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CNN Live Today

Judge, Court Reporter Killed, Two Deputies Shot at Atlanta Courthouse

Aired March 11, 2005 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Perhaps he tried to carjack more than one vehicle, but at this point we're not sure. A search under way in Atlanta, Georgia at this hour.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN CO-ANCHOR: And our coverage continues now with Daryn Kagan. She is in Atlanta. She is going to take you through the rest of the morning and also get some more details on this breaking story.

Daryn, good morning.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to both of you.

And in fact, the story is unfolding just blocks away from us here at CNN's global headquarters in downtown Atlanta. The search going on, once again, for a suspect. To pick up our coverage from Bill and Soledad, using our affiliates, our many affiliates here in Atlanta. The search going on for a suspect.

This story began to unfold less than an hour ago. As we combine our reports of what we're hearing from our affiliates and from eyewitnesses, a man going to the eighth floor of the Fulton County Courthouse, pulling a gun from the deputy, according to witnesses there. And using that gun to shoot the deputy, the judge and perhaps the court reporter as well.

Getting word that that suspect fled the scene, took out of the courthouse and carjacked as many, some eyewitnesses are saying, as many as four different cars. It's possible the suspect is now going through downtown Atlanta on foot. And so the search goes on.

We're making great use of our affiliates. Let's listen in to some coverage now from our affiliate WSB.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've actually been in the chaos here for the last half hour or so. But there's been three or four different vehicles that they were looking for in the last bolo, the Be On the Lookout they gave was for a green Honda Accord. So that may be the vehicle that they're looking for right now.

Keep in mind after this suspect left, the suspect jumped in several different vehicles. So there may even be another one after this, a series of carjackings after the shooting.

And as Carol mentioned, Judge Barnes has been involved in several high profile cases here in the Fulton County Courthouse. We don't know what the case involving the suspect was. Apparently it was somebody in this courtroom who did wrestle a gun away from a Fulton County sheriff's deputy before this shooting occurred, fatally shooting the judge, a court reporter and apparently wounding a deputy.

And I'll tell you what. We have seen ambulances come and go from this area. It is unclear if anybody else has been injured either in the courthouse or any of these carjackings that immediately followed the shooting.

Again, this all happened around 9:00 this morning. It is a very busy time in the Fulton County Courthouse. The place was full of people when the shooting happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Russ, I'm wondering, we're getting reports from Grady that there were two sheriff's deputies transported there. We heard from Tyler, who was out at the scene, that he talked to somebody who heard some pops at a parking garage, where one of those carjackings might have happened.

Is it possible that there may have been some deputies, police, going after him and perhaps one might have been shot in that area?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. As you can imagine, it was a very confusing scene...

KAGAN: We're going to continue to go in and out of our affiliate coverage and make use of our own people. As I mentioned, the story is unfolding just a couple blocks from us here at CNN in downtown Atlanta.

CNN and Radio's Ed McCarthy is already at the scene and joins us by phone.

Ed, what can you tell us?

ED MCCARTHY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right now, they're bringing a stretcher in to the courthouse. And the scene here is one of chaos, as we have been told. We are learning that it's possible that a judge has been killed. A clerk of the court has been shot and also a sheriff's deputy. This woman that I have with me right now who does not want to be identified was at the scene. And she can tell you a little bit more.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm standing at the corner of Pryor and Martin Luther King Boulevard. I heard shots. I looked to my left outside the courthouse and saw a man shooting. At that point I got scared. Ran in the other direction. Deputies were running around everywhere. They told me to leave the scene because it was believed that the suspect had run into the parking garage at underground.

MCCARTHY: What we can tell you right now is that the search continues for this suspect. Helicopters are hovering above, trying to get a better view from the sky. And also the area is just one right now of chaos, as they are trying to find this suspect and trying to deal with the wounded. KAGAN: Ed McCarthy from CNN Radio. Ed, thank you. We will get back to you. We will cut you loose and let you go gather some more information.

Meanwhile, this story is unfolding very quickly. It was just about an hour ago that this incident began, when the suspect went into this courtroom on the eighth floor of the Fulton County Courthouse in downtown Atlanta. Grabbed a deputy's gun and shot the deputy and the judge. We have confirmed the judge is Judge Rowland Barnes. Officials say he was killed in that attack.

This is a file video of the judge, a judge that has handled many high profile cases here in the Atlanta area, including the case of Atlanta Thrashers hockey star Danny Heatley. He was accused of manslaughter in the 2003 car crash that killed his teammate and friend Dan Snyder.

We have on the phone with us right now B.J. Bernstein, a defense attorney here in Atlanta who has appeared before Judge Barnes many times.

B.J., thanks for calling in.

B.J. BERSTEIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, ATLANTA: I'm glad to be talking to you. I'm sad about what we have to be talking about. A true loss.

KAGAN: Absolutely understood. What can you tell us about Judge Barnes?

BERNSTEIN: Judge Barnes is extremely highly thought of in the legal community. He was a superior court judge here in Atlanta at the Superior Court of Fulton County. That's obviously the main county in the city of Atlanta and the surroundings. He presided over both criminal and civil matters. The criminal matters that he would hear would be felony criminal matters. And then all kinds of civil lawsuits divorces, all of those matters.

KAGAN: So it could have been any number of people who would be appearing in his courtroom.

BERNSTEIN: Absolutely. Every type of person. Every type of case. And the thing about him is no matter who you were or what you were presenting, this is a man who would let you have your say in court and then try to rule fairly.

KAGAN: B.J., obviously you weren't in the courtroom when this happened yet you've appeared as a defense attorney in front of Judge Barnes and have been practicing here for some amount of time. Explain to us how something like this could have unfolded in this courtroom?

BERNSTEIN: As the reports are coming, it is starting to make more sense. Because as you enter the Fulton County Courthouse or any courthouse for that matter now, you enter with airport-like security. You have to go through metal detectors. You have to put your bag through the screening device. So the idea that an outside gun could get in was difficult to believe. When you enter the courtroom, there is usually two deputies assigned to that courtroom who are armed, who are there in the courtroom paying attention to what's going on. The judge is up on the bench. The court reporter would be sitting up front. And the parties would be on two tables but in close proximity to all the people that are going on there.

So the only thing I can imagine is that someone would have had to have moved very quickly and suddenly to catch one of the deputies off guard in order to remove his weapon.

KAGAN: This is a second case of judge or judge's family being subject to violence over the last week. This is not the type of thing, I would think, that you normally think about when you go to present a case.

BERNSTEIN: No, except for it is a reality of life now that we do have that kind of security at courtrooms. I mean over the years, there have been enough incidents. You have to remember, that when people go to court, they're extremely upset. It's because there's a dispute for the most part, whether it is over a civil matter, over a divorce, child support, something criminal.

A lot is usually on the line. So emotions are high. And so that's why at a courthouse already there's heightened security, literally like what you see at the airport. So it isn't like authorities don't know that this is not a possibility. But when it does happen, it's always shocking.

KAGAN: All right. B.J. Bernstein, defense attorney here in Atlanta. Thank you for especially your thoughts on Judge Rowland Barnes, the first confirmed victim in the shooting taking place in downtown Atlanta.

A superior court judge, as B.J. Bernstein was saying well respected, well liked by the legal community here.

We are using our affiliates here in Atlanta. And we're going to check in with affiliate WSB, listen to what they're covering right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...1971. He is a black male. He is 34 years old. He is 6'1" tall, approximately 210 pounds. Again, the suspect's name is Brian Nichols. This is the man that allegedly shot multiple people on the eighth floor of the Fulton County Courthouse. I have unconfirmed reports that he shot another person as he fled the courthouse outside Pryor Street and Martin Luther King Jr.

As we told you earlier, Brian Nichols apparently attempted to carjack several cars. He is still on the loose. And authorities confirm for me that he is 34 years old, he is 6'1" tall. He is 210 pounds. He is a black male. Again, his name is Brian Nichols. And we're going to continue working this and give you more details as they come to us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dale, real quickly, are you getting any information on why he might have been in court today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have reports from law enforcement officers who tell me that there could have been a struggle for a gun on the eighth floor of the courthouse. I do not know at this time why he was in court. But I can tell you that outside law enforcement officers are not allowed to bring guns into the Fulton County Courthouse. The only people allowed to have guns inside the courthouse are the Fulton County sheriff's deputies who patrol the courts.

So if authorities tell me that it's likely that he wrestled a gun away from a deputy and fired multiple times on the eighth floor, that is the logical means by which he would acquire a gun. Again, Carol, the suspect's name Brian Nichols, 34 years old. 6'1", 210 pounds.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Well, thank you very much, Dale. And that does confirm the information we're getting that it did begin in a courtroom...

KAGAN: All right. We're going to go ahead and take the information that we're getting from one affiliate and use the resources of another. From our affiliate WAGA here in Atlanta, we have a picture of the suspect and we have the information from WSB. His name, Brian Nichols, as we're just hearing reported, 34 years old, 6'1", 210 pounds, African-American male.

What's not clear at this point is what business he would have had in the Fulton County Courthouse on a day like today. Why he would be in Judge Barnes' court.

But what we do know is that this is the man that police are looking for in the streets of downtown Atlanta right now. Reports saying that he is suspected of coming into the courtroom of Judge Rowland Barnes, grabbing a deputy's gun, shooting the deputy, shooting and killing Judge Rowland Barnes and perhaps a court reporter. A number of those victims are being transported to Grady Memorial Hospital, that's a county hospital not too far away from where the shooting took place.

But then reports also say that this suspect Brian Nichols fled the courthouse and went on a carjacking spree taking as many as four different cars, perhaps abandoning the last car and then going and perhaps fleeing the streets of Atlanta on foot.

Let's go ahead, we're getting more information on the potential victims in this case. Let's go to WSB.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That there are three people that have been transported here. And that seems to correlate with reports we are getting that a deputy -- two deputies and a clerk were shot at the courthouse and around the courthouse. We are hearing that the clerk was shot at close range and in critical condition here.

We did see at least two ambulances escorted by police motorcycles come flying through this avenue here, which behind me is the emergency room intake area. If you look around here, you can see security is pretty high. They're not letting us too close to the area. We've seen a number of police cars, marked and unmarked, sheriff's deputy and City of Atlanta Police come in here. Presumably they are high ranking command staff, who are checking in on the status of these people who are injured.

But right now unconfirmed reports that there are three people who have been transported here to the Grady Hospital emergency intake area.

KAGAN: And this shooting taking place just about an hour and 12 minutes ago, 9:00 a.m. Eastern. That would be just as court business would be getting started here in Atlanta, Georgia.

It turns out a reporter for local affiliate WAGA was inside the courthouse when the shooting took place. Let's listen to that report.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just found out -- I just spoke to attorney Renee Rockwell. Now, she was on the way to that courtroom, she says, when this all happened. She says the suspect was on trial for rape, that he got the deputy's gun and held the courtroom hostage, she says. Now, she was outside when this happened. So she was not in there, but she heard the yelling and the screaming.

She ran the other direction, she says, but people around -- that came out of that -- that were standing, rather, by the courtroom say the courtroom was held hostage. The man that was on trial, the man that was on trial got the deputy's gun. He was on trial for rape, she says.

And according to Renee Rockwell, the attorney again that was on the way to the judge's courtroom, that this suspect had a mistrial last week. And then he was returning to the courtroom today that he was incarcerated. And somehow he got that deputy's gun and held that courtroom hostage and then opened fire. Again, that's from Renee Rockwell, an attorney that was on her way to the judge's courtroom when all this went down.

And we're going to stay out here and bring you more when we have it.

KAGAN: We're hearing as many as three victims, some being transported to the local hospital. One, the judge in the case, Rowland Barnes, we confirm has been shot dead. A very well known judge here in the Atlanta area, high profile cases coming before him.

We have with us on the phone right now, Lindley Jones, a trial attorney here in Atlanta. And Ms. Jones, you know, you've known Judge Barnes?

LINDLEY JONES, TRIAL ATTORNEY, ATLANTA: Yes, I've known Judge Barnes for many years.

KAGAN: What can you tell us about the man, please?

JONES: Judge Barnes was an outstanding judge. He's not only known for being a fair jurist and running a very organized courtroom, but he is well loved among the lawyers that practice in front of him and the judges that work with him.

He is one of the judges that is very active in the community. He interacts with the local lawyers a lot, not only from the bench but also supports bar activities and whatnot. And this is a tremendous loss for us.

KAGAN: So you've appeared before Judge Barnes many times?

JONES: Yes.

KAGAN: I think one question a lot of people were asking this morning is how could someone get a gun in the courthouse. It appears the suspect grabbed the gun from a sheriff's deputy. Another question would be how could the suspect get away? How difficult would it be to get from the eighth floor of this courtroom down outside of the courthouse?

JONES: Well, it's a lot of stairs to climb or an elevator ride down, of course. And then they have to get out past an area where there's security right there. And apparently the communication about what had happened must have prevented them from being able to capture the suspect on his way out of the courthouse.

But this is really unheard of. Fulton County security wouldn't allow you to be able to bring a gun into that building under any circumstances. So this nuke of a suspect being able to get a gun away from a deputy is really shocking. And it's just about the only way that something like this could possibly occur.

KAGAN: And then as the search goes on for Brian Nichols through down town Atlanta, anybody who is familiar with downtown Atlanta, and Lindley, you can comment on, it's kind of a concrete jungle. It's a series of buildings, and parking garages, and one-way streets. It would be rather easy for someone to disappear.

JONES: Well, that's true. And there are lots of parking decks and nooks and crannies to disappear into. But apparently, and I know that the facts are still somewhat vague right now, but he may have been chased through the actual courthouse parking deck.

You know, it is a concrete jungle, but it is an enclosed area. There aren't a lot of ways to get out of downtown once the police are alerted and aware that you're trying to get out of downtown. So I'm hoping and thinking that it is just a matter of time before they actually do catch him.

I talked to one of my officemates. Bill Cromwell is an Atlanta lawyer who is in lockdown right now in the Fulton County Courthouse. So they did lock down the Fulton County Courthouse and many other government buildings downtown to keep him from entering those facilities and those building to keep more people from getting hurt.

KAGAN: OK. Lindley, thank you very much for that information.

A news conference just getting started. We're going to listen in with our affiliate WSB. SGT. CLARENCE HUBER: ... courthouse, 136 Pryor Street, who shot four individuals, a judge, two deputies and a court clerk. Now, I'm not going to release the names of these individuals at this particular time. We do have family members en route here. We want to make sure they're notified first of their conditions. And I'll provide those updates to you at a later time. All right? But at this particular time, all four victims are at Grady Memorial Hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, how did Brian Nichols, a suspect know any of the people involved?

HUBER: Again, I don't want to get into the details over that. We have investigations going on right now. I haven't been privileged to a lot of information. I'm just out here to confirm that we do have four individuals at the Fulton County Courthouse, 136 building, who were shot this morning.

(CROSSTALK)

HUBER: We do have a search for the suspect. I do have color photos of him and we e-mailed pictures to your stations. And the suspect is at large right now. He is identified as Brian Nichols.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did he get the gun?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you know about Nichols' criminal history?

HUBER: Again, we're looking into see exactly what happened. I don't have a whole lot of information for you at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why was Nichols in court?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: he was here at the Fulton County Courthouse this morning. That's all I can tell you.

(CROSSTALK)

HUBER: I am not going to confirm, I am not going to confirm any information about the four individuals who were shot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, can you tell us exactly where the shooting occurred?

HUBER: It happened at the 136-court building. That's tall information I'm going to release on that right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there a shooting outside as well?

HUBER: I have no information about a shooting outside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was a deputy's weapon involved in this shooting?

HUBER: Again, I don't have a whole lot of information for you right now. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell us exactly what time it happened?

HUBER: It happened early this morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's an update from Sergeant Clarence Huber of the Fulton County Sheriff's...

KAGAN: That sheriff's deputy not releasing a lot of information. But we can take what he's given us and what we've been able to take from our other sources and tell you what we know so far.

About an hour and 20 minutes ago, a man, a suspect who has been identified as Brian Nichols walks into a courtroom on the eighth floor of the Fulton County Courthouse in downtown Atlanta. According to reports, grabs a deputy's gun, shoots the judge in the courtroom dead. And that judge has been identified as Judge Rowland Barnes.

Brian Nichols, after the shooting took place, as we understand, fled the courthouse and went through a number of carjackings.

We have with us on the phone right now somebody who says he was one of those carjacking victims.

Deronte Franklin, are you with me right now?

DERONTE FRANKLIN, CARJACKING VICTIM: Yes. I am.

KAGAN: DeRonte, tell me what happened to you this morning?

FRANKLIN: I was sitting at the corner of Peachtree and Walls when the SUV come around the corner sliding. And by that time, about two or three police came up. They were looking for the vehicle. And I pointed to them that he went in the parking deck.

As I was showing them where he went, he was still sitting there. And he took off and broke the gate on up through the parking deck. So as I came back to my truck to sit in my truck, the rest of the police unit came up asking where he was at? And I pointed over to that way. As they went up in the deck to try to locate the subject, he came back down with the handgun and told me to get out of the truck. And I told him he can have the truck. And I walked away.

KAGAN: What did you think? I mean you clearly knew who you were looking at that point?

FRANKLIN: Yes.

KAGAN: And he did have a gun at that time?

FRANKLIN: Yes, he did.

KAGAN: And other than pointing the gun at you, did he threaten you in any way?

FRANKLIN: No. He just pointed the gun at me and told me to get out of the truck. And I told him he could have it. He went northbound on Peachtree, and made a left up the one-way street on Walter's.

KAGAN: Not a typical day at the office for you, DeRonte?

FRANKLIN: Say that again.

KAGAN: Not a usual day at work for you, what you expected when you came to work today?

FRANKLIN: Oh, no. I was expecting tow calls today.

KAGAN: Did you -- when this was all unfolding, you saw the police looking for this suspect, did you realize what had taken place before, that the shooting had taken place at the courthouse?

FRANKLIN: No, I didn't. I just thought it was a regular car chase.

KAGAN: And were you able to then contact police officers and then they took off after in the direction that you pointed?

FRANKLIN: Yes.

KAGAN: All right. But you are safe. You're OK. You did the smart thing. You handed over your truck.

FRANKLIN: Exactly. I'm here at the office.

KAGAN: All right. Deronte Franklin, thank you for that.

Once again, the word we're getting about the suspect Brian Nichols, that there were a number of carjackings that took place. We just listened to that tow truck driver, DeRonte Franklin.

This man is Brian Nichols, 34 years old, African-American, 210 pounds, 6'1", 34 years old. We're getting word the reason he was in the courthouse and before Judge Rowland Barnes, was he had been facing rape charges that had been a mistrial. But for some reason, there was another appearance he was supposed to have today. And that's what brought him to this courthouse. That according to reports from our local affiliates.

Our Ed McCarthy of CNN Radio is on the scene in downtown Atlanta, and has another eyewitness to talk with.

Ed, go ahead.

MCCARTHY: Yes. What we are learning now is that there were more shots outside the courthouse, as the suspect was getting away.

And this young lady that I have here is a staff attorney for the superior court. She prefers not to give her name.

But let me just ask her what you saw and what you heard when you were outside the courthouse. You were in a dangerous situation. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I was standing at the corner of Pryor and Martin Luther King when I heard shots. I looked. I saw a man shooting towards the courthouse. It appeared that he shot somebody who was down at that point. I got scared. Ran in the other direction and was told by deputies who were running around the scene that I needed to get away from the scene.

Once I got to the front of the courthouse, I was told that it appears that the suspect had run into the parking garage and had one of the investigators held at gunpoint. But that's what I heard.

MCCARTHY: At this particular point, the situation is very fluid. They're obviously looking for the suspect. The area is cordoned off. And just a short time ago, a stretcher was brought up the front steps of the Fulton County Courthouse. That's an indication that they'll be tending to one of the wounded inside the courthouse.

Of course, we had heard that a judge was shot and killed. And the situation now is one where authorities are focusing on trying to get the suspect and tending to the wounded also who were shot. Four shot apparently here in downtown Atlanta, the Fulton County Courthouse. Usually a very, very busy area.

And right now there's a very somber mood prevailing here, as people stand outside, court employees, and also people who have been in the area that have heard what's gone on.

KAGAN: Ed, as we understand it, that courthouse is still in lockdown. So if people were inside there when this took place about an hour and 20 minutes ago, they are still there.

MCCARTHY: They are still inside. Some people were able to get outside. Some of the employees, they're standing on the steps right now and waiting to find out what is happening here. Many people here, trying to get more information as to what has transpired here. But obviously it's a very sad scene here, especially for the people who are in close contact with these shooting victims every day here at this very busy courthouse area in downtown Atlanta.

KAGAN: And once again -- Ed, if you stay with me here. One of the victims that we confirmed that has been killed, shot and killed just about an hour and 20 minutes ago, Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes. We've talked to a number of attorneys that have appeared before this judge. He handles both criminal and civil matters. Everyone that has called in, very complimentary of this judge saying he was a fair judge and handled his courtroom very well.

The search, Ed, for Brian Nichols appears to be focused right now on downtown Atlanta. As you were explaining, the first part of the story takes place in the courthouse, in the courtroom. The second part, as he comes out with the gun, still having a gun. So clearly this man is still armed and a number of carjackings taking place.

All right. We're going to get Ed back.

But right now, we want to bring in Felicia Humphries. Felicia, I understand you were at the scene when this took place.

FELICIA HUMPHRIES, EYEWITNESS: Yes, ma'am, I was.

KAGAN: And what can you tell us? Where were you and what did you see?

HUMPHRIES: I was exactly -- I was coming through the doors of the courtroom on the opposite side. When I was coming down, I was told to clear the building. So I just went to the corner and stood at the corner against the building.

And as I did that, you know, I just turned. I just turned to my side and I saw that there was a man laying on the ground. So at this point, police officers and sheriffs are running from everywhere. Then I said to myself oh, my God. There's the one -- I didn't know what was going on.

KAGAN: So you weren't familiar at that point that the shoot had already taken place on the eighth floor?

HUMPHRIES: Yes. Yes. I was outside. So evidently, the sheriff must have been running towards the door and he got shot. Because I came and stood right there and I turned to look and he was right there. I mean just laying on the ground.

KAGAN: The person laying on the ground appeared to be a sheriff's deputy or a civilian?

HUMPHRIES: Yes. Yes. The dep -- the sheriff's deputy. The sheriff's deputy, the one that was shot right outside the building. Right outside the building.

KAGAN: So you never saw the suspect, though.

HUMPHRIES: No. No. I never saw the suspect. I just saw the sheriff just laying there and all the officers coming to assist the sheriff. And then the police cars and things started pulling up. And you know, we stayed this for a while because he was just laying there, just motionless.

KAGAN: But it appears that four of the victims have been transported to Grady Memorial Hospital.

Felicia Humphries, thank you for that.

I want to go back and make use of our affiliates coverage, WAGA, W-A-G-A filing this report. Let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... injured, but what we are hearing now from district attorney sources and from sources here in the courthouse is that this are a total of five victims now. Five victims. Three of them dead and their bodies literally being processed as we speak inside the courtroom on the eighth floor. This is in Judge Barnes' courtroom. And that the two deputies that were injured were injured as this suspect was trying to escape from the Fulton County Courthouse complex. And that is the latest.

And as you can imagine, we continue to be on lockdown held in this particular courtroom where we've been at for quite some time, ever since this really started. I can tell you at the beginning of the day, our murder trial started up. Seemed normal.

They immediately, immediately put everyone in lockdown, removed the jurors, removed all of the -- moved the suspect in this particular case. Have them all kept in a safe location and make sure that nobody is allowed to leave, the particular offices, the courtrooms, wherever they are in they are to remain there.

And we're being held here literally at gunpoint, with people with guns drawn to make sure that we don't leave to keep us safe, just in case the suspect should return.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mark, can you give us an idea how many people are there with you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, in this particular courtroom I'm in -- I can count them, two, four, six, about 10 or 15 people. You have the attorneys, you have the defense attorneys, you have the prosecuting attorneys. You have a couple of -- one or two bailiffs. You have got our court reporters. And you've got the families of both the victim, as well as the families of the suspects, all sitting here. And we've been sitting here for quite some time.

Needless to say, this trial has been put on hold. The judge we have not seen at all since this first happened. As soon as this happened, the judge jumped off the bench and went back into what we are presumed is a secure location and we...

KAGAN: There's a live picture of downtown Atlanta. We're getting close to the bottom of the hour. So let's go ahead for our viewers that are just joining us, recapping the story that is unfolding right now.

Downtown Atlanta, just blocks away from us here at CNN, a story that began just an hour and a half ago at the Fulton County Courthouse in the courtroom of Judge Rowland Barnes. Apparently, a man, the suspect has been identified as Brian Nichols walked into this courthouse on the eighth floor. Pulled a deputy's gun, according to reports, and started shooting.

Shot the judge. Judge Rowland Barnes, officials tell us, a superior court judge has been killed. Apparently, as the suspect, Brian Nichols tried to escape two sheriff's deputies were also injured in that. They've been transported to Grady Memorial Hospital, the nearby hospital. And also we're getting reports that the court reporter in the courtroom was shot as well.

The story goes on after Brian Nichols escapes from the Fulton County Courthouse, as he tries to flee, we're getting reports of a number of carjackings that took place. At this point, it's unclear if Brian Nichols is fleeing on foot or is in yet another car. And that search going on through downtown Atlanta right now, as we cover the story.

Our Randi Kay has made it to the scene.

And tell us what you know, Randi.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, I can tell you right now, I'm on the corner of Pryor and Martin Luther King Jr. Street here in downtown Atlanta, right in front of the courthouse.

Just to set the scene for you, there are hundreds of people out here on the street, including law enforcement, ATF, Fulton County sheriff's deputies, there are a number of ambulances parked outside here. We've seen a couple of gurneys already being taken inside the building.

Just confirming what you are saying, we are able to confirm for you that the Fulton County Judge Rowland Barnes was shot and killed by a man in his courtroom this morning. We talked to a woman who was just in his courtroom a couple of days ago, showing up for jury duty. She was back here this morning, and when she was leaving the parking garage, having parked her car, heading to the courthouse, she heard some shots fired. She saw that sheriff's deputy laying on the sidewalk outside the courthouse here. We spoke with her. We also spoke with a man who is a friend of the daughter of Judge Barnes, and he said the family has been notified and is also confirming for us the death of Judge Rowland Barnes here this morning.

Apparently this man grabbed the gun from the deputy here and started firing, then took off in one of the cars here, but made his way out of the courthouse, got into one car through a car carjacking, apparently, and then left that car at the top of the hill here, and jumped into another car. So, apparently there was more than one carjacking outside the courthouse here.

I can tell you that they've closed the streets her. The courthouse is apparently on lockdown except for some of the emergency personnel making their way inside. Quite a scene out here. Hundreds of people out here on the streets wanting to get some answers and wanting this man to be apprehended for their own safety -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And as that search goes on, a lot of questions about how this could have happened in this courthouse in downtown Atlanta.

We have with us on the phone -- and Randi, thank you for that report -- have with us on the phone right now Renee Rockwell, an attorney, and Renee, I'm told you were in the courtroom, in Judge Barnes courtroom, when the shooting took place?

RENEE ROCKWELL, ATLANTA DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, ma'am. That's not correct.

I was on my way to the courtroom when the deputies were running through the hall. I saw a deputy's hat on the floor in the hallway. The deputies were running with their guns drawn, and they said, get in the courtroom, get out of the way, and one deputy just grabbed me and pulled me in the elevator with him that was going down to the front, they were going out of the courthouse.

While we were in the elevator, one of the deputies, female deputies, started crying and said that the defendant took the deputy's gun and held the courtroom hostage and shot the judge. And I just kept saying, what judge, what judge was it? Well, apparently, it was Judge Rowland Barnes who is presently trying a case right now where an individual -- this individual who was very disturbed -- was on trial for raping and kidnapping his fiancee.

Now, my understanding was that he had gone to his fiancee's house a couple of days earlier with an ice chest and lunch meat and bread, and he was planning on spending her birthday with her, which was two days away. Anyway, he kept her hostage, raped her, sodomized her. The trial was last week. The trial was a hung jury, which means they could not decide on the outcome. So they retried the case again this week. I spoke with the defense attorney -- his name is Barry Hastings (ph) -- I said, how is Gail (ph) doing? A girlfriend of mine is trying the case. Her name is Gail Abramson (ph). He said that the attorney is doing an excellent job -- not that they didn't do an excellent job last week, but usually on retrials, when they try the case a second time, the state does an excellent job because they've seen where any problems are.

My understanding after the trial last week, when the trial was hung, that the defense attorney and the prosecutor went in there and spoke with the jury. A lot of times you can get a lot of information from the jury when that happens.

Anyway, on the retrial, this individual, who is on trial, is a prisoner at the Fulton County jail. So therefore they dress them out just like regular citizens, but they have to transport these individuals back and forth to the courthouse, and they try to make them look like every other citizen. They dress them up in regular clothes. And my understanding is that the deputy -- that some deputy -- he took some deputy's gun, held the courtroom hostage...

KAGAN: Well, Renee, let me ask you a question here, because in that case, and you're a defense attorney, so I'm interested in how the process works. If someone is staying at the Fulton County Jail and is brought over and dressed in civilian clothes, are they not shackled in any way? They wouldn't have handcuffs or anything?

ROCKWELL: You know what? I don't know if he was -- I don't know where exactly it happened, but at some point you have to sit the defendant right next to the defense attorney and there's a deputy in the courtroom and the deputy has a gun. I'm surprised it hasn't happened before. I mean, this is a guy that's going down, if he gets convicted, for life plus. I mean, I'm just surprised it hasn't happened before.

KAGAN: Well, very sad that it's happened today.

And Renee, I want to thank you. That's defense attorney Renee Rockwell calling in. Tries a number of cases there in that courthouse. This is a story very much going on. The search on for Brian Nichols. Let's put his picture up again and tell you what we know about him: 34 years old, 6'1, 210 pounds, African-American male. Renee Rockwell confirming what we heard earlier reports, that this man had been on trial for rape charges last week. There had been a mistrial or hung jury, as that defense attorney was saying, and that trial was going to start again this week. And she was explaining that the stakes very high for Brian Nichols, because he, if convicted, could go to jail for life.

As the story unfolds -- very quickly, we've already confirmed that the victim, one of the victims, Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes shot and killed about an hour and a half ago in his own courtroom.

And I have on the phone with me, Drew Findling. Drew, I'm being told that you're a good friend of Judge Barnes.

DREW FINDLING: Hello?

KAGAN: Yes. Drew, Finely, you are with us?

FINDLING: Yes. It's Findling.

KAGAN: Findling, I'm sorry.

You're a good friend of Judge Barnes?

FINDLING: Well, I've practiced in front of Judge Barnes my entire career.

KAGAN: So, you're a defense attorney here in Atlanta?

FINDLING: Criminal defense attorney, and Judge Barnes brings a unique perspective to the bench. He was a career magistrate, and that is, he would hear preliminary hearings, bond hearings, kind of lower cases.

We have a statute in Georgia where superior court judges that hear felonies could decimate somebody like him, and Judge Barnes was just incredibly ambitious to eventually be clad with the black robe. He fulfilled that goal and became a member of the bench through many times trying to get there.

KAGAN: And in this position as a superior court judge, I'm told he would hear criminal and civil cases. A number of high profile cases, including the Dany Heatley case last year.

FINDLING: Absolutely, and the unique thing about Judge Barnes is he enjoyed the trial of cases. A lot of judges want to move cases along, are not real interested in being tied down to a jury trial. Judge Barnes loved jury trials, loved interactions with jurors, loved highly charged trials, controversy. You know, he's a big, imposing, physical man. He brought -- I kind of, I always called him the layman judge, didn't speak with big fancy words. He'd kind of crawl in the jury box, had a real appeal to the common person. KAGAN: Drew Findling, thank you for your comments on Judge Barnes today.

We have a number of defense attorneys calling in. Apparently, Judge Barnes a very popular man, a well-respected man, a well-known man, as well, shot and killed in his courtroom earlier today, about an hour and forty minutes ago.

The search for the suspect, Brian Nichols, who was on trial in this courtroom on rape charges -- that search still goes on through downtown Atlanta at this moment.

I want to welcome on the phone Dennis Scheib, another criminal defense attorney.

Dennis, I understand that you've had a chance to talk with Judge Barnes' family already.

DENNIS SCHEIB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hello?

KAGAN: Dennis, are you with me? It's Daryn Kagan on CNN.

You've had a chance to talk with Judge Barnes' family?

SCHEIB: No, I actually spoke to the daughter about another matter, talking to her about her school. She called me this morning probably about, actually, a quarter till 8:00, and we talked about -- she was wanting to go to law school, and I just made a comment about, you want to be like your dad, a lawyer or a judge, and she said yes. Because Kiley (ph) used to work for me, and so I know the judge very well. I've eaten with him before and gone into his chambers, actually last week, and talked to him.

KAGAN: Well, tell us about the man, because too often in a situations like this the focus is on the suspect. But, tell us about the man that clearly is going to be mourned, not just by the legal community but by friends and family.

SCHEIB: Well, it's a great loss to lose a man like that. I listened to Drew a few minute ago, and he's right. I mean, I've known Judge Barnes for 20 years. I first did a civil case with him about 20 years ago, and he's just like the common man, very smart, he has great patience on the bench. And a lawyer could go in or D.A. could go in and talk to him and ask him questions, legal questions. He was like a professor sometimes.

But he was one of the nicest people you would ever want to meet, and he was such a respectful person on the bench. He's not like some judges I've seen that were just so arrogant to deal with, and so pompous. He was not like that. He would speak to people with great respect. Yes, sir, no, sir, and he had such patience, and he ruled, and he thought about what he did. And he is going to be sorely missed. I mean, he's one of the finest people and finest judges I've ever been before.

KAGAN: Dennis, let's talk about what unfolded at this courthouse here today. First question people have, how would someone get a gun in there? But apparently the answer is the suspect grabbed the gun from a deputy. Another defense attorney I talked with earlier said she's surprised something like this hasn't happened before.

SCHEIB: I've gone over this and mentioned this to people and actually one of the candidates who ran for sheriff was going to go ahead and have me teach the deputies arrest techniques and procedures, because I've been in martial arts for 40 years. I trained with the Japanese police in the '70s. And I was a deputy sheriff and a police officer for 13 years. The security in the Fulton County Courthouse, the way they deal with prisoners is absolutely atrocious. And I've said and I've written articles to "Daily Report," I've spoken to judges, spoken to D.A.s, I've spoken to deputies up there. And said this was going to happen at some point in time.

KAGAN: Dennis, hold that thought. I'm going to come back to you in just a minute. I want to get some updated information from WSB, one of our affiliates. Let's listen in.

JIM STRICKLAND, WSB REPORTER: ... or Brian Nichols. There's a fire engine there. And again, further up to the west along this street, there are several ambulances that are -- that have been parked and are just standing by as well.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER, WSB: Jim, I would imagine if they know they're already dealing with a suspect that shot and killed a judge and court reporter and two deputies, they know how dangerous he is. There's got to be tremendous concern among law enforcement as they try to approach this guy when they do find him.

STRICKLAND: Well, you have to believe that his mindset, the mindset of anyone who is the subject of this brand of manhunt, would be that of desperation. You have to wonder what he was thinking when he took it upon himself to take that deputy's gun and start firing in the courthouse in the first place. He can't be thinking that he's going to get away with it, although what else could he be doing except for running around there in the desperate hope that he can elude police for as long as possible?

We have been able to find some background on a man named Brian Nichols through our sources back at Channel 2 Action News. We believe he has ties to the state of Florida. We haven't absolutely confirmed it yet. But we have found a Brian Nichols matching his birth date with several ties to the state of Florida as well. I'm sure authorities know that by now and are acting upon it if they see fit.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER, WSB: All right, thank you very much for that updated information, Jim Strickland. Now we want to go back to Channel 2's Ross Cavitt live with the scene with some new information from there -- Ross.

ROSS CAVITT, WSB REPORTER: Well, we're still just hearing more details about what happened up inside the eighth floor of the Fulton County Courthouse this morning. Apparently Judge Barnes was about to hear a series of motions involving the suspect in this case, Brian Nichols. But before that, had some business to attend to when it came to a civil matter. The Fulton County District Attorney's people were not even in the courtroom yet. There was some discussion apparently going on about that civil matter in the courtroom before Nichols' case was called. That's when he apparently then grabbed the deputy's gun and opened fire.

It is unclear at this point what triggered this act of violence, whether he just simply freaked out before his case was supposed to come back to trial. Apparently he was on trial last week, but that ended up in a hung jury and this was going to be a retrial that would start shortly. And then we're going to hear some motions that preceded the trial in the courtroom after the judge was done with the civil hearing. But again, there was a civil case that was being heard in that courtroom in the moments before the gunshots rang out.

After that, apparently the suspect then made his way down from the eighth floor and came out the Central Avenue exit, the main exit for the Fulton County Courthouse and ran toward Martin Luther King with another Fulton County sheriff's deputy in hot pursuit. Once the suspect then crossed Central on MLK, heading toward a parking garage, turned and fired according to witnesses we talked to, five times at the pursuing deputy, hitting that deputy multiple times on the corner immediately behind me here.

That deputy and the three others inside the courthouse were rushed immediately to Grady Hospital. It's only a few blocks away. They were there within moments. And again, as you heard, we have confirmed that the judge and the court reporter that was in the courtroom have died. The deputy in critical condition and a fourth deputy has been wounded.

Again, agents with the FBI and GBI have arrived here at the courthouse to help begin this investigation along with the Fulton County sheriff's deputies, Atlanta police, even there's some capital police here, as well, and state of Georgia police on the scene, helping in the investigation and the search for the suspect Brian Nichols. Carol, back to you.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER, WSB: Ross, I don't know if you know the answer...

KAGAN: We're going to jump in here to our affiliate coverage. Getting some new information there from that reporter, from Ron Cavitt, downtown Atlanta. Search going on right now an hour and 45 minutes past when the shooting took place on the eighth floor of the Fulton County Courthouse.

The suspect, Brian Nichols, a 34-year-old African American man on trial on rape charges. Apparently in the courthouse of Judge Roland -- in the courtroom of Judge Roland Barnes, pulled a gun from a deputy, used that judge to shoot the judge, who was killed, and we're also hearing from that report with Ross Cavitt, the court reporter there was killed as well. That person has not been identified. Two deputies in the search and the chase for Brian Nichols have been wounded. They've been taken to the local county hospital. I have on the phone with me right now Evelyn Parker. She is a court reporter here in Fulton County as well. And Evelyn, you were not in this courtroom but you have fears that you know the court reporter who was there.

EVELYN PARKER, FULTON COUNTY COURT REPORTER: Well, yes, I know all the court reporters that work in this building. And Julie Brandow (ph) is Judge Barnes' regular court reporter and she's my best friend. I don't know if it was her or if she had a substitute, but I'm trying to find out. And do you have any idea, the description of the court reporter?

KAGAN: We have not heard anything more, Evelyn, I'm sorry to tell you. That it was just the court reporter who was in the courtroom at the time. Were you in the courthouse when the shooting took place?

PARKER: No, ma'am, I was walking down Central Avenue from the Coke Pavilion, you know, walking down...

KAGAN: So you were on your way to work?

PARKER: I was on my way to the courthouse. And I was at the corner of Central and MLK and deputies were running out with their guns drawn towards the underground parking deck. And there was a deputy down on the sidewalk. He might have been the one that was shot multiple times when the guy turned around or whatever. And then the deputies were running towards the parking deck. And then it just became very chaotic with people pouring out of the courthouse and a lot of police cars and sirens and ambulances and helicopters. And we were told that the perpetrator was in the parking deck and we were all, you know, made to cross the sidewalk and come over closer to the Coke Pavilion. But I am just...

KAGAN: I can only imagine. When did you get word that this took place in Judge Barnes' courtroom?

PARKER: Well, it was like 9:00 when I was walking down the street and I've been standing out here ever since. And some attorneys that I know came out and I kept saying has anybody heard who got shot? And they said, the court reporter, and that's when I just lost it. And, you know, I'm just trying to confirm because there's so many stories.

KAGAN: Right. And a lot going on and I'm sure a lot swirling around. Evelyn, I imagine that you're really concerned with trying to get in touch with Julie or her family to find out...

PARKER: Yes.

KAGAN: So what we're going to do, we're going to let you go. Because that's most important right now. So, thank you for calling in. I wish I had more information that we could share with you. All we know is that the judge was killed, Judge Barnes, and the court reporter, but I do not have a name on the court reporter. But thank you for calling in and our thoughts are with you as you try to find news of your best friend. Evelyn Parker, a court reporter in that same courthouse, calling in.

Our Randi Kaye, our CNN correspondent, is on the scene in downtown Atlanta right now and joins us -- Randi?

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, I can tell you the very latest from here. We just spoke with a juror by the names of James Bailey (ph) here. He has been on this trial involving Mr. Nichols since Tuesday in Judge Barnes' courtroom. He said the defendant was charged with kidnapping, sodomy, a hostage situation, in possession of a machine gun, a handgun and marijuana. He said, in describing Judge Barnes, he described him as the nicest man he has ever encountered. He described the court clerk who was also involved, the court reporter, as baking cookies and brownies for the jurors. A very special woman. In fact, they brought her a thank you card today because today was expected to be the last day of the trial.

In describing Mr. Nichols, they said that -- he said -- the juror described him as making him nervous. He said he would sit at the defense table and stare down the jury. As I said, today was supposed to be the last day. I asked him about any friction between Mr. Nichols and Judge Barnes. He said that the defendant was always very respectful of the judge. He described him as very interactive with the jury, making a lot of faces and staring them down. But once again today was expected to be the last day of the trial, but the jurors never did make it inside the courtroom -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Our Randi Kaye there on the streets of downtown Atlanta. Once again, more about this suspect. And Randi, that helps us fill in some holes there. On trial in Judge Roland Barnes' courtroom, a second try at a rape trial. The first one last week ending in a hung jury. They were going for the second time today. Brian Nichols, 34 years old, the suspect, 6'1", 210 pounds, African-American male, on trial for rape. The search for him still going on at this hour through downtown Atlanta.

Let's now hear from our affiliate WAGA.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was attempting to park, waiting to get my ticket, and as I was getting my ticket, I thought I heard shots, but didn't really pay it that much attention, went on to make my turn to go up the ramp, and I saw a gentleman run by, didn't really pay him a lot of attention, went on to start going up the ramp, and started hearing just a ton of sirens. As I got up to the top and got parked, I went and looked over the wall of the parking garage, and I saw the sheriff laying on the ground, and that's kind of when I started connecting everything. You know, I heard shots, I see this guy run by. And at that point, you start to panic - you don't know whether to leave out of the garage or get in your car and leave.

There were several of us standing there not knowing really what to do, so two ladies and I made a decision just to get in the garage elevator and get out of here. And when we got down the sheriff was there with a gun trained on the elevator with the doors opened, scared us to death, rushed us out, and we got out and saw the sheriff being worked on.

WAGA REPORTER: Now, the sheriff, was he pointing a gun at you thinking maybe you were the suspect when the doors opened to the elevator?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think so. I think so. Yes, I think so. They didn't know where he was, and I'm pretty sure they thought that he could be in the elevator.

WAGA REPORTER: Now what did he look like? Did he have a gun? Did you see a gun on him?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I didn't see anything other than a guy running. I could you only that it was a black guy. I couldn't really tell -- I know the clothes were rather, I think, dark, but other than that, I really paid him no attention. He just ran by the car. And I really couldn't swear that that was the shooter, but it all connects to the point that it probably was.

WAGA REPORTER: OK, and at that point, that's when you and your friend decided that you were going to get out, but clearly, you are still here, could not leave.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, we can't leave. They won't let us back to the garage.

WAGA REPORTER: Did they tell you any indication as to when you can go back and get your car?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, they haven't. They haven't. I thought by now they would. I don't know if they're still investigating inside or what, but they haven't told us anything.

WAGA REPORTER: Did you hear any screaming, or just the gunshots?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just the gunshots.

WAGA REPORTER: And how many did you hear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I couldn't really tell you. I mean, there was more than three, I would tell you. I've heard five, but I can't tell you I've heard five. And it was really multiple, the reason I really didn't -- wasn't sure that they were were gunshots, because in the garage it almost sounded. It was almost somebody dropping something on a cement floor almost, you know. It didn't really sound like gunshots, but I I mean, kind of thought they were because of the repetition behind it.

WAGA REPORTER: And when you came out of the parking garage here, you say you saw the deputy that was being worked on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he was on the -- they were taking him, putting him in the backseat of a sheriff's car.

(END VIDEOTAPE) KAGAN: And this is a story still very much in progress at this hour here in downtown Atlanta. The search is on for the suspect Brian Nichols, believed to have gone into the courthouse, the Fulton County courthouse, almost about two hours ago, taking a deputy's gun, shooting the judge, Rowland Barnes dead, also shooting the court reporter dead in that courtroom, and then fleeing.

The next chapter of this story takes place outside the courtroom. You were just hearing that eyewitness talk about it, leaving the courthouse, carjacking a number of cars and perhaps fleeing on foot. We have another eyewitness account of what took place just outside the courthouse.

Let's listen to that.

UNIDENTIFIED WSB REPORTER: That's right, Carol.

A number of city and county officials rushing down here to Grady Hospital to check on the status of these people who were injured and shot and killed, and it has been a very active area down here at the emergency room at Grady Hospital. A lot of high security here at the same time. One person who has not reported down here to the hospital that we understand has been pistol whipped is the "AJC" reporter who -- the "AJC," "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution" confirms with me was carjacked and pistol whipped down near the courthouse, Don O'Brien (ph), who has been with the "AJC" for at least 20 years is reportedly talking to the police right now. He's in the gray Honda Accord. That is his car, and now believed to be the car being driven by the suspect, and police are looking for that person right now.

But Don O'Brien appears to be from what we understand OK talking to police, but we're told on his way down here to Grady to be checked out.

UNIDENTIFIED WSB ANCHOR: I think what might have happened, because we've heard that there were several carjacking attempts.

KAGAN: That's Alan Wong (ph) from our affiliate WSB, giving us some information that we're also starting to hear off the wires, that another victim in this case is a features reporter for the local paper, "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution," apparently just pulling up to the courthouse, when the suspect Brian Nichols, pistol whipped him to get his green Honda Accord, and that is one of the cars that apparently police have lookout for, Green Honda Accord with the Georgia license plate 6584YN. That features reporter has been taken down to Grady Memorial hospital where he is being treated. He apparently will be OK and is able to give statements to police.

Our Randi Kaye standing by.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The search is still certainly under way, Daryn. We're making our way around to the other side of the courthouse here in downtown Atlanta. The streets are blocked off. There are a number of ATF agents and Fulton County sheriff's deputies here on the scene. We had told you a little bit earlier in this hour that a couple of gurneys had been taken inside. We still haven't seen them come back outside. We're just walking up the hill here, where there's a couple of ambulances where there is some activity. I'm making my way over there to try and find out the very latest for you.

We have spoke within that one juror who was a part of that trial that Mr. Nichols was involved in, and he (INAUDIBLE) the judge as the kindest man he ever met. He did say that the defendant made the jury very uncomfortable.

Now I am at the scene here on the back side of the courthouse from where we just were. And this is a car that officers are going through with their gloves. They seem to be taking some samples of some things inside, and that's all I can tell you right now. They're not letting anybody very close to the car, but the media is here. Apparently in this car there is a victim, and that's all we can tell you right now. We're not sure at this point if it's related or not.

Well, Randi, what we're going to do, we're going to cut you loose and let you go and find out more about what's taking place at the search of that particular car.

You bring up a good point in that when this shooting took place at 9:00 a.m. Eastern, court well under way in downtown Atlanta, and the courthouse full, parking garage full when the suspect fled and the search started for the suspect. Everything in that area went on lockdown. They closed streets. They locked down the parking garage. They locked down the courthouse. So people who were there, as we understand it, are still there. Can't get out of the courthouse, and are not allowed to get their car out of the parking garage at this time.

We continue our coverage now. Marc Teichner a reporter with WAGA brings us this.

MARK TEICHNER, WAGA REPORTER: We do continue on lockdown. We have not gotten any new information. The last we got from our sources in the district attorney's office mentioned that there were three people deceased in the courtroom up on the eighth floor.

And to set the scene for folks, as soon as this occurred, I quickly rushed up to the eighth floor, and you saw an awful lot of deputies running around. You saw paramedics with emergency equipment running around. You saw a lot of people crying and hugging.

And eventually they, you know, cleared that area, as soon as they were able to get things under some sense of control. And then they immediately cleared that area, that eighth floor, and told me to go back down to a safer area, then no sooner did I get down to this particular floor when we were put into lockdown, the entire courthouse.

KAGAN: And from there we're going to go to our affiliate WSB. Let's listen in to their coverage.

UNIDENTIFIED WSB REPORTER: ... the folk museum, the underground, if you're familiar with that general area. Very busy area in the middle of the day like this. We also believe that a second deputy was shot in a parking garage that is diagonal from the courthouse, perhaps when the suspect was trying to carjack a getaway car. We heard from Channel 2's Alan Wong that the deputies are both in very serious condition at Grady Memorial Hospital.

But the sad news to report that two people were shot dead in the courtroom, Judge Rowland Barnes and the court reporter. We do not yet have her name as they try to notify family.

Judge Rowland Barnes had presided over a number of high-profile cases and everyday case over many years, as we heard from a woman who just called who was a prospective juror on the rape case on Monday. The rape charges that Brian Nichols is facing. She was just there for a brief time, but she said he seemed to have a good sense of humor, that Judge Barnes made them feel very comfortable as jurors. And she said it was her first time there, so you know how scary it can be when you walk into that big courthouse, and you don't know what to expect.

But that's what we've been hearing from various judges, that he really helped people feel at ease, that he understood that this was a very uncomfortable situation for a lot of people, to go into a courtroom for everyday people, and we have just heard nothing, but very, very positive things about him, as a person and as a fair-minded judge. We're still, as we said, waiting to get more information about the court reporter.

KAGAN: And as we get close to the top of the hour. I want to welcome our viewers that are just joining us. I'm Daryn Kagan at CNN global headquarters in downtown Atlanta. Just blocks away from where this breaking story continues to develop.

Exactly two hours ago a suspect in a courthouse, the eighth floor of the Fulton County Courthouse, Brian Nichols -- there's his picture. This is who police are looking for at this moment: an African-American male, 6'1", 34 years old, 210 pounds, a rape suspect on trial in the courtroom of Judge Rowland Barnes, a superior court judge, longtime judge here in Atlanta.

Reports say that Brian Nichols pulled the gun from a sheriff's deputy inside this courthouse, shot and killed Judge Barnes, also shot and killed the court reporter inside that courtroom. That court reporter has not been identified at this point.

From there, the suspect, Brian Nichols, took off, made it outside of the courthouse, and apparently a number of carjackings took place. And the search, as you look at these live pictures from downtown Atlanta, continues. Much of downtown Atlanta in lockdown at this time, whether it's the courthouse where the shooting took place or the streets or the parking garage.

This -- let's take a look at this. This is what they believe could be the latest car that the suspect is in. It's a green Honda Accord. The license plate, 6584YN.

They believe this is the car of a features reporter for "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution," the local paper, who happened to be pulling up to this courthouse as this took place. Reports say that the suspect beat the reporter, took his car and took off. That reporter, along with two sheriff's deputies, have been taken to Grady Memorial Hospital, which is very close by to this courthouse.

We have a number of our own correspondents on the scene. We're also making great use of our local affiliates here in Atlanta.

Want to bring in my colleague, Gary Tuchman, who is standing by in downtown Atlanta -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, I'm standing on the courthouse steps where this happened. It's a very tense and uncomfortable atmosphere here in downtown Atlanta.

Atlanta is a big city, but not big enough where everyone doesn't often get paranoid when something like this happens, when there's someone who is being looked for who is armed. Right now people are being very careful with what they're doing.

You were just talking about the car they're looking for. There have been reports of three different vehicles at points that they're looking for. One of them was a red jeep. And to give you an idea of the paranoia, as you, Daryn, I live in the Atlanta area and I was going to drive my own vehicle into the downtown area to the story, but I drive a red jeep. And I decided it would be completely unsafe in this atmosphere right now where everyone is rather paranoid at this point to drive a red jeep near this courthouse.

But as of right now, we are being told that this was just a horrible, nightmarish event where a trial was about to start in a rape case and this man accused of rape, Brian Nichols, who is 33 years old -- he was born in December of 1971, so he just turned 33 a few months ago -- but he actually grabbed the gun from the deputy standing in the court. To get into this courthouse you need to go through a metal detector. You're not allowed to bring in weapons.

But there are weapons in courtrooms from the deputies. But he grabbed the deputy's gun, shot the deputy, held the courtroom hostage, and then ultimately shot the judge, shot a court reporter, and then escaped from the eighth floor down to the street, and then shot another deputy who was on the street before carjacking a vehicle and getting away. And as of now, this man, armed, dangerous, is still being looked for -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right, Gary. We'll get back to you.

We also have our Randi Kaye on the scene.

Randi, what can you add? When we last checked in with you, you were by a car police were searching. Randi, are you with us? Randi Kaye?

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I am, Daryn.

KAGAN: The latest you can bring us, please. KAYE: OK, Daryn. The very latest right now is they are still searching for Brian Nichols. There is still a crowd gathered outside the Fulton County courthouse, and still 50 to 100 or so gathered here on the street, including media and curious onlookers.

The latest that we know right now is ATF still on the scene. Sheriff's deputies still inside. Gurneys that had gone into the building earlier still have not come out.

We did report, as you know, that this man had apparently grabbed the gun from a sheriff's deputy inside the courtroom. We want to let you know that apparently some courts around the state of Georgia, like Cobb County, for example, have safeguards on those guns that will actually disarm. That was not the case in this situation here this morning.

We can tell you that we did talk with one of the jurors who was involved in this case with Brian Nichols who was accused of rape, kidnapping, sodomy, hostage-taking, possession of a machinegun, a handgun and marijuana, and he described Nichols in the courtroom as staring the jury down. He described him as making him nervous. They were expecting today would be the last day of this trial, and unfortunately, very sadly, this is how it ended.

He described Judge Barnes as the nicest man he has ever encountered. He told us today that he was bringing a card -- in fact, the entire jury was bringing a card to the court reporter who was also shot and killed this morning, bringing a card because she had baked them cookies and brownies. And they wanted to bring her a card this morning to say thank you.

In terms of any friction between the defendant and the suspect now in this case and the judge, he said, the juror I spoke with this morning, said apparently no friction, that Nichols was apparently very respectful of Judge Barnes. Daryn, that's the latest from here.

KAGAN: All right. Randi Kaye, thank you for that.

Want to join our affiliate WAGA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... presumably, once they figure out everything is in fact safe. So that's the latest here in the courthouse at this particular moment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'll check back in with you in a moment. In the meantime, let's get over to Morse Diggs. He is at Grady Memorial Hospital with the latest developments from there -- Moe.

MORSE DIGGS, REPORTER: Yes, we want to see if Denise Simpson has any further word for us.

No? Nothing new? OK.

Denise Simpson, the PIO with Grady, just passed us. She's got nothing new she can tell us. We did moments ago speak to one of the chaplains. Fulton County has chaplains here. Warren Henry gave us some reaction here. Let's roll that tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIGGS: Your role is to...

WARREN HENRY, FULTON COUNTY CHAPLAIN: I'm the Fulton County chaplain.

DIGGS: And your role?

HENRY: At this time we assist each other. We comfort the whole county, everybody.

We even comfort you, because sometimes you know the victims. So we're here. I've got to go...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chaplain, what is going to be your duties down at the courthouse?

HENRY: Be there for anybody who needs consoling and strengthening. Just put our arms around each other.

Fulton County is a loving county, strong family. When things like this happen, the love comes from everywhere. So right now they just need to put our arms around each other and tell them we're going to make it.

DIGGS: Can you tell us what the mood is like...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIGGS: OK. We're back live now.

Word we have speaking to one of the judges who came by here and visited earlier is that one of the deputies, one of the two deputies here being treated here has died this morning from the gunshot wounds. Again, they are -- we're seeing what we presume to be family members coming in here, gathering. There's a chaplain inside as well, as you just heard, Warren Henry, saying that he's headed back over to the courthouse to try to comfort colleagues there in Fulton County, as well as family members.

So a very fluid scene here. Still awaiting word here on the status of the other deputy. I'm Morse Diggs reporting live from Grady.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, Morse. Thank you.

Again, we want to update you...

KAGAN: While we're getting that word from our affiliate, WAGA, we have not confirmed that. What we do know in terms of casualties in this, the judge, superior court Judge Rowland Barnes was shot and killed. The court reporter in the courtroom also killed. We do not have a name on the court reporter.

And we had heard that two sheriff's deputies were shot and taken to the hospital where Morse Diggs was reporting from. They were reporting that one of those deputies has died from those wounds. CNN has not confirmed that yet.

Let's get to -- let's go back to the idea of what Brian Nichols, the suspect, was doing in the courtroom in the first place. A 34- year-old man on trial for a long list of disturbing and violent charges, including rape and sodomy and kidnapping, an incident that happened last August.

He is accused of taking his then girlfriend, kidnapping her and raping her. First trial was last week, ended in a hung jury. They were going again this week when this shooting took place.

The victim, the shooting victim, superior court Judge Rowland Barnes, we've talked to a number of defense attorneys. This is a judge who's been on the bench here in Fulton County for a number of years, presiding over a number of high-profile cases. Probably the one that's going to be most recognizable to our national audience is that of Atlanta Thrashers hockey star Danny Heatley.

He received three years' probation after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor charge, vehicular -- vehicular homicide. That was in connection with a car crash back in 2003 that killed his Thrashers' teammate and friend Dan Snyder.

This trial that was taking place right now, the second trial of Brian Nichols. Of course a jury listening to that. One of the jurors on that case, James Bailey, had this to say just a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was about 6'2", very athletic. An African- American gentleman, very short hair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was his name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brian Nichols.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you spell it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know how to spell it.

He -- his demeanor, was very interactive with the jury. He was like keeping his eye on all of our eyes to see our reaction and everything during the jury selection process as well. He had a background in criminal justice I guess on the -- in his education. So he knew maybe what was going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the trial started Tuesday?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It started Tuesday. Every time -- every time he looked up, we saw him looking at our reaction. So it made us a little nervous, and we always kind of looked the other way. Today was anticipated to be the last day, but it looked like it was going to carry on past today. We had just heard the last witness for the prosecution. I think maybe we had one more detective to go. The defendant hadn't -- hadn't spoken yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you expand on what made you nervous about him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, every time you looked up he was staring at you in the eyes. So I tried to always look, you know, to whoever was testifying. I mean, it was just -- you know, we all kind of formed somewhat of an opinion on the outcome of it, but we hadn't heard from him, and we wanted to hear him...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old was the woman (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The woman was 33 and I think he was 33 as well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You talked earlier about...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: And so two parts of the story. The shooting taking place about two hours and 10 minutes ago. We know at least two people dead from that shooting, the judge and the court reporter, inside -- inside that courtroom on the eighth floor of the Fulton County courthouse.

Then the suspect, Brian Nichols, fleeing the courthouse. A number of carjackings taking place.

We're going to get to that in a moment, but because the suspect is still at large, there are also a number of lockdowns, including the courthouse. This is the Georgia license plate that they're looking for, a green Honda Accord. Including the courthouse, including the parking garage, the streets of downtown Atlanta, also we're getting word 40 schools in the area, Atlanta public schools, 40 public schools have gone into lockdown because of the suspect that is armed -- who is armed and still on the run in downtown Atlanta.

Now, as the story unfolded, as the suspect left the courthouse and tried to carjack a number of cars, one of the people he came in contact with, we're hearing, is a features reporter for "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution," the local paper here. Have on the phone with me right now Mary Dugenske, a spokesperson for the paper.

Mary, what can you tell me?

MARY DUGENSKE, "ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION": We can tell you that our reporter, features reporter, Don O'Brien, was carjacked, his car was taken this morning by the suspect. Don is in good condition and is cooperating with the police.

KAGAN: It sounds like there was somewhat of a struggle, though.

DUGENSKE: There was. He was -- he was hit with the butt of the gun over his left eye. He ran from the attacker and he managed to escape.

KAGAN: So is that Don's car that they're looking for?

DUGENSKE: It is. The green Accord is Don's car.

KAGAN: And have you had a chance to talk with Don at all?

DUGENSKE: I have not personally, but other AJC employees have and he's in good condition.

KAGAN: He went -- he's at the hospital and being treated, and he's going to be OK?

DUGENSKE: He'll be fine.

KAGAN: OK. What was he doing -- was he going to cover a story? He just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?

DUGENSKE: That is pretty much it. He was arriving for work this morning and was pulling into his normal parking garage when he encountered the suspect.

KAGAN: All right. So "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution" getting roped into the story. But that is encouraging news that longtime reporter -- he's been with the paper for like 20 years.

DUGENSKE: More than that, yes. Yes.

KAGAN: Well, the byline well known to readers of your papers.

DUGENSKE: Most definitely.

KAGAN: Yes. Don O'Brien, a features reporter for the paper, beaten by the suspect, pistol-whipped, took his gun. Maybe we can put the license plate up once again.

All right. And we're getting an update now from -- well, let's do this first. Here's the Georgia tag. This is Don O'Brien, the features reporter for "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution." This is the license plate on his car, 6584YN, a Georgia license plate, a green Honda Accord.

We had a chance to talk with a tow truck driver earlier today who said that the suspect had taken his truck. So apparently going from car to truck to truck, or truck to car to car, and still on the loose. A number of buildings, also 40 schools, public schools in Atlanta on lockdown as the search for the suspect takes place.

We have an update on the casualty list here. We have been reporting that the judge in the case, Rowland Barnes, was shot and killed, also the court reporter who has not been identified has been killed. We heard two sheriff's deputies were shot and injured. We're now hearing that three people are dead in this case, and we had heard -- we had heard those earlier reports from -- from one of the local reporters saying that he had heard one of the sheriff's deputies had died at Grady Member Hospital from his wounds. It appears that we were able to confirm that now.

So now three dead, one injured. And in addition to that, a reporter for the local paper injured as well. And the search still goes on for Brian Nichols, the suspect.

I mentioned this tow truck driver. He called in, we talked to him earlier. Let's listen to that interview once again.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we were sitting at the corner of Peach Street and Walls (ph) when the SUV came around the corner sliding. And by that time about two or three police came up.

They were looking for the vehicle, and I pointed to them that he went in the parking deck. As I was showing them where he went, he was still sitting there. And he took off and broke the gate on up through the parking deck.

So as I came back to my truck to sit in my truck, the rest of the police just came up and asked where he was at. And I pointed over to that way. As they went up in the deck to try to locate the subject, he came back down with a handgun and told me to get out of the truck. And I told him he could have the truck, and I walked away.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KAGAN: That was Ronte Franklin (ph), the tow truck driver who encountered the suspect earlier today.

Let's talk again about the victim here, Judge Rowland Barnes, a superior court judge. We have had any number of defense attorneys call in and talk about this judge, well loved and well respected man. Well known here in Atlanta for handling a number of criminal and civil cases, high-profile cases, including the Atlanta Thrashers case.

The Atlanta Thrashers hockey star Danny Heatley involved in the vehicular homicide case. We have Danny Heatley's attorney, Manny Arrora, with me on the phone right now.

Manny, thank you for calling in.

MANNY ARRORA, ATTORNEY: Thank you.

KAGAN: What can you tell us about appearing before Judge Barnes and about this man?

ARRORA: Judge Barnes is probably the greatest judge I've ever been in front of, because I used to be assigned to his courtroom when I was an assistant district attorney there. Judge Barnes was the one that would always mentor us. After seven years of prosecuting, he was the one that encouraged me to go into private practice, and I pretty much owe my whole career for him.

He bends over backwards for defendants like no one I've ever seen to be fair. He just goes completely out of his way to make sure he's being fair. And this is just horrible that somebody could do this to him.

KAGAN: You certainly saw that in the Danny Heatley case. For people who weren't familiar with that, a tragic case. Danny behind the wheel in 2003 during this car crash. His friend, Dan Snyder, killed in that.

The Snyder family came forward, did not want your client to go to jail. You had to have a compassionate judge that was going to work with both sides in order to come to a resolution in this case.

ARRORA: That's right. And it didn't matter if it's high profile or just a small drug case. He really took the time to do what he thought was right.

He didn't worry about the political ramifications or if somebody would be unhappy with him. He always did what he thought was right. He respected the lawyers, he treated us fabulously. Like I said, I owe my entire career to him for encouraging me to go out into private practice and put me where I am today.

KAGAN: What more can you tell us about Judge Barnes? Do you know about him personally? We talked to one defense attorney who said he had been speaking with his daughter. So we know he had at least one daughter.

ARRORA: Right. I mean, he's got a close family. And he had a lot of friends around here.

I know he liked to go to Florida for his vacations. He had a very nice condo out there that he liked to travel to.

And he just -- he enjoyed life. He enjoyed what he did. And it's just, you know, unfortunate that this has happened. It's a horrible loss for our county.

KAGAN: What about the situation as it unfolded? For as long as you've worked in Fulton County and been down there both, as you're saying, as a prosecutor and a defense attorney, how does something like this take place? How does a defendant in a rape trial get his hands on a deputy's gun?

ARRORA: It must have just been a freak thing, because generally when defendants come there they're usually either bound by the wrists or the feet. However, during a trial, so there's not a negative inference against the defendant, they don't have them bound. And you just have a couple of deputies standing near the defendant so nothing happens.

But clearly he must have gotten the better of one of the deputies, gotten the gun. And, you know, this whole thing happened.

KAGAN: Was there a concern among defense attorneys or just among people who worked in that courthouse about security at the Fulton County courthouse?

ARRORA: Well, security has been just as good there as any other courthouse or federal court that we go to. I mean, they're very thorough about checking it out. And unfortunately, somehow he must have gotten the jump on one of the deputies and, you know, it's one of those things I suppose that everybody knows could happen, but you don't think about it.

People are trained. And I'm not really sure why -- you know, how he was able to get the gun away from the deputy.

KAGAN: Manny Arrora, longtime attorney here in Atlanta, Georgia, defense attorney for Danny Heatley. And it sounds like a great admirer of Judge Rowland Barnes.

Manny, thank you for your comments.

ARRORA: Thank you.

KAGAN: Once again, this story is still developing. We have a number of schools in lockdown. At least 40 schools in the Atlanta area in lockdown. That means the kids are in and the parents can't get to them. The search for the suspect under way, and we are going to go now to a report from Ross Cabot (ph) from our affiliate WAGA.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... in the courtroom on the eighth floor. We're told of the old section of the Fulton County courthouse in Judge Rowland Barnes' courtroom. At that time, there was a civil proceeding being held, but a suspect that has been identified as Brian Nichols during that civil proceeding before his case was supposed to come up -- he's potentially faced a retrial on a rape charge -- grabbed a deputy's gun and opened fire, killing Judge Rowland Barnes, killing the court reporter in the courtroom, and killing a deputy, as well.

Now, the two deputies were wounded in the initial moments after the shooting. One inside the building, another on the street right behind me here. As the deputy was chasing suspect Nichols across Martin Luther King into a parking garage, the suspect turned and fired multiple times, as many as five times back at the deputy, felling him on the corner here at Martin Luther King and Central Avenue. Paramedics were on the scene within moments conducting CPR, but apparently in vain as one deputy has been gun killed, along with the judge and the court reporter.

In the moments after that, then the suspect Nichols went into the parking garage and allegedly pistol-whipped a newspaper reporter, carjacked or attempted to carjack his car. Then drove down an undetermined amount of distance where he carjacked a wrecker and then possibly a couple other cars. There have been a few lookouts that police have been following in the hours since this happened that include a gray Mercury Sable, a green Honda Accord, and the latest we heard is a green Isuzu Trooper, all vehicles that suspect Brian Nichols might be driving at this particular time.

Since this happened at 9:00, the mood has swung from shock, unbelief now, to extreme sorrow over the death of the three people here at the Fulton County courthouse. The GBI and FBI have arrived on the scene to help local authorities try to figure out exactly what happened and hunt down their suspect.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And we continue to make the most use of our large number of local affiliates here in Atlanta. Let's listen in now to WXIA

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Jackson Elementary, Jones Elementary, Finch Elementary, Oglethorpe Elementary, Evansville Elementary, Peyton Forest Elementary, E. Rivers Elementary, Garden Hills Elementary, Smith Elementary...

KAGAN: WXIA now going through the large number of local schools that are in lockdown, of course of concern to parents in the area.

I'm getting some e-mail from some friends here that the area that they have locked down schools quite extensive, going well beyond the reach just of downtown Atlanta. And once again, that means parents are not allowed to get to the school and the children not allowed to leave.

Want to go ahead -- as I was mentioning before, Judge Barnes, Judge Rowland Barnes, longtime superior court judge. A lot of high- profile cases, but a lot of not so high-profile cases either.

A longtime judge, well respected. It's been fascinating this morning how many defense attorneys have called in to offer not just their condolences, but their thoughts about this man who was so well respected and did such an excellent job on the bench. Judge Rowland Barnes killed today in his own courtroom.

Let's listen to one defense attorney who called in earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was about to walk into the courtroom. I was actually on the other side of the -- on the Central Avenue side, and deputies were running everywhere. There was a deputy's hat that was on the -- on the -- on the floor on the ground, and they said, "Get in the courtroom or come with us."

Anyway, I ran into the elevator, and when I was in the elevator, one of the deputies told me that the defendant -- and I assumed that it was the defendant that was on trial for rape -- grabbed the deputy's gun and held the courtroom hostage and shot the judge and shot somebody else in the courtroom. I understand now that it's the court reporter.

And then we were whisked out of the courthouse, and when I came around the corner here on the MLK side of Central -- the big courthouse right here, there was a deputy down. And apparently he had ran after the defendant and was trying to get him. But the defendant ran across here on MLK and shot at him I heard five times. I did not hear the shots.

He ran into the parking deck. And then you've told me that he's carjacked a couple of vehicles. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: And from there we go back to our live pictures and check in our coverage with WXIA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... but certainly the area where I'm standing, which is Central and MLK, is locked down. They are -- they have the area blocked off. It looks like they have it blocked off for at least a block along MLK.

However, the state capitol, which is just about a block and a half from here, is open. And lawmakers are working in both the House and the Senate on the -- what's called crossover day, where bills have to make it out of one house at least by today or they're through for the year.

So there's a huge calendar that they have to work on today, and they are working, although with heightened security. This according to Michele Hit (ph), who's a spokeswoman for speaker Glenn Richardson.

The world of Coke over here, which is just, oh, about a hundred yards or so in front of where I'm standing, behind the camera sort of, that is open, it appears, and people are going in and out. But behind me is where the blockade begins, and that is where the deputy was shot. One of the two deputies who were shot.

And as you mentioned, I heard that shooting right at almost exactly 9:00 this morning. That was about five shots, first three quickly together, and then almost immediately after that two very close together. Three and two, and then we ran toward the scene and saw the deputy on the ground.

He was initially moving. Richard Crab (ph) told me that he got a look at him and at least at that point his eyes were open. We spoke to a witness who saw it just seconds before we did, and she said that he was standing up briefly after he was shot, and then almost immediately collapsed.

Officers worked frantically on him. After just a few minutes, where I could see a little bit of movement, there was none. And they tried to get him into a squad car rather than wait for an ambulance, and that was how desperate they were. That's how seriously they thought he was injured.

KAGAN: Local news reporter Dennis O'Hare, with WXIA there.

We're looking at live pictures again. This from downtown Atlanta.

The search has been going on for about 2.5 hours now for Brian Nichols. He is the suspect in the shooting case taking place at the Fulton County superior courthouse in downtown Atlanta, really just a few blocks from where we are here at CNN. Those of you familiar with downtown Atlanta, also World of Coke, underground Atlanta, this is all the general area where this is taking place. S.W.A.T. team members because this man believed to be armed and dangerous. This man, Brian Nichols, eyewitnesses saying he was on trial for rape, a second trial for rape. The first trial ended in a mistrial last week.

This was expected to be the last day of the trial. About 900 a.m., the suspect Nichols apparently got up, took a gun from a sheriff's deputy inside the courtroom, shot the judge, Rowland Barnes, and killed him, shot the court reporter. He has not -- the court reporter has not been identified yet.

We go on with our coverage as we listen in to WSB.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... being told that he is OK, just a few stitches. Of course, his car just the first of several that we believe this person carjacked. His car was a green Honda.

Then we understand that a truck was carjacked. In fact, a tow truck. And from there, the last report we had was a green Isuzu.

From the scanner traffic, we understand he was going north on Peachtree towards Spring Street. That's kind of the last update we heard. So a green Isuzu is a vague description, but that's about all we have right now.

So good news from here, though. The AJC reporter who was pistol- whipped is doing fine. Hopefully he'll get out of the hospital very soon -- Jabita (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Thank you, Tyler.

We just want to update everybody who is just joining us now on the very latest about this very grim morning at the Fulton County courthouse. Shortly after 9:00 this morning, as a judge, Judge Rowland Barnes, was preparing to hear some motions in a rape case, but before that, he was doing some civil matters. So there weren't a lot of people in the courtroom. And then at that point, that's when authorities believe that this suspect grabbed the gun of that sheriff's deputy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brian Nichols the suspect there, a rape suspect, was to be retried. This is a picture of the suspect, and I don't know -- not sure how accurate this picture is, but I'm hearing reports that he is bald or wearing his...

KAGAN: Our thanks to our affiliate WSB. We've been making great use of our number of affiliates here in the Atlanta area as only CNN can.

The search going on throughout Atlanta. This search looks like it's going well beyond downtown Atlanta for this man, Brian Nichols, a shooting and murder suspect at this point.

This man earlier today on trial for rape. What was expected to be the last day of the trial, pulls a gun from a sheriff's deputy inside the courtroom of Judge Rowland Barnes, shoots the judge dead, also shoots and kills the court reporter. That court reporter has not been identified.

From there, Brian Nichols took off and fled. And in the way shot and injured two sheriff's deputies. We're now getting word that at least one of those sheriff's deputies has died from his or her wounds at Grady Memorial Hospital.

And, in fact, any moment now we're expecting a live news conference from Grady Hospital. When that happens you will see that live right here on CNN.

Also, the search goes on for the last vehicle that he is believed to have taken, Brian Nichols. Let's put that license plate up again.

It's a Georgia license plate, tag 6584YN, belonging to an "Atlanta-Journal Constitution" feature reporter, longtime reporter at the AJC, Don O'Brien, who was just pulling into the parking garage, thought it was just going to be a regular Friday at work, was pistol- whipped. The suspect took his car.

Now, Don O'Brien is going to be OK. He's also gone to the hospital. He's going to be OK. He is giving statements to police.

And you can see what people on the freeways, the highways of Atlanta, Georgia, are seeing today. Police suspect, green Honda Accord. They're putting the word out for the license plate, the car and a description of the suspect.

Let's now go back to our affiliate -- or we're going to WXIA? Let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... the mayor. Lots of activity here, still looking for people who saw things, people who maybe came in contact with our suspect, Brian Nichols. And lots of people around have just come downtown who can't believe this, want to see this for themselves. A lot of bystanders that have gathered here. But right now, we are looking at several members of the Atlanta police force who, no doubt, are very upset about what has happened.

KAGAN: And so the search has been going on for at least 2.5 hours for this man. It is a lockdown situation that started with the courthouse, that makes sense, and the parking garage. A number of the streets of downtown Atlanta have been closed off and now this extends -- we're getting word that some of the stores along Peach Street, which is the main street that runs you down into downtown Atlanta, have shut their doors, and also 30 to 40 schools in the Atlanta area are on lockdown, and this extends an area well past where this took place in downtown Atlanta.

As you can see, the emotion there of people who worked in that courthouse, a live picture right now from outside the Fulton County Courthouse. At least one sheriff's deputy has been shot and killed, another one wounded. The judge, very well-known, very well-liked, in the legal community here in Atlanta.

Our Gary Tuchman is on the scene in downtown, joins us live now.

Gary?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, can you hear me right now?

KAGAN: I can hear you just fine, Gary.

TUCHMAN: OK, because there's a lot of commotion here at the scene right now, Daryn.

We can tell you that people here are still very tense after what happened this morning.

This behind me is the courthouse, the Fulton County Courthouse, where this happened, this old building right here. On the eighth floor is where the incident happened. Above the courthouse, you can see helicopters in the air right now. They are looking for the suspect, 33-year-old Brian Nichols, who is at-large, considered armed and dangerous. He's a man who at this point who at this point has absolutely nothing to lose after shooting four people inside this courthouse and outside the courthouse, three of whom are dead. It was the eighth floor of this courthouse where it happened.

This man was on trial for kidnapping and rape. There was a mistrial before, so this was the second time he was going on trial. He did not have a gun with him. What we are being told is he grabbed a gun from a deputy who was inside this eighth floor courtroom. He then shot the deputy with that gun.

Now, you may have thought, was there anyone else in the courtroom with a gun who could shoot him? We don't know the answer to that question. The fact is, no one shot him. He then held the courtroom hostage. After a short period of time, he shot and killed the judge who was presiding over the trial, Rowland Barnes. He then shot and killed a clerk in the courtroom and then he made his escape. Somehow he wound his way down the eight floors of that old courthouse, went down to the street and tried to carjack a vehicle. We are told he was unsuccessful, so then he went inside this parking garage. This is called the Underground Parking Garage, right in the heart of downtown Atlanta. He then pistol-whipped a reporter from the local paper here, the Atlanta Journal Constitution, said, get out of your car and hop in the trunk, I'm taking your car. The reporter, who was hurt, refused to go in the trunk; the gunman then took the car away and at he is now at-large here in the city of Atlanta, armed and dangerous as we said.

He's killed three people; one deputy's in the hospital. It's not clear which deputy was killed: the one who was inside the courtroom or the deputy here on the ground who was shot when he escaped from the courthouse. That's not clear, but right now it is a very tense situation as authorities are still looking for this man somewhere in the Atlanta metropolitan area.

As you can see, there is lots of action on the scene. We have to stay out of the streets or we'll get hit by some of these vehicles, but right now much of downtown Atlanta is closed.

KAGAN: All right, Gary, if you'll stay with us just a second. We might have some clarification, a bit, about which sheriff's deputy has been killed. We're expecting a news conference from Grady Memorial Hospital.

Meanwhile, we put up on the screen -- well, no, we'll go back to live pictures.

Let's talk about the search here, Gary. First, the difficulty of looking for somebody in downtown Atlanta, which can seem like a maze and easy to get lost, even when you think you know where you're going.

Gary, are -- all right, not able to hear Gary Tuchman, or he's not able to hear us.

But that report, very helpful to get a geographic sense of how this unfolded. The courthouse, across the street from the parking garage of Underground Atlanta. If you've visited Atlanta before, perhaps you're familiar with Underground, a popular destination for tourists, but this area the search is going on, spreading well beyond downtown Atlanta.

Perhaps we have that live picture once again from the highways, and the urgent signs that are being put up. There you go. If you're driving up interstate 75 or 85, this is what you see, the plea, the information going out. The police suspect: green Honda Accord, encouraging people to call 911.

This -- we can put the plate up again. This license plate belonging to the green Honda Accord. You heard Gary talk about this. Don O'Brien -- longtime, very longtime, well-known reporter for the AJC, the Atlanta Journal Constitution, just pulling up to work. He uses that garage to park his car to go to the newspaper whose offices are just across the street. Pistol-whipped, gave up his car. He is going to be fine and able to give a statement to police.

However, the news not as good for at least three people in this case. Judge Rowland Barnes, the superior court judge that was presiding over the rape trial of for the suspect Brian Nichols. He has been shot and killed. The court reporter, who has not been identified, that person has also been killed, and then one of the sheriff's deputies, dying from their wounds, from the shooting wounds, and then other shootings taking place as the suspect, Brian Nichols, fled the scene.

You're looking at live pictures from one of our affiliates, WXIA, that the police tape up in downtown Atlanta, a huge area that's been cordoned off because, at this point, two hours and 35 minutes, 2 hours and 35 minutes after the shooting took place, the suspect is still at large.

Let's see if we're going to get a statement here from one of these cameras.

No, does not look like that's going to happen.

OK, so let's recap for our viewers that are just joining us. This story started unfolding about 2 hours and 35 minutes ago. A rape trial taking place on the courtroom on the eighth floor of the Fulton County Superior Court building. Judge Rowland Barnes presiding over that case. This was the man on trial, Brian Nichols. This was the judge. This was the second time the case is being tried in two weeks. Last week when this rape trial took place, concerning an incident from back in August, the judge -- that -- that trial ended in a hung jury. So, this was the second take for that one, and this trial ended in tragedy.

One of the jurors in the case talked earlier about what it was like to be in this courtroom with Brian Nichols and with Judge Barnes. Let's listen in to that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's about 6'2, very athletic, African- American gentleman, very short hair.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What's his name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brian Nichols.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How do you spell it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know the spelling for it.

He -- demeanor? Very interactive with the jury, like keeping his eye on all of our eyes to see our reaction, everything. During the jury selection process as well, he was, like, you know, he had a background in criminal justice, I guess on his education, so he knew maybe what was going on.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So the trial started Tuesday?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Started Tuesday. Every time I -- every time when you looked up we saw him looking at our reactions, so it made us nervous, and we always kind of looked the other way.

Today was anticipated to be the last day, but it looked like it was going to carry on past today. We had just started the last witness for the prosecution. I think maybe we had one more detective to go and the defendant -- he hadn't spoken yet.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you expand on what made you nervous about him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, every time you looked up, he's staring at you in the eyes, so I always tried to look to whoever was testifying. It was just, you know -- we all kind of formed somewhat of an opinion on the outcome of it, but we hadn't heard him yet, and we want to hear him...

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How old was the woman...

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Would you let him finish?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One woman was 33, and I think he was 33, as well. UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You talked earlier --

KAGAN: One of the things that has been so interesting and so tragic about covering this story for the last 2 1/2 hours has been learning so quickly about Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes. I can't tell you the number of defense attorneys who have called in to talk about what it's been like to practice and present cases before this man. Well-respected, longtime criminal and civil superior court judge here in Atlanta, presiding over not this case but over a number of high-profile cases, including that of Atlanta Thrashers' hockey star Dany Heatley. That was an incident that took place back in 2003. It was a second-degree vehicular homicide case.

Let's join our affiliate WXIA and hear what they have to say.

UNIDENTIFIED WXIA REPORTER: Do you have any idea how it was that Mark Taylor (ph) got that information and was able to release that information?

UNIDENTIFIED WXIA REPORTER: I'm not sure, Jill. I talked with his spokeswoman just about an hour or so ago on another part of this, but, no, I -- at that time we didn't know that the lieutenant governor knew or would be releasing that Judge Barnes was dead, but I can find out.

UNIDENTIFIED WXIA REPORTER: Yes, apparently Taylor made that announcement in the state Senate, which, as you indicated earlier, is in the middle of a very, very busy day of last-minute work on bills that have to be passed today. And so that is going to be very interesting to see how that information -- how he got a hold of that information.

UNIDENTIFIED WXIA REPORTER: Well, he may have gotten confirmation from someone just as it was being released to other officials, and then he may have just gone to the Senate floor. I'm speculating here, but that is certainly part of what --

UNIDENTIFIED WXIA REPORTER: Sounds like somebody who worked there who was on the first floor earlier, and he said basically they were just pretty much locked down. They were told not to leave, so that may be what we're seeing, maybe some of the workers are now being allowed to leave, several hours after this happened, but I'm sure that investigators have searched and will continue to just search every corner of the building to make absolutely sure it is safe now.

UNIDENTIFIED WXIA REPORTER: Indeed, I'm sure they will certainly be in the coming days and weeks reviewing security procedures at the Fulton County Courthouse.

We are awaiting Fulton County sheriff Myron Freeman to brief us. We understand he is in the emergency room where doctors are practically working on one of two deputies that were shot in this shooting this morning.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And, of course, it was just last week that a deputy in the metro area was killed on the job so this has been a very tragic time for law enforcement.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Indeed, we -- you just commented, actually I believe just yesterday we were talking about that.

KAGAN: You heard it listening to our coverage from WSB there. We are standing by. We do expect a news conference from Grady Memorial Hospital, the hospital where the wounded were taken and when that news conference does begin we will certainly go to that live to get the latest. The latest numbers we do have: three dead, including the judge, superior court judge Rowland Barnes, A sheriff's deputy and the court reporter and then another sheriff's deputy being treated at the hospital.

Want to talk about the judge again, superior court judge Rowland Barnes. We've had a number of defense attorneys call in and talk about this man. I had a chance to talk with Drew Findling, a long- time defense attorney here in Atlanta. He's now joined me here on the set at CNN, its global headquarters, and once again, to remind our viewers, we're just really a couple blocks away from where this courthouse is, where the shooting took place and where the search is based at this time.

DREW FINDLING, ATTORNEY AND FRIEND OF JUDGE: That's correct.

KAGAN: First tell me about the man. I have to remark, after doing this a number of years, to have something like this happen, I've never had a situation where so many have called in so quickly to talk so glowingly about a single person.

FINDLING: Well, I think the thing that distinguishes Rowland Barnes is he's just a regular guy. Since I've been practicing for 21 years, we've moved from the regular old-time guys to the intellectuals that were in big firms, career prosecutors that get political appointments. And Rowland was a career magistrate. That is, he heard smaller cases in a little jurisdiction outside the central Atlanta area, but he really wanted to be clad with the black robe, permanently in superior court, and folks like myself, that try cases for a living, supported him because he earned the right to be a judge. He wanted to be a judge and became one, he got the appointment. And he really brought a layman's perspective to the bench.

KAGAN: And so whether we're hearing from defense attorneys or even from the jurors, so that the jurors -- these are people who wouldn't even have had that much interaction with him. They were really touched by him, about the command he had over this courtroom, over his courtroom, and the fairness of which he was conducting it.

FINDLING: Judge Barnes could care less what anybody thought of him. He was going to make a call -- you know, sometimes a lot of us would say, you know, he's kind of leaning towards the prosecution and then a couple of years ago he threw out one of the more notorious murder cases in Atlanta on a speedy trial issue. He made gutsy calls. Like I said, when you practice in front of Judge Barnes, it was like having the regular guy wearing the black robe making regular-guy, sound, practical decisions. KAGAN: Want to call on your expertise as a defense attorney to help us understand what was taking place with the trial. Not -- you were not involved in this trial with Brian Nichols, but as we've been reporting, Brian Nichols, the suspect currently at large that they're looking for, this was a man on trial for a long list of rape, kidnapping, an incident that took place back in August, I guess. But this was the rape trial that took place last week, ended in a hung jury. Here it was on trial again. That seems so unusual to have the retrial the week right after the last trial.

FINDLING: Entirely unusual. I would have to imagine that Judge Barnes said, hey, let's just try this thing again, the jury can't reach a decision and the attorneys agreed to go ahead and do it. To me, that's unorthodox. I can tell you if it was my case I would want the transcript done. I would want a time to think about it and try to maybe bring a resolution to the case short of a jury trial. What happened here is that they tried the case, the jury was apparently unable to reach a verdict and they cranked right up again the following Monday. Brought in a whole new panel of jurors, struck the jury and started over again.

And what happens is, it is a heightened sense of emotion. I mean, all the parties involved, whether they be Judge Barnes, whether they be the prosecutor, the defense attorney, the witnesses and obviously most importantly here, the defendant, live through the emotion of a jury trial, which is one of the most emotional experiences one can endure, and start it over again the following week. That's got to be very stressful for everybody involved.

KAGAN: Drew Findling, thank you for your expertise on jury trials and also on your thoughts about the judge. I want to bring in Charles Tanksley, a former state senator here in Georgia. Also, Mr. Senator, I understand, a friend of the family and a friend of the judge.

CHARLES TANKSLEY, FMR. STATE SENATOR: I knew the judge. I couldn't say that I was a close friends with him. And I had appeared in front of him in at least one case that I remember vividly.

KAGAN: And what could you tell us about that, that particular case?

TANKSLEY: I would have to just reiterate what other people are saying, that he was extremely fair, had, I think model temperament for a judge and a good knowledge of the law and was willing to rule consistent with it.

KAGAN: And do you know anything of his family? Can you tell us anything personally about him?

TANKSLEY: I do not know his family well or can tell you anything about him personally other than his good reputation with both the criminal bar and the civil trial bar here in Atlanta in Fulton County.

KAGAN: And Mr. Tanksley, as someone who's practiced and dealt with this court and this courthouse, what do you make of how things unfolded today?

TANKSLEY: It's about as shocking as it can get. I guess another connection I have is that my dad served in the same court for a period of about 30 years, and, of course, never experienced anything of this nature.

KAGAN: Yes, let's hope they never face this again in downtown Atlanta. Former state senator Charles Tanksley, thank you for calling in and thank you for the thoughts.

Our correspondent Gary Tuchman is on the street. He's on the scene as the search goes on for Brian Nichols. Let's go to Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, in addition to this being a tense scene, it's also an extremely sad scene. Just a few minutes ago, we saw several people walking behind me crying. We assume they are either family members or friends of some of the victims in this situation. This all happened around 9:00 this morning as a trial was about to start in the Fulton County Courthouse here in downtown Atlanta. It's that old building right behind me. Eighth floor of the courthouse.

You are not allowed to bring anything metal into this courthouse. There are metal detectors to prevent you from doing so. However, in many of the courtrooms for violent cases, there are deputies who carry guns. And what happened in this situation is that the man who was on trial for kidnapping and rape grabbed the deputy's gun from his holster and then shot him.

That man's name is 33-year-old Brian Nichols. You've seen his picture on TV, but they are passing his picture out to everybody here because they are desperate to catch him. He is on the loose. They feel he has absolutely nothing lose. He is 33 years old. It is not clear, according to police, what kind of vehicle he is in. He tried to carjack at least three different vehicles and they're not exactly sure what they're looking for. That's a big problem.

Police are pleading to us, pleading to the news media, not to report where this man lives or where his family members or friends live. And the reason for that is it's obviously places they will go to look for him. But what we're being told is he shot the deputy, then held the courtroom hostage. If there was another person, another deputy in the courtroom with a gun, he didn't use it. And then minutes later shot and killed a judge who was presiding over the case, that's Judge Rowland Barnes.

Judge Barnes is very well-known here in Fulton County, Georgia. He's presided over some high-profile cases including the case -- you hockey fans may be familiar with this -- of Dany Heatley, the Atlanta Thrashers hockey player who was in a car, got into an accident, killed a fellow player, pleaded guilty to vehicular homicide. And that was a case that this judge presided over.

So anyway, this gunmen shot the judge, then shot a clerk inside the courtroom. That judge and the clerk are both dead. He then came downstairs, eight floors through a stairwell on this street, this is Martin Luther King Boulevard in downtown Atlanta, and shot another deputy. Now one of the other deputies, either the one in the courtroom or the one on the ground, is also dead. The other one is in the hospital. Then he tried to carjack at least two vehicles, ultimately went in this parking lot, this is underground parking lot. If you've been to Atlanta this is right next door to the state capitol, right next door to the world of Coke, which is a major tourist draw in Atlanta.

He then tried to take a car and pistol whip the driver of the car, who happened to be a reporter for the "Atlanta Journal Constitution." He told that reporter to get into the trunk when he took the car away. The reporter very smartly and very bravely refused, and then we are told, it appears, that this gunman drove away in the car. But it's still not clear if he's in that vehicle. On

the highways here in Atlanta, Interstate 85 and 75, two major thoroughfares that run through the city, the electronic signs above are warning people to be on the lookout, but it doesn't say what kind of car or license plate because they're not exactly sure. The people here in the Atlanta metropolitan area are very nervous right now because there's a gunman with very little to lose who's on the loose, who shot four people and who's killed three. Daryn, back to you.

KAGAN: Gary Tuchman reporting live from downtown Atlanta. Another result of the search that goes on. Some 30 to 40 schools, elementary schools and high schools in the Atlanta area have been put on lockdown. Very concerning for parents here in this area. It means they can't get access to their kids.

I have school principal with me on the phone right, Dr. Christiana Otuwha. She is with Benteen Elementary. Dr. Otuwha, thank you for being with us.

CHRISTIANA OTUWHA, PRINCIPAL, BENTEEN ELEM. SCHOOL: Thank you.

KAGAN: Tell us about the phone call you got of putting your school in lockdown, please.

OTUWHA: We are right now on lockdown because of the incidents in the city. So all the doors are locked and the students are safe. We make sure that everybody -- we know the movements in and around the school at all times. And we are monitoring the school to make sure that the skids are safe.

KAGAN: That also means that parents are not allowed to come pick up their children. Is that right?

OTUWHA: They can come in, as long as they have I.D. and we know who they are. They can come in, into the school. We are allowed to talk with them and attend to them as they come into the school.

KAGAN: So if parents want to come pick up their kids, they're allowed to, and they can leave?

OTUWHA: The parents are allowed to come into the school, but if the parents can call me before they come to the school, I will assure them everything is OK at the school.

KAGAN: How much information were you given about the situation, and how does the system work when it's necessary for a school to go into lockdown, Dr. Otuwha?

OTUWHA: We were told that there was an incident, and we were told the essence of the incident, so we know what is going on around us.

KAGAN: As I said, you're with Benteen Elementary School. How close are you to downtown Atlanta?

OTUWHA: I would say about six, seven miles to downtown Atlanta.

KAGAN: In which direction?

OTUWHA: Going east.

KAGAN: And How many children at your school?

OTUWHA: Four hundred and fifteen.

KAGAN: Four hundred and fifteen, so really for the kids inside, they're calm, they're OK.

OTUWHA: Yes, they're OK. We are all aware of what's going on, the students are aware of what's going on. Everybody is going about their normal business in a calm way, but we know where the kids are. We are watching them at all times. There is adult supervision around the school.

KAGAN: All right, Dr. Christiana Otuwha at Benteen Elementary, about six miles away from downtown Los Angeles, one of about 40 schools here in the Atlanta area that has been put on lockdown as the search for the suspect goes on.

Dr. Otuwha, thank you. We're going let you go and let you attend to the children, the some-400 children in your school.

As we were saying this story begins with the suspect, Brian Nichols, on trial for rape charges. This was a trial that took place last week, ended up in a hung jury, so they did it again this week. Take a look at the long list of charges this man was facing before Judge Rowland Barnes: rape, false imprisonment, aggravated sodomy, burglary, aggravated assault with intent to rape, no driver's license and no insurance. Apparently this goes back to an incident in august when Brian Nichols was accused of kidnapping his girlfriend and raping her. This leading into the trial of last week and then the retrial this week.

In talking to a number of people in the courthouse it looked like this was going to be the last -- this was going to be the last day of this trial, and instead this is how it ended.

We know at least three dead. including the judge, Rowland Barnes, a court reporter, and at least one sheriff's deputy. You're now looking at live pictures. This is what people see as they north and south on the highways leading into and out of Atlanta. The search on for this car, the green Honda Accord with the license plate, the Georgia license plate there, you see it on your screen, 6584YN. That car and that license plate belonging to, interestingly enough, a features reporter for the "Atlanta Journal Constitution," pulled into the parking garage, which happens to be not only across the street from the newspaper, but also across the street from the courthouse. He was pistol whipped and demanded, the suspect did, that he give up his car and took off with that. It's believed that most likely that that's what Brian Nichols is fleeing in at this time.

Want to welcome here to us at our CNN headquarters B.J. Bernstein, a defense attorney. You've appeared a number of times before Judge Barnes.

B.J. BERNSTEIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I have. He -- this is just really a tragic loss for everybody in Atlanta and the bar. It's just really shocking.

KAGAN: Tell me about being before the judge and the kind of man that he was and how he commanded his courtroom.

BERNSTEIN: A really wonderful judge. Sometimes we hear the reputations of judges having tantrums or being very strict. He was somebody who handled himself where both parties got to have a say. Whichever side you were on you got to say your points, and then he made a decision, and usually it was a fair one.

KAGAN: Have you been in -- have you presented a case in this particular courtroom where it took place?

BERNSTEIN: I have.

KAGAN: So you can only too well imagine how things unfolded this morning.

BERNSTEIN: It had to be just -- it's unbelievable. I mean, the courtroom itself is fairly large, but everybody is going to be concentrated near the front. The judge would have been up front, the court reporter right in front of him, the lawyers and the defendant at the table, and then the two deputies also in the courtroom, so it's actually -- although the courtroom is large, the area that everyone is standing in is fairly small.

KAGAN: Now you weren't in the courtroom as it happened, but you know, as you're describing the layout, how would a defendant even get access to a deputy's gun? Where does the deputy stand in relation to where the defendant would be?

BERNSTEIN: Well, they're not right up on you. When you're on trial, they're standing there and they're close by. If someone is in custody and they're being brought out, there is a side room. They're brought out. And you're not in shackles. You're not handcuffed.

KAGAN: You're in civilian clothes, so that there's no sense of prejudice you might already be convicted. BERNSTEIN: Exactly. And so you're standing there and, you know, they're alert to sudden movements, and they're supposed to watch what's going on, but you've got to remember day in, day out, this is not the norm, and although they're on guard, you can never expect this.

KAGAN: In terms of security at this courthouse I've heard different things in talking to people this morning. Everything from this is a big cause for concern and people have been talking about this at this courthouse, or security here is like courthouses across the country and this could have happened anywhere.

BERNSTEIN: I think it goes with it could have happened anywhere. I mean, every courthouse in this area and at federal courthouses all over the country there's security like at the airport. You have to go through the metal detector. If you've set it off, they're going to take the wand on you, and you're going to put your bag on the conveyer belt.

Now it's not as strict as the airport, and clearly things are going to take a little longer to get in and out of courtrooms all over this courtroom after something like this has happened.

KAGAN: Absolutely. But the first question this morning was how would someone get a gun in? Clearly he didn't get a gun in. The gun was already there. I want to show people a live picture. We're standing by. We're waiting for a news conference that's expected to take place from Grady Memorial Hospital. We're expecting it's going to be with the county sheriff, Myron Freeman. This is the hospital where the sheriff's deputies were taken after they were shot. Not that far, just maybe, what would you say, B.J.? A miles, a couple of miles from where...

BERNSTEIN: A few miles.

KAGAN: Yes, just down the street pretty much from where the courthouse is. When that news conference begins, we expect to have the latest information on the search for the suspect. Also, the latest on the status of the victims here. We certainly will take that news conference live.

B.J., before I let you go, talk to me about -- more about -- I was talking with another defense attorney, which I thought was interesting, just how this unfolded, that there would be a trial last week where this man is on trial for rape, ends in a hung jury. That happens. But how unusual then to retry the case so quickly the next week?

BERNSTEIN: I've got to tell you, I've done it before. I've had it happen a couple of times.

KAGAN: How does that work?

BERNSTEIN: It's a little crazy for the litigants, because you don't have the transcripts ready for the trial, but the flip side of it is, you just did it, you know the facts, you know the issues, and a lot of times the judge says, let's just go ahead. We know we're going to have to have another trial, let's move on it.

KAGAN: And that's why you do it, because it's fresh, instead of putting it off, because otherwise to get a place on the calendar...

BERNSTEIN: Could take months. And if he's in jail, you know, the idea is you want to take the people who are in jail, their cases first.

KAGAN: So you've heard of it.

BERNSTEIN: I've done it.

KAGAN: You have done it. Another defense attorney talking to, saying it really -- it raises the stakes, and it raises the tension level in the courtroom. Would you agree or disagree?

BERNSTEIN: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, we have this happening. We just were fresh on the heels of what happened in Chicago, but the realities are over the years, the reason for the heightened security at every courthouse in the country is people come to court, they're upset, they're angry. They're talking about things very emotional -- child custody, criminal cases, divorces, contracts, and it makes people upset, and it -- there's always room for violence.

KAGAN: B.J. Bernstein, thanks for calling on the phone before and for stopping in and giving us your perspective, defense attorney B.J. Bernstein.

We're going to go ahead and recap what we've been following for the last two hours. It was about three hours ago that this story started to unfold in downtown Atlanta, in the courthouse, in the courtroom of superior court Judge Rowland Barnes. A rape trial was ongoing, expected to be the last day of the trial for Brian Nichols, when apparently according to reports Nichols pulled the gun on a sheriff's deputy, shot the deputy, shot the judge. And here you're looking at the long list of charges that this man was facing, shot and killed Judge Rowland Barnes, shot and killed the court reporter, who has not been identified, shot a sheriff's deputy, and then took off.

After that, a large number of carjackings taking place. We talked to a tow truck driver this morning. We also understand he took the car of an "Atlanta Journal Constitution" feature reporter Don O'Brien, pistol-whipped him and took off, and that's the car they're looking for right now, a green Honda Accord with a Georgia license plate.

Any minute now, we do expect a news conversation from Grady Memorial Hospital to take place with the sheriff of Fulton County, Myron Freeman, an update on the victims, an update on the search. We will bring you that live as soon as possible.

That's going to wrap up my coverage. Clearly the story ongoing. I'm Daryn Kagan. Thank you for being with me over the last two hours.

Our coverage continues as I pass it off to Wolf Blitzer in Washington, D.C. -- Wolf. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired March 11, 2005 - 10:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Perhaps he tried to carjack more than one vehicle, but at this point we're not sure. A search under way in Atlanta, Georgia at this hour.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN CO-ANCHOR: And our coverage continues now with Daryn Kagan. She is in Atlanta. She is going to take you through the rest of the morning and also get some more details on this breaking story.

Daryn, good morning.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to both of you.

And in fact, the story is unfolding just blocks away from us here at CNN's global headquarters in downtown Atlanta. The search going on, once again, for a suspect. To pick up our coverage from Bill and Soledad, using our affiliates, our many affiliates here in Atlanta. The search going on for a suspect.

This story began to unfold less than an hour ago. As we combine our reports of what we're hearing from our affiliates and from eyewitnesses, a man going to the eighth floor of the Fulton County Courthouse, pulling a gun from the deputy, according to witnesses there. And using that gun to shoot the deputy, the judge and perhaps the court reporter as well.

Getting word that that suspect fled the scene, took out of the courthouse and carjacked as many, some eyewitnesses are saying, as many as four different cars. It's possible the suspect is now going through downtown Atlanta on foot. And so the search goes on.

We're making great use of our affiliates. Let's listen in to some coverage now from our affiliate WSB.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've actually been in the chaos here for the last half hour or so. But there's been three or four different vehicles that they were looking for in the last bolo, the Be On the Lookout they gave was for a green Honda Accord. So that may be the vehicle that they're looking for right now.

Keep in mind after this suspect left, the suspect jumped in several different vehicles. So there may even be another one after this, a series of carjackings after the shooting.

And as Carol mentioned, Judge Barnes has been involved in several high profile cases here in the Fulton County Courthouse. We don't know what the case involving the suspect was. Apparently it was somebody in this courtroom who did wrestle a gun away from a Fulton County sheriff's deputy before this shooting occurred, fatally shooting the judge, a court reporter and apparently wounding a deputy.

And I'll tell you what. We have seen ambulances come and go from this area. It is unclear if anybody else has been injured either in the courthouse or any of these carjackings that immediately followed the shooting.

Again, this all happened around 9:00 this morning. It is a very busy time in the Fulton County Courthouse. The place was full of people when the shooting happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Russ, I'm wondering, we're getting reports from Grady that there were two sheriff's deputies transported there. We heard from Tyler, who was out at the scene, that he talked to somebody who heard some pops at a parking garage, where one of those carjackings might have happened.

Is it possible that there may have been some deputies, police, going after him and perhaps one might have been shot in that area?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. As you can imagine, it was a very confusing scene...

KAGAN: We're going to continue to go in and out of our affiliate coverage and make use of our own people. As I mentioned, the story is unfolding just a couple blocks from us here at CNN in downtown Atlanta.

CNN and Radio's Ed McCarthy is already at the scene and joins us by phone.

Ed, what can you tell us?

ED MCCARTHY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right now, they're bringing a stretcher in to the courthouse. And the scene here is one of chaos, as we have been told. We are learning that it's possible that a judge has been killed. A clerk of the court has been shot and also a sheriff's deputy. This woman that I have with me right now who does not want to be identified was at the scene. And she can tell you a little bit more.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm standing at the corner of Pryor and Martin Luther King Boulevard. I heard shots. I looked to my left outside the courthouse and saw a man shooting. At that point I got scared. Ran in the other direction. Deputies were running around everywhere. They told me to leave the scene because it was believed that the suspect had run into the parking garage at underground.

MCCARTHY: What we can tell you right now is that the search continues for this suspect. Helicopters are hovering above, trying to get a better view from the sky. And also the area is just one right now of chaos, as they are trying to find this suspect and trying to deal with the wounded. KAGAN: Ed McCarthy from CNN Radio. Ed, thank you. We will get back to you. We will cut you loose and let you go gather some more information.

Meanwhile, this story is unfolding very quickly. It was just about an hour ago that this incident began, when the suspect went into this courtroom on the eighth floor of the Fulton County Courthouse in downtown Atlanta. Grabbed a deputy's gun and shot the deputy and the judge. We have confirmed the judge is Judge Rowland Barnes. Officials say he was killed in that attack.

This is a file video of the judge, a judge that has handled many high profile cases here in the Atlanta area, including the case of Atlanta Thrashers hockey star Danny Heatley. He was accused of manslaughter in the 2003 car crash that killed his teammate and friend Dan Snyder.

We have on the phone with us right now B.J. Bernstein, a defense attorney here in Atlanta who has appeared before Judge Barnes many times.

B.J., thanks for calling in.

B.J. BERSTEIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, ATLANTA: I'm glad to be talking to you. I'm sad about what we have to be talking about. A true loss.

KAGAN: Absolutely understood. What can you tell us about Judge Barnes?

BERNSTEIN: Judge Barnes is extremely highly thought of in the legal community. He was a superior court judge here in Atlanta at the Superior Court of Fulton County. That's obviously the main county in the city of Atlanta and the surroundings. He presided over both criminal and civil matters. The criminal matters that he would hear would be felony criminal matters. And then all kinds of civil lawsuits divorces, all of those matters.

KAGAN: So it could have been any number of people who would be appearing in his courtroom.

BERNSTEIN: Absolutely. Every type of person. Every type of case. And the thing about him is no matter who you were or what you were presenting, this is a man who would let you have your say in court and then try to rule fairly.

KAGAN: B.J., obviously you weren't in the courtroom when this happened yet you've appeared as a defense attorney in front of Judge Barnes and have been practicing here for some amount of time. Explain to us how something like this could have unfolded in this courtroom?

BERNSTEIN: As the reports are coming, it is starting to make more sense. Because as you enter the Fulton County Courthouse or any courthouse for that matter now, you enter with airport-like security. You have to go through metal detectors. You have to put your bag through the screening device. So the idea that an outside gun could get in was difficult to believe. When you enter the courtroom, there is usually two deputies assigned to that courtroom who are armed, who are there in the courtroom paying attention to what's going on. The judge is up on the bench. The court reporter would be sitting up front. And the parties would be on two tables but in close proximity to all the people that are going on there.

So the only thing I can imagine is that someone would have had to have moved very quickly and suddenly to catch one of the deputies off guard in order to remove his weapon.

KAGAN: This is a second case of judge or judge's family being subject to violence over the last week. This is not the type of thing, I would think, that you normally think about when you go to present a case.

BERNSTEIN: No, except for it is a reality of life now that we do have that kind of security at courtrooms. I mean over the years, there have been enough incidents. You have to remember, that when people go to court, they're extremely upset. It's because there's a dispute for the most part, whether it is over a civil matter, over a divorce, child support, something criminal.

A lot is usually on the line. So emotions are high. And so that's why at a courthouse already there's heightened security, literally like what you see at the airport. So it isn't like authorities don't know that this is not a possibility. But when it does happen, it's always shocking.

KAGAN: All right. B.J. Bernstein, defense attorney here in Atlanta. Thank you for especially your thoughts on Judge Rowland Barnes, the first confirmed victim in the shooting taking place in downtown Atlanta.

A superior court judge, as B.J. Bernstein was saying well respected, well liked by the legal community here.

We are using our affiliates here in Atlanta. And we're going to check in with affiliate WSB, listen to what they're covering right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...1971. He is a black male. He is 34 years old. He is 6'1" tall, approximately 210 pounds. Again, the suspect's name is Brian Nichols. This is the man that allegedly shot multiple people on the eighth floor of the Fulton County Courthouse. I have unconfirmed reports that he shot another person as he fled the courthouse outside Pryor Street and Martin Luther King Jr.

As we told you earlier, Brian Nichols apparently attempted to carjack several cars. He is still on the loose. And authorities confirm for me that he is 34 years old, he is 6'1" tall. He is 210 pounds. He is a black male. Again, his name is Brian Nichols. And we're going to continue working this and give you more details as they come to us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dale, real quickly, are you getting any information on why he might have been in court today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have reports from law enforcement officers who tell me that there could have been a struggle for a gun on the eighth floor of the courthouse. I do not know at this time why he was in court. But I can tell you that outside law enforcement officers are not allowed to bring guns into the Fulton County Courthouse. The only people allowed to have guns inside the courthouse are the Fulton County sheriff's deputies who patrol the courts.

So if authorities tell me that it's likely that he wrestled a gun away from a deputy and fired multiple times on the eighth floor, that is the logical means by which he would acquire a gun. Again, Carol, the suspect's name Brian Nichols, 34 years old. 6'1", 210 pounds.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Well, thank you very much, Dale. And that does confirm the information we're getting that it did begin in a courtroom...

KAGAN: All right. We're going to go ahead and take the information that we're getting from one affiliate and use the resources of another. From our affiliate WAGA here in Atlanta, we have a picture of the suspect and we have the information from WSB. His name, Brian Nichols, as we're just hearing reported, 34 years old, 6'1", 210 pounds, African-American male.

What's not clear at this point is what business he would have had in the Fulton County Courthouse on a day like today. Why he would be in Judge Barnes' court.

But what we do know is that this is the man that police are looking for in the streets of downtown Atlanta right now. Reports saying that he is suspected of coming into the courtroom of Judge Rowland Barnes, grabbing a deputy's gun, shooting the deputy, shooting and killing Judge Rowland Barnes and perhaps a court reporter. A number of those victims are being transported to Grady Memorial Hospital, that's a county hospital not too far away from where the shooting took place.

But then reports also say that this suspect Brian Nichols fled the courthouse and went on a carjacking spree taking as many as four different cars, perhaps abandoning the last car and then going and perhaps fleeing the streets of Atlanta on foot.

Let's go ahead, we're getting more information on the potential victims in this case. Let's go to WSB.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That there are three people that have been transported here. And that seems to correlate with reports we are getting that a deputy -- two deputies and a clerk were shot at the courthouse and around the courthouse. We are hearing that the clerk was shot at close range and in critical condition here.

We did see at least two ambulances escorted by police motorcycles come flying through this avenue here, which behind me is the emergency room intake area. If you look around here, you can see security is pretty high. They're not letting us too close to the area. We've seen a number of police cars, marked and unmarked, sheriff's deputy and City of Atlanta Police come in here. Presumably they are high ranking command staff, who are checking in on the status of these people who are injured.

But right now unconfirmed reports that there are three people who have been transported here to the Grady Hospital emergency intake area.

KAGAN: And this shooting taking place just about an hour and 12 minutes ago, 9:00 a.m. Eastern. That would be just as court business would be getting started here in Atlanta, Georgia.

It turns out a reporter for local affiliate WAGA was inside the courthouse when the shooting took place. Let's listen to that report.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just found out -- I just spoke to attorney Renee Rockwell. Now, she was on the way to that courtroom, she says, when this all happened. She says the suspect was on trial for rape, that he got the deputy's gun and held the courtroom hostage, she says. Now, she was outside when this happened. So she was not in there, but she heard the yelling and the screaming.

She ran the other direction, she says, but people around -- that came out of that -- that were standing, rather, by the courtroom say the courtroom was held hostage. The man that was on trial, the man that was on trial got the deputy's gun. He was on trial for rape, she says.

And according to Renee Rockwell, the attorney again that was on the way to the judge's courtroom, that this suspect had a mistrial last week. And then he was returning to the courtroom today that he was incarcerated. And somehow he got that deputy's gun and held that courtroom hostage and then opened fire. Again, that's from Renee Rockwell, an attorney that was on her way to the judge's courtroom when all this went down.

And we're going to stay out here and bring you more when we have it.

KAGAN: We're hearing as many as three victims, some being transported to the local hospital. One, the judge in the case, Rowland Barnes, we confirm has been shot dead. A very well known judge here in the Atlanta area, high profile cases coming before him.

We have with us on the phone right now, Lindley Jones, a trial attorney here in Atlanta. And Ms. Jones, you know, you've known Judge Barnes?

LINDLEY JONES, TRIAL ATTORNEY, ATLANTA: Yes, I've known Judge Barnes for many years.

KAGAN: What can you tell us about the man, please?

JONES: Judge Barnes was an outstanding judge. He's not only known for being a fair jurist and running a very organized courtroom, but he is well loved among the lawyers that practice in front of him and the judges that work with him.

He is one of the judges that is very active in the community. He interacts with the local lawyers a lot, not only from the bench but also supports bar activities and whatnot. And this is a tremendous loss for us.

KAGAN: So you've appeared before Judge Barnes many times?

JONES: Yes.

KAGAN: I think one question a lot of people were asking this morning is how could someone get a gun in the courthouse. It appears the suspect grabbed the gun from a sheriff's deputy. Another question would be how could the suspect get away? How difficult would it be to get from the eighth floor of this courtroom down outside of the courthouse?

JONES: Well, it's a lot of stairs to climb or an elevator ride down, of course. And then they have to get out past an area where there's security right there. And apparently the communication about what had happened must have prevented them from being able to capture the suspect on his way out of the courthouse.

But this is really unheard of. Fulton County security wouldn't allow you to be able to bring a gun into that building under any circumstances. So this nuke of a suspect being able to get a gun away from a deputy is really shocking. And it's just about the only way that something like this could possibly occur.

KAGAN: And then as the search goes on for Brian Nichols through down town Atlanta, anybody who is familiar with downtown Atlanta, and Lindley, you can comment on, it's kind of a concrete jungle. It's a series of buildings, and parking garages, and one-way streets. It would be rather easy for someone to disappear.

JONES: Well, that's true. And there are lots of parking decks and nooks and crannies to disappear into. But apparently, and I know that the facts are still somewhat vague right now, but he may have been chased through the actual courthouse parking deck.

You know, it is a concrete jungle, but it is an enclosed area. There aren't a lot of ways to get out of downtown once the police are alerted and aware that you're trying to get out of downtown. So I'm hoping and thinking that it is just a matter of time before they actually do catch him.

I talked to one of my officemates. Bill Cromwell is an Atlanta lawyer who is in lockdown right now in the Fulton County Courthouse. So they did lock down the Fulton County Courthouse and many other government buildings downtown to keep him from entering those facilities and those building to keep more people from getting hurt.

KAGAN: OK. Lindley, thank you very much for that information.

A news conference just getting started. We're going to listen in with our affiliate WSB. SGT. CLARENCE HUBER: ... courthouse, 136 Pryor Street, who shot four individuals, a judge, two deputies and a court clerk. Now, I'm not going to release the names of these individuals at this particular time. We do have family members en route here. We want to make sure they're notified first of their conditions. And I'll provide those updates to you at a later time. All right? But at this particular time, all four victims are at Grady Memorial Hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, how did Brian Nichols, a suspect know any of the people involved?

HUBER: Again, I don't want to get into the details over that. We have investigations going on right now. I haven't been privileged to a lot of information. I'm just out here to confirm that we do have four individuals at the Fulton County Courthouse, 136 building, who were shot this morning.

(CROSSTALK)

HUBER: We do have a search for the suspect. I do have color photos of him and we e-mailed pictures to your stations. And the suspect is at large right now. He is identified as Brian Nichols.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did he get the gun?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you know about Nichols' criminal history?

HUBER: Again, we're looking into see exactly what happened. I don't have a whole lot of information for you at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why was Nichols in court?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: he was here at the Fulton County Courthouse this morning. That's all I can tell you.

(CROSSTALK)

HUBER: I am not going to confirm, I am not going to confirm any information about the four individuals who were shot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, can you tell us exactly where the shooting occurred?

HUBER: It happened at the 136-court building. That's tall information I'm going to release on that right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there a shooting outside as well?

HUBER: I have no information about a shooting outside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was a deputy's weapon involved in this shooting?

HUBER: Again, I don't have a whole lot of information for you right now. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell us exactly what time it happened?

HUBER: It happened early this morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's an update from Sergeant Clarence Huber of the Fulton County Sheriff's...

KAGAN: That sheriff's deputy not releasing a lot of information. But we can take what he's given us and what we've been able to take from our other sources and tell you what we know so far.

About an hour and 20 minutes ago, a man, a suspect who has been identified as Brian Nichols walks into a courtroom on the eighth floor of the Fulton County Courthouse in downtown Atlanta. According to reports, grabs a deputy's gun, shoots the judge in the courtroom dead. And that judge has been identified as Judge Rowland Barnes.

Brian Nichols, after the shooting took place, as we understand, fled the courthouse and went through a number of carjackings.

We have with us on the phone right now somebody who says he was one of those carjacking victims.

Deronte Franklin, are you with me right now?

DERONTE FRANKLIN, CARJACKING VICTIM: Yes. I am.

KAGAN: DeRonte, tell me what happened to you this morning?

FRANKLIN: I was sitting at the corner of Peachtree and Walls when the SUV come around the corner sliding. And by that time, about two or three police came up. They were looking for the vehicle. And I pointed to them that he went in the parking deck.

As I was showing them where he went, he was still sitting there. And he took off and broke the gate on up through the parking deck. So as I came back to my truck to sit in my truck, the rest of the police unit came up asking where he was at? And I pointed over to that way. As they went up in the deck to try to locate the subject, he came back down with the handgun and told me to get out of the truck. And I told him he can have the truck. And I walked away.

KAGAN: What did you think? I mean you clearly knew who you were looking at that point?

FRANKLIN: Yes.

KAGAN: And he did have a gun at that time?

FRANKLIN: Yes, he did.

KAGAN: And other than pointing the gun at you, did he threaten you in any way?

FRANKLIN: No. He just pointed the gun at me and told me to get out of the truck. And I told him he could have it. He went northbound on Peachtree, and made a left up the one-way street on Walter's.

KAGAN: Not a typical day at the office for you, DeRonte?

FRANKLIN: Say that again.

KAGAN: Not a usual day at work for you, what you expected when you came to work today?

FRANKLIN: Oh, no. I was expecting tow calls today.

KAGAN: Did you -- when this was all unfolding, you saw the police looking for this suspect, did you realize what had taken place before, that the shooting had taken place at the courthouse?

FRANKLIN: No, I didn't. I just thought it was a regular car chase.

KAGAN: And were you able to then contact police officers and then they took off after in the direction that you pointed?

FRANKLIN: Yes.

KAGAN: All right. But you are safe. You're OK. You did the smart thing. You handed over your truck.

FRANKLIN: Exactly. I'm here at the office.

KAGAN: All right. Deronte Franklin, thank you for that.

Once again, the word we're getting about the suspect Brian Nichols, that there were a number of carjackings that took place. We just listened to that tow truck driver, DeRonte Franklin.

This man is Brian Nichols, 34 years old, African-American, 210 pounds, 6'1", 34 years old. We're getting word the reason he was in the courthouse and before Judge Rowland Barnes, was he had been facing rape charges that had been a mistrial. But for some reason, there was another appearance he was supposed to have today. And that's what brought him to this courthouse. That according to reports from our local affiliates.

Our Ed McCarthy of CNN Radio is on the scene in downtown Atlanta, and has another eyewitness to talk with.

Ed, go ahead.

MCCARTHY: Yes. What we are learning now is that there were more shots outside the courthouse, as the suspect was getting away.

And this young lady that I have here is a staff attorney for the superior court. She prefers not to give her name.

But let me just ask her what you saw and what you heard when you were outside the courthouse. You were in a dangerous situation. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I was standing at the corner of Pryor and Martin Luther King when I heard shots. I looked. I saw a man shooting towards the courthouse. It appeared that he shot somebody who was down at that point. I got scared. Ran in the other direction and was told by deputies who were running around the scene that I needed to get away from the scene.

Once I got to the front of the courthouse, I was told that it appears that the suspect had run into the parking garage and had one of the investigators held at gunpoint. But that's what I heard.

MCCARTHY: At this particular point, the situation is very fluid. They're obviously looking for the suspect. The area is cordoned off. And just a short time ago, a stretcher was brought up the front steps of the Fulton County Courthouse. That's an indication that they'll be tending to one of the wounded inside the courthouse.

Of course, we had heard that a judge was shot and killed. And the situation now is one where authorities are focusing on trying to get the suspect and tending to the wounded also who were shot. Four shot apparently here in downtown Atlanta, the Fulton County Courthouse. Usually a very, very busy area.

And right now there's a very somber mood prevailing here, as people stand outside, court employees, and also people who have been in the area that have heard what's gone on.

KAGAN: Ed, as we understand it, that courthouse is still in lockdown. So if people were inside there when this took place about an hour and 20 minutes ago, they are still there.

MCCARTHY: They are still inside. Some people were able to get outside. Some of the employees, they're standing on the steps right now and waiting to find out what is happening here. Many people here, trying to get more information as to what has transpired here. But obviously it's a very sad scene here, especially for the people who are in close contact with these shooting victims every day here at this very busy courthouse area in downtown Atlanta.

KAGAN: And once again -- Ed, if you stay with me here. One of the victims that we confirmed that has been killed, shot and killed just about an hour and 20 minutes ago, Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes. We've talked to a number of attorneys that have appeared before this judge. He handles both criminal and civil matters. Everyone that has called in, very complimentary of this judge saying he was a fair judge and handled his courtroom very well.

The search, Ed, for Brian Nichols appears to be focused right now on downtown Atlanta. As you were explaining, the first part of the story takes place in the courthouse, in the courtroom. The second part, as he comes out with the gun, still having a gun. So clearly this man is still armed and a number of carjackings taking place.

All right. We're going to get Ed back.

But right now, we want to bring in Felicia Humphries. Felicia, I understand you were at the scene when this took place.

FELICIA HUMPHRIES, EYEWITNESS: Yes, ma'am, I was.

KAGAN: And what can you tell us? Where were you and what did you see?

HUMPHRIES: I was exactly -- I was coming through the doors of the courtroom on the opposite side. When I was coming down, I was told to clear the building. So I just went to the corner and stood at the corner against the building.

And as I did that, you know, I just turned. I just turned to my side and I saw that there was a man laying on the ground. So at this point, police officers and sheriffs are running from everywhere. Then I said to myself oh, my God. There's the one -- I didn't know what was going on.

KAGAN: So you weren't familiar at that point that the shoot had already taken place on the eighth floor?

HUMPHRIES: Yes. Yes. I was outside. So evidently, the sheriff must have been running towards the door and he got shot. Because I came and stood right there and I turned to look and he was right there. I mean just laying on the ground.

KAGAN: The person laying on the ground appeared to be a sheriff's deputy or a civilian?

HUMPHRIES: Yes. Yes. The dep -- the sheriff's deputy. The sheriff's deputy, the one that was shot right outside the building. Right outside the building.

KAGAN: So you never saw the suspect, though.

HUMPHRIES: No. No. I never saw the suspect. I just saw the sheriff just laying there and all the officers coming to assist the sheriff. And then the police cars and things started pulling up. And you know, we stayed this for a while because he was just laying there, just motionless.

KAGAN: But it appears that four of the victims have been transported to Grady Memorial Hospital.

Felicia Humphries, thank you for that.

I want to go back and make use of our affiliates coverage, WAGA, W-A-G-A filing this report. Let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... injured, but what we are hearing now from district attorney sources and from sources here in the courthouse is that this are a total of five victims now. Five victims. Three of them dead and their bodies literally being processed as we speak inside the courtroom on the eighth floor. This is in Judge Barnes' courtroom. And that the two deputies that were injured were injured as this suspect was trying to escape from the Fulton County Courthouse complex. And that is the latest.

And as you can imagine, we continue to be on lockdown held in this particular courtroom where we've been at for quite some time, ever since this really started. I can tell you at the beginning of the day, our murder trial started up. Seemed normal.

They immediately, immediately put everyone in lockdown, removed the jurors, removed all of the -- moved the suspect in this particular case. Have them all kept in a safe location and make sure that nobody is allowed to leave, the particular offices, the courtrooms, wherever they are in they are to remain there.

And we're being held here literally at gunpoint, with people with guns drawn to make sure that we don't leave to keep us safe, just in case the suspect should return.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mark, can you give us an idea how many people are there with you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, in this particular courtroom I'm in -- I can count them, two, four, six, about 10 or 15 people. You have the attorneys, you have the defense attorneys, you have the prosecuting attorneys. You have a couple of -- one or two bailiffs. You have got our court reporters. And you've got the families of both the victim, as well as the families of the suspects, all sitting here. And we've been sitting here for quite some time.

Needless to say, this trial has been put on hold. The judge we have not seen at all since this first happened. As soon as this happened, the judge jumped off the bench and went back into what we are presumed is a secure location and we...

KAGAN: There's a live picture of downtown Atlanta. We're getting close to the bottom of the hour. So let's go ahead for our viewers that are just joining us, recapping the story that is unfolding right now.

Downtown Atlanta, just blocks away from us here at CNN, a story that began just an hour and a half ago at the Fulton County Courthouse in the courtroom of Judge Rowland Barnes. Apparently, a man, the suspect has been identified as Brian Nichols walked into this courthouse on the eighth floor. Pulled a deputy's gun, according to reports, and started shooting.

Shot the judge. Judge Rowland Barnes, officials tell us, a superior court judge has been killed. Apparently, as the suspect, Brian Nichols tried to escape two sheriff's deputies were also injured in that. They've been transported to Grady Memorial Hospital, the nearby hospital. And also we're getting reports that the court reporter in the courtroom was shot as well.

The story goes on after Brian Nichols escapes from the Fulton County Courthouse, as he tries to flee, we're getting reports of a number of carjackings that took place. At this point, it's unclear if Brian Nichols is fleeing on foot or is in yet another car. And that search going on through downtown Atlanta right now, as we cover the story.

Our Randi Kay has made it to the scene.

And tell us what you know, Randi.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, I can tell you right now, I'm on the corner of Pryor and Martin Luther King Jr. Street here in downtown Atlanta, right in front of the courthouse.

Just to set the scene for you, there are hundreds of people out here on the street, including law enforcement, ATF, Fulton County sheriff's deputies, there are a number of ambulances parked outside here. We've seen a couple of gurneys already being taken inside the building.

Just confirming what you are saying, we are able to confirm for you that the Fulton County Judge Rowland Barnes was shot and killed by a man in his courtroom this morning. We talked to a woman who was just in his courtroom a couple of days ago, showing up for jury duty. She was back here this morning, and when she was leaving the parking garage, having parked her car, heading to the courthouse, she heard some shots fired. She saw that sheriff's deputy laying on the sidewalk outside the courthouse here. We spoke with her. We also spoke with a man who is a friend of the daughter of Judge Barnes, and he said the family has been notified and is also confirming for us the death of Judge Rowland Barnes here this morning.

Apparently this man grabbed the gun from the deputy here and started firing, then took off in one of the cars here, but made his way out of the courthouse, got into one car through a car carjacking, apparently, and then left that car at the top of the hill here, and jumped into another car. So, apparently there was more than one carjacking outside the courthouse here.

I can tell you that they've closed the streets her. The courthouse is apparently on lockdown except for some of the emergency personnel making their way inside. Quite a scene out here. Hundreds of people out here on the streets wanting to get some answers and wanting this man to be apprehended for their own safety -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And as that search goes on, a lot of questions about how this could have happened in this courthouse in downtown Atlanta.

We have with us on the phone -- and Randi, thank you for that report -- have with us on the phone right now Renee Rockwell, an attorney, and Renee, I'm told you were in the courtroom, in Judge Barnes courtroom, when the shooting took place?

RENEE ROCKWELL, ATLANTA DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, ma'am. That's not correct.

I was on my way to the courtroom when the deputies were running through the hall. I saw a deputy's hat on the floor in the hallway. The deputies were running with their guns drawn, and they said, get in the courtroom, get out of the way, and one deputy just grabbed me and pulled me in the elevator with him that was going down to the front, they were going out of the courthouse.

While we were in the elevator, one of the deputies, female deputies, started crying and said that the defendant took the deputy's gun and held the courtroom hostage and shot the judge. And I just kept saying, what judge, what judge was it? Well, apparently, it was Judge Rowland Barnes who is presently trying a case right now where an individual -- this individual who was very disturbed -- was on trial for raping and kidnapping his fiancee.

Now, my understanding was that he had gone to his fiancee's house a couple of days earlier with an ice chest and lunch meat and bread, and he was planning on spending her birthday with her, which was two days away. Anyway, he kept her hostage, raped her, sodomized her. The trial was last week. The trial was a hung jury, which means they could not decide on the outcome. So they retried the case again this week. I spoke with the defense attorney -- his name is Barry Hastings (ph) -- I said, how is Gail (ph) doing? A girlfriend of mine is trying the case. Her name is Gail Abramson (ph). He said that the attorney is doing an excellent job -- not that they didn't do an excellent job last week, but usually on retrials, when they try the case a second time, the state does an excellent job because they've seen where any problems are.

My understanding after the trial last week, when the trial was hung, that the defense attorney and the prosecutor went in there and spoke with the jury. A lot of times you can get a lot of information from the jury when that happens.

Anyway, on the retrial, this individual, who is on trial, is a prisoner at the Fulton County jail. So therefore they dress them out just like regular citizens, but they have to transport these individuals back and forth to the courthouse, and they try to make them look like every other citizen. They dress them up in regular clothes. And my understanding is that the deputy -- that some deputy -- he took some deputy's gun, held the courtroom hostage...

KAGAN: Well, Renee, let me ask you a question here, because in that case, and you're a defense attorney, so I'm interested in how the process works. If someone is staying at the Fulton County Jail and is brought over and dressed in civilian clothes, are they not shackled in any way? They wouldn't have handcuffs or anything?

ROCKWELL: You know what? I don't know if he was -- I don't know where exactly it happened, but at some point you have to sit the defendant right next to the defense attorney and there's a deputy in the courtroom and the deputy has a gun. I'm surprised it hasn't happened before. I mean, this is a guy that's going down, if he gets convicted, for life plus. I mean, I'm just surprised it hasn't happened before.

KAGAN: Well, very sad that it's happened today.

And Renee, I want to thank you. That's defense attorney Renee Rockwell calling in. Tries a number of cases there in that courthouse. This is a story very much going on. The search on for Brian Nichols. Let's put his picture up again and tell you what we know about him: 34 years old, 6'1, 210 pounds, African-American male. Renee Rockwell confirming what we heard earlier reports, that this man had been on trial for rape charges last week. There had been a mistrial or hung jury, as that defense attorney was saying, and that trial was going to start again this week. And she was explaining that the stakes very high for Brian Nichols, because he, if convicted, could go to jail for life.

As the story unfolds -- very quickly, we've already confirmed that the victim, one of the victims, Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes shot and killed about an hour and a half ago in his own courtroom.

And I have on the phone with me, Drew Findling. Drew, I'm being told that you're a good friend of Judge Barnes.

DREW FINDLING: Hello?

KAGAN: Yes. Drew, Finely, you are with us?

FINDLING: Yes. It's Findling.

KAGAN: Findling, I'm sorry.

You're a good friend of Judge Barnes?

FINDLING: Well, I've practiced in front of Judge Barnes my entire career.

KAGAN: So, you're a defense attorney here in Atlanta?

FINDLING: Criminal defense attorney, and Judge Barnes brings a unique perspective to the bench. He was a career magistrate, and that is, he would hear preliminary hearings, bond hearings, kind of lower cases.

We have a statute in Georgia where superior court judges that hear felonies could decimate somebody like him, and Judge Barnes was just incredibly ambitious to eventually be clad with the black robe. He fulfilled that goal and became a member of the bench through many times trying to get there.

KAGAN: And in this position as a superior court judge, I'm told he would hear criminal and civil cases. A number of high profile cases, including the Dany Heatley case last year.

FINDLING: Absolutely, and the unique thing about Judge Barnes is he enjoyed the trial of cases. A lot of judges want to move cases along, are not real interested in being tied down to a jury trial. Judge Barnes loved jury trials, loved interactions with jurors, loved highly charged trials, controversy. You know, he's a big, imposing, physical man. He brought -- I kind of, I always called him the layman judge, didn't speak with big fancy words. He'd kind of crawl in the jury box, had a real appeal to the common person. KAGAN: Drew Findling, thank you for your comments on Judge Barnes today.

We have a number of defense attorneys calling in. Apparently, Judge Barnes a very popular man, a well-respected man, a well-known man, as well, shot and killed in his courtroom earlier today, about an hour and forty minutes ago.

The search for the suspect, Brian Nichols, who was on trial in this courtroom on rape charges -- that search still goes on through downtown Atlanta at this moment.

I want to welcome on the phone Dennis Scheib, another criminal defense attorney.

Dennis, I understand that you've had a chance to talk with Judge Barnes' family already.

DENNIS SCHEIB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hello?

KAGAN: Dennis, are you with me? It's Daryn Kagan on CNN.

You've had a chance to talk with Judge Barnes' family?

SCHEIB: No, I actually spoke to the daughter about another matter, talking to her about her school. She called me this morning probably about, actually, a quarter till 8:00, and we talked about -- she was wanting to go to law school, and I just made a comment about, you want to be like your dad, a lawyer or a judge, and she said yes. Because Kiley (ph) used to work for me, and so I know the judge very well. I've eaten with him before and gone into his chambers, actually last week, and talked to him.

KAGAN: Well, tell us about the man, because too often in a situations like this the focus is on the suspect. But, tell us about the man that clearly is going to be mourned, not just by the legal community but by friends and family.

SCHEIB: Well, it's a great loss to lose a man like that. I listened to Drew a few minute ago, and he's right. I mean, I've known Judge Barnes for 20 years. I first did a civil case with him about 20 years ago, and he's just like the common man, very smart, he has great patience on the bench. And a lawyer could go in or D.A. could go in and talk to him and ask him questions, legal questions. He was like a professor sometimes.

But he was one of the nicest people you would ever want to meet, and he was such a respectful person on the bench. He's not like some judges I've seen that were just so arrogant to deal with, and so pompous. He was not like that. He would speak to people with great respect. Yes, sir, no, sir, and he had such patience, and he ruled, and he thought about what he did. And he is going to be sorely missed. I mean, he's one of the finest people and finest judges I've ever been before.

KAGAN: Dennis, let's talk about what unfolded at this courthouse here today. First question people have, how would someone get a gun in there? But apparently the answer is the suspect grabbed the gun from a deputy. Another defense attorney I talked with earlier said she's surprised something like this hasn't happened before.

SCHEIB: I've gone over this and mentioned this to people and actually one of the candidates who ran for sheriff was going to go ahead and have me teach the deputies arrest techniques and procedures, because I've been in martial arts for 40 years. I trained with the Japanese police in the '70s. And I was a deputy sheriff and a police officer for 13 years. The security in the Fulton County Courthouse, the way they deal with prisoners is absolutely atrocious. And I've said and I've written articles to "Daily Report," I've spoken to judges, spoken to D.A.s, I've spoken to deputies up there. And said this was going to happen at some point in time.

KAGAN: Dennis, hold that thought. I'm going to come back to you in just a minute. I want to get some updated information from WSB, one of our affiliates. Let's listen in.

JIM STRICKLAND, WSB REPORTER: ... or Brian Nichols. There's a fire engine there. And again, further up to the west along this street, there are several ambulances that are -- that have been parked and are just standing by as well.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER, WSB: Jim, I would imagine if they know they're already dealing with a suspect that shot and killed a judge and court reporter and two deputies, they know how dangerous he is. There's got to be tremendous concern among law enforcement as they try to approach this guy when they do find him.

STRICKLAND: Well, you have to believe that his mindset, the mindset of anyone who is the subject of this brand of manhunt, would be that of desperation. You have to wonder what he was thinking when he took it upon himself to take that deputy's gun and start firing in the courthouse in the first place. He can't be thinking that he's going to get away with it, although what else could he be doing except for running around there in the desperate hope that he can elude police for as long as possible?

We have been able to find some background on a man named Brian Nichols through our sources back at Channel 2 Action News. We believe he has ties to the state of Florida. We haven't absolutely confirmed it yet. But we have found a Brian Nichols matching his birth date with several ties to the state of Florida as well. I'm sure authorities know that by now and are acting upon it if they see fit.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER, WSB: All right, thank you very much for that updated information, Jim Strickland. Now we want to go back to Channel 2's Ross Cavitt live with the scene with some new information from there -- Ross.

ROSS CAVITT, WSB REPORTER: Well, we're still just hearing more details about what happened up inside the eighth floor of the Fulton County Courthouse this morning. Apparently Judge Barnes was about to hear a series of motions involving the suspect in this case, Brian Nichols. But before that, had some business to attend to when it came to a civil matter. The Fulton County District Attorney's people were not even in the courtroom yet. There was some discussion apparently going on about that civil matter in the courtroom before Nichols' case was called. That's when he apparently then grabbed the deputy's gun and opened fire.

It is unclear at this point what triggered this act of violence, whether he just simply freaked out before his case was supposed to come back to trial. Apparently he was on trial last week, but that ended up in a hung jury and this was going to be a retrial that would start shortly. And then we're going to hear some motions that preceded the trial in the courtroom after the judge was done with the civil hearing. But again, there was a civil case that was being heard in that courtroom in the moments before the gunshots rang out.

After that, apparently the suspect then made his way down from the eighth floor and came out the Central Avenue exit, the main exit for the Fulton County Courthouse and ran toward Martin Luther King with another Fulton County sheriff's deputy in hot pursuit. Once the suspect then crossed Central on MLK, heading toward a parking garage, turned and fired according to witnesses we talked to, five times at the pursuing deputy, hitting that deputy multiple times on the corner immediately behind me here.

That deputy and the three others inside the courthouse were rushed immediately to Grady Hospital. It's only a few blocks away. They were there within moments. And again, as you heard, we have confirmed that the judge and the court reporter that was in the courtroom have died. The deputy in critical condition and a fourth deputy has been wounded.

Again, agents with the FBI and GBI have arrived here at the courthouse to help begin this investigation along with the Fulton County sheriff's deputies, Atlanta police, even there's some capital police here, as well, and state of Georgia police on the scene, helping in the investigation and the search for the suspect Brian Nichols. Carol, back to you.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER, WSB: Ross, I don't know if you know the answer...

KAGAN: We're going to jump in here to our affiliate coverage. Getting some new information there from that reporter, from Ron Cavitt, downtown Atlanta. Search going on right now an hour and 45 minutes past when the shooting took place on the eighth floor of the Fulton County Courthouse.

The suspect, Brian Nichols, a 34-year-old African American man on trial on rape charges. Apparently in the courthouse of Judge Roland -- in the courtroom of Judge Roland Barnes, pulled a gun from a deputy, used that judge to shoot the judge, who was killed, and we're also hearing from that report with Ross Cavitt, the court reporter there was killed as well. That person has not been identified. Two deputies in the search and the chase for Brian Nichols have been wounded. They've been taken to the local county hospital. I have on the phone with me right now Evelyn Parker. She is a court reporter here in Fulton County as well. And Evelyn, you were not in this courtroom but you have fears that you know the court reporter who was there.

EVELYN PARKER, FULTON COUNTY COURT REPORTER: Well, yes, I know all the court reporters that work in this building. And Julie Brandow (ph) is Judge Barnes' regular court reporter and she's my best friend. I don't know if it was her or if she had a substitute, but I'm trying to find out. And do you have any idea, the description of the court reporter?

KAGAN: We have not heard anything more, Evelyn, I'm sorry to tell you. That it was just the court reporter who was in the courtroom at the time. Were you in the courthouse when the shooting took place?

PARKER: No, ma'am, I was walking down Central Avenue from the Coke Pavilion, you know, walking down...

KAGAN: So you were on your way to work?

PARKER: I was on my way to the courthouse. And I was at the corner of Central and MLK and deputies were running out with their guns drawn towards the underground parking deck. And there was a deputy down on the sidewalk. He might have been the one that was shot multiple times when the guy turned around or whatever. And then the deputies were running towards the parking deck. And then it just became very chaotic with people pouring out of the courthouse and a lot of police cars and sirens and ambulances and helicopters. And we were told that the perpetrator was in the parking deck and we were all, you know, made to cross the sidewalk and come over closer to the Coke Pavilion. But I am just...

KAGAN: I can only imagine. When did you get word that this took place in Judge Barnes' courtroom?

PARKER: Well, it was like 9:00 when I was walking down the street and I've been standing out here ever since. And some attorneys that I know came out and I kept saying has anybody heard who got shot? And they said, the court reporter, and that's when I just lost it. And, you know, I'm just trying to confirm because there's so many stories.

KAGAN: Right. And a lot going on and I'm sure a lot swirling around. Evelyn, I imagine that you're really concerned with trying to get in touch with Julie or her family to find out...

PARKER: Yes.

KAGAN: So what we're going to do, we're going to let you go. Because that's most important right now. So, thank you for calling in. I wish I had more information that we could share with you. All we know is that the judge was killed, Judge Barnes, and the court reporter, but I do not have a name on the court reporter. But thank you for calling in and our thoughts are with you as you try to find news of your best friend. Evelyn Parker, a court reporter in that same courthouse, calling in.

Our Randi Kaye, our CNN correspondent, is on the scene in downtown Atlanta right now and joins us -- Randi?

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, I can tell you the very latest from here. We just spoke with a juror by the names of James Bailey (ph) here. He has been on this trial involving Mr. Nichols since Tuesday in Judge Barnes' courtroom. He said the defendant was charged with kidnapping, sodomy, a hostage situation, in possession of a machine gun, a handgun and marijuana. He said, in describing Judge Barnes, he described him as the nicest man he has ever encountered. He described the court clerk who was also involved, the court reporter, as baking cookies and brownies for the jurors. A very special woman. In fact, they brought her a thank you card today because today was expected to be the last day of the trial.

In describing Mr. Nichols, they said that -- he said -- the juror described him as making him nervous. He said he would sit at the defense table and stare down the jury. As I said, today was supposed to be the last day. I asked him about any friction between Mr. Nichols and Judge Barnes. He said that the defendant was always very respectful of the judge. He described him as very interactive with the jury, making a lot of faces and staring them down. But once again today was expected to be the last day of the trial, but the jurors never did make it inside the courtroom -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Our Randi Kaye there on the streets of downtown Atlanta. Once again, more about this suspect. And Randi, that helps us fill in some holes there. On trial in Judge Roland Barnes' courtroom, a second try at a rape trial. The first one last week ending in a hung jury. They were going for the second time today. Brian Nichols, 34 years old, the suspect, 6'1", 210 pounds, African-American male, on trial for rape. The search for him still going on at this hour through downtown Atlanta.

Let's now hear from our affiliate WAGA.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was attempting to park, waiting to get my ticket, and as I was getting my ticket, I thought I heard shots, but didn't really pay it that much attention, went on to make my turn to go up the ramp, and I saw a gentleman run by, didn't really pay him a lot of attention, went on to start going up the ramp, and started hearing just a ton of sirens. As I got up to the top and got parked, I went and looked over the wall of the parking garage, and I saw the sheriff laying on the ground, and that's kind of when I started connecting everything. You know, I heard shots, I see this guy run by. And at that point, you start to panic - you don't know whether to leave out of the garage or get in your car and leave.

There were several of us standing there not knowing really what to do, so two ladies and I made a decision just to get in the garage elevator and get out of here. And when we got down the sheriff was there with a gun trained on the elevator with the doors opened, scared us to death, rushed us out, and we got out and saw the sheriff being worked on.

WAGA REPORTER: Now, the sheriff, was he pointing a gun at you thinking maybe you were the suspect when the doors opened to the elevator?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think so. I think so. Yes, I think so. They didn't know where he was, and I'm pretty sure they thought that he could be in the elevator.

WAGA REPORTER: Now what did he look like? Did he have a gun? Did you see a gun on him?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I didn't see anything other than a guy running. I could you only that it was a black guy. I couldn't really tell -- I know the clothes were rather, I think, dark, but other than that, I really paid him no attention. He just ran by the car. And I really couldn't swear that that was the shooter, but it all connects to the point that it probably was.

WAGA REPORTER: OK, and at that point, that's when you and your friend decided that you were going to get out, but clearly, you are still here, could not leave.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, we can't leave. They won't let us back to the garage.

WAGA REPORTER: Did they tell you any indication as to when you can go back and get your car?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, they haven't. They haven't. I thought by now they would. I don't know if they're still investigating inside or what, but they haven't told us anything.

WAGA REPORTER: Did you hear any screaming, or just the gunshots?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just the gunshots.

WAGA REPORTER: And how many did you hear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I couldn't really tell you. I mean, there was more than three, I would tell you. I've heard five, but I can't tell you I've heard five. And it was really multiple, the reason I really didn't -- wasn't sure that they were were gunshots, because in the garage it almost sounded. It was almost somebody dropping something on a cement floor almost, you know. It didn't really sound like gunshots, but I I mean, kind of thought they were because of the repetition behind it.

WAGA REPORTER: And when you came out of the parking garage here, you say you saw the deputy that was being worked on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he was on the -- they were taking him, putting him in the backseat of a sheriff's car.

(END VIDEOTAPE) KAGAN: And this is a story still very much in progress at this hour here in downtown Atlanta. The search is on for the suspect Brian Nichols, believed to have gone into the courthouse, the Fulton County courthouse, almost about two hours ago, taking a deputy's gun, shooting the judge, Rowland Barnes dead, also shooting the court reporter dead in that courtroom, and then fleeing.

The next chapter of this story takes place outside the courtroom. You were just hearing that eyewitness talk about it, leaving the courthouse, carjacking a number of cars and perhaps fleeing on foot. We have another eyewitness account of what took place just outside the courthouse.

Let's listen to that.

UNIDENTIFIED WSB REPORTER: That's right, Carol.

A number of city and county officials rushing down here to Grady Hospital to check on the status of these people who were injured and shot and killed, and it has been a very active area down here at the emergency room at Grady Hospital. A lot of high security here at the same time. One person who has not reported down here to the hospital that we understand has been pistol whipped is the "AJC" reporter who -- the "AJC," "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution" confirms with me was carjacked and pistol whipped down near the courthouse, Don O'Brien (ph), who has been with the "AJC" for at least 20 years is reportedly talking to the police right now. He's in the gray Honda Accord. That is his car, and now believed to be the car being driven by the suspect, and police are looking for that person right now.

But Don O'Brien appears to be from what we understand OK talking to police, but we're told on his way down here to Grady to be checked out.

UNIDENTIFIED WSB ANCHOR: I think what might have happened, because we've heard that there were several carjacking attempts.

KAGAN: That's Alan Wong (ph) from our affiliate WSB, giving us some information that we're also starting to hear off the wires, that another victim in this case is a features reporter for the local paper, "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution," apparently just pulling up to the courthouse, when the suspect Brian Nichols, pistol whipped him to get his green Honda Accord, and that is one of the cars that apparently police have lookout for, Green Honda Accord with the Georgia license plate 6584YN. That features reporter has been taken down to Grady Memorial hospital where he is being treated. He apparently will be OK and is able to give statements to police.

Our Randi Kaye standing by.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The search is still certainly under way, Daryn. We're making our way around to the other side of the courthouse here in downtown Atlanta. The streets are blocked off. There are a number of ATF agents and Fulton County sheriff's deputies here on the scene. We had told you a little bit earlier in this hour that a couple of gurneys had been taken inside. We still haven't seen them come back outside. We're just walking up the hill here, where there's a couple of ambulances where there is some activity. I'm making my way over there to try and find out the very latest for you.

We have spoke within that one juror who was a part of that trial that Mr. Nichols was involved in, and he (INAUDIBLE) the judge as the kindest man he ever met. He did say that the defendant made the jury very uncomfortable.

Now I am at the scene here on the back side of the courthouse from where we just were. And this is a car that officers are going through with their gloves. They seem to be taking some samples of some things inside, and that's all I can tell you right now. They're not letting anybody very close to the car, but the media is here. Apparently in this car there is a victim, and that's all we can tell you right now. We're not sure at this point if it's related or not.

Well, Randi, what we're going to do, we're going to cut you loose and let you go and find out more about what's taking place at the search of that particular car.

You bring up a good point in that when this shooting took place at 9:00 a.m. Eastern, court well under way in downtown Atlanta, and the courthouse full, parking garage full when the suspect fled and the search started for the suspect. Everything in that area went on lockdown. They closed streets. They locked down the parking garage. They locked down the courthouse. So people who were there, as we understand it, are still there. Can't get out of the courthouse, and are not allowed to get their car out of the parking garage at this time.

We continue our coverage now. Marc Teichner a reporter with WAGA brings us this.

MARK TEICHNER, WAGA REPORTER: We do continue on lockdown. We have not gotten any new information. The last we got from our sources in the district attorney's office mentioned that there were three people deceased in the courtroom up on the eighth floor.

And to set the scene for folks, as soon as this occurred, I quickly rushed up to the eighth floor, and you saw an awful lot of deputies running around. You saw paramedics with emergency equipment running around. You saw a lot of people crying and hugging.

And eventually they, you know, cleared that area, as soon as they were able to get things under some sense of control. And then they immediately cleared that area, that eighth floor, and told me to go back down to a safer area, then no sooner did I get down to this particular floor when we were put into lockdown, the entire courthouse.

KAGAN: And from there we're going to go to our affiliate WSB. Let's listen in to their coverage.

UNIDENTIFIED WSB REPORTER: ... the folk museum, the underground, if you're familiar with that general area. Very busy area in the middle of the day like this. We also believe that a second deputy was shot in a parking garage that is diagonal from the courthouse, perhaps when the suspect was trying to carjack a getaway car. We heard from Channel 2's Alan Wong that the deputies are both in very serious condition at Grady Memorial Hospital.

But the sad news to report that two people were shot dead in the courtroom, Judge Rowland Barnes and the court reporter. We do not yet have her name as they try to notify family.

Judge Rowland Barnes had presided over a number of high-profile cases and everyday case over many years, as we heard from a woman who just called who was a prospective juror on the rape case on Monday. The rape charges that Brian Nichols is facing. She was just there for a brief time, but she said he seemed to have a good sense of humor, that Judge Barnes made them feel very comfortable as jurors. And she said it was her first time there, so you know how scary it can be when you walk into that big courthouse, and you don't know what to expect.

But that's what we've been hearing from various judges, that he really helped people feel at ease, that he understood that this was a very uncomfortable situation for a lot of people, to go into a courtroom for everyday people, and we have just heard nothing, but very, very positive things about him, as a person and as a fair-minded judge. We're still, as we said, waiting to get more information about the court reporter.

KAGAN: And as we get close to the top of the hour. I want to welcome our viewers that are just joining us. I'm Daryn Kagan at CNN global headquarters in downtown Atlanta. Just blocks away from where this breaking story continues to develop.

Exactly two hours ago a suspect in a courthouse, the eighth floor of the Fulton County Courthouse, Brian Nichols -- there's his picture. This is who police are looking for at this moment: an African-American male, 6'1", 34 years old, 210 pounds, a rape suspect on trial in the courtroom of Judge Rowland Barnes, a superior court judge, longtime judge here in Atlanta.

Reports say that Brian Nichols pulled the gun from a sheriff's deputy inside this courthouse, shot and killed Judge Barnes, also shot and killed the court reporter inside that courtroom. That court reporter has not been identified at this point.

From there, the suspect, Brian Nichols, took off, made it outside of the courthouse, and apparently a number of carjackings took place. And the search, as you look at these live pictures from downtown Atlanta, continues. Much of downtown Atlanta in lockdown at this time, whether it's the courthouse where the shooting took place or the streets or the parking garage.

This -- let's take a look at this. This is what they believe could be the latest car that the suspect is in. It's a green Honda Accord. The license plate, 6584YN.

They believe this is the car of a features reporter for "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution," the local paper, who happened to be pulling up to this courthouse as this took place. Reports say that the suspect beat the reporter, took his car and took off. That reporter, along with two sheriff's deputies, have been taken to Grady Memorial Hospital, which is very close by to this courthouse.

We have a number of our own correspondents on the scene. We're also making great use of our local affiliates here in Atlanta.

Want to bring in my colleague, Gary Tuchman, who is standing by in downtown Atlanta -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, I'm standing on the courthouse steps where this happened. It's a very tense and uncomfortable atmosphere here in downtown Atlanta.

Atlanta is a big city, but not big enough where everyone doesn't often get paranoid when something like this happens, when there's someone who is being looked for who is armed. Right now people are being very careful with what they're doing.

You were just talking about the car they're looking for. There have been reports of three different vehicles at points that they're looking for. One of them was a red jeep. And to give you an idea of the paranoia, as you, Daryn, I live in the Atlanta area and I was going to drive my own vehicle into the downtown area to the story, but I drive a red jeep. And I decided it would be completely unsafe in this atmosphere right now where everyone is rather paranoid at this point to drive a red jeep near this courthouse.

But as of right now, we are being told that this was just a horrible, nightmarish event where a trial was about to start in a rape case and this man accused of rape, Brian Nichols, who is 33 years old -- he was born in December of 1971, so he just turned 33 a few months ago -- but he actually grabbed the gun from the deputy standing in the court. To get into this courthouse you need to go through a metal detector. You're not allowed to bring in weapons.

But there are weapons in courtrooms from the deputies. But he grabbed the deputy's gun, shot the deputy, held the courtroom hostage, and then ultimately shot the judge, shot a court reporter, and then escaped from the eighth floor down to the street, and then shot another deputy who was on the street before carjacking a vehicle and getting away. And as of now, this man, armed, dangerous, is still being looked for -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right, Gary. We'll get back to you.

We also have our Randi Kaye on the scene.

Randi, what can you add? When we last checked in with you, you were by a car police were searching. Randi, are you with us? Randi Kaye?

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I am, Daryn.

KAGAN: The latest you can bring us, please. KAYE: OK, Daryn. The very latest right now is they are still searching for Brian Nichols. There is still a crowd gathered outside the Fulton County courthouse, and still 50 to 100 or so gathered here on the street, including media and curious onlookers.

The latest that we know right now is ATF still on the scene. Sheriff's deputies still inside. Gurneys that had gone into the building earlier still have not come out.

We did report, as you know, that this man had apparently grabbed the gun from a sheriff's deputy inside the courtroom. We want to let you know that apparently some courts around the state of Georgia, like Cobb County, for example, have safeguards on those guns that will actually disarm. That was not the case in this situation here this morning.

We can tell you that we did talk with one of the jurors who was involved in this case with Brian Nichols who was accused of rape, kidnapping, sodomy, hostage-taking, possession of a machinegun, a handgun and marijuana, and he described Nichols in the courtroom as staring the jury down. He described him as making him nervous. They were expecting today would be the last day of this trial, and unfortunately, very sadly, this is how it ended.

He described Judge Barnes as the nicest man he has ever encountered. He told us today that he was bringing a card -- in fact, the entire jury was bringing a card to the court reporter who was also shot and killed this morning, bringing a card because she had baked them cookies and brownies. And they wanted to bring her a card this morning to say thank you.

In terms of any friction between the defendant and the suspect now in this case and the judge, he said, the juror I spoke with this morning, said apparently no friction, that Nichols was apparently very respectful of Judge Barnes. Daryn, that's the latest from here.

KAGAN: All right. Randi Kaye, thank you for that.

Want to join our affiliate WAGA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... presumably, once they figure out everything is in fact safe. So that's the latest here in the courthouse at this particular moment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'll check back in with you in a moment. In the meantime, let's get over to Morse Diggs. He is at Grady Memorial Hospital with the latest developments from there -- Moe.

MORSE DIGGS, REPORTER: Yes, we want to see if Denise Simpson has any further word for us.

No? Nothing new? OK.

Denise Simpson, the PIO with Grady, just passed us. She's got nothing new she can tell us. We did moments ago speak to one of the chaplains. Fulton County has chaplains here. Warren Henry gave us some reaction here. Let's roll that tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIGGS: Your role is to...

WARREN HENRY, FULTON COUNTY CHAPLAIN: I'm the Fulton County chaplain.

DIGGS: And your role?

HENRY: At this time we assist each other. We comfort the whole county, everybody.

We even comfort you, because sometimes you know the victims. So we're here. I've got to go...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chaplain, what is going to be your duties down at the courthouse?

HENRY: Be there for anybody who needs consoling and strengthening. Just put our arms around each other.

Fulton County is a loving county, strong family. When things like this happen, the love comes from everywhere. So right now they just need to put our arms around each other and tell them we're going to make it.

DIGGS: Can you tell us what the mood is like...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIGGS: OK. We're back live now.

Word we have speaking to one of the judges who came by here and visited earlier is that one of the deputies, one of the two deputies here being treated here has died this morning from the gunshot wounds. Again, they are -- we're seeing what we presume to be family members coming in here, gathering. There's a chaplain inside as well, as you just heard, Warren Henry, saying that he's headed back over to the courthouse to try to comfort colleagues there in Fulton County, as well as family members.

So a very fluid scene here. Still awaiting word here on the status of the other deputy. I'm Morse Diggs reporting live from Grady.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, Morse. Thank you.

Again, we want to update you...

KAGAN: While we're getting that word from our affiliate, WAGA, we have not confirmed that. What we do know in terms of casualties in this, the judge, superior court Judge Rowland Barnes was shot and killed. The court reporter in the courtroom also killed. We do not have a name on the court reporter.

And we had heard that two sheriff's deputies were shot and taken to the hospital where Morse Diggs was reporting from. They were reporting that one of those deputies has died from those wounds. CNN has not confirmed that yet.

Let's get to -- let's go back to the idea of what Brian Nichols, the suspect, was doing in the courtroom in the first place. A 34- year-old man on trial for a long list of disturbing and violent charges, including rape and sodomy and kidnapping, an incident that happened last August.

He is accused of taking his then girlfriend, kidnapping her and raping her. First trial was last week, ended in a hung jury. They were going again this week when this shooting took place.

The victim, the shooting victim, superior court Judge Rowland Barnes, we've talked to a number of defense attorneys. This is a judge who's been on the bench here in Fulton County for a number of years, presiding over a number of high-profile cases. Probably the one that's going to be most recognizable to our national audience is that of Atlanta Thrashers hockey star Danny Heatley.

He received three years' probation after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor charge, vehicular -- vehicular homicide. That was in connection with a car crash back in 2003 that killed his Thrashers' teammate and friend Dan Snyder.

This trial that was taking place right now, the second trial of Brian Nichols. Of course a jury listening to that. One of the jurors on that case, James Bailey, had this to say just a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was about 6'2", very athletic. An African- American gentleman, very short hair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was his name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brian Nichols.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you spell it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know how to spell it.

He -- his demeanor, was very interactive with the jury. He was like keeping his eye on all of our eyes to see our reaction and everything during the jury selection process as well. He had a background in criminal justice I guess on the -- in his education. So he knew maybe what was going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the trial started Tuesday?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It started Tuesday. Every time -- every time he looked up, we saw him looking at our reaction. So it made us a little nervous, and we always kind of looked the other way. Today was anticipated to be the last day, but it looked like it was going to carry on past today. We had just heard the last witness for the prosecution. I think maybe we had one more detective to go. The defendant hadn't -- hadn't spoken yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you expand on what made you nervous about him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, every time you looked up he was staring at you in the eyes. So I tried to always look, you know, to whoever was testifying. I mean, it was just -- you know, we all kind of formed somewhat of an opinion on the outcome of it, but we hadn't heard from him, and we wanted to hear him...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old was the woman (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The woman was 33 and I think he was 33 as well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You talked earlier about...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: And so two parts of the story. The shooting taking place about two hours and 10 minutes ago. We know at least two people dead from that shooting, the judge and the court reporter, inside -- inside that courtroom on the eighth floor of the Fulton County courthouse.

Then the suspect, Brian Nichols, fleeing the courthouse. A number of carjackings taking place.

We're going to get to that in a moment, but because the suspect is still at large, there are also a number of lockdowns, including the courthouse. This is the Georgia license plate that they're looking for, a green Honda Accord. Including the courthouse, including the parking garage, the streets of downtown Atlanta, also we're getting word 40 schools in the area, Atlanta public schools, 40 public schools have gone into lockdown because of the suspect that is armed -- who is armed and still on the run in downtown Atlanta.

Now, as the story unfolded, as the suspect left the courthouse and tried to carjack a number of cars, one of the people he came in contact with, we're hearing, is a features reporter for "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution," the local paper here. Have on the phone with me right now Mary Dugenske, a spokesperson for the paper.

Mary, what can you tell me?

MARY DUGENSKE, "ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION": We can tell you that our reporter, features reporter, Don O'Brien, was carjacked, his car was taken this morning by the suspect. Don is in good condition and is cooperating with the police.

KAGAN: It sounds like there was somewhat of a struggle, though.

DUGENSKE: There was. He was -- he was hit with the butt of the gun over his left eye. He ran from the attacker and he managed to escape.

KAGAN: So is that Don's car that they're looking for?

DUGENSKE: It is. The green Accord is Don's car.

KAGAN: And have you had a chance to talk with Don at all?

DUGENSKE: I have not personally, but other AJC employees have and he's in good condition.

KAGAN: He went -- he's at the hospital and being treated, and he's going to be OK?

DUGENSKE: He'll be fine.

KAGAN: OK. What was he doing -- was he going to cover a story? He just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?

DUGENSKE: That is pretty much it. He was arriving for work this morning and was pulling into his normal parking garage when he encountered the suspect.

KAGAN: All right. So "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution" getting roped into the story. But that is encouraging news that longtime reporter -- he's been with the paper for like 20 years.

DUGENSKE: More than that, yes. Yes.

KAGAN: Well, the byline well known to readers of your papers.

DUGENSKE: Most definitely.

KAGAN: Yes. Don O'Brien, a features reporter for the paper, beaten by the suspect, pistol-whipped, took his gun. Maybe we can put the license plate up once again.

All right. And we're getting an update now from -- well, let's do this first. Here's the Georgia tag. This is Don O'Brien, the features reporter for "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution." This is the license plate on his car, 6584YN, a Georgia license plate, a green Honda Accord.

We had a chance to talk with a tow truck driver earlier today who said that the suspect had taken his truck. So apparently going from car to truck to truck, or truck to car to car, and still on the loose. A number of buildings, also 40 schools, public schools in Atlanta on lockdown as the search for the suspect takes place.

We have an update on the casualty list here. We have been reporting that the judge in the case, Rowland Barnes, was shot and killed, also the court reporter who has not been identified has been killed. We heard two sheriff's deputies were shot and injured. We're now hearing that three people are dead in this case, and we had heard -- we had heard those earlier reports from -- from one of the local reporters saying that he had heard one of the sheriff's deputies had died at Grady Member Hospital from his wounds. It appears that we were able to confirm that now.

So now three dead, one injured. And in addition to that, a reporter for the local paper injured as well. And the search still goes on for Brian Nichols, the suspect.

I mentioned this tow truck driver. He called in, we talked to him earlier. Let's listen to that interview once again.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we were sitting at the corner of Peach Street and Walls (ph) when the SUV came around the corner sliding. And by that time about two or three police came up.

They were looking for the vehicle, and I pointed to them that he went in the parking deck. As I was showing them where he went, he was still sitting there. And he took off and broke the gate on up through the parking deck.

So as I came back to my truck to sit in my truck, the rest of the police just came up and asked where he was at. And I pointed over to that way. As they went up in the deck to try to locate the subject, he came back down with a handgun and told me to get out of the truck. And I told him he could have the truck, and I walked away.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KAGAN: That was Ronte Franklin (ph), the tow truck driver who encountered the suspect earlier today.

Let's talk again about the victim here, Judge Rowland Barnes, a superior court judge. We have had any number of defense attorneys call in and talk about this judge, well loved and well respected man. Well known here in Atlanta for handling a number of criminal and civil cases, high-profile cases, including the Atlanta Thrashers case.

The Atlanta Thrashers hockey star Danny Heatley involved in the vehicular homicide case. We have Danny Heatley's attorney, Manny Arrora, with me on the phone right now.

Manny, thank you for calling in.

MANNY ARRORA, ATTORNEY: Thank you.

KAGAN: What can you tell us about appearing before Judge Barnes and about this man?

ARRORA: Judge Barnes is probably the greatest judge I've ever been in front of, because I used to be assigned to his courtroom when I was an assistant district attorney there. Judge Barnes was the one that would always mentor us. After seven years of prosecuting, he was the one that encouraged me to go into private practice, and I pretty much owe my whole career for him.

He bends over backwards for defendants like no one I've ever seen to be fair. He just goes completely out of his way to make sure he's being fair. And this is just horrible that somebody could do this to him.

KAGAN: You certainly saw that in the Danny Heatley case. For people who weren't familiar with that, a tragic case. Danny behind the wheel in 2003 during this car crash. His friend, Dan Snyder, killed in that.

The Snyder family came forward, did not want your client to go to jail. You had to have a compassionate judge that was going to work with both sides in order to come to a resolution in this case.

ARRORA: That's right. And it didn't matter if it's high profile or just a small drug case. He really took the time to do what he thought was right.

He didn't worry about the political ramifications or if somebody would be unhappy with him. He always did what he thought was right. He respected the lawyers, he treated us fabulously. Like I said, I owe my entire career to him for encouraging me to go out into private practice and put me where I am today.

KAGAN: What more can you tell us about Judge Barnes? Do you know about him personally? We talked to one defense attorney who said he had been speaking with his daughter. So we know he had at least one daughter.

ARRORA: Right. I mean, he's got a close family. And he had a lot of friends around here.

I know he liked to go to Florida for his vacations. He had a very nice condo out there that he liked to travel to.

And he just -- he enjoyed life. He enjoyed what he did. And it's just, you know, unfortunate that this has happened. It's a horrible loss for our county.

KAGAN: What about the situation as it unfolded? For as long as you've worked in Fulton County and been down there both, as you're saying, as a prosecutor and a defense attorney, how does something like this take place? How does a defendant in a rape trial get his hands on a deputy's gun?

ARRORA: It must have just been a freak thing, because generally when defendants come there they're usually either bound by the wrists or the feet. However, during a trial, so there's not a negative inference against the defendant, they don't have them bound. And you just have a couple of deputies standing near the defendant so nothing happens.

But clearly he must have gotten the better of one of the deputies, gotten the gun. And, you know, this whole thing happened.

KAGAN: Was there a concern among defense attorneys or just among people who worked in that courthouse about security at the Fulton County courthouse?

ARRORA: Well, security has been just as good there as any other courthouse or federal court that we go to. I mean, they're very thorough about checking it out. And unfortunately, somehow he must have gotten the jump on one of the deputies and, you know, it's one of those things I suppose that everybody knows could happen, but you don't think about it.

People are trained. And I'm not really sure why -- you know, how he was able to get the gun away from the deputy.

KAGAN: Manny Arrora, longtime attorney here in Atlanta, Georgia, defense attorney for Danny Heatley. And it sounds like a great admirer of Judge Rowland Barnes.

Manny, thank you for your comments.

ARRORA: Thank you.

KAGAN: Once again, this story is still developing. We have a number of schools in lockdown. At least 40 schools in the Atlanta area in lockdown. That means the kids are in and the parents can't get to them. The search for the suspect under way, and we are going to go now to a report from Ross Cabot (ph) from our affiliate WAGA.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... in the courtroom on the eighth floor. We're told of the old section of the Fulton County courthouse in Judge Rowland Barnes' courtroom. At that time, there was a civil proceeding being held, but a suspect that has been identified as Brian Nichols during that civil proceeding before his case was supposed to come up -- he's potentially faced a retrial on a rape charge -- grabbed a deputy's gun and opened fire, killing Judge Rowland Barnes, killing the court reporter in the courtroom, and killing a deputy, as well.

Now, the two deputies were wounded in the initial moments after the shooting. One inside the building, another on the street right behind me here. As the deputy was chasing suspect Nichols across Martin Luther King into a parking garage, the suspect turned and fired multiple times, as many as five times back at the deputy, felling him on the corner here at Martin Luther King and Central Avenue. Paramedics were on the scene within moments conducting CPR, but apparently in vain as one deputy has been gun killed, along with the judge and the court reporter.

In the moments after that, then the suspect Nichols went into the parking garage and allegedly pistol-whipped a newspaper reporter, carjacked or attempted to carjack his car. Then drove down an undetermined amount of distance where he carjacked a wrecker and then possibly a couple other cars. There have been a few lookouts that police have been following in the hours since this happened that include a gray Mercury Sable, a green Honda Accord, and the latest we heard is a green Isuzu Trooper, all vehicles that suspect Brian Nichols might be driving at this particular time.

Since this happened at 9:00, the mood has swung from shock, unbelief now, to extreme sorrow over the death of the three people here at the Fulton County courthouse. The GBI and FBI have arrived on the scene to help local authorities try to figure out exactly what happened and hunt down their suspect.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And we continue to make the most use of our large number of local affiliates here in Atlanta. Let's listen in now to WXIA

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Jackson Elementary, Jones Elementary, Finch Elementary, Oglethorpe Elementary, Evansville Elementary, Peyton Forest Elementary, E. Rivers Elementary, Garden Hills Elementary, Smith Elementary...

KAGAN: WXIA now going through the large number of local schools that are in lockdown, of course of concern to parents in the area.

I'm getting some e-mail from some friends here that the area that they have locked down schools quite extensive, going well beyond the reach just of downtown Atlanta. And once again, that means parents are not allowed to get to the school and the children not allowed to leave.

Want to go ahead -- as I was mentioning before, Judge Barnes, Judge Rowland Barnes, longtime superior court judge. A lot of high- profile cases, but a lot of not so high-profile cases either.

A longtime judge, well respected. It's been fascinating this morning how many defense attorneys have called in to offer not just their condolences, but their thoughts about this man who was so well respected and did such an excellent job on the bench. Judge Rowland Barnes killed today in his own courtroom.

Let's listen to one defense attorney who called in earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was about to walk into the courtroom. I was actually on the other side of the -- on the Central Avenue side, and deputies were running everywhere. There was a deputy's hat that was on the -- on the -- on the floor on the ground, and they said, "Get in the courtroom or come with us."

Anyway, I ran into the elevator, and when I was in the elevator, one of the deputies told me that the defendant -- and I assumed that it was the defendant that was on trial for rape -- grabbed the deputy's gun and held the courtroom hostage and shot the judge and shot somebody else in the courtroom. I understand now that it's the court reporter.

And then we were whisked out of the courthouse, and when I came around the corner here on the MLK side of Central -- the big courthouse right here, there was a deputy down. And apparently he had ran after the defendant and was trying to get him. But the defendant ran across here on MLK and shot at him I heard five times. I did not hear the shots.

He ran into the parking deck. And then you've told me that he's carjacked a couple of vehicles. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: And from there we go back to our live pictures and check in our coverage with WXIA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... but certainly the area where I'm standing, which is Central and MLK, is locked down. They are -- they have the area blocked off. It looks like they have it blocked off for at least a block along MLK.

However, the state capitol, which is just about a block and a half from here, is open. And lawmakers are working in both the House and the Senate on the -- what's called crossover day, where bills have to make it out of one house at least by today or they're through for the year.

So there's a huge calendar that they have to work on today, and they are working, although with heightened security. This according to Michele Hit (ph), who's a spokeswoman for speaker Glenn Richardson.

The world of Coke over here, which is just, oh, about a hundred yards or so in front of where I'm standing, behind the camera sort of, that is open, it appears, and people are going in and out. But behind me is where the blockade begins, and that is where the deputy was shot. One of the two deputies who were shot.

And as you mentioned, I heard that shooting right at almost exactly 9:00 this morning. That was about five shots, first three quickly together, and then almost immediately after that two very close together. Three and two, and then we ran toward the scene and saw the deputy on the ground.

He was initially moving. Richard Crab (ph) told me that he got a look at him and at least at that point his eyes were open. We spoke to a witness who saw it just seconds before we did, and she said that he was standing up briefly after he was shot, and then almost immediately collapsed.

Officers worked frantically on him. After just a few minutes, where I could see a little bit of movement, there was none. And they tried to get him into a squad car rather than wait for an ambulance, and that was how desperate they were. That's how seriously they thought he was injured.

KAGAN: Local news reporter Dennis O'Hare, with WXIA there.

We're looking at live pictures again. This from downtown Atlanta.

The search has been going on for about 2.5 hours now for Brian Nichols. He is the suspect in the shooting case taking place at the Fulton County superior courthouse in downtown Atlanta, really just a few blocks from where we are here at CNN. Those of you familiar with downtown Atlanta, also World of Coke, underground Atlanta, this is all the general area where this is taking place. S.W.A.T. team members because this man believed to be armed and dangerous. This man, Brian Nichols, eyewitnesses saying he was on trial for rape, a second trial for rape. The first trial ended in a mistrial last week.

This was expected to be the last day of the trial. About 900 a.m., the suspect Nichols apparently got up, took a gun from a sheriff's deputy inside the courtroom, shot the judge, Rowland Barnes, and killed him, shot the court reporter. He has not -- the court reporter has not been identified yet.

We go on with our coverage as we listen in to WSB.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... being told that he is OK, just a few stitches. Of course, his car just the first of several that we believe this person carjacked. His car was a green Honda.

Then we understand that a truck was carjacked. In fact, a tow truck. And from there, the last report we had was a green Isuzu.

From the scanner traffic, we understand he was going north on Peachtree towards Spring Street. That's kind of the last update we heard. So a green Isuzu is a vague description, but that's about all we have right now.

So good news from here, though. The AJC reporter who was pistol- whipped is doing fine. Hopefully he'll get out of the hospital very soon -- Jabita (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Thank you, Tyler.

We just want to update everybody who is just joining us now on the very latest about this very grim morning at the Fulton County courthouse. Shortly after 9:00 this morning, as a judge, Judge Rowland Barnes, was preparing to hear some motions in a rape case, but before that, he was doing some civil matters. So there weren't a lot of people in the courtroom. And then at that point, that's when authorities believe that this suspect grabbed the gun of that sheriff's deputy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brian Nichols the suspect there, a rape suspect, was to be retried. This is a picture of the suspect, and I don't know -- not sure how accurate this picture is, but I'm hearing reports that he is bald or wearing his...

KAGAN: Our thanks to our affiliate WSB. We've been making great use of our number of affiliates here in the Atlanta area as only CNN can.

The search going on throughout Atlanta. This search looks like it's going well beyond downtown Atlanta for this man, Brian Nichols, a shooting and murder suspect at this point.

This man earlier today on trial for rape. What was expected to be the last day of the trial, pulls a gun from a sheriff's deputy inside the courtroom of Judge Rowland Barnes, shoots the judge dead, also shoots and kills the court reporter. That court reporter has not been identified.

From there, Brian Nichols took off and fled. And in the way shot and injured two sheriff's deputies. We're now getting word that at least one of those sheriff's deputies has died from his or her wounds at Grady Memorial Hospital.

And, in fact, any moment now we're expecting a live news conference from Grady Hospital. When that happens you will see that live right here on CNN.

Also, the search goes on for the last vehicle that he is believed to have taken, Brian Nichols. Let's put that license plate up again.

It's a Georgia license plate, tag 6584YN, belonging to an "Atlanta-Journal Constitution" feature reporter, longtime reporter at the AJC, Don O'Brien, who was just pulling into the parking garage, thought it was just going to be a regular Friday at work, was pistol- whipped. The suspect took his car.

Now, Don O'Brien is going to be OK. He's also gone to the hospital. He's going to be OK. He is giving statements to police.

And you can see what people on the freeways, the highways of Atlanta, Georgia, are seeing today. Police suspect, green Honda Accord. They're putting the word out for the license plate, the car and a description of the suspect.

Let's now go back to our affiliate -- or we're going to WXIA? Let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... the mayor. Lots of activity here, still looking for people who saw things, people who maybe came in contact with our suspect, Brian Nichols. And lots of people around have just come downtown who can't believe this, want to see this for themselves. A lot of bystanders that have gathered here. But right now, we are looking at several members of the Atlanta police force who, no doubt, are very upset about what has happened.

KAGAN: And so the search has been going on for at least 2.5 hours for this man. It is a lockdown situation that started with the courthouse, that makes sense, and the parking garage. A number of the streets of downtown Atlanta have been closed off and now this extends -- we're getting word that some of the stores along Peach Street, which is the main street that runs you down into downtown Atlanta, have shut their doors, and also 30 to 40 schools in the Atlanta area are on lockdown, and this extends an area well past where this took place in downtown Atlanta.

As you can see, the emotion there of people who worked in that courthouse, a live picture right now from outside the Fulton County Courthouse. At least one sheriff's deputy has been shot and killed, another one wounded. The judge, very well-known, very well-liked, in the legal community here in Atlanta.

Our Gary Tuchman is on the scene in downtown, joins us live now.

Gary?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, can you hear me right now?

KAGAN: I can hear you just fine, Gary.

TUCHMAN: OK, because there's a lot of commotion here at the scene right now, Daryn.

We can tell you that people here are still very tense after what happened this morning.

This behind me is the courthouse, the Fulton County Courthouse, where this happened, this old building right here. On the eighth floor is where the incident happened. Above the courthouse, you can see helicopters in the air right now. They are looking for the suspect, 33-year-old Brian Nichols, who is at-large, considered armed and dangerous. He's a man who at this point who at this point has absolutely nothing to lose after shooting four people inside this courthouse and outside the courthouse, three of whom are dead. It was the eighth floor of this courthouse where it happened.

This man was on trial for kidnapping and rape. There was a mistrial before, so this was the second time he was going on trial. He did not have a gun with him. What we are being told is he grabbed a gun from a deputy who was inside this eighth floor courtroom. He then shot the deputy with that gun.

Now, you may have thought, was there anyone else in the courtroom with a gun who could shoot him? We don't know the answer to that question. The fact is, no one shot him. He then held the courtroom hostage. After a short period of time, he shot and killed the judge who was presiding over the trial, Rowland Barnes. He then shot and killed a clerk in the courtroom and then he made his escape. Somehow he wound his way down the eight floors of that old courthouse, went down to the street and tried to carjack a vehicle. We are told he was unsuccessful, so then he went inside this parking garage. This is called the Underground Parking Garage, right in the heart of downtown Atlanta. He then pistol-whipped a reporter from the local paper here, the Atlanta Journal Constitution, said, get out of your car and hop in the trunk, I'm taking your car. The reporter, who was hurt, refused to go in the trunk; the gunman then took the car away and at he is now at-large here in the city of Atlanta, armed and dangerous as we said.

He's killed three people; one deputy's in the hospital. It's not clear which deputy was killed: the one who was inside the courtroom or the deputy here on the ground who was shot when he escaped from the courthouse. That's not clear, but right now it is a very tense situation as authorities are still looking for this man somewhere in the Atlanta metropolitan area.

As you can see, there is lots of action on the scene. We have to stay out of the streets or we'll get hit by some of these vehicles, but right now much of downtown Atlanta is closed.

KAGAN: All right, Gary, if you'll stay with us just a second. We might have some clarification, a bit, about which sheriff's deputy has been killed. We're expecting a news conference from Grady Memorial Hospital.

Meanwhile, we put up on the screen -- well, no, we'll go back to live pictures.

Let's talk about the search here, Gary. First, the difficulty of looking for somebody in downtown Atlanta, which can seem like a maze and easy to get lost, even when you think you know where you're going.

Gary, are -- all right, not able to hear Gary Tuchman, or he's not able to hear us.

But that report, very helpful to get a geographic sense of how this unfolded. The courthouse, across the street from the parking garage of Underground Atlanta. If you've visited Atlanta before, perhaps you're familiar with Underground, a popular destination for tourists, but this area the search is going on, spreading well beyond downtown Atlanta.

Perhaps we have that live picture once again from the highways, and the urgent signs that are being put up. There you go. If you're driving up interstate 75 or 85, this is what you see, the plea, the information going out. The police suspect: green Honda Accord, encouraging people to call 911.

This -- we can put the plate up again. This license plate belonging to the green Honda Accord. You heard Gary talk about this. Don O'Brien -- longtime, very longtime, well-known reporter for the AJC, the Atlanta Journal Constitution, just pulling up to work. He uses that garage to park his car to go to the newspaper whose offices are just across the street. Pistol-whipped, gave up his car. He is going to be fine and able to give a statement to police.

However, the news not as good for at least three people in this case. Judge Rowland Barnes, the superior court judge that was presiding over the rape trial of for the suspect Brian Nichols. He has been shot and killed. The court reporter, who has not been identified, that person has also been killed, and then one of the sheriff's deputies, dying from their wounds, from the shooting wounds, and then other shootings taking place as the suspect, Brian Nichols, fled the scene.

You're looking at live pictures from one of our affiliates, WXIA, that the police tape up in downtown Atlanta, a huge area that's been cordoned off because, at this point, two hours and 35 minutes, 2 hours and 35 minutes after the shooting took place, the suspect is still at large.

Let's see if we're going to get a statement here from one of these cameras.

No, does not look like that's going to happen.

OK, so let's recap for our viewers that are just joining us. This story started unfolding about 2 hours and 35 minutes ago. A rape trial taking place on the courtroom on the eighth floor of the Fulton County Superior Court building. Judge Rowland Barnes presiding over that case. This was the man on trial, Brian Nichols. This was the judge. This was the second time the case is being tried in two weeks. Last week when this rape trial took place, concerning an incident from back in August, the judge -- that -- that trial ended in a hung jury. So, this was the second take for that one, and this trial ended in tragedy.

One of the jurors in the case talked earlier about what it was like to be in this courtroom with Brian Nichols and with Judge Barnes. Let's listen in to that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's about 6'2, very athletic, African- American gentleman, very short hair.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What's his name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brian Nichols.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How do you spell it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know the spelling for it.

He -- demeanor? Very interactive with the jury, like keeping his eye on all of our eyes to see our reaction, everything. During the jury selection process as well, he was, like, you know, he had a background in criminal justice, I guess on his education, so he knew maybe what was going on.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So the trial started Tuesday?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Started Tuesday. Every time I -- every time when you looked up we saw him looking at our reactions, so it made us nervous, and we always kind of looked the other way.

Today was anticipated to be the last day, but it looked like it was going to carry on past today. We had just started the last witness for the prosecution. I think maybe we had one more detective to go and the defendant -- he hadn't spoken yet.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you expand on what made you nervous about him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, every time you looked up, he's staring at you in the eyes, so I always tried to look to whoever was testifying. It was just, you know -- we all kind of formed somewhat of an opinion on the outcome of it, but we hadn't heard him yet, and we want to hear him...

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How old was the woman...

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Would you let him finish?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One woman was 33, and I think he was 33, as well. UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You talked earlier --

KAGAN: One of the things that has been so interesting and so tragic about covering this story for the last 2 1/2 hours has been learning so quickly about Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes. I can't tell you the number of defense attorneys who have called in to talk about what it's been like to practice and present cases before this man. Well-respected, longtime criminal and civil superior court judge here in Atlanta, presiding over not this case but over a number of high-profile cases, including that of Atlanta Thrashers' hockey star Dany Heatley. That was an incident that took place back in 2003. It was a second-degree vehicular homicide case.

Let's join our affiliate WXIA and hear what they have to say.

UNIDENTIFIED WXIA REPORTER: Do you have any idea how it was that Mark Taylor (ph) got that information and was able to release that information?

UNIDENTIFIED WXIA REPORTER: I'm not sure, Jill. I talked with his spokeswoman just about an hour or so ago on another part of this, but, no, I -- at that time we didn't know that the lieutenant governor knew or would be releasing that Judge Barnes was dead, but I can find out.

UNIDENTIFIED WXIA REPORTER: Yes, apparently Taylor made that announcement in the state Senate, which, as you indicated earlier, is in the middle of a very, very busy day of last-minute work on bills that have to be passed today. And so that is going to be very interesting to see how that information -- how he got a hold of that information.

UNIDENTIFIED WXIA REPORTER: Well, he may have gotten confirmation from someone just as it was being released to other officials, and then he may have just gone to the Senate floor. I'm speculating here, but that is certainly part of what --

UNIDENTIFIED WXIA REPORTER: Sounds like somebody who worked there who was on the first floor earlier, and he said basically they were just pretty much locked down. They were told not to leave, so that may be what we're seeing, maybe some of the workers are now being allowed to leave, several hours after this happened, but I'm sure that investigators have searched and will continue to just search every corner of the building to make absolutely sure it is safe now.

UNIDENTIFIED WXIA REPORTER: Indeed, I'm sure they will certainly be in the coming days and weeks reviewing security procedures at the Fulton County Courthouse.

We are awaiting Fulton County sheriff Myron Freeman to brief us. We understand he is in the emergency room where doctors are practically working on one of two deputies that were shot in this shooting this morning.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And, of course, it was just last week that a deputy in the metro area was killed on the job so this has been a very tragic time for law enforcement.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Indeed, we -- you just commented, actually I believe just yesterday we were talking about that.

KAGAN: You heard it listening to our coverage from WSB there. We are standing by. We do expect a news conference from Grady Memorial Hospital, the hospital where the wounded were taken and when that news conference does begin we will certainly go to that live to get the latest. The latest numbers we do have: three dead, including the judge, superior court judge Rowland Barnes, A sheriff's deputy and the court reporter and then another sheriff's deputy being treated at the hospital.

Want to talk about the judge again, superior court judge Rowland Barnes. We've had a number of defense attorneys call in and talk about this man. I had a chance to talk with Drew Findling, a long- time defense attorney here in Atlanta. He's now joined me here on the set at CNN, its global headquarters, and once again, to remind our viewers, we're just really a couple blocks away from where this courthouse is, where the shooting took place and where the search is based at this time.

DREW FINDLING, ATTORNEY AND FRIEND OF JUDGE: That's correct.

KAGAN: First tell me about the man. I have to remark, after doing this a number of years, to have something like this happen, I've never had a situation where so many have called in so quickly to talk so glowingly about a single person.

FINDLING: Well, I think the thing that distinguishes Rowland Barnes is he's just a regular guy. Since I've been practicing for 21 years, we've moved from the regular old-time guys to the intellectuals that were in big firms, career prosecutors that get political appointments. And Rowland was a career magistrate. That is, he heard smaller cases in a little jurisdiction outside the central Atlanta area, but he really wanted to be clad with the black robe, permanently in superior court, and folks like myself, that try cases for a living, supported him because he earned the right to be a judge. He wanted to be a judge and became one, he got the appointment. And he really brought a layman's perspective to the bench.

KAGAN: And so whether we're hearing from defense attorneys or even from the jurors, so that the jurors -- these are people who wouldn't even have had that much interaction with him. They were really touched by him, about the command he had over this courtroom, over his courtroom, and the fairness of which he was conducting it.

FINDLING: Judge Barnes could care less what anybody thought of him. He was going to make a call -- you know, sometimes a lot of us would say, you know, he's kind of leaning towards the prosecution and then a couple of years ago he threw out one of the more notorious murder cases in Atlanta on a speedy trial issue. He made gutsy calls. Like I said, when you practice in front of Judge Barnes, it was like having the regular guy wearing the black robe making regular-guy, sound, practical decisions. KAGAN: Want to call on your expertise as a defense attorney to help us understand what was taking place with the trial. Not -- you were not involved in this trial with Brian Nichols, but as we've been reporting, Brian Nichols, the suspect currently at large that they're looking for, this was a man on trial for a long list of rape, kidnapping, an incident that took place back in August, I guess. But this was the rape trial that took place last week, ended in a hung jury. Here it was on trial again. That seems so unusual to have the retrial the week right after the last trial.

FINDLING: Entirely unusual. I would have to imagine that Judge Barnes said, hey, let's just try this thing again, the jury can't reach a decision and the attorneys agreed to go ahead and do it. To me, that's unorthodox. I can tell you if it was my case I would want the transcript done. I would want a time to think about it and try to maybe bring a resolution to the case short of a jury trial. What happened here is that they tried the case, the jury was apparently unable to reach a verdict and they cranked right up again the following Monday. Brought in a whole new panel of jurors, struck the jury and started over again.

And what happens is, it is a heightened sense of emotion. I mean, all the parties involved, whether they be Judge Barnes, whether they be the prosecutor, the defense attorney, the witnesses and obviously most importantly here, the defendant, live through the emotion of a jury trial, which is one of the most emotional experiences one can endure, and start it over again the following week. That's got to be very stressful for everybody involved.

KAGAN: Drew Findling, thank you for your expertise on jury trials and also on your thoughts about the judge. I want to bring in Charles Tanksley, a former state senator here in Georgia. Also, Mr. Senator, I understand, a friend of the family and a friend of the judge.

CHARLES TANKSLEY, FMR. STATE SENATOR: I knew the judge. I couldn't say that I was a close friends with him. And I had appeared in front of him in at least one case that I remember vividly.

KAGAN: And what could you tell us about that, that particular case?

TANKSLEY: I would have to just reiterate what other people are saying, that he was extremely fair, had, I think model temperament for a judge and a good knowledge of the law and was willing to rule consistent with it.

KAGAN: And do you know anything of his family? Can you tell us anything personally about him?

TANKSLEY: I do not know his family well or can tell you anything about him personally other than his good reputation with both the criminal bar and the civil trial bar here in Atlanta in Fulton County.

KAGAN: And Mr. Tanksley, as someone who's practiced and dealt with this court and this courthouse, what do you make of how things unfolded today?

TANKSLEY: It's about as shocking as it can get. I guess another connection I have is that my dad served in the same court for a period of about 30 years, and, of course, never experienced anything of this nature.

KAGAN: Yes, let's hope they never face this again in downtown Atlanta. Former state senator Charles Tanksley, thank you for calling in and thank you for the thoughts.

Our correspondent Gary Tuchman is on the street. He's on the scene as the search goes on for Brian Nichols. Let's go to Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, in addition to this being a tense scene, it's also an extremely sad scene. Just a few minutes ago, we saw several people walking behind me crying. We assume they are either family members or friends of some of the victims in this situation. This all happened around 9:00 this morning as a trial was about to start in the Fulton County Courthouse here in downtown Atlanta. It's that old building right behind me. Eighth floor of the courthouse.

You are not allowed to bring anything metal into this courthouse. There are metal detectors to prevent you from doing so. However, in many of the courtrooms for violent cases, there are deputies who carry guns. And what happened in this situation is that the man who was on trial for kidnapping and rape grabbed the deputy's gun from his holster and then shot him.

That man's name is 33-year-old Brian Nichols. You've seen his picture on TV, but they are passing his picture out to everybody here because they are desperate to catch him. He is on the loose. They feel he has absolutely nothing lose. He is 33 years old. It is not clear, according to police, what kind of vehicle he is in. He tried to carjack at least three different vehicles and they're not exactly sure what they're looking for. That's a big problem.

Police are pleading to us, pleading to the news media, not to report where this man lives or where his family members or friends live. And the reason for that is it's obviously places they will go to look for him. But what we're being told is he shot the deputy, then held the courtroom hostage. If there was another person, another deputy in the courtroom with a gun, he didn't use it. And then minutes later shot and killed a judge who was presiding over the case, that's Judge Rowland Barnes.

Judge Barnes is very well-known here in Fulton County, Georgia. He's presided over some high-profile cases including the case -- you hockey fans may be familiar with this -- of Dany Heatley, the Atlanta Thrashers hockey player who was in a car, got into an accident, killed a fellow player, pleaded guilty to vehicular homicide. And that was a case that this judge presided over.

So anyway, this gunmen shot the judge, then shot a clerk inside the courtroom. That judge and the clerk are both dead. He then came downstairs, eight floors through a stairwell on this street, this is Martin Luther King Boulevard in downtown Atlanta, and shot another deputy. Now one of the other deputies, either the one in the courtroom or the one on the ground, is also dead. The other one is in the hospital. Then he tried to carjack at least two vehicles, ultimately went in this parking lot, this is underground parking lot. If you've been to Atlanta this is right next door to the state capitol, right next door to the world of Coke, which is a major tourist draw in Atlanta.

He then tried to take a car and pistol whip the driver of the car, who happened to be a reporter for the "Atlanta Journal Constitution." He told that reporter to get into the trunk when he took the car away. The reporter very smartly and very bravely refused, and then we are told, it appears, that this gunman drove away in the car. But it's still not clear if he's in that vehicle. On

the highways here in Atlanta, Interstate 85 and 75, two major thoroughfares that run through the city, the electronic signs above are warning people to be on the lookout, but it doesn't say what kind of car or license plate because they're not exactly sure. The people here in the Atlanta metropolitan area are very nervous right now because there's a gunman with very little to lose who's on the loose, who shot four people and who's killed three. Daryn, back to you.

KAGAN: Gary Tuchman reporting live from downtown Atlanta. Another result of the search that goes on. Some 30 to 40 schools, elementary schools and high schools in the Atlanta area have been put on lockdown. Very concerning for parents here in this area. It means they can't get access to their kids.

I have school principal with me on the phone right, Dr. Christiana Otuwha. She is with Benteen Elementary. Dr. Otuwha, thank you for being with us.

CHRISTIANA OTUWHA, PRINCIPAL, BENTEEN ELEM. SCHOOL: Thank you.

KAGAN: Tell us about the phone call you got of putting your school in lockdown, please.

OTUWHA: We are right now on lockdown because of the incidents in the city. So all the doors are locked and the students are safe. We make sure that everybody -- we know the movements in and around the school at all times. And we are monitoring the school to make sure that the skids are safe.

KAGAN: That also means that parents are not allowed to come pick up their children. Is that right?

OTUWHA: They can come in, as long as they have I.D. and we know who they are. They can come in, into the school. We are allowed to talk with them and attend to them as they come into the school.

KAGAN: So if parents want to come pick up their kids, they're allowed to, and they can leave?

OTUWHA: The parents are allowed to come into the school, but if the parents can call me before they come to the school, I will assure them everything is OK at the school.

KAGAN: How much information were you given about the situation, and how does the system work when it's necessary for a school to go into lockdown, Dr. Otuwha?

OTUWHA: We were told that there was an incident, and we were told the essence of the incident, so we know what is going on around us.

KAGAN: As I said, you're with Benteen Elementary School. How close are you to downtown Atlanta?

OTUWHA: I would say about six, seven miles to downtown Atlanta.

KAGAN: In which direction?

OTUWHA: Going east.

KAGAN: And How many children at your school?

OTUWHA: Four hundred and fifteen.

KAGAN: Four hundred and fifteen, so really for the kids inside, they're calm, they're OK.

OTUWHA: Yes, they're OK. We are all aware of what's going on, the students are aware of what's going on. Everybody is going about their normal business in a calm way, but we know where the kids are. We are watching them at all times. There is adult supervision around the school.

KAGAN: All right, Dr. Christiana Otuwha at Benteen Elementary, about six miles away from downtown Los Angeles, one of about 40 schools here in the Atlanta area that has been put on lockdown as the search for the suspect goes on.

Dr. Otuwha, thank you. We're going let you go and let you attend to the children, the some-400 children in your school.

As we were saying this story begins with the suspect, Brian Nichols, on trial for rape charges. This was a trial that took place last week, ended up in a hung jury, so they did it again this week. Take a look at the long list of charges this man was facing before Judge Rowland Barnes: rape, false imprisonment, aggravated sodomy, burglary, aggravated assault with intent to rape, no driver's license and no insurance. Apparently this goes back to an incident in august when Brian Nichols was accused of kidnapping his girlfriend and raping her. This leading into the trial of last week and then the retrial this week.

In talking to a number of people in the courthouse it looked like this was going to be the last -- this was going to be the last day of this trial, and instead this is how it ended.

We know at least three dead. including the judge, Rowland Barnes, a court reporter, and at least one sheriff's deputy. You're now looking at live pictures. This is what people see as they north and south on the highways leading into and out of Atlanta. The search on for this car, the green Honda Accord with the license plate, the Georgia license plate there, you see it on your screen, 6584YN. That car and that license plate belonging to, interestingly enough, a features reporter for the "Atlanta Journal Constitution," pulled into the parking garage, which happens to be not only across the street from the newspaper, but also across the street from the courthouse. He was pistol whipped and demanded, the suspect did, that he give up his car and took off with that. It's believed that most likely that that's what Brian Nichols is fleeing in at this time.

Want to welcome here to us at our CNN headquarters B.J. Bernstein, a defense attorney. You've appeared a number of times before Judge Barnes.

B.J. BERNSTEIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I have. He -- this is just really a tragic loss for everybody in Atlanta and the bar. It's just really shocking.

KAGAN: Tell me about being before the judge and the kind of man that he was and how he commanded his courtroom.

BERNSTEIN: A really wonderful judge. Sometimes we hear the reputations of judges having tantrums or being very strict. He was somebody who handled himself where both parties got to have a say. Whichever side you were on you got to say your points, and then he made a decision, and usually it was a fair one.

KAGAN: Have you been in -- have you presented a case in this particular courtroom where it took place?

BERNSTEIN: I have.

KAGAN: So you can only too well imagine how things unfolded this morning.

BERNSTEIN: It had to be just -- it's unbelievable. I mean, the courtroom itself is fairly large, but everybody is going to be concentrated near the front. The judge would have been up front, the court reporter right in front of him, the lawyers and the defendant at the table, and then the two deputies also in the courtroom, so it's actually -- although the courtroom is large, the area that everyone is standing in is fairly small.

KAGAN: Now you weren't in the courtroom as it happened, but you know, as you're describing the layout, how would a defendant even get access to a deputy's gun? Where does the deputy stand in relation to where the defendant would be?

BERNSTEIN: Well, they're not right up on you. When you're on trial, they're standing there and they're close by. If someone is in custody and they're being brought out, there is a side room. They're brought out. And you're not in shackles. You're not handcuffed.

KAGAN: You're in civilian clothes, so that there's no sense of prejudice you might already be convicted. BERNSTEIN: Exactly. And so you're standing there and, you know, they're alert to sudden movements, and they're supposed to watch what's going on, but you've got to remember day in, day out, this is not the norm, and although they're on guard, you can never expect this.

KAGAN: In terms of security at this courthouse I've heard different things in talking to people this morning. Everything from this is a big cause for concern and people have been talking about this at this courthouse, or security here is like courthouses across the country and this could have happened anywhere.

BERNSTEIN: I think it goes with it could have happened anywhere. I mean, every courthouse in this area and at federal courthouses all over the country there's security like at the airport. You have to go through the metal detector. If you've set it off, they're going to take the wand on you, and you're going to put your bag on the conveyer belt.

Now it's not as strict as the airport, and clearly things are going to take a little longer to get in and out of courtrooms all over this courtroom after something like this has happened.

KAGAN: Absolutely. But the first question this morning was how would someone get a gun in? Clearly he didn't get a gun in. The gun was already there. I want to show people a live picture. We're standing by. We're waiting for a news conference that's expected to take place from Grady Memorial Hospital. We're expecting it's going to be with the county sheriff, Myron Freeman. This is the hospital where the sheriff's deputies were taken after they were shot. Not that far, just maybe, what would you say, B.J.? A miles, a couple of miles from where...

BERNSTEIN: A few miles.

KAGAN: Yes, just down the street pretty much from where the courthouse is. When that news conference begins, we expect to have the latest information on the search for the suspect. Also, the latest on the status of the victims here. We certainly will take that news conference live.

B.J., before I let you go, talk to me about -- more about -- I was talking with another defense attorney, which I thought was interesting, just how this unfolded, that there would be a trial last week where this man is on trial for rape, ends in a hung jury. That happens. But how unusual then to retry the case so quickly the next week?

BERNSTEIN: I've got to tell you, I've done it before. I've had it happen a couple of times.

KAGAN: How does that work?

BERNSTEIN: It's a little crazy for the litigants, because you don't have the transcripts ready for the trial, but the flip side of it is, you just did it, you know the facts, you know the issues, and a lot of times the judge says, let's just go ahead. We know we're going to have to have another trial, let's move on it.

KAGAN: And that's why you do it, because it's fresh, instead of putting it off, because otherwise to get a place on the calendar...

BERNSTEIN: Could take months. And if he's in jail, you know, the idea is you want to take the people who are in jail, their cases first.

KAGAN: So you've heard of it.

BERNSTEIN: I've done it.

KAGAN: You have done it. Another defense attorney talking to, saying it really -- it raises the stakes, and it raises the tension level in the courtroom. Would you agree or disagree?

BERNSTEIN: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, we have this happening. We just were fresh on the heels of what happened in Chicago, but the realities are over the years, the reason for the heightened security at every courthouse in the country is people come to court, they're upset, they're angry. They're talking about things very emotional -- child custody, criminal cases, divorces, contracts, and it makes people upset, and it -- there's always room for violence.

KAGAN: B.J. Bernstein, thanks for calling on the phone before and for stopping in and giving us your perspective, defense attorney B.J. Bernstein.

We're going to go ahead and recap what we've been following for the last two hours. It was about three hours ago that this story started to unfold in downtown Atlanta, in the courthouse, in the courtroom of superior court Judge Rowland Barnes. A rape trial was ongoing, expected to be the last day of the trial for Brian Nichols, when apparently according to reports Nichols pulled the gun on a sheriff's deputy, shot the deputy, shot the judge. And here you're looking at the long list of charges that this man was facing, shot and killed Judge Rowland Barnes, shot and killed the court reporter, who has not been identified, shot a sheriff's deputy, and then took off.

After that, a large number of carjackings taking place. We talked to a tow truck driver this morning. We also understand he took the car of an "Atlanta Journal Constitution" feature reporter Don O'Brien, pistol-whipped him and took off, and that's the car they're looking for right now, a green Honda Accord with a Georgia license plate.

Any minute now, we do expect a news conversation from Grady Memorial Hospital to take place with the sheriff of Fulton County, Myron Freeman, an update on the victims, an update on the search. We will bring you that live as soon as possible.

That's going to wrap up my coverage. Clearly the story ongoing. I'm Daryn Kagan. Thank you for being with me over the last two hours.

Our coverage continues as I pass it off to Wolf Blitzer in Washington, D.C. -- Wolf. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com