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CNN Live Today

Vice Presidential Running Mates Facing Off in Primetime Debate

Aired October 05, 2004 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's check in on the stories happening now in the news. Senator John Kerry is holding a townhall-style meeting in Tipton, Iowa at this hour. He's focusing on middle-class issues. The Democrat travels to Denver later today. He'll spend the next couple of days in the Denver area, preparing for Friday night's debate with President Bush.
The president has no campaign appearances today. He will be working on what's being called a significant speech on the war on terror and the economy. Aides say the president will talk about the clear choices and real differences facing Americans on those issues. Mr. Bush will deliver that speech tomorrow.

Remember these pictures of the Florida bridge that was ripped apart by Hurricane Ivan? Well, the westbound lanes of Interstate 10 and that bridge are opening today to two-way traffic. Workers continue repairs on the eastbound lanes. The Pensacola area motorists and drivers using Interstate 10 corridor were forced to use a detour for nearly three weeks.

And the Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded today to three Americans, David Gross, David Politzer and Frank Wilczeck received the honor for their study forces inside the atomic nucleus. The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences said the trio's work helped science get closer to a theory for everything.

John Kerry and George W. Bush will be on the sidelines tonight. Their running mates facing off in a primetime debate. Analysts say the race is virtually neck and neck. The traditional undercard of a presidential debate takes on the importance of a main event.

Our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley has more on that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It may not prove pivotal. It will almost surely be pretty darned interesting. The silver tongued southerner who sugarcoats his attack dog role with a smile and a drawl.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president needs to get out of fantasy land and come back to reality.

CROWLEY: Versus the unflappable westerner who pivots from avuncular to acid without changing tone. DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: John Kerry gives every indication that his repeated efforts to cast and recast and redefine the war on terror.

CROWLEY: Cheney is the elder by a dozen years, the more experienced by decades. Former White House chief of staff, former congressman, former secretary of defense, boardroom big shot of Halliburton in the Clinton years, and, arguably, the most powerful vice president in history. Edwards is a first term senator fresh off a career as a successful personal injury trial lawyer.

EDWARDS: My leadership would come from out here in the real world.

CROWLEY: Edwards hopes to counter Cheney's experience with energy, Cheney's gravitas with the common touch and an ability to move voters in much the same way he surely moved juries.

EDWARDS: Somewhere in America a mother sits at her kitchen table. She can't sleep because she's worried. She can't pay her bills.

CROWLEY: Edwards was named "People" magazine's sexiest politician. Cheney was not, duly noted with a humor that reinforced the experience gap.

CHENEY: Senator Edwards -- I shouldn't call him John, I don't know him that well -- but Senator Edwards, of course, it is alleged got his job because he's charming, sexy, good looking and has great hair. I said, how do you think I got the job? Why do they laugh when I say that?

CROWLEY: Cheney and Edwards arrive at the debate with polar opposite challenges. For all his gravitas, Cheney needs to guard against being too dark.

CHENEY: Because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again.

CROWLEY: And for all his charm, Edwards cannot be seen as too light.

EDWARDS: I've come to the conclusion that what George Bush really believes is he believes that he's like Ken Lay and America's his Enron.

CROWLEY: Now, about vice presidential debates...

SEN. LLOYD BENTSEN (D), FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.

CROWLEY: Lloyd Bentsen cleaned Dan Quayle's clock that night in October of '88. A month later Quayle was elected vice president of the United States. In fact, no paragraph in history tells of a vice presidential debate turning an election. Still, history books are made for asterisks and campaigns are measured by daily ups and downs. A strong Cheney performance could put a placeholder in the polls until President Bush can redeem himself from a less than stellar first debate and a good showing from John Edwards would put more wind behind John Kerry.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Cleveland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Even before Cheney or Edwards utter their first words of the debate, campaign advisers are framing the arguments and the attacks. Now the pre-spin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY MATALIN, BUSH CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: I think they have some pretty good, and glib talkers. When they put Senator Edwards on the ticket, they specifically said this is not our spin, that they put him on there because he was such a good talker, and that he's won tens of millions of dollars as a trial lawyer talking. And we fully expect him to attack the vice president. While he's attacking the vice president, the vice president will be talking about attacking the problems of Americans.

JOE LOCKHART, KERRY CAMPAIGN SR. ADVISER: If Dick Cheney wants to argue that his experience bodes him well, look at the experience. Look at what they've done over the last four years. Look at what Jerry Bremer said today. I mean, this is exactly what John Kerry and John Edwards have been saying, they didn't plan for the peace. Taking down Saddam Hussein in a weakened state and in a weakened army, that wasn't the hard part. All of the experts said it's what happens next. They had no clue what was going to happen and they still don't have a plan, as opposed to John Kerry and John Edwards, to fix this problem in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: So let's take a look at our primetime lineup on CNN: "ANDERSON COOPER 360," we'll have a special edition live from Cleveland. That's at 7:00 Eastern. The next hour is our debate preview with Paula Zahn and Wolf Blitzer, and then the vice presidential debate itself at 9:00 eastern, 6:00 Pacific.

The campaign spotlight is on Ohio, not just because of tonight's debate; the Buckeye State is seen as a major battleground in the presidential race. So, why Ohio?

Our Chris Lawrence went to Dayton to find out. '

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The battle for Ohio's undecided voters is being fought block by block, one home at a time.

CHAD COONS, UNDECIDED VOTER: I'm not too fond of Kerry, but I'm not too fond of Bush's economy.

LAWRENCE: Chad Coons and his cousin are both carpet installers who say expenses are up and business down under President Bush.

COONS: But he's trying to keep us safe, which, as in Kerry and my point doesn't want to keep us safe.

LAWRENCE: Precinct 11H is a small slice of Dayton, just a little more than 500 registered voters, but evenly split.

(on camera): In the last three presidential elections, the man who won this precinct also went on to win the state. And that's important to both men, because it's been over 40 years since any candidate lost Ohio and went on to win the White House.

(voice-over): Here, no vote can be taken for granted.

SUSAN BLAYLOCK, DEMOCRAT VOTING REPUBLICAN: I'm a registered Democrat, but I am voting Republican.

LAWRENCE: Susan Blaylock's husband lost his job since President Bush took office, but Blaylock says she won't vote for Kerry.

BLAYLOCK: I think he thinks because of his military record that's what's going to get him in.

LAWRENCE: But down at the neighborhood's only bar, owner Ed Reichert says business is so bad he just has to vote for Kerry.

ED REICHERT, VOTING FOR KERRY: I believe firmly in a lot of the Republican political platform, but I have to vote with my pocketbook. I have to eat before I can protest.

LAWRENCE: And it's voters like these crossing party lines, and making last-minute decisions that could swing an election from one side to the other.

Chris Lawrence, CNN, Dayton, Ohio.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: As for Senator John Kerry, he is three states to the west; he is in Iowa today, in Tipton, at Tipton Middle School. He'll be planning to talk about the middle class. More from that event just a little bit later. President Bush, by the way, has no campaign plans for today.

The price of oil is moving higher, the latest number from our Wall Street reporters in the check of our business news.

And beer drinkers, there's a new brew coming your way, has a little pick-me-up inside. That story ahead, on CNN LIVE TODAY. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Live picture there of Senator John Kerry. He's speaking in a town hall format, not that different from what he'll do on Friday in his next debate with President Bush. Today, Senator Kerry is in Tipton, Iowa. President Bush has taken the day off, at least from the campaign trail.

All right, our next guest says poker is a game of wits more than luck. A little psychology can be the ace up your sleeve. Phil Gordon, a world-class poker player, shows his expertise as the co-host of "Celebrity Poker Showdown." He's also the author of "Poker: The Real Deal."

Phil Gordon is my guest this morning. Good morning.

PHIL GORDON, AUTHOR, "POKER: THE REAL DEAL": Good morning.

KAGAN: So, what is the real deal on poker? Why has this game, which seems like it's been around forever, suddenly is the hottest thing around?

GORDON: Well, it all started with the hold card cameras. I think when people noticed that the game was very skillful, when the coverage on the "World Poker Tour: on Travel Channel and Bravo's "Celebrity Poker" really took over, that's when the game just exploded.

KAGAN: OK, so you've written the book, Phil. What is the secret to making us, each of us, a good poker player?

GORDON: Well, I think there are really three keys to being a great poker player. You have to have patience, because it takes awhile to learn the game. And it takes awhile at the table to get great cards. You have to have courage to back your convictions. And you also have to be very aggressive at the table. Aggression is really the key to winning the game.

KAGAN: So the biggest mistake people make?

GORDON: The biggest mistake people make is playing their cards too tentatively. I think if you're going to choose to play a hand, you've got to choose to play it very strongly.

KAGAN: And we're looking at some celebrities right now playing poker. The celebrities you've seen play, who's impressed you the most?

GORDON: Obviously the number one name that comes to mind is Ben Affleck. He is currently the California State Poker Champion. He won $360,000 in a poker tournament about a couple months ago.

KAGAN: Oh, so, good, because you know, he really needs the coins.

GORDON: Exactly.

KAGAN: Yeah, feel good about that.

GORDON: No, he's a great player. Hank Azaria is a very good player. Dave Navarro, who's on screen right now...

KAGAN: Right.

GORDON: ... is a pretty good player. I really like Seth Meyers' game from "Saturday Night Live." And you know, they're all learning. James Woods and Mimi Rogers are both great players.

KAGAN: Ah, good. Yeah, get a woman in there...

GORDON: Yes.

KAGAN: ... right there. Now, a big part of poker is the body language.

GORDON: Yes.

KAGAN: And we're interested in body language, because we're watching, of course, the vice presidential debates tonight and then two more presidential debates to take place.

Looking back on the one that took place last week and looking ahead, what do you see as you look at these individual candidates?

GORDON: Well, look, at the poker table, strength means weakness and weakness means strength. So, if I'm -- when I'm watching the debates tonight, what I'm going to look for is body language that tends to display one emotion or the other.

So, when a candidate is leaning forward over the podium, I'm going to feel like he's less sure of his convictions on that issue. If a candidate is -- either walks away from the podium or leans back, that's a sign of strength for me, and I'm going to think that he's more sure on that issue.

Also if your opponent at the poker table looks at you when they're betting, they're generally very weak. And if they look away, they're very strong. So, I think that's going to translate well from the debate tonight. If your opponent -- if a candidate's watching his opponent while he's speaking, I think that he's really concerned about that issue.

KAGAN: Now there's a different take. Just one final question, do you think when you're casting your vote -- you don't have to tell us who you're voting for -- but should a president be a good poker player?

GORDON: Well, I think the same skill set that good poker players have would be great skills for a candidate. I mean, I would like to see a president be very courageous, be very patient, and also very aggressive towards our enemies.

KAGAN: Yeah, well often you're playing for all the chips, aren't you...

GORDON: Absolutely.

KAGAN: ... when you're president? Phil Gordon, thank you. Good luck with the book.

GORDON: Thank you very much.

KAGAN: And I would say good luck with your game, but looks like you're doing just fine.

GORDON: New season of "Celebrity Poker" starts on Sunday.

KAGAN: We will look for it.

GORDON: Thank you.

KAGAN: Thank you so much.

Well, the campaign season in full swing -- Senator John Kerry, as I mentioned, in Tipton, Iowa. Let's listen in.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need a president who knows how to stay focused on the real target and who knows, most importantly, when America is strongest.

Franklin Roosevelt knew it. Harry Truman knew it. Dwight Eisenhower knew it. John Kennedy knew it. Richard Nixon, Lyndon Johnson, Ronald Reagan knew it. And George Herbert Walker Bush, his father, knew it because he built a true coalition that picked up 95 percent of the cost of the war.

You're picking up 90 percent of the cost of this one and coalition forces are 90 percent of the casualties -- 135,000 American forces on the ground -- or so; 8,300 British. And the most of the next four countries is 3,000 to 4,000 troops and they're not, many of them, in combat. And then you've got people in the hundreds. That's it, folks.

That is not a grand coalition. That is not what the American people deserve and need.

(APPLAUSE)

Just today we have learned that America's top official who was responsible for managing the Coalition Provisional Authority has acknowledged two big mistakes. These are the two they've acknowledged.

(LAUGHTER) Number one -- but they're not insignificant -- Paul Bremer, who was running the Coalition Provisional Authority, has admitted we didn't deploy enough troops to get the job done. And two, we didn't contain the violence after Saddam Hussein was deposed.

Now, I hope tonight Mr. Cheney can acknowledge those mistakes. I hope Mr. Cheney can take responsibility.

Remember the secretary of defense being asked about looting? Remember his attitude? "Oh, well, looting happens."

(LAUGHTER)

I mean, you run down the list of mistakes. There was 850,000 tons of ammo in an ammo dump. Did they guard it? No. Our kids are being shot at today from the ammo and weapons from the ammo dump that they didn't guard.

We've got an army that was disbanded, rapidly and wrongly, so that even Prime Minister Allawi criticized them for disbanding the army, which they -- I can run down the list. I'm not going to spend all my time on it today.

But there are a long list of mistakes. And I'm glad that Paul Bremer has finally admitted at least two of them. And the president of the United States needs to tell the truth to the American people.

(APPLAUSE)

Now, I don't know if the president is constitutionally incapable of acknowledging the truth.

(LAUGHTER)

I don't know if he's just so stubborn that he's going to go down.

But you know, this is what you're thinking about as you sit here to make a judgment about who can and should be president of the United States. It is a judgment that you make about the judgments that we might make, or that he has made.

Now, I have a 35-year lifetime record of making judgments. I volunteered for my country and fought in a war because I thought it was important for people to serve and to give back to nation. But when I saw the mistakes, I stood up when I came back and I had the courage to point them out to the American people.

(APPLAUSE)

Now even today, there are some who still don't like that. And I'm sorry about that. I feel badly because, you know, it's hard. But that's the way life is. You've got to speak truth to power. And the American people want that truth today.

Today, the president goes around America and he tells you that the economy is just fine; we're getting stronger every day; that things are better. But he's not in touch with the lives of the people -- the average Americans.

So let me just share with you a little bit of the truth of what is happening and I think you know it. And then I'm going to turn very quickly because we've got some folks here who are real people -- they're your folks; they're your neighbors -- who can share what their experiences are. And then I want to open it up and answer as many questions as I can here and just chat with you a minute.

But, here in Iowa, you all have lost 76,000 jobs. You've got jobs going overseas and people looking for jobs to replace them that pay, on average, $9,000 less than the jobs that we're losing overseas.

KAGAN: We've been listening in to Senator John Kerry. He's at a campaign stop, a townhall meeting in Tipton, Iowa today, talking about comments that Paul Bremer made yesterday, the former head of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq. Paul Bremer coming out and saying that he believes the U.S. never had enough troops on the ground in Iraq to do the job properly. However, Paul Bremer also followed up those comments by saying after his time in Iraq, he is more convinced than ever that regime change and getting Saddam Hussein out of power was the right thing to do.

More on Senator Kerry, more on the vice presidential debates, which of course take place tonight in Cleveland, Ohio. Our coverage begins at 7:00 p.m. The debates begin at 9:00 Eastern. You're going to hear a lot more this hour and a lot more straight ahead.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired October 5, 2004 - 10:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's check in on the stories happening now in the news. Senator John Kerry is holding a townhall-style meeting in Tipton, Iowa at this hour. He's focusing on middle-class issues. The Democrat travels to Denver later today. He'll spend the next couple of days in the Denver area, preparing for Friday night's debate with President Bush.
The president has no campaign appearances today. He will be working on what's being called a significant speech on the war on terror and the economy. Aides say the president will talk about the clear choices and real differences facing Americans on those issues. Mr. Bush will deliver that speech tomorrow.

Remember these pictures of the Florida bridge that was ripped apart by Hurricane Ivan? Well, the westbound lanes of Interstate 10 and that bridge are opening today to two-way traffic. Workers continue repairs on the eastbound lanes. The Pensacola area motorists and drivers using Interstate 10 corridor were forced to use a detour for nearly three weeks.

And the Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded today to three Americans, David Gross, David Politzer and Frank Wilczeck received the honor for their study forces inside the atomic nucleus. The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences said the trio's work helped science get closer to a theory for everything.

John Kerry and George W. Bush will be on the sidelines tonight. Their running mates facing off in a primetime debate. Analysts say the race is virtually neck and neck. The traditional undercard of a presidential debate takes on the importance of a main event.

Our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley has more on that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It may not prove pivotal. It will almost surely be pretty darned interesting. The silver tongued southerner who sugarcoats his attack dog role with a smile and a drawl.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president needs to get out of fantasy land and come back to reality.

CROWLEY: Versus the unflappable westerner who pivots from avuncular to acid without changing tone. DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: John Kerry gives every indication that his repeated efforts to cast and recast and redefine the war on terror.

CROWLEY: Cheney is the elder by a dozen years, the more experienced by decades. Former White House chief of staff, former congressman, former secretary of defense, boardroom big shot of Halliburton in the Clinton years, and, arguably, the most powerful vice president in history. Edwards is a first term senator fresh off a career as a successful personal injury trial lawyer.

EDWARDS: My leadership would come from out here in the real world.

CROWLEY: Edwards hopes to counter Cheney's experience with energy, Cheney's gravitas with the common touch and an ability to move voters in much the same way he surely moved juries.

EDWARDS: Somewhere in America a mother sits at her kitchen table. She can't sleep because she's worried. She can't pay her bills.

CROWLEY: Edwards was named "People" magazine's sexiest politician. Cheney was not, duly noted with a humor that reinforced the experience gap.

CHENEY: Senator Edwards -- I shouldn't call him John, I don't know him that well -- but Senator Edwards, of course, it is alleged got his job because he's charming, sexy, good looking and has great hair. I said, how do you think I got the job? Why do they laugh when I say that?

CROWLEY: Cheney and Edwards arrive at the debate with polar opposite challenges. For all his gravitas, Cheney needs to guard against being too dark.

CHENEY: Because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again.

CROWLEY: And for all his charm, Edwards cannot be seen as too light.

EDWARDS: I've come to the conclusion that what George Bush really believes is he believes that he's like Ken Lay and America's his Enron.

CROWLEY: Now, about vice presidential debates...

SEN. LLOYD BENTSEN (D), FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.

CROWLEY: Lloyd Bentsen cleaned Dan Quayle's clock that night in October of '88. A month later Quayle was elected vice president of the United States. In fact, no paragraph in history tells of a vice presidential debate turning an election. Still, history books are made for asterisks and campaigns are measured by daily ups and downs. A strong Cheney performance could put a placeholder in the polls until President Bush can redeem himself from a less than stellar first debate and a good showing from John Edwards would put more wind behind John Kerry.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Cleveland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Even before Cheney or Edwards utter their first words of the debate, campaign advisers are framing the arguments and the attacks. Now the pre-spin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY MATALIN, BUSH CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: I think they have some pretty good, and glib talkers. When they put Senator Edwards on the ticket, they specifically said this is not our spin, that they put him on there because he was such a good talker, and that he's won tens of millions of dollars as a trial lawyer talking. And we fully expect him to attack the vice president. While he's attacking the vice president, the vice president will be talking about attacking the problems of Americans.

JOE LOCKHART, KERRY CAMPAIGN SR. ADVISER: If Dick Cheney wants to argue that his experience bodes him well, look at the experience. Look at what they've done over the last four years. Look at what Jerry Bremer said today. I mean, this is exactly what John Kerry and John Edwards have been saying, they didn't plan for the peace. Taking down Saddam Hussein in a weakened state and in a weakened army, that wasn't the hard part. All of the experts said it's what happens next. They had no clue what was going to happen and they still don't have a plan, as opposed to John Kerry and John Edwards, to fix this problem in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: So let's take a look at our primetime lineup on CNN: "ANDERSON COOPER 360," we'll have a special edition live from Cleveland. That's at 7:00 Eastern. The next hour is our debate preview with Paula Zahn and Wolf Blitzer, and then the vice presidential debate itself at 9:00 eastern, 6:00 Pacific.

The campaign spotlight is on Ohio, not just because of tonight's debate; the Buckeye State is seen as a major battleground in the presidential race. So, why Ohio?

Our Chris Lawrence went to Dayton to find out. '

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The battle for Ohio's undecided voters is being fought block by block, one home at a time.

CHAD COONS, UNDECIDED VOTER: I'm not too fond of Kerry, but I'm not too fond of Bush's economy.

LAWRENCE: Chad Coons and his cousin are both carpet installers who say expenses are up and business down under President Bush.

COONS: But he's trying to keep us safe, which, as in Kerry and my point doesn't want to keep us safe.

LAWRENCE: Precinct 11H is a small slice of Dayton, just a little more than 500 registered voters, but evenly split.

(on camera): In the last three presidential elections, the man who won this precinct also went on to win the state. And that's important to both men, because it's been over 40 years since any candidate lost Ohio and went on to win the White House.

(voice-over): Here, no vote can be taken for granted.

SUSAN BLAYLOCK, DEMOCRAT VOTING REPUBLICAN: I'm a registered Democrat, but I am voting Republican.

LAWRENCE: Susan Blaylock's husband lost his job since President Bush took office, but Blaylock says she won't vote for Kerry.

BLAYLOCK: I think he thinks because of his military record that's what's going to get him in.

LAWRENCE: But down at the neighborhood's only bar, owner Ed Reichert says business is so bad he just has to vote for Kerry.

ED REICHERT, VOTING FOR KERRY: I believe firmly in a lot of the Republican political platform, but I have to vote with my pocketbook. I have to eat before I can protest.

LAWRENCE: And it's voters like these crossing party lines, and making last-minute decisions that could swing an election from one side to the other.

Chris Lawrence, CNN, Dayton, Ohio.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: As for Senator John Kerry, he is three states to the west; he is in Iowa today, in Tipton, at Tipton Middle School. He'll be planning to talk about the middle class. More from that event just a little bit later. President Bush, by the way, has no campaign plans for today.

The price of oil is moving higher, the latest number from our Wall Street reporters in the check of our business news.

And beer drinkers, there's a new brew coming your way, has a little pick-me-up inside. That story ahead, on CNN LIVE TODAY. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Live picture there of Senator John Kerry. He's speaking in a town hall format, not that different from what he'll do on Friday in his next debate with President Bush. Today, Senator Kerry is in Tipton, Iowa. President Bush has taken the day off, at least from the campaign trail.

All right, our next guest says poker is a game of wits more than luck. A little psychology can be the ace up your sleeve. Phil Gordon, a world-class poker player, shows his expertise as the co-host of "Celebrity Poker Showdown." He's also the author of "Poker: The Real Deal."

Phil Gordon is my guest this morning. Good morning.

PHIL GORDON, AUTHOR, "POKER: THE REAL DEAL": Good morning.

KAGAN: So, what is the real deal on poker? Why has this game, which seems like it's been around forever, suddenly is the hottest thing around?

GORDON: Well, it all started with the hold card cameras. I think when people noticed that the game was very skillful, when the coverage on the "World Poker Tour: on Travel Channel and Bravo's "Celebrity Poker" really took over, that's when the game just exploded.

KAGAN: OK, so you've written the book, Phil. What is the secret to making us, each of us, a good poker player?

GORDON: Well, I think there are really three keys to being a great poker player. You have to have patience, because it takes awhile to learn the game. And it takes awhile at the table to get great cards. You have to have courage to back your convictions. And you also have to be very aggressive at the table. Aggression is really the key to winning the game.

KAGAN: So the biggest mistake people make?

GORDON: The biggest mistake people make is playing their cards too tentatively. I think if you're going to choose to play a hand, you've got to choose to play it very strongly.

KAGAN: And we're looking at some celebrities right now playing poker. The celebrities you've seen play, who's impressed you the most?

GORDON: Obviously the number one name that comes to mind is Ben Affleck. He is currently the California State Poker Champion. He won $360,000 in a poker tournament about a couple months ago.

KAGAN: Oh, so, good, because you know, he really needs the coins.

GORDON: Exactly.

KAGAN: Yeah, feel good about that.

GORDON: No, he's a great player. Hank Azaria is a very good player. Dave Navarro, who's on screen right now...

KAGAN: Right.

GORDON: ... is a pretty good player. I really like Seth Meyers' game from "Saturday Night Live." And you know, they're all learning. James Woods and Mimi Rogers are both great players.

KAGAN: Ah, good. Yeah, get a woman in there...

GORDON: Yes.

KAGAN: ... right there. Now, a big part of poker is the body language.

GORDON: Yes.

KAGAN: And we're interested in body language, because we're watching, of course, the vice presidential debates tonight and then two more presidential debates to take place.

Looking back on the one that took place last week and looking ahead, what do you see as you look at these individual candidates?

GORDON: Well, look, at the poker table, strength means weakness and weakness means strength. So, if I'm -- when I'm watching the debates tonight, what I'm going to look for is body language that tends to display one emotion or the other.

So, when a candidate is leaning forward over the podium, I'm going to feel like he's less sure of his convictions on that issue. If a candidate is -- either walks away from the podium or leans back, that's a sign of strength for me, and I'm going to think that he's more sure on that issue.

Also if your opponent at the poker table looks at you when they're betting, they're generally very weak. And if they look away, they're very strong. So, I think that's going to translate well from the debate tonight. If your opponent -- if a candidate's watching his opponent while he's speaking, I think that he's really concerned about that issue.

KAGAN: Now there's a different take. Just one final question, do you think when you're casting your vote -- you don't have to tell us who you're voting for -- but should a president be a good poker player?

GORDON: Well, I think the same skill set that good poker players have would be great skills for a candidate. I mean, I would like to see a president be very courageous, be very patient, and also very aggressive towards our enemies.

KAGAN: Yeah, well often you're playing for all the chips, aren't you...

GORDON: Absolutely.

KAGAN: ... when you're president? Phil Gordon, thank you. Good luck with the book.

GORDON: Thank you very much.

KAGAN: And I would say good luck with your game, but looks like you're doing just fine.

GORDON: New season of "Celebrity Poker" starts on Sunday.

KAGAN: We will look for it.

GORDON: Thank you.

KAGAN: Thank you so much.

Well, the campaign season in full swing -- Senator John Kerry, as I mentioned, in Tipton, Iowa. Let's listen in.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need a president who knows how to stay focused on the real target and who knows, most importantly, when America is strongest.

Franklin Roosevelt knew it. Harry Truman knew it. Dwight Eisenhower knew it. John Kennedy knew it. Richard Nixon, Lyndon Johnson, Ronald Reagan knew it. And George Herbert Walker Bush, his father, knew it because he built a true coalition that picked up 95 percent of the cost of the war.

You're picking up 90 percent of the cost of this one and coalition forces are 90 percent of the casualties -- 135,000 American forces on the ground -- or so; 8,300 British. And the most of the next four countries is 3,000 to 4,000 troops and they're not, many of them, in combat. And then you've got people in the hundreds. That's it, folks.

That is not a grand coalition. That is not what the American people deserve and need.

(APPLAUSE)

Just today we have learned that America's top official who was responsible for managing the Coalition Provisional Authority has acknowledged two big mistakes. These are the two they've acknowledged.

(LAUGHTER) Number one -- but they're not insignificant -- Paul Bremer, who was running the Coalition Provisional Authority, has admitted we didn't deploy enough troops to get the job done. And two, we didn't contain the violence after Saddam Hussein was deposed.

Now, I hope tonight Mr. Cheney can acknowledge those mistakes. I hope Mr. Cheney can take responsibility.

Remember the secretary of defense being asked about looting? Remember his attitude? "Oh, well, looting happens."

(LAUGHTER)

I mean, you run down the list of mistakes. There was 850,000 tons of ammo in an ammo dump. Did they guard it? No. Our kids are being shot at today from the ammo and weapons from the ammo dump that they didn't guard.

We've got an army that was disbanded, rapidly and wrongly, so that even Prime Minister Allawi criticized them for disbanding the army, which they -- I can run down the list. I'm not going to spend all my time on it today.

But there are a long list of mistakes. And I'm glad that Paul Bremer has finally admitted at least two of them. And the president of the United States needs to tell the truth to the American people.

(APPLAUSE)

Now, I don't know if the president is constitutionally incapable of acknowledging the truth.

(LAUGHTER)

I don't know if he's just so stubborn that he's going to go down.

But you know, this is what you're thinking about as you sit here to make a judgment about who can and should be president of the United States. It is a judgment that you make about the judgments that we might make, or that he has made.

Now, I have a 35-year lifetime record of making judgments. I volunteered for my country and fought in a war because I thought it was important for people to serve and to give back to nation. But when I saw the mistakes, I stood up when I came back and I had the courage to point them out to the American people.

(APPLAUSE)

Now even today, there are some who still don't like that. And I'm sorry about that. I feel badly because, you know, it's hard. But that's the way life is. You've got to speak truth to power. And the American people want that truth today.

Today, the president goes around America and he tells you that the economy is just fine; we're getting stronger every day; that things are better. But he's not in touch with the lives of the people -- the average Americans.

So let me just share with you a little bit of the truth of what is happening and I think you know it. And then I'm going to turn very quickly because we've got some folks here who are real people -- they're your folks; they're your neighbors -- who can share what their experiences are. And then I want to open it up and answer as many questions as I can here and just chat with you a minute.

But, here in Iowa, you all have lost 76,000 jobs. You've got jobs going overseas and people looking for jobs to replace them that pay, on average, $9,000 less than the jobs that we're losing overseas.

KAGAN: We've been listening in to Senator John Kerry. He's at a campaign stop, a townhall meeting in Tipton, Iowa today, talking about comments that Paul Bremer made yesterday, the former head of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq. Paul Bremer coming out and saying that he believes the U.S. never had enough troops on the ground in Iraq to do the job properly. However, Paul Bremer also followed up those comments by saying after his time in Iraq, he is more convinced than ever that regime change and getting Saddam Hussein out of power was the right thing to do.

More on Senator Kerry, more on the vice presidential debates, which of course take place tonight in Cleveland, Ohio. Our coverage begins at 7:00 p.m. The debates begin at 9:00 Eastern. You're going to hear a lot more this hour and a lot more straight ahead.

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