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CNN Live Today

Discussing Court-Martial of Jeremy Sivits

Aired May 19, 2004 - 10:54   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to get back to the Senate Armed Service Committee in just a moment. The top three U.S. military commanders in Iraq are currently testifying before that committee. This takes place on the day that the first court-martial took place in Baghdad of the soldiers that are accused in the prison abuse scandal so far.
Let's go ahead and bring in Professor Scott Silliman from Duke University, former Air Force attorney, to talk about what happened in the court-martial of Jeremy Sivits earlier today.

Professor, good morning. Thanks for being with us.

SCOTT SILIMAN, DUKE UNIV.: Good morning, Daryn. How are you?

He pleaded guilty, found guilty. His punishment will be a year in jail, demotion and a discharge for bad conduct. Is that light, considering the charges he was facing?

SILIMAN: Well, Daryn, it's probably going to disappoint a lot of folks in the Arab community who were hoping for a greater sentence. But as your viewers know, that's the maximum sentence that that particular court could have awarded, a bad conduct discharge, one year confinement. The judge did not take any money from Sivits because of concern for his family, but reduction down to private.

But that's not the end of the story, Daryn. The convening authority. That commander that created that court for Sivits, still has to approve the finding in the sentence. We know there's a pretrial agreement in this case. We don't know what the terms are. It might have been just for sending it to a special court, it might have been for a lower period of confinement. We won't know that for a couple of weeks.

KAGAN: Jeremy Sivits, a man who is trained as a truck driver, not as a prison guard. You look at someone at the specialist rank, and then you look at the generals, the top generals testifying now before the Senate Armed Services Committee, and you have to ask yourself, where between the lower ranking soldiers and these top- ranking generals will the blame finally lay.

SILIMAN: Well, that's what the Senate Committee is trying to get at, Daryn. And Your viewers are watching that as it unfolds this morning. Everyone is trying to find out what happened to General Miller's recommendations to General Sanchez regarding the merging of military intelligence and security police at Abu Ghraib and the inspection and interrogation techniques that General Miller brought with him that were authorized for Guantanamo Bay. You heard General Sanchez say he gave no order to transfer authority over the prison to Colonel Pappas (ph). A lot of folks are assuming that Colonel Pappas was in charge. That's something the Senate will want to get at.

Further, the whole question of the role of the CIA, you heard the colonel indicate that that's something that needs to be discussed in closed session. So that's a part of this whole puzzle that we probably will never hear in any kind of public forum.

KAGAN: It does seems incredible that at this point in time the question is, who was in charge? And who is in charge right now?

SILIMAN: Well, right now we know that General Miller, of course, is in charge of all the detention facilities over there. We know that there are new rules. Everyone is now affirming that the Geneva Conventions do apply, as they always have applied. The question was, the tactics that were used that we've all seen in the pictures that are resulting in these court-martials, were they, in fact, approved, either tacitly or expressly, and by whom.

Now there are going to be further trials, some of this information is going to come out, but, Daryn, those trials are not going to take place for several months. Those lawyers for the other accused are going want to parse these hearings, they're going to want to look at General Fay's (ph) report. They're looking for anything that will deflect responsibility from their clients.

KAGAN: Well, which means probably trying to go up the chain of command. Scott, how far up the chain of command do you think it will go, in terms of careers being ended, or perhaps other people going and doing prison time?

SILIMAN: Well, Daryn, that's going to depends upon how far up the chain of command approval of these techniques or approval of a violation of the Geneva Conventions actually was made. There are a lot of stores in the wire services. Some are suggesting Secretary Rumsfeld approved some of these things, a special access program. We don't know anything more about that. So I think the American public, the Congress, the world wants to know exactly how high up this went. We just don't know yet.

KAGAN: Scott Silliman, Duke University. Professor, thank you for your time this morning.

We're going to take a break now. When we come back, we'll go ahead and dip back into the Senate Armed Services Committee and testimony currently before them.

Right now, we take a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 19, 2004 - 10:54   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to get back to the Senate Armed Service Committee in just a moment. The top three U.S. military commanders in Iraq are currently testifying before that committee. This takes place on the day that the first court-martial took place in Baghdad of the soldiers that are accused in the prison abuse scandal so far.
Let's go ahead and bring in Professor Scott Silliman from Duke University, former Air Force attorney, to talk about what happened in the court-martial of Jeremy Sivits earlier today.

Professor, good morning. Thanks for being with us.

SCOTT SILIMAN, DUKE UNIV.: Good morning, Daryn. How are you?

He pleaded guilty, found guilty. His punishment will be a year in jail, demotion and a discharge for bad conduct. Is that light, considering the charges he was facing?

SILIMAN: Well, Daryn, it's probably going to disappoint a lot of folks in the Arab community who were hoping for a greater sentence. But as your viewers know, that's the maximum sentence that that particular court could have awarded, a bad conduct discharge, one year confinement. The judge did not take any money from Sivits because of concern for his family, but reduction down to private.

But that's not the end of the story, Daryn. The convening authority. That commander that created that court for Sivits, still has to approve the finding in the sentence. We know there's a pretrial agreement in this case. We don't know what the terms are. It might have been just for sending it to a special court, it might have been for a lower period of confinement. We won't know that for a couple of weeks.

KAGAN: Jeremy Sivits, a man who is trained as a truck driver, not as a prison guard. You look at someone at the specialist rank, and then you look at the generals, the top generals testifying now before the Senate Armed Services Committee, and you have to ask yourself, where between the lower ranking soldiers and these top- ranking generals will the blame finally lay.

SILIMAN: Well, that's what the Senate Committee is trying to get at, Daryn. And Your viewers are watching that as it unfolds this morning. Everyone is trying to find out what happened to General Miller's recommendations to General Sanchez regarding the merging of military intelligence and security police at Abu Ghraib and the inspection and interrogation techniques that General Miller brought with him that were authorized for Guantanamo Bay. You heard General Sanchez say he gave no order to transfer authority over the prison to Colonel Pappas (ph). A lot of folks are assuming that Colonel Pappas was in charge. That's something the Senate will want to get at.

Further, the whole question of the role of the CIA, you heard the colonel indicate that that's something that needs to be discussed in closed session. So that's a part of this whole puzzle that we probably will never hear in any kind of public forum.

KAGAN: It does seems incredible that at this point in time the question is, who was in charge? And who is in charge right now?

SILIMAN: Well, right now we know that General Miller, of course, is in charge of all the detention facilities over there. We know that there are new rules. Everyone is now affirming that the Geneva Conventions do apply, as they always have applied. The question was, the tactics that were used that we've all seen in the pictures that are resulting in these court-martials, were they, in fact, approved, either tacitly or expressly, and by whom.

Now there are going to be further trials, some of this information is going to come out, but, Daryn, those trials are not going to take place for several months. Those lawyers for the other accused are going want to parse these hearings, they're going to want to look at General Fay's (ph) report. They're looking for anything that will deflect responsibility from their clients.

KAGAN: Well, which means probably trying to go up the chain of command. Scott, how far up the chain of command do you think it will go, in terms of careers being ended, or perhaps other people going and doing prison time?

SILIMAN: Well, Daryn, that's going to depends upon how far up the chain of command approval of these techniques or approval of a violation of the Geneva Conventions actually was made. There are a lot of stores in the wire services. Some are suggesting Secretary Rumsfeld approved some of these things, a special access program. We don't know anything more about that. So I think the American public, the Congress, the world wants to know exactly how high up this went. We just don't know yet.

KAGAN: Scott Silliman, Duke University. Professor, thank you for your time this morning.

We're going to take a break now. When we come back, we'll go ahead and dip back into the Senate Armed Services Committee and testimony currently before them.

Right now, we take a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com