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The Final Debate; Flu Shot Price Gouging; Hostage Rescue Attempt

Aired October 13, 2004 - 10:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take a look at what's happening now in the news.
President Bush and Senator Kerry get ready for a duel over domestic issues. They meet tonight in Tempe, Arizona, for the third and final presidential debate. We'll have a preview from both campaigns in just a few minutes.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair today denied that he misrepresented intelligence on Iraqi weapons. Blair admits again that intelligence pointing to stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons was flawed, but he defended his decision to support the war in Iraq. And he rejected calls that he apologize for misleading the country.

An investigative panel today starting looking into complaints about the Afghan elections. One of the panel members says vote counting will begin soon after the complaints are reviewed. Also today, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan praised the election, calling it an end to the rule of the gun.

Four U.S. soldiers have been killed in two separate incidents in Baghdad. The military says one soldier died when insurgents set off an explosive device in western Baghdad early today. And three soldiers were killed by a roadside bomb in the eastern part of the capital late yesterday.

A small plume of steam appears to be rising from Mount St. Helens this morning. Scientists confirming yesterday that magma has broken through the surface of the volcano. They say it is slowly building a new lava dome.

Keeping you informed, CNN is the most trusted name in news.

It is 11:00 a.m. on the East Coast and 8:00 a.m. on the West Coast. From CNN Center in Atlanta, good morning once again. I'm Daryn Kagan.

Up first this hour on CNN, the final face-off. President Bush and Senator John Kerry meeting in Tempe, Arizona, tonight for their last debate before the election. The president is expected to attack Kerry as what he calls a tax-and-spend liberal. Aides say Kerry will blast Bush over what they call his record of failure.

The president is already in Arizona this morning. He says he's looking forward to the debate as a chance to point out major differences between him and his Democratic rival. Senator Kerry is scheduled to arrive in Arizona in a little less than three hours from now. He's been in New Mexico preparing for tonight's debate and watching a little bit of baseball.

You can expect both candidates to come out swinging as they slug it out over domestic issues tonight. Let's get a preview from our correspondents. Dana Bash with the Bush camp in Scottsdale, Arizona. Ed Henry is still in Santa Fe, New Mexico, with the Kerry camp.

Dana, we begin with you. Good morning.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn. And, you know, that is exactly what the Bush camp says that they are going to try to do tonight, what you mentioned, which is to highlight what they believe are some fundamental philosophical differences between President Bush and John Kerry. And you can expect, as we've heard on the stump over the past several days from President Bush, for him to portray himself as somebody who wants Americans and voters to have more control over issues like healthcare and Medicare and things like that, but portray Senator Kerry as somebody who is a big government, big spending liberal who has a record to prove it.

Now, Mr. Bush did preview this theme yesterday on the stump in Arizona. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're not going to have fiscal sanity with John Kerry as the president. He's been the most liberal member of the United States Senate, which means he likes to spend your money. That's what that means. Now, he can try to run from his record, but I'm not going to let him hide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, Bush aides are very well aware that the topics for tonight, which will be focused on domestic issues, do play to Senator Kerry's turf. And let's take a look at some numbers that illustrate that.

From healthcare, to deficit, to Medicare, the president trails John Kerry by 19 percent, 13 percent, 15 percentage points. Now, these are big hurdles Bush aides know that they have to get over. But they also point out that on the economy that they're a little bit closer, on taxes President Bush does have a slight edge. And they also realize and think that Mr. Bush is somebody who's been perceived and has really been focused on as a war president.

And voters really haven't had a chance to listen to and see the president very much in terms of his ideas for domestic policy. He certainly tried to lay that out in his convention, and they admit at the Bush campaign that it's gotten overshadowed by Iraq.

And Daryn, I should say, in terms of mood, the Bush campaign says if they are giddy over at camp Kerry, they are simply matter of fact over at the Bush campaign. They understand that they have to get over the perception that John Kerry won the first two debates, but they are privately saying that they are hoping that this -- tonight -- that they can over it tonight and get the president back on stump, because that is where he's more comfortable.

KAGAN: Yes. And what about the format tonight? He seemed to be less comfortable -- it's similar to debate one, correct, instead of debate two?

BASH: That's correct. And that is something that they're well aware of, that they're going to be behind podiums tonight, that they're not going to have the sort of town hall format that the president seemed to be more comfortable in last time.

But certainly, as we've been reporting, the president did look at the tapes from the first event. And that he perhaps is somebody who is competitive and understands what he did wrong and will try to, at least in terms of his expressions that he even makes fun of himself on, try to contain himself and try to be a little bit more comfortable.

KAGAN: All right. Dana Bash in Scottsdale. Thank you. Enjoying the cactus behind you there.

Let's go head further into the Southwest, the Kerry campaign. Correspondent Ed Henry is in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Good morning.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning again, Daryn.

That's right, as you just heard Dana mentioning, the Kerry camp knows that President Bush has been very much on the attack this week. The Kerry camp believes that the president has been distorting the senator's record on issues like taxes and healthcare.

They're vowing that John Kerry will hit back very hard tonight. And they're saying that they won the first two debates. They feel kind of an air of confidence heading into this third debate. They think they can go three for three.

And, in fact, what did John Kerry do on the eve of what could be the biggest moment in his political life? He went for a bike ride.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): After Kerry's 45-minute bike ride, the Red Sox fan tuned into game one of Boston's dramatic playoff series with the Yankees, all to project the image Kerry is calm, cool, collected heading into tonight's final showdown with President Bush.

DAVID WADE, KERRY PRESS SECRETARY: Well, I think the pressure is on the president. And it seems like the president and the vice president, both, as you've seen in these harsh attacks following each debate, they've sort of decided to write off all the undecided voters and to speak only to their hardened Republican base. HENRY: While Kerry has been relaxing in between debate prep, the president has relentless in trying to shred the senator's record.

BUSH: You're not going to have fiscal sanity with John Kerry as the president. He has been the most liberal member of the United States Senate, which means he likes to spend your money.

HENRY: Aides say Kerry was right not to directly respond to those attacks this week. They say he will fire back tonight.

WADE: He has prepared hard for this debate. He's ready.

HENRY: With Kerry off the stump, his running mate is doing the talking, testing out some of the lines that Kerry may use on domestic issues, like stem cell research.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If we do the work that we can do in this country, the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going to get up out of that wheelchair and walk again. That's what we can do in America.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HENRY (on camera): Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist called those comments "crass" and "shameful." Republicans think that the Democratic ticket is politicizing the death of Christopher Reeve.

Edwards shot back that what he believes what's really crass here is that the president is standing in the way of stem cell research that could cure a lot of dread diseases. Obviously, the rhetoric getting very hot from both sided heading into tonight's showdown -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Ed Henry in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Thank you.

CNN is live in Tempe for the final face-off between the president and Senator Kerry. Anderson Cooper and Paula Zahn kick off our prime- time coverage tonight at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Wolf Blitzer and our election team will have a pre-debate special at 8:30, followed by the debate at 9:00.

The law of supply and demand appears to be hard at work with the flu vaccine. With a shortage looming this season, there are reports now of price gouging. Financial correspondent Fred Katayama is in New York with more on that.

Fred, good morning.

FRED KATAYAMA, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

Well, the shortage of flu vaccine has spun widespread reports of price gouging. Some vendors are charging outrageous prices and some hospitals are so short and eager for the vaccine that they're buying them at inflated rates. A survey sent to more than 2,500 hospital pharmacies by the American Society of Health System Pharmacists, shows disturbing results. More than half of the respondents reported they have been offered flu vaccine at highly-inflated prices. Of these, more than 80 percent say the price being offered was more than four times the original market value, and nearly 20 percent said they were offered vaccine at more than 10 times the original value, or $800 per 10 doses. That works out to $80 a dose.

And Kansas' attorney general is suing a Florida company that says was selling its vaccine at more than 10 times the normal price. Kansas officials say Fort Lauderdale-based MEDSTAT charged $85 for 10 dose before the shortage. One week later, it charged $900. Calls to MEDSTAT's attorneys were not returned.

Centers for Disease Control director Dr. Julie Gerberding called the price gouging an immoral thing. She said it's a state issue with a definition of price gouging varying from state to state.

The U.S. supply of flu vaccine was cut in half after British officials temporarily suspended the manufacturing license of one of the biggest manufacturers, Chiron. The hospital pharmacy survey, Daryn, by the way, showed that more than three-fourths of the hospitals said they will not have enough vaccine on hand to meet CDC recommendations -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right. A lot of people struggling with that situation. Fred Katayama, thank you.

We know their tragic fate, but what we're now learning is just what happened in the days leading up to the beheading of two American hostages. Not one, but two rescue attempts. The story and details on that coming up.

Also, juvenile injustice? The Supreme Court takes up the issue of executing under-age criminals.

And later, he'll talk movies and politics, and we're hoping he'll talk about his friend Christopher Reeve and probably anything else Robin Williams feels like doing. One-on-one with Robin Williams live.

I'm back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: U.S. forces have unearthed a mass grave in northwestern Iraq. It appears to hold the remains of dozens, if not hundreds of people. Many are said to be Kurdish women and children. Forensic experts are gathering evidence at the site to use in a war crimes trial against Saddam Hussein.

CNN has learned of two covert U.S. operations intended to rescue hostages taken in Iraq. Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, has that story for us.

Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Daryn. Indeed, two unsuccessful rescue attempts for hostages held and then executed by the network of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): The first rescue attempt came when Americans Eugene Armstrong and Jack Hensely and British hostage Ken Bigley were still alive after being kidnapped September 16 from their Baghdad home. The second attempt, a source with direct knowledge said, came after Armstrong was beheaded, around September 20. The official told CNN a lot of people had a lot of sleepless nights trying to find them. Bigley was killed last week after attempting to escape after some three weeks in brutal captivity.

An official confirms the attempts to rescue the hostages from the Abu Musab al-Zarqawi network involved the deployment of U.S. military, as well as government personnel. The U.S. rescue teams on two operate occasions went to locations in Baghdad, based on intelligence that indicated the hostages were being held there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(on camera): But, Daryn, when the rescue teams got to both of those locations, they came up with dry holes, empty, as you will. What we are told is there was evidence that someone had been at these locations but they were gone, empty. No clear understanding whether the hostages had been moved or it was bad intel and they were never there to begin with -- Daryn.

KAGAN: But it would seem the challenge yet again in dealing with this type of situation is intelligence. And there really is no replacement for good intelligence.

STARR: That's right. They were -- they were operating the teams deployed on the basis that they had some intelligence. It's what they train for, the Special Forces and other personnel.

They train, train, train. And when they get good intelligence, they're ready to move. This time, it did not work out -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Barbara, thank you.

The brother of one of those hostages said that his family was secretly told about the rescue attempts. Jack Hensley's brother, Ty Hensley, says relatives had a little bit of information that things were being done. Earlier today on CNN, Ty Hensely also talked about the need for reliable intelligence in the war on terror.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TY HENSLEY, JACK HENSLEY'S BROTHER: The intelligence probably is -- is part of the war right now, and this may be the bigger part. And for us to be able to finish our mission or accomplish the mission was we accomplish was we need better intelligence in order to get out of there. And we need to help these people. We need to rebuild that country and get out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Ty Hensley also said he's surprised that word got out about the secret operation.

We have seen steam and smoke, but now Mount St. Helens showing us something a little bit new. The very latest form the mountain coming up next.

And should juvenile offenders face the death penalty? That's the tough question the Supreme Court has taken up. A live report just ahead

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Well, she's been rumbling for weeks. Lava now has finally, finally bubbled to the surface of Mount St. Helens. There is no fiery river of red-hot lava, however, but rather more subtle signs of molten rock. Experts say that explosive eruptions are still possible at the volcano.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: The Supreme Court is debating a key death penalty case today. Can someone be executed for a crime they committed when they were a teenager? Our national correspondent, Bob Franken, joins us at the high court this morning.

Bob, good morning.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

And this involves a defendant who has been on death row since he was convicted of a crime he did when he was 17 years old, the brutal murder of a next-door neighbor, along with an accomplice. He is now 28, but the issue remains, should he be put to death, as was sentenced in Missouri?

Last year, a state court there ruled that the law providing for that was unconstitutional. So now Christopher Simmons has his case before the U.S. Supreme Court.

And the solicitor of Missouri, James Layton, said that there are 17-year-olds who are equally culpable with those who are 18, 25, or somewhere beyond. In 1989, the high court here had set a standard of 16-year-old. Anything below that would violate the rules of cruel and unusual punishment.

That was written by Sandra day O'Connor, who pointed out today -- she said it's just about the same thing -- quoting -- "It's just about the same at 16, as well as 18." Now, there was a long discussion about the fact that so many people from other countries had submitted briefs in support of doing away with the death penalty for juveniles, defining it as 18. And that was a -- brought on a huge discussion about whether we should allow international standards in the United States to determine what is cruel and unusual punishment.

In the word of Justice Antonin Scalia, "Should we yield to that?" The argument that's came from Seth Waxman, who's arguing on behalf of the defendant, that it was not just a substantial consensus in the world, there was a substantial consensus in the United States that the standards had evolved.

This is an important doctrine that has been now illuminated in various cases that involving standards can change what amounts to cruel and unusual punishment. Just a couple of years ago, there was a case involving execution of the mentally retarded, and the court decided then that standards had evolved and no longer could that be allowed.

The argument today on behalf of the defendant was that also applies to juveniles and maturity. So it is a case, probably the most important case you're going to see in this term, having to do with capital punishment. It's an ever-evolving field -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Bob Franken in Washington, D.C. Thank you for that.

We are hours away from the final debate showdown, the last debate between George W. Bush and John Kerry. Will both sides come out swinging? Our Bill Schneider gives us a preview coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan in Atlanta. Let's check what's happening now in the news for this Wednesday, the 13th of October.

President Bush is in Arizona this morning for the final presidential debate. He and Senator Kerry will focus on domestic issues in this round. It will be held at Arizona State University, ASU, in Tempe.

Senator Kerry arrives in Arizona shortly after practicing for the debate in New Mexico. He's expected to needle the president on gas prices and jobs.

Live coverage of the event tonight on CNN beginning at 7:00 Eastern.

Lynndie England, one of the soldiers charged in Iraq's prisoner abuse scandal, is a new mother. The family says it won't release details about the birth. But one newspaper says the baby is a boy.

And the judge in the Scott Peterson murder trial is delaying the start of the defense case for a week. He cites legal issues.

Keeping you informed, CNN is the most trusted name in news. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired October 13, 2004 - 10:59   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take a look at what's happening now in the news.
President Bush and Senator Kerry get ready for a duel over domestic issues. They meet tonight in Tempe, Arizona, for the third and final presidential debate. We'll have a preview from both campaigns in just a few minutes.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair today denied that he misrepresented intelligence on Iraqi weapons. Blair admits again that intelligence pointing to stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons was flawed, but he defended his decision to support the war in Iraq. And he rejected calls that he apologize for misleading the country.

An investigative panel today starting looking into complaints about the Afghan elections. One of the panel members says vote counting will begin soon after the complaints are reviewed. Also today, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan praised the election, calling it an end to the rule of the gun.

Four U.S. soldiers have been killed in two separate incidents in Baghdad. The military says one soldier died when insurgents set off an explosive device in western Baghdad early today. And three soldiers were killed by a roadside bomb in the eastern part of the capital late yesterday.

A small plume of steam appears to be rising from Mount St. Helens this morning. Scientists confirming yesterday that magma has broken through the surface of the volcano. They say it is slowly building a new lava dome.

Keeping you informed, CNN is the most trusted name in news.

It is 11:00 a.m. on the East Coast and 8:00 a.m. on the West Coast. From CNN Center in Atlanta, good morning once again. I'm Daryn Kagan.

Up first this hour on CNN, the final face-off. President Bush and Senator John Kerry meeting in Tempe, Arizona, tonight for their last debate before the election. The president is expected to attack Kerry as what he calls a tax-and-spend liberal. Aides say Kerry will blast Bush over what they call his record of failure.

The president is already in Arizona this morning. He says he's looking forward to the debate as a chance to point out major differences between him and his Democratic rival. Senator Kerry is scheduled to arrive in Arizona in a little less than three hours from now. He's been in New Mexico preparing for tonight's debate and watching a little bit of baseball.

You can expect both candidates to come out swinging as they slug it out over domestic issues tonight. Let's get a preview from our correspondents. Dana Bash with the Bush camp in Scottsdale, Arizona. Ed Henry is still in Santa Fe, New Mexico, with the Kerry camp.

Dana, we begin with you. Good morning.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn. And, you know, that is exactly what the Bush camp says that they are going to try to do tonight, what you mentioned, which is to highlight what they believe are some fundamental philosophical differences between President Bush and John Kerry. And you can expect, as we've heard on the stump over the past several days from President Bush, for him to portray himself as somebody who wants Americans and voters to have more control over issues like healthcare and Medicare and things like that, but portray Senator Kerry as somebody who is a big government, big spending liberal who has a record to prove it.

Now, Mr. Bush did preview this theme yesterday on the stump in Arizona. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're not going to have fiscal sanity with John Kerry as the president. He's been the most liberal member of the United States Senate, which means he likes to spend your money. That's what that means. Now, he can try to run from his record, but I'm not going to let him hide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, Bush aides are very well aware that the topics for tonight, which will be focused on domestic issues, do play to Senator Kerry's turf. And let's take a look at some numbers that illustrate that.

From healthcare, to deficit, to Medicare, the president trails John Kerry by 19 percent, 13 percent, 15 percentage points. Now, these are big hurdles Bush aides know that they have to get over. But they also point out that on the economy that they're a little bit closer, on taxes President Bush does have a slight edge. And they also realize and think that Mr. Bush is somebody who's been perceived and has really been focused on as a war president.

And voters really haven't had a chance to listen to and see the president very much in terms of his ideas for domestic policy. He certainly tried to lay that out in his convention, and they admit at the Bush campaign that it's gotten overshadowed by Iraq.

And Daryn, I should say, in terms of mood, the Bush campaign says if they are giddy over at camp Kerry, they are simply matter of fact over at the Bush campaign. They understand that they have to get over the perception that John Kerry won the first two debates, but they are privately saying that they are hoping that this -- tonight -- that they can over it tonight and get the president back on stump, because that is where he's more comfortable.

KAGAN: Yes. And what about the format tonight? He seemed to be less comfortable -- it's similar to debate one, correct, instead of debate two?

BASH: That's correct. And that is something that they're well aware of, that they're going to be behind podiums tonight, that they're not going to have the sort of town hall format that the president seemed to be more comfortable in last time.

But certainly, as we've been reporting, the president did look at the tapes from the first event. And that he perhaps is somebody who is competitive and understands what he did wrong and will try to, at least in terms of his expressions that he even makes fun of himself on, try to contain himself and try to be a little bit more comfortable.

KAGAN: All right. Dana Bash in Scottsdale. Thank you. Enjoying the cactus behind you there.

Let's go head further into the Southwest, the Kerry campaign. Correspondent Ed Henry is in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Good morning.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning again, Daryn.

That's right, as you just heard Dana mentioning, the Kerry camp knows that President Bush has been very much on the attack this week. The Kerry camp believes that the president has been distorting the senator's record on issues like taxes and healthcare.

They're vowing that John Kerry will hit back very hard tonight. And they're saying that they won the first two debates. They feel kind of an air of confidence heading into this third debate. They think they can go three for three.

And, in fact, what did John Kerry do on the eve of what could be the biggest moment in his political life? He went for a bike ride.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): After Kerry's 45-minute bike ride, the Red Sox fan tuned into game one of Boston's dramatic playoff series with the Yankees, all to project the image Kerry is calm, cool, collected heading into tonight's final showdown with President Bush.

DAVID WADE, KERRY PRESS SECRETARY: Well, I think the pressure is on the president. And it seems like the president and the vice president, both, as you've seen in these harsh attacks following each debate, they've sort of decided to write off all the undecided voters and to speak only to their hardened Republican base. HENRY: While Kerry has been relaxing in between debate prep, the president has relentless in trying to shred the senator's record.

BUSH: You're not going to have fiscal sanity with John Kerry as the president. He has been the most liberal member of the United States Senate, which means he likes to spend your money.

HENRY: Aides say Kerry was right not to directly respond to those attacks this week. They say he will fire back tonight.

WADE: He has prepared hard for this debate. He's ready.

HENRY: With Kerry off the stump, his running mate is doing the talking, testing out some of the lines that Kerry may use on domestic issues, like stem cell research.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If we do the work that we can do in this country, the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going to get up out of that wheelchair and walk again. That's what we can do in America.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HENRY (on camera): Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist called those comments "crass" and "shameful." Republicans think that the Democratic ticket is politicizing the death of Christopher Reeve.

Edwards shot back that what he believes what's really crass here is that the president is standing in the way of stem cell research that could cure a lot of dread diseases. Obviously, the rhetoric getting very hot from both sided heading into tonight's showdown -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Ed Henry in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Thank you.

CNN is live in Tempe for the final face-off between the president and Senator Kerry. Anderson Cooper and Paula Zahn kick off our prime- time coverage tonight at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Wolf Blitzer and our election team will have a pre-debate special at 8:30, followed by the debate at 9:00.

The law of supply and demand appears to be hard at work with the flu vaccine. With a shortage looming this season, there are reports now of price gouging. Financial correspondent Fred Katayama is in New York with more on that.

Fred, good morning.

FRED KATAYAMA, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

Well, the shortage of flu vaccine has spun widespread reports of price gouging. Some vendors are charging outrageous prices and some hospitals are so short and eager for the vaccine that they're buying them at inflated rates. A survey sent to more than 2,500 hospital pharmacies by the American Society of Health System Pharmacists, shows disturbing results. More than half of the respondents reported they have been offered flu vaccine at highly-inflated prices. Of these, more than 80 percent say the price being offered was more than four times the original market value, and nearly 20 percent said they were offered vaccine at more than 10 times the original value, or $800 per 10 doses. That works out to $80 a dose.

And Kansas' attorney general is suing a Florida company that says was selling its vaccine at more than 10 times the normal price. Kansas officials say Fort Lauderdale-based MEDSTAT charged $85 for 10 dose before the shortage. One week later, it charged $900. Calls to MEDSTAT's attorneys were not returned.

Centers for Disease Control director Dr. Julie Gerberding called the price gouging an immoral thing. She said it's a state issue with a definition of price gouging varying from state to state.

The U.S. supply of flu vaccine was cut in half after British officials temporarily suspended the manufacturing license of one of the biggest manufacturers, Chiron. The hospital pharmacy survey, Daryn, by the way, showed that more than three-fourths of the hospitals said they will not have enough vaccine on hand to meet CDC recommendations -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right. A lot of people struggling with that situation. Fred Katayama, thank you.

We know their tragic fate, but what we're now learning is just what happened in the days leading up to the beheading of two American hostages. Not one, but two rescue attempts. The story and details on that coming up.

Also, juvenile injustice? The Supreme Court takes up the issue of executing under-age criminals.

And later, he'll talk movies and politics, and we're hoping he'll talk about his friend Christopher Reeve and probably anything else Robin Williams feels like doing. One-on-one with Robin Williams live.

I'm back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: U.S. forces have unearthed a mass grave in northwestern Iraq. It appears to hold the remains of dozens, if not hundreds of people. Many are said to be Kurdish women and children. Forensic experts are gathering evidence at the site to use in a war crimes trial against Saddam Hussein.

CNN has learned of two covert U.S. operations intended to rescue hostages taken in Iraq. Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, has that story for us.

Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Daryn. Indeed, two unsuccessful rescue attempts for hostages held and then executed by the network of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): The first rescue attempt came when Americans Eugene Armstrong and Jack Hensely and British hostage Ken Bigley were still alive after being kidnapped September 16 from their Baghdad home. The second attempt, a source with direct knowledge said, came after Armstrong was beheaded, around September 20. The official told CNN a lot of people had a lot of sleepless nights trying to find them. Bigley was killed last week after attempting to escape after some three weeks in brutal captivity.

An official confirms the attempts to rescue the hostages from the Abu Musab al-Zarqawi network involved the deployment of U.S. military, as well as government personnel. The U.S. rescue teams on two operate occasions went to locations in Baghdad, based on intelligence that indicated the hostages were being held there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(on camera): But, Daryn, when the rescue teams got to both of those locations, they came up with dry holes, empty, as you will. What we are told is there was evidence that someone had been at these locations but they were gone, empty. No clear understanding whether the hostages had been moved or it was bad intel and they were never there to begin with -- Daryn.

KAGAN: But it would seem the challenge yet again in dealing with this type of situation is intelligence. And there really is no replacement for good intelligence.

STARR: That's right. They were -- they were operating the teams deployed on the basis that they had some intelligence. It's what they train for, the Special Forces and other personnel.

They train, train, train. And when they get good intelligence, they're ready to move. This time, it did not work out -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Barbara, thank you.

The brother of one of those hostages said that his family was secretly told about the rescue attempts. Jack Hensley's brother, Ty Hensley, says relatives had a little bit of information that things were being done. Earlier today on CNN, Ty Hensely also talked about the need for reliable intelligence in the war on terror.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TY HENSLEY, JACK HENSLEY'S BROTHER: The intelligence probably is -- is part of the war right now, and this may be the bigger part. And for us to be able to finish our mission or accomplish the mission was we accomplish was we need better intelligence in order to get out of there. And we need to help these people. We need to rebuild that country and get out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Ty Hensley also said he's surprised that word got out about the secret operation.

We have seen steam and smoke, but now Mount St. Helens showing us something a little bit new. The very latest form the mountain coming up next.

And should juvenile offenders face the death penalty? That's the tough question the Supreme Court has taken up. A live report just ahead

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KAGAN: Well, she's been rumbling for weeks. Lava now has finally, finally bubbled to the surface of Mount St. Helens. There is no fiery river of red-hot lava, however, but rather more subtle signs of molten rock. Experts say that explosive eruptions are still possible at the volcano.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: The Supreme Court is debating a key death penalty case today. Can someone be executed for a crime they committed when they were a teenager? Our national correspondent, Bob Franken, joins us at the high court this morning.

Bob, good morning.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

And this involves a defendant who has been on death row since he was convicted of a crime he did when he was 17 years old, the brutal murder of a next-door neighbor, along with an accomplice. He is now 28, but the issue remains, should he be put to death, as was sentenced in Missouri?

Last year, a state court there ruled that the law providing for that was unconstitutional. So now Christopher Simmons has his case before the U.S. Supreme Court.

And the solicitor of Missouri, James Layton, said that there are 17-year-olds who are equally culpable with those who are 18, 25, or somewhere beyond. In 1989, the high court here had set a standard of 16-year-old. Anything below that would violate the rules of cruel and unusual punishment.

That was written by Sandra day O'Connor, who pointed out today -- she said it's just about the same thing -- quoting -- "It's just about the same at 16, as well as 18." Now, there was a long discussion about the fact that so many people from other countries had submitted briefs in support of doing away with the death penalty for juveniles, defining it as 18. And that was a -- brought on a huge discussion about whether we should allow international standards in the United States to determine what is cruel and unusual punishment.

In the word of Justice Antonin Scalia, "Should we yield to that?" The argument that's came from Seth Waxman, who's arguing on behalf of the defendant, that it was not just a substantial consensus in the world, there was a substantial consensus in the United States that the standards had evolved.

This is an important doctrine that has been now illuminated in various cases that involving standards can change what amounts to cruel and unusual punishment. Just a couple of years ago, there was a case involving execution of the mentally retarded, and the court decided then that standards had evolved and no longer could that be allowed.

The argument today on behalf of the defendant was that also applies to juveniles and maturity. So it is a case, probably the most important case you're going to see in this term, having to do with capital punishment. It's an ever-evolving field -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Bob Franken in Washington, D.C. Thank you for that.

We are hours away from the final debate showdown, the last debate between George W. Bush and John Kerry. Will both sides come out swinging? Our Bill Schneider gives us a preview coming up next.

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KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan in Atlanta. Let's check what's happening now in the news for this Wednesday, the 13th of October.

President Bush is in Arizona this morning for the final presidential debate. He and Senator Kerry will focus on domestic issues in this round. It will be held at Arizona State University, ASU, in Tempe.

Senator Kerry arrives in Arizona shortly after practicing for the debate in New Mexico. He's expected to needle the president on gas prices and jobs.

Live coverage of the event tonight on CNN beginning at 7:00 Eastern.

Lynndie England, one of the soldiers charged in Iraq's prisoner abuse scandal, is a new mother. The family says it won't release details about the birth. But one newspaper says the baby is a boy.

And the judge in the Scott Peterson murder trial is delaying the start of the defense case for a week. He cites legal issues.

Keeping you informed, CNN is the most trusted name in news. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com