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John Mark Karr Waives Extradition Hearing; DNA Expert Demonstrates Process; Iran Responds to U.N. Demands; Russian Airliner Crashes in Siberia

Aired August 22, 2006 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: Cracking the case. John Mark Karr in court this hour. JonBenet Ramsey's suspected killer faces an extradition hearing. Next stop, Boulder.
Hidden in the handwriting. Evidence for conviction? Our Nancy Grace breaks it down letter by letter.

August 22, doomsday or hype? Why some people believe today could be the beginning of the end.

LIVE FROM starts right now.

We're waiting right now for the extradition hearing for John Mark Karr. The judge in L.A. is hearing other cases. Karr's could begin any minute. You can see this live picture right now where you can see Karr in the background as we await this. It's the first time we've had a chance to see him since he's been on the airplane leaving Thailand.

When this proceeding does begin, of course, we're going to take it live. I'm told that it has started. Let's go ahead and listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Colorado, county of Boulder, Mr. Karr, the complaint alleges that you're a fugitive from justice and that you're charged with five counts.

You are charged with one count of first degree murder after deliberation; one count of first degree felony murder; one count of first degree kidnapping; one count of second degree kidnapping; one count of sexual assault on a child.

You have the right to demand and procure counsel, and the court has appointed the public defender.

If you deny that you're the same person charged with the crime in Colorado, you have the right to have an identity hearing in ten days. You also have the right to the issuance and service of a governor's warrant. You also have the right to waive the issuance and service of a governor's warrant.

What is it that you would like to do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You honor, Mr. Karr has elected to waive the extradition and he has signed the paperwork.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has? Can I review it, please?

Mr. Karr, I'm holding up a waiver of extradition. Do you see that?

JOHN MARK KARR, MURDER SUSPECT: Yes, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you read and understand the form?

KARR: Yes, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You understand that by signing this form your agreement to be extradited to Colorado?

KARR: Yes, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. The court finds that the defendant knowingly and intelligently waived his right to issuance and services of the governor's warrant. He is remanded to custody without bail, and the defendant shall be returned to the state of Colorado. Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I just want to address one thing directly. I'd previously asked (UNINTELLIGIBLE), because I believe that there's a potential taint of a potential jury pool in this matter and I'd just like that request made on the report.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. You made that request on sidebar and the court denied that request. Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your honor, is there another date set with the court in regard to this matter?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we will set it for a pickup date in about 10 days, September 6, 2006. That will be the court date to determine whether or not Mr. Karr has been picked up by the state of Colorado. Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

KARR: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you want to talk to him some more?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Just waiting for a moment there because you could actually pick up some of the conversation between John Mark Karr and also his public defender there in L.A. County. But it looks like, now, that we lost that signal. You were able to hear a little back and forth. The discussion was about clothing. We'll get to that in just a second.

As you know, John Karr says that he was with JonBenet Ramsey when she died, but he's never said that he killed her. And even if he did, his word alone isn't enough to get a murder conviction. At this point, no one's even sure what Boulder prosecutors have in that sealed arrest warrant.

CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins me now on the phone with more on the next legal steps. Now you heard the counts that were read against him, Jeffrey. First degree murder, first degree felony murder, first degree kidnapping, first degree -- second -- another kidnapping charge and then one court -- one count of sexual assault against a child.

Now this was -- what was going to take place in L.A. -- in California, correct? But now that he's waived extradition, he's on his way to Boulder, Colorado. What happens with those counts in California?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: They cease to exist in California. The murder -- that is a Colorado murder count against him. He was never charged with murder in Colorado. I'm sorry, he was never charged with murder in California.

This is simply a transfer of the entire JonBenet Ramsey investigation to where it belongs, to the Boulder -- the Boulder district attorney, and that investigation. And he will now be taken to Colorado to address the main case against him.

PHILLIPS: So this has nothing to do, then, with what he was charged with originally in California? And he fled because there was a warrant out for his arrest with regard to the pornography, right?

TOOBIN: Right. That case is in abeyance now. The district attorney in Petaluma has basically moved to the back of the line, which of course makes sense, given the seriousness of the murder charge. So he is not going to have to deal with the whole child pornography issue until the murder case is resolved one way or another.

PHILLIPS: All right, so now basically he's waived extradition. Now he heads to Boulder, Colorado. Is that correct? Is that the next step?

TOOBIN: Right, the only issue in an extradition hearing is are you the John Karr named in the warrant? Not are you guilty. Not is there evidence against you. But are you the same person as the one who is charged?

He said -- he admitted it: "Yes, I am that John Karr." So the hearing was waived. So now Colorado's authorities will figure out a way to transport him to Boulder, where the real case will begin.

And the district attorney now faces a very difficult choice, which is do they have enough evidence to proceed. And if they do proceed what do they do?

PHILLIPS: What did the judge mean by a pickup date?

TOOBIN: A pickup date is, if for some reason he is still in California 10 days from now on September 6, he will reappear before this judge. They basically just don't want to have him lost in the system. So I have every reason to believe it will be many fewer than 10 days before he gets to Colorado.

But judges often do that just so someone isn't lost. They will put his name on the calendar and call this case in 10 days, and if he's still in Los Angeles, they'll deal with getting him to Boulder promptly.

PHILLIPS: And my last question, Jeffrey, we heard a little Q&A between Karr and his public defender there. This is actually the video from when that discussion was taking place. She had asked that he didn't have to be in the orange jump suit. She wanted him to be in civilian clothing. That was denied. Because she was concerned that, by being in the jump suit, that was going to cause some sort of discrimination, convict him already with a jury in Boulder, Colorado. Are you -- you're probably not surprised with the judge...

TOOBIN: No, not really -- that often becomes an issue during a trial where a defendant has regular access to same cell and his clothes can be brought.

I know O.J. Simpson wore his beautifully-cut clothes in court every day, and it actually did have an impact. He didn't lock like a defendant. He looked like a very handsome television star, which is what he was.

But here we're in a situation where John Karr is about to be transferred from one jurisdiction to another and judges almost always will defer to the prison authorities. And they will transfer his belongings. They'll dress him the way they want. The judges don't want to get into that.

And given the fact that he probably won't be in the public eye much, if at all, during that transfer, it probably won't make much difference what he's wearing.

PHILLIPS: Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much.

Well, he can say what he wants, but John Mark Karr will be charged or not charged, convicted or cleared, on the evidence, some of which will almost certainly be DNA.

CNN's Randi Kaye takes a look at that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A spot of blood found on JonBenet Ramsey's underwear and evidence from under her fingernails. They are the makings of a DNA profile that for 10 years has been labeled John Doe. But investigators hope to learn soon whether John Doe will be renamed John Karr.

LAWRENCE KOBLINSKY, PROFESSOR, JOHN JAY COLLEGE: The class is closed. The game is over.

KAYE: Professor Lawrence Koblinsky is a forensic scientist at John Jay College. He says DNA is so reliable that if Karr's profile matches, there is only a one in greater than a trillion chance that someone other than Karr committed the crime.

(on camera) Think of DNA as your own personal bar code. Every cell in our body contains a copy of our own DNA. Only identical twins have the same genetic code.

(voice-over) To determine a match, scientists first look for a sample of DNA on fabric. This demonstration shows how ultraviolet light highlights it.

KOBLINSKY: This may very well be semen. Semen is known to fluoresce when it's in a dried state.

KAYE: That DNA is then cut from the fabric so the extraction can begin.

KOBLINSKY: We would add the specimen of interest to a tube containing this Kelex (ph) resin.

KAYE: The resin extracts and isolates the DNA, when the sample is heated up in this shaking water bath. Professor Koblinsky gets a printout of how many nanograms of DNA he has.

KOBLINSKY: A nanogram is a billionth of a gram of DNA. It's a very tiny amount of DNA. You really can't see it with the naked eye.

KAYE (on camera): Tiny but key?

KOBLINSKY: Tiny but key.

KAYE (voice-over): Next, something called a thermocycler is able to multiply the sample.

KOBLINSKY: We're literally making billions of copies by running 30 cycles of temperature changes.

KAYE: And then finally answers from this genetic analyzer.

KOBLINSKY: There is a very thin capillary here. And the samples are obtained from vials in this box. They're sucked into this needle, travel through the capillary, are detected with a special camera. A laser beam hits the specimens, and the software does the rest.

KAYE (on camera): And then you get a snapshot basically of the profile.

KOBLINSKY: Precisely.

KAYE: Sends it to the computer.

KOBLINSKY: Correct.

KAYE: and then you can see what the profile actually look like.

KOBLINSKY: That's true. That's...

KAYE: And if they match -- case is over? KOBLINSKY: Then case is closed.

KAYE (voice-over): This is what a profile looks like on paper. If the profiles are identical, the DNA is a match.

Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And more of Randi Kaye's reporting is on "ANDERSON COOPER 360." Watch AC 360 weeknights, 10 Eastern, only here on CNN.

Could his penmanship earn him a stretch in the pen? Well, we're going to compare a yearbook entry written by John Mark Karr to the ransom note found at the home of JonBenet Ramsey. Nancy Grace of CNN Headline News and Court TV joins us to check out the evidence in the next hour of LIVE FROM.

Iran is ready to talk. But is it ready to act? The U.N. has demanded Iran pull the plug on its nuclear activities by the end of the month. Today, Tehran responded.

Let's get straight to CNN's Aneesh Raman, the only U.S. television network reporter in the Iranian capital.

Aneesh, what do you know?

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, if the world was looking for an direct yes or no answer from Iran today, they got anything but. A lengthy written reply, handed by Iran's chief nuclear negotiator to the countries who have backed the incentives deal, hoping to get Iran to suspend its nuclear program, as it is required to do by the end of the month by the U.N.

Within this reply, we understand Iran has offered a new formula to solve this entire issue and is calling, again, for strong negotiations to begin as early as tomorrow.

Now those countries, including the U.S., will likely say that strong negotiations have been taking place already, that this latest U.N. resolution brought an end to debates that weren't heading anywhere and forces Iran to suspend its nuclear program.

Iran was keen today to show that it is willing to compromise, as it said before, willing to find some solution towards what it has maintained is a peaceful civilian nuclear program, but within this text, it appears that it will fall far too short for U.N. Security Council countries that were looking for Iran to suspend that program by the end of month, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So you were out in the market today. Were Iranians following this closely? And what kind of response did you get from them?

RAMAN: Not at all. Some of them were coming up and asking us what news we were covering, unaware that their country was giving its response today. Today was a Muslim holiday, a national holiday in Iran, an auspicious one. So people were out with the day off celebrating, meeting friends, going to the mosque.

But we talked to some people at the market who did voice some concern that essentially they have no control over what their government does, that it's up to their leaders, but that this could lead to sanctions down the line. And there seems no indication Iran is willing to comply and suspend its nuclear program.

People are pretty much now bracing for the next storm to come, bracing for what is going to come next. There's decreasingly few people that think there's any solution really at hand on this issue, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: I don't know if you can talk on this, Aneesh, or not. But you mentioned just the date, August 22. As you know probably, there's been a lot of Internet web sites and articles that have been printed on this date, full of speculation that it could be a target date for terrorists, in commemoration of the return of the 12th imam, a supposed day of reckoning for Shiites.

Is that being talked about at all there in Iran? As you know, Iran's president has mentioned that date.

RAMAN: Yes, very important date, for all the reasons you just mentioned, that caused some speculation, given that Iran's president is a very religious man, someone that has talked about this vanished imam before.

On the ground, though, it's really treated just as a holiday, just as another Muslim day off that they go to the mosques, they celebrate. There was no real sense or concern that something big was going to happen, as was being suggested on some of these Internet sites.

It is, of course, not a coincidence, perhaps, that Iranian officials chose this date to give their response. They are keen to factor in the religion that exists within here into everything they view diplomatically. So clearly, they see that as part of the reason why today was the day for a nuclear response.

But again, two things to keep in mind, Kyra. Next week, we're going to hear from Iran's president at a rare news conference. He could change this response if he wants. And then later in the week is, of course, the U.N. deadline. And that is by when all of this has to be cleared up and the U.N. will take action if they choose to do so, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Aneesh Raman, live from Tehran.

John Mark Karr, the man suspected of killing JonBenet Ramsey, waives extradition. What comes next? How does the evidence stack up? We're going to cover all the angles. Our Dan Simon was in the courthouse. He'll join us live, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: About the only thing new that we know for sure right now in the JonBenet Ramsey case, John Mark Karr is headed to Boulder, Colorado.

CNN's Dan Simon was in the Los Angeles courtroom for Karr's extradition hearing.

Basically took about five minutes, Dan.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it all pretty much went according to plan. We were told it was going to be a short, routine hearing. And that's -- that's what it was.

Just some personal observations. John Karr, to me, looked to be stoic. He had a serious look on his face. He seemed respectful of the process. He addressed the judge as "sir." As expected, he waived extradition, which means at this point, he can be transferred to Boulder, Colorado, at any point. We're waiting to see actually when that transfer's going to take place.

Essentially, Boulder detectives need to pick him up and take him. We don't know if he's going to go on a commercial flight or a private plane. We're waiting to see what's going to happen there, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Dan Simon. We're looking actually -- do you say, Scott, these are live pictures?

Yes, we're looking at live pictures, Dan, right now, via one of our affiliates, KTTV in Los Angeles there. I guess waiting for John Mark Karr to leave the courtroom and head to -- like you said, to Boulder, Colorado.

Kind of reminds you a little bit of the O.J. Simpson case, where the helicopters followed every single move, Dan if you remember there, in Los Angeles, having flashbacks.

But, after this happens, how quickly do you think he could leave?

SIMON: Well, I think he could go as early as this afternoon. There's really no reason for him to stay at this point, unless for some reason the Boulder authorities want to delay something on their end. But as far as we know, he could leave now.

Kyra, one thing I thought that was particularly interesting is the public defender up there made it clear that they wanted John Karr to be able to put on civilian clothing, and that was denied. In some cases, attorneys will make that argument because they say it's prejudicial to the jury pool for a defendant to be wearing a jailhouse uniform.

And as you saw, he was wearing the orange uniform over at the county jail. It was a blue uniform. So they must -- do some sort of change for these court appearances. But, you know what, I've seen that quite often in cases where an attorney will make that request. And usually, it's denied, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Dan Simon in Los Angeles, thanks.

Well, could his penmanship earn him a stretch in the pen? We're going to compare a yearbook entry written by John Mark Karr to the ransom note found at the home of JonBenet Ramsey. Nancy Grace of CNN Headline News and Court TV is going to join us to check out the evidence right after this.

A tragedy over Ukraine. A Russian passenger jet crashes just minutes after sending an SOS. Our senior international correspondent, Matthew Chance, is following that story from Moscow.

Matthew, what can you tell us?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, another tragedy to affect Russia's airline industry and of course the passengers it carries.

The airliner was 30 minutes into its flight when it flew into a thunderstorm at more than 30,000 feet. It experienced severe turbulence, according to an SOS message that it sent moments before it crashed into an open area in the eastern area of Ukraine.

It was en route from a holiday resort on the Russian coast, towards the city of St. Petersburg. Dozens of children on board, at least 39, according to the airline. Six of them below the age of 2, apparently with their families on vacation, returning home from that vacation. So a really big tragedy, even by Russian standards.

It's by no means an isolated incident, though, I have to say. Just last month there was another big crash in Russia, in Siberia, with more than 120 people killed when an Airbus jetliner crashed in Siberia.

And so it seems that there are so many factors that come into play in this country -- poor maintenance, bad pilot training, aging fleets -- that are all being considered as possible factors in this latest tragedy -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So when you talk about the Russian standards and that Russian aviation and its industry, Matthew, not matching up, I guess are we comparing it to our industry, and for the most part, a strong record that the U.S. holds? Do they just not do the sort of checks and balances that we do here in the U.S.?

CHANCE: No, I don't think they do, certainly not for the domestic flights that you see fly all around, not just Russia, but the former Soviet Union. They've got a really checkered safety record, poor funding. Some of the airlines are very, very old and decrepit.

This airliner, the one that crashed today, a Tupolev 154 aircraft. A very good aircraft in lots of way, the work horse of the former Soviet Union. They fly a lot of them on routes inside the former Soviet states.

But this one was -- first went into service in 1992. It's had 24,000 hours of flight time. And this is by no means one of the older versions of that aircraft still in service.

In addition to that you've got all sorts of equipment problems that continually dog these old aircraft. And so these are the things the emergency teams on the ground now in eastern Ukraine are going to be looking into. First of all, they're going to be looking for the black box flight recorders, of course, to get a better idea of what it was that caused this particular crash -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Matthew Chance, appreciate it.

Well, same defendant, different charges. As a new trial begins, Saddam Hussein faces survivors of a horrific series of attacks in the 1980s. It's all ahead on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Most people who take medicine hope to avoid the side effects. But some patients want them. "The Wall Street Journal" reports that more and more Americans are turning to depression, epilepsy and diabetes drugs, not because they're depressed, epileptic or diabetic, but because those drugs can cause weight loss.

They are not approved as diet pills and there can be other riskier consequences, especially when taken without doctor's supervision.

Two new drug warnings to pass along. The first, one of the most popular medicines used to treat Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, or ADHD. The drugs include Ritalin and Dexedrine, which carry new warning labels, saying that they carry a possible risk of serious heart problems or even sudden death.

Well, investigators rely on black box data recorders to figure out what went wrong in plane clashes -- plane crashes. So why not car crashes? Susan Lisovicz, live from the New York Stock Exchange with that story.

That's an interesting concept, Susan.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is an interesting concept. And it's already in use far more than I think a lot of us had ever realized, Kyra.

Starting with 2011 model year vehicles, automakers will have to tell owners whether they have those black boxes in their cars. Technically, they're called event data recorders, and they provide information in the seconds before during and after a crash.

Specifically, they record the vehicle's speed and acceleration, whether air bags were deployed, the brakes were applied or seat belts were worn. Supporters of the black boxes say they can help investigators and automakers design better vehicle safety features and improve roads.

But some privacy experts worry that the information can be accessed by anyone, and they say that most drivers don't even know if their cars even have black boxes -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So how many cars have them installed?

LISOVICZ: A lot more than we knew. About 64 percent of the '05 model year vehicles have the equipment. GM and Ford already install the devices in virtually all new cars and trucks. The National Transportation Safety Board has recommended in the past that all vehicles should have them, but the new rules do not require that because the government doesn't want to impose what it calls unnecessary costs on the automakers.

They're dealing with quite a bit these days, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Wall Street dealing with quite a bit, as well.

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