Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Today

Reactions To Al-Jazeera's Bin Laden Tape

Aired February 01, 2002 - 10:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Here on CNN, an extraordinary piece of videotape. An interview with Osama bin Laden, recorded back in late October, by the Arabic language Al-Jazeera Television Network. They did not air it, saying it was not newsworthy. CNN has now obtained a copy and parts of the one hour interview CNN found very newsworthy.

Wolf Blitzer now takes us through the latest chapter on Osama bin Laden.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Late October, in the only television interview with Osama bin Laden since the September 11 attacks, broadcast here for the first time, he makes clear the war of terror is not finished.

OSAMA BIN LADEN: The battle has moved to inside America. We will work to continue this battle, God permitting, until victory, or until we meet God.

BLITZER: And he paints a grim picture for life under his terror threat.

BIN LADEN: I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people and the West in general into an unbearable hell and a choking life.

BLITZER: The interview with Osama bin Laden was conducted by the Kabul reporter for the Arabic language Al-Jazeera television network. It took place just before the U.S. and its allies began their final rout of the Taliban, before bin Laden and al Qaeda's leadership fled for their lives.

The reporter's first question, about bin Laden's role September 11.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: America claims it has convincing evidence of your collusion in the events in New York and Washington. What is your answer?

BIN LADEN: America has made many accusations against us and many other Muslims around the world. Its charge that we are carrying out acts of terrorism is unwarranted.

BLITZER: That may sound like a denial, but listen to what he says only moments later.

BIN LADEN: If inciting people to do that is terrorism, and if killing those who kill our sons is terrorism, then let history be witness that we are terrorists.

BLITZER: A slightly different translation was quoted by British Prime Minister Tony Blair in a speech to parliament last November.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Bin Laden himself said on October the 20 in an broadcast videotape that, and I quote, "If avenging the killing of our people is terrorism, let history be a witness that we are terrorists." Mr. Speaker, they are terrorists and history will judge them as such.

BLITZER: Blair's speech is evidence that copies of this videotape have circulated for some time in intelligence circles on both sides of the Atlantic, though until now it has never been seen in public. Intelligence sources tell CNN the U.S. government independently obtained the interview shortly after it was completed.

CNN obtained this copy of the tape from a non-governmental source.

(on camera): Al-Jazeera says it does not know precisely where the interview was taped. It has not aired the tape. Early on, the network even denied its existence. It says it was offered the chance to do the interview in person after the news organization submitted written questions to bin Laden, including some questions from CNN.

But CNN did not know about the taping until a ``New York Times'' story revealed the interview's existence.

In a December statement to CNN, Al-Jazeera said it did not air the interview because it did not meet its standards and was not newsworthy.

In the interview, bin Laden was asked directly whether he's responsible for the anthrax attacks in the United States and elsewhere, but his answer is vague.

BIN LADEN: These diseases are a punishment from God and a response to oppressed mothers' prayers in Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine and everywhere.

BLITZER: The reporter seems to have a professional rapport with bin Laden and even interrupts him to ask questions, as in this exchange.

BIN LADEN: We kill the kings of the infidels, kings of the crusaders and civilian infidels in exchange for those of our children they killed. This is permissible in Islamic law, and logically...

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So what you're saying is this is a type of reciprocal treatment -- they kill our innocents, so we kill their innocents?

BIN LADEN: So we kill their innocents. And I say it's permissible in Islamic law and logic.

BLITZER: This tape is different from a series of taped addresses bin Laden delivered to Al-Jazeera. During this one hour interview, bin Laden ridicules White House requests to the U.S. news media to show discretion in broadcasting those addresses.

BIN LADEN: They made hilarious claims. They said that Osama's messages have codes in them to the terrorists. It's as if we were living in the time of mail by carrier pigeon, when there were no phones, no travelers, no Internet, no regular mail, no express mail and no electronic mail. I mean these are very humorous things. They discount people's intellects.

BLITZER: Bin Laden himself discounts the possibility of the defeat of his forces. Remember, this was late October, before the street celebrations that marked the fall of Kabul, well before the new head of Afghanistan's interim government was saluted at President Bush's State of the Union address.

BIN LADEN: We believe that the defeat of America is possible with the help of God and is even easier for us, God permitting, than the defeat of the Soviet Union was.

BLITZER: To back that up, bin Laden cites the 1993 U.S. experience in Somalia, when 18 U.S. special operations forces were killed during a raid against a warlord faction in Mogadishu.

BIN LADEN: Our brothers who were here in Afghanistan tested the Americans and together with some of the Somali Mujahedeen, God granted them victory. America exited, dragging its tails in failure, defeat and ruin.

BLITZER: These words, evidence of bin Laden's miscalculation. Throughout the tape, bin Laden appears confident of success, confident of victory. He apparently did not foresee that within days he would be running for his life.

Wolf Blitzer, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Now, Al-Jazeera has responded to our airing of this interview with a statement. Reading it now, quoting now.

"Al-Jazeera refuses to appear on CNN to discuss its unaired interview with Osama bin Laden. Al-Jazeera denounces the fact that CNN resorts to such illegal ways to obtain this tape."

"Al-Jazeera would have expected CNN to use its judgment and respect it's special relationship with Al-Jazeera by not airing material that Al-Jazeera itself chose not to broadcast."

It continues.

"Al-Jazeera does not feel it's obligated to explain its position and its reasoning of why it chose not to air the interview. Al- Jazeera will nonetheless respond to CNN's airing of the interview using its own means and its own ways."

"Furthermore, Al-Jazeera will sever its relationship with CNN and will take the necessary action to punish the organizations and individuals who stole this video and distributed it illegally." End quote. There from Al-Jazeera.

Here is CNN's response now. "The network here did nothing illegal in obtaining this tape and nothing illegal in airing it. Our affiliate agreement with Al-Jazeera gives us the express right to use any and all footage owned or controlled by Al-Jazeera, without limitation." Again, the response from CNN.

Let's talk more about it and more perspective from someone with vast counter-terrorism experience in both government circles and the private sector.

J. Paul Bremer spent 23 years in diplomatic service and focuses largely on crisis management, an expertise he now markets in private industry. Mr. Bremer currently Chairman and CEO of Marsh Crisis Consulting. Sir, good morning to you. Nice to see you again.

J. PAUL BREMER, COUNTERTERRORISM EXPERT: What do you make of that?

BREMER: Well, I find the fight between CNN and Al-Jazeera really sort of "Inside Baseball" for the journalistic community.

HEMMER: I'm not talking about the disagreement between the networks. I'm talking about the videotape itself.

BREMER: I think the videotape shows what, basically, bin Laden is using the themes he's been using for some years now. The extremist theme of chasing the "crusaders" -- as he calls them -- out of the holy lands. The excusing of killing of innocents, taking credit for the killing of American soldiers in Somalia and, of course, his vast arrogance in assuming that by driving the Soviets out of Afghanistan, he'll find it even easier to defeat the United States. He is certainly wrong about that.

HEMMER: Yeah, Paul, he did not directly say, "I did it," referring to September 11th. He bites around the edges though. What does that indicate to you?

BREMER: Oh, I don't find that -- that's consistent with what he said back on October 7th, in the very first interview he did. And again, the one he did in December. He is just playing around the edges. I don't think there's any question he was responsible. There -- never been any doubt.

HEMMER: Osama bin laden appears, to me, to be to be a very comfortable man in front of a camera. And I have thought, and said for some time, that there are more videotapes out there, in addition to this one that we knew existed. It was just a question of seeing it and watching it over the past three months. Would it surprise you that we find more video tapes? BREMER: No. I wouldn't be surprised. He apparently, as you say, is he comfortable before cameras. We know that he allowed other people to privately video some of his discussions. We have seen one of those at least. So, it's quite possible we'll find more evidence of videos.

HEMMER: What explains Al-Jazeera sitting on this tape? Anything?

BREMER: I think, really, you have to pursue that question with them. It seems to me that, in the time frame, back in October -- late October, one could argue that there was some news in this, in the sense of how he, in effect, at least implicitly took credit for the September 11th attacks. He certainly declared that he's prepared to kill innocent Americans. Although he has said that for some years.

HEMMER: Yesterday, Terry Anderson, the American held captive in Lebanon for the better part of seven years, starting back in 1985, told me yesterday that he thinks there's a huge gulf of misunderstanding between many parts of the world in how western journalists operate. In essence, going back to the Daniel Pearl case, it could be, in fact, that when a journalist is drilling and grilling questions, it may appear, in effect, that they might be, perhaps, a spy, but that's the way we operate. Is there a possibility of there's just a flat-out misunderstanding between Al-Jazeera in Qatar, out of Kabul, and what we in the U.S. and other parts of western Europe might anticipate, given a certain reaction to this videotape?

BREMER: Of course, many of the countries that we are talking about are not familiar with idea of the freedom of press as we have had in the United States for our history. And, so, it's often hard for them to understand that a journalist, like Pearl, is, in fact, operating perfectly legitimately without any government connections. It is a problem.

HEMMER: What's going to happen here with Danny Pearl? Is there anything right now the U.S. or Pakistani authorities can do to obtain his relief and do it safely?

BREMER: The most important thing we can do is find out who's him and go in and rescue him, hopefully, safely. I think there's no question that we can not give in to his demands. To do so would be to put in danger the lives of other American journalists and American citizens everywhere. We can't give in to hostage takers.

HEMMER: One more thing here. Want to go back to the bin Laden videotape. People are going to dissect this tape based on how he looks, and granted, this was late October, three months ago. But, again, I notice he was not moving his left arm. People will start looking at the color of his beard. A lot of people thought when an earlier tape came out, that this man had aged quite a bit. Where do we go from here when we look at certain physical traits with Osama bin Laden and this tape we're watching?

BREMER: I'm sure that our government experts had been looking very closely at this and the other tapes. This tape, I think, has been in the hands of our government since -- for some months. And they'll be doing an analysis, both the psychologists and the medical doctors will be doing a very careful analysis of this plus the others we've seen.

HEMMER: Paul, thanks. Paul Bremer. Live with us this morning. Much appreciate your thoughts. Very nice.

BREMER: Nice to be with you again.

HEMMER: We'll talk to you again, okay.

Want to get to the White House right now, quickly.

Major Garrett standing by with us now, live this morning. Major, any reaction thus far from administration officials on what we're talking about here?

MAJOR GARRETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Indeed there is, Bill. Just got off the phone with Ari Fleischer, the White House Press Secretary. I read directly what he said.

"Everybody knows how evil Osama bin Laden is. Other tapes have shown him take credit for and have shown he had advance knowledge of the terrorist attacks on September 11th."

He said this tape just shows again the importance of completing the mission to protect freedom. A mission, Ari Fleischer underscored, is bigger than Osama bin Laden. Ari Fleischer told me that here at the White House, there hasn't been heavy, analysis of this tape. Part of a concerted White House effort it make it clear to us and to anyone else who asks, that again the mission against terrorism of global reach goes beyond Osama bin Laden, and the White House is trying to give every indication it is not obsessed with Osama bin Laden's whereabouts or future. Confident that eventually he will be found. But they don't want to give the impression, in any way, Bill, that they stay awake at night wondering about where he is.

HEMMER: Got it. Watching President Bush on videotape a short time ago, heading out for the Greenbriar Resort in West Virginia. We can talk about that and also more reaction on Daniel Pearl. What is the White House saying this morning, Major, on the possibility of his story ending in a positive and optimistic way?

GARRETT: Well, we'll go right to the top of the White House food chain, Bill. The president himself in the Oval Office with King Abdullah of Jordan, an important meeting this morning on the Middle East. The president took a question about Daniel Pearl, who said, the president did, that he was on the phone this morning with the FBI Director Robert Mueller, talking about what was known about the Daniel Pearl case. And he said that there are some potential leads dealing with e-mails that have come from this group that is holding Daniel Pearl hostage.

The president wouldn't go much further than that, but he said Pakistani intelligence officials, U.S. intelligence officials are following those leads very aggressively. The United States and the Pakistani government, the president said, are doing everything they can to obtain his safe release. Here are the president's comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are working with the Pakistani government to chase down any leads possible. For example, we re trying to follow the trail of the e-mails that have been sent, with the sole purpose of saving this man. Finding him and rescuing him. We have been in touch with the "Wall Street Journal" and obviously we are deeply concerned. And as is the Pakistani government. And we will continue to do everything we can to rescue him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GARRETT: Bill, everything the U.S. Government can, short of acceding to the demands of those who are holding Daniel Pearl captive. Secretary of State Colin Powell made it very clear yesterday that the demands from that group are simply nonnegotiable. The administration and the Pakistani government will be trying to pursue Daniel Pearl's freedom in other ways.

HEMMER: Major, thanks. Talk next hour. Major Harris (sic) there live, at the White House this morning.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com