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Three Palestinians Killed in Gaza Clashes; Hezbollah Hostage Shares Story; British Open Underway

Aired July 20, 2006 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: While Lebanon is capturing most of the world's attention, three Palestinians were killed today in clashes with Israeli troops in Gaza.
Our Matthew Chance is live from Gaza City -- Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, thanks very much. In fact, there's been four Palestinians now, we've heard in the last few minutes, that have been killed as a result of Israeli action and clashes between Palestinian militants and Israeli forces.

Just a short distance from here in the center of the Gaza Strip, Israeli, rather, tanks and warplanes have been pounding that area in the central Gaza Strip. They say they're trying to deprive Palestinians of areas from which they fire their makeshift rockets from the Gaza Strip into southern Israel. Those rockets are not the same kind of accuracy, not as powerful as the ones that are being fired by Hezbollah from Lebanon. But, certainly they've been a thorn in the side of Israelis in the south of the country for the past several years.

The other, perhaps, priority issue they're trying to work out here, the Israelis, is trying to force Palestinian militants to release one of their soldiers, who was captured late last month, Corporal Gilad Shalit, who has been held since about June the 25th, when he was captured by Palestinian militants. They still believe he's alive, being held somewhere here in the Gaza Strip.

At the moment, though, and despite the -- you know, the incessant artillery barrages that we've been experiencing here and the airstrikes up and down the Gaza Strip, the Israelis have so far not managed to achieve either of their objectives here in the Gaza Strip. The rockets are still being fired into southern Israel, and Corporal Shalit is still very much being held. Palestinian militants believing that he is the best bargaining chip that they've had in years in their efforts to get some of the 10,000 or so Palestinian prisoners released from Israeli jails -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Matthew Chance, thanks so much. And Matthew, once again, reminds us that that Israeli soldier, that he says authorities believe is still alive, somewhere there in the Gaza Strip.

Well, Terry Waite knows what it's like to be held hostage by Hezbollah. In 1987, he was in Beirut as an envoy for the archbishop of Canterbury. He was trying to win the release of Western hostages when he was abducted. He was held for almost five years. Terry Waite joins me now from London.

Terry, so good to talk to you. Just knowing what you knew about Hezbollah at the time, when they did capture you, did you think you would survive?

TERRY WAITE, FORMER BEIRUT HOSTAGE: There were times when I didn't think I would survive. Hezbollah are a very highly disciplined group. In those days, they were predominantly seen by the West as being a terrorist group. Over the years, they've gradually grown and developed and had a place now in government.

And it's just so tragic now to see what is happening in Lebanon, to see that fragile government, where the country was beginning to pull together in some form of unity, now being totally smashed.

PHILLIPS: And I want to talk about the fact that they are a part of the legitimate government in just a second. But just to go back to when they captured you, give our viewers a sense for how you lived, how they fed you. Did they talk to you? Describe your conditions for us.

WAITE: Well, I, myself, was kept in solitary confinement for four years. I slept on the floor. I was chained to the wall. And I had no contact with the outside world, with my family, at all in that period. It was about four years before I got any news that my family were well and were alive and they got news about me.

So, that implies, as I already said, a very highly disciplined group, who are quite capable of keeping hostages for a very long period of time. Terry Anderson, the American journalist, was kept for seven years, in total security, in the middle of Beirut. So, if they could do that then, they can still do that now.

PHILLIPS: I was reading about how you used Morse Code. Tell me about that. Why, how? What was your train of thought there?

WAITE: Well, I didn't use Morse Code, because you can't differentiate between dot and dash on the wall. What I used to do was tap on the wall, one for A, two or B, three for C, because there were people in the next room to me. You know, when you do that, you regret your name is Terry Waite. It's a long way down the alphabet.

PHILLIPS: Yes, that's a long time to hit the wall, no doubt. I'm glad you keep your sense of humor. But no, go ahead.

WAITE: But then, after about three years of tapping on the wall, I got the taps coming back. And they had a radio next door, and it was then that I got the first news of the outside world. And I heard what had happened. I had news of my family. I heard of the fall of the Berlin Wall. And, amazingly, I heard the end of apartheid. Things that I never expected to see in my lifetime. And that experience gave me a bit of hope. One should never be surprised, the most dreadful situations can change virtually overnight and we can find ourself in a new situation.

PHILLIPS: Wow. These Israeli soldiers now being held captive -- you know, an Israeli soldier versus you, a civilian. Do you think they're being treated the same? Or do you think that the mentality and the treatment is different?

WAITE: People have died in the catfight who have been captured by Hezbollah. There's no doubt about that. They have died in the past. But my experience has been that Hezbollah have treated their prisoners with much greater consideration than we've seen hostages treated in Iraq, where they've been treated with absolute barbarity, brutality and misery. I mean, beheadings, public beheadings.

We haven't seen that with Hezbollah. And I would tend to think that they would be treated with reasonable consideration. Although, I have to say, the killing of so many innocent people in is what is called the collective sort of punishment won't do anything to guarantee security. But I think -- my experience has been that they treat with reasonable consideration.

PHILLIPS: Well, know what it's like to try to negotiate with these types of individuals. Do you think that is even possible here? You and I were talking about just the basis of trust is so important for negotiation, and that trust factor is lost.

WAITE: Well, you know, we're dealing with a region that's full of injustices. Israel has a right to security. The Palestinians have a right to their territory and to a peaceful life. So have the Lebanese. Trust has been broken all around because of injustices perpetrated by all sides.

And I have to say, this latest devastation of the country of Lebanon will actually do nothing to achieve the basis of trust that's necessary for negotiation.

What it will do in the long run -- I can virtually guarantee this -- it will mean that more disaffected young people will, in fact, join the ranks of Hezbollah. In other words, you could say, this devastation, this collective punishment of Lebanon, will act as a mighty recruiting tool for Hezbollah.

And that is very sad because, in the past, it was still only the minority of people who wanted to see the elimination of Israel. The vast majority of people in that region want peace, but feelings now will have been stirred up so much that there's going to be an awful lot of prework to be done to begin to build even a small basis of trust.

PHILLIPS: It's interesting, because when you become so angry, you want to get in the fight and you want to fight back. You went back in 2004. You connected with some of your captors in Hezbollah again, correct? What did you say to them? What did you -- what did they say to you? And do you still keep in contact with some of them?

WAITE: I have -- I went back, as you rightly say, because I have projects running in Israel, in the occupied territories, and in Lebanon. And I have an interest in all that region, for all the people of that region, and I'm working very actively and I have been for a long time. I received indirect contact from, I believe, the people who held me. I never had a face-to-face meeting. And the contact was very, very minimal. It was, in fact, an invitation to meet with them again and to see them. I didn't take it up at that time.

I think now, there is no chance of taking it up. There's no chance of me acting in any way as a negotiator in that situation. What there has to be in that situation, before you can even begin to think in that way, is an immediate end to hostilities. And the only country, really, that has the ability to call Israel off from this terrible business is the United States of America.

And even if it was called off, and when it is called off, because it will be in -- we hope in some days -- even then, the amount of repair work to be done -- I'm not talking about physical repair work, I'm talking about repair of the general atmosphere -- will take a very, very long time, indeed, and doesn't leave much opportunity for honest brokers, humanitarian brokers such as myself.

PHILLIPS: And you made the point, Hezbollah is a part of this legitimate government. I'm just curious, does that make your stomach turn?

WAITE: It doesn't, because Hezbollah has moved and was moving -- put it this way -- from being an organization right on the edge, to becoming part of a legitimate government. We've seen this type of process take place, not perfectly, in northern Ireland. The strategies in northern Ireland -- we tried bombing. We tried fighting.

At the end of the day, to achieve what is still a fragile peace, we had to get people around the table, people with whom we disagreed, sit down and talk and build so much trust in the community that the community itself recognized that they, themselves, had to marginalize the extremists.

Now, exactly the opposite is happening in that region at the moment, and that is a cause to me of a great sadness, and I might say, without being too arrogant, in my view, great foolishness.

PHILLIPS: Terry Waite, you are far from arrogant. You are one amazing human being, and I thank you so much for your time today.

WAITE: Thank you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Back in America, after a terrified week in Lebanon, evacuees begin arriving at the Baltimore airport, and CNN is there. You'll be there, too, when LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: The stocks posted their second best day of the year yesterday, but it doesn't look like we'll get a repeat performance. Susan Lisovicz, what's going on?

(STOCK MARKET REPORT) PHILLIPS: All right. Well, the heat is on, and the pressure is intense. Up next, we're going to head to Liverpool for an update on the first round of the British Open golf tournament.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, the British Open started today and last hour we asked you about the very first one back in 1860, three rounds of golf on a 12-hole course. Any idea who won? Here's the answer. Willie Park, with a score of 174.

The biggest names in golf are feeling the heat this week. The British Open is underway near Liverpool, and the pressure, not to mention, the temperature, is intense. CNN's Patrick Snell is looking for a spot of shade at the Royal Liverpool Golf Club.

Hey, Patrick.

PATRICK SNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kyra.

Yes, finally happy to say we've got it and it's had its effect on the players as well, I have to say, over the last couple of days, the practice days as well.

But world number Tiger Woods, the defending champion here, he has responded very well indeed after starting so poorly on this opening day. He missed a real sitter of a pass on the first green, but the California native came storming back and he ended his round with a superb eagle on the last hole, the 18th. That left him at five under par. Very impressive comeback indeed.

Now, as for his fellow American, Phil Mickelson, the reigning Masters champion, he fired a opening-round 69. That left the player known as Lefty at three under par, a more than decent effort from him and particularly important, given his recent capitulation at the U.S. Open.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL MICKELSON, 2006 MASTERS CHAMPION: It was time to get ready for this tournament, and I don't want to let one bad hole affect the way I play the upcoming majors. I've been playing well and I feel like I'm ready for this tournament and so hopefully the next three rounds, I'll put them together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNELL: So, the two big Americans, the two top contenders, really, for this tournament after a very impressive start indeed. Woods, in fact, now just one shot off the pace at the top of the leaderboard.

Kyra, you hinted at it at the top there, record temperatures, and record crowds as well, we expect, over the next few days. The hottest July on record so far as far as this country's concerned. And I, for one, will certainly not be complaining should the temperatures cool off just a little bit going into the weekend, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: I'm sure those golfers won't complain either. Patrick Snell, thanks so much.

Well, cut off by the conflict, food, water, medicine all in short supply. Now 500,000 Lebanese refugees now homeless. What about them?

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