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CNN Live Today
Congress Raises U.S. Debt Limit; Baghdad Bombing Kills 5 Police Officers; Questions Arise Over Purported Iran Nuclear Site
Aired November 19, 2004 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CO-HOST: Our top stories now in the news, as President Bush heads to the APEC summit in Santiago, Chile, police and protesters clash in the streets. The demonstrators say they oppose President Bush and the war in Iraq, as well as what they call APEC's promotion of capitalism. We'll have a live report from Santiago straight ahead.
Islamic militants say Iraqis who participate in the January election will face retribution. The warning on an Islamic web site says anyone running for office will be punished as an infidel and voters and polling places risk attack. The web site also denounces democracy as ungodly.
There's a glimmer of hope this morning that the long civil war in southern Sudan could be nearing an end. The U.N. Security Council members made a rare trip to Nairobi, Kenya, to witness the warring parties' formal pledge to finalize a peace deal they agreed to earlier this year.
The U.S. ambassador to the U.N. says the official signing of that peace agreement will be December 31.
And in Congress, Senator Arlen Specter will likely be the next chairman of the judiciary committee. After all, Republicans yesterday announced their unanimous support for Specter. Conservatives who had lobbied against Specter say the Pennsylvania Republican will assume his new post in January, quote, "on a very short leash."
It's 11 a.m. on the East Coast, 8 a.m. out West. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Fredricka Whitfield, in for Daryn Kagan this morning.
RICK SANCHEZ, CO-HOST: And I'm Rick Sanchez.
Our top story this hour: It is a critical pocketbook issue that will be around for a very long time.
Late last night, Congress approved raising the federal debt limit to nearly $8.2 trillion. It's actually $8.18. But it solves a short- term problem of keeping the government running, but the long-term consequences could be something entirely different.
Ali Velshi of CNN financial news is here to try and put all these zeros into perspective and try to explain what it would actually take to try and pay something like this off.
I guess on layman's terms, Ali.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Almost impossible to do. I deal with numbers all day, and these one are beyond what we are used to comprehending. Rick, let's talk about this.
Right now, the debt, depending on who you ask, running at about $7.4 trillion. $7.4 trillion. That's $7,400,000,000.
Now, we are spending money at a rate of about $1 million per -- per hour. That's the United States government spending. All the things that the government spends money on.
Let's just put that into perspective for you. A million -- if you pile up a bunch of dollar bills next to me -- I'm about 5'9" and change, so, my height and width dollar bills is about $400,000. So two and a half of me, per hour in dollar bill being spent all the time.
Now, we are spending a little more than -- than we're authorized to spend so, Congress, as you said, approved this $800, $800 billion increase to the money that we already owe.
Now, of the money we owe, of that $7.4 trillion we have to pay interest on that, right? In the way of bonds and things like that. So the interest on that comes to what -- we are looking at on that? Three hundred billion dollars a year.
Now, just to put the whole thing in perspective, $300 billion is the same as the -- as Belgium's entire gross domestic product, all of the stuff that Belgium does. It's also -- it will buy you 363 B-2 bombers. I was looking really hard for the kind of things that money like this buys. Three hundred and sixty-three B-2 bombers.
When you look back at the entire federal debt that we were talking about, the $7.4 trillion, we owe more money than the entire GDP of China, just to put that in perspective.
All right. Now, let's talk about the proposed increase. That's $800 billion. So we are now allowing the government to get $800 billion further into debt.
That is the entire combined value, $800 billion, the entire combined value of some of the biggest companies in the world. General Electric, which is worth about a little under $400 billion, Microsoft, worth a little under $300 billion, and Verizon, another $115 billion. So, for that amount of money, just the increase, you could buy all three of those companies.
Now, let's talk about the -- the proposed debt ceiling. You talked about it earlier: $8.2 trillion is what they're looking at getting up to. There's just no way to explain what $8.2 trillion is. Most people would need some help in actually knowing what it looks like. So, I've done this to see if we can sort of get a sense, it's $8.18 trillion.
SANCHEZ: Wow. VELSHI: That's nine zeros after the 180.
You know, I looked for the most expensive house in the country, the most expensive house in the world. We can't top $100 million with that. The International Space Station maybe $20 billion. This is just an insurmountable, huge amount of money.
It's worth some concern about how this plans to get paid off, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Concern why? Do the average viewer, person like the rest of us who are just trying to make ends meet out there every day, why should that huge number bother me?
VELSHI: Well, a couple things. One is that that amounts to about $25,000 per average citizen. Now, it's not that we all owe this money, and this money is owed to investors in bonds, people who invest in the U.S. government.
But when you go beyond the amount that we've actually agreed upon as a limit, which is why Congress had to authorize this $800 billion, because we're already pushing past the -- the pre-approved spending limit.
It's kind of like a credit card. Once you go beyond that -- that limit, your credit rating goes down. People have less faith in your ability to do business, your ability pay bills.
Now most people say this is the United States of America, it will pay its bills. That's true. But the world has a monetary system that says you guys have a credit limit, and you guys shouldn't go beyond your credit limit. And if you do, you have to explain how to pay for that.
And that's where the question comes in: How do you pay for that? Does that mean raising taxes? Does that mean that Social Security isn't safe later on? That's why people should be concerned.
The same reason that if you bust through your $5,000 credit limit on your credit card, sure, you're happy you can do more spending for the holiday season, but in the end, how are you paying it down? That's where the question is right now.
SANCHEZ: Now, Greenspan, apparently, is a little bit concerned about this, as well. He some made comments about it just yesterday. When he starts saying he's concerned, does everybody else follow suit and does that become tumultuous?
VELSHI: I would suspect that that influences people more than anybody else saying they're concerned. Because you kind of expect the government to say, "We've got it under control."
Greenspan is not the kind of guy who wants to miss targets, not the kind of guy who wants to have estimates that don't reflect reality a year or five years later. Remember, we have a dollar that is at record lows against world currencies. We have a lot of challenges on a very, very international scale right now, and this doesn't really help.
Now a lot of people say, don't worry too much about it right now, but it's worth some consideration as we go into a new Congress about how this government that's supposed to be conservative is going to keep a handle on spending. It's a big challenge for the Bush administration, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Yes. It puts fiscal conservatism in a whole new light.
VELSHI: Yes, absolutely.
SANCHEZ: That was great, Ali. Thanks, for the explanation.
VELSHI: OK, Rick.
SANCHEZ: You made it make sense.
For more on the debt limit hike and today's other top stories that we've been following for you, all you've got to do is log on to our web site at CNN.com. You will find the latest news along with in- depth information, as well on the stories that affect your life.
WHITFIELD: The economy is one thing and Iraq is another. Huge issue concerning a lot of Americans. A car bomb in Baghdad this morning targeted a police convoy, killing at least five officers.
CNN's Karl Penhaul is in Baghdad with this report -- Karl.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fredricka.
That car bomb exploded in an eastern residential section of Baghdad, mid-afternoon our time, your time morning.
We're told by police that a suicide car bomber drove a Mercedes vehicle laden with explosives towards a police checkpoint, where three police vehicles were parked. And as he drove past those vehicles, he detonated the explosive device.
Police tell us that he killed five policemen. He wounded four other policemen, and four civilian -- six civilian bystanders are also hospitalized with wounds from that explosion.
The area where the bombing took place is largely a residential area, but in the neighborhood, as well, there is also a police station.
Now, earlier than that, at the end of Friday prayers, a shootout at one of the main mosques here in Baghdad in the northern old city, if you like.
We're told there by eyewitnesses that the mosque preacher, the cleric, had been giving a very fiery sermon denouncing the U.S.-led assault on the city of Falluja, and then at some point, not quite clear of the circumstances, but a shootout began between some of the worshipers and a group of Iraqi National Guardsmen who were outside the mosque.
In that shootout, police tell us that two civilians were killed, seven others were wounded. Again, as I say, not clear exactly how that shootout started, but some media reports do suggest that some of the Iraqi National Guard may have entered the mosque compound. What we do know over the last few days is the Iraqi government has pledged to hunt down clerics who are seen as inciting anti-U.S. violence -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: All right. Karl Penhaul, thanks for that report from Baghdad.
Well, the Bush administration says Iran may be trying to make a missile that can deliver a nuclear warhead. But after the intel debacle with Iraq's weapons, there are now questions today about the Iran claim.
U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell publicized the allegation of Iran this week, that it was running a covert nuclear program, but today's "Washington Post" reports the intelligence Powell based his statement on appears iffy at best.
The paper says Powell's disclosure was based on a single unvetted source, what's known in the intelligence business as a walk-in, someone who gives unsolicited information.
Let's explore the Bush administration's credibility when it comes to claims of this sort. Jim Walsh is with the Belfer Center at Harvard University and joins us this morning in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Good to see you, Jim.
JIM WALSH, BELFER CENTER, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Good morning, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Well, this could indeed be perhaps one of the biggest challenges for the Bush's second administration. What need it do to try to win back some credibility problems that it just may have as a result of Iraq?
WALSH: Well, I think it's going to be very difficult. David Kay, who was a weapons inspector and who led the Iraq survey team looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, said the other day, said this week that the debacle with the Iraqi intelligence undermines U.S. credibility. I don't think there's any way of getting around that.
I think with respect to whether it's Iran or North Korea or some challenge in the future, the only way the U.S. is going to be able to regain that credibility is it if provides very specific credible evidence. If it comes out and says, "Here are the reasons; here are the photos. Here are the intercepts we have." And of course, the U.S. doesn't like revealing that sort of stuff, because it gets into this issues of sources and methods, and the U.S. Likes to keep its sources and methods secret. But it may have to do that if it wants to convince the rest of the world.
WHITFIELD: And for a couple of years now, the U.S. has said or at least made such allegation about Iran. The IAEA, the U.N., neither group has been able to come out with any kind of evidence. So, knowing that, as you say or paint the picture, the U.S. would have to reveal some kind of classified information, that just might happen. What has to be the next -- potential next step?
WALSH: Well, I think we really should focus on the International Atomic Energy Agency, the IAEA, which you alluded to.
The IAEA, as the Iraq war demonstrated, actually got it right, and the inspections were very effective. They forced Saddam to destroy his weapons of mass destruction for fear of being caught.
And I think the IAEA has proven itself very effective. It's gone into Iran. It's found discrepancies in Iran's statements and declarations and then it's forced them to come clean. So I think it's a very powerful tool, a very powerful verification tool.
And one of the good -- one of the good things that happened this week is with this agreement between Europe and Iran, IAEA is going to be back in Iran and is going to be trying to verify those declarations that Iran is making.
WHITFIELD: You mentioned the U.S. credibility is at stake, perhaps jeopardized from these allegations. What about the outgoing secretary of state, Colin Powell?
WALSH: Well, I think it's really a double blow for the Bush administration on this particular issue, the issue of credibility. Why? Because Secretary Powell, even with all that happened in Iraq, I think is seen by the rest of the world as a straight shooter.
Remember, after he gave that presentation to the U.N. and it was found to be faulty, he came out and he actually apologized. I think he's the only member of the administration that did that. And he is seen as a credible person around the world.
Whenever President Bush had a problem, you always saw him pushing Colin Powell out into the limelight, because he knew that he had some gravitas, some relationship with other leaders.
He's gone now. And it's not clear to me that Dr. Rice is going to have the same -- carry the same weight as Colin Powell did. So again, not only are there problems with Iraq; we now have changes in personnel that make the job tougher.
WHITFIELD: All right. Jim Walsh of Harvard University from Cambridge, Massachusetts. Thanks so much -- Rick.
WALSH: Thank you, Fredricka. SANCHEZ: Here's another story we're following. The ethical debate over human cloning is before the United Nations today. Almost all U.N. members favor an international ban on human cloning, but the language that they're considering is something far different than that.
And our senior U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth, is here to put this one together for us.
Hi, Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Rick.
Well, you thought Iraq divided the United Nations? Try the issue of cloning.
This afternoon in New York a key committee of the U.N. General Assembly is going to discuss the cloning issue, yet again. The United States has been pushing for three years for a total ban on human cloning or therapeutic cloning.
The division seen in the U.S. political campaign, the push by the Bush administration on this issue, carried over here into the international arena.
However, many countries that oppose the United States on a complete cloning ban. Belgium is on the other side, introducing a resolution, the U.S. siding with Costa Rica.
But we don't know exactly what exactly is going to happen this afternoon. It could be a vote on a declaration, sort of a compromise, which was pushed by Italy. To show you how divided this issue is in the General Assembly, a year ago the vote was 80-79, just to defer the matter for two years -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: Richard Roth, you're going to be following that for us. Certainly, we'll be checking back if need be. Thank you.
WHITFIELD: Well, the president is en route to Santiago, Chile, as we've been reporting all morning, where thousands of protesters are already gathered. We'll go live to the site of the APEC summit.
SANCHEZ: Also a cold case that gives new meaning to the word. We're going to give you information about a woman's deathbed confession and a grisly find by police.
WHITFIELD: And a cross-dressing controversy in east Texas. Find out why the kids are being encouraged to wear camouflage.
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WHITFIELD: A woman's dying confession led to a grisly discovery at a storage facility in Somerville, Massachusetts. Authorities say a freezer sealed with duct tape inside the storage locker was found to hold the remains of the woman's husband.
Just before she died, the woman apparently confessed to killing her husband many years earlier. Authorities believe the body and been in the freezer at least six years and possibly as long as 14 years.
SANCHEZ: Residents of Greenwich, Connecticut, and Rye, New York, are on edge right now following a rash of reports in recent days of attempted abductions of school children.
Now, we've got a sketch we can show you here made by police of the male suspect, said to be a white male with curly -- with black curly hair and a raspy voice, they say. He cruises the streets in a green minivan or an SUV. A blonde female companion is also believed to be with him.
Courtney Chamberlain of CNN affiliate 12 News in Greenwich has the story.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They need to hunt him down; they need to find this person.
COURTNEY CHAMBERLAIN, 12-NEWS REPORTER (voice-over): Greenwich parents are on high alert. Once again, they're frightened after hearing of another attempted abduction not far from home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes me feel very wary. I won't let my granddaughter walk home from school, which she likes to do sometimes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll be doing everything we can to identify these individuals.
CHAMBERLAIN: Greenwich police and members of about 25 other departments met this morning at Rye, New York, police headquarters, working together to find out who is responsible.
They believe six attempted abductions are related: two in Greenwich and one in Rye in October and three in Rye in just over the past three days. In all cases, the vehicle involved was described as being a green minivan or SUV often with a man and a woman inside.
Greenwich schools are reacting, as well, sending home a sketch of the alleged abdicator and safety tips to parents and students.
MARIA MELENDEZ, GREENWICH DEP. SUPERVISOR: A very, very simple message. Do not talk to strangers. Do not get near a car that you're not familiar with. Be vigilant. If you see anything that you are suspicious of, call 911.
CHAMBERLAIN: Parents and students seem to be listening, just as police hope the alleged abdicator or abdicators is listening to the message they hope to make clear. WILLIAM CONNORS, RYE POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, the message is, we're going to find him sooner or later. So I would suggest they stop now.
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SANCHEZ: Courtney Chamberlain of CNN affiliate 12 News in Greenwich, Connecticut.
WHITFIELD: More on the allegations that the FDA was asleep at the wheel. Some officials are said to have ignored the warnings about the drug Vioxx. We'll have the full story.
SANCHEZ: Also, Microsoft's Internet explorer gets some new competition. We're going to look at the other Web browser out there and why some people are switching.
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WHITFIELD: Well, perhaps you're sick and tired of pop-up ads, spyware and other annoying aspects of your Internet browser. There's a new way to surf the Web out there. It's called Firefox, and it could cure a lot of Internet ills.
CNN technology correspondent Daniel Sieberg is here to explain all these great deals.
DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Fred, thanks so much.
The first rounds have been fired in the latest browser war and the question now is how will it reshape the online landscape?
Let's take a quick trip back in time, if you will. Remember Netscape? Yes, Netscape is still around. It's part of our parent company, Time Warner. You'll recall that Netscape used to dominate the browser market in the early days of the Web.
Then along came Microsoft and years passed. We had some controversial bundling of software from Microsoft. And by the late 1990s, Internet Explorer had really reduced Netscape to just a few dedicated users.
OK. Fast-forward to today and the fox in Microsoft's hen house, Firefox, is this new browser from a non-profit offshoot of Netscape called Mozilla. Now, it promises to be safer, easier, and safer than IE when it comes to viruses and spyware and that sort of thing. Oh, by the way, it's free.
But it still isn't perfect with every web site out there. It still has growing pains to go through, and that's because some places designed their pages to be read on Internet Explorer. So, is Microsoft taking notice? Well, you bet. Are they worried? Well, they're not exactly pulling out all the stops at this point, but it has been a long time since a company started firing shots in the browser market. Microsoft is a huge target.
Here are how the battle lines are drawn, with all these browser programs that are out there. Microsoft still with a huge share at 93 percent with Internet Explorer.
Now Firefox at three percent. I know that seems very small, but they claim about four million downloads just in the last month or so since they released it, and that number is going up.
You can see Netscape still there on the scene. Safari, which is Apple's browser, and Opera, which is actually a Norwegian company. They're all vying for more of this cyber-surfing share. Netscape has a new product, by the way. But Safari getting some good reviews, Apple's browser. So it's competing, but, again, it's a limited platform for them.
At this point, the question isn't so much who will win or will Microsoft lose, but how this competition will force some changes in how we surf the Web. Some experts say that Microsoft got a little bit complacent after IE dominated the scene. It's time another company came along to get things fired up, and that could be Firefox.
WHITFIELD: Firefox firing things up.
SIEBERG: Yes.
WHITFIELD: Well, you said it was free.
SIEBERG: Yes.
WHITFIELD: But sometimes if it sounds too good to be true it is.
SIEBERG: Right. That's...
WHITFIELD: So, are there any kind of back-door deals here?
SIEBERG: There are no back door deals at this point. They're kind of an altruistic group. They're an open source group, which means that they're OK with sharing things. It's a community that's made of up of some fairly hardcore tech professionals, and they want to see this out there as a viable alternative to Microsoft.
It really is getting a lot of buzz, I have to tell you, online. And a lot of people are picking it up and checking it out, because it is free.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
SIEBERG: So you can try it out.
WHITFIELD: Folks like to root for the underdog.
SIEBERG: They do.
WHITFIELD: Try something new.
SIEBERG: Right, right. So it may not be so much of a war right now as a bit of a skirmish, let's say.
WHITFIELD: A scuffle.
SIEBERG: Yes, scuffle. We'll see how this progresses.
WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks a lot, Dan.
SIEBERG: All right.
WHITFIELD: All right. Back to you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Thanks, Dan. Thanks, Fred.
Protest in Santiago, Chile. Demonstrators are massing to protest President Bush at the APEC summit. We will take you there live.
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Aired November 19, 2004 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CO-HOST: Our top stories now in the news, as President Bush heads to the APEC summit in Santiago, Chile, police and protesters clash in the streets. The demonstrators say they oppose President Bush and the war in Iraq, as well as what they call APEC's promotion of capitalism. We'll have a live report from Santiago straight ahead.
Islamic militants say Iraqis who participate in the January election will face retribution. The warning on an Islamic web site says anyone running for office will be punished as an infidel and voters and polling places risk attack. The web site also denounces democracy as ungodly.
There's a glimmer of hope this morning that the long civil war in southern Sudan could be nearing an end. The U.N. Security Council members made a rare trip to Nairobi, Kenya, to witness the warring parties' formal pledge to finalize a peace deal they agreed to earlier this year.
The U.S. ambassador to the U.N. says the official signing of that peace agreement will be December 31.
And in Congress, Senator Arlen Specter will likely be the next chairman of the judiciary committee. After all, Republicans yesterday announced their unanimous support for Specter. Conservatives who had lobbied against Specter say the Pennsylvania Republican will assume his new post in January, quote, "on a very short leash."
It's 11 a.m. on the East Coast, 8 a.m. out West. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Fredricka Whitfield, in for Daryn Kagan this morning.
RICK SANCHEZ, CO-HOST: And I'm Rick Sanchez.
Our top story this hour: It is a critical pocketbook issue that will be around for a very long time.
Late last night, Congress approved raising the federal debt limit to nearly $8.2 trillion. It's actually $8.18. But it solves a short- term problem of keeping the government running, but the long-term consequences could be something entirely different.
Ali Velshi of CNN financial news is here to try and put all these zeros into perspective and try to explain what it would actually take to try and pay something like this off.
I guess on layman's terms, Ali.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Almost impossible to do. I deal with numbers all day, and these one are beyond what we are used to comprehending. Rick, let's talk about this.
Right now, the debt, depending on who you ask, running at about $7.4 trillion. $7.4 trillion. That's $7,400,000,000.
Now, we are spending money at a rate of about $1 million per -- per hour. That's the United States government spending. All the things that the government spends money on.
Let's just put that into perspective for you. A million -- if you pile up a bunch of dollar bills next to me -- I'm about 5'9" and change, so, my height and width dollar bills is about $400,000. So two and a half of me, per hour in dollar bill being spent all the time.
Now, we are spending a little more than -- than we're authorized to spend so, Congress, as you said, approved this $800, $800 billion increase to the money that we already owe.
Now, of the money we owe, of that $7.4 trillion we have to pay interest on that, right? In the way of bonds and things like that. So the interest on that comes to what -- we are looking at on that? Three hundred billion dollars a year.
Now, just to put the whole thing in perspective, $300 billion is the same as the -- as Belgium's entire gross domestic product, all of the stuff that Belgium does. It's also -- it will buy you 363 B-2 bombers. I was looking really hard for the kind of things that money like this buys. Three hundred and sixty-three B-2 bombers.
When you look back at the entire federal debt that we were talking about, the $7.4 trillion, we owe more money than the entire GDP of China, just to put that in perspective.
All right. Now, let's talk about the proposed increase. That's $800 billion. So we are now allowing the government to get $800 billion further into debt.
That is the entire combined value, $800 billion, the entire combined value of some of the biggest companies in the world. General Electric, which is worth about a little under $400 billion, Microsoft, worth a little under $300 billion, and Verizon, another $115 billion. So, for that amount of money, just the increase, you could buy all three of those companies.
Now, let's talk about the -- the proposed debt ceiling. You talked about it earlier: $8.2 trillion is what they're looking at getting up to. There's just no way to explain what $8.2 trillion is. Most people would need some help in actually knowing what it looks like. So, I've done this to see if we can sort of get a sense, it's $8.18 trillion.
SANCHEZ: Wow. VELSHI: That's nine zeros after the 180.
You know, I looked for the most expensive house in the country, the most expensive house in the world. We can't top $100 million with that. The International Space Station maybe $20 billion. This is just an insurmountable, huge amount of money.
It's worth some concern about how this plans to get paid off, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Concern why? Do the average viewer, person like the rest of us who are just trying to make ends meet out there every day, why should that huge number bother me?
VELSHI: Well, a couple things. One is that that amounts to about $25,000 per average citizen. Now, it's not that we all owe this money, and this money is owed to investors in bonds, people who invest in the U.S. government.
But when you go beyond the amount that we've actually agreed upon as a limit, which is why Congress had to authorize this $800 billion, because we're already pushing past the -- the pre-approved spending limit.
It's kind of like a credit card. Once you go beyond that -- that limit, your credit rating goes down. People have less faith in your ability to do business, your ability pay bills.
Now most people say this is the United States of America, it will pay its bills. That's true. But the world has a monetary system that says you guys have a credit limit, and you guys shouldn't go beyond your credit limit. And if you do, you have to explain how to pay for that.
And that's where the question comes in: How do you pay for that? Does that mean raising taxes? Does that mean that Social Security isn't safe later on? That's why people should be concerned.
The same reason that if you bust through your $5,000 credit limit on your credit card, sure, you're happy you can do more spending for the holiday season, but in the end, how are you paying it down? That's where the question is right now.
SANCHEZ: Now, Greenspan, apparently, is a little bit concerned about this, as well. He some made comments about it just yesterday. When he starts saying he's concerned, does everybody else follow suit and does that become tumultuous?
VELSHI: I would suspect that that influences people more than anybody else saying they're concerned. Because you kind of expect the government to say, "We've got it under control."
Greenspan is not the kind of guy who wants to miss targets, not the kind of guy who wants to have estimates that don't reflect reality a year or five years later. Remember, we have a dollar that is at record lows against world currencies. We have a lot of challenges on a very, very international scale right now, and this doesn't really help.
Now a lot of people say, don't worry too much about it right now, but it's worth some consideration as we go into a new Congress about how this government that's supposed to be conservative is going to keep a handle on spending. It's a big challenge for the Bush administration, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Yes. It puts fiscal conservatism in a whole new light.
VELSHI: Yes, absolutely.
SANCHEZ: That was great, Ali. Thanks, for the explanation.
VELSHI: OK, Rick.
SANCHEZ: You made it make sense.
For more on the debt limit hike and today's other top stories that we've been following for you, all you've got to do is log on to our web site at CNN.com. You will find the latest news along with in- depth information, as well on the stories that affect your life.
WHITFIELD: The economy is one thing and Iraq is another. Huge issue concerning a lot of Americans. A car bomb in Baghdad this morning targeted a police convoy, killing at least five officers.
CNN's Karl Penhaul is in Baghdad with this report -- Karl.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fredricka.
That car bomb exploded in an eastern residential section of Baghdad, mid-afternoon our time, your time morning.
We're told by police that a suicide car bomber drove a Mercedes vehicle laden with explosives towards a police checkpoint, where three police vehicles were parked. And as he drove past those vehicles, he detonated the explosive device.
Police tell us that he killed five policemen. He wounded four other policemen, and four civilian -- six civilian bystanders are also hospitalized with wounds from that explosion.
The area where the bombing took place is largely a residential area, but in the neighborhood, as well, there is also a police station.
Now, earlier than that, at the end of Friday prayers, a shootout at one of the main mosques here in Baghdad in the northern old city, if you like.
We're told there by eyewitnesses that the mosque preacher, the cleric, had been giving a very fiery sermon denouncing the U.S.-led assault on the city of Falluja, and then at some point, not quite clear of the circumstances, but a shootout began between some of the worshipers and a group of Iraqi National Guardsmen who were outside the mosque.
In that shootout, police tell us that two civilians were killed, seven others were wounded. Again, as I say, not clear exactly how that shootout started, but some media reports do suggest that some of the Iraqi National Guard may have entered the mosque compound. What we do know over the last few days is the Iraqi government has pledged to hunt down clerics who are seen as inciting anti-U.S. violence -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: All right. Karl Penhaul, thanks for that report from Baghdad.
Well, the Bush administration says Iran may be trying to make a missile that can deliver a nuclear warhead. But after the intel debacle with Iraq's weapons, there are now questions today about the Iran claim.
U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell publicized the allegation of Iran this week, that it was running a covert nuclear program, but today's "Washington Post" reports the intelligence Powell based his statement on appears iffy at best.
The paper says Powell's disclosure was based on a single unvetted source, what's known in the intelligence business as a walk-in, someone who gives unsolicited information.
Let's explore the Bush administration's credibility when it comes to claims of this sort. Jim Walsh is with the Belfer Center at Harvard University and joins us this morning in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Good to see you, Jim.
JIM WALSH, BELFER CENTER, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Good morning, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Well, this could indeed be perhaps one of the biggest challenges for the Bush's second administration. What need it do to try to win back some credibility problems that it just may have as a result of Iraq?
WALSH: Well, I think it's going to be very difficult. David Kay, who was a weapons inspector and who led the Iraq survey team looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, said the other day, said this week that the debacle with the Iraqi intelligence undermines U.S. credibility. I don't think there's any way of getting around that.
I think with respect to whether it's Iran or North Korea or some challenge in the future, the only way the U.S. is going to be able to regain that credibility is it if provides very specific credible evidence. If it comes out and says, "Here are the reasons; here are the photos. Here are the intercepts we have." And of course, the U.S. doesn't like revealing that sort of stuff, because it gets into this issues of sources and methods, and the U.S. Likes to keep its sources and methods secret. But it may have to do that if it wants to convince the rest of the world.
WHITFIELD: And for a couple of years now, the U.S. has said or at least made such allegation about Iran. The IAEA, the U.N., neither group has been able to come out with any kind of evidence. So, knowing that, as you say or paint the picture, the U.S. would have to reveal some kind of classified information, that just might happen. What has to be the next -- potential next step?
WALSH: Well, I think we really should focus on the International Atomic Energy Agency, the IAEA, which you alluded to.
The IAEA, as the Iraq war demonstrated, actually got it right, and the inspections were very effective. They forced Saddam to destroy his weapons of mass destruction for fear of being caught.
And I think the IAEA has proven itself very effective. It's gone into Iran. It's found discrepancies in Iran's statements and declarations and then it's forced them to come clean. So I think it's a very powerful tool, a very powerful verification tool.
And one of the good -- one of the good things that happened this week is with this agreement between Europe and Iran, IAEA is going to be back in Iran and is going to be trying to verify those declarations that Iran is making.
WHITFIELD: You mentioned the U.S. credibility is at stake, perhaps jeopardized from these allegations. What about the outgoing secretary of state, Colin Powell?
WALSH: Well, I think it's really a double blow for the Bush administration on this particular issue, the issue of credibility. Why? Because Secretary Powell, even with all that happened in Iraq, I think is seen by the rest of the world as a straight shooter.
Remember, after he gave that presentation to the U.N. and it was found to be faulty, he came out and he actually apologized. I think he's the only member of the administration that did that. And he is seen as a credible person around the world.
Whenever President Bush had a problem, you always saw him pushing Colin Powell out into the limelight, because he knew that he had some gravitas, some relationship with other leaders.
He's gone now. And it's not clear to me that Dr. Rice is going to have the same -- carry the same weight as Colin Powell did. So again, not only are there problems with Iraq; we now have changes in personnel that make the job tougher.
WHITFIELD: All right. Jim Walsh of Harvard University from Cambridge, Massachusetts. Thanks so much -- Rick.
WALSH: Thank you, Fredricka. SANCHEZ: Here's another story we're following. The ethical debate over human cloning is before the United Nations today. Almost all U.N. members favor an international ban on human cloning, but the language that they're considering is something far different than that.
And our senior U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth, is here to put this one together for us.
Hi, Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Rick.
Well, you thought Iraq divided the United Nations? Try the issue of cloning.
This afternoon in New York a key committee of the U.N. General Assembly is going to discuss the cloning issue, yet again. The United States has been pushing for three years for a total ban on human cloning or therapeutic cloning.
The division seen in the U.S. political campaign, the push by the Bush administration on this issue, carried over here into the international arena.
However, many countries that oppose the United States on a complete cloning ban. Belgium is on the other side, introducing a resolution, the U.S. siding with Costa Rica.
But we don't know exactly what exactly is going to happen this afternoon. It could be a vote on a declaration, sort of a compromise, which was pushed by Italy. To show you how divided this issue is in the General Assembly, a year ago the vote was 80-79, just to defer the matter for two years -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: Richard Roth, you're going to be following that for us. Certainly, we'll be checking back if need be. Thank you.
WHITFIELD: Well, the president is en route to Santiago, Chile, as we've been reporting all morning, where thousands of protesters are already gathered. We'll go live to the site of the APEC summit.
SANCHEZ: Also a cold case that gives new meaning to the word. We're going to give you information about a woman's deathbed confession and a grisly find by police.
WHITFIELD: And a cross-dressing controversy in east Texas. Find out why the kids are being encouraged to wear camouflage.
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WHITFIELD: A woman's dying confession led to a grisly discovery at a storage facility in Somerville, Massachusetts. Authorities say a freezer sealed with duct tape inside the storage locker was found to hold the remains of the woman's husband.
Just before she died, the woman apparently confessed to killing her husband many years earlier. Authorities believe the body and been in the freezer at least six years and possibly as long as 14 years.
SANCHEZ: Residents of Greenwich, Connecticut, and Rye, New York, are on edge right now following a rash of reports in recent days of attempted abductions of school children.
Now, we've got a sketch we can show you here made by police of the male suspect, said to be a white male with curly -- with black curly hair and a raspy voice, they say. He cruises the streets in a green minivan or an SUV. A blonde female companion is also believed to be with him.
Courtney Chamberlain of CNN affiliate 12 News in Greenwich has the story.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They need to hunt him down; they need to find this person.
COURTNEY CHAMBERLAIN, 12-NEWS REPORTER (voice-over): Greenwich parents are on high alert. Once again, they're frightened after hearing of another attempted abduction not far from home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes me feel very wary. I won't let my granddaughter walk home from school, which she likes to do sometimes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll be doing everything we can to identify these individuals.
CHAMBERLAIN: Greenwich police and members of about 25 other departments met this morning at Rye, New York, police headquarters, working together to find out who is responsible.
They believe six attempted abductions are related: two in Greenwich and one in Rye in October and three in Rye in just over the past three days. In all cases, the vehicle involved was described as being a green minivan or SUV often with a man and a woman inside.
Greenwich schools are reacting, as well, sending home a sketch of the alleged abdicator and safety tips to parents and students.
MARIA MELENDEZ, GREENWICH DEP. SUPERVISOR: A very, very simple message. Do not talk to strangers. Do not get near a car that you're not familiar with. Be vigilant. If you see anything that you are suspicious of, call 911.
CHAMBERLAIN: Parents and students seem to be listening, just as police hope the alleged abdicator or abdicators is listening to the message they hope to make clear. WILLIAM CONNORS, RYE POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, the message is, we're going to find him sooner or later. So I would suggest they stop now.
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SANCHEZ: Courtney Chamberlain of CNN affiliate 12 News in Greenwich, Connecticut.
WHITFIELD: More on the allegations that the FDA was asleep at the wheel. Some officials are said to have ignored the warnings about the drug Vioxx. We'll have the full story.
SANCHEZ: Also, Microsoft's Internet explorer gets some new competition. We're going to look at the other Web browser out there and why some people are switching.
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WHITFIELD: Well, perhaps you're sick and tired of pop-up ads, spyware and other annoying aspects of your Internet browser. There's a new way to surf the Web out there. It's called Firefox, and it could cure a lot of Internet ills.
CNN technology correspondent Daniel Sieberg is here to explain all these great deals.
DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Fred, thanks so much.
The first rounds have been fired in the latest browser war and the question now is how will it reshape the online landscape?
Let's take a quick trip back in time, if you will. Remember Netscape? Yes, Netscape is still around. It's part of our parent company, Time Warner. You'll recall that Netscape used to dominate the browser market in the early days of the Web.
Then along came Microsoft and years passed. We had some controversial bundling of software from Microsoft. And by the late 1990s, Internet Explorer had really reduced Netscape to just a few dedicated users.
OK. Fast-forward to today and the fox in Microsoft's hen house, Firefox, is this new browser from a non-profit offshoot of Netscape called Mozilla. Now, it promises to be safer, easier, and safer than IE when it comes to viruses and spyware and that sort of thing. Oh, by the way, it's free.
But it still isn't perfect with every web site out there. It still has growing pains to go through, and that's because some places designed their pages to be read on Internet Explorer. So, is Microsoft taking notice? Well, you bet. Are they worried? Well, they're not exactly pulling out all the stops at this point, but it has been a long time since a company started firing shots in the browser market. Microsoft is a huge target.
Here are how the battle lines are drawn, with all these browser programs that are out there. Microsoft still with a huge share at 93 percent with Internet Explorer.
Now Firefox at three percent. I know that seems very small, but they claim about four million downloads just in the last month or so since they released it, and that number is going up.
You can see Netscape still there on the scene. Safari, which is Apple's browser, and Opera, which is actually a Norwegian company. They're all vying for more of this cyber-surfing share. Netscape has a new product, by the way. But Safari getting some good reviews, Apple's browser. So it's competing, but, again, it's a limited platform for them.
At this point, the question isn't so much who will win or will Microsoft lose, but how this competition will force some changes in how we surf the Web. Some experts say that Microsoft got a little bit complacent after IE dominated the scene. It's time another company came along to get things fired up, and that could be Firefox.
WHITFIELD: Firefox firing things up.
SIEBERG: Yes.
WHITFIELD: Well, you said it was free.
SIEBERG: Yes.
WHITFIELD: But sometimes if it sounds too good to be true it is.
SIEBERG: Right. That's...
WHITFIELD: So, are there any kind of back-door deals here?
SIEBERG: There are no back door deals at this point. They're kind of an altruistic group. They're an open source group, which means that they're OK with sharing things. It's a community that's made of up of some fairly hardcore tech professionals, and they want to see this out there as a viable alternative to Microsoft.
It really is getting a lot of buzz, I have to tell you, online. And a lot of people are picking it up and checking it out, because it is free.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
SIEBERG: So you can try it out.
WHITFIELD: Folks like to root for the underdog.
SIEBERG: They do.
WHITFIELD: Try something new.
SIEBERG: Right, right. So it may not be so much of a war right now as a bit of a skirmish, let's say.
WHITFIELD: A scuffle.
SIEBERG: Yes, scuffle. We'll see how this progresses.
WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks a lot, Dan.
SIEBERG: All right.
WHITFIELD: All right. Back to you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Thanks, Dan. Thanks, Fred.
Protest in Santiago, Chile. Demonstrators are massing to protest President Bush at the APEC summit. We will take you there live.
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