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Bush Meets with Homeland Security Team; Another Arrest in U.K. Terror Plot; Iranian President Claims Victory for Hezbollah; Refugees Return to Bomb Blasted Homes; Abu Ghraib Whistleblower Shares Story

Aired August 15, 2006 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips at the CNN world headquarter in Atlanta.
Topic, terror, brainstorming and battle plans. The president huddles with his heads of counter terrorism. We'll find out what it means for homeland security.

Iran and Syria, two presidents deliver victory speeches, and their countries weren't even in the war. What's behind the speeches and spin?

Abu Ghraib exposed. No one will forget the pictures. Now for the first time meet the whistle blower. A one-on-one with specialist Joe Darby straight ahead. LIVE FROM starts right now.

Fighting terror in troubled times. President Bush is huddling with his homeland security teams today. They have a lot to talk about. CNN's Kathleen Koch is at the White House -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, the president right now is in the middle of five hours of meetings at this super secret national counterterrorism center in Virginia. And obviously, terrorism foremost on the minds of many people in the world, both in the United States and Great Britain with a foiled terror plot last week.

And pollsters have shown that many Americans are also now, because of that foiled plot, giving high marks to the president for his handling of homeland security. Job approval ratings have risen, as well.

And so while the president might normally this time of year might be in Crawford, Texas, the White House is doing what it can to show that he is engaged, that he is hands on. And so therefore, he's here in Washington, having these meetings this week. And he came out in the middle of the meetings to speak to reporters just a few minutes ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States of America is engaged in a war against a -- extremist group of folks, bound together by an ideology, willing to use terror to achieve their objectives. Our most solemn duty in the American government is to protect the people. And I will assure the American people that we're doing everything in our power to protect you. And we've got some good assets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: It was a veritable who's who in the president's homeland security, counterintelligence team participating in these meetings today. National director of intelligence, John Negroponte, the CIA chief, FBI chief.

During the sessions, White House spokesperson Dana Parino said that the group had been looking at where the U.S. is when it comes to fighting terrorism, how far we've come, from we've learned and what remains to be done.

Now Democrats for their part say these meetings are fine, but obviously the continuing war in Iraq, Afghanistan and the fact that Osama bin Laden is still at large prove that much does remain to be done, and they insist that Republicans have not done a good job of protecting the American public.

Back to you.

PHILLIPS: Well, in Britain, more cancellations and more confusion over airline security rules. Major airports are still struggling to get back to normal after last week's alert. And now a new development. Police have made another arrest.

CNN's Jason Carroll joins us live in London.

What do you know, Jason?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, here's what we can tell you so far from the information that we have gathered.

Police now say that the arrest took place at 12:55 London time. That's just about five hours ago. The person, who has not been identified, was arrested in the Thames Valley area. That's about 20, 30 miles west of London. At this point, as I said, this person has not been identified, but let me just give you more information about what's been happening out here.

As you know, Kyra, 23 people at this point still remain in custody. And actually tomorrow they will be appearing during hearings approximately at that point police will have to present enough evidence to the magistrate in order to be able to keep holding those 23 people already in custody. Now we have 24.

You'll also remember, Kyra, that it was just last Friday that police released one person who had initially been arrested. And police said early on than it would not be unusual at all for some people to be released, more arrests to be made, so is what has happened today.

As I've said, one more person arrested in connection with this terrorist plot to blow up planes bound for the United States -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Some call it a cease-fire, but as far as the president of Iran is concerned the fragile peace in Lebanon is nothing less than a mandate from the almighty.

CNN's Aneesh Raman is the only U.S. network correspondent reporting from Iran. He has more on today's celebration.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, in a speech in the northwestern part of the country to screaming crowds that at one point chanted "Death to the U.S., death to (UNINTELLIGIBLE)" Iran's president claimed victory for Hezbollah, said essentially that resistance would go on and grow stronger.

He was very careful and deliberate to never just blame Israel for what is happening but, in his words, lump in America and the United Kingdom, as well. You get a sense Iran is growing stronger in its stance. Here's a little bit of what he had say today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, PRESIDENT OF IRAN (through translator): America and England and Zionist regime, with all the equipments, all the army they had and they face a group of decent, devout young people. And those young people, by putting their trust in God and believing in God's fulfillment of his promises, stood against them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAMAN: Kyra, just hours before the Iranian president spoke came similar remarks in a rare speech given by his Syrian counterpart, Bashar Assad, also saying that the new plan for a Middle East was dead, peace in the region was dead. Both of these countries have grown closer by the day during this war. Both their leaders, it seems, now feel they are growing stronger, as well -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Aneesh, a bit of a side note, but what do you think about Ahmadinejad and his blog? It's come to my attention. A number of us were talking about this. Why do you think he's doing this? And hasn't he been accused in the past of reprimanding or even torturing people that have blogged or been critical online about the government?

RAMAN: He has. Essentially we're seeing emerge here a tale of two bloggers. The president being one of them, launching over the weekend his own personal weblog. We haven't gotten a sense of exactly how many people are reading it. Nothing dramatically new in what he's written.

He talks about his childhood, about the Iran-Iraq war. There's an online poll about whether the U.S. and Britain are triggering a new war within the region.

But people out on the streets, some of them claim it's merely a publicity stunt. It is, in a way, as the president proclaims for people to enter about directly.

And as you mentioned, there has been increased crackdowns on the Internet in Iran, sites that are block censored. Anything the U.N. or on Iranian resistance, you're forbidden from seeing. Also, more explicit web sites of a sexual nature. And bloggers themselves are critical of the regime hear, say that their freedoms are also being curtailed.

So it could be nothing more than a publicity stunt. But if nothing else, at the moment it's another avenue for Iranians to attempt, at least, to communicate with the president -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Aneesh Raman reporting from Tehran. Thanks, Aneesh.

Well, Iran's not the only country lambasting Israel and lauding Hezbollah. Syria president Bashar Assad is speaking out for the first time since the conflict erupted a month ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASHAR ASSAD, SYRIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Israel is an enemy and does not want peace because peace will impose on Israel to return the Arab lands and rights because this enemy has not changed only to expand and occupy. As far as -- and we have always said peace process is very important and crucial for the United States and for its position as a super power and in connection with others. But they're not in the United States; this administration will adopt the preemptive war and it contradicts the principle of peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Now Assad took a further jab at Washington, saying U.S. plans for the Middle East became an illusion with Hezbollah's rebuff of the powerful Israeli military.

Now they may have escaped the bombing but the war will stay with them. Thousands of Lebanese refugees returning to their bombed out villages, ignoring warnings that they may still in danger.

Our Ben Wedeman followed one family's tragic homecoming. He joins me now from the southern city of Tyre -- Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kyra, the cease-fire does seem to be holding and, as you mentioned, thousands, possibly tens of thousands of people are heading to the south of the country. But in some cases, it is not a happy homecoming.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (voice-over): Four-year-old Ali is going home in the back of the family pickup. At first, he's confused as he stares wide eyed at his village Vitaroun (ph), now in ruins. Then, Ali sees his house.

The Farazad (ph) family had fled to Ceydon (ph) when the Israeli bombardment began. With the cease-fire holding, they were hoping to sleep at home tonight, but that won't be possible.

"We must return, but how? It's all gone," says Ali's father, Ibrahim. Down the street Ali's grandmother, 80-year-old Hosea (ph), struggles up the steps to the ruins of her home.

In a daze, she goes from room to room. She's lived here for decades. "Where am I going to go?" she mutters to herself.

The Alalu (ph) family was luckier. They returned in the morning. Their home took some hits. It's a mess, but not beyond repair.

"As long as we're fine and the children are fine," says Taan Allawi (ph), a shepherd, "then thank God. That's what matters."

The cease-fire has allowed people to come back and others like these workers from the Lebanese Red Cross, to retrieve the dead.

Some of the bodies have clearly been here for a while. Hassan Mansour (ph) shows me where he found the body of his friend, Muhammad Mahouday (ph), a U.S. national. Muhammad (ph) lived alone and died alone, days, perhaps weeks ago, when shrapnel smashed into his living room.

His burial, in the olive grove beneath his house, was fast, the grave shallow. No time for a proper funeral. There are too many more bodies to bury.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN: And, Kyra, another danger that obviously awaits these people is unexploded ordinance. We saw a lot of artillery shells scattered around the towns, the villages, the countryside down there. Already several people have been killed and more wounded from those unexploded ordnance -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, he blew the whistle on Abu Ghraib prison and Iraq. Now two years after turning in those infamous photographs, he's telling his story. Joe Darby, an American soldier, joins me straight ahead on LIVE FROM. We'll talk about why he slept with a pistol under his pillow and why he can't go back to his hometown.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Same target, different city. A truck bomb destroyed part of the headquarters of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan today, this time in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul. Police say at least nine people were killed, 36 wounded. Last week PUK headquarters in Karbala was ransacked. Iraq's president, Jalal Talabani, is a member of that party.

Abu Ghraib, the mere mention brings back horrifying images: Iraqi detainees brutalized and sexually humiliated by U.S. soldiers. At least 11 soldiers have been convicted. And this month the G.I. who blew the whistle on them is getting out of the Army. First, though, and for the first time publicly, he's telling his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS (voice-over): Joe Darby says this was one of the scariest moments of his life.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: There are many who did their duty professionally, and we should mention that, as well. First Specialist Joseph Darby, who alerted the appropriate authorities that abuses were occurring.

PHILLIPS: May 7, 2004, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld made it clear Darby was no longer the anonymous whistleblower, the secret soldier that uncovered the Abu Ghraib photos, photos given to him by Specialist Charles Graner months before.

The images of abuse of Iraqi prisoners made headlines around the world. His sister-in-law praised him.

MAXINE CARROLL, DARBY'S SISTER-IN-LAW: They wasn't surprised that he found the courage to do what he did.

PHILLIPS: But now Darby says his brother no longer speaks to him and his hometown of Cumberland, Maryland, shunned him for turning in his fellow soldiers.

So what happened to those soldiers? General Janis Karpinski, the woman in charge of military prisons, demoted to colonel, even though Darby admitted she did not know about the abuse.

Specialist Charles Graner, the man who inadvertently gave the photos Darby, sentenced to 10 years in prison.

And Private First Class Lynndie England, the woman seen holding a prisoner on a dog leash. She's serving three years.

Then there is Joe Darby. His life after blowing the whistle is forever changed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Joining me now from New York is Specialist Joe Darby.

Joe, I want to start back -- go back to May, that moment Rumsfeld was on national television. You were in the mess hall in Iraq. You blurted out your name. You'll probably never forget that moment. What happened?

SPEC. JOE DARBY, ABU GHRAIB WHISTLEBLOWER: I was sitting having lunch with a -- with a few soldiers. And I just was shocked. I put my food down and the soldiers that were with me said, you know, we need to leave. And we got up and left the dining facility.

PHILLIPS: Did anybody scream anything at you or come after you?

DARBY: No. No one really realized who I was, because most of the soldiers weren't from my unit. But in about probably three hours everyone in the unit, you know, had got a call or an e-mail from home saying that I was the one who had turned them in.

PHILLIPS: Now, do you think Rumsfeld knew you were in Iraq? And do you think he meant to humiliate you? Or do you think he didn't realize what was going on?

DARBY: I just don't think they realized that I was still in Iraq.

PHILLIPS: Wow. So Joe, why did you do it? Why did you turn those pictures in?

DARBY: Because ultimately it was the right thing to do. I had made the decision that something needed to be done after I first found them. It just took me a while to figure out exactly what that was.

PHILLIPS: Now, but you initially thought that some of those pictures were pretty humorous. I think it was the one you said...

DARBY: Just the first.

PHILLIPS: Right? The naked pyramid. I think that was the one that everybody was talking about. You actually saw it and thought it was pretty funny.

DARBY: Well, I didn't realize what I was looking at. It was the first picture I opened. And I didn't realize it was prisoners. I mean, it seems like something that a fraternity stunt would do, you know, a fraternity would pull. So as I went on in the pictures and saw, you know, that it was actually prisoners, I was very appalled.

PHILLIPS: How did you get the CD? How did you get all those pictures?

DARBY: Well, I was working in the cyber cafe in the evenings, and I had asked Charles Graner for pictures of Hilla (ph) and other places we had been around the country so I could download them to my computer so I could, you know, have some record. And when he gave them to me he gave me two CDs. And I burned them to my computer and gave the CDs back. And when I looked at them two days later, one of the CDs contained the photos that I turned in.

PHILLIPS: Do you think he realized what he had given you?

DARBY: I don't think so.

PHILLIPS: Why do you think this happened? I think a lot of people sit back. Those who really don't know the military that well were been in the military and think, wow, you know, a soldier is supposed to stand for dignity and loyalty and self discipline. And that's not what was going on. Why do you think this was an ongoing course of action?

DARBY: Well, I think there was a lack of supervision at the time when the soldiers were at the prison. At that time of day, which was between the hours of like 1 a.m. and 5 a.m. in the morning, there was a lack of supervision from the command over them. So they basically had free rein to do as they wished.

PHILLIPS: But it -- do you think this was a small select group of soldiers or was this an overall understanding, and did everybody... DARBY: No, this was a small, select group of soldiers. No one outside the group was involved, you know, had any idea of what was going on. And the -- if anyone did find out and reported it through the chain of command, the NCOIC or supervisor for the shift was Frederick. So if it got reported to him, it stopped with him.

PHILLIPS: Was anybody else doing this besides soldiers, Joe? Any other government agencies, members of the CIA, anybody else that might have been there doing interrogations?

DARBY: Well, we have what we refer to as OGAs. And we didn't -- you know, I don't know who they worked for. But we did have civilians who were contractors on the installation who did interrogations.

PHILLIPS: But you don't know exactly who they were or what type of...

DARBY: No, I -- I didn't ask. And it wasn't something that we were told.

PHILLIPS: How did you actually -- who did you go to? Who did you trust and did you seek any advice from anybody or did you just see these pictures, you didn't sleep well at night? And...

DARBY: I went to a few soldiers who I trusted, and I didn't ask them directly about the pictures or show them the pictures. I was more obscure with the question, you know, what would you do if?

When I went to my mentor, who was an NCO I'd known for a very long period of time. And that's, you know, I was trying to find out where to go. I knew something had to be done, but I needed to figure out what had to be done and, you know, who do I take it to? Do I take it to my commander where it might get, you know, covered up because they were negligent? Or do I take it higher?

PHILLIPS: So who was it that you went to? And did that person protect you properly?

DARBY: I took the pictures to CID, the Criminal Investigation Division of the Army. And I tried to remain anonymous. I put the letter -- letter in an unmarked envelope and dropped it off at their office and told them I didn't know where it came from.

And eventually they found out that I had been the one to give them the envelope. They did tell me that they would keep my, you know, my identity as secret as possible. I would have to testify at the trials. But other than that, you know, only people who needed to know would know that I was involved.

PHILLIPS: Is it true that when you were in that room actually naming names, that those individuals started coming down the hallway, and you immediately had to be protected? Was it really that disorganized?

DARBY: Yes. What had happened was I was doing a statement. And one of the other agents went out to pick up the people to be questioned who were in the photos. And he had gotten back sooner than we had hoped. And there was -- they were standing at the entrance next to the room that I was in. And I had to get around them to get out of the building.

So they had to cover me up with blankets and rushed me out the back door past these -- the individuals, completely covered in blankets to try to protect my identity.

PHILLIPS: Now, when you first arrived, you talk about having a tour of this facility. And already you were witnessing actions that didn't seem right. There were a number of Iraqi prisoners lined up in women's underwear. Is that right?

DARBY: Right. They were in individual cells by themselves, but they were wearing women's underwear. We were told by the unit we were replacing that it was for punishment for mortaring the compound, the Abu Ghraib Prison compound.

PHILLIPS: So at that moment did you realize, "Hmm, I wonder if this is the way we're supposed to operate or if this is just standard operating procedure in this sort of bizarre type of war with insurgents we don't really know how to combat and we need information?"

What was going through your head initially when you first saw that something might not really be the proper course of action?

DARBY: Yes, it was questionable and I did think about it. But, you know, they were in solitary cells, and they weren't out in the public and no one saw them, you know, as far as other guards or other inmates. So I kind of just like brushed it to the side because I wasn't working in the prison. So it was just, you know, a one-day tour and then I went to my job in operations.

PHILLIPS: Joe, stay with me. We want to continue this interview straight ahead. I'm going to ask you what life has been like now after so many people have turned against you. We want to talk some more about what it's like. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Abu Ghraib, the mere mention brings back horrifying memories: Iraqi detainees brutalized and sexually humiliated by U.S. soldiers. At least 11 soldiers have now been convicted. And joining me once again, the G.I. who blew the whistle, Specialist Joe Darby.

Joe, there's a couple of pictures I wanted to ask you about specifically. The two, one of Charles Graner, one of Sabrina Harmon next to this body that appears to be a dead body with the thumbs up. Now I understand this was a dead body. Can you tell me what happened to this prisoner?

DARBY: I wasn't on duty that night. But the accounts I was briefed on when I came to duty were that an agency, another government agency, had came in in the middle of the night and used our facility. They came in by helicopter and took up residence to use one of the shower rooms in Tier One where the military intelligence holds were.

They interrogated him for two hours, and when they were finished he was dead. They said by a heart attack. And they asked for a body bag and ice and packed him in ice in the body bag. And they left and left the body there for us to deal with.

PHILLIPS: After all of this that had happened, do you feel you got anything out of these prisoners, any kind of intel on terrorist activity?

DARBY: Well, the thing about this is it wasn't being done for interrogation. The interrogators, when they actually wanted to speak to the prisoners, would come take them out of the tier and to a facility that they had where they sat down and talked to them. There was -- the abuse wasn't being done for any kind of intelligence value at all.

PHILLIPS: So did the prisoners ever say anything to you or any of the other soldiers, Joe, and beg you to stop treating them that way or ask why they were being treated a certain way?

DARBY: Well, see, I had very little interaction with the prisoners. I worked in an operations section. I very seldom, unless it was absolutely necessary, went into the actual place where the prisoners were held. So I never had an experience of that, no.

PHILLIPS: Do you have any regrets?

DARBY: No. None whatsoever.

PHILLIPS: Do you see yourself as a traitor?

DARBY: No.

PHILLIPS: Would you do it again?

DARBY: Yes, I would.

PHILLIPS: You wouldn't change anything?

DARBY: No. It was the right thing to do, and it needed to be done.

PHILLIPS: Who's turned against you? I understand you can't even go back to your hometown.

DARBY: When I first got home I was told that I couldn't. A lot of the people in my hometown didn't understand, and they didn't see right and wrong. They saw Americans going to prison for Iraqis. And they didn't agree with it.

PHILLIPS: What about now?

DARBY: I haven't been back since. I don't know.

PHILLIPS: What about family members? DARBY: I've had a few family members who've called me a traitor, and I just don't associate with them anymore.

PHILLIPS: How is everything at home? Your wife, your kids, is that all right?

DARBY: Everything's wonderful at home, yes. I've made a new life for myself somewhere else.

PHILLIPS: What's next for you?

DARBY: I have two weeks left in the military, and I have a job as a contractor lined up for when I'm finished.

PHILLIPS: Do you have any regrets about joining the military?

DARBY: No, none at all.

PHILLIPS: Has Donald Rumsfeld ever called you personally and had a conversation with you?

DARBY: No. I've never spoken with the secretary of defense.

PHILLIPS: What about any of your commanding officers?

DARBY: The commander officers that I've had since I returned from Iraq, you know, have been very supportive in about everything that I did. But I haven't spoke with any of my commanding officers from Iraq.

PHILLIPS: So, Joe, is there anything that happened at Abu Ghraib that we don't know about?

DARBY: Not that I know of, no.

PHILLIPS: You have revealed everything that you know to this point?

DARBY: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Do you think everybody that was involved has been properly taken care of?

DARBY: For the most part, yes. You know, I had thought that some of the sentences, like Charles Graner's sentence, would be longer. And you know, there were some -- like Jeremy Sivits got a year, and he was the only one willing to admit that he had done wrong, and his involvement was minuscule, you know, but they all got what they deserved, yes.

PHILLIPS: Joe, do you find it bizarre in any way that you were the only one that wanted to come forward and say something?

DARBY: You know, I can speculate if others knew, but I don't know for a fact. So, you know, I just hope that if someone would have got the pictures before me, they would have done the same thing. PHILLIPS: Do you believe in Operation Iraqi Freedom?

DARBY: Yes, I do.

PHILLIPS: Specialist Joe Darby, sure appreciate your time today.

DARBY: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, you can hear more from Joe Darby tonight on "ANDERSON COOPER 360. That's at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN. You can also read more about what he went through in the September issue of "Gentlemen's Quarterly."

Lebanese troops will be heading south soon, not to fight, they hope, but to try and keep the peace. Joining them, a flood of refugees facing a slow and dangerous trek back to homes they may or may not -- well, may not even be there.

Let's get more from Beirut bureau chief Brent Sadler.

Brent, what have you seen?

BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF: Hello, Kyra.

Countless, tens of thousands of Lebanese, displaced by more than a month of war from South Lebanon now crawling their way back to their communities ail along the board we're Israel and further in.

What I have to report is that this journey is frustrating and perilous to these people. Why? A number of reasons. Primarily, roads they would normally use are no longer there. Bridges they would normally use have been destroyed by aircraft attacks and by shelling.

In addition to that, if that's not enough, unexploded bombs litter the highways and byways. Yet they are still moving southward despite warnings from Israeli's military that they should not try to go back home until after deployment of Lebanese and international troops under the U.N.

I saw one extraordinary seen on the Litani River in one sector there are no bridges at all, people driving their vehicles through about three feet of water. Many vehicles simply not being able to make it, sputtering to a halt. I saw one woman using her shoes to bail out water from the back of the car as the vehicle slowly sunk into the riverbed.

Elsewhere, Lebanese Red Cross workers have been able to get to places in villages badly damaged by Israel's initial onslaught against Hezbollah strongholds. They've been there to carry on the grim task of recovering bodies.

I saw a number of bodies four, two men, two women, collected by the Red Cross workers, killed in the crossfire, they said, when Israeli troops stormed their village and was faced by fierce Hezbollah resistance -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: Brent, I think a lot of people are asking, will Hezbollah disarm? Will all these people be safe heading back home? And will the rocket fire stop?

DARBY: The rocket fire has certainly stopped into Northern Israel, and Israel's heavy offensive action against Lebanese targets, including infrastructure and so on, has also stopped.

That's been enough to persuade the mostly Muslim Shia communities of South Lebanon after what their leader said, Hassan Nasrallah, the chief of Hezbollah, that essentially this was a Hezbollah victory, that they feel it's over. If their chief telling the them that, they will go home, regardless of what they find when they get there.

We can confirm, according to sources within the Defense Ministry here, Kyra, that we should see a deployment south, by no means all of the way south, but at least partially south, in about 24 hours from now, the first phase of a deployment that should help stabilize that area. But it's still very dangerous, it feels like it down there, and certainly a lot of uncertainty about what life is going to be like in the days and weeks ahead -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Brent Sadler in Beirut. Thanks, Brent.

Five years on and Osama bin Laden is still public enemy No. 1. But is he still calling the shots in al Qaeda? I'll talk with a man who's met with bin Laden face to face, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, inspires devotion, revulsion, suspicion and confusion. Almost five years after the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden may well remain the world's biggest mystery.

CNN terrorism analyst, Peter Bergen, is one of the few Western journalists ever to get access to him. Peter is also part of a "CNN PRESENTS" special investigation that's going to air Wednesday night, august 23rd. We'll talk more about that in a minute. And I know we have clips, Peter.

But first of all, I want to get your reaction to the U.K. terror plot, and do you think Osama bin Laden in any way is calling the shots in attempts like these?

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, I think very possibly. We know that the July 7th, 2005 terror plot in London, which killed 56, was implemented, it seems now, by the highest levels of al Qaeda.

One of the suicide attackers in the London plot of July 7th, 2005 appeared on a tape with al Qaeda's No. 2, or at least they appeared on a tape that was spliced together.

We still don't know a lot of things about the London attack, but it seems already that we -- CNN is reporting that a couple of the suspects met with an al Qaeda operative in Pakistan. Money transfers came from Pakistan. And I think as we know more we will find out that the leaders of this plan hooked up with al Qaeda, got the training necessary to make liquid explosives, got the training necessary to run some sort of clandestine operation, and hoped that this operation would be a way of their very unpleasant celebration of the fifth anniversary of 9/11.

PHILLIPS: And just the fact, all this time since 9/11, I think a lot of people were really paying attention to the fact that one of the suspects, possibly more, actually were working at Heathrow Airport. You think of all the money and all the attention that goes toward airport security, I think that shocked a lot of people.

BERGEN: Yes, but I mean, you know, as you know, Kyra, there have been many mistakes have been made. You may remember Richard Reid, the so-called shoe bomber. He was initially turned away from an American Airlines flight between Paris and Miami and then the next day he was let back on.

So, you know, I mean, there's plenty of mistakes that have been made all around. But I mean, I think the biggest story of course is that this plot was averted. It was a tremendous success. U.K. authorities working with Pakistani authorities and informing their U.S. colleagues.

And I don't think they have a plan B. They may have, you know, a very small plan B, but they don't have anything the size of this. This required a year at least of preparation. We've now got 24 people in custody, a number of people in custody in Pakistan. This is not the sort of operation that I think they'll easily recover from. And I expect that the al Qaeda response to all of this will be deafening silence because this was a big failure for them.

PHILLIPS: Let's take a look at a clip from the CNN special that is going to air in the "In the Footsteps of bin Laden." I want to get your response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Monica Elaroud (ph), a devout Muslim who had emigrated from Morocco as a child was living in Belgium when she first saw Osama bin Laden on television. His image mesmerized her and her husband, Abdu Sadr Dagman (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): He was watching. There was a fascination, a love. It was very clear and I felt the same. Osama had a beauty in his face. It is a stunning face.

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PHILLIPS: What are we going to see in this investigation that we haven't seen before, Peter?

BERGEN: Well, I mean, we're going to talk, we're going to see a lot of people that haven't really spoken on television about their relationship with bin Laden. As for instance, Agu Hali Batafe (ph), who is bin Laden's childhood soccer playing chum, probably his best friend when they were teenagers, who describes a rather unremarkable guy who liked Bruce Lee movies and watched westerns at the same time was hyper religious.

We meet bin Laden's brother-in-law and university chum, Jamal Khalifa, who was arguably bin Laden's closest friend when they were in their 20s who talks about his relationship with bin Laden. And we meet with other people, who some people like myself, who just had one chance encounter with bin Laden. Others who have known bin Laden for many years.

PHILLIPS: Can you get him again? Have you tried?

BERGEN: I think that would be a life-threatening -- that would be life-threatening for all sorts of reasons. I mean, I don't think -- also bin Laden's not talking to any outsiders. Even when we met with him in '97, these guys were very paranoid and secretive. That's all the more so now. They would not take the risk of meeting with any journalist, even, I think, journalists from Pakistan or from the Middle East, which they were willing to do even in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. I think even that wouldn't do now.

PHILLIPS: Peter Bergen, thanks for your time.

BERGEN: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: And more, I guess, now more than ever you need to know your enemy, right? So you can join us Wednesday night August 23rd for a special "CNN PRESENTS: In The Footsteps of bin Laden." It is a "CNN PRESENTS," a special investigation. Our team traveled to four continents, 10 countries, to discover the real Osama bin Laden and his power over legions of drones, whose do his deadly bidding. Wednesday night, August 23rd, nine Eastern only on CNN.

Well a minister shot to death, his wife accused of murder, but freed from jail, at least temporarily. The latest on Mary Winkler, coming up on LIVE FROM.

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PHILLIPS: Close to the one-year anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, news already breaking about insurance deals. Betty Nguyen with the deals on the breaking story.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're just getting this in. The "Associated Press" reports, Kyra, that there has been a decision in the first legal test of this wind versus water debate that has surrounded many of the claims on insurance companies following Hurricane Katrina.

Well, today a federal judge ruled in favor of an insurer, saying its policy clearly excludes flood damage to Gulf Coast customers, especially this one in particular. Lieutenant Paul Leonard, a police officer in Mississippi, sued his insurance company Nationwide, saying that their insurance agent assured them that they didn't need flood insurance for the home because their policy would cover all hurricane damage.

Well, today, a federal judge ruled in favor of the insurer that it doesn't include flood damage. And this is important, Kyra, because it could set a precedent for hundreds of other couples, families, claiming flood damage on their insurance and many of them are still waiting trial.

This the first one. So again, the first legal test of the wind versus water debate. And today a federal judge rules in favor of the insurance company, saying that it clearly excludes flood damage to a Gulf Coast couple's home and so they are denied. We'll see how it plays out with the other ones, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, thanks, Betty.

Well free for now, Mary Winkler accused of killing her minister husband back in March and fleeing Tennessee with their children. She left a county jail just minutes ago, having met the terms of a $750,000 bond. Our Rusty Dornin joins me now with more on this breaking story. I think the jaw dropper here is the fact that she's out.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. A lot of people are surprised by this, Kyra. But she, according to Tennessee law, she was eligible to be out on bond and her family did make the $750,000 bond. She did walk out in the arms of her attorneys.

As you can see, she's grasping their hands very tightly. Always when she's in court, you see her with her head downcast. Sometimes her eyes closed. They brought her to the podium, she never looked up. Her attorney Steve Farese told reporters what's in her short-term future.

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STEVE FARESE, MARY WINKLER'S ATTORNEY: Mary Winkler was released today on bond after an arduous effort on our part. She has been incarcerated, as you all know, since approximately March 23rd. She will travel to the home where she's staying in McMinnville, Tennessee. She will have a job there. We would ask specifically of all the press, not just the press here today, but the magazines, newspapers, national press to please respect their privacy as they have respected the privacy of the Winkler family. She has some acclimating to do on being on the outside world and she needs as little interference as possible.

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DORNIN: As part of that acclimation, they say she will have a job. She'll be staying with a church friend in McMinnville, Tennessee and she will also have a job at a dry cleaners. Now when I spoke to her attorney shortly before she was released as she was signing papers, he told me she has great anticipation but she's very apprehensive and is glad that she is looking forward to things like carrying a purse. In the future of course, she has only seen her children once since she was arrested on March 23rd. And it's going to be interesting to see just how all of this plays out before her trial in October.

PHILLIPS: Will she get a chance to see the kids? Will she be allowed to see her children? And is she totally on her own, nobody watching over her?

DORNIN: No, there's a lot of restrictions. She's staying with that friend in McMinnville, Tennessee. She's only allowed to travel to go see her attorneys in Memphis or to see her children. Now, her attorneys are working with the Winkler family to try to plan some kind of meetings, even phone calls where she can talk to the children, that sort of thing, and also see them face to face. They say that's one of the things they're going to be working hard on.

PHILLIPS: Rusty Dornin. It will be interesting to follow. Thanks.

Well, Bill Gates. The name means a lot of things to a lot of people, but the entrepreneur-turned-philanthropist is on the forefront in the fight against AIDS. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta tells us how infected women could benefit.

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PHILLIPS: Now the fight against AIDS. Around the world, 6,000 women are thought to be infected with HIV every day. Many of those have little means to protect themselves, but help could be on the way.

Our senior medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, reports.

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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Sacubi's (ph) story can be hard to hear. She says she was sold into sex work by her family at age 15 and she spent the last 20 years as a prostitute in Mumbai, India.

Health-wise, she's been relatively fortunate. She is still HIV- negative, but she also lives in a world where she has to convince her partners to use a condom.

Life may soon change for Sacubi and many other women around the world. Sacubi has just found a couple of strong, new advocates. In fact, they're two of the richest people in the world, Bill and Melinda Gates, who are using the huge platform of the international AIDS conference in Toronto to talk about and fund what they believe is the most recent and biggest development in the fight against AIDS, microbicides.

BILL GATES, GATES FOUNDATION: We believe that microbicides and oral prevention drugs can be the next big breakthrough in the fight against AIDS.

GUPTA: Now, microbicides is just a fancy name for gels or creams a woman can insert to block HIV infection. Large studies of their effectiveness are expected out next year. DR. ZEDA ROSENBERG, INTERNATIONAL PARTNERSHIP FOR MICROBICIDES: If they're 30 percent effective, depending on how many women actually use it and how quickly it gets rolled out, but you could save several millions of lives in the first three years.

GUPTA: And already, newer, exciting products are being developed. One clever idea, make these gels out of medicines now used to treat HIV. One of the most intriguing is a drug called Tenofovir.

DR. JUSTINE JUSTMAN, COLUMBIA SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Using Tenofovir as a microbicide is a really interesting idea. As you probably already know, Tenofovir is now used as a pill, and it's part of the cocktail that patients with HIV take as part of their treatment.

GUPTA: And elsewhere, other researchers are testing the same medicine, Tenofovir, and some other drugs in a pill form to see if women who aren't infected can stay that way by taking a pill before sex.

Although the research on all of these approaches is still in the early stages, it's also steps closer to give control back to women, like Sacubi, keeping them from getting infected with HIV.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

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PHILLIPS: Well, it's called the most dangerous two miles in America. Where it is and why it's so tough to secure, straight ahead on CNN.

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PHILLIPS: Safer, but not yet safe. President Bush's view of America after meeting with his homeland security teams at the National Counterterrorism Center in Virginia. He's saluting the center's role in helping bust an alleged plot to blow up airliners over the atlantic.

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GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because of the work being done here by some really fine Americans from different agencies in our government, America is safer than it has been. But it's not yet safe. The enemy has got an advantage when it comes to attacking our homeland. They got to be right one time, and we got to be right 100 percent of the time to protect the American people.

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PHILLIPS: The Counterterrorism Center encompasses hundreds of experts and more than two dozen computer networks. It expends, in the president's words, an incredible amount of time, energy and effort.

Shoe scans are now a mandatory part of airport security, but do they actually make flying safer? The Associated Press obtained a 16- month-old Homeland Security report that found that X-ray machines don't even detect explosives hidden in shoes. But the TSA says screening pumps and sneakers is still crucial. A spokeswoman says that screeners can see whether shoes have been tampered with. We do expect a briefing from the TSA this hour. We'll bring it to live as soon it happens.

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