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First Count Thrown Out in Jose Padilla Terrorism Trial; President Bush Addresses the Media; Web of Pedophiles; Suspect in Virginia Killings Taken Into Custody

Aired August 21, 2006 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: New information in on a terrorism suspect that we all know very well.
Tony Harris...

TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jose Padilla.

PHILLIPS: That's right -- details...

HARRIS: That's right.

PHILLIPS: ... at the top of the hour.

HARRIS: Yes, Kyra, just getting word that federal Judge Marcia Cooke has thrown out the first count in the Jose Padilla indictment. That's the count that charges Padilla and four other defendants in the case with conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim persons in a foreign country.

Now, there are still nine other counts against all of the defendants, including conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists.

Now, earlier this month, Judge Cooke agreed, rather reluctantly, to delay the Padilla trial -- it was scheduled to go next month, in September -- until early next year, probably late January now, after defense lawyers insisted they couldn't be ready any earlier.

Let me just sort of test your memory on this. Padilla is a U.S. citizen. He was held without charges for three-and-a-half years as an enemy combatant. Now, according to federal authorities, Padilla was on an al Qaeda mission, when he was picked up in Chicago at O'Hare International Airport. He was on an al Qaeda mission, according to federal authorities, to detonate a dirty bomb in a major U.S. city.

So, the news, just in the last couple of minutes, is that Federal Judge Marcia Cooke has thrown out the first count in a 10-count indictment against Jose Padilla and the four others who are charged in this terrorism plot. And those charges involved in that first count were for conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim persons in a foreign country.

That's the latest just in to us -- Kyra...

PHILLIPS: All right, Tony. HARRIS: ... back to you.

PHILLIPS: Thanks.

HARRIS: Sure thing.

PHILLIPS: Well, John Mark Karr is back on U.S. soil. But, for the teacher who turned the JonBenet Ramsey case upside down, Los Angeles is just a pit stop in an odd odyssey between Bangkok and Boulder, Colorado.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is in Boulder -- Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.

Well, things have dramatically changed for John Karr, after enjoying a 15-hour business-class flight, with all the amenities of eating and drinking. Those games have all come to an end. He is now being treated just like any other murder suspect in the Los Angeles County jail, expecting an extradition hearing tomorrow morning, 8:30 Pacific time, 11:30 Eastern.

After that, if he does not waive his right to extradition, then -- if he just waives it, he can be brought back here at any time. Boulder authorities tell us they have about 10 days to pick him up, although every indication we have gotten from them so far is that they expect him back here in Boulder within 48 hours.

And, then, the legal process here begins in Boulder. And there's a little bit of a time crunch that prosecutors here will be under, because, once he arrives and he is jailed here in Boulder, prosecutors have 72 hours, three days, to file charges against him.

And we understand that prosecutors and investigators have been working over the weekend, intensely, trying to piece this case together against John Karr. Exactly how far along they have gotten is hard to tell, because, as we have been reporting for the last several days, this is a district attorney's office that has really clamped down the amount of information that is coming out, in terms of what is going on in this case.

So, right now, we are waiting to see how just quickly John Karr will be brought back down here. We understand it will be a very secure environment. Not even very many details will be released about when and how he will be returned here to Colorado -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Ed, thanks.

Well, a long, strange trip for passengers on that Thai airlines flight from Bangkok to Los Angeles.

CNN's Drew Griffin was on the plane that brought John Karr back to the U.S.

Did you get a chance to talk to him, Drew, or at least try and work your way into that area? DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: You know, Kyra, it wasn't hard to talk at him. He was easily accessible.

The problem was, he wasn't responding at all. In fact, if you look at the video, whenever somebody asks a question of John Karr, you will notice, his eyes shift towards the person, but his head doesn't move. He was trying to ignore us completely.

There, he is chatting with the -- the investigator from the DA's office out of Boulder, Colorado -- a lot of idle chitchat with his handlers during the entire flight, but, as far as the media on board was concerned, in -- including myself, he would not talk to us at all, intent on what we were asking, but wouldn't answer any questions.

In fact, a couple of times during the flight, I would actually go up just and ask some procedural issues of Ann Hurst (ph), who is an Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent. And John Karr would be very intently listening to what I was saying, but not responding in any way.

And, when I would look over at him, he would then dart his eyes away and avert his eyes -- just an odd demeanor about him, shy, but intensely so.

PHILLIPS: Well, he seemed to be eager to talk when he was in Thailand, had no problem saying whatever he wanted to say in front of the cameras. Do you think he's being told not to say anything, or this is just his choice? I mean, obviously, detectives let you in there around him, right?

GRIFFIN: Yes, it was total free access.

Of course, we were being cordial with them, and, you -- you know, asked if he would like to talk. And they said, he really wouldn't. He has denied any request for a one-on-one interview.

At one time, I even wrote down a note to him and gave him some leafs of paper, you know, saying, if there's anything you want to say, if we have got anything wrong on this, please, just write it out, and give it to me, and I will, of course, disseminate that to -- to the -- to the world, basically -- no response to that, no response to our questions here in the terminal, no response to any of the questions as he was leaving the plane.

But that was a sea change, Kyra, from his time in Thailand, when he was hauled out in front of the media, and just began talking about the case.

After that news conference, one of the inmates in that Bangkok detention center told us, about a day later, that -- that John Karr was inside the -- the -- the cell saying, look, some of the things they are staying about me are just simply not true.

That was the basis of my note that I slipped to him on board the plane. I said, listen if something isn't true, let's get it straight right now. He decided not to respond to that.

PHILLIPS: So, I'm curious. Were there female and male reporters in the group? And did he act the same toward both?

GRIFFIN: Yes. He acted the same towards all of us, not interested in...

(LAUGHTER)

GRIFFIN: ... in anybody else.

PHILLIPS: So, what do you think about this talk about the way he was treated, the -- the prawns, the pate, chardonnay. You think they were trying to loosen him up, see if he would talk at all, see if they would be able to get anything more from him?

Some legal analysts have come forward, saying, hey, that was a brilliant move, to treat him like a king.

GRIFFIN: Kyra, honestly, I don't think so.

This guy was seated in -- in business class. They wanted to do that because it was the most secure location, they felt, on a commercial airline flight. You know. You have been on coach. It's very crowded. There's a lot of activity.

There's also -- quite frankly, there was a lot of kids back in business -- I mean, back in coach. And there wasn't any -- and there weren't any kids here. He was in the last row of business, placed up against the window. All his moves were monitored.

Thai Airways would not allow any handcuffs. So, I think they were just saying, hey, you know, we are on board the flight. Let's just make it a comfortable flight for this guy. They're going to serve the food to whoever sits in that seat anyway. Let have him have the food.

And, quite frankly, I think it's pretty much overblown. I -- I spent 15 hours on that flight with him, got the same exact meals. And, believe me, the description is much better than the actual events that transpired.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: What about Mark Spray, the investigator from the Boulder district attorney's office sitting next to him? Did you have a chance to talk to him? Was he talking with reporters at all?

GRIFFIN: Yes, he -- I mean, the -- nobody talked on the record -- but Mr. Spray, very cordial fellow. They were all very cordial.

The one guy who didn't talk much was Gary Phillips (ph). And he was the -- the large guy who spent most of the time right next to Mr. Karr. And you could tell he was pretty much the heavy. When it was time to go to the bathroom for Mr. Karr, it was -- it was Mr. Phillips who, right there, stuck his foot in the door.

He's sticking his foot in the door of the bathroom, so that that bathroom could not shut. And he was making sure that there would be absolutely no trouble on board. You can see, he's walking back now to his seat.

The only time that Mr. Karr got up was when he was going to the bathroom.

PHILLIPS: Drew, thanks so much.

GRIFFIN: You bet.

PHILLIPS: Well, tonight, Larry King will have an exclusive interview with Ramsey family attorney Lin Wood. They will be joined by Michael Tracey, the Colorado professor who led police to Karr, after a long and disturbing exchange of e-mails. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern.

Now, a shaky cease-fire in Israel and Lebanon, fears of civil war in Iraq, and more defiance from Iran -- as you know, if you have been watching CNN, the Middle East took center stage at President Bush's news conference today.

Our Suzanne Malveaux wraps it up from the White House.

Hey, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, hey, Kyra.

As you know, President Bush has really staked his presidency and his legacy on what he calls his freedom agenda, the idea of spreading democracy around the Middle East. What the president is doing is now trying to convince Americans to believe in this so-called agenda -- at the focus, the center of this, is the Iraq agenda.

So, we heard President Bush today talk about things that we have not heard before, using some words. Mr. Bush said that he is concerned about civil war erupting in Iraq. He also said that he did care about people being discouraged about what happens in Iraq.

And he said that is one of the reasons why he is going to take a lot of time to talk about why it's important to stay in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Frustrated? Sometimes, I'm frustrated. Rarely surprised. Sometimes, I'm happy. You know, this is -- this is a -- it's -- but war is not a time of joy.

These aren't joyous times. These are challenging times. And they're difficult times. And they're straining the -- the psyche of our country. I understand that.

You know, nobody likes to see innocent people die.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: But the president, nevertheless, insisting that it's important the American people understand that the American citizens must stay in Iraq to fight that battle.

And, also, Kyra, a very interesting, poignant exchange with a reporter, who, quite frankly, asked the president, what does Iraq have to do with the attack on the World Trade Center, the September 11 attacks? President Bush said, nothing.

And, then, he goes on to say, nobody has ever suggested in this administration that Saddam Hussein ordered the attacks. He said, the lessons of September 11 is to take the threats before they fully materialize, and that Iraq, they believed at the time, having weapons of mass destruction, their belief was, is that it was in fact a threat.

But, Kyra, the -- the fact that this question even came up, three years after the Iraq war, really underscores the intensity, perhaps, of the suspicion and the debate whether or not this administration intentionally blurred the lines between Iraq and September 11 to justify the invasion of Iraq three years ago -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Suzanne Malveaux, at the White House, thank you.

Well, the U.N. is trying to shore up the Mideast truce.

Our Liz Neisloss is at U.N. headquarters with more -- Liz.

LIZ NEISLOSS, CNN SENIOR UNITED NATIONS PRODUCER: Well, that's right, Kyra.

They are trying to shore up. They have put out the all-call, saying they need troops very quickly for southern Lebanon, for a beefed-up force there. But, so far, they have had major contributions quickly offered from Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh.

But the problem is, these are all countries that do not recognize Israel. Israel does not want those particular countries. So, where are the Europeans? That's the big question being asked today, and last week, as well.

A U.N. spokesman explains the challenge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANE DUJARRIC, UNITED NATIONS SPOKESPERSON: It is clear that the force will need to have military -- military legitimacy and -- and political legitimacy.

I think it would not be -- it would not come as a surprise to -- to us to see, once the force is in place, that it will be a force made up of European, non-Europeans, Muslims, and -- and non-Muslims. But, I think, first, we have to -- we have to assemble the force. And, obviously, we would want to deploy a force that is workable, politically and militarily.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEISLOSS: Now, militarily, it's important for the Europeans, because many of those countries have the equipment, have the special -- specialized capabilities that some of the developing nations do not.

But this is not a very stable situation. This is an area where a cease-file -- cease-fire is seen as fair -- fairly shaky. The U.S. Ambassador, John Bolton, explained some of the hesitations that nations might have.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BOLTON, UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: As long as Hezbollah fighters remain armed in the south or elsewhere in the country, whether the arms are visible or hidden under mattresses, the international peacekeeping force and the Lebanese armed forces, while we are on the subject, will be vulnerable, if Hezbollah orders additional attacks. And I think that's very much on the minds of the troop contributors. And I think that's understandable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEISLOSS: And another tricky twist here: The new UNIFIL, as they're called, U.N. troops, will not be looking for weapons under mattresses. They do not have that authority. They will be there just to help the Lebanese government, and will step in when needed -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Liz, thanks so much.

We want to get straight to the newsroom now -- Tony Harris with more on that manhunt around Virginia Tech, that escaped prisoner -- Tony.

HARRIS: Yes, Kyra, just trying to get any information we can, new information, on the manhunt for William Charles Morva. Morva has been on the run since yesterday, after overpowering a sheriff's deputy at the hospital where he was being treated for a sprained wrist and ankle.

He was shackled on the way to the hospital. Don't know if he was released from those shackles for the treatment. Now, police Morva killed an unarmed security guard at that hospital. Now, this morning, he was being tracked along the Huckleberry Trail that connects Christiansburg and Blacksburg -- that's about a six-mile-long trail. Well, police say Morva shot and killed Corporal Eric Sutphin, a 13- year law enforcement veteran, a husband and a father of twin daughters. You will see his picture here in just a moment. There he is.

So, Kyra, the manhunt continues at this hour. And, as it does, Blacksburg has been virtually locked down. Certainly, the Tech campus has been closed, although there is this elective release of -- going on now for some of the employees at Tech.

We will certainly keep a an eye on developments there, certainly, kind of a rude surprise for students who were showing up for the first day of classes at Tech, students like Alley Gray (ph), who we talked to a short time ago, and Madison Van Dine (ph), who are essentially locked down in their apartments off campus, as police continue to search for William Charles Morva.

We will keep an eye on it for you -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Appreciate it, Tony.

HARRIS: Sure thing.

PHILLIPS: We also expect a briefing from Blacksburg this hour. The mayor and the president of Virginia Tech are both expected to speak. We will take that live as soon as it happens.

Also, new developments regarding the health of former President Gerald Ford.

Our Keith Oppenheim is at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, where Ford is being treated.

Keith, give us an update.

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we have heard from Mayo officials is that there's going to be an update in a couple of hours from now, Kyra.

Keep in mind that former President Ford checked into the Mayo Clinic here in Rochester, Minnesota, last Tuesday. And they have not identified why he's here and what's wrong. So, when I just did one of my regular check-ins today to find out what's going on, I was told about the update, but that's all that they would say for the moment.

I asked a little more. I said, is he in bad shape? And a spokesperson, Lee Aase, said, no, he's well.

I said, so, he's not dying?

The answer was from Lee Aase was, no.

I said, he's stable?

And the answer was, yes.

And just remember that it has been four times now since December that former President Ford has been hospitalized. He was in a hospital in Vail, Colorado, for shortness of breath last month. He was there for two days. And, in January, he was in a hospital in California for pneumonia.

Kyra, he's 93 years old. And, while we will hear more this afternoon, it certainly sounds like he's suffering from some complications that come with being in frail condition.

PHILLIPS: All right, Keith Oppenheim, tracking former President Ford's condition for us there at the Mayo Clinic, thank you.

Well, straight ahead: They say they are spiritually connected to children. They say they are battling for children's civil rights. They are the men and women who want to legalize sex with your kids -- inside the World Wide Web of pedophiles and the investigative reporter that broke the story.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Suspicion, investigation, apprehension, more investigation, prosecution -- Britain today announced the first criminal charges in the alleged plot to blow up planes over the Atlantic.

CNN's Robin Oakley is following the developments from London.

Robin, what do we know?

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN EUROPEAN POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, the first serious development in the alleged plot to blow up those airliners with liquid explosives, Kyra.

First, we heard from Susan Hemming, who is the counterterrorism chief at the Crown Prosecution Service here in Britain, which decides whether people should face charges or not. She has announced charges against 11 of the 23 people who have been held since August 10.

Eight of them are going to face a double count of conspiracy to murder by taking on explosive devices onto the airliners, or plotting to do so. And, secondly, they will be charged with a new offense of acts preparatory to terrorism, an offense only created in new legislation this year.

But the most dramatic thing we heard today, really, was from Peter Clarke, who is counterterrorism -- counterterrorism chief at Scotland Yard. And he outlined the kind of evidence that is going to be used against those who are now being charged.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER CLARKE, ANTITERRORISM CHIEF, BRITISH METROPOLITAN POLICE: There is evidence from surveillance carried out before the 10th of August. This includes important, indeed highly significant, video and audio recordings.

I can also tell you that, since the 10th of August, we have found bomb-making equipment. There are chemicals, including hydrogen peroxide, electrical components, documents, and other items.

We have also found a number of video recordings. These are sometimes referred to as martyrdom videos. (END VIDEO CLIP)

OAKLEY: And Peter Clarke outlined, also, that there have been searches of as many as 69 flats, houses, business premises, and vehicles.

Two hundred computers have been seized and a similar number of mobile phones. And he said, this is a really large-scale investigation, which will take many months for all the evidence to be analyzed -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: We will keep following it.

Robin Oakley, thank you.

Well, they say they are spiritually and emotionally connected to children. They say they are fighting for children's civil rights. They are the men and women who want to legalize sex with children. And they are looking for your child.

In a jaw-dropping investigation, "New York Times" writer Kurt Eichenwald takes us inside an online network of pedophiles that most people find absolutely repulsive.

Kurt, once again, an amazing investigation. You really uncovered things that I think a lot of people were absolutely amazed to hear. We hear so much about the cases and the suspects, but not exactly what's going on in this world.

As you investigated this piece, what did you find to be the most disturbing aspect of what you discovered?

KURT EICHENWALD, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": It was sort of like every day was competition with the next.

The -- probably, the most amazing thing was the magnitude of the infrastructure. Pedophiles have constructed, online, mechanisms for what originally seemed to be a support network, but now has emerged much more into both an effort at a political movement and a mechanism for sharing tips on how to gain access to kids.

And they have online radio stations. They have online podcasts. They have, you know, obviously, the old chat rooms. They have online jewelry stores. They have technology-sharing information that allows them to tell each other how to avoid the latest mechanisms for detecting trading of child porn.

It is -- it is a very extensive network. And -- but what -- what is the most interesting thing about it, I think, is the degree to which these people are online, day after day, reinforcing attitudes and opinions that, I think, most in this country would find very shocking.

PHILLIPS: All right. And you mentioned almost everything I want to try and hit on in the next couple of minutes that -- as we talk. Let's start with the on -- online jewelry. And the reason why I want to do that is because I was in a video store recently, well, about six months ago -- I was telling you this story -- and this young man had this necklace on. And he head this charm. And it was very interesting.

And I said, hey, wow, that's a beautiful charm. What does it mean?

And he said, well, if you don't know, then you don't need to know.

And I thought, well, maybe, he's recovering from alcohol or drug abuse, and it's a very personal thing, but he's proud, and only certain people will know about it.

Well, lo and behold, when I saw the pictures from your investigation, I realized, the charm around his neck was this one, the boy-love symbol. So, you have got the boy-love symbol that comes in this triangle, and, also, butterflies. I want to show the other symbol as well.

Then, I want to show our viewers the girl-love symbol, which is in a heart. And then there's the online pedophile -- pedophile activism symbol, which is this one here, and also the yin and yang. It's sort of an international sign of solidarity for these boy-lovers and girl-lovers.

Now, are they using these symbols as sort of undercover ways to try and attract others like them? Is that the purpose?

EICHENWALD: Oh, it's -- well, the -- the -- the -- the jewelry and the pendants are definitely a means of signaling.

I mean, they're -- there is not a reason to wear something that no one recognizes other than members of the club. And, so, that is -- that is definitely a means of -- of communicating, of finding each other. It's -- it's easy to find each other on the -- on the Internet. It's a lot harder to find each other on -- in the real world.

But, to a large degree, what these symbols are about are this nascent effort at a -- a social movement, this -- this idea they have that they are fighting for children's rights to have -- to have sexual encounters with adults.

They have -- I -- you know, I have been watching these guys talk to each other for months. And they do seem to believe that there is this wide array of children out there just -- just chomping at the bit to enter into sexual relationships with 45-year-old men. And, you know, they -- it -- it is something of a very bizarre fantasy world.

PHILLIPS: And, Kurt, it leads me in now to -- to Web sites.

We came across this one. It was obviously targeted to young girls. And it has got a whole list of questions. For example, it says, "What are girl-lovers?" And it goes on to say, "Girl-lovers care very much about girls and are committed to making them happy and protecting them. A true girl-lover would never do anything to hurt a young girl. They appreciate the thoughts and emotions of girls, and are eager to experience the world -- that world the way you do."

Now, that sounds like a nice counselor you go to meet with when you are having issues, maybe about thoughts and feelings that you are having.

Is this the exact way they try to lure young kids into -- into their Web sites, into meeting them?

EICHENWALD: They -- they are not that explicit.

I mean, you know, the -- these people are not what most of the world thinks they are. They are not all a bunch of child killers. They are not all a bunch of child rapists. In fact, they are as angry at child killers and rapists as the rest of us.

Where they delude themselves, I believe, is where they think that they have something to offer the children that -- that parents don't, that they understand them better. You are actually hearing these kinds of words coming out of John Karr, that -- that he has this special connection with children.

And that part you are reading right there is an element of that. This -- it's -- it's not them trying to lure them. They are actually expressing something they believe. Now, they befriend children. You know, the -- one of the things that -- that they frequently cite is that most molestation occurs within families and with people you already now. And they think this is statement that, you know, it's not strangers very often.

Well, the reality is that what I recognized on these sites was, all of these people talked about children they knew. And they would call them their young friends. They -- they were clear. They would talk about their desire for advancing the relationship, to bring it to a sexual level.

And, so, if you are a parent out there, and you have some other adult who has an inordinate -- pays an inordinate amount of attention to your child, this is something you need to pay attention to.

PHILLIPS: And here's an example of something that you stated in your piece. You talked about jobs that -- that pedophiles take on, and -- and, number one, a schoolteacher -- that didn't surprise -- surprise us -- but disc jockeys at parties, hoping to be around young, attractive kids, pediatric nurse, piano teacher, water park employee, and pediatrician specializing in gynecology.

I mean, these are all, of course, areas where children would need to see -- either need to see these individuals, or it would make sense -- this is a perfect way for them to -- to be with children.

EICHENWALD: Their -- many of them build their lives around children. They build their lives in ways that they have access to children.

And, again, it -- it doesn't mean they are going to molest them, but it does mean that they are going to be influencing them. And that -- that level of influence -- I mean, it was interesting. There was one person online who had been arrested, who had served time for molestation.

And he talked about how he had this friend -- this friend who was a boy, and things had gone too far, and he ended up molesting the child. And he was expressing regret, not for the act, but for the damage it caused the -- the -- the boy, when everybody found out about it.

And he was pilloried by the other members of that conversation, telling him, you know, he was a victim of the Stockholm syndrome, that he had succumbed to the -- to the lessons being beaten in by the oppressors. And...

PHILLIPS: Well, we have heard stories like this, but I can't believe, in the Netherlands, a pedophile political party has actually been recognized by the Dutch. I mean, that just amazes me, Kurt, beyond belief.

EICHENWALD: Much -- much to the dismay of, I think, it's 86 percent of -- of the people there. But, legally, yes, it is -- it is recognized now.

PHILLIPS: I encourage everyone to read your article.

Kurt Eichenwald, "New York Times," sure appreciate your time.

EICHENWALD: Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Let's go straight to Tony Harris, working a developing story out of Baltimore, Maryland -- Tony.

HARRIS: That's right, Kyra.

You see it right there to the right of your screen, live pictures now out of Baltimore. Are those live pictures? I believe -- yes, there they are, live pictures, from our affiliate WBAL, of a three- alarm fire.

This is a -- a set of row homes here. Nine row homes, we understand, are involved in this fire -- once again, a three-alarm fire. Just moments ago, it seemed pretty much out of control, but the white smoke, as you know, Kyra, seems to indicate that firefighters are at least starting to get a handle on the fire -- no word of injuries right now.

But, as you get a little closer, you can see that this fire is still -- still burning pretty strong at this point in time. This is very close to City School Headquarters there in Baltimore, 300 block of 20th street is where this fire is burning right now. Once again, nine homes involved in this. These are row homes and Baltimore, as you know Kyra, is famous for its row homes. If you have seen any of the films of John Waters, Barry Levinson, he features row homes, they all do, in their films and this is one of those streets right now, that at least at the moment, is going up in flames.

Firefighters doing a pretty good job of it right now, but we understand interior walls have collapsed. A lot of white smoke, as you can see right now. Once again a number of fire units on the scene, a three-alarm fire. It looks like firefighters are, at least, starting to get a handle on it. No word of injuries at this point in time. Once again our thanks to our affiliate, WBAL there in Baltimore, for these live chopper pictures, a bird's-eye view of that fire as firefighters are working it. Kyra, we will keep an eye on it and bring you an update.

PHILLIPS: Great, thanks Tony.

HARRIS: Sure thing.

PHILLIPS: Another trial for Saddam Hussein and these charges make the first ones look like misdemeanors. The latest from Baghdad coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Ron Rordam, mayor of Blacksburg, Virginia talking about the manhunt now for that murder suspect. Let's listen in.

MAYOR RON RORDAM, BLACKSBURG, VIRGINIA: And in our prayers. Residents should remain vigilant during the search for the murder suspect, William Charles Morva. The town of Blacksburg and the Virginia Tech communities are at a heightened state of awareness. Practice good personal safety. Remain in your homes if possible. Lock doors and windows, and keep your vehicle locked. Be aware of your surroundings and report information on Morva to police. Call 911 if you sight him but keep your distance. Remember he's armed and dangerous.

He is suspected in the killing of security officer Derrick McFarland and deputy Corporal Eric Sutphin. Police continue to search using tactical teams from many jurisdictions. If you are delayed or approached by the police, please cooperate with them so we can bring this killer to justice. The outpouring of police resources in the area has been tremendous and has been greatly appreciated. Be careful, be safe and be aware. We, as a community, will get through this together.

CHARLES STEGER, VIRGINIA TECH PRESIDENT: Well, I would also like to join with the mayor in expressing our sincere sorrow over the loss of life and send our condolences to the families of Derrick McFarland and Corporal Eric Sutphin. They lost their lives all trying to protect us. We are also grateful and buoyed by the massive police assistance underway, seeking to apprehend this individual. I was on the phone this morning with Governor Kane and he offered to provide any assistance that the state could make available to us and they have been very forthcoming in their assistance in this very serious endeavor. Certainly we remain concerned but I want to assure the family and friends that there is a massive police presence here. The town of Blacksburg and the university are at a heightened state of alert and we remain hopeful that this person will soon come to justice. We are taking steps to secure the campus. Student dormitories are locked and accessible only to the residents of those buildings. Our employees have been sent home. Campus buildings are locked and we have officers patrolling the entire campus.

We are asking people not to venture out unless they feel it's absolutely necessary. We have no new information about the search at this point. The university central leadership and all of the staff have operated very professionally and very effectively and we will be meeting in the next hours to assess the situation and determine the next steps for the campus. And we will be conferring throughout the evening and make the decisions about what will happen tomorrow.

We will continue to use all campus communications to keep the community apprised, including e-mail, phone mail, the university website, the emergency phone line, as well as public media. I just want to assure all of our friends and all of our families that we have done everything today that we possibly can and we want to encourage you, if you perhaps spot this individual, to call into the police. But in the meantime, lock your doors. Stay indoors. And we hope to bring this to resolution in the very near future. Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Well you just heard from the mayor of Blacksburg in addition to the president of Virginia Tech. The message, be careful, be safe, be aware, lock your doors and stay indoors until authorities find William Charles Morva, the man that police are still searching for in the Blacksburg area, possibly outside of Blacksburg, Virginia after he escaped prison and he is accused of killing two men. We are going to go back to that news conference now. I understand he's taking questions. Let's listen in.

QUESTION: How hard is it for students to literally just to stay in their rooms and stay in their dorms?

LARRY HINCKER, VA. TECH SPOKESMAN: At this point we think the safest place to be is indoors, John. That's why we told people that. Yes, indeed, there are students moving about. We have had campus police patrolling campus and recommending that people go back indoors. It's not a police state. We can't lock everybody down but we strongly, strongly encourage people to stay indoors until we have further information.

QUESTION: How are you going to handle the dining haul and people going to dinner? I mean are they going to be escorted by police?

HINCKER: We have a police presence in and around the dining halls.

QUESTION: So they are allowed to go to dinner then?

HINCKER: Yes. QUESTION: You say security cameras, but is there any likelihood that he has moved even farther away from the campus?

HINCKER: I mean, I don't think that, I have no idea where he is and we have, though, cordoned the campus very, very well and like Dr. Steger said, we are buoyed by the fact that there are just patrols of police here. But I have no further information other than the reporting this morning of his latest whereabouts.

QUESTION: Is your search spanning beyond the campus?

HINCKER: Now you are getting into the police search, Joe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The police search would go wherever the information leads us. If we need to put resources in another area when tips come in, that's what we will do to continue the search until he's brought to justice.

QUESTION: Have you actually considered evacuating the campus completely, as far as the students go? Has that been an option at this point?

HINCKER: You know, the situation we are facing here is very similar to a weather situation, are the people safer here or are they safer some place else? Right now we believe people are safest indoors.

QUESTION: How many phone calls are you getting from parents?

HINCKER: Well my phone is buzzing right now, that may be one. I'm not sure. But parents are concerned, as they ought to be, but again, we believe the safest thing to do is to keep people battened down right here, right now and we will make a decision later today what we think should happen next.

QUESTION: All campus events have been canceled?

HINCKER: All campus events have been canceled, that's correct.

QUESTION: I have a question about Morva. We're understanding that he, you know, we know he's from the area. He went to Blacksburg high school. He knows the area. We heard that a friend of his said he had been training and planning this, to escape from jail and he planned this all and he was ready to go and he did it. Do you have any information like that, or are you willing to share anything with us as far as that goes?

LT. JOE DAVIS, BLACKSBURG, VA POLICE: I couldn't speak to what type of mindset or training he has, what's going on in his mind right now and I can't necessarily speak to things that are part of an active investigation, either. So, no, I don't have an answer for you on that one.

QUESTION: Can you say how many police there are and where they have come from? DAVIS: There are hundreds of officers in the area and they are from jurisdictions all throughout the New River Valley and we have had offers from countless other agencies.

QUESTION: (OFF MIKE)

DAVIS: I can't confirm that. That would have to go through the operations center, but it would not be out of the realm that they a here helping.

QUESTION: Can you talk about how difficult for you guys to mourn a colleague, but also having to do your job at the same time. I mean, it must be difficult for you guys to do that.

DAVIS: That's what your motivation is. You take that closeness that you felt to the person who has fallen and you turn that into drive to continue to bring this person to justice and you don't quit until they are brought to justice.

QUESTION: Is there anything that would specifically make you all believe that this fellow is more of a danger than, dare I say, sort of your ordinary murder? I mean, is there something that leads you to believe that he's just not trying to get away from here as quickly as possible and escape, and that would make you think he is inclined to do this to more people?

DAVIS: Well, you can draw your own conclusions from the circumstances that we know. We know that he was involved in a shooting at the hospital yesterday. And many hours later, over 24 hours later, he's involved in another incident, a shooting here, that has a considerable amount of time has elapsed so you can draw your own conclusions from why he did what he did, and why he didn't do what he did.

Excuse me, I have some news for you. I have just been advised that the suspect has been taken into custody.

QUESTION: What can you tell us about that?

DAVIS: I will have to give you more information as I get it. OK, so if you want to stay.

STEGER: Joe, I think the best thing for us to do is to try to get our information and then we'll come back. All just stay here, and we'll come back and reassemble here.

DAVIS: We will assemble back.

PHILLIPS: All right, as you can hear the sirens actually leaving that news conference right now, because the news is just coming in. You'll see all the reporters pretty much bolt out of there and try and chase this story now with the latest information. Apparently William Charles Morva has now been taken into custody.

This was the man, you're seeing his picture right here, that had been on the loose after police say he escaped custody, overpowered a deputy at Montgomery County Hospital, took his gun, shot him to death -- 26-year-old Derrick McFarland, he was a hospital security guard where this inmate was being treated for some minor injuries. Then of course as you know, this morning we brought you the latest news that police said this same man shot and killed the Montgomery County sheriff corporal's Eric Sutphin, shot and killed this morning -- 24- years-old this suspect is.

And it was the first day of school at Virginia Tech campus. It had to literally go on lockdown. Students were being told not to leave their dorm rooms, leave the campus, leave their apartments. Actually the whole community was asked to stay inside until this suspect was located and now we are getting the word that he has been taken into custody.

We'll bring you as much information as we can as we find out where exactly he was found, how he was taken into custody and what's next for this man, William Charles Morva. Police saying the man who has killed two individuals, a sheriff's deputy and also a security guard. We'll stay on that story, bring you all the latest information.

Also, we are following that unfamiliar plane trip from Bangkok to L.A. and the next stop, Boulder. What happens next for the suspect in the JonBenet Ramsey case? You're going to find out straight ahead on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVIS: Excuse me, I have some news for you. I have just been advised that the suspect has been taken in custody.

QUESTION: What can you tell us about that?

DAVIS: I will have to give you more information as I get it, OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: That just happened a couple of minutes ago, you heard it right there, that the suspect rather, this man, William Charles Morva has been taken into custody. It has been a nightmare for authorities within the past 24 hours or so.

This 24-year-old inmate was -- had been taken to the hospital from jail with a sprained wrist and leg. He was supposed to go on trial later this week on charges that he tried to rob a Blacksburg deli. At that point, police said he overpowered a deputy at the hospital, took his gun, shot to death, 26-year-old Derrick McFarland, an unarmed hospital security guard and then came after a Montgomery County sheriff's deputy, Colonel Eric Sutphin. He was actually shot and killed this morning, police say, by Morva on a trail near the Virginia Tech campus. After that, Virginia Tech basically just went on all-out lockdown. Students were told not to leave the campus, stay inside, lock their doors. They were told to immediately leave class. Authorities were all over this community and this campus as the search went on for William Charles Morva.

Now we are told that that 24-year-old inmate, now murder suspect is in custody. We are working details on this, trying to find out exactly where he was found, how he was apprehended, where he is now and what happens next. We will continue to keep you updated on this story. The good news now though -- the suspect taken into custody.

Meanwhile John Mark Karr, arrested but not undecided. For prosecutors in Boulder, this is a critical time and a lot has to happen before they can even talk about formal charges. Atlantic attorney B.J. Bernstein has worked as a prosecutor and defense lawyer. This case couldn't have been higher profile. So how does that complicated process? It's complicated it a lot, and if you look how bizarre it started out, carried out throughout 10 years, now even the arrest of the suspect is bizarre.

B.J. BERNSTEIN, FORMER PROSECUTOR/CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Exactly. And this time factor is going to be crucial and something that becomes very much a help in some ways and a hindrance to the prosecution.

Because when you have 10 years that go by, you have to go back and find all those witnesses from 10 years ago, where are they? Who are they? And then the factor that we have now, bringing it up 10 years, and that we're talking about it on the news every day is that the media is getting to the witnesses first, sometimes before law enforcement is.

And so there's going to be issues for the prosecutor about -- do they get all the information they need from the particular witness because they have already been on T.V. talking about it first.

PHILLIPS: Well as you can imagine, all the Colorado newspapers have been breaking various stories with tidbits here and there about facts. The "Denver Post" had this investigation that came out and found out that the basic pieces of a successful prosecution's case, like shoe size, handwriting sampling and DNA were not obtained by Mary Lacey's office, the D.A.'s office, until after Karr's arrest in Thailand. Now does that surprise you and do you think that adds an interesting twist?

BERNSTEIN: It doesn't surprise me because take a step back for a minute. Yes, those are key components to the prosecution's case, but all of those things would require contact with Karr or his family. If you are concerned that he may disappear again on you, he obviously moves around the world as we have learned and CNN has dug up his old jobs and where he has been, we found out this guy can move around, and so those type of things, until they get him into custody, they're not going to have finished up on. So, it doesn't concern me that they don't have it, yet. It is something they will need to evaluate before they indict. PHILLIPS: So, do you think they have done a DNA test yet? Do you think they have swabbed his mouth, or taken a piece of his hair or anything to try and make a match?

BERNSTEIN: Well, there's some reports that the Thai officials took a swab. The difficulty there is it wasn't done in the United States. In any chemical test that you do there is a legal requirement of chain of custody, in other words showing that the person who took the sample knew what they were doing, put it in a secure place, transported it to the United States, gets it to the lab, so chances are they may have to go through the courts to try to get another sample from him, through more easier legal processes, in order to convict him.

PHILLIPS: Now you always seem to have the inside loop on these cases. You are tied in to so many different people. What is your take on his story, how this has all gone down, how he's acting and all of these sort of bizarre sides angles that are coming out about his life.

BERNSTEIN: Yes, there are a lot of bizarre things that are coming out about him. That's again showing one issue that we have got with this case, that the Ramseys faced ten years ago, and honestly, we're duplicating, again, and we need to think about it. The Ramseys, everything was looked at about their life and put all over the television, now granted they had a better status and didn't have the type of skeletons that Karr does. Now, with Karr it's easier to say well, it's OK because he was convicted of having pornographic images of children, but we do make different judgments about him and they aren't judgments that are necessarily right for the trial itself.

We are back to the characterization of kookie Karr but does that mean he's a murderer? We don't know, yet.

PHILLIPS: Has anyone else confessed to killing JonBenet Ramsey in the past decade? Have there been any other confessions?

BERNSTEIN: You know, I have been trying to look and see. I haven't seen any directly on-line that are mentioned. But certainly when whoever the defense attorney is gets the police files, they will be able to see if that has happened. I have worked on murder cases that were 10 and 20 years old and when going back and looking through those files, that was part of the file given over to me. Now, unfortunately for my clients, you could see where someone had confessed and it turned out not to be true. So it's another indication of why you have got to be careful with Karr's confession. Because there are people who are attracted to high profile cases, who come forward with even initially some information that looks like they may know more, but in truth they weren't part of the actual crime.

PHILLIPS: B.J. Bernstein, appreciate your time.

BERNSTEIN: Good to see you Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well tonight Larry King will have an exclusive interview with Ramsey family attorney Lin Wood. They'll be joined by Michael Tracey, the Colorado professor who led police to Karr after a long and disturbing exchange of emails. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern.

Now a one-time mayor of Atlanta is starting a term that he hoped to avoid in prison. Bill Campbell owes society 30 months on a tax evasion conviction last Winter. Last week he lost his bid to stay free while he appeals and still it could have been worse. Campbell beat racketeering and bribery raps, stemming from his eight year hitch at Atlanta's City Hall. He will do his time at a federal prison camp in his newly adopted south Florida.

Time now to check in with Wolf Blitzer standing by in the "SIT ROOM." What's coming up at the top of the hour Wolf?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much Kyra. Well a candid moment with the president earlier today when he talked about the war in Iraq and the strain it's putting on the country. How do Americans think the war is going? We have some brand new poll numbers, a new CNN poll coming out.

Also is America ready for Hillary Clinton as president? We will look at the various possibilities, as well as her potential competition.

And what happens in Vegas won't stay in Vegas much longer. At least when it comes to picking a presidential candidate. Want to know more? Join us right here in "THE SITUATION ROOM," Kyra, at the top of the hour.

PHILLIPS: See you then Wolf.

Well if it weren't for Joe Rosenthal, Iwo Jima might mean nothing to Americans who didn't happen to fight there in World War II. Rosenthal snapped the iconic, indelible photo of GIs raising the American flag on Mount Surabachi (ph) after a five week battle. He won a Pulitzer Prize and decades of attention, though he never was a household name. Joe Rosenthal died yesterday at a retirement home near San Francisco. He was 94 years old.

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PHILLIPS: Well, Budweiser has some of the most memorable commercials ever, but now Anheuser Bush is taking content creation into their its own hands. Susan Lisovicz live from the New York Stock Exchange with that story.

(MARKET REPORT)

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