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Kremlin Vows Retaliation for School Killings; Documentary Examines Potential Nuclear Terror

Aired September 09, 2004 - 10:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take a look at some of the stories now in the news. Secretary of State Colin Powell is on Capitol Hill this hour for a hearing on the deepening crisis in Sudan. A live picture there on Capitol Hill.
Less than an hour ago before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he said that atrocities committed in the Darfur region do constitute genocide. Tens of thousands have died, 1.2 million people displaced in Arab attacks on non-Arab African tribes.

Back in the U.S., Los Angeles officials are warning of traffic delays this morning as terror drills send about 20,000 people into downtown streets. In just about two hours, simultaneous evacuations will occur at city hall, police headquarters, and several other civic center buildings. That's all part of a mock disaster drill to prepare for a possible terrorist attack.

Former heavyweight boxer Muhammad Ali was in the political ring this morning. He appeared before the House Commerce, Trade & Consumer Protection Subcommittee. He was there to discuss reforms in professional boxing.

Rudy Giuliani, who was the mayor of New York during 9/11, is remembering those killed in another attack on innocent civilians. Giuliani is in Beslan, Russia, today, for a wreath-laying ceremony at the school where at least 335 people were killed on Friday. Giuliani also met today with Russia's foreign minister.

On that topic, Chechen rebels are responding to Moscow's reward for terrorists linked to the school massacre with a bounty of their own. They are offering $20 million for the capture of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Meanwhile, more details emerged from the inside of the siege of the school and the Kremlin's reaction, our Moscow bureau chief Jill Dougherty explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Still reeling from a terrorist massacre of hundreds men, women, and children held hostage in a southern Russian school, Moscow vowed to strike back.

Russian chief of staff, General Yuri Baluyevsky said, "Russia will take steps to liquidate terror bases in any region." The General noted he was not implying Russia would resort to nuclear weapons in its fight against terrorism. The remarks echoed a stance taken by the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, that it retains the right to launch preemptive strikes on terrorists virtually anywhere.

A senior administration officials tells CNN, every country has the right to defend itself in the war against terrorism. In London, British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw called the Russian position understandable.

JACK STRAW, BRITISH FOREIGN MINISTER: The United Nations' charter does give a right of self-defense. And the United Nations itself has accepted that an imminent or likely threat of terrorism certainly entitles any state to take appropriate action.

DOUGHERTY: Meanwhile, Russians heard the first definitive version of what happened in that school in southern Russia. The prosecutor general, Vladimir Ustinov, reporting to president Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin, the meeting broadcast at length on Russian television.

The report contained the first official public acknowledgement that there were 1,200 men, women and children taken hostage, far more than first reported. The prosecutor general told the president, one terrorist questioned the ringleader called the Colonel, "Why seize a school?" The Colonel shot him dead and later killed two female terrorists as a warning, triggering a remote control to detonate explosives they had strapped to their bodies.

Anger over the behavior of Russian authorities spilled into the streets of the nearby town of Vladikavkaz Wednesday, the regional president promising his government and possibly he will resign. As more families in Beslan laid to rest their loved one, Russian authorities announced an unprecedented $10 million reward for information leading to the neutralization of two Chechen rebel leaders whom they accuse of organizing the assault that killed so many.

Jill Dougherty, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Back here in the U.S., two Congressional panels are holding hearings today on the prison abuse scandal at the same time some retired military leaders are blasting the Pentagon probe. Our Kathleen Koch is at the Pentagon with both of those stories this morning.

Good morning.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn. The two most recent reports on the alleged abuses in Abu Ghraib Prison came out in late August. So needless lawmakers were not in session then, are very anxious to get a chance to really probe for some more details on those reports, to question the authors of the reports.

So right now, we're having back-to-back, simultaneous, really, hearings in the Senate Armed Services Committee, the House Armed Services Committee. There you see Major General Antonio Taguba being questioned by members of the Senate.

He of course conducted the first probe into the abuses there at Abu Ghraib Prison. Also testifying before the Senate will be Major General George Faye, who completed his Army probe of the prison incidents back on August 25th.

Also testifying this morning is former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger, he is appearing before the House. And though in his probe, he did conclude that the alleged mistreatment did go higher up the chain of command, at least responsibility for it did, Schlesinger this morning told lawmakers that in his opinion the abuse was not pervasive or systemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES SCHLESINGER, INDEPENDENT REVIEW PANEL CHMN.: To be sure, these abuses and the failed oversight that allowed them are an embarrassment. They do not reflect the standards that this society believes appropriate. We must take those steps necessary to see that those standards are indeed upheld in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: Hearings come as pressure is mounting for an independent commission, something along the lines of a 9/11 Commission, to be named to get to the bottom of the scandal. Yesterday a group of retired admirals and generals sent a letter to President Bush asking that such a panel be named.

An independent commission also has the backing of at least one member, a Democratic member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island. So it will be interesting today to see that subject comes up at the hearings -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon. Kathleen, thank you.

A disputed claim that one documentary says could bring unimaginable consequences if targeted by terrorists. Officials strongly deny that charge. We'll look at the battle over the Indian Point nuclear facility just outside of New York City.

And another look at Hurricane Ivan as the Category 5 storm moves towards Jamaica.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MARKET REPORT)

KAGAN: Let's go ahead and check some other stories making news coast to coast this morning. Bill Cosby speaking out again. He continues his crusade to trying to shame African-Americans into being better parents, perhaps encourage them into being better parents. At last night's annual dinner of the Congressional Black Caucus, Cosby chided parents who are too far removed from their children's lives. He says children are more prone to misbehave when parents -- quote -- "manage their kids' lives by cell phones." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILLY COSBY, ENTERTAINER/ACTIVIST: If your parents come and sit in the classrooms or come to meetings and see what classes you have, your game is gone, and you will behave. These children need that. With all of the systemic racism that pounds away at us every day, there is nothing that will defeat parenting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: To Pensacola, Florida now, one of these little pups may have a future as a police dog. It started when a man began shooting a litter of puppies. One of the pups put up a struggle and got his paw on the trigger, a shot rang out, and the man took a bullet to the wrist, and was slapped with felony animal cruelty. You go, doggie!

And in Aiken, South Carolina, when garden tools go bad, a man with no fashion sense, but a lot of nerve, robbed a bank branch armed with a rusty pitchfork. The robber got away with an undisclosed amount of cash.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: Very different points of view to look at straight ahead about the Indian Point Nuclear Plant. A filmmaker says this is a disaster waiting to happen. The plant officials say it can withstand almost anything. Both sides, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Saturday will be September 11th, the third anniversary of the terror attacks, and a time when people naturally ponder vulnerability of future strikes. One filmmaker, a member of the Kennedy family, is asking people to "Imagine the Unimaginable": a terror attack on the Indian Point nuclear facility that is very close to New York City. We're going to talk with Rory Kennedy in just a few minutes, but first, here's CNN's Maria Hinojosa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Indian Point nuclear power plant is so close to residential areas that people can see it from their local parks, close enough for environmental activists to release rubber ducks to show just how close terrorists could get.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "IMAGINING THE UNIMAGINABLE")

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., NATURAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL: On September 11, 2001, the hijackers actually used the Hudson River as a navigational point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HINOJOSA: Close enough for a famous brother and sister, Bobby and Rory Kennedy, to legally fly a helicopter right over a nuclear plant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "IMAGINING THE UNIMAGINABLE")

ROBERT KENNEDY JR.: If they had banked left and hit Indian Point rather than proceeded down to the World Trade Center, this area could be uninhabitable today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HINOJOSA (on camera): What is in fact declared a no-fly zone now in a post-September 11 reality?

ROBERT KENNEDY JR.: It's not too hard to get declared a no-fly zone. Disneyland has a no-fly zone. Disney World has one. The Super Bowl has a no-fly zone. My cousin Caroline Kennedy's wedding had a no-fly zone.

HINOJOSA (voice-over): As September 11 approaches, the debate about safety at Indian Point is heating up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "IMAGINING THE UNIMAGINABLE")

RORY KENNEDY, FILMMAKER: On the day the World Trade Center was attacked...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HINOJOSA: An HBO documentary made by Rory Kennedy called "Imagining the Unimaginable" raises new fears about security.

RORY KENNEDY: New York City is only 24 miles south of Indian Point. There's just too much at stake. There's simply too much at stake.

HINOJOSA: A group of scientists favoring nuclear power accuses Kennedy of basing her conclusions on fear, not science.

DR. LETTY G. LUTZKER, ST. BARNABAS MEDICAL CENTER: A slow release of proportions large enough to damage the community or any outlying areas is virtually impossible.

HINOJOSA: But after 9/11, activists say no scenario is too farfetched.

DAVID LOCHBAUM, NUCLEAR SAFETY ENGINEER: All of these past reactor access has have been caused by people making mistakes in the control room. The fully-loaded jet airplane hitting the control room can do far more damage than those people did with their mistakes over the years.

HINOJOSA: Or could it?

JERRY KREMER, NEW YORK STATE DIRECTOR, AREA: The construction of this plant is such that, even if you crashed an airliner into it, every test shows that, with the depth of the plant, 100 feet below, plus the six feet of concrete, there's just no way that you can penetrate the core and create the kind of disaster they're talking about.

HINOJOSA: Maria Hinojosa, CNN New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Now let's talk with Rory Kennedy, the director and narrator of that documentary, joining me from Midtown Manhattan, about, by the way, 35 miles south of the nuclear facility.

Rory, good morning.

RORY KENNEDY: Good morning.

KAGAN: I usually like to see the documentary before I talk to a guest. HBO didn't make that possible. So I'm at a bit of a disadvantage. Still plenty for us to talk about here this morning. Tell me, ideally, would you like to see this nuclear power plant completely shut down?

RORY KENNEDY: Given what I know about Indian Point at this point, I don't think it's safe to have the plant operating. There are some safety mechanisms that could be put in place to increase the safety there exponentially. Those haven't been done. I would certainly like to see that happen. But until they can assure us there wouldn't be a major radioactive release there that could cause hundreds of thousands of lives, billions of dollars, if not trillions of dollars of damage, I just don't think it's worth the risk to keep the plant open.

KAGAN: What do you say to people who look at your documentary and say, this is just another "Fahrenheit 9/11" that's exploitive, you're using scare tactics, and you're not -- as we heard in Maria Hinojosa's piece, you're not basing your allegations on science, just on fear?

RORY KENNEDY: Well, I would say that simply isn't true. The -- every assertion in this film is extensively footnoted. And I would challenge anybody to question any of the facts that are asserted in the film. I didn't set out to make a film about fear. I really set out to explore this issue, and look at the facts of the case.

And, you know, the reality is, the facts speak for themselves when it comes to Indian Point. And the fact is that it's in the most densely populated area surrounding any nuclear power plant in the country. The guard force itself doesn't feel that they can protect the plant.

An Indian Point survey showed that only 19 percent of the guards thought that they could protect the plant from a terrorist attack. It's indefensible in terms of air. It's vulnerable in terms of water. And the evacuation plan that's in place isn't supported by the community it's meant to protect. So I'm not sure what facts they're pointing to. But certainly none of those facts are disagreeable.

KAGAN: You do make the effort to put dissenting opinions in your documentary. You include interviews with the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission. But we have a statement from the commissioner, Edward McGraffigan (sic), who appears, as I understand it, in the documentary, and he says now, quote: "I very much regret having participated in the making of this film and feel it is little more than docu-propaganda."

I would like you to respond to that.

RORY KENNEDY: Well, I'm sorry that Commissioner McGaffigan feels that way. I think he was an important voice in the film. And at the end of the day, I'm not out to make a documentary, as I say, that's about propaganda. And every fact asserted in this film is absolutely 100 percent true.

KAGAN: As I understand it, this started as kind of a personal crusade for you. You live close in the area?

RORY KENNEDY: I do. On 9/11, I was living in Manhattan, in the West Village, about 20 blocks north of the World Trade Center. And that was, as we all know, just a most horrific day. It was very hard to make sense of it. And I think in the weeks and months that followed, so many of us as New Yorkers were asking ourselves, what is going to be the next target?

And on everybody's short list was Indian Point. And that was really the impetus to make this film, to explore whether that was a real concern or not. And what I discovered was that in fact it was real.

KAGAN: It sounds like you had these concerns, and then you did your research and you got even more concerned? What I find kind of curious is with everything that you've learned, and everything you have in your documentary, you still have your family living in that area.

RORY KENNEDY: Well, you know, as I say in the film, I'm not packing up and leaving New York City as a result of Indian Point. But what I would like to do is see our government officials take an active role in this and, you know, increase the security around Indian Point. Why don't we have a no-fly zone over Indian Point?

It's absurd to me that we have one, as Bobby said, over Disneyland and Disney World, but we don't have one over Indian Point. It's a target that is way too vulnerable. And the consequences are so enormous. If you look at Chernobyl, a 100-mile radius around Chernobyl was rendered permanently uninhabitable after that accident.

And when you imagine that scenario taking place in New York City, it is almost unimaginable. But I think at this point in history, we have to imagine these things. And we have to take the necessary precautions.

KAGAN: It is definitely going to bring up discussion. And we thank you for your discussion today.

RORY KENNEDY: Thank you for having me.

KAGAN: Rory Kennedy, the documentary is called "Indian Point: Imagine the Unimaginable", debuts tonight on HBO.

We'll be back in a moment, this is CNN LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Let's go ahead and take a look at what is happening now in the news.

Tourists and residents are ordered to evacuate the Florida Keys as Hurricane Ivan turns through the Caribbean. Current forecasts bring Ivan near the Keys late Sunday or early Monday. Right now Ivan is a powerful Category 5 storm and it's taking aim at Jamaica. Details coming up in just a minute.

The Abu Ghraib Prison abuse scandal is now on the table, before both the House and Senate Armed Services Committees. Senator Ted Kennedy. Hearings are under way this hour as lawmakers reviewing the two latest reports ordered by the Defense Department.

Meanwhile, a group of retired military officers is calling for an independent commission to investigate abuses at the prison.

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry is pitching his healthcare plan this hour at a town hall meeting in Des Moines, Iowa. Earlier, Kerry's wife Teresa told a Lancaster, Pennsylvania, newspaper quote: "Only an idiot would fail to support her husband's plan."

Former heavyweight boxer Muhammad Ali was in the political ring this morning. He appeared before the House Commerce, Trade and Consumer Protection Subcommittee to discuss reforms in professional boxing.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired September 9, 2004 - 10:29   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take a look at some of the stories now in the news. Secretary of State Colin Powell is on Capitol Hill this hour for a hearing on the deepening crisis in Sudan. A live picture there on Capitol Hill.
Less than an hour ago before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he said that atrocities committed in the Darfur region do constitute genocide. Tens of thousands have died, 1.2 million people displaced in Arab attacks on non-Arab African tribes.

Back in the U.S., Los Angeles officials are warning of traffic delays this morning as terror drills send about 20,000 people into downtown streets. In just about two hours, simultaneous evacuations will occur at city hall, police headquarters, and several other civic center buildings. That's all part of a mock disaster drill to prepare for a possible terrorist attack.

Former heavyweight boxer Muhammad Ali was in the political ring this morning. He appeared before the House Commerce, Trade & Consumer Protection Subcommittee. He was there to discuss reforms in professional boxing.

Rudy Giuliani, who was the mayor of New York during 9/11, is remembering those killed in another attack on innocent civilians. Giuliani is in Beslan, Russia, today, for a wreath-laying ceremony at the school where at least 335 people were killed on Friday. Giuliani also met today with Russia's foreign minister.

On that topic, Chechen rebels are responding to Moscow's reward for terrorists linked to the school massacre with a bounty of their own. They are offering $20 million for the capture of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Meanwhile, more details emerged from the inside of the siege of the school and the Kremlin's reaction, our Moscow bureau chief Jill Dougherty explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Still reeling from a terrorist massacre of hundreds men, women, and children held hostage in a southern Russian school, Moscow vowed to strike back.

Russian chief of staff, General Yuri Baluyevsky said, "Russia will take steps to liquidate terror bases in any region." The General noted he was not implying Russia would resort to nuclear weapons in its fight against terrorism. The remarks echoed a stance taken by the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, that it retains the right to launch preemptive strikes on terrorists virtually anywhere.

A senior administration officials tells CNN, every country has the right to defend itself in the war against terrorism. In London, British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw called the Russian position understandable.

JACK STRAW, BRITISH FOREIGN MINISTER: The United Nations' charter does give a right of self-defense. And the United Nations itself has accepted that an imminent or likely threat of terrorism certainly entitles any state to take appropriate action.

DOUGHERTY: Meanwhile, Russians heard the first definitive version of what happened in that school in southern Russia. The prosecutor general, Vladimir Ustinov, reporting to president Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin, the meeting broadcast at length on Russian television.

The report contained the first official public acknowledgement that there were 1,200 men, women and children taken hostage, far more than first reported. The prosecutor general told the president, one terrorist questioned the ringleader called the Colonel, "Why seize a school?" The Colonel shot him dead and later killed two female terrorists as a warning, triggering a remote control to detonate explosives they had strapped to their bodies.

Anger over the behavior of Russian authorities spilled into the streets of the nearby town of Vladikavkaz Wednesday, the regional president promising his government and possibly he will resign. As more families in Beslan laid to rest their loved one, Russian authorities announced an unprecedented $10 million reward for information leading to the neutralization of two Chechen rebel leaders whom they accuse of organizing the assault that killed so many.

Jill Dougherty, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Back here in the U.S., two Congressional panels are holding hearings today on the prison abuse scandal at the same time some retired military leaders are blasting the Pentagon probe. Our Kathleen Koch is at the Pentagon with both of those stories this morning.

Good morning.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn. The two most recent reports on the alleged abuses in Abu Ghraib Prison came out in late August. So needless lawmakers were not in session then, are very anxious to get a chance to really probe for some more details on those reports, to question the authors of the reports.

So right now, we're having back-to-back, simultaneous, really, hearings in the Senate Armed Services Committee, the House Armed Services Committee. There you see Major General Antonio Taguba being questioned by members of the Senate.

He of course conducted the first probe into the abuses there at Abu Ghraib Prison. Also testifying before the Senate will be Major General George Faye, who completed his Army probe of the prison incidents back on August 25th.

Also testifying this morning is former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger, he is appearing before the House. And though in his probe, he did conclude that the alleged mistreatment did go higher up the chain of command, at least responsibility for it did, Schlesinger this morning told lawmakers that in his opinion the abuse was not pervasive or systemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES SCHLESINGER, INDEPENDENT REVIEW PANEL CHMN.: To be sure, these abuses and the failed oversight that allowed them are an embarrassment. They do not reflect the standards that this society believes appropriate. We must take those steps necessary to see that those standards are indeed upheld in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: Hearings come as pressure is mounting for an independent commission, something along the lines of a 9/11 Commission, to be named to get to the bottom of the scandal. Yesterday a group of retired admirals and generals sent a letter to President Bush asking that such a panel be named.

An independent commission also has the backing of at least one member, a Democratic member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island. So it will be interesting today to see that subject comes up at the hearings -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon. Kathleen, thank you.

A disputed claim that one documentary says could bring unimaginable consequences if targeted by terrorists. Officials strongly deny that charge. We'll look at the battle over the Indian Point nuclear facility just outside of New York City.

And another look at Hurricane Ivan as the Category 5 storm moves towards Jamaica.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MARKET REPORT)

KAGAN: Let's go ahead and check some other stories making news coast to coast this morning. Bill Cosby speaking out again. He continues his crusade to trying to shame African-Americans into being better parents, perhaps encourage them into being better parents. At last night's annual dinner of the Congressional Black Caucus, Cosby chided parents who are too far removed from their children's lives. He says children are more prone to misbehave when parents -- quote -- "manage their kids' lives by cell phones." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILLY COSBY, ENTERTAINER/ACTIVIST: If your parents come and sit in the classrooms or come to meetings and see what classes you have, your game is gone, and you will behave. These children need that. With all of the systemic racism that pounds away at us every day, there is nothing that will defeat parenting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: To Pensacola, Florida now, one of these little pups may have a future as a police dog. It started when a man began shooting a litter of puppies. One of the pups put up a struggle and got his paw on the trigger, a shot rang out, and the man took a bullet to the wrist, and was slapped with felony animal cruelty. You go, doggie!

And in Aiken, South Carolina, when garden tools go bad, a man with no fashion sense, but a lot of nerve, robbed a bank branch armed with a rusty pitchfork. The robber got away with an undisclosed amount of cash.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: Very different points of view to look at straight ahead about the Indian Point Nuclear Plant. A filmmaker says this is a disaster waiting to happen. The plant officials say it can withstand almost anything. Both sides, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Saturday will be September 11th, the third anniversary of the terror attacks, and a time when people naturally ponder vulnerability of future strikes. One filmmaker, a member of the Kennedy family, is asking people to "Imagine the Unimaginable": a terror attack on the Indian Point nuclear facility that is very close to New York City. We're going to talk with Rory Kennedy in just a few minutes, but first, here's CNN's Maria Hinojosa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Indian Point nuclear power plant is so close to residential areas that people can see it from their local parks, close enough for environmental activists to release rubber ducks to show just how close terrorists could get.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "IMAGINING THE UNIMAGINABLE")

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., NATURAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL: On September 11, 2001, the hijackers actually used the Hudson River as a navigational point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HINOJOSA: Close enough for a famous brother and sister, Bobby and Rory Kennedy, to legally fly a helicopter right over a nuclear plant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "IMAGINING THE UNIMAGINABLE")

ROBERT KENNEDY JR.: If they had banked left and hit Indian Point rather than proceeded down to the World Trade Center, this area could be uninhabitable today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HINOJOSA (on camera): What is in fact declared a no-fly zone now in a post-September 11 reality?

ROBERT KENNEDY JR.: It's not too hard to get declared a no-fly zone. Disneyland has a no-fly zone. Disney World has one. The Super Bowl has a no-fly zone. My cousin Caroline Kennedy's wedding had a no-fly zone.

HINOJOSA (voice-over): As September 11 approaches, the debate about safety at Indian Point is heating up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "IMAGINING THE UNIMAGINABLE")

RORY KENNEDY, FILMMAKER: On the day the World Trade Center was attacked...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HINOJOSA: An HBO documentary made by Rory Kennedy called "Imagining the Unimaginable" raises new fears about security.

RORY KENNEDY: New York City is only 24 miles south of Indian Point. There's just too much at stake. There's simply too much at stake.

HINOJOSA: A group of scientists favoring nuclear power accuses Kennedy of basing her conclusions on fear, not science.

DR. LETTY G. LUTZKER, ST. BARNABAS MEDICAL CENTER: A slow release of proportions large enough to damage the community or any outlying areas is virtually impossible.

HINOJOSA: But after 9/11, activists say no scenario is too farfetched.

DAVID LOCHBAUM, NUCLEAR SAFETY ENGINEER: All of these past reactor access has have been caused by people making mistakes in the control room. The fully-loaded jet airplane hitting the control room can do far more damage than those people did with their mistakes over the years.

HINOJOSA: Or could it?

JERRY KREMER, NEW YORK STATE DIRECTOR, AREA: The construction of this plant is such that, even if you crashed an airliner into it, every test shows that, with the depth of the plant, 100 feet below, plus the six feet of concrete, there's just no way that you can penetrate the core and create the kind of disaster they're talking about.

HINOJOSA: Maria Hinojosa, CNN New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Now let's talk with Rory Kennedy, the director and narrator of that documentary, joining me from Midtown Manhattan, about, by the way, 35 miles south of the nuclear facility.

Rory, good morning.

RORY KENNEDY: Good morning.

KAGAN: I usually like to see the documentary before I talk to a guest. HBO didn't make that possible. So I'm at a bit of a disadvantage. Still plenty for us to talk about here this morning. Tell me, ideally, would you like to see this nuclear power plant completely shut down?

RORY KENNEDY: Given what I know about Indian Point at this point, I don't think it's safe to have the plant operating. There are some safety mechanisms that could be put in place to increase the safety there exponentially. Those haven't been done. I would certainly like to see that happen. But until they can assure us there wouldn't be a major radioactive release there that could cause hundreds of thousands of lives, billions of dollars, if not trillions of dollars of damage, I just don't think it's worth the risk to keep the plant open.

KAGAN: What do you say to people who look at your documentary and say, this is just another "Fahrenheit 9/11" that's exploitive, you're using scare tactics, and you're not -- as we heard in Maria Hinojosa's piece, you're not basing your allegations on science, just on fear?

RORY KENNEDY: Well, I would say that simply isn't true. The -- every assertion in this film is extensively footnoted. And I would challenge anybody to question any of the facts that are asserted in the film. I didn't set out to make a film about fear. I really set out to explore this issue, and look at the facts of the case.

And, you know, the reality is, the facts speak for themselves when it comes to Indian Point. And the fact is that it's in the most densely populated area surrounding any nuclear power plant in the country. The guard force itself doesn't feel that they can protect the plant.

An Indian Point survey showed that only 19 percent of the guards thought that they could protect the plant from a terrorist attack. It's indefensible in terms of air. It's vulnerable in terms of water. And the evacuation plan that's in place isn't supported by the community it's meant to protect. So I'm not sure what facts they're pointing to. But certainly none of those facts are disagreeable.

KAGAN: You do make the effort to put dissenting opinions in your documentary. You include interviews with the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission. But we have a statement from the commissioner, Edward McGraffigan (sic), who appears, as I understand it, in the documentary, and he says now, quote: "I very much regret having participated in the making of this film and feel it is little more than docu-propaganda."

I would like you to respond to that.

RORY KENNEDY: Well, I'm sorry that Commissioner McGaffigan feels that way. I think he was an important voice in the film. And at the end of the day, I'm not out to make a documentary, as I say, that's about propaganda. And every fact asserted in this film is absolutely 100 percent true.

KAGAN: As I understand it, this started as kind of a personal crusade for you. You live close in the area?

RORY KENNEDY: I do. On 9/11, I was living in Manhattan, in the West Village, about 20 blocks north of the World Trade Center. And that was, as we all know, just a most horrific day. It was very hard to make sense of it. And I think in the weeks and months that followed, so many of us as New Yorkers were asking ourselves, what is going to be the next target?

And on everybody's short list was Indian Point. And that was really the impetus to make this film, to explore whether that was a real concern or not. And what I discovered was that in fact it was real.

KAGAN: It sounds like you had these concerns, and then you did your research and you got even more concerned? What I find kind of curious is with everything that you've learned, and everything you have in your documentary, you still have your family living in that area.

RORY KENNEDY: Well, you know, as I say in the film, I'm not packing up and leaving New York City as a result of Indian Point. But what I would like to do is see our government officials take an active role in this and, you know, increase the security around Indian Point. Why don't we have a no-fly zone over Indian Point?

It's absurd to me that we have one, as Bobby said, over Disneyland and Disney World, but we don't have one over Indian Point. It's a target that is way too vulnerable. And the consequences are so enormous. If you look at Chernobyl, a 100-mile radius around Chernobyl was rendered permanently uninhabitable after that accident.

And when you imagine that scenario taking place in New York City, it is almost unimaginable. But I think at this point in history, we have to imagine these things. And we have to take the necessary precautions.

KAGAN: It is definitely going to bring up discussion. And we thank you for your discussion today.

RORY KENNEDY: Thank you for having me.

KAGAN: Rory Kennedy, the documentary is called "Indian Point: Imagine the Unimaginable", debuts tonight on HBO.

We'll be back in a moment, this is CNN LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Let's go ahead and take a look at what is happening now in the news.

Tourists and residents are ordered to evacuate the Florida Keys as Hurricane Ivan turns through the Caribbean. Current forecasts bring Ivan near the Keys late Sunday or early Monday. Right now Ivan is a powerful Category 5 storm and it's taking aim at Jamaica. Details coming up in just a minute.

The Abu Ghraib Prison abuse scandal is now on the table, before both the House and Senate Armed Services Committees. Senator Ted Kennedy. Hearings are under way this hour as lawmakers reviewing the two latest reports ordered by the Defense Department.

Meanwhile, a group of retired military officers is calling for an independent commission to investigate abuses at the prison.

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry is pitching his healthcare plan this hour at a town hall meeting in Des Moines, Iowa. Earlier, Kerry's wife Teresa told a Lancaster, Pennsylvania, newspaper quote: "Only an idiot would fail to support her husband's plan."

Former heavyweight boxer Muhammad Ali was in the political ring this morning. He appeared before the House Commerce, Trade and Consumer Protection Subcommittee to discuss reforms in professional boxing.

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