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Officials in Iraq Announce More Than 100 Suspected Terrorists Picked Up in Last Few Months; BTK Suspect Dennis Rader's Arrest Turns One Man's Life Upside Down

Aired March 02, 2005 - 10:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We are just a minute past the half hour. Good morning once again. I'm Daryn Kagan.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Rick Sanchez. Here's what's happening right now in the news.

A Spanish newspaper is reporting that a suspect in the Madrid train bombing was found with a sketch and technical details of New York's Grand Central Station. "El Mundo" says it's not clear whether that suggests the New York landmark was also a possible target. The March 11th bombing in Madrid killed 191 people and wounded 1,800 others. This was back in March of last year after the attack there in Madrid. By the way, it didn't happen overnight.

Also at this hour, President Bush is taking part in a roundtable discussion on job training. It's being held at the Anne Arundel Community College in Maryland. This is Arnold, Maryland. Mr. Bush, as you can see in some of these live pictures, is meeting with folks there. He'll unveil a $250 million initiative that would encourage small colleges to boost training of U.S. workers.

And now we take you to Capitol Hill. There Republican leaders say that their support of Mr. Bush's proposed Social Security reforms has not waned. But more than (ph) approval may not come this year. They say, quite simply, the opposition is better organized for now. GOP lawmakers say Mr. Bush's campaign-style effort to rally public support is showing results, but a vote is not likely before autumn, and that's at the earliest.

Across the pond, Britain's Queen Elizabeth this morning bestowed an honorary knighthood on Microsoft founder Bill Gates. Because Gates is a U.S. citizen, he will not be able to adopt the honorary title of "sir" before his name. Nonetheless, he says he is, quote, "humbled and delighted."

KAGAN: To Iraq and officials there today announce more than 100 suspected terrorists have been picked up in the last few months. Still, Iraq's most wanted man remains at large.

Our Jane Arraf joins us Al-Asad Airbase, near Hadisah (ph) in western Iraq. Jane is with the U.S. general who has been tracking Abu Musab Al Zarqawi.

Jane, hello.

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn.

We are in the middle of this huge stretch of territory that is overseen by the 1st Marine Division. And we have with us, as you mentioned, the commanding general, Major General Richard Natonski, who we wanted to, first of all, ask you about this operation that's been going on, Operation River Blitz. Nice catchy name, but what have you done actually?

GEN. RICHARD NATONSKI, U.S. ARMY: Well, we're really taken advantage of the momentum gained by the elections, proceeded by the fall of Falluja, to keep the insurgents on the run. With a lack of a sanctuary that they had in Falluja, they moved out west along the rivers. And River Blitz is addressing insurgents all the way from Ramadi west almost to the Syrian border. And what we've done is a series of operations to keep the insurgency off guard, keep them moving. And any time they move, they're vulnerable, and we've rolled up a good number of detainees.

ARRAF: Some of those detainees are said to be al Zarqawi aides. Does that bring you any closer to him?

NATONSKI: I think any time we get someone close to the inner circle of Zarqawi, you have access to certain intelligence that will allow you maybe to close in, but we still don't know exactly where he is.

ARRAF: Do you think he's in this area, though, close up to the Syrian border in the western desert?

NATONSKI: I think if we knew where he was, we'd be going after him right now.

ARRAF: And what are the most high level of the detainees that you've got? Who's important to you?

NATONSKI: Well, I think you're aware that we did get Zarqawi's driver, someone who is very close to his inner circle. And that's the key individual we have gotten so far.

We've gotten a lot of middle-level insurgent leaders, and these are the key, between Zarqawi and the fighters, that's the level of leadership you want to address and take out, either by detention or by kinetic means. That's was we are after in this operation.

ARRAF: What kind of information have you gotten, if any, from Zarqawi's driver?

NATONSKI: Well, I can't really tell you that, but I will tell you that what we have been able to process has led us to further operations, and we'll continue Operation River Blitz with a subsequent operation during March that will continue to keep the insurgency off balance, keep them moving.

And coupled with it, we're going to reach out to the people down in Falluja, where we're doing more civil affairs. We're hoping that claims will be paid so people can start rebuilding, but that city is coming to life. As the people see the insurgents on the run, we 're getting more intelligence from the common people. They're coming forward, they're telling us who the insurgents are, where we can find the arms caches, and I think they're getting more confidence in seeing the Iraqi forces conducting operations alongside us. So it's really been successful from a number of different points of views as we have prosecuted the enemy.

ARRAF: Is it a case, though, that the insurgency has shifted from Falluja down to this corridor to launch attacks on places like Mosul?

NATONSKI: Well, we did take out a lot of insurgents in Falluja that aren't ever going to fight us again. But some have migrated, and that's where we've seen this area around Haditha (ph). They've migrated here.

But the fact is they don't have a safe sanctuary where they can go and rearm, refit. When they lost Falluja, they lost a permanent base. So when they move, if we catch them at a roadblock. We can catch them when we get intelligence about where they might be located. We are running up a lot of these insurgents. And I'm real optimistic about the future here.

ARRAF: Thank you so much.

NATONSKI: My pleasure.

ARRAF: Daryn, that was General Richard Natonski, who's actually leaving here fairly soon, after a year in which he says he believes they have actually made significant strides against the insurgency -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Jane Arraf, joining us live from Baghdad, thank you.

SANCHEZ: In Chicago, a task force of local and federal investigators is working around the clock to try to unravel a double murder and its motive inside a judge's home. U.S. district Judge Joan Humphrey Lefkow returned home Monday to find the bodies of her husband and her mother. These pictures were taken earlier, we should say. Both had been shot and left in the basement. Less than a year ago, a white supremacist was convicted of targeting this judge, this woman, Lefkow, in a murder plot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES MALLOY, CHICAGO P.D. CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: This is but one facet of our investigation. We are looking in many, many directions, but would be far too early to draw any definitive links.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Federal authorities had previously taken the hate group's threats serious enough to assign agents to protect Judge Lefkow. The Lefkows had taken their own precautions as well, such as installing outside cameras. The father of that convicted white supremacist, Matt Hale, he's offering his condolences to the Lefkow family. Russell Hale is a retired police officer in East Peoria. He says that his son can't be involved in the killings because he's under constant surveillance. In fact, the elder Hale says the FBI even monitors his son's phone calls while he's awaiting sentencing. That's scheduled -- that sentencing, by the way, is scheduled about a month from now.

KAGAN: And now the latest on the BTK killer. Victim's families may have some comfort in knowing of an arrest in the case, but suspect Dennis Rader's arrest has turned one man's life upside down.

Our Frank Buckley has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Dennis Rader charged with murder is not the Dennis Rader George Martin has known for 20 years.

GEORGE MARTIN, FRIEND OF DENNIS RADER: I loved you as a brother and I still love you as a brother.

BUCKLEY: Martin met Rader in the mid-'80s when their sons both became Cub Scouts. The dads became friends and fellow scout leaders.

MARTIN: He always wore his uniform carefully and neatly and he was a person that was proud of (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BUCKLEY: Over the years they bonded over scout activities and Martin thought they shared similar sensibilities until Rader was arrested when someone said a community can now sleep at night.

MARTIN: And it's going to be a while before I can and, pardon me...

BUCKLEY: Now, Martin believes police have the right man that there were two Dennis Raders, the one who wanted to better his community in his work as a public servant and as a scout leader and the one now charged with multiple murders.

MARTIN: So many things that I admired and loved and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) suddenly went away because Dennis, the Dennis that I knew never -- he'll probably never be out of jail again so I'll never -- probably never see him again.

BUCKLEY (on camera): Rader is just a suspect but local Boy Scout officials have taken the view that he betrayed their trust. A spokesman for the local Boy Scouts Council saying in a statement that they were the "apparent victims of a deception that spanned decades."

(voice-over): Martin is still involved in the scout troop. Rader left a few years ago after serving for a number of years as an assistant Cub Scout leader. Boy Scout officials say there are no plans to investigate his years of leading boys and Martin says there's no reason to believe he harmed anyone while in the scouts. MARTIN: I have to go to the side of Dennis that I knew and the side of Dennis that I knew would not have done that.

BUCKLEY: Still, authorities say they think they've found the killer they've been looking for but George Martin has lost a friend.

Frank Buckley, CNN, Wichita, Kansas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Dennis Rader's arrest comes shortly after an updated profile of the BTK killer was created. Our guest, Deborah Schurman- Kauflin, created that update for a Wichita TV station. She had created an original profile for the Discovery Channel back in 2000. Both BTK profiles are remarkable in their similarities to what we know about the suspect, Dennis Rader. Deborah Schurman-Kauflin joining me this morning as she's been profiling serial killers for 20 years. Good morning.

DEBORAH SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN, VIOLENT CRIMES INSTITUTE: Good morning.

KAGAN: We should say as we go about this discussion, of course, he is a suspect, he has been charged, but he's not been convicted of the crime.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: That's right.

KAGAN: Yet, with that in mind, let's talk about some of the things that match up to the profile you came up with in 2000. The age. You thought -- you were predicting that this would be somebody younger than some people might have thought.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Right. A lot of people had profiled him as being in his late 30s at the time of the Otero murders.

KAGAN: Back in the '70s.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Back in the '70s. Because, typically sadists tend to be in their late 30s to early 40s.

KAGAN: And what was tipping you off that he was a little bit younger?

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Well, even though the crimes were very sophisticated in that he was able to get in and get out without any detection, there wasn't as much torture as maybe BTK would have liked to think that there was.

KAGAN: And we say that with asterix, because, of course the family members that are in so much pain from all this...

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: That's not to minimize that in any way. I'm just saying on a continuum of sadists...

KAGAN: Of what you see. SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: The older offenders tend to maybe hold their victims for days and torture them.

KAGAN: And he was very quick, in and out.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: He was very quick, in and out. Yes.

KAGAN: You predicted that this person would have a normal appearance, fit well in Wichita.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: That's right. Because they don't want to stand out. Serial killers want to blend in well. They don't want to raise red flags. And that's why they tend to be pretty neat in appearance and kind of keep a low-key profile.

KAGAN: One thing that kind of really caught my attention, looking through your profile, a connection to dogs. This guy was the dog catcher in Park City, Utah.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Right.

KAGAN: What was it about dogs that kind of caught your attention?

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Well, typically, sadistic offenders want to associate themselves with anything that's considered masculine or manly. So I figured if this individual would have a dog, it would be a larger-type dog, that he would have a dislike of smaller-type dogs. These people have very low tolerance for the smaller dogs that bark a lot. This guy would be screaming in his mind when he would hear something like that.

KAGAN: Some things that did not match up, and I'd like your reaction to, your surprise. You predicted that the BTK killer would not be married, would not have a lot of close friends. This is a man, long-time married, two children and very involved in his church community.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Well, it didn't surprise me that he was involved with his church community. That's a duality of the sadist -- sadistic serial killer. They often will put on this mask and go do charity work, do things that would look altruistic, but they do it -- I asked the serial killers that I interviewed...

KAGAN: And you've interviewed 17 others on death row...

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: I've interviewed 17 others on death row, yes. Really nice guys. Why they did that, why they would be involved in charities or churches, and they always would say well, I decided when I was going to be good, I decided when I was going to be bad. And then with a smile one of them said to me, and if I ever got caught, that would look good for me. People wouldn't believe that I could do these crimes.

KAGAN: Quickly, I want to ask you -- you created this profile. It goes to the Discovery Channel. The BTK killer took that and that was part of -- this profile was part of what was sent to one of these television stations, correct?

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Well, actually, the profile -- David Lore (ph), who's a crime writer, asked me do this for the crime library. I was on the Discovery Channel. And then apparently, last year, the BTK killer himself took parts of this story, which included my profile, and sent it in to Wichita media.

KAGAN: What's part of being part of his kind of sick game? Does that bother you?

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: A little bit. A little bit.

KAGAN: Thanks for the insight. Very fascinating to see inside of the mind. Once again, Rader in this case has only been charged in the case, but still the similarities very frightening.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Frightening.

KAGAN: Deborah Schurman-Kauflin. Thank you for your time. And we're going to take a quick break. We will be back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

SANCHEZ: And what we want to now is to bring you some of those stories making news from coast to coast.

KAGAN: In the NFL, bigger may not be better, after all. This is from a University of North Carolina doctor saying that she studied the body mass index of players and found that size does not equal success. And she says more than half qualified as medically obese. The NFL scoffed at her findings. Just look at scouting (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to see that.

SANCHEZ: Look at the offensive linemen and you'll see that. A Baltimore restaurant took a break from serving customers to serve the employees instead. Owners of the family business shut down the eatery to whisk workers off on an all-expenses paid trip to Disney World.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSSELL WARFIELD, EMPLOYEE: With 47 people, it's unbelievable the money it cost the man. And he don't even want to hear thanks. That's the kind of guy he is. Bruce Reamer (ph). What a sweetheart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Well, things not so warm over in the NHL. They have the lockout over there. But shaggy locks overflowed at this hockey game. Look at this one. Manchester, New Hampshire, last night. The Monarchs hosted their third annual mullet night, a dubious tribute to the painfully outdated do. We're thinking of a mullet for Rick Sanchez. And I'd also praise mullet hall-of-famers such as Billy Ray Cyrus, Patrick Swayze and Randy Johnson. Go mullets. SANCHEZ: Here is an interesting story that we're following for you, as well. Steve Fossett, who we told you about with his global fire -- he's having problems. His attempt to fly around the world solo on a single tank of gas may fall short because he may run out of gas, literally. They're saying he's about 2,600 pounds less fuel than they thought he would have at this point. And one theory is that it's not that he's losing the fuel, it's simply that the gauge was busted. So he started off with 2,600 gallons of less fuel than they thought he had in there.

KAGAN: I hate it when that happens.

SANCHEZ: So -- can you imagine? So here's what they're going to do. They're telling us that they're going to check and see if he has enough fuel to get to Hawaii, if he's able to go through the Pacific and then they might find a way to proceed, otherwise, they're going end this thing.

KAGAN: Yes, but, you know, isn't this the guy who tried like 50,000 times to do the balloon thing? He'll fill up again and he'll go.

SANCHEZ: And he'll do it again. Can you imagine, though, that something like this being planned for months and months and years and millions of dollars are put into it, and a little faulty gauge.

KAGAN: Heads are going to roll.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: There are new leads in Chicago. Details surfacing about the bodies found in the home of a federal judge. They'll hear how the evidence is coming together.

SANCHEZ: And then some 60 years later, baseball legend Jackie Robinson is giving one of the nation's greatest honors. The second hour of CNN LIVE TODAY begins right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired March 2, 2005 - 10:31   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We are just a minute past the half hour. Good morning once again. I'm Daryn Kagan.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Rick Sanchez. Here's what's happening right now in the news.

A Spanish newspaper is reporting that a suspect in the Madrid train bombing was found with a sketch and technical details of New York's Grand Central Station. "El Mundo" says it's not clear whether that suggests the New York landmark was also a possible target. The March 11th bombing in Madrid killed 191 people and wounded 1,800 others. This was back in March of last year after the attack there in Madrid. By the way, it didn't happen overnight.

Also at this hour, President Bush is taking part in a roundtable discussion on job training. It's being held at the Anne Arundel Community College in Maryland. This is Arnold, Maryland. Mr. Bush, as you can see in some of these live pictures, is meeting with folks there. He'll unveil a $250 million initiative that would encourage small colleges to boost training of U.S. workers.

And now we take you to Capitol Hill. There Republican leaders say that their support of Mr. Bush's proposed Social Security reforms has not waned. But more than (ph) approval may not come this year. They say, quite simply, the opposition is better organized for now. GOP lawmakers say Mr. Bush's campaign-style effort to rally public support is showing results, but a vote is not likely before autumn, and that's at the earliest.

Across the pond, Britain's Queen Elizabeth this morning bestowed an honorary knighthood on Microsoft founder Bill Gates. Because Gates is a U.S. citizen, he will not be able to adopt the honorary title of "sir" before his name. Nonetheless, he says he is, quote, "humbled and delighted."

KAGAN: To Iraq and officials there today announce more than 100 suspected terrorists have been picked up in the last few months. Still, Iraq's most wanted man remains at large.

Our Jane Arraf joins us Al-Asad Airbase, near Hadisah (ph) in western Iraq. Jane is with the U.S. general who has been tracking Abu Musab Al Zarqawi.

Jane, hello.

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn.

We are in the middle of this huge stretch of territory that is overseen by the 1st Marine Division. And we have with us, as you mentioned, the commanding general, Major General Richard Natonski, who we wanted to, first of all, ask you about this operation that's been going on, Operation River Blitz. Nice catchy name, but what have you done actually?

GEN. RICHARD NATONSKI, U.S. ARMY: Well, we're really taken advantage of the momentum gained by the elections, proceeded by the fall of Falluja, to keep the insurgents on the run. With a lack of a sanctuary that they had in Falluja, they moved out west along the rivers. And River Blitz is addressing insurgents all the way from Ramadi west almost to the Syrian border. And what we've done is a series of operations to keep the insurgency off guard, keep them moving. And any time they move, they're vulnerable, and we've rolled up a good number of detainees.

ARRAF: Some of those detainees are said to be al Zarqawi aides. Does that bring you any closer to him?

NATONSKI: I think any time we get someone close to the inner circle of Zarqawi, you have access to certain intelligence that will allow you maybe to close in, but we still don't know exactly where he is.

ARRAF: Do you think he's in this area, though, close up to the Syrian border in the western desert?

NATONSKI: I think if we knew where he was, we'd be going after him right now.

ARRAF: And what are the most high level of the detainees that you've got? Who's important to you?

NATONSKI: Well, I think you're aware that we did get Zarqawi's driver, someone who is very close to his inner circle. And that's the key individual we have gotten so far.

We've gotten a lot of middle-level insurgent leaders, and these are the key, between Zarqawi and the fighters, that's the level of leadership you want to address and take out, either by detention or by kinetic means. That's was we are after in this operation.

ARRAF: What kind of information have you gotten, if any, from Zarqawi's driver?

NATONSKI: Well, I can't really tell you that, but I will tell you that what we have been able to process has led us to further operations, and we'll continue Operation River Blitz with a subsequent operation during March that will continue to keep the insurgency off balance, keep them moving.

And coupled with it, we're going to reach out to the people down in Falluja, where we're doing more civil affairs. We're hoping that claims will be paid so people can start rebuilding, but that city is coming to life. As the people see the insurgents on the run, we 're getting more intelligence from the common people. They're coming forward, they're telling us who the insurgents are, where we can find the arms caches, and I think they're getting more confidence in seeing the Iraqi forces conducting operations alongside us. So it's really been successful from a number of different points of views as we have prosecuted the enemy.

ARRAF: Is it a case, though, that the insurgency has shifted from Falluja down to this corridor to launch attacks on places like Mosul?

NATONSKI: Well, we did take out a lot of insurgents in Falluja that aren't ever going to fight us again. But some have migrated, and that's where we've seen this area around Haditha (ph). They've migrated here.

But the fact is they don't have a safe sanctuary where they can go and rearm, refit. When they lost Falluja, they lost a permanent base. So when they move, if we catch them at a roadblock. We can catch them when we get intelligence about where they might be located. We are running up a lot of these insurgents. And I'm real optimistic about the future here.

ARRAF: Thank you so much.

NATONSKI: My pleasure.

ARRAF: Daryn, that was General Richard Natonski, who's actually leaving here fairly soon, after a year in which he says he believes they have actually made significant strides against the insurgency -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Jane Arraf, joining us live from Baghdad, thank you.

SANCHEZ: In Chicago, a task force of local and federal investigators is working around the clock to try to unravel a double murder and its motive inside a judge's home. U.S. district Judge Joan Humphrey Lefkow returned home Monday to find the bodies of her husband and her mother. These pictures were taken earlier, we should say. Both had been shot and left in the basement. Less than a year ago, a white supremacist was convicted of targeting this judge, this woman, Lefkow, in a murder plot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES MALLOY, CHICAGO P.D. CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: This is but one facet of our investigation. We are looking in many, many directions, but would be far too early to draw any definitive links.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Federal authorities had previously taken the hate group's threats serious enough to assign agents to protect Judge Lefkow. The Lefkows had taken their own precautions as well, such as installing outside cameras. The father of that convicted white supremacist, Matt Hale, he's offering his condolences to the Lefkow family. Russell Hale is a retired police officer in East Peoria. He says that his son can't be involved in the killings because he's under constant surveillance. In fact, the elder Hale says the FBI even monitors his son's phone calls while he's awaiting sentencing. That's scheduled -- that sentencing, by the way, is scheduled about a month from now.

KAGAN: And now the latest on the BTK killer. Victim's families may have some comfort in knowing of an arrest in the case, but suspect Dennis Rader's arrest has turned one man's life upside down.

Our Frank Buckley has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Dennis Rader charged with murder is not the Dennis Rader George Martin has known for 20 years.

GEORGE MARTIN, FRIEND OF DENNIS RADER: I loved you as a brother and I still love you as a brother.

BUCKLEY: Martin met Rader in the mid-'80s when their sons both became Cub Scouts. The dads became friends and fellow scout leaders.

MARTIN: He always wore his uniform carefully and neatly and he was a person that was proud of (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BUCKLEY: Over the years they bonded over scout activities and Martin thought they shared similar sensibilities until Rader was arrested when someone said a community can now sleep at night.

MARTIN: And it's going to be a while before I can and, pardon me...

BUCKLEY: Now, Martin believes police have the right man that there were two Dennis Raders, the one who wanted to better his community in his work as a public servant and as a scout leader and the one now charged with multiple murders.

MARTIN: So many things that I admired and loved and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) suddenly went away because Dennis, the Dennis that I knew never -- he'll probably never be out of jail again so I'll never -- probably never see him again.

BUCKLEY (on camera): Rader is just a suspect but local Boy Scout officials have taken the view that he betrayed their trust. A spokesman for the local Boy Scouts Council saying in a statement that they were the "apparent victims of a deception that spanned decades."

(voice-over): Martin is still involved in the scout troop. Rader left a few years ago after serving for a number of years as an assistant Cub Scout leader. Boy Scout officials say there are no plans to investigate his years of leading boys and Martin says there's no reason to believe he harmed anyone while in the scouts. MARTIN: I have to go to the side of Dennis that I knew and the side of Dennis that I knew would not have done that.

BUCKLEY: Still, authorities say they think they've found the killer they've been looking for but George Martin has lost a friend.

Frank Buckley, CNN, Wichita, Kansas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Dennis Rader's arrest comes shortly after an updated profile of the BTK killer was created. Our guest, Deborah Schurman- Kauflin, created that update for a Wichita TV station. She had created an original profile for the Discovery Channel back in 2000. Both BTK profiles are remarkable in their similarities to what we know about the suspect, Dennis Rader. Deborah Schurman-Kauflin joining me this morning as she's been profiling serial killers for 20 years. Good morning.

DEBORAH SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN, VIOLENT CRIMES INSTITUTE: Good morning.

KAGAN: We should say as we go about this discussion, of course, he is a suspect, he has been charged, but he's not been convicted of the crime.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: That's right.

KAGAN: Yet, with that in mind, let's talk about some of the things that match up to the profile you came up with in 2000. The age. You thought -- you were predicting that this would be somebody younger than some people might have thought.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Right. A lot of people had profiled him as being in his late 30s at the time of the Otero murders.

KAGAN: Back in the '70s.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Back in the '70s. Because, typically sadists tend to be in their late 30s to early 40s.

KAGAN: And what was tipping you off that he was a little bit younger?

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Well, even though the crimes were very sophisticated in that he was able to get in and get out without any detection, there wasn't as much torture as maybe BTK would have liked to think that there was.

KAGAN: And we say that with asterix, because, of course the family members that are in so much pain from all this...

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: That's not to minimize that in any way. I'm just saying on a continuum of sadists...

KAGAN: Of what you see. SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: The older offenders tend to maybe hold their victims for days and torture them.

KAGAN: And he was very quick, in and out.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: He was very quick, in and out. Yes.

KAGAN: You predicted that this person would have a normal appearance, fit well in Wichita.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: That's right. Because they don't want to stand out. Serial killers want to blend in well. They don't want to raise red flags. And that's why they tend to be pretty neat in appearance and kind of keep a low-key profile.

KAGAN: One thing that kind of really caught my attention, looking through your profile, a connection to dogs. This guy was the dog catcher in Park City, Utah.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Right.

KAGAN: What was it about dogs that kind of caught your attention?

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Well, typically, sadistic offenders want to associate themselves with anything that's considered masculine or manly. So I figured if this individual would have a dog, it would be a larger-type dog, that he would have a dislike of smaller-type dogs. These people have very low tolerance for the smaller dogs that bark a lot. This guy would be screaming in his mind when he would hear something like that.

KAGAN: Some things that did not match up, and I'd like your reaction to, your surprise. You predicted that the BTK killer would not be married, would not have a lot of close friends. This is a man, long-time married, two children and very involved in his church community.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Well, it didn't surprise me that he was involved with his church community. That's a duality of the sadist -- sadistic serial killer. They often will put on this mask and go do charity work, do things that would look altruistic, but they do it -- I asked the serial killers that I interviewed...

KAGAN: And you've interviewed 17 others on death row...

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: I've interviewed 17 others on death row, yes. Really nice guys. Why they did that, why they would be involved in charities or churches, and they always would say well, I decided when I was going to be good, I decided when I was going to be bad. And then with a smile one of them said to me, and if I ever got caught, that would look good for me. People wouldn't believe that I could do these crimes.

KAGAN: Quickly, I want to ask you -- you created this profile. It goes to the Discovery Channel. The BTK killer took that and that was part of -- this profile was part of what was sent to one of these television stations, correct?

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Well, actually, the profile -- David Lore (ph), who's a crime writer, asked me do this for the crime library. I was on the Discovery Channel. And then apparently, last year, the BTK killer himself took parts of this story, which included my profile, and sent it in to Wichita media.

KAGAN: What's part of being part of his kind of sick game? Does that bother you?

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: A little bit. A little bit.

KAGAN: Thanks for the insight. Very fascinating to see inside of the mind. Once again, Rader in this case has only been charged in the case, but still the similarities very frightening.

SCHURMAN-KAUFLIN: Frightening.

KAGAN: Deborah Schurman-Kauflin. Thank you for your time. And we're going to take a quick break. We will be back after this.

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(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

SANCHEZ: And what we want to now is to bring you some of those stories making news from coast to coast.

KAGAN: In the NFL, bigger may not be better, after all. This is from a University of North Carolina doctor saying that she studied the body mass index of players and found that size does not equal success. And she says more than half qualified as medically obese. The NFL scoffed at her findings. Just look at scouting (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to see that.

SANCHEZ: Look at the offensive linemen and you'll see that. A Baltimore restaurant took a break from serving customers to serve the employees instead. Owners of the family business shut down the eatery to whisk workers off on an all-expenses paid trip to Disney World.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSSELL WARFIELD, EMPLOYEE: With 47 people, it's unbelievable the money it cost the man. And he don't even want to hear thanks. That's the kind of guy he is. Bruce Reamer (ph). What a sweetheart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Well, things not so warm over in the NHL. They have the lockout over there. But shaggy locks overflowed at this hockey game. Look at this one. Manchester, New Hampshire, last night. The Monarchs hosted their third annual mullet night, a dubious tribute to the painfully outdated do. We're thinking of a mullet for Rick Sanchez. And I'd also praise mullet hall-of-famers such as Billy Ray Cyrus, Patrick Swayze and Randy Johnson. Go mullets. SANCHEZ: Here is an interesting story that we're following for you, as well. Steve Fossett, who we told you about with his global fire -- he's having problems. His attempt to fly around the world solo on a single tank of gas may fall short because he may run out of gas, literally. They're saying he's about 2,600 pounds less fuel than they thought he would have at this point. And one theory is that it's not that he's losing the fuel, it's simply that the gauge was busted. So he started off with 2,600 gallons of less fuel than they thought he had in there.

KAGAN: I hate it when that happens.

SANCHEZ: So -- can you imagine? So here's what they're going to do. They're telling us that they're going to check and see if he has enough fuel to get to Hawaii, if he's able to go through the Pacific and then they might find a way to proceed, otherwise, they're going end this thing.

KAGAN: Yes, but, you know, isn't this the guy who tried like 50,000 times to do the balloon thing? He'll fill up again and he'll go.

SANCHEZ: And he'll do it again. Can you imagine, though, that something like this being planned for months and months and years and millions of dollars are put into it, and a little faulty gauge.

KAGAN: Heads are going to roll.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: There are new leads in Chicago. Details surfacing about the bodies found in the home of a federal judge. They'll hear how the evidence is coming together.

SANCHEZ: And then some 60 years later, baseball legend Jackie Robinson is giving one of the nation's greatest honors. The second hour of CNN LIVE TODAY begins right after a quick break.

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