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Terrorist Capture Very Important

Aired March 03, 2003 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Up first this hour on CNN, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. If Osama bin Laden is al Qaeda's chairman of the board, then Mohammed may very well be the CEO. Federal agents are vigorously questioning him today about any attacks that were on the drawing board. Also about Osama bin Laden's whereabouts.
Our national security correspondent, David Ensor, is in Washington this morning -- David, good morning.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn. As you say, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is currently undergoing his second day of questioning by officials at an undisclosed location outside the U.S. and outside Pakistan, officials say. They say that all appropriate pressure will be put on the al Qaeda operations chief to reveal what he knows about future plots to attack Americans or others.

There are unconfirmed reports that al Qaeda documents or computer files may have been retrieved along with Mohammed in the house in Rawalpindi where he was seized. Intelligence officials declined comment on that, though one source is telling CNN Justice Department Correspondent Kelli Arena that -- quote -- "a treasure trove" of information has been captured.

As you can see here, the FBI's most wanted Web site now lists Mohammed as located.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Khalid Shaikh Mohammed's disappearance, getting him off the streets, whether he talks or not is incredibly important, because here is somebody who was very active, and had several different plans going at once, whether they were plans to attack American targets in Southeast Asia, plans to attack Americans inside the United States, etcetera. So getting him off the streets will mean, I think, almost certainly that some attacks will be averted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ENSOR: U.S. officials say all the other top al Qaeda leaders the U.S. now holds, including Mohammed deputy Ramzi Binalshibh -- you see him here -- he was taken after a gun battle in Karachi. All of them are now cooperating with their interrogators to one degree or another, supplying useful intelligence. So it may take time, they say, but they do expect Khalid Shaikh Mohammed to cooperate as well -- Daryn. KAGAN: Well, David, the search for Khalid Shaikh Mohammed has been going on for years. One way, as I understand, that he's been able to elude capture, and we can put the picture up. This guy is able to change his appearance. Look at those -- that looks like three completely different men. Also understand that he's really good at escaping.

ENSOR: He has been good at getting away from the word go. He's an extraordinary elusive figure, someone that U.S. intelligence didn't really realize the importance of, the significance of. The fact that he was in many ways the brains of the operation was not apparent until relatively recently. That's right.

KAGAN: And why now? Has it taken this focus on him? Has it taken capturing other people to lead to him?

ENSOR: You know, they're not willing to say. There was an Egyptian captured in Quetta in Pakistan not long before. There have been some reports suggesting that perhaps that led to this capture, but U.S. intelligence officials are just not willing to say.

KAGAN: All right. David Ensor in Washington, thank you. We move on with what now? The government could chose to try Khalid Shaikh Mohammed in federal court or before a military tribunal.

Let's bring in our legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, to talk about those too. He's live in New York this morning -- Jeff, good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Daryn.

KAGAN: Let's look at some of these choices here. First of all, the choice -- well, first of all, he's already under indictment. So that's ahead of the game of a lot of people who have been taken into custody. Why is that significant?

TOOBIN: Well, it would be easy to just bring him to New York, where he's under indictment, and just try him. That's putting it simply. It would actually be very complex because the security arrangements, the criminal process which would involve determining whether there's any statements he made were conformed with the Miranda rule, allowing him access to discovery information. All of that suggests to me that there is virtually no chance he will be brought to the United States for a conventional criminal trial.

KAGAN: Other problem with the criminal trial, the kind of information that becomes public that a lot of officials would not like to see.

TOOBIN: Absolutely. It would become public in the course of the trial, but every criminal defendant is entitled to see the government's evidence in advance. This is one of the things that has held up the Zacarias Moussaoui trial, which is basically on hold now in Virginia. The government is simply unwilling to let a defendant, who is part of al Qaeda, allegedly, see what the government has, and you can understand why. KAGAN: Well, let's go back and revisit an option that we talked about so many months ago over and over again, the military tribunal. Has that ever been completely defined as to how that would be carried out?

TOOBIN: Well, no. Coincidentally, just on Friday, the Department of Defense released its first draft of what crimes were eligible. And if you look at what the planners had in kind, Khalid Mohammed is the textbook case for a military tribunal, a high level al Qaeda operative who is involved in these major, major terrorist acts. The advantage of a military tribunal is that it is completely under the control of the military. It can be conducted overseas. It can be conducted on a ship. And the entire process, including through to execution, if that's what's decided on, could take place without any of the news even becoming public.

KAGAN: OK. Well, that's the what, or the who, who would qualify. But have they completely defined the what and the how?

TOOBIN: Well, they define 24 different crimes. Basically, involvement in terrorist acts is the umbrella crime in their more specific definitions.

Clearly, given what's been said about Mohammed, he would be -- he would qualify. He's the kind of person who, if the government has the proof, they would want to bring him before this.

KAGAN: No, I understand that part. But the part -- they were still trying to figure out how you do a military tribunal, the actual process.

TOOBIN: That has not been fully spelled out. There would be a defense counsel, there would be a prosecutor, all of whom would be part of the military. And that is similar to the way court martials work. There would be kind of a rudimentary appeals process. That is built in. But in terms of how much -- how evidence is admissible, who could testify, whether the defense would have access to calling witnesses. That has not been spelled out, and that's one of the real worries that the government has in terms of being thought to railroad these people into, potentially, execution. That's why I think they move very slowly, and there have been no military tribunals so far.

KAGAN: Jeffrey Toobin in New York. Thank you for letting us -- being with us to look at the different options -- Leon.

TOOBIN: See you, Daryn.

LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the White House says it's hard to overstate the significance of Mohammed's arrest, and it is a major topic of discussion at the executive mansion this morning. We found that out already.

Let's go back now to our White House correspondent, Dana Bash. She has got the latest for us right now this hour -- hello, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Leon. Well, that is right. The White House is extremely pleased about this arrest, saying that it's a very big blow to al Qaeda. And the White House is making sure to praise the man in charge of the country where this arrest took place, that is President Musharraf of Pakistan.

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer saying that this is a very serious development, a blow to al Qaeda, and the president is appreciative to Pakistan for the fine efforts they have been carrying out in the war against terror, and their fine work in this most recent success.

So this is something that the White House is definitely playing up, talking about the importance of it. It also, Leon, comes at a time where there has been a lot of criticism from Democrats, especially, saying that the White House has been way too focused on Iraq, not been focused enough on trying to capture the leaders of al Qaeda, and that the focus on Iraq had been taking away from the war on terrorism. So this is a big plus for the White House, especially at a time, like I said, where the criticism really was growing, was mounting, on that issue.

HARRIS: All right. The criticism mounting because of some diplomatic snafus that have plagued the administration, and one of them has been in Turkey. What's the latest on that situation?

BASH: Well, the White House is being intentionally kind of circumspect on the issue. They are admitting here, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer admitted, that they were definitely surprised by the vote, just like they said the Turkish leaders were surprised by the vote. But they are intentionally saying -- maintaining kind of a calm demeanor on this, saying that NATO is an important ally, a key NATO ally, that Turkey is. And that even if Turkey, in the end, does not allow the U.S. to use its country as a staging area to the north of Iraq, that they are convinced, of course, that the U.S. will succeed militarily in any campaign against Turkey (sic).

The other thing that they are -- that Ari Fleischer said this morning is -- was asked about whether or not this massive multi- billion dollar aid package that had been worked out over the past couple of weeks, in really a grueling and quite public way, whether that will be scrapped if Turkey, in the end, doesn't allow the U.S. to use its country. He was very cautious in saying that, Well, Turkey is an important ally, and that it will incur costs because of its proximity to Iraq, if there is a war with Iraq. So, did not rule out that giving up on that aid package regardless of what Turkey does.

HARRIS: Interesting. Thanks, Dana. Dana Bash at the White House.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired March 3, 2003 - 11:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Up first this hour on CNN, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. If Osama bin Laden is al Qaeda's chairman of the board, then Mohammed may very well be the CEO. Federal agents are vigorously questioning him today about any attacks that were on the drawing board. Also about Osama bin Laden's whereabouts.
Our national security correspondent, David Ensor, is in Washington this morning -- David, good morning.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn. As you say, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is currently undergoing his second day of questioning by officials at an undisclosed location outside the U.S. and outside Pakistan, officials say. They say that all appropriate pressure will be put on the al Qaeda operations chief to reveal what he knows about future plots to attack Americans or others.

There are unconfirmed reports that al Qaeda documents or computer files may have been retrieved along with Mohammed in the house in Rawalpindi where he was seized. Intelligence officials declined comment on that, though one source is telling CNN Justice Department Correspondent Kelli Arena that -- quote -- "a treasure trove" of information has been captured.

As you can see here, the FBI's most wanted Web site now lists Mohammed as located.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Khalid Shaikh Mohammed's disappearance, getting him off the streets, whether he talks or not is incredibly important, because here is somebody who was very active, and had several different plans going at once, whether they were plans to attack American targets in Southeast Asia, plans to attack Americans inside the United States, etcetera. So getting him off the streets will mean, I think, almost certainly that some attacks will be averted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ENSOR: U.S. officials say all the other top al Qaeda leaders the U.S. now holds, including Mohammed deputy Ramzi Binalshibh -- you see him here -- he was taken after a gun battle in Karachi. All of them are now cooperating with their interrogators to one degree or another, supplying useful intelligence. So it may take time, they say, but they do expect Khalid Shaikh Mohammed to cooperate as well -- Daryn. KAGAN: Well, David, the search for Khalid Shaikh Mohammed has been going on for years. One way, as I understand, that he's been able to elude capture, and we can put the picture up. This guy is able to change his appearance. Look at those -- that looks like three completely different men. Also understand that he's really good at escaping.

ENSOR: He has been good at getting away from the word go. He's an extraordinary elusive figure, someone that U.S. intelligence didn't really realize the importance of, the significance of. The fact that he was in many ways the brains of the operation was not apparent until relatively recently. That's right.

KAGAN: And why now? Has it taken this focus on him? Has it taken capturing other people to lead to him?

ENSOR: You know, they're not willing to say. There was an Egyptian captured in Quetta in Pakistan not long before. There have been some reports suggesting that perhaps that led to this capture, but U.S. intelligence officials are just not willing to say.

KAGAN: All right. David Ensor in Washington, thank you. We move on with what now? The government could chose to try Khalid Shaikh Mohammed in federal court or before a military tribunal.

Let's bring in our legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, to talk about those too. He's live in New York this morning -- Jeff, good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Daryn.

KAGAN: Let's look at some of these choices here. First of all, the choice -- well, first of all, he's already under indictment. So that's ahead of the game of a lot of people who have been taken into custody. Why is that significant?

TOOBIN: Well, it would be easy to just bring him to New York, where he's under indictment, and just try him. That's putting it simply. It would actually be very complex because the security arrangements, the criminal process which would involve determining whether there's any statements he made were conformed with the Miranda rule, allowing him access to discovery information. All of that suggests to me that there is virtually no chance he will be brought to the United States for a conventional criminal trial.

KAGAN: Other problem with the criminal trial, the kind of information that becomes public that a lot of officials would not like to see.

TOOBIN: Absolutely. It would become public in the course of the trial, but every criminal defendant is entitled to see the government's evidence in advance. This is one of the things that has held up the Zacarias Moussaoui trial, which is basically on hold now in Virginia. The government is simply unwilling to let a defendant, who is part of al Qaeda, allegedly, see what the government has, and you can understand why. KAGAN: Well, let's go back and revisit an option that we talked about so many months ago over and over again, the military tribunal. Has that ever been completely defined as to how that would be carried out?

TOOBIN: Well, no. Coincidentally, just on Friday, the Department of Defense released its first draft of what crimes were eligible. And if you look at what the planners had in kind, Khalid Mohammed is the textbook case for a military tribunal, a high level al Qaeda operative who is involved in these major, major terrorist acts. The advantage of a military tribunal is that it is completely under the control of the military. It can be conducted overseas. It can be conducted on a ship. And the entire process, including through to execution, if that's what's decided on, could take place without any of the news even becoming public.

KAGAN: OK. Well, that's the what, or the who, who would qualify. But have they completely defined the what and the how?

TOOBIN: Well, they define 24 different crimes. Basically, involvement in terrorist acts is the umbrella crime in their more specific definitions.

Clearly, given what's been said about Mohammed, he would be -- he would qualify. He's the kind of person who, if the government has the proof, they would want to bring him before this.

KAGAN: No, I understand that part. But the part -- they were still trying to figure out how you do a military tribunal, the actual process.

TOOBIN: That has not been fully spelled out. There would be a defense counsel, there would be a prosecutor, all of whom would be part of the military. And that is similar to the way court martials work. There would be kind of a rudimentary appeals process. That is built in. But in terms of how much -- how evidence is admissible, who could testify, whether the defense would have access to calling witnesses. That has not been spelled out, and that's one of the real worries that the government has in terms of being thought to railroad these people into, potentially, execution. That's why I think they move very slowly, and there have been no military tribunals so far.

KAGAN: Jeffrey Toobin in New York. Thank you for letting us -- being with us to look at the different options -- Leon.

TOOBIN: See you, Daryn.

LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the White House says it's hard to overstate the significance of Mohammed's arrest, and it is a major topic of discussion at the executive mansion this morning. We found that out already.

Let's go back now to our White House correspondent, Dana Bash. She has got the latest for us right now this hour -- hello, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Leon. Well, that is right. The White House is extremely pleased about this arrest, saying that it's a very big blow to al Qaeda. And the White House is making sure to praise the man in charge of the country where this arrest took place, that is President Musharraf of Pakistan.

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer saying that this is a very serious development, a blow to al Qaeda, and the president is appreciative to Pakistan for the fine efforts they have been carrying out in the war against terror, and their fine work in this most recent success.

So this is something that the White House is definitely playing up, talking about the importance of it. It also, Leon, comes at a time where there has been a lot of criticism from Democrats, especially, saying that the White House has been way too focused on Iraq, not been focused enough on trying to capture the leaders of al Qaeda, and that the focus on Iraq had been taking away from the war on terrorism. So this is a big plus for the White House, especially at a time, like I said, where the criticism really was growing, was mounting, on that issue.

HARRIS: All right. The criticism mounting because of some diplomatic snafus that have plagued the administration, and one of them has been in Turkey. What's the latest on that situation?

BASH: Well, the White House is being intentionally kind of circumspect on the issue. They are admitting here, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer admitted, that they were definitely surprised by the vote, just like they said the Turkish leaders were surprised by the vote. But they are intentionally saying -- maintaining kind of a calm demeanor on this, saying that NATO is an important ally, a key NATO ally, that Turkey is. And that even if Turkey, in the end, does not allow the U.S. to use its country as a staging area to the north of Iraq, that they are convinced, of course, that the U.S. will succeed militarily in any campaign against Turkey (sic).

The other thing that they are -- that Ari Fleischer said this morning is -- was asked about whether or not this massive multi- billion dollar aid package that had been worked out over the past couple of weeks, in really a grueling and quite public way, whether that will be scrapped if Turkey, in the end, doesn't allow the U.S. to use its country. He was very cautious in saying that, Well, Turkey is an important ally, and that it will incur costs because of its proximity to Iraq, if there is a war with Iraq. So, did not rule out that giving up on that aid package regardless of what Turkey does.

HARRIS: Interesting. Thanks, Dana. Dana Bash at the White House.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com