-called Katyusha class rockets that Lebanese Hezbollah has been using. And they have worked with Israel for some years, the U.S. military, on that type of technology.

It involves the use of lasers and other high-tech electronic gear. One of the questions now, is there going to be some effort to restart that technology-sharing and get it to Israel in some fashion so they can begin to detect those rockets better? Nobody can say, Kyra. It's all very early in all of this, but there is no question throughout the day all of this has caused some worry here at the Pentagon -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Barbara Starr, appreciate it.

Well, six years of relative quiet between Israel and Lebanon evaporated today. Israeli forces took out targets, airports, army bases, bridges across Lebanon. And the response from Lebanon may redefine the Middle East conflict as we know it.

CNN's Alessio Vinci is in Beirut, where it's after 9:00 p.m. right now.

What's the latest, Alessio?

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kyra.

Let me first give you the very latest, what has been broadcast by Lebanese television, why the United States, the Pentagon worries about the reach of those rockets that have targeted Haifa. Several television stations here in Lebanon, including Al-Manar, who is the television station affiliated with the Hezbollah militia movement, is basically -- are basically denying that Hezbollah has fired those two rockets at northern Israel, at the northern port city of Haifa.

We do know, however, that earlier today those same television networks were broadcasting statements by Hezbollah saying that should Israel bomb the southern outskirts of Beirut, a stronghold, an Hezbollah stronghold, also believed to be the headquarters of the Hezbollah leader here, Hassan Nasrallah, then the Hezbollah would have retaliated against Haifa.

But there has been no such attack here in southern -- in the southern outskirts of Beirut, and, therefore, as of now, the Hezbollah movement, through its television network, is denying that it had fired -- that it has fired those two rockets -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. And still no word, is that right, Alessio, about how involved or if, indeed, the Lebanese forces will get involved with military action?

VINCI: Right now, we are getting no reports whatsoever that a Lebanese regular army is going to get involved into this. As a matter of fact, the Lebanese government has made it very clear that this is a unilateral action by Hezbollah, the kidnapping of the two soldiers, the two Israeli soldiers. And the basically, the government is dealing with its own divisions right now, and it has no intention whatsoever of getting its army involved at this stage. Making it very clear that Hezbollah on this one are on their own -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Alessio Vinci from Beirut.

Appreciate it.

President Bush is watching the Mideast hostilities from Germany. He's tending to a growing friendship with the chancellor there before heading on to Russia for a Group of 8 summit.

Here's what he had to say about Israel, Lebanon and Hezbollah.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a sad situation where -- when there is a very good chance for there to be a two-state -- a two-state solution enacted. That is, two states living side by side in peace. It's really sad where people are willing to take innocent life in order to stop that progress. As a matter of fact, it's pathetic.

And having said that, Israel a right to defend herself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, who is Hezbollah? A closer look now at the group at the center of the Israeli-Lebanese flare-up.

Our live coverage continues.

Plus, how this conflict is being covered in the Middle East. A rare look at Hezbollah television when LIVE FROM returns. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, even in the best of times, it's a tense and uncertain region, and these are not the best of times. Here's what we know so far in the Middle East.

Hezbollah fighters have launched Katyusha rockets into northern Israeli, including the major port city of Haifa. Israel says it's been hit by more than 70 rockets in the last 24 hours. Dozens of people are wounded. One is confirmed dead.

Israeli jets have bombed all three runways at the Beirut airport. They also struck a TV station used by Hezbollah, and a full naval blockade has been set up off the Lebanese coast.

One more potential worry. An Israeli government spokesperson says that Hezbollah may try to transfer two abducted Israeli soldiers to Iran. He won't say what information prompted the government's concern.

Carol Lin monitoring Hezbollah television.

Carol, how are they covering the conflict?

LIN: Well, just a short time ago, they were showing a picture of the Koran. It was normal prayer time for Muslims, but the picture showing essentially now what is being reported to the Lebanese people.

Call it what you will. Some people call it propaganda. The State Department calls this network an inciting terrorist act. It's banned in the United States.

We've been showing images only purely for news purposes here. It's been banned by the United States. It's been banned by the European Union.

Rare pictures that you are seeing out of Hezbollah television. Mostly propaganda, Kyra, characterizing the militants firing these rockets against Israel as heroes.

There we go. There's more pictures there, but characterizing them as heroes, they worship their actions, these are heroic actions against Israeli.

This network has in the past made outrageous claims about Israel. Obvious lies, claiming that Israelis were actually the ones responsible for spreading the HIV virus, for example, a complete and total untruth.

So we're watching these pictures that you saw earlier, Kyra. It looked like entertainment programming, right? You saw singers, dancing.

Part of the video presentation as a show of unity. They were Lebanese stars and actors, icons, cultural icons in the country which made a videotape. Hezbollah apparently even has its own musical themes that they have been singing on television.

Now, we're also watching a Lebanese -- the Lebanese broadcasting corporation and we're watching Israeli television. We're going to bring you the images as we get them.

PHILLIPS: All right. Sounds great.

Carol Lin, thank you.

Let's get a Lebanese perspective now on the escalating crisis. I'm joined from Washington by James Zogby. He's president and founder of the Arab American Institute.

James, I really appreciate you being with us.

I'm just curious. I don't know if you heard what Carol Lin was saying, but just the images and the coverage coming out of Lebanon, what's your take on two totally different views, but it's all happening there in the same country?

It's pretty fascinating.

JAMES ZOGBY, PRESIDENT, ARAB AMERICAN INSTITUTE: Two different worlds. And, you know, we have red state, blue state here in America, and Lebanon is a deeply fractured country.

There are issues that can bring Lebanese together, but -- but I don't think that either our administration has handled the situation in Lebanon well, and to some degree the parties in Lebanon themselves haven't -- haven't handled it well. But it's a fractured country, and there are different views of -- of the future and explanations for why they are in the present situation that they are in.

PHILLIPS: Now, you grew up in -- you were born...

ZOGBY: No. No, no, no.

PHILLIPS: No, no.

ZOGBY: I'm born here in the United States, and I'm not Lebanese. I'm Lebanese-American. I'm of Lebanese descent.

PHILLIPS: So, did you -- did you live there at any point?

ZOGBY: I did. Yes. My wife and I and my son, when he was a baby, I did my dissertation research in the country. And I have family there, and I go back as often as I can to visit.

PHILLIPS: So I'm -- all right. So I'm curious, then, from the time you were there -- and obviously you have a lot of family there -- can you compare, contrast what is happening now to, you know, maybe a better time, a worse time? How do you give sort of context to what we're seeing right now and the level of what we're seeing? ZOGBY: Well, to find a better time, you'd have to go back to the pre-1975 period. Lebanon's long war, coupled with a disastrous Israeli invasion of Beirut and bombardment of Beirut, then the occupation in the south, created terrible dislocations in that country. Following that, Lebanon never really had a chance to reconstruct itself.

The Taif Agreement at the end of the civil war period sort of created a temporary peace, but didn't solve the political problems in Lebanon. After the assassination of Prime Minister Hariri, there appeared to be a moment when Lebanon could come together, but I think that the situation did not resolve itself for many reasons.

And I don't think America played a constructive role. We took a side when, in fact, we should have been helping to bring the sides together.

In any case, I think that Lebanese remember 1982, when Israel went into Beirut, are fearful of something quite similar. Others may be fearful of something along the lines of what happened in the '90s, when Lebanon was bombed in the south and hundreds and hundreds of Lebanese civilians lost their lives this.

This, to date, has not been as aggressive as those other assaults, when ground troops were used and when, in fact, as I said, many civilians died. But it's getting there. And it could escalate out of control.

The problem right now is that the United States is not playing a leadership role. We don't talk to the sides. We don't have a mediator in the region.

PHILLIPS: So you think the U.S. should be more involved right now?

ZOGBY: Absolutely. There's no question.

Look, we've been absent from the scene now in a significant way for six years. And it's -- it's the fact that there's no restraint coming from the United States that has allowed the pathologies of all the parties to be playing out. And given the asymmetry of power, with Israel having it, there's nothing to restrain them.

And, therefore, you get provocative actions coming from Hezbollah or from the -- some on the Palestinian side being responded to with overwhelming force by the Israelis. The only thing that used to hold it in place is when the U.S. would say, not only be restrained, but send someone to the region and actively engage the parties and bring them together to stop it.

That's not happening now. And that's why this is, I think, a spiral that is downward and maybe out of control.

PHILLIPS: Well, and it's still pretty young, if you think about it. It will be interesting to see what's going to happen with the next couple of days. ZOGBY: Well, look at what's happened in Gaza to date, and there's virtually -- now the Lebanon situation has eclipsed the terrible humanitarian crisis that is unfolding in Gaza.

PHILLIPS: Well, you've got two -- you've got two battles going on right now.

ZOGBY: Yes.

PHILLIPS: You've got the battle in Gaza and the Israeli soldier that was kidnapped there, and now it's sort of escalated to this point on the Israeli-Lebanon border. You've got two battles going.

So, I mean, hindsight is 20/20, right? This is the situation that everybody is in. You're saying the U.S. needs to get involved.

ZOGBY: Absolutely.

PHILLIPS: But let me ask you, though -- Hezbollah is a legitimate part of this government, an organization deemed a terrorist organization by Israel, by the United States, but it's a legitimate part of this government. Interesting. A lot of people in the United States sit back and think, why is that? What's the benefit of having Hezbollah be a part of this government in a legitimate way, when, indeed, they are behind these terrorist attacks?

That's the question being asked by a lot of people here in the United States.

ZOGBY: Again, look, the actions that they've carried out are -- are ones that I don't support. But understand that Hezbollah represents a significant segment of Lebanese society in the south that lived under Israeli occupation, that found what Israel did to be for more repugnant than what Hezbollah did in response.

And so you have a country that has about 40 percent of the population being Shia. And that Shia population does not have a full role in governance.

By law -- or by agreement, rather, the president is Maronite, the prime minister is -- is Sunni. And the Shia get a very low-level speaker of the parliament that really has no power. And so they see Hezbollah and the Amal party that is another Shia group as giving them clout in an otherwise disempowered situation.

Therefore, they see Hezbollah as leading the resistance, as representing their voice. And if you want to form a government in Lebanon and you ignore the groups that represent 40 percent of the population, good luck.

And, so, it's a situation that I don't think we've dealt with well. And, you're right, in part because we don't understand it well. And, therefore, we haven't been able to bring the parties together.

PHILLIPS: James Zogby, I know we'll be talking a lot in the next couple of days. ZOGBY: OK.

PHILLIPS: And I do want to talk about the occupied land and more...

ZOGBY: Yes.

PHILLIPS: ... talk more in depth of why this is even taking place.

ZOGBY: Thank you so much.

PHILLIPS: James, I really appreciate your time.

ZOGBY: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: And in just a few minutes, we're going to hear an alternate view when I talk with Martin Indyk. He's a former U.S. ambassador to Israel.

But let's get back to Carol Lin. She's got new developments coming out of Beirut -- Carol.

LIN: This fresh out of the international desk. The Lebanese army has confirmed to CNN that there has been an Israeli gun boat attack, a second strike against the Beirut International Airport.

The airport -- the Israeli airstrikes took out three of the runways about, I would say, five or six hours ago, sometime this morning, Eastern Time. And also, Lebanese television reporting that gas tanks at that airport were targeted this time.

Kyra, we are monitoring both Lebanese television, Hezbollah television, as well as what is airing on Israeli TV. We are covering all sides of the conflict. And we want to show you some videotape there of an incoming missile from Israeli television, the images that Israelis are watching tonight over there.

The Israeli defense forces say -- tell CNN that they have fired hundreds of missiles in response to the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers. The fate of those soldiers still unknown right now. But dramatic images coming out of the Middle East. This is what people in the region are watching right now, as you can see, just the flicker of the lights there.

We don't, I think, see yet where that missile actually landed. But at least three cities in the northern part of Israel close to the Lebanese border have been under attack. Just an hour ago, we heard about a strike against the northern Israeli -- the port city, the blue collar town of Haifa.

So we're monitoring all the media, Kyra, and as soon as we decipher through these dramatic images out of the region, we're going to bring them to you.

PHILLIPS: All right. Carol Lin, appreciate it.

Well, how is this crisis affecting oil prices? How will it impact you? A live report from the New York Stock Exchange coming up next.

Plus, up in smoke. California's Yucca Valley is burning, and this wildfire could triple in size before it's controlled. A live report just ahead.

You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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