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Debates Arise Over 9/11 Intelligence Reform; Wisconsin Shooting Suspect Makes Initial Court Appearance

Aired November 30, 2004 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take a look at what's happening "Now in the News." CNN planning live coverage next hour of an NAACP news conference. The organization's leader, Kweisi Mfume, is leaving. Nine years on that job. "The Baltimore Sun" says that Mfume wants to spend more time with his six sons. There's also speculation that he's eying a Maryland Senate seat.
The leaders of the 9/11 Commission on Capitol Hill today urging the House to compromise and pass a bill to overhaul the intelligence community. The legislation stalled when the GOP leadership pulled the bill earlier this month. Some on Congress claim the reforms would dilute military intelligence at the Pentagon. We'll be going live to Capitol Hill in just a moment.

President Bush is holding talks in Ottawa this hour with the Canadian prime minister, Paul Martin. The two leaders are trying to patch up differences caused by the Iraq war and trade issues. It's the president's first official visit to Canada after four years in office.

And the penalty phase gets started at the top of the hour in the Scott Peterson murder trial. Jurors can recommend life in prison or execution for the deaths of Laci Peterson and her unborn son. Keeping you informed, CNN is the most trusted name in news.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: He's a Laotian immigrant accused of killing six deer hunters in northern Wisconsin. He made his first official court appearance this morning. Chai Vang, you've probably heard of him by now. These are the pictures of him. He faces six counts of murder and two counts of attempted murder.

According to the criminal complaint, Vang says the hunters there, who came to chase him off the land, fired at him after he was caught trespassing. But two survivors of the shooting tell investigators that Vang fired first. The attorney for the shooting suspect has called the case more of a why done it than a who done it.

"Milwaukee Journal Sentinel" reporter John Diedrich has been covering this case and he's joining us now to talk about it. Where do we stand at this point, as far as this case is concerned?

JOHN DIEDRICH, "MILWAUKEE JOURNAL SENTINEL": Well, this morning, as you alluded to, the suspect, Chai Vang, made his initial court appearance. They had the court appearance in the basement of the jail up there in northwestern Wisconsin County. The reason for that was a fear of security, that he might be -- some sort of attempt or something on his life if he were transported over to court. At that hearing, he said that he understood the charges and that his next -- his preliminary hearing will be December 29th, at which time he's expected to enter a plea.

SANCHEZ: John, you know what I want you to explain to our viewers who are watching from all over the country and probably don't understand whatever relationship has developed in your part of the country. With this particular community, he is a Hmong, which are people that came from Laos who eventually came here after the Vietnam War. But what is the relationship between the people there in Wisconsin and parts of Minnesota and the Hmong community and what that bring or portend for this particular case?

DIEDRICH: Well, we've had a large number of Hmong immigrants to both Wisconsin and Minnesota, settling in various parts of each state. The folks who have come in have a strong tradition of hunting. There's an extremely high percentage of hunters among the Hmong population and, of course in Wisconsin as well, among people who have lived here a bit longer, they hunt as well. So this is one of the activities that the two communities interface. And sometimes with some tension arising. There's often problems with people hunting on private property. There's a lot of public land in northern Wisconsin, but there's private property that people guard closely.

SANCHEZ: Are the Hmong, though, looked down upon or perhaps maybe even more importantly, do they perceive that they're looked down upon by the people in the Midwest or some people in the Midwest?

DIEDRICH: Well, yes, there is that perception and there have been some racially charged incidents. And there have been some folks in the community -- the Hmong community who have been careful not to portray this as a defensible situation, but they do say there has been racism and there's been threats that have been called in after this incident. For instance, one community center got a call where somebody said that they would be hunting for Hmong as opposed to deer this final weekend of the deer hunting season.

SANCHEZ: Wow. Yes, that really does explain some of the stories that have been coming out there. It's interesting who he's hired. His attorneys, by the way, are the guy who represented Mark Chmura, the Green Bay Packer, as most people would know people would know it, and also the guy who killed Jeffrey Dahmer. So he's got some high profile attorneys backing him up in this thing.

John Diedrich. We thank you, sir, for joining us and sharing some insight with us on this.

DIEDRICH: My pleasure. Thank you, Rick.

SANCHEZ: All right -- Daryn.

KAGAN: We are keeping our eye on Capitol Hill. Will Congress pass the 9/11 reform bill or will it go on to the next Congress and let them have a chance? Ed Henry checking in from Capitol Hill. Right now, a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: 9/11 commissioners and families who lost loved ones on that day in 2000 are urging Congress to pass intelligence reform legislation. Some family members, though, are pushing for something else. Our congressional correspondent Ed Henry is live today on Capitol Hill.

Ed, hello.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

That's right, really a last-ditch lobbying effort on both sides either to pass it or stop this 9/11 intelligence reform bill. That's because time is of the essence. Congress coming back next week just for a couple of days. This is a last chance to pass this or any other legislation for the year. As a result, CNN has learned that the former 9/11 commission co-chairs, Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton, are planning to meet with Vice President Cheney later this afternoon in order to try to break this stalemate that the legislation has faced for weeks now.

And there also are a lot of families, as you mentioned, on both sides lobbying about this. There's one group of 9/11 families that had a press conference earlier this morning, saying that they think that the bill in its current form is good and that it should move forward. Here is Mary Fetchet, who lost her son on 9/11.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY FETCHET, FAMILIES OF 9/11: Today we have a broken intelligence community riddled by chaos. We hear continued, pointed threats from the terrorists. Yet a strategic plan to make our country safer is in limbo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: But a separate group of 9/11 families just held a press conference as well on Capitol Hill saying that they think the bill in its current form is not good enough and they would rather no reform than bad reform. They in particular are defending Republican Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner, who is trying to add immigration provisions to this legislation, try to tighten the borders. He wants to crack down on illegal immigration. He thinks that's contributing to terrorism. He wants stop it.

Here is another 9/11 family member, Joan Molinaro.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOAN MOLINARO, MOTHER OF 9/11 VICTIM: This is the price I am not willing to pay because you continue to fail in your duties. No bill should pass the Senate, the House, anywhere, unless it contains immigration reform, you secure our borders, you keep my girls alive. You allowed the murder of my son. I will not allow you to kill my daughters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: Now, another point of contention that we've all heard about is the fact that House Armed Services Chairman Duncan Hunter believes that the way the bill is currently written it would make it more difficult for intelligence to get down to the field -- to military troops in the field. He's concerned about that because of the creation of a new director of national intelligence.

But White House spokesman Scott McClennan said yesterday President Bush supports this legislation in its current form. He obviously does not want to hurt troops in the field. He's on board. And Scott McClennan said that later this week, President Bush will be sending a letter to Capitol Hill reiterating his support to congressional leaders -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Well, and that leads to my Ed Henry question of this hour, and that has to do with the politicals of all of this, who are these congressmen, Hunter and Sensenbrenner, to go up against a very powerful president?

HENRY: Well, when you talk to people close to Congressman Sensenbrenner and Congressman Hunter, they say that they are just the two front people, if you will. In fact, there are dozens and dozens of Republicans in the House Republican Conference who do not support the bill as it's currently written.

But Hunter and Sensenbrenner are the ones who have had the guts and the courage to go public and say that they do not think this reform is good enough, but that privately, there are dozens of Republicans who do not like this bill. They have not come forward publicly, but they are saying that Sensenbrenner and Hunter are the ones who are taking the political heat, but there are a lot more people who do not like this deal and that's why they're blocking it -- Daryn.

Ed Henry on Capitol Hill. Ed, thank you.

HENRY: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Well, you've seen it at the movies, James Bond, for example, identifying himself by the iris of his eye, a retinal scanner. Or fake fingerprints featured in "Mission Impossible." Well, now biometric technologies are actually finding their way into some of the most unlikely of places. It may affect you or your life, for example, a grocery store.

CNN technology correspondent Dan Sieberg reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I might forget my credit card, but I'm not forgetting my finger.

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: When Michelle Debose (ph) shops for groceries at her Piggly Wiggly in South Carolina, a scan of her index finger takes the place of writing a check or swiping a credit card. Shoppers can enroll in the pay by touch biometrics system by providing a driver's license and their checking or credit card information.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's easy. It's quick. And you're not fumbling for your debit card and your checkbook to write it down.

SIEBERG (on camera): The Pig, as it's known here in the South, is testing the technology in four different stores before it rolls it out nationwide. Like any new technology, there's always a learning curve. Think back to ATM machines or buying something online. And so they want to make sure that they can balance convenience with security and privacy. I've already registered, so I can just go ahead and use my finger. Thank you.

(voice-over): And fingers aren't the only body parts with characteristics that can be used for security. There are at least half a dozen others that act as your personal password.

(on camera): I am Daniel Sieberg. I promise you I am who I say I am.

(voice-over): At the University of West Virginia's Center for Identification Technology Research, other studies include voice recognition.

MATTHEW MONACO, UNIVERSITY OF WEST VIRGINIA: There's actually a frequency or pitch of your voice. This is an iris scan. This is actually the most accuser biometric system in use today. This essentially is reading your palm.

SIEBERG (on camera): Not a fortune teller?

MONACO: No. It's actually...

SIEBERG: OK.

MONACO: I'm trying to see if you are actually who you say you are.

What it's measuring here is actually 14 different measurements.

SIEBERG (voice-over): Some other measures include hand geometry and facial geometry. Researchers here say a biometric can be more secure than a password or an I.D. card.

PROF. ARUN ROSS, UNIVERSITY OF WEST VIRGINIA: If I give my I.D. card to someone or someone stole it, then they would probably be able to misuse it. However, in biometrics, the person has to be at the point of transaction and he has to offer his biometric trait at that point.

SIEBERG: Before September 11, the focus of biometrics was mainly on making life a little easier for consumers while still helping to prevent identity theft. That focus changed dramatically after the terrorist attacks and the priority shifted to national security.

Legal experts are working directly with scientists on new security measures based on these physical characteristics.

PROF. LISA NELSON, UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH: People are very apprehensive about biometric technology and that fear means that they're going to be less willing to accept it as part of their daily routine. So the more that they -- the less they understand about it, the more fearful they are, which means, I think, that drive, the need for legislation, the need to build in privacy protections.

SIEBERG: Secure biometrics systems extract details from a fingerprint, iris scan or other body part, then get rid of that raw data so it can't be stolen.

PROF. LARRY HORNAK, UNIVERSITY OF WEST VIRGINIA: And one of the basic principles here is to make sure that you design the system and the algorithms such that you can't go backwards.

SIEBERG: Hollywood helps fuel one bizarre but common myth about biometrics. Might someone chop off my finger to get access to all my stuff? After all, it worked for Arnold Schwarzenegger in "The Sixth Day."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE SIXTH DAY")

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: System accessed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIEBERG: Well, scientists say a new sensor, developed in 2003, will give a dismembered digit a definite thumbs down. Older sensors could not.

HORNAK: We've looked at the perspiration pattern that comes from the pores that you can then pick out living individuals relative to spoof or cadavers.

SIEBERG: But fingerprints can be faked -- Play Dough, melted Gummi Bears and a handful of other spoofing tools are used to create then fix vulnerabilities. A stolen fingerprint on Play Dough is a common fraud attempt.

HORNAK: With one of these, you really have only one try and then you've already deformed the spoof enough that it's not going to image very well.

SIEBERG: While biometric tools can work well for company security and retail sites, some privacy watchdogs warn that the technology is being peddled as a silver bullet for enormous tasks like securing airports and builders.

LEE TIEN, ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION: Our feeling is that it's just not ready for prime time right now. You can change a password. You can re-key locks. But, you know, your fingers, you know, your iris, your voice, they're you. So when someone compromises the security of that kind of biometric, you're stuck.

SIEBERG: So before getting stuck, biometric users must decide how high to set the bar to determine what's a match and what's not.

ROSS: The question is what is the cost of making an error? What is the cost of falsely accepting an imposter? If I'm falsely rejected, maybe I'm going to be upset for a couple of seconds, but I could place my finger again. But if it's a false accept, you just let the wrong person into the nuclear facility.

SIEBERG: Some systems combine two different traits, say, a fingerprint and an iris scan, that could dramatically improve security.

So as this technology grows, the next time you go to the grocery store, the cashier's question might not be paper or plastic, but rather finger or eye?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIEBERG: And one quick sidebar in this technology is actually in crime-fighting, the state of Illinois has been using biometrics to help curve fraud and identity theft since 1998. The secretary of state's office has used face geometry when they measure those points on your face when residents have their pictures taken for their drivers license. And their database, which is actually one of the biggest in the world with 16 million images, has been used to track down criminals who have used more than a dozen fake identities to try and commit crimes -- Daryn and Rick.

SANCHEZ: All right. Daniel Sieberg, all over that story. We thank you so much for bringing it to us.

SIEBERG: You bet.

SANCHEZ: We're going to have a whole lot more coming up in just a little bit.

KAGAN: That we will, the latest on the president's visit to Canada plus a lot more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And before we get over to business news, we're going let you know that we're continuing our series this week on from fingerprints to phishing in this case. That's with a P. If you surf the net, it's another cause for concern. What is it? And how does it work? Daniel Sieberg is going to be explaining the dangers of phishing, P-H, during tomorrow's show.

Also, if you need more tech news today, all you got to use is your fingers. Type in cnn.com/tech, and find out how you can use the Internet to make free phone calls, for example. All about the powerful new computer chip that could make your computer run 10 times faster, did you know? That's 10, yes. Again, that's cnn.com/tech.

KAGAN: Faster? Free? We like all that.

SANCHEZ: With a P-H, phaster, and phree. KAGAN: And Phish.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

KAGAN: Hurricane season, boy, folks in Florida will be happy to hear this, won't they. I want to tell you it is finally over, but it has left a lasting impression.

SANCHEZ: Your weather, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Boy, I was down there when it happened, and it was rough for the folks in Florida.

KAGAN: And that would be the hurricanes.

SANCHEZ: The hurricanes. I mean, it was like, this is the state of Florida, and they went like this, and then like this, and then like this and then like this.

KAGAN: Having friends on the east and west coast of Florida, they would trade off -- this is bad for this one and this is bad for this one.

SANCHEZ: This is coming from your direction this time, or my direction.

KAGAN: Today they can put this one in the history books.

SANCHEZ: Isn't that good?

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: And that's going to do it for us. This one is in the record books for us.

SANCHEZ: I guess you could say that. So let's send things over to Wolf Blitzer now. It's a very, very busy day with the president in Canada. Who better to bring you that coverage than Wolf Blitzer.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired November 30, 2004 - 11:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take a look at what's happening "Now in the News." CNN planning live coverage next hour of an NAACP news conference. The organization's leader, Kweisi Mfume, is leaving. Nine years on that job. "The Baltimore Sun" says that Mfume wants to spend more time with his six sons. There's also speculation that he's eying a Maryland Senate seat.
The leaders of the 9/11 Commission on Capitol Hill today urging the House to compromise and pass a bill to overhaul the intelligence community. The legislation stalled when the GOP leadership pulled the bill earlier this month. Some on Congress claim the reforms would dilute military intelligence at the Pentagon. We'll be going live to Capitol Hill in just a moment.

President Bush is holding talks in Ottawa this hour with the Canadian prime minister, Paul Martin. The two leaders are trying to patch up differences caused by the Iraq war and trade issues. It's the president's first official visit to Canada after four years in office.

And the penalty phase gets started at the top of the hour in the Scott Peterson murder trial. Jurors can recommend life in prison or execution for the deaths of Laci Peterson and her unborn son. Keeping you informed, CNN is the most trusted name in news.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: He's a Laotian immigrant accused of killing six deer hunters in northern Wisconsin. He made his first official court appearance this morning. Chai Vang, you've probably heard of him by now. These are the pictures of him. He faces six counts of murder and two counts of attempted murder.

According to the criminal complaint, Vang says the hunters there, who came to chase him off the land, fired at him after he was caught trespassing. But two survivors of the shooting tell investigators that Vang fired first. The attorney for the shooting suspect has called the case more of a why done it than a who done it.

"Milwaukee Journal Sentinel" reporter John Diedrich has been covering this case and he's joining us now to talk about it. Where do we stand at this point, as far as this case is concerned?

JOHN DIEDRICH, "MILWAUKEE JOURNAL SENTINEL": Well, this morning, as you alluded to, the suspect, Chai Vang, made his initial court appearance. They had the court appearance in the basement of the jail up there in northwestern Wisconsin County. The reason for that was a fear of security, that he might be -- some sort of attempt or something on his life if he were transported over to court. At that hearing, he said that he understood the charges and that his next -- his preliminary hearing will be December 29th, at which time he's expected to enter a plea.

SANCHEZ: John, you know what I want you to explain to our viewers who are watching from all over the country and probably don't understand whatever relationship has developed in your part of the country. With this particular community, he is a Hmong, which are people that came from Laos who eventually came here after the Vietnam War. But what is the relationship between the people there in Wisconsin and parts of Minnesota and the Hmong community and what that bring or portend for this particular case?

DIEDRICH: Well, we've had a large number of Hmong immigrants to both Wisconsin and Minnesota, settling in various parts of each state. The folks who have come in have a strong tradition of hunting. There's an extremely high percentage of hunters among the Hmong population and, of course in Wisconsin as well, among people who have lived here a bit longer, they hunt as well. So this is one of the activities that the two communities interface. And sometimes with some tension arising. There's often problems with people hunting on private property. There's a lot of public land in northern Wisconsin, but there's private property that people guard closely.

SANCHEZ: Are the Hmong, though, looked down upon or perhaps maybe even more importantly, do they perceive that they're looked down upon by the people in the Midwest or some people in the Midwest?

DIEDRICH: Well, yes, there is that perception and there have been some racially charged incidents. And there have been some folks in the community -- the Hmong community who have been careful not to portray this as a defensible situation, but they do say there has been racism and there's been threats that have been called in after this incident. For instance, one community center got a call where somebody said that they would be hunting for Hmong as opposed to deer this final weekend of the deer hunting season.

SANCHEZ: Wow. Yes, that really does explain some of the stories that have been coming out there. It's interesting who he's hired. His attorneys, by the way, are the guy who represented Mark Chmura, the Green Bay Packer, as most people would know people would know it, and also the guy who killed Jeffrey Dahmer. So he's got some high profile attorneys backing him up in this thing.

John Diedrich. We thank you, sir, for joining us and sharing some insight with us on this.

DIEDRICH: My pleasure. Thank you, Rick.

SANCHEZ: All right -- Daryn.

KAGAN: We are keeping our eye on Capitol Hill. Will Congress pass the 9/11 reform bill or will it go on to the next Congress and let them have a chance? Ed Henry checking in from Capitol Hill. Right now, a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: 9/11 commissioners and families who lost loved ones on that day in 2000 are urging Congress to pass intelligence reform legislation. Some family members, though, are pushing for something else. Our congressional correspondent Ed Henry is live today on Capitol Hill.

Ed, hello.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

That's right, really a last-ditch lobbying effort on both sides either to pass it or stop this 9/11 intelligence reform bill. That's because time is of the essence. Congress coming back next week just for a couple of days. This is a last chance to pass this or any other legislation for the year. As a result, CNN has learned that the former 9/11 commission co-chairs, Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton, are planning to meet with Vice President Cheney later this afternoon in order to try to break this stalemate that the legislation has faced for weeks now.

And there also are a lot of families, as you mentioned, on both sides lobbying about this. There's one group of 9/11 families that had a press conference earlier this morning, saying that they think that the bill in its current form is good and that it should move forward. Here is Mary Fetchet, who lost her son on 9/11.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY FETCHET, FAMILIES OF 9/11: Today we have a broken intelligence community riddled by chaos. We hear continued, pointed threats from the terrorists. Yet a strategic plan to make our country safer is in limbo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: But a separate group of 9/11 families just held a press conference as well on Capitol Hill saying that they think the bill in its current form is not good enough and they would rather no reform than bad reform. They in particular are defending Republican Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner, who is trying to add immigration provisions to this legislation, try to tighten the borders. He wants to crack down on illegal immigration. He thinks that's contributing to terrorism. He wants stop it.

Here is another 9/11 family member, Joan Molinaro.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOAN MOLINARO, MOTHER OF 9/11 VICTIM: This is the price I am not willing to pay because you continue to fail in your duties. No bill should pass the Senate, the House, anywhere, unless it contains immigration reform, you secure our borders, you keep my girls alive. You allowed the murder of my son. I will not allow you to kill my daughters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: Now, another point of contention that we've all heard about is the fact that House Armed Services Chairman Duncan Hunter believes that the way the bill is currently written it would make it more difficult for intelligence to get down to the field -- to military troops in the field. He's concerned about that because of the creation of a new director of national intelligence.

But White House spokesman Scott McClennan said yesterday President Bush supports this legislation in its current form. He obviously does not want to hurt troops in the field. He's on board. And Scott McClennan said that later this week, President Bush will be sending a letter to Capitol Hill reiterating his support to congressional leaders -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Well, and that leads to my Ed Henry question of this hour, and that has to do with the politicals of all of this, who are these congressmen, Hunter and Sensenbrenner, to go up against a very powerful president?

HENRY: Well, when you talk to people close to Congressman Sensenbrenner and Congressman Hunter, they say that they are just the two front people, if you will. In fact, there are dozens and dozens of Republicans in the House Republican Conference who do not support the bill as it's currently written.

But Hunter and Sensenbrenner are the ones who have had the guts and the courage to go public and say that they do not think this reform is good enough, but that privately, there are dozens of Republicans who do not like this bill. They have not come forward publicly, but they are saying that Sensenbrenner and Hunter are the ones who are taking the political heat, but there are a lot more people who do not like this deal and that's why they're blocking it -- Daryn.

Ed Henry on Capitol Hill. Ed, thank you.

HENRY: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Well, you've seen it at the movies, James Bond, for example, identifying himself by the iris of his eye, a retinal scanner. Or fake fingerprints featured in "Mission Impossible." Well, now biometric technologies are actually finding their way into some of the most unlikely of places. It may affect you or your life, for example, a grocery store.

CNN technology correspondent Dan Sieberg reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I might forget my credit card, but I'm not forgetting my finger.

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: When Michelle Debose (ph) shops for groceries at her Piggly Wiggly in South Carolina, a scan of her index finger takes the place of writing a check or swiping a credit card. Shoppers can enroll in the pay by touch biometrics system by providing a driver's license and their checking or credit card information.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's easy. It's quick. And you're not fumbling for your debit card and your checkbook to write it down.

SIEBERG (on camera): The Pig, as it's known here in the South, is testing the technology in four different stores before it rolls it out nationwide. Like any new technology, there's always a learning curve. Think back to ATM machines or buying something online. And so they want to make sure that they can balance convenience with security and privacy. I've already registered, so I can just go ahead and use my finger. Thank you.

(voice-over): And fingers aren't the only body parts with characteristics that can be used for security. There are at least half a dozen others that act as your personal password.

(on camera): I am Daniel Sieberg. I promise you I am who I say I am.

(voice-over): At the University of West Virginia's Center for Identification Technology Research, other studies include voice recognition.

MATTHEW MONACO, UNIVERSITY OF WEST VIRGINIA: There's actually a frequency or pitch of your voice. This is an iris scan. This is actually the most accuser biometric system in use today. This essentially is reading your palm.

SIEBERG (on camera): Not a fortune teller?

MONACO: No. It's actually...

SIEBERG: OK.

MONACO: I'm trying to see if you are actually who you say you are.

What it's measuring here is actually 14 different measurements.

SIEBERG (voice-over): Some other measures include hand geometry and facial geometry. Researchers here say a biometric can be more secure than a password or an I.D. card.

PROF. ARUN ROSS, UNIVERSITY OF WEST VIRGINIA: If I give my I.D. card to someone or someone stole it, then they would probably be able to misuse it. However, in biometrics, the person has to be at the point of transaction and he has to offer his biometric trait at that point.

SIEBERG: Before September 11, the focus of biometrics was mainly on making life a little easier for consumers while still helping to prevent identity theft. That focus changed dramatically after the terrorist attacks and the priority shifted to national security.

Legal experts are working directly with scientists on new security measures based on these physical characteristics.

PROF. LISA NELSON, UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH: People are very apprehensive about biometric technology and that fear means that they're going to be less willing to accept it as part of their daily routine. So the more that they -- the less they understand about it, the more fearful they are, which means, I think, that drive, the need for legislation, the need to build in privacy protections.

SIEBERG: Secure biometrics systems extract details from a fingerprint, iris scan or other body part, then get rid of that raw data so it can't be stolen.

PROF. LARRY HORNAK, UNIVERSITY OF WEST VIRGINIA: And one of the basic principles here is to make sure that you design the system and the algorithms such that you can't go backwards.

SIEBERG: Hollywood helps fuel one bizarre but common myth about biometrics. Might someone chop off my finger to get access to all my stuff? After all, it worked for Arnold Schwarzenegger in "The Sixth Day."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE SIXTH DAY")

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: System accessed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIEBERG: Well, scientists say a new sensor, developed in 2003, will give a dismembered digit a definite thumbs down. Older sensors could not.

HORNAK: We've looked at the perspiration pattern that comes from the pores that you can then pick out living individuals relative to spoof or cadavers.

SIEBERG: But fingerprints can be faked -- Play Dough, melted Gummi Bears and a handful of other spoofing tools are used to create then fix vulnerabilities. A stolen fingerprint on Play Dough is a common fraud attempt.

HORNAK: With one of these, you really have only one try and then you've already deformed the spoof enough that it's not going to image very well.

SIEBERG: While biometric tools can work well for company security and retail sites, some privacy watchdogs warn that the technology is being peddled as a silver bullet for enormous tasks like securing airports and builders.

LEE TIEN, ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION: Our feeling is that it's just not ready for prime time right now. You can change a password. You can re-key locks. But, you know, your fingers, you know, your iris, your voice, they're you. So when someone compromises the security of that kind of biometric, you're stuck.

SIEBERG: So before getting stuck, biometric users must decide how high to set the bar to determine what's a match and what's not.

ROSS: The question is what is the cost of making an error? What is the cost of falsely accepting an imposter? If I'm falsely rejected, maybe I'm going to be upset for a couple of seconds, but I could place my finger again. But if it's a false accept, you just let the wrong person into the nuclear facility.

SIEBERG: Some systems combine two different traits, say, a fingerprint and an iris scan, that could dramatically improve security.

So as this technology grows, the next time you go to the grocery store, the cashier's question might not be paper or plastic, but rather finger or eye?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIEBERG: And one quick sidebar in this technology is actually in crime-fighting, the state of Illinois has been using biometrics to help curve fraud and identity theft since 1998. The secretary of state's office has used face geometry when they measure those points on your face when residents have their pictures taken for their drivers license. And their database, which is actually one of the biggest in the world with 16 million images, has been used to track down criminals who have used more than a dozen fake identities to try and commit crimes -- Daryn and Rick.

SANCHEZ: All right. Daniel Sieberg, all over that story. We thank you so much for bringing it to us.

SIEBERG: You bet.

SANCHEZ: We're going to have a whole lot more coming up in just a little bit.

KAGAN: That we will, the latest on the president's visit to Canada plus a lot more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And before we get over to business news, we're going let you know that we're continuing our series this week on from fingerprints to phishing in this case. That's with a P. If you surf the net, it's another cause for concern. What is it? And how does it work? Daniel Sieberg is going to be explaining the dangers of phishing, P-H, during tomorrow's show.

Also, if you need more tech news today, all you got to use is your fingers. Type in cnn.com/tech, and find out how you can use the Internet to make free phone calls, for example. All about the powerful new computer chip that could make your computer run 10 times faster, did you know? That's 10, yes. Again, that's cnn.com/tech.

KAGAN: Faster? Free? We like all that.

SANCHEZ: With a P-H, phaster, and phree. KAGAN: And Phish.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

KAGAN: Hurricane season, boy, folks in Florida will be happy to hear this, won't they. I want to tell you it is finally over, but it has left a lasting impression.

SANCHEZ: Your weather, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Boy, I was down there when it happened, and it was rough for the folks in Florida.

KAGAN: And that would be the hurricanes.

SANCHEZ: The hurricanes. I mean, it was like, this is the state of Florida, and they went like this, and then like this, and then like this and then like this.

KAGAN: Having friends on the east and west coast of Florida, they would trade off -- this is bad for this one and this is bad for this one.

SANCHEZ: This is coming from your direction this time, or my direction.

KAGAN: Today they can put this one in the history books.

SANCHEZ: Isn't that good?

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: And that's going to do it for us. This one is in the record books for us.

SANCHEZ: I guess you could say that. So let's send things over to Wolf Blitzer now. It's a very, very busy day with the president in Canada. Who better to bring you that coverage than Wolf Blitzer.

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