Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

Handwriting Analysis of John Mark Karr; "American Idol" Auditions Head South to Birmingham

Aired August 22, 2006 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: So it's been 10 days, and possibly as soon as this afternoon, John Mark Karr will leave his Los Angeles jail cell for a trip to Boulder, Colorado.
That was decided in a brief and by the book extradition hearing you may have seen right here on LIVE FROM. Charges outlined by the judge include first degree murder, first degree kidnapping and sexual assault on a child, the child being JonBenet Ramsey.

Now, word by word, letter by letter, does a 10-year-old ransom note back up Karr's claims that he was with JonBenet the night she was killed? Last night, CNN's Nancy Grace spoke with a handwriting expert. Today, she joins me with the upshot.

All right, Nancy, what do you think? You went letter by letter.

NANCY GRACE, CNN HEADLINE NEWS: I did, I went letter by letter. And when I first saw the comparison, I was stunned because, frankly, you could drive a truck through the holes in this guy's story, but you can't get away from the evidence.

Now, just as many handwriting analysts that say it is a match to a ransom note say it's not. And I have introduced handwriting samples at court in felony cases before. It is a subjective science. The only way the prosecution is going to be able to prove this case is to place him in Boulder, which would be highly unusual for him -- his family says he was in Alabama -- and to get a DNA match.

PHILLIPS: All right. Let's look at the yearbook and the ransom note. You picked out letters A, D and E. Why?

GRACE: Well, if you take a look at the D to start with, it's very unusual. The D, as in delta, is a teardrop shape. The A that you're showing right now has an umbrella over the top. Very often, you'll see that in younger people. They lose it by the time they are adults. The E is similar with the cup at the bottom.

I was not at all impressed by the U except it does go upward on the right-hand side. The A, the E, the double L. There's a tail on the T. I wish you had a shot of the T. And, most importantly, in my mind, D as in delta. I, in fact, have never seen a D in all my years of handwriting analysis like the D in his handwriting.

PHILLIPS: What do you think about the handwriting analysis that is done to try and tell you about the person, about the psyche? Do you believe it? No? Yes? Uh-oh, how do I interpret the laugh? You say forget it.

GRACE: No way. No way. A, even if I did believe in it, it's not admissible into court. It's very rare that you're going to hear that in a court of law. Probably both sides would have to stipulate to it, very much like a polygraph. It's not going to happen.

As to the handwriting analysis, that is going to be a battle of the experts. One will say yes and one will say no. A jury would be left very nonplused by that evidence.

PHILLIPS: All right, talk to me about DNA. Apparently, a swab was taken in Thailand, but can that be used here in the United States or do they have to do their own?

GRACE: If they try to introduce that, I would expect a gigantic fight on behalf of the defense. I don't think it will come in. They're going to have to retake DNA. Bottom line, though, it's not a very difficult process at all. You have to get a warrant, unless the defendant agrees to give it. It's very simply like taking a Q-tip and rubbing it on the inner lining of the gum. That's the whole DNA test, pretty easy.

PHILLIPS: Why aren't we seeing a result now then? If it's so easy and it can happen quickly, why aren't we hearing about a DNA match or no match?

GRACE: Well, in the sample that was taken at the crime scene, you have a mixture of DNA. I'm making a calculated guess that that DNA is a mixture of JonBenet's and her killer's. So, they're going to have to be able to isolate the killer's DNA. Another thing ...

PHILLIPS: Interesting, you're saying killers, not killer. You're saying killer ...

GRACE: No, it would be killer as in possessive.

PHILLIPS: Got it. Got it.

GRACE: I think there was one killer. It's too fantastical to believe that more than one person broke into that home. Let's just break it down common sense wise.

In order to believe Karr's statement, you have to believe that he stayed in the home and hid while the Ramseys were away, that he sat in the bedroom and waited hidden while Patsy Ramsey came in and read a good night story, that then he got the girl to come willingly downstairs, fed her pineapple, went into a little known spot in the home, sexually tortured her and them killed her and the girl never cried out, then sat around -- think about this -- sat around lounging in the home writing a copious ransom note. Ridiculous.

PHILLIPS: So you're not buying any of that?

GRACE: I'm not buying one word of it. And I'm not afraid to go out on a limb. It's common sense. However, I cannot turn away from the hard evidence of this handwriting sample. Can't do it. PHILLIPS: Well, interesting. All right, what about his background. We're learning so much more about his bizarre background. The latest thing to come out today through ABC News is that his mother tried to kill him when he was a baby, and that his brother came to his rescue and that she later was put into a mental institution.

I mean, could it be that this guy is just, you know, crazed from the time that he was a child, had all these issues, and we're learning more about his family and that, you know, he just could be obsessed with these cases or with this child or with the death of this child because of everything that happened to him growing up?

GRACE: Friend, you and I see the world through two different sets of glasses. Everything I hear, I look at it as to how it will come out in court. I'm sorry the man may have been as a victim as a child, as an infant. In my mind, he probably doesn't even remember it, if the story is even true.

What I care about is how does it relate to the death of JonBenet Ramsey? Do I care? No. Unless he's going to mount an insanity defense, then I would be remotely interested in it.

But, listen, you heard his -- we're not his lawyers today on all the morning shows. They said he was lucid, he was intelligent, he was caring, he was sensitive. Most important, lucid. By their own statement, this guy is not going to even consider an insanity defense.

But, of course, we're jumping the gun. We got to get a DNA match, we got to get more than a possible handwriting sample. What happened to this guy as a child has no bearing, in my mind, on whether he killed JonBenet Ramsey.

PHILLIPS: It's just that salacious stuff that the media goes for, right, Nancy? Everybody always talks about this.

GRACE: Well, I think it may be more than that. If it -- while it is that, too, agreed. If it's true, number one, if it's true, believe me, any defense attorney worth their salt will say it over and over and over in front of a jury. Prediction? The jury will be just like me. They don't care. They care about who killed JonBenet Ramsey.

PHILLIPS: Are you paying attention to either one of his brothers, Nate or Michael, and are you paying attention to the fact that one of the brothers may have worked for the Ramsey family? Third question, are you paying attention to that part in the ransom note where it says "two gentlemen watching over your daughter." The fact that the number two comes up, who could that other player be?

GRACE: No. The fact that this ransom note says two gentlemen have been watching your daughter, to my mind, means absolutely nothing at this juncture. It also says it's from a small, foreign faction. It also names a number that was John Ramsey's bonus that year. It is full of inaccuracies and lies. It's clearly written -- it sounds like a fifth grader tried to write a novel. It's wacky. I don't accept any of it as true. But what I am paying attention to regarding the family, it would be highly probative to me if one of the brothers did work for Ramsey because that would corroborate part of what Karr is saying.

Speaking of the family, I also find it highly probative that the ex-wife says she was with him in Alabama at the time of JonBenet Ramsey's killing. Authorities have not been able to place him in Colorado. So there's a lot to be proven. And believe it or not, innocent until proven guilty. Yes, it hurts me to say it.

PHILLIPS: Perfect way to wrap it up, Nancy Grace. Thanks for your time today. I appreciate it.

GRACE: Goodbye, friend. See you tonight.

PHILLIPS: All right, absolutely. You can also see Nancy Grace in the afternoons on Court TV and, as she mentioned, tonight, 8:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN Headline News.

In this note. The Ramsey family and attorneys will join Larry King tonight. That's at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN.

A new twist in the case of a recaptured inmate accused of killing two people while on the run in Virginia. The brother of Charles Morva has also been arrested. Michael Morva is charged with conspiracy in the escape.

Here's he just told reporters after a court appearance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL MORVA, BROTHER OF MURDER SUSPECT: My brother is the killer, all right? I didn't do anything. I'm not -- wasn't a part of it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You didn't help plan it?

MORVA: No, I did not help plan it. I didn't do anything wrong, all right? The police came, knocked on my door at 3:00 in the morning when I was asleep and woke me up and told me what had happened. I had nothing to do with this. This is wrong! This is wrong! You know, this is wrong. Why am I here?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: As you can remember, the Corporal Eric Sutphin was the deputy that was killed at the Virginia Tech campus yesterday, his patrol car now a makeshift memorial. Investigators say Charles Morva will be charged in that killing, and he, too, is expected in court today.

Let's get straight to the newsroom. Tony Harris, what you working on?

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Kyra, a bit earlier today, two trains carrying primarily building supplies in the Miami area collided at slow speed, we understand. OK, here are the pictures from a short time ago. And some of the cars actually derailed. We understand that all the workers are on the trains are accounted for, and we have no reports -- a bit of good news -- no reports of any injuries.

Some of the cargo from the train actually spilled, but so far there's no indication that anything hazardous was on the trains. And no indication of any problem with kind of automobile traffic in and out of the area. We understand the airport, the international airport, is close by. But as you probably saw from that wider shot, no indication that the traffic pattern has been impacted at all by this derailment.

But as you can see, this is quite a mess and a number of cars actually derailed. You can see the head of at least worker who was on the scene there, processing that scene. But the good news is, no reports of any injuries and at least, at this point, no initial reports of any hazardous materials on any of those rail cars, Kyra. But we'll keep an eye on the situation.

PHILLIPS: Great, Tony, thanks.

HARRIS: Sure thing.

PHILLIPS: Well, it's something that the world has been waiting for, Iran's answer to the U.N.'s nuclear ultimatum, and it came today. CNN has the only U.S. television reporter working in Tehran. His report, straight ahead on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Wildfires in Greece. A German tourist is dead, dozens of others suffer burns and breathing problems in fires that have so far blackened 12,000 acres and 50 homes. Thousands of tourists have sped up their travel plans with smoke at their backs. Fire crews are said to be gaining ground today.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, speaking of hot, entertainment news with A.J. Hammer of "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT." A.J., what's on tap?

A.J. HAMMER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: You're talking about the news, I am certain, Kyra.

"American Idol" tapping out the talent from Birmingham, Alabama. Tim McGraw is soon going to be setting sail.

And the "Beerfest" was happening in L.A. last night.

I'll fill you in when LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well when it comes to searching for stars, it helps to go straight to the source. So "American Idol" heads south. For details on that and the rest of the entertainment news, A.J. Hammer of "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT." Hey, A.J.

HAMMER: Hey, Kyra. If you look at the people who've scored big on "American Idol," it really does seem that Birmingham, Alabama is a hot bed of talent for these guys. The producers from the hit show are there all this week holding auditions for the newest season of the reality show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN SEACREST, HOST, AMERICAN IDOL: Well, I'm glad somebody showed up because without all these people, we'd be in big trouble this season. But I think this is going to be an excellent season. Hopefully we'll find some great talent in there. I know there are some people who are fantastic and then there are probably some that aren't so fantastic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAMMER: Now he usually doesn't show up. That of course is host Ryan Seacrest. He made a special appearance in the talented town yesterday. It is usually a little further along in the audition process before the stars of the show begin to show.

But more than 8,000 "A.I" hopefuls showed up dreaming of being the next "American Idol." In fact, two out of the five previous winners are from Birmingham. Ruben Studdard calls the town home and Taylor Hicks is from a nearby suburb.

Well the hottest summer act this year is country superstar couple Tim McGraw and Faith Hill. The Grammy winners on the road with their "Soul II Soul" tour. Last Friday in Los Angeles, the one millionth ticket holder passed through the turnstiles and won a brand-new car. Next, you can go sailing with McGraw.

That's right in, January the singer is going to captain the stage on the country cruise get away. They're doing a three-day high seas adventure. Now if you go, you're really going to get to know Tim McGraw because they're going to have question and answer sessions in addition to the live performances. If you want some details on this, you can go to countrycruisegetaway.com.

Well the ice cold beer was flowing in Hollywood last night for the premiere of the comedy "Beerfest." The guys from the Broken Lizard comedy team, who also brought the hilarious "Super Troopers" wrote and star in the big screen drinking game. Apparently, it came from their own college experiences. "Beerfest" opens nationwide on Friday.

Now, Kyra, I want you to pay close attention to what we have coming up tonight on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" and see if you can deduce what I'm talking about because we're going to be delving into an exclusive club. The members enter only to emerge feeling younger and looking decades younger and feeling sexier than ever.

I'm talking about people like Cher, Sylvester Stallone, Dolly Parton, Bill Clinton, Diane Keaton even President Bush, members of this particular club. Any idea what I'm talking about?

PHILLIPS: Oh my goodness, no. Don't they already look great, and sexy and young and all of that?

HAMMER: And there's a reason for that and them being part of this particular club. You will find out what that club is, Kyra, and whoever is watching and how you can get inside, only on T.V.'s most provocative entertainment news show, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT," 11:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN Headline Prime. How was that for a tease?

PHILLIPS: Man, does it have to do with Ponce De Leon somehow?

HAMMER: It has nothing to do with Mr. De Leon.

PHILLIPS: OK, so question, what college did you go to?

HAMMER: I went to the University of Hartford in West Hartford, Connecticut, majored in philosophy and yes, there was beer involved.

PHILLIPS: There was -- OK. Well, I'm looking through the list here, I don't think it made this list, but majored in philosophy, huh?

HAMMER: I did.

PHILLIPS: Wow, we're going to have to talk about the meaning of life some time.

HAMMER: I have lots to say.

PHILLIPS: I'm sure you do, A.J.

PHILLIPS: All right, well listen to this. College kids heading back to campus, some may be looking forward to it more than others, and here's why. Students at the University of Texas Austin for instance, this year's top party school in the nation.

We won't mention that our Ed Lavandera went there, as ranked by the Princeton Review. The longhorns are followed by Penn State, West Virginia, the University of Wisconsin Madison, is that the Beastie Boys, Scott? All right -- the University of Mississippi.

Well, the stop stone cold sober schools, Brigham Young, Wheaton College, College of the Ozarks, Grove City College and the U.S. Naval Academy. Hmm, I'll talk to two of my friends about that.

OK, coming up, a teacher ignites outrage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think I'm asking the same question that many other parents are asking that I know the school administrators and students are asking and faculty. What was this guy thinking?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Now, what a teacher set on fire and who got burned? Civics lesson backlash when LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com