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CNN Live Today
Russian Plane Crashes; Guantanamo Tribunals; Lawyer who Advised Swift Boat Veterans Quits Bush Campaign
Aired August 25, 2004 - 10:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Iraq's most influential Shiite cleric is calling for a march to end the fighting in Najaf. Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani arrived in Iraq today from London. He was undergoing medical treatment there. He is urging Iraqis to help, in his words, "rescue Najaf." U.S. and Iraqi forces have been battling militants there for nearly three weeks.
Vice President Dick Cheney is campaigning in Pennsylvania today. His comments on gay marriage at a rally in Iowa yesterday are drawing fire from some conservatives. Cheney has a gay daughter. He indicated he does not favor a constitutional amendment banning same- sex marriage.
It is 11:00 a.m. on the East Coast, 8:00 a.m. for those of you on the West Coast. From CNN Center in Atlanta, good morning, once again. I'm Daryn Kagan.
Terrorism, contaminated fuel, weather? We start in Russia, where investigators are looking for clues in the plane wreckage of two planes crashes today. Both airliners went down minutes apart after flying out of the same Moscow airport. Our Paula Hancocks is live in Moscow with the latest.
Paula, hello.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn.
Well, we've just been hearing that Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, has cut his holiday short. He was down in Sochi, where the second of those planes that crashed was destined for. He's come back to Moscow in the last hour or so. We're hoping we will have some official reaction in the next couple of hours.
It has been very quiet from the official front. The only thing we've heard so far is from the spokesperson from the FSB, that's the security service over here in Russia, saying that they are considering all options.
They said that they've searched the crash sites themselves, two crash sites where there are 2,000 people combing through those crash site, and they say they've found no evidence of terrorism. But they say they haven't started looking at those flight data recorders yet.
Now, there were five of them in all that they did recover. Those are on their way back to Moscow as well. They will be looking at those to see if there's any indication of what caused these crashes. But the spokesperson for the security service saying that they were also looking at pilot error, at technical errors, whether or not there was a problem with the fuel. And so, that's what we're looking at, at the moment. So, we're really waiting for an official reaction of what they do think did happen.
A very quick recap. Of course, those two planes did set off from the same airport, the Domodedovo Airport, just about 30 kilometers south of Moscow. Now, Putin has said that since those airports have -- that airport has had its security increased intensely.
Now, I just flew into that airport about an hour ago; the international side, as opposed to domestic side. There wasn't a huge presence of security in the international side.
Now, this is an airport that usually does do domestic flights. It's the main domestic flights airport of Moscow city. Only a couple years ago did it start doing those international flight.
So, what investigators are doing at the moment, they're examining those list of passengers. They're also questioning some of the people who had prepared the planes at Domodedovo Airport -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Paula Hancocks in Moscow. Thank you.
Peter Goelz worked with the National Transportation Safety Board and helped investigate several high-profile crashes in the late '90s. He joins me from Washington this morning to discuss the Russian disaster.
Peter, good morning. Thanks for being here with us.
PETER GOELZ, FMR. MANAGING DIRECTOR, NTSB: Good morning, Daryn.
KAGAN: Two planes coming out of the same airport, crashing 450 miles apart. Sounds very suspicious.
GOELZ: It's pretty ominous. It's extraordinary to have an accident in the first place. To have two go down within minutes is certainly something pretty ominous.
KAGAN: And then there are some reports that one of the planes might have signaled that it was being hijacked before it went down.
GOELZ: Yes, there's always a great deal of confusion in the beginning of these investigations. You have conflicting eyewitness accounts. You have statements being made. I saw that.
Clearly, if the pilots did set off their transponder and indicate a hijacking, that would be very significant. If it was simply a May Day, that would be somewhat different.
KAGAN: One advantage here, though, that they were able to recover the flight data recorders from both planes.
GOELZ: That is critical. You look at three things in an accident such as this.
First, you start with the radar tracks to see what happened, did the planes come apart at altitude, did they -- you know, was there a mid-air collision of any sort. Was, you know, something -- a missile fired at the planes? But at 30,000 feet or so, that would be written off.
The second thing you do is you get those black boxes and you get the voice recorder, and you have the data recorder. Both of those really will give you some information.
Then the third thing is, you've got to look at the physical evidence on the ground. Evidence that comes off the plane first is often critical. That tells you where the event of the breakup started.
With TWA 800, we found some wreckage about a mile and a half away from the main wreckage field. That really gave us the first indication that the center wing tank of that Boeing 747 had exploded.
KAGAN: And with this debris field, of course we're just starting to see early pictures of these debris fields.
GOELZ: Yes.
KAGAN: Can you just get an idea of how high up the planes might have fallen apart?
GOELZ: Well, I've read reports. It appears as though the 134 came down relatively intact, the smaller plane, but that the larger plane apparently came apart at altitude. So, it was a much wider debris field.
It's going to be a struggle. If there isn't some dispositive information on the flight data recorder, or on the voice recorder, the physical evidence from the aircraft is going to have to be examined very carefully for signs of a high-order explosion, which is pitting, gas washing, that sort of thing, that would indicate some sort of explosive device went off.
But you cannot ignore that it could have been a mechanical or in- flight failure. Russian regional airlines do not have a good safety record. The oversight of the -- of the maintenance is not particularly rigorous. And they're right to look at the fuel source. If both of these aircraft were fueled from the same source, it could have been contaminated fuel.
KAGAN: And do we know in terms of Russian investigators, do they have the kind of resources to solve what could have taken place?
GOELZ: Well, I can't talk about the FSB, the security forces, but on the civil aviation side, the NTSB had a close and ongoing relationship with our counterparts in Russia. They were skilled. We used to call on them for technical advice. We would give them our technical advice. So, there's an established working relationship between the two safety investigative agencies. And we -- I had great confidence in the Russian skills at that level.
KAGAN: Peter Goelz, thank you for your expertise this morning.
GOELZ: Thank you, Daryn.
KAGAN: A second report on the Iraqi prison abuse scandal comes out today. It's expected to name some two dozen individuals who could face charges or disciplinary action. A report released yesterday described the abuse at Abu Ghraib prison as a kind of "Animal House on the night shift."
It also faulted senior military leaders for a lack of attention and oversight. The general who was in charge of military prison at the prison said no one person should be singled out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. JANIS KARPINSKI, U.S. ARMY: There's a shared responsibility in this. And it would be impossible to place fault or blame on one individual.
Soldiers were trained at their mobilization stations and deployed to do a specific mission. They were assigned a new and completely different mission in the theater. And in the middle of a combat zone it brought new challenges to that table.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: General...
KARPINSKI: I think that this is an indication of some policies that, if they had continued, obviously it would have gotten farce worse. So, to a large extent, it's a good thing that this was stopped very early on. No telling how long it would have been concealed and how difficult or how awful it would have become.
So, I think that we're going to get to the bottom of this or to the top of this, or wherever it lies. But there's still yet more to be uncovered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: General Karpinski says the reports on the scandal are just the first step in correcting the problems.
A programming note for you. The Fay Report on the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal releases today, 1:30 p.m. Eastern. CNN will have live coverage of that news conference.
We move on now to Cuba. Australian David Hicks is before a military commission at Guantanamo Bay this morning. He is accused of fighting alongside the Taliban. Our Susan Candiotti is in Cuba monitoring the hearing.
Susan, good morning. SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.
They're in a recess right now. Now, the father of Australian David Hicks says his son was always an adventurer, in and out of trouble from the time he was knee high. Yet his father cannot explain how his son is now accused of war crimes.
David Hicks, 29, is charged with three acts of terror, conspiracy, as well as the attempted murder of coalition forces and aiding the enemy. According to the Pentagon, Hicks joined the Kosovo Liberation Army in 1999, converted to Islam, and eventually wound up in Afghanistan. Training at al Qaeda camps and doing translation work for Osama bin Laden.
Hicks' parents are here all the way from Australia to watch their son appear before the military commission. And at the request of the Australian government, the U.S. military has allowed his parents to meet with their son privately for 15 minutes before today's military commission began.
We are told by his parents that's the first time they have seen their son in five years. Hicks' father has said the process is unfair, in his opinion, and he would have preferred his son be sent home to face any charges.
There has been no letup in criticism of these hearings, particularly by human rights organizations, who say that, because of the rules, things are really stacked against the client, the defendants here. The Pentagon, however, contends that everyone here will receive a full and fair hearing.
Now, by the way, Hicks appeared this morning, walking into the courtroom, accompanied by two military police officers holding him by the arm. Hicks is wearing a dark blue suit. He appeared very serious.
So far, only the charges have been read to him. And now there are a lot of pretrial motions that are being heard. It is quite a lengthy process at this stage of the game.
Back to you, Daryn.
KAGAN: Susan Candiotti, live in Cuba. Thank you.
We have breaking news just into CNN. A top lawyer for the Bush campaign, Benjamin L. Ginsberg, has resigned. More fallout from the Swift Boat ad controversy. Our Jill Dougherty joining us from Crawford with more on this resignation.
Good morning.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.
Well, as we have been reporting, Benjamin Ginsberg is a lawyer -- was the lawyer for the campaign, the national counsel, as it's called. And he was advising the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
Now, he had maintained that all he was doing was providing legal counsel on those campaign finance rules that are quite complex. He said it had nothing to do with the campaign and was nothing like strategy or advice on strategy.
So, just in the past few minutes, we received a copy of the letter that he submitted to the campaign, resigning. And essentially, he said, I'm proud that I gave that legal advice to the veterans. It was fully appropriate. It was legal. And he argues, it was similar to what the Democrats are doing with their 527s.
And specifically, he pointed out moveon.org, The Media Fund, and America Coming Together. Those are the Democratic organizations.
So, here's a quote from the resignation letter from Benjamin Ginsberg. "Unfortunately, this campaign has seen a stunning double standard emerge between the media's focus on the activities of 527s aligned with John Kerry and those opposed to him. I cannot begin to express my sadness that my legal representations have become a distraction from the critical issues at hand in this election.
"I feel I cannot let that continue. So, I have decided to resign as national counsel to your campaign, to ensure that the giving of legal advice to decorated military veterans, which was entirely within the boundaries of the law, doesn't distract from the real issues upon which you and the country should be focusing.
So, again, that letter coming from the -- one of the lawyers for the Bush campaign. Not admitting that they broke any laws, did anything inappropriate, but saying that simply because this has become a big issue, that he had to step down -- Daryn.
KAGAN: And Jill, interesting, because, all along, the Bush administration saying there were no ties between the Bush campaign and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
DOUGHERTY: Well, you have to really figure here that they are not saying that there was any direct connection. In fact, Ginsberg made it very clear that what he felt he was doing was acting as a lawyer, he was advising on the law for that group. But he maintains and the White House maintains that that is very separate from being part of the campaign and advising, let's say, on strategy, how to go after John Kerry.
So, that's the line they draw. And also, what you're seeing emerge in this debate, Daryn, is really the Republicans saying, the Democrats are doing it even more than we are doing, but nobody is paying attention.
KAGAN: Well, people are paying attention. There's no doubt about that. No shortage of stories on this.
So, he's going to cut his ties with the Bush administration. But he does -- does he talk about whether he's going to cut his ties and continue to consult with the veterans? DOUGHERTY: He does not specifically mention that. But he makes it very clear that he didn't want to be a drag or hurt the Bush campaign. And so, presumably, he'll continue to be a lawyer, but just not for the Bush campaign.
KAGAN: All right. Thank you for the latest. Jill Dougherty, from Crawford, Texas. More on that story ahead, no doubt.
Also, the Imam Ali Mosque. A rare glimpse on what is inside the shrine that's at the center of all this fighting in Najaf.
And we're going to take a look at religion on the campaign trail. Which party is perceived by the public as being closer to god?
And there's a first time for everything, as Israel goes for the gold. It's all ahead on CNN LIVE TODAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Sporadic fighting continued today around the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf. That is where followers of the radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr are holed up. The holy Shiite shrine also houses ancient treasures and religious artifacts.
CNN's Diana Muriel has a rare glimpse inside.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIANA MURIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is inner sanctuary of the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf. Here, the tomb of Imam Ali.
This ancient jar marks the place where Muslims believe the cousin of the prophet Mohammed is buried. The faithful come here to worship. It's hard to tell which are members of the militia loyal to Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who have been fighting U.S. and Iraqi forces in Najaf. The devout ask for prayers to be answered and express gratitude by throwing money, gold and gifts through the silver bars.
But underneath the tomb, in the vaults of the holy shrine, lay treasures of a different sort. Here, a collection of weapons, muskets, some dating to the Iraqi uprising against British rule in the 1920s. Ancient swords and scimitars, too.
Stacked on the shelves, carpets, old and more recent. Holy texts and poetry written on brass tablets, as well as priceless copies of the Koran itself, bound in velvet. Many of the ancient artifacts, like these water pots (ph), simply lay scattered in gloomy corners. All are collected in sacks, like this gold left over from the construction of the minarets.
Sadr's top aide and self-appointed curator, Sheikh Ali Al- Smaisem, says he was shocked at the condition of the museum when he took charge.
SHEIKH ALI AL-SMAISEM, SHRINE MUSEUM CURATOR (through translator): These antiquities have been shoved in the corners next to old fans and other electrical appliances. It's almost as if they were being thrown away. These antiquities have great historical importance. They represent the history of the shrine and of the city, but they have been left in a miserable state.
MURIEL: Sheik Ali says he has brought in outside experts to help him catalog the contents of the vault, which have been hidden from general view for many years.
AL-SMAISEM (through translator): May god grant that I live long enough to see this place a proper and prestigious museum.
MURIEL: But the museum is in the thick of intense fighting that has lasted for more than two weeks between fighters loyal to Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and U.S.-backed Iraqi forces. The battle for control of the mosque shows no sign of abating. And the ancient treasure of the holy shrine remain at risk.
Diana Muriel, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: Battered and bruised. Cleaning up in Taiwan after a typhoon hit the country overnight. Weather is just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Typhoon Aere is lashing China's central coast this morning after slicing across northern Taiwan. The storm bought in sheets of rain, severe flooding, 80-mile-an-hour winds. Several deaths were reported.
China evacuated a quarter of a million people ahead of the typhoon. And that is taking a look at some world weather.
How about right here in the U.S.? Here's Jacqui Jeras.
Hey, Jacqui.
(WEATHER REPORT)
KAGAN: All right. Thank you for that, Jacqui.
God and politics. Which party do Americans see as being more religious? Results of a new poll are coming up straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired August 25, 2004 - 10:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Iraq's most influential Shiite cleric is calling for a march to end the fighting in Najaf. Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani arrived in Iraq today from London. He was undergoing medical treatment there. He is urging Iraqis to help, in his words, "rescue Najaf." U.S. and Iraqi forces have been battling militants there for nearly three weeks.
Vice President Dick Cheney is campaigning in Pennsylvania today. His comments on gay marriage at a rally in Iowa yesterday are drawing fire from some conservatives. Cheney has a gay daughter. He indicated he does not favor a constitutional amendment banning same- sex marriage.
It is 11:00 a.m. on the East Coast, 8:00 a.m. for those of you on the West Coast. From CNN Center in Atlanta, good morning, once again. I'm Daryn Kagan.
Terrorism, contaminated fuel, weather? We start in Russia, where investigators are looking for clues in the plane wreckage of two planes crashes today. Both airliners went down minutes apart after flying out of the same Moscow airport. Our Paula Hancocks is live in Moscow with the latest.
Paula, hello.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn.
Well, we've just been hearing that Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, has cut his holiday short. He was down in Sochi, where the second of those planes that crashed was destined for. He's come back to Moscow in the last hour or so. We're hoping we will have some official reaction in the next couple of hours.
It has been very quiet from the official front. The only thing we've heard so far is from the spokesperson from the FSB, that's the security service over here in Russia, saying that they are considering all options.
They said that they've searched the crash sites themselves, two crash sites where there are 2,000 people combing through those crash site, and they say they've found no evidence of terrorism. But they say they haven't started looking at those flight data recorders yet.
Now, there were five of them in all that they did recover. Those are on their way back to Moscow as well. They will be looking at those to see if there's any indication of what caused these crashes. But the spokesperson for the security service saying that they were also looking at pilot error, at technical errors, whether or not there was a problem with the fuel. And so, that's what we're looking at, at the moment. So, we're really waiting for an official reaction of what they do think did happen.
A very quick recap. Of course, those two planes did set off from the same airport, the Domodedovo Airport, just about 30 kilometers south of Moscow. Now, Putin has said that since those airports have -- that airport has had its security increased intensely.
Now, I just flew into that airport about an hour ago; the international side, as opposed to domestic side. There wasn't a huge presence of security in the international side.
Now, this is an airport that usually does do domestic flights. It's the main domestic flights airport of Moscow city. Only a couple years ago did it start doing those international flight.
So, what investigators are doing at the moment, they're examining those list of passengers. They're also questioning some of the people who had prepared the planes at Domodedovo Airport -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Paula Hancocks in Moscow. Thank you.
Peter Goelz worked with the National Transportation Safety Board and helped investigate several high-profile crashes in the late '90s. He joins me from Washington this morning to discuss the Russian disaster.
Peter, good morning. Thanks for being here with us.
PETER GOELZ, FMR. MANAGING DIRECTOR, NTSB: Good morning, Daryn.
KAGAN: Two planes coming out of the same airport, crashing 450 miles apart. Sounds very suspicious.
GOELZ: It's pretty ominous. It's extraordinary to have an accident in the first place. To have two go down within minutes is certainly something pretty ominous.
KAGAN: And then there are some reports that one of the planes might have signaled that it was being hijacked before it went down.
GOELZ: Yes, there's always a great deal of confusion in the beginning of these investigations. You have conflicting eyewitness accounts. You have statements being made. I saw that.
Clearly, if the pilots did set off their transponder and indicate a hijacking, that would be very significant. If it was simply a May Day, that would be somewhat different.
KAGAN: One advantage here, though, that they were able to recover the flight data recorders from both planes.
GOELZ: That is critical. You look at three things in an accident such as this.
First, you start with the radar tracks to see what happened, did the planes come apart at altitude, did they -- you know, was there a mid-air collision of any sort. Was, you know, something -- a missile fired at the planes? But at 30,000 feet or so, that would be written off.
The second thing you do is you get those black boxes and you get the voice recorder, and you have the data recorder. Both of those really will give you some information.
Then the third thing is, you've got to look at the physical evidence on the ground. Evidence that comes off the plane first is often critical. That tells you where the event of the breakup started.
With TWA 800, we found some wreckage about a mile and a half away from the main wreckage field. That really gave us the first indication that the center wing tank of that Boeing 747 had exploded.
KAGAN: And with this debris field, of course we're just starting to see early pictures of these debris fields.
GOELZ: Yes.
KAGAN: Can you just get an idea of how high up the planes might have fallen apart?
GOELZ: Well, I've read reports. It appears as though the 134 came down relatively intact, the smaller plane, but that the larger plane apparently came apart at altitude. So, it was a much wider debris field.
It's going to be a struggle. If there isn't some dispositive information on the flight data recorder, or on the voice recorder, the physical evidence from the aircraft is going to have to be examined very carefully for signs of a high-order explosion, which is pitting, gas washing, that sort of thing, that would indicate some sort of explosive device went off.
But you cannot ignore that it could have been a mechanical or in- flight failure. Russian regional airlines do not have a good safety record. The oversight of the -- of the maintenance is not particularly rigorous. And they're right to look at the fuel source. If both of these aircraft were fueled from the same source, it could have been contaminated fuel.
KAGAN: And do we know in terms of Russian investigators, do they have the kind of resources to solve what could have taken place?
GOELZ: Well, I can't talk about the FSB, the security forces, but on the civil aviation side, the NTSB had a close and ongoing relationship with our counterparts in Russia. They were skilled. We used to call on them for technical advice. We would give them our technical advice. So, there's an established working relationship between the two safety investigative agencies. And we -- I had great confidence in the Russian skills at that level.
KAGAN: Peter Goelz, thank you for your expertise this morning.
GOELZ: Thank you, Daryn.
KAGAN: A second report on the Iraqi prison abuse scandal comes out today. It's expected to name some two dozen individuals who could face charges or disciplinary action. A report released yesterday described the abuse at Abu Ghraib prison as a kind of "Animal House on the night shift."
It also faulted senior military leaders for a lack of attention and oversight. The general who was in charge of military prison at the prison said no one person should be singled out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. JANIS KARPINSKI, U.S. ARMY: There's a shared responsibility in this. And it would be impossible to place fault or blame on one individual.
Soldiers were trained at their mobilization stations and deployed to do a specific mission. They were assigned a new and completely different mission in the theater. And in the middle of a combat zone it brought new challenges to that table.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: General...
KARPINSKI: I think that this is an indication of some policies that, if they had continued, obviously it would have gotten farce worse. So, to a large extent, it's a good thing that this was stopped very early on. No telling how long it would have been concealed and how difficult or how awful it would have become.
So, I think that we're going to get to the bottom of this or to the top of this, or wherever it lies. But there's still yet more to be uncovered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: General Karpinski says the reports on the scandal are just the first step in correcting the problems.
A programming note for you. The Fay Report on the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal releases today, 1:30 p.m. Eastern. CNN will have live coverage of that news conference.
We move on now to Cuba. Australian David Hicks is before a military commission at Guantanamo Bay this morning. He is accused of fighting alongside the Taliban. Our Susan Candiotti is in Cuba monitoring the hearing.
Susan, good morning. SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.
They're in a recess right now. Now, the father of Australian David Hicks says his son was always an adventurer, in and out of trouble from the time he was knee high. Yet his father cannot explain how his son is now accused of war crimes.
David Hicks, 29, is charged with three acts of terror, conspiracy, as well as the attempted murder of coalition forces and aiding the enemy. According to the Pentagon, Hicks joined the Kosovo Liberation Army in 1999, converted to Islam, and eventually wound up in Afghanistan. Training at al Qaeda camps and doing translation work for Osama bin Laden.
Hicks' parents are here all the way from Australia to watch their son appear before the military commission. And at the request of the Australian government, the U.S. military has allowed his parents to meet with their son privately for 15 minutes before today's military commission began.
We are told by his parents that's the first time they have seen their son in five years. Hicks' father has said the process is unfair, in his opinion, and he would have preferred his son be sent home to face any charges.
There has been no letup in criticism of these hearings, particularly by human rights organizations, who say that, because of the rules, things are really stacked against the client, the defendants here. The Pentagon, however, contends that everyone here will receive a full and fair hearing.
Now, by the way, Hicks appeared this morning, walking into the courtroom, accompanied by two military police officers holding him by the arm. Hicks is wearing a dark blue suit. He appeared very serious.
So far, only the charges have been read to him. And now there are a lot of pretrial motions that are being heard. It is quite a lengthy process at this stage of the game.
Back to you, Daryn.
KAGAN: Susan Candiotti, live in Cuba. Thank you.
We have breaking news just into CNN. A top lawyer for the Bush campaign, Benjamin L. Ginsberg, has resigned. More fallout from the Swift Boat ad controversy. Our Jill Dougherty joining us from Crawford with more on this resignation.
Good morning.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.
Well, as we have been reporting, Benjamin Ginsberg is a lawyer -- was the lawyer for the campaign, the national counsel, as it's called. And he was advising the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
Now, he had maintained that all he was doing was providing legal counsel on those campaign finance rules that are quite complex. He said it had nothing to do with the campaign and was nothing like strategy or advice on strategy.
So, just in the past few minutes, we received a copy of the letter that he submitted to the campaign, resigning. And essentially, he said, I'm proud that I gave that legal advice to the veterans. It was fully appropriate. It was legal. And he argues, it was similar to what the Democrats are doing with their 527s.
And specifically, he pointed out moveon.org, The Media Fund, and America Coming Together. Those are the Democratic organizations.
So, here's a quote from the resignation letter from Benjamin Ginsberg. "Unfortunately, this campaign has seen a stunning double standard emerge between the media's focus on the activities of 527s aligned with John Kerry and those opposed to him. I cannot begin to express my sadness that my legal representations have become a distraction from the critical issues at hand in this election.
"I feel I cannot let that continue. So, I have decided to resign as national counsel to your campaign, to ensure that the giving of legal advice to decorated military veterans, which was entirely within the boundaries of the law, doesn't distract from the real issues upon which you and the country should be focusing.
So, again, that letter coming from the -- one of the lawyers for the Bush campaign. Not admitting that they broke any laws, did anything inappropriate, but saying that simply because this has become a big issue, that he had to step down -- Daryn.
KAGAN: And Jill, interesting, because, all along, the Bush administration saying there were no ties between the Bush campaign and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
DOUGHERTY: Well, you have to really figure here that they are not saying that there was any direct connection. In fact, Ginsberg made it very clear that what he felt he was doing was acting as a lawyer, he was advising on the law for that group. But he maintains and the White House maintains that that is very separate from being part of the campaign and advising, let's say, on strategy, how to go after John Kerry.
So, that's the line they draw. And also, what you're seeing emerge in this debate, Daryn, is really the Republicans saying, the Democrats are doing it even more than we are doing, but nobody is paying attention.
KAGAN: Well, people are paying attention. There's no doubt about that. No shortage of stories on this.
So, he's going to cut his ties with the Bush administration. But he does -- does he talk about whether he's going to cut his ties and continue to consult with the veterans? DOUGHERTY: He does not specifically mention that. But he makes it very clear that he didn't want to be a drag or hurt the Bush campaign. And so, presumably, he'll continue to be a lawyer, but just not for the Bush campaign.
KAGAN: All right. Thank you for the latest. Jill Dougherty, from Crawford, Texas. More on that story ahead, no doubt.
Also, the Imam Ali Mosque. A rare glimpse on what is inside the shrine that's at the center of all this fighting in Najaf.
And we're going to take a look at religion on the campaign trail. Which party is perceived by the public as being closer to god?
And there's a first time for everything, as Israel goes for the gold. It's all ahead on CNN LIVE TODAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Sporadic fighting continued today around the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf. That is where followers of the radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr are holed up. The holy Shiite shrine also houses ancient treasures and religious artifacts.
CNN's Diana Muriel has a rare glimpse inside.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIANA MURIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is inner sanctuary of the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf. Here, the tomb of Imam Ali.
This ancient jar marks the place where Muslims believe the cousin of the prophet Mohammed is buried. The faithful come here to worship. It's hard to tell which are members of the militia loyal to Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who have been fighting U.S. and Iraqi forces in Najaf. The devout ask for prayers to be answered and express gratitude by throwing money, gold and gifts through the silver bars.
But underneath the tomb, in the vaults of the holy shrine, lay treasures of a different sort. Here, a collection of weapons, muskets, some dating to the Iraqi uprising against British rule in the 1920s. Ancient swords and scimitars, too.
Stacked on the shelves, carpets, old and more recent. Holy texts and poetry written on brass tablets, as well as priceless copies of the Koran itself, bound in velvet. Many of the ancient artifacts, like these water pots (ph), simply lay scattered in gloomy corners. All are collected in sacks, like this gold left over from the construction of the minarets.
Sadr's top aide and self-appointed curator, Sheikh Ali Al- Smaisem, says he was shocked at the condition of the museum when he took charge.
SHEIKH ALI AL-SMAISEM, SHRINE MUSEUM CURATOR (through translator): These antiquities have been shoved in the corners next to old fans and other electrical appliances. It's almost as if they were being thrown away. These antiquities have great historical importance. They represent the history of the shrine and of the city, but they have been left in a miserable state.
MURIEL: Sheik Ali says he has brought in outside experts to help him catalog the contents of the vault, which have been hidden from general view for many years.
AL-SMAISEM (through translator): May god grant that I live long enough to see this place a proper and prestigious museum.
MURIEL: But the museum is in the thick of intense fighting that has lasted for more than two weeks between fighters loyal to Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and U.S.-backed Iraqi forces. The battle for control of the mosque shows no sign of abating. And the ancient treasure of the holy shrine remain at risk.
Diana Muriel, CNN, Baghdad.
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KAGAN: Battered and bruised. Cleaning up in Taiwan after a typhoon hit the country overnight. Weather is just ahead.
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KAGAN: Typhoon Aere is lashing China's central coast this morning after slicing across northern Taiwan. The storm bought in sheets of rain, severe flooding, 80-mile-an-hour winds. Several deaths were reported.
China evacuated a quarter of a million people ahead of the typhoon. And that is taking a look at some world weather.
How about right here in the U.S.? Here's Jacqui Jeras.
Hey, Jacqui.
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KAGAN: All right. Thank you for that, Jacqui.
God and politics. Which party do Americans see as being more religious? Results of a new poll are coming up straight ahead.
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