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Roswell, Georgia, Police Comment on Ramsey Case; Tension Remains in Lebanon; Probation for Mel Gibson
Aired August 17, 2006 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: An American in Bangkok, is he the key to a 10-year-old murder case? Nobody is saying much about the explosive developments in the murder of JonBenet Ramsey in 1996, but here's what we do know right now.
John Mark Karr, arrested early yesterday in Bangkok, will be expelled from Thailand and brought to the U.S. Boulder, Colorado, district attorney Mary Lacy won't say what charges he'll face, but in a news conference you may have seen live right here on CNN, Lacy did imply the arrest came now for public safety reasons. Karr just began a job teaching second graders at a Bangkok school on Tuesday.
Now, police in Thailand announced the arrest of John Mark Karr and led him into a throng of reporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: We're from the Associated Press. Can you just give us a brief statement, please?
QUESTION: Are you innocent?
JOHN MARK KARR, SUSPECT: I love JonBenet and she died accidentally.
QUESTION: Are you an innocent man? Are you an innocent man?
KARR: No.
QUESTION: What happened?
KARR: Her death was -- was an accident.
QUESTION: So you were in the basement?
KARR: Yes.
QUESTION: Can you tell us about your connection to the Ramsey family?
KARR: No comment.
QUESTION: How did -- how did you get into the basement?
KARR: No comment.
QUESTION: And how do you feel now? How are you being treated?
KARR: I'm being treated OK.
QUESTION: How long had you known JonBenet?
KARR: No comment on that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Session, confession, and now confusion. Has the 10- year-old murder of JonBenet Ramsey finally been solved? Not so fast. Even JonBenet's father is warning everybody not to get ahead of the legal process.
Ed Lavandera is in Boulder, Colorado, where a cold case is hot news once again -- Ed.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.
You know, with this very public and very sensational confession in Thailand, authorities here much more calm, much more timid in their words about John Karr. And so kind of the process here has begun now of trying to, if you will, poke holes in John Karr's story. A couple things that observers here will be looking for.
Kyra, toss it back to you, I'm told.
PHILLIPS: Ed, we'll get back to you in a second. We want you to hear this as well.
Straight to Roswell, Georgia. Police news conference on this case. Let's listen in.
SGT. JAMES MCGEE, ROSWELL, GA., POLICE DEPT.: The reason for this news conference is that we wanted to give you the information and involvement that Roswell has. I must caution you that this is still a fluid investigation, so our information is going to be cursory. We're not going to get into any details of the investigation, and indeed not anything that could be evidentiary in the investigation.
I would like to start off making a comment. After the comments we will throw it out for any questions you may have, and we'll try to answer those questions as thoroughly as thoroughly as we can. But again, remember, anything that has to do with an evidentiary nature of this investigation we will not be able to comment on.
In May of 2006, our agency was contacted by the Boulder District Attorney's Office wanting assistance in the investigation of the JonBenet murder case. We without hesitation said yes.
We have assisted Boulder in the past with footwork and facilitated them when they came to our agency to further their investigation. Our involvement was strictly technical in nature. And that's the only part that we cannot get into, as to what that technicality is. Also mentioned out in Boulder was Sergeant Cameron Roe. Basically, he was the lead investigator from our agency that assisted the FBI in furthering the investigation of this case.
Do we have any questions at this time?
QUESTION: How long were you involved in this? Is it something that took hours, days, weeks, months?
MCGEE: It took months. Like I say, we were first contacted back in May. And that's when we started our assistance to Boulder, Colorado.
QUESTION: What is Sergeant Cameron Roe's position with the department?
MCGEE: Sergeant Cameron Roe is a supervisor on the day watch of CID, which is Criminal Investigation Division. Sergeant Roe also has various expertise and been involved in several other endeavors with the Roswell Police Department in an investigative nature.
QUESTION: Why would they need your assistance? Why was this not something the investigators in Colorado could investigate themselves?
MCGEE: Well, they had confidence in our department. Also, the expertise that Cameron Roe possesses would avail (ph) them very well in the furtherance of their investigation.
QUESTION: What is that expertise?
MCGEE: We can't really comment on what the furtherance of that investigation is. Also, Special Agent Emmitt (ph) will be commenting further on any assistance that we were giving.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, my name is Special Agent Steven Emmitt, spokesperson for the Atlanta field office FBI. And I just want to emphasize the FBI's role in conjunction with the Roswell Police Department in this investigation.
It was simply to fully identify this individual and locate him. And we have in fact done that.
QUESTION: How could you tell how important the information that your agency and Roswell was in -- seemingly (OFF-MIKE)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I will comment on that by stating that we had to fully identify the individual and locate him. And as a result of that, the authorities in Thailand apprehended him and are bringing him back to Boulder.
So I would say, based on that, it was critical to the investigation. But, again, that was our role, in conjunction with the Roswell Police Department, to fully identify him and to locate him.
QUESTION: Did that identification process, does that involve the e-mail he was sending to a professor in Colorado or any other people connected with the family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not going to get into any of the substance of the case. We're going toss that back to the Boulder authorities. And, again, our point today is to emphasize what our role was.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's correct.
QUESTION: Was the agent that you had involved -- the agent that you had involved, it's well known in this area that he's a computer expert. Can you -- and this agent was named by name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct. In the Boulder press conference, Special Agent Steve Paganucci (ph) of our Atlanta field office was mentioned. He was a primary part of this investigation here in the Atlanta area. And, yes, as you stated, he comes with a wealth of knowledge regarding computers and technical issues.
QUESTION: What is his name again?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Steve Paganucci.
QUESTION: Is he still head of the (INAUDIBLE) task force?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's the coordinator of our field office's Safe Child Task Force.
QUESTION: What kind of information is available regarding Karr's (INAUDIBLE)? Was he born here? How long did he live here?
MCGEE: Excuse me, repeat that.
QUESTION: In terms of Karr's living here in Atlanta or in Georgia, how long was he here? Where did he live? Was he married here? What kind of information is available regarding his background?
MCGEE: We don't have much of that information, and if we did we really couldn't comment on it. Again, this is Boulder's case, but it's well known they put him in the Conyers area. And that's the only information that we know at the time.
QUESTION: And how long did he live here?
MCGEE: We don't have any idea.
QUESTION: Why the connection to Roswell again, if you can clarify?
MCGEE: Well, it's a special connection. The Ramseys live up in this area. Sisters still live in this area. So it was a natural progression to start somewhere here.
QUESTION: Does Sergeant Cameron (ph) work with the Safe Child Task Force in the FBI, unrelated to this case? CHIEF ED WILLIAMS, ROSWELL, GEORGIA: Sergeant Roe was assigned to the Innocent Images Task Force (ph) some time back, and he's been back with the department as a supervisor here in the criminal investigation division now for a couple of years, I guess.
QUESTION: Chief, I would just like to ask you...
WILLIAMS: Yes?
QUESTION: ... what would you tell the citizens of Roswell, you know, who -- that may be wondering if there is a connection with this guy with the Ramseys who works through (ph) this city?
WILLIAMS: Well, you probably remember that we've been involved -- the Roswell Police Department has been involved in this case really since 1996. And we have been a willing partner with Boulder authorities since then.
We have given them, as the sergeant mentioned, logistical support. We helped do some footwork for them, run down some leads, those sorts of things. So, it's only, as the sergeant said, a natural progression that they would call us up about something that we could help out with here.
And the technical assistance that was needed was -- was also in the area here. So we were able to provide that through Sergeant Roe's expertise.
QUESTION: Did your past investigations -- Chief, in your past investigations, when you assisted the Boulder County Police Department, had the name John Karr ever come up to you? Prior to this investigation, was that name familiar to you?
WILLIAMS: It was never familiar to me, no. I'm not speaking for Boulder, or even for Sergeant Roe. But, no, it wasn't -- I was not familiar with that individual until recently.
Sir?
QUESTION: Did you ever think this day would come?
WILLIAMS: Yes, I did, actually.
QUESTION: And now that it's here?
WILLIAMS: Well, now that it's here we get it into the criminal justice system and see what happens from there. I think it's -- it's -- if law enforcement agencies continue to work together, as has been demonstrated in this case, you've got local agencies out in Boulder, you've got the local agencies here in Roswell, you've got federal agencies, the FBI, of course, was very instrumental, and any time we all work together and stay focused on a case, yes, I think it's -- it always brings it to a good resolution.
QUESTION: Chief, did John Karr ever make contact with JonBenet's grandparents here in Roswell? WILLIAMS: I couldn't comment on any of the substance of the case. And I'm sorry for that. I apologize.
I know that the public is very interested and hungry for information. This has been a case that has held everyone's attention, even across the world, for 10 years. But please bear with us. This is a function of criminal justice in the United States.
We cannot let the information out prematurely. The information that the public seeks and has a right to know will come out through the regular judicial process. And I'm sorry we can't do that now. We can't -- we can't help you there.
QUESTION: Chief, is the involvement of Sergeant Roe something that's going to require you to spend some time out in Boulder, Colorado, testifying or further assisting the investigation?
WILLIAMS: It may very well. And we'd be happy to let him do that, of course.
QUESTION: Can you tell us when you were able to identify -- when you were able to locate him?
WILLIAMS: The suspect?
QUESTION: Yes.
WILLIAMS: I better not go into any -- any detail of the substance of the case. Like I say, I know that everyone is really interested in these -- in these details, but it's not something we're at liberty to release.
QUESTION: But was it recently -- was it within the past week?
WILLIAMS: Well, all I can do is talk in terms of what we here in Roswell have done. We were invited to assist in this phase of the investigation back in May.
QUESTION: Is it safe to say without you all they wouldn't have found this guy?
WILLIAMS: Well, no. I mean, I think our cooperation, you know, with Boulder and with the other federal agencies was instrumental, certainly, but it would be -- it would be a big stretch to say they would never have been able to do it. No, that's a stretch.
QUESTION: But you all...
WILLIAMS: We had the -- we had the resources. We had the assets. We don't possess the only resource in the world and -- to do this.
So it was our opportunity to do so. We were happy to help them. And as I say, we have had a 10-year relationship with the authorities out there. So it was just natural for them to ask if we could help. QUESTION: This is teetering on the brink of you talking about evidence in the case, but the thing I'm really curious about, was your involvement asked because there was a physical reason here in Roswell for your sergeant to look into this? Or is it simply just his expertise?
WILLIAMS: Well, it's both. There were some leads here. Like I say, we have been helping them, assisting them in running down leads for 10 years off and on. And certainly Sergeant Roe has the expertise...
QUESTION: And there were some of those leads that he needed effected that were physically in this area?
WILLIAMS: None of the leads were -- were in this area. It's just the location was convenient. And that's -- you know, I'd really like to go into more detail, but we just can't do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple of more questions and then we're going to cut it off.
WILLIAMS: This lady has been patient.
QUESTION: Did John Karr have a criminal record here in Georgia?
WILLIAMS: Not to my knowledge.
QUESTION: How were you informed of the arrest? Who informed you? How were you informed?
WILLIAMS: I was informed through the process here in the police department, our staff told me personally.
QUESTION: Did you know how Roswell (INAUDIBLE)?
MCGEE: Well, again, you know, we have close ties with Boulder, of course. Then we were notified that this was going to happen. And once we were notified, of course, we were notified our boss here as to what was going on. So we've had communication all along in the course of this case.
QUESTION: Once again, Sergeant Cameron Roe? Is that correct?
MCGEE: Yes.
QUESTION: The spelling R-O-E?
MCGEE: R-O-E.
QUESTION: And what is his position again with the police department here?
WILLIAMS: He's a sergeant. He's a detective sergeant in the criminal investigation division.
QUESTION: And the other agent was Steve Paganucci? MCGEE: Yes.
QUESTION: So it was those two who were crucial in helping find this individual?
WILLIAMS: Those -- those are the people.
QUESTION: OK. Just making sure.
PHILLIPS: We've been watching a lot of news conference throughout the day, but not getting a lot of details. Various people coming to the mic here in Roswell, Georgia, the police chief, the sergeant, a member of the FBI. We also went to a news conference with the DA in Boulder, Colorado.
Everybody talking about the suspect, John Mark Karr, but not giving any details to what really led to this arrest and what they know about this suspect. We've been doing our own digging. We can tell you more about what we know to this point in just a second.
But there out of Roswell, the only connection that we can tell you about is that John Mark Karr's brother, Nate Karr (ph), lives here in the Atlanta area in Sandy Springs, Georgia. Also, as you know, Patsy Ramsey's sister and father lives here in the Atlanta, Georgia, area.
So there is a connection among these various families, and that's why the Roswell Police Department has been involved and is assisting Boulder police in some way. Really didn't get into details. Said there aren't any leads in this area, but obviously you can see the connections through the various families involved in this case.
Let's get back to Ed Lavandera. He's in Boulder, Colorado. He's been trying to work details as well.
You know, and we know some about this man and some of his past history, connected to pornography and concerns about how he was with children in school as a substitute teacher, Ed. But also, a lot of people are asking the question, do you think he's for real? Is he just making this up, or is he really involved?
LAVANDERA: Well, you know, the prosecutors this morning were given every opportunity to come out and say, look, we've got our man, this is who we think did it, and they didn't -- didn't say that. Just the opposite. They were very cautious about everything, and that has prompted just many more questions about what John Karr is saying.
You know, there are a lot of things to look into. And as you mentioned, we are digging into his story. And a couple of things I think we need to point out that we're probably looking into.
Remember, there was a ransom note left at the crime scene. A handwriting sample from John Karr will inevitably need to be made to test and compare his handwriting sample to that of the note. DNA from the crime scene, we don't know if any of these tests have been done, or if they haven't been done they probably will be done. Is there some sort of DNA connection, as well?
But one -- one point that we've been able to kind of elaborate on a little bit in some of our reporting that CNN producers and the team have been doing here over the last couple of hours is that a police general in Thailand tells CNN that he had been told by an American investigator that John Karr admitted to drugging and then having sex with JonBenet Ramsey before accidentally -- "accidentally" -- killing her.
If you look back at the autopsy report of JonBenet Ramsey, that report says that there were no signs of drug or alcohol in her system. So, if that is indeed what John Karr has told investigators so far, it seems like a point that might become a contentious point at some point.
But despite all of this, prosecutors here similar to what you heard from Roswell, Georgia, prosecutors here a short while ago saying the exact same thing, that the arrest of John Karr is simply that, just an arrest, and that the investigation continues.
PHILLIPS: Still a lot of questions.
Ed Lavandera, thanks.
Here's a little more about what we do know about John Mark Karr.
He's 41 years old. He's a school teacher that grew up in Georgia and Alabama. He's divorced with three children.
Karr taught at an elementary school in Petaluma, California, for several months in 2000 and 2001. An online resume attributed to Karr claims that he later worked in Honduras, Costa Rica, South Korea, Germany, and the Netherlands.
He was arrested in California in 2001 on child pornography charges. He apparently fled the country while he was out on bail.
Now, we've heard from the D.A., the police, and relatives of both the victim and the suspect. Now a journalism professor at the University of Colorado is also talking.
CNN's Rusty Dornin joins me with the role that the professor played in the arrest of John Karr.
This is -- really just adds to the intrigue, doesn't it?
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, once again, he's not saying a whole lot. Some of the things we do know now is that John Karr had some kind of obsession with the JonBenet Ramsey case for a long time, and also with the Polly Klaas case, which was in Petaluma, much earlier than when he lived there.
And we're hearing reports that even from a professor said, "Well, you know so much about this case. Why don't you write a book?"
And then it turns -- John Karr told reporters he began writing Patsy Ramsey, saying things like, "I'm very sorry. It was all an accident. I'm really sorry about what happened. It wasn't intentional." That sort of thing.
And then about two years ago he began e-mailing this professor at the Journalism School at Colorado University, and they began e-mailing back and forth. And then finally, Michael Tracey, said things began to get a little strange, and he turned it over to police.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Is there a single thing that prompted you to say, "OK, I've got to go to the cops now"?
MICHAEL TRACEY, UNIV. OF COLORADO PROFESSOR: There was, but I'm not going to say what it is. There was one particular thing, yes.
QUESTION: Was it a detail that hadn't been reported?
TRACEY: No, no.
QUESTION: That's what they're saying, that he knew parts of this crime that hadn't been reported.
TRACEY: No. I'm not going to comment (ph) on that. There was -- there was one particular thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DORNIN: Now, we've heard other reports that that thing, he commented, was weird. That something weird happened in those e-mails at some point.
Now, there was -- KUSA, which is a TV station in Denver, was reporting that John Karr did know things about the crime, details that no one else knew. But we have no idea whether that was in that e-mail or what else he was trying to tell this professor.
PHILLIPS: And John Karr wrote to the professor because the professor did this documentary, right?
DORNIN: He did. He did this documentary called "Who Killed the Pageant Queen?" And John Karr said that he was doing research himself and he wanted to find out a lot more about the case and trying to pick Michael Tracey's brain because he had done this extensive documentary.
PHILLIPS: So, this brings up the question, was he just obsessed with this case and possibly had other crimes against children, and this is just something maybe he wanted to be a part of? Or was he really a part of it?
DORNIN: Right. And one thing CNN has confirmed, in Marion County, Alabama, a school superintendent there -- we're not sure quite the year -- but he is saying that he asked John Karr -- told him couldn't be a substitute teacher anymore because some of the parents complained that he was treating the children with too much affection. And his wife actually cited that as one of the reasons for her divorce. She asked for a divorce after he had been arrested in Petaluma for possessing child pornography.
PHILLIPS: And the wife, he married her when she was 16.
DORNIN: Sixteen.
PHILLIPS: And then they divorced.
DORNIN: In 2001, after he had been arrested and fled, apparently. He was supposed to come up for trial but never -- and he apparently fled after that.
PHILLIPS: All right. We'll keep following all the interesting details, Rusty. Thank you.
Well, a woman who says that she was married to John Mark Karr puts a hole in his confession. That's exactly who Rusty and I were just talking about.
You're going to find out what she had to say.
Plus, another ruling in the U.K. airline terror case. We're going to see what it means for Scotland Yard and the suspects straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, another step forward in the British airline terror investigation. Even as Scotland Yard backs off its latest arrests, a man arrested Tuesday was freed last night once police found no connection to the alleged plot to blow up planes of liquid bombs.
Now, earlier, a judge in London OK'd the holding of 23 other suspects without charge for several more days.
Updating a story that we first brought you yesterday on LIVE FROM, the offshore arrest of alleged drug king pin Francisco Javier Arellano-Felix. He was taken into the federal detention center in San Diego just a short time ago, accompanied by a motorcade of marked and unmarked police cars and sharp shooters. Felix allegedly led a drug cartel that imported vast amounts of cocaine and marijuana into the U.S.
Something is missing in Beirut today: air raid sirens, explosions, fire, casualties, and fear of unseen attacks. But while the open hostilities may have stopped, the conflict still simmers.
Straight to Beirut now and CNN's Jim Clancy -- Jim.
JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a deployment, Kyra, of political will more than military force. Thousands of Lebanese troops fanning out across Lebanon south of the Litani River toward the Israeli border. Israeli troops then pulling back. UNIFIL in the middle there as the U.N. troops did their job. A very important move that was welcomed with rose water and rice in some areas by the Lebanese people, by cheers and handshakes in other areas.
To all measures and all judgments, it would appear the Lebanese people are very pleased to see the deployment of this army. Some people, though, say it comes about six years too late. That's when Israel withdrew from Lebanon and Hezbollah guerillas moved in there to fill a security void.
Now, what has happened today is in some ways historic. This cease-fire, day three, well more than half over in terms of that cease-fire. Going well, but there's another debate that's continuing.
PHILLIPS: All right. Jim Clancy in Beirut.
Thanks so much. We'll get back to you, but we've got some developing news on the Mel Gibson case.
We want to get straight to the newsroom. Carol Lin on that story -- Carol.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: That's right, Kyra. We do know that Mel Gibson's attorneys were in court today in Malibu, California, but something else may have happened.
Harvey Levin from TMZ.com on the telephone with me right now.
Harvey, what went down?
Harvey Levin?
HARVEY LEVIN, TMZ.COM: Carol?
LIN: Yes. What happened?
LEVIN: There was a plea bargain.
LIN: There was. What happened? So what is he going to get?
LEVIN: Well, here's the deal. Mel Gibson, he was not present. His lawyer, Blair Burt (ph), did this for him. She was in court with the prosecutor.
But he has pled no contest to the misdemeanor count of driving with a .08 blood alcohol level or higher. And as a result, he's getting three years probation. He will avoid jail time.
He is required to attend one year of AA meetings, and for the first four and a half months he has to attend five times a week. And for the balance of the time he has to attend three times a week.
He has to pay $1,200 in fines and penalties, as well as $100 in restitution. He's going to do a public service announcement on the -- on the hazards of driving under the influence. He volunteered to enter a rehab program immediately. And also under this deal, he -- there were two counts that were also filed against him, driving under the influence and driving with an open container. And those two counts were dismissed.
LIN: Well, he's also having to give up his driver's license?
LEVIN: Yes. Under California law, the Department of Motor Vehicles actually suspends or restricts his license for 90 days. That's not actually done through the D.A. That's done through the Department of Motor Vehicles, and that's standard in these cases. I mean, this punishment, Carol, is very much standard for a first time DUI offender.
LIN: All right. But no jail time.
LEVIN: No jail time.
LIN: All right. And they moved the court date up. Why?
LEVIN: Well, this was -- this case was absolutely going to plea bargain, and plea bargain stat. You know, from what I'm hearing, this has been in the works now for over a week. And they wanted to -- they wanted to get this thing out of the court system.
One of the things Mel Gibson never wants is this videotape of him at the police station released. And by plea bargaining it's not entered into evidence and they have a better shot of keeping it secret.
LIN: All right. Well, we saw that cell phone video just a moment ago of Mel Gibson as he was being arrested, and apparently hurling anti-Semitic remarks. Any consequence of that in Hollywood? I know there were several actors and comedians who came out protesting, saying that they would never work with Mel Gibson again.
What's likely for his career now?
LEVIN: You know, the anger toward him over those comments were -- was kind of tepid, at best. I mean, there really isn't a boycott against Mel Gibson. And I'm telling you, Carol -- and I've covered this town for a long time.
LIN: I know.
LEVIN: He's going to be fine. I mean, he's not -- there will really be very little, if any, consequence as a result. And, you know, by the way, the remarks that he made in the police car, those don't constitute a crime. So it's not at all part of this plea deal.
LIN: All right. Just insulting, right, Harvey?
LEVIN: Absolutely.
LIN: OK. Harvey, just a quick tidbit on your Web site. I'm reading here that Judge Lawrence Mirra (ph), who took the plea... LEVIN: Right.
LIN: ... apparently he's had a few famous people in his courtroom.
LEVIN: Oh, he's -- they should put a red carpet in his courtroom. There have been so many celebrities in there. I mean, Nick Nolte has been in there...
LIN: Nick Nolte, Nicole Richie, Kim Delaney.
LEVIN: Oh, just you name it. Anybody who has gotten into trouble.
The funny thing is, is that it's such a small town, they initially went to another court to take the plea. They went to a judge by the name of Terry Anderson (ph), but she ended up saying she refused to take the plea because she is Mel Gibson's neighbor.
LIN: Talk about a small community.
LEVIN: Yes.
LIN: Harvey, all right, thanks very much.
LEVIN: OK, Carol.
LIN: Harvey Levin of TMZ.com.
Kyra, you and I have known Harvey for a long time.
PHILLIPS: Yes. We all worked in L.A. together.
LIN: He's getting the scoops. You bet.
PHILLIPS: He always gets the scoop.
All right, Carol. Thanks.
And thanks to Harvey.
Well, can you afford to retire? America's pension plans are in trouble, but a new law signed today may improve your odds. We're going to tell you just how straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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