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Pentagon Officials Answer Senate Questions on Iraq; General 'Counseled' for Remarks About Enjoying Killing; Conservative Lawyer Pleased with State of Union

Aired February 03, 2005 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CO-HOST: We're coming up -- actually, we are there at the half hour.
RICK SANCHEZ, CO-HOST: Right at the midpoint, as they say.

KAGAN: Right there. Good morning once again, I'm Daryn Kagan.

SANCHEZ: And I'm Rick Sanchez. And here's what's happening right now in the news.

Democrats are weighing in on President Bush's plans to overhaul the 70-year-old Social Security system. Democratic leaders Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid call his plan for private investments accounts a high stakes gamble. Mr. Bush wants to allow people born in 1950 and after to put up to four percent of their Social Security taxes into stocks and bonds.

In Iraq, gunmen flayed (ph) this car as they carried employees of an S.U. -- of United States contractors. Four Iraqis were killed and two wounded. All work for Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown and Root.

Also, a big step taken today in Mideast security. Israel has agreed to stop targeted killings of suspected militants. Instead, Palestinian security officials are going to track down those suspects, they say. Israel also plans to release hundreds of Palestinian prisoners and ease some of the West Bank checkpoint restrictions. Officials warn the moves can be reversed.

And investigators hope to talk today to the pilot and the co- pilot of the jet that slammed into a New Jersey warehouse. The plane never got off the ground before skidding off the runway, injuring more than 20 people.

Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

KAGAN: The Iraqi election has not halted the ongoing fight to secure Iraq. Two U.S. Marines are among the latest casualties. The military says both were killed during security operations in western Iraq.

In northern Iraq, 12 Iraqi army recruits were killed in an ambush near the village of Zab. A military official says the recruits were unarmed when their bus was attacked. Elsewhere, four Iraqi workers with a subsidiary of Halliburton were shot and killed in the city of Baqubah. And in Baghdad, police say a member of the new Baghdad city council was shot to death this morning outside his home.

The topic is Iraq on Capitol Hill. The Senate Armed services Committee is taking a look at that. Let's check in with our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, for more -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Daryn.

As you say, this is the first appearance by top Pentagon and military officials before the Senate Armed Services Committee this morning, on Capitol Hill, their first appearance, of course, since the election.

We see Senator Ted Kennedy now very vigorously questioning some of the Pentagon and military witnesses.

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz has been talking for some time now this morning about the post-election situation, about the way ahead, that the U.S. military will place several thousand personnel with Iraqi military units as military advisory training teams, to beef up those Iraqi security forces.

But Secretary Wolfowitz also making it very clear he does not believe that the fighting is over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: The next few months will be particularly challenging, because while this election will produce a national assembly, that body will still face a formidable challenge to putting together a government. And it must do so in the face of a continuing war against a brutal enemy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: One of those brutal enemies, if you will, Abu Musab al- Zarqawi. The Iraqi interior minister on television this morning, talking about the fact that the Iraqis, at least, believe that in recent days, they have come very close to catching him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FALAH AL-NAKIB, IRAQI MINISTER OF INTERIOR: I said we missed him by one hour maybe, something like that. You know, he's not staying in one place. He's moving from one area to another. So we will get him. Very soon, hopefully.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: U.S. officials saying that they don't have him yet. They don't know when they will get him. But they also are hopeful, Daryn, because in recent days a number of Zarqawi's close associates have been captured and are in custody and presumably giving up some information about him -- Daryn.

PHILLIPS: ... comments here from a U.S. Marine commander, making comments that some people are finding hard to believe that he said in public. Tell us more about that.

STARR: This is yet another story here, a very busy Pentagon morning, Daryn. Lieutenant General James Mattis, who commanded the 1st Marine Division in Iraq, spoke yesterday in San Diego, California and made some remarks that have caused a great deal of attention to say the least.

He spoke about combat, about killing. And that he actually talked about is he said, quote, "It's a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot."

He went on and talked about how Marines feel about the operation in Afghanistan. He said, "It's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them," referring to the enemy forces the U.S. has in Afghanistan.

We're going to play that audio for you. It's a little tough to hear, but listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. JAMES MATTIS, 1ST MARINE DIVISION: Actually, it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up front. Yes, I like brawling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Earlier this morning, the Pentagon couldn't quite decide what it thought about all of this, but now the commandant of the Marine Corps, General Mike Hagee, has put out a public statement. And he says he has taken the step of counseling General Mattis. "I have counseled him concerning his remarks and he agrees he should have chosen his words more carefully."

It is a remarkable circumstance, to say the least, that a three- star general with a field combat command is counseled, if you will, by the commandant of the Marine Corps -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Yes, and I don't usually don't hear the word -- we don't usually hear the word "counsel." Could there be further ramifications for these comments?

STARR: Well, we don't have any reason to believe so at this time. The Marines taking great pains to tell the news media on the side that General Mattis is not reprimanded.

But underlying all of this, to decipher what's really going on, sources tell us there is concern about the question of leadership. If a three-star general makes these types of remarks, it does set a certain example for the younger Marines, the younger troops in the field. And this may have been what drove General Hagee's concerns -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you.

SANCHEZ: President Bush rallied his base at the 53rd annual National Prayer Breakfast this morning at the Washington Hilton. He told an audience that included Christian evangelicals that prayer is the great equalizer in American life. He called on Americans to embrace compassion and hear the cry of the poor and the less fortunate.

Evangelicals are no doubt surging as a political force in American politics. These social conservatives are driven by moral issues like gay marriage, and abortion, and school prayer and pornography. Their turnout in November is widely credited with giving President Bush a new four-year term, or certainly having played a major role in it.

Values voters are such a strong constituency in 21st Century America, that "TIME" magazine names the 25 most influential evangelicals in this particular cover.

Among them, lawyer Jay Sekulow, whose Washington-based American Center for Law and Justice is conservative counterpoint to the liberal ACLU, certainly something often considered liberal. "TIME" calls him, in fact, "the Almighty's attorney."

Mr. Sekulow, it certainly is a pleasure to have you here, sir.

JAY SEKULOW, ATTORNEY: Thank you very much.

SANCHEZ: Are those...

SEKULOW: Not that God needs a lawyer, but...

SANCHEZ: You're on retainer, right?

SEKULOW: Sure.

SANCHEZ: You're on retainer. Did those voters that we just spoke of get what they wanted to hear last night when they heard the president's State of the Union speech?

SEKULOW: You know, Rick, I think they really did. The president talked about the importance of the judicial nomination process and the need for the up and down vote on the judges. That was -- that's a huge issue with the American people, social conservatives in particular. So that was big.

Another issue, of course, that you can't ignore is the life issue. And the president made reference to that in the speech, and then the issue of marriage and what is defined as marriage in the United States.

So I think, really, the president has been consistent since he's been in office on all of these points. And again, reiterated them yesterday at the State of the Union. And I think that all of us that share those convictions are very pleased with what he's done and what he's delivered so far. SANCHEZ: Is that all you think values voters want to hear, the words? Or are they expecting an action to follow it up?

SEKULOW: No, definitely there's -- action has to be associated with the statements. And interestingly...

SANCHEZ: Are you -- let me just stop you there if I could for just a moment. Are you confident that there will be action to follow it up? And what are the ramifications if there isn't?

SEKULOW: Well, No. 1, I think the actions will be there, because I just look at history. I'm a lawyer. I deal with evidence. And you just look at the president and what his team has delivered over the last four years. And you say, look, if the kind of judges he's nominating for the court of appeals become the kind of judges he's nominating for the Supreme Court of the United States, those that share my convictions are going to be very happy.

You know, there's been some discussion about the marriage issue and the marriage amendment.

SANCHEZ: Yes, that's a good question. Do you think he's going to go to Congress and say to them, "Look, I want you guys to back me up on this and pass this constitutional amendment to ensure marriage between a man and a woman"?

SEKULOW: I think -- I think he's going to go back to Congress. But he's also being politically -- the reality of the situation is the votes right now in the Senate don't appear to be there.

And that's in part because so far, the courts have upheld what's called the Defense of Marriage Act so that states aren't being compelled to recognize what happened in Massachusetts.

But that could change at a moment's notice. And he's concerned about that.

So I believe the president is going to do exactly what he said, and that is he's going to go to Congress again, ask for the vote. And from our side, we want him to continue to work on those issues. And of course, on the life issue, this president, I think, of all the presidents we've had that have talked about the issue of life, he's been the most supportive both in action and deed.

SANCHEZ: Are values voters all Republicans?

SEKULOW: No, I don't think so. And you look at a cross-section of American people, there are people that have values that are not Republicans. They're independents; they're Democrats.

So no, I think there's -- some of these issues are transcending above the political process. And I think you saw some of that in the last election.

And I don't think it's fair to tag and say only Democrats or only Republicans have values. American people have values. And it's how those values are shaped and how the public policy comes out of those values which is so important.

SANCHEZ: Jay Sekulow, it's a pleasure to talk to you, sir. We certainly appreciate it.

SEKULOW: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

SANCHEZ: All right. Daryn, over to you.

KAGAN: We're going to talk some more on Social Security straight ahead. Our question for you: is the issue of Social Security the same for every American? Does the color of your skin mean more or less money for recipients?

We'll get to that right after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today more than 45 million Americans receive Social Security benefits and millions more are nearing retirement. And for them, the system is sound and fiscally strong.

I have a message for every American who is 55 or older. Do not let anyone mislead you. For you, the Social Security system will not change in any way.

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NE), MINORITY LEADER: There's a lot we can do to improve America's retirement security. But it's wrong to replace the guaranteed benefit that Americans have earned with a guaranteed benefit cut of up to 40 percent. Make no mistake, that's exactly what President Bush is proposing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: As you can see from those sound bites coming out of the commercial break, partisan battle lines are already forming over any possible changes in Social Security, yet nearly everyone can agree that some aspects of the entitlement need fixing. One area ripe for closer scrutiny is racial disparity and benefits.

Our Candy Crowley has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA HAILE, WIDOW: Are you going to walk over, or are you going to wait?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Barbara Haile never gave much thought to her husband's Social Security benefits until he died.

HAILE: I remember someone said to me you can go, Social Security will give you some money to bury him. So I just called them, and they said $250. And I laughed. I'm like, what am I going to do with $250? It takes at least $6,000 to bury him.

CROWLEY: She should take the $250. It's all she'll see of the money her husband put into Social Security. Michael Haile died of bone cancer in 1997. He was 50, old enough to put more than 30 years of payments into Social Security, too young to have taken any out.

ROBERT WOODSON, CENTER FOR NEIGHBORHOOD ENTERPRISE: Black men 40 years old, stand a 77 percent more of a chance of dying before he reaches retirement age than do white men. If you look at the numbers, under the existing Social Security system, black families transfer $10,000 from black families to white women who live longer.

CROWLEY: It is a fact of death, that life expectancy for blacks is shorter than for whites. A turn of the actuarial table the president is using to gather support for his plans to fundamentally change Social Security.

BUSH: African-American males die sooner than other males do, which means the system is inherently unfair to a certain group of people. And that needs to be fixed.

CROWLEY: The case goes like this. Had Michael been allowed to invest for himself just a portion of the money he's put into Social Security for 30 years, his wife would have inherited that money, no matter how long or short his life.

HAILE: I think it's good to know that you have something that you have access to right away. I think it's good to give people an option rather than just having it one way and that's the way you have to live with it.

CROWLEY: At the AARP, Marie Smith is quick to note that Social Security is a lot more than a retirement fund.

MARIE SMITH, AARP PRESIDENT: If you're thinking of the African- American population as a whole, African-Americans' children receive more benefits in relationship to their percentages in the population than any other group. And that would be survivors' benefits or dependent benefits, which could be from retirement or disability benefits.

CROWLEY: AARP says it's all about people investing for retirement, just not with the money they currently put into Social Security.

The Haile children were too old for survivor benefits when he died. Barbara will eventually retire, having worked longer than her husband. So she will take her own Social Security over his.

The home she bought with Michael was too much for her salary alone, so Barbara moved. She's doing fine, but sometimes when she's dealing with the young cousins she's raising or when she's with her mother, Barbara thinks about the things she could have done, had Michael been able to save something for himself.

HAILE: She's not able to afford all of her medicine. And I'd like to be able to do that for her. I mean, I can do it now, but it stretches me. I could use some money -- I could have used some money for her.

And even now, since I have him, I would really rather he be in a private school rather than public school. So I could have afforded to do that.

CROWLEY: Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: President Bush apparently made a convincing case for his Social Security reforms, at least according to those who watched last night's debate -- or pardon me, State of the Union address.

According to a Gallup poll, 74 percent of those who watched the speech think that the president's policy on Social Security is headed in the right direction. However, those same people say Social Security reform is not the most important issue. It comes in third, in fact, behind Iraq and terrorism. But ahead of the economy, health care and tax reform, as well.

KAGAN: We're going to take a quick look at weather, also a business update after the break.

SANCHEZ: And up, up and away. We're going to tell you why this rocket liftoff is memorable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: I can tell you this...

SANCHEZ: Tell me, tell me. I'd like to hear.

KAGAN: You are having a better day than the markets.

SANCHEZ: Is that right?

KAGAN: That is true.

Susan Lisovicz can substantiate my claim.

(STOCK REPORT)

KAGAN: Thank you so much.

An early morning launch at Cape Canaveral marks the end of an era. The Atlas III rocket is carrying a U.S. military spy satellite into space. There it goes. It's the sixth and final mission for the Atlas III. It's been replaced by a larger and more powerful version.

The liftoff was also the last for the launch complex. Thirty-six have used for launches into space since 1962.

SANCHEZ: There you go. Fun place to visit, too. Another great place to take the kids. KAGAN: In Florida. Yes, you're going to have your long list of recommendations.

SANCHEZ: This segment. I got e-mails on that one yesterday. Was it Yellow River?

Orelon Sidney standing by now to bring us an update on what's going on in the weather. Another person that needs to know more about places to go.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: Orelon, thank you.

SANCHEZ: Let's follow up for you now. In fact, we have some pictures we can show you of Teterboro Airport there in New Jersey, that's that plane crash that we told you about.

Remember last time we told you that the first thing that happens after a crash is the NTSB sends out something called a go team? These are essentially investigators that go there now and, like, detectives, will try and figure out what caused this crash.

They're there. That's them, and you see them now going over some of that debris.

By the way, we are expecting some kind of news conference later on.

KAGAN: Yes, I mean, it was remarkable. Eleven people on board, all pretty much walked away. Nobody was killed. That's incredible. That the plane survived so much in tact is incredible. Also, there were people driving along highway 46 in New Jersey yesterday that were part of this accident.

SANCHEZ: Two of them.

KAGAN: They survived. At least one of them is going to talk about what that was like to be on their way and involved in a plane crash.

SANCHEZ: Yes. And there was also somebody inside that warehouse who was hurt as well, but I understand he's doing all right now.

I'm Rick Sanchez.

KAGAN: And I'm Daryn Kagan. Wolf Blitzer will be with you after this break at the top of the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired February 3, 2005 - 11:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CO-HOST: We're coming up -- actually, we are there at the half hour.
RICK SANCHEZ, CO-HOST: Right at the midpoint, as they say.

KAGAN: Right there. Good morning once again, I'm Daryn Kagan.

SANCHEZ: And I'm Rick Sanchez. And here's what's happening right now in the news.

Democrats are weighing in on President Bush's plans to overhaul the 70-year-old Social Security system. Democratic leaders Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid call his plan for private investments accounts a high stakes gamble. Mr. Bush wants to allow people born in 1950 and after to put up to four percent of their Social Security taxes into stocks and bonds.

In Iraq, gunmen flayed (ph) this car as they carried employees of an S.U. -- of United States contractors. Four Iraqis were killed and two wounded. All work for Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown and Root.

Also, a big step taken today in Mideast security. Israel has agreed to stop targeted killings of suspected militants. Instead, Palestinian security officials are going to track down those suspects, they say. Israel also plans to release hundreds of Palestinian prisoners and ease some of the West Bank checkpoint restrictions. Officials warn the moves can be reversed.

And investigators hope to talk today to the pilot and the co- pilot of the jet that slammed into a New Jersey warehouse. The plane never got off the ground before skidding off the runway, injuring more than 20 people.

Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

KAGAN: The Iraqi election has not halted the ongoing fight to secure Iraq. Two U.S. Marines are among the latest casualties. The military says both were killed during security operations in western Iraq.

In northern Iraq, 12 Iraqi army recruits were killed in an ambush near the village of Zab. A military official says the recruits were unarmed when their bus was attacked. Elsewhere, four Iraqi workers with a subsidiary of Halliburton were shot and killed in the city of Baqubah. And in Baghdad, police say a member of the new Baghdad city council was shot to death this morning outside his home.

The topic is Iraq on Capitol Hill. The Senate Armed services Committee is taking a look at that. Let's check in with our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, for more -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Daryn.

As you say, this is the first appearance by top Pentagon and military officials before the Senate Armed Services Committee this morning, on Capitol Hill, their first appearance, of course, since the election.

We see Senator Ted Kennedy now very vigorously questioning some of the Pentagon and military witnesses.

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz has been talking for some time now this morning about the post-election situation, about the way ahead, that the U.S. military will place several thousand personnel with Iraqi military units as military advisory training teams, to beef up those Iraqi security forces.

But Secretary Wolfowitz also making it very clear he does not believe that the fighting is over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: The next few months will be particularly challenging, because while this election will produce a national assembly, that body will still face a formidable challenge to putting together a government. And it must do so in the face of a continuing war against a brutal enemy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: One of those brutal enemies, if you will, Abu Musab al- Zarqawi. The Iraqi interior minister on television this morning, talking about the fact that the Iraqis, at least, believe that in recent days, they have come very close to catching him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FALAH AL-NAKIB, IRAQI MINISTER OF INTERIOR: I said we missed him by one hour maybe, something like that. You know, he's not staying in one place. He's moving from one area to another. So we will get him. Very soon, hopefully.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: U.S. officials saying that they don't have him yet. They don't know when they will get him. But they also are hopeful, Daryn, because in recent days a number of Zarqawi's close associates have been captured and are in custody and presumably giving up some information about him -- Daryn.

PHILLIPS: ... comments here from a U.S. Marine commander, making comments that some people are finding hard to believe that he said in public. Tell us more about that.

STARR: This is yet another story here, a very busy Pentagon morning, Daryn. Lieutenant General James Mattis, who commanded the 1st Marine Division in Iraq, spoke yesterday in San Diego, California and made some remarks that have caused a great deal of attention to say the least.

He spoke about combat, about killing. And that he actually talked about is he said, quote, "It's a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot."

He went on and talked about how Marines feel about the operation in Afghanistan. He said, "It's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them," referring to the enemy forces the U.S. has in Afghanistan.

We're going to play that audio for you. It's a little tough to hear, but listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. JAMES MATTIS, 1ST MARINE DIVISION: Actually, it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up front. Yes, I like brawling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Earlier this morning, the Pentagon couldn't quite decide what it thought about all of this, but now the commandant of the Marine Corps, General Mike Hagee, has put out a public statement. And he says he has taken the step of counseling General Mattis. "I have counseled him concerning his remarks and he agrees he should have chosen his words more carefully."

It is a remarkable circumstance, to say the least, that a three- star general with a field combat command is counseled, if you will, by the commandant of the Marine Corps -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Yes, and I don't usually don't hear the word -- we don't usually hear the word "counsel." Could there be further ramifications for these comments?

STARR: Well, we don't have any reason to believe so at this time. The Marines taking great pains to tell the news media on the side that General Mattis is not reprimanded.

But underlying all of this, to decipher what's really going on, sources tell us there is concern about the question of leadership. If a three-star general makes these types of remarks, it does set a certain example for the younger Marines, the younger troops in the field. And this may have been what drove General Hagee's concerns -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you.

SANCHEZ: President Bush rallied his base at the 53rd annual National Prayer Breakfast this morning at the Washington Hilton. He told an audience that included Christian evangelicals that prayer is the great equalizer in American life. He called on Americans to embrace compassion and hear the cry of the poor and the less fortunate.

Evangelicals are no doubt surging as a political force in American politics. These social conservatives are driven by moral issues like gay marriage, and abortion, and school prayer and pornography. Their turnout in November is widely credited with giving President Bush a new four-year term, or certainly having played a major role in it.

Values voters are such a strong constituency in 21st Century America, that "TIME" magazine names the 25 most influential evangelicals in this particular cover.

Among them, lawyer Jay Sekulow, whose Washington-based American Center for Law and Justice is conservative counterpoint to the liberal ACLU, certainly something often considered liberal. "TIME" calls him, in fact, "the Almighty's attorney."

Mr. Sekulow, it certainly is a pleasure to have you here, sir.

JAY SEKULOW, ATTORNEY: Thank you very much.

SANCHEZ: Are those...

SEKULOW: Not that God needs a lawyer, but...

SANCHEZ: You're on retainer, right?

SEKULOW: Sure.

SANCHEZ: You're on retainer. Did those voters that we just spoke of get what they wanted to hear last night when they heard the president's State of the Union speech?

SEKULOW: You know, Rick, I think they really did. The president talked about the importance of the judicial nomination process and the need for the up and down vote on the judges. That was -- that's a huge issue with the American people, social conservatives in particular. So that was big.

Another issue, of course, that you can't ignore is the life issue. And the president made reference to that in the speech, and then the issue of marriage and what is defined as marriage in the United States.

So I think, really, the president has been consistent since he's been in office on all of these points. And again, reiterated them yesterday at the State of the Union. And I think that all of us that share those convictions are very pleased with what he's done and what he's delivered so far. SANCHEZ: Is that all you think values voters want to hear, the words? Or are they expecting an action to follow it up?

SEKULOW: No, definitely there's -- action has to be associated with the statements. And interestingly...

SANCHEZ: Are you -- let me just stop you there if I could for just a moment. Are you confident that there will be action to follow it up? And what are the ramifications if there isn't?

SEKULOW: Well, No. 1, I think the actions will be there, because I just look at history. I'm a lawyer. I deal with evidence. And you just look at the president and what his team has delivered over the last four years. And you say, look, if the kind of judges he's nominating for the court of appeals become the kind of judges he's nominating for the Supreme Court of the United States, those that share my convictions are going to be very happy.

You know, there's been some discussion about the marriage issue and the marriage amendment.

SANCHEZ: Yes, that's a good question. Do you think he's going to go to Congress and say to them, "Look, I want you guys to back me up on this and pass this constitutional amendment to ensure marriage between a man and a woman"?

SEKULOW: I think -- I think he's going to go back to Congress. But he's also being politically -- the reality of the situation is the votes right now in the Senate don't appear to be there.

And that's in part because so far, the courts have upheld what's called the Defense of Marriage Act so that states aren't being compelled to recognize what happened in Massachusetts.

But that could change at a moment's notice. And he's concerned about that.

So I believe the president is going to do exactly what he said, and that is he's going to go to Congress again, ask for the vote. And from our side, we want him to continue to work on those issues. And of course, on the life issue, this president, I think, of all the presidents we've had that have talked about the issue of life, he's been the most supportive both in action and deed.

SANCHEZ: Are values voters all Republicans?

SEKULOW: No, I don't think so. And you look at a cross-section of American people, there are people that have values that are not Republicans. They're independents; they're Democrats.

So no, I think there's -- some of these issues are transcending above the political process. And I think you saw some of that in the last election.

And I don't think it's fair to tag and say only Democrats or only Republicans have values. American people have values. And it's how those values are shaped and how the public policy comes out of those values which is so important.

SANCHEZ: Jay Sekulow, it's a pleasure to talk to you, sir. We certainly appreciate it.

SEKULOW: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

SANCHEZ: All right. Daryn, over to you.

KAGAN: We're going to talk some more on Social Security straight ahead. Our question for you: is the issue of Social Security the same for every American? Does the color of your skin mean more or less money for recipients?

We'll get to that right after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today more than 45 million Americans receive Social Security benefits and millions more are nearing retirement. And for them, the system is sound and fiscally strong.

I have a message for every American who is 55 or older. Do not let anyone mislead you. For you, the Social Security system will not change in any way.

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NE), MINORITY LEADER: There's a lot we can do to improve America's retirement security. But it's wrong to replace the guaranteed benefit that Americans have earned with a guaranteed benefit cut of up to 40 percent. Make no mistake, that's exactly what President Bush is proposing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: As you can see from those sound bites coming out of the commercial break, partisan battle lines are already forming over any possible changes in Social Security, yet nearly everyone can agree that some aspects of the entitlement need fixing. One area ripe for closer scrutiny is racial disparity and benefits.

Our Candy Crowley has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA HAILE, WIDOW: Are you going to walk over, or are you going to wait?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Barbara Haile never gave much thought to her husband's Social Security benefits until he died.

HAILE: I remember someone said to me you can go, Social Security will give you some money to bury him. So I just called them, and they said $250. And I laughed. I'm like, what am I going to do with $250? It takes at least $6,000 to bury him.

CROWLEY: She should take the $250. It's all she'll see of the money her husband put into Social Security. Michael Haile died of bone cancer in 1997. He was 50, old enough to put more than 30 years of payments into Social Security, too young to have taken any out.

ROBERT WOODSON, CENTER FOR NEIGHBORHOOD ENTERPRISE: Black men 40 years old, stand a 77 percent more of a chance of dying before he reaches retirement age than do white men. If you look at the numbers, under the existing Social Security system, black families transfer $10,000 from black families to white women who live longer.

CROWLEY: It is a fact of death, that life expectancy for blacks is shorter than for whites. A turn of the actuarial table the president is using to gather support for his plans to fundamentally change Social Security.

BUSH: African-American males die sooner than other males do, which means the system is inherently unfair to a certain group of people. And that needs to be fixed.

CROWLEY: The case goes like this. Had Michael been allowed to invest for himself just a portion of the money he's put into Social Security for 30 years, his wife would have inherited that money, no matter how long or short his life.

HAILE: I think it's good to know that you have something that you have access to right away. I think it's good to give people an option rather than just having it one way and that's the way you have to live with it.

CROWLEY: At the AARP, Marie Smith is quick to note that Social Security is a lot more than a retirement fund.

MARIE SMITH, AARP PRESIDENT: If you're thinking of the African- American population as a whole, African-Americans' children receive more benefits in relationship to their percentages in the population than any other group. And that would be survivors' benefits or dependent benefits, which could be from retirement or disability benefits.

CROWLEY: AARP says it's all about people investing for retirement, just not with the money they currently put into Social Security.

The Haile children were too old for survivor benefits when he died. Barbara will eventually retire, having worked longer than her husband. So she will take her own Social Security over his.

The home she bought with Michael was too much for her salary alone, so Barbara moved. She's doing fine, but sometimes when she's dealing with the young cousins she's raising or when she's with her mother, Barbara thinks about the things she could have done, had Michael been able to save something for himself.

HAILE: She's not able to afford all of her medicine. And I'd like to be able to do that for her. I mean, I can do it now, but it stretches me. I could use some money -- I could have used some money for her.

And even now, since I have him, I would really rather he be in a private school rather than public school. So I could have afforded to do that.

CROWLEY: Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: President Bush apparently made a convincing case for his Social Security reforms, at least according to those who watched last night's debate -- or pardon me, State of the Union address.

According to a Gallup poll, 74 percent of those who watched the speech think that the president's policy on Social Security is headed in the right direction. However, those same people say Social Security reform is not the most important issue. It comes in third, in fact, behind Iraq and terrorism. But ahead of the economy, health care and tax reform, as well.

KAGAN: We're going to take a quick look at weather, also a business update after the break.

SANCHEZ: And up, up and away. We're going to tell you why this rocket liftoff is memorable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: I can tell you this...

SANCHEZ: Tell me, tell me. I'd like to hear.

KAGAN: You are having a better day than the markets.

SANCHEZ: Is that right?

KAGAN: That is true.

Susan Lisovicz can substantiate my claim.

(STOCK REPORT)

KAGAN: Thank you so much.

An early morning launch at Cape Canaveral marks the end of an era. The Atlas III rocket is carrying a U.S. military spy satellite into space. There it goes. It's the sixth and final mission for the Atlas III. It's been replaced by a larger and more powerful version.

The liftoff was also the last for the launch complex. Thirty-six have used for launches into space since 1962.

SANCHEZ: There you go. Fun place to visit, too. Another great place to take the kids. KAGAN: In Florida. Yes, you're going to have your long list of recommendations.

SANCHEZ: This segment. I got e-mails on that one yesterday. Was it Yellow River?

Orelon Sidney standing by now to bring us an update on what's going on in the weather. Another person that needs to know more about places to go.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: Orelon, thank you.

SANCHEZ: Let's follow up for you now. In fact, we have some pictures we can show you of Teterboro Airport there in New Jersey, that's that plane crash that we told you about.

Remember last time we told you that the first thing that happens after a crash is the NTSB sends out something called a go team? These are essentially investigators that go there now and, like, detectives, will try and figure out what caused this crash.

They're there. That's them, and you see them now going over some of that debris.

By the way, we are expecting some kind of news conference later on.

KAGAN: Yes, I mean, it was remarkable. Eleven people on board, all pretty much walked away. Nobody was killed. That's incredible. That the plane survived so much in tact is incredible. Also, there were people driving along highway 46 in New Jersey yesterday that were part of this accident.

SANCHEZ: Two of them.

KAGAN: They survived. At least one of them is going to talk about what that was like to be on their way and involved in a plane crash.

SANCHEZ: Yes. And there was also somebody inside that warehouse who was hurt as well, but I understand he's doing all right now.

I'm Rick Sanchez.

KAGAN: And I'm Daryn Kagan. Wolf Blitzer will be with you after this break at the top of the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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