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Congressional Hearings Begin on Steroid Use in MLB; Bush Meets with Irish Prime Minister Celebrating St. Patrick's Day; 'Person of Interest' in Case of Missing Florida Girl in Custody

Aired March 17, 2005 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR: We have a lot on deck. Literally...
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Yes. It's a good choice of words.

KAGAN: ... to watch what's happening on Capitol Hill today. Some of the biggest names in baseball waiting to testify on the steroids issue.

SANCHEZ: Interesting combo there with two of them. I wonder if they're going to be bashing each other.

KAGAN: Jose Canseco and Mark McGuire.

SANCHEZ: The former bash brothers, no longer kissing cousins.

Well, here's what's happening right now in the news.

Big name baseball players, as Daryn was just talking about, major league officials are testifying today about steroid use in baseball. And the parents of two young athletes who committed suicide after taking steroids are going to be testifying.

These are live pictures that you are looking at right now. We do have a tentative schedule, so from time to time we're going to be going into this depending on who is testifying at that time. Some members of Congress are complaining that baseball's new drug testing policy isn't tough enough. All that throughout this newscast.

Also, police in Florida want to talk to this man that you're looking at right there about the disappearance of a 9-year-old girl. A warrant has been issued now for John Evander Couey. The convicted sex offender was last seen in Savannah, Georgia, Saturday. Police say that Couey had been staying near Jessica Lunsford's home. Lunsford has been missing now, as you may know, for three weeks.

Scott Peterson is now on San Quentin's death row. Peterson was taken by van from county jail to the prison before daybreak. Yesterday, a judge formally sentenced Peterson to die for the killing of his wife and his unborn son.

Also a short time ago, President Bush nominated Congressman Robert Portman to a position of U.S. trade representative. Portman would become the White House -- really the point person for free trade agreements. He must still be confirmed by the Senate, of course. The Ohio Republican has served six terms in the House. And the Senate Armed Services Committee is right now, as a matter of fact these are live pictures you're looking at of Senator Warner, looking into global threats to the United States. CIA director Porter Goss is among those that are testifying before the panel. After the open session wraps up, lawmakers will go behind closed doors for the second half of the hearing.

So as you can see, we've got a lot on tap for you this morning. I'm Rick Sanchez.

KAGAN: Rick McSanchez for purposes of St. Patrick's Day.

SANCHEZ: Thank you very much.

KAGAN: That would make me Daryn O'Kagan...

SANCHEZ: You got it.

KAGAN: ... this morning.

This moment, a big day on Capitol Hill; an all-star roster of baseball players both past and present on deck, as we're referring to on Capitol Hill. So batter up. The issue of steroids in Major League Baseball under the microscope today, as well as some of the biggest boppers in the sport's history.

Our Congressional correspondent Ed Henry joins us from the A-Team on Capitol Hill, where the hearing is about to get under way.

Ed, good morning.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. You know, getting a seat in that hearing room where you see Chairman Tom Davis beginning the hearing now is almost, almost as difficult as getting a World Series ticket. In fact, people from the general public were waiting outside the hearing room in the hallway since 4:00 yesterday afternoon, just to get in to this hearing to see some of those players testify today.

They will actually not be coming up for a few hours. There will be experts testifying first before them. But eventually in the starting lineup will be, of course, Jose Canseco. We're expecting some real fireworks. Because he will be at the same witness table as you mentioned earlier as Mark McGuire and Rafael Palmeiro. Two of the players that, in his new book, Canseco accuses of using steroids.

We've gotten a sneak speak already at Rafael Palmeiro's opening statement. And at the very beginning he says, quote, "I've never used steroids, period. Never." And so that may have to prompt some of the other players, like McGuire, to address that very question under oath. And that is why a lot of these lawmakers were eager to get the players to testify.

The committee wants to zero in on two key questions. First of all, how widespread is steroid abuse in baseball? Canseco has suggested it is rampant. Others are saying that he has exaggerated. They want to get to the bottom of that. The second question will put commissioner Bud Selig in the hot seat. That is, is baseball's new testing and punishment process, is that new policy for real? Is it tough, or is it riddled with loopholes? In fact, some people, like Senator John McCain, are now saying that Major League Baseball misled Congress and the public about how tough that steroid policy really is.

And finally, some people even before the hearing got going were saying that it is going to wind up being a farce. Because the players have actually not been granted immunity from prosecution association, so some are saying that they will not be candid. But I can tell you lawmakers on that committee are saying that the players should not need immunity from prosecution in order to tell the truth under oath.

They say they should just be candid whether they get immunity or not. And also some lawmakers say that if Jose Canseco and others start taking the Fifth Amendment, that in and of itself may be quite revealing -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Ed, looking ahead, besides turning this hearing room on Capitol Hill into spring training All-Star game, what can these hearings actually lead to?

HENRY: Well, what you hear from a lot of lawmakers in both parties is that while they face accusations of grandstanding, of course. And that they're just trying to grab headlines, what they say is that actually a new government report points out that over a million kids have tried steroids. And we're going to hear from witnesses this morning who say that those kids wind up with liver problem, wind up sometimes with cancer, sometimes wind up with depression that leads to suicide.

And so lawmakers say that these Major League Ball players are role models to the kids. And they may want to look at legislation down the road that will actually crack down, not just on baseball, but maybe a uniform standard for steroid testing all across the board: football, baseball, hockey, you name it.

So that's why a lot of the sports leagues, not just baseball are looking at this closely. In fact, Ted Barrett, the CNN congressional producer, earlier found out that the second person online waiting to get into this hearing room was a lawyer from NASCAR. I can tell you all the sports leagues; all the others are looking at this hearing very closely.

KAGAN: So that's how those cars go that fast? It's steroids. I was wondering about that.

(LAUGHTER)

HENRY: Exactly.

KAGAN: All right. Ed Henry on Capitol Hill, thank you for that.

SANCHEZ: They put in it the transmission fluid.

So how are these hearings seen from inside baseball? Joining us for that now is Ken Rosenthal. He's baseball insider columnist for "The Sporting News." He's also an author. And he's good to join us now from Baltimore.

Let me ask you straight out. Is there any question in your mind that many baseball players take steroids? And that it has had an effect on the records?

KEN ROSENTHAL, COLUMNIST, "THE SPORTING NEWS": There's no question in my mind, Rick, that baseball players have used steroids. We know that from results of the 2003 tests, when 5 percent to 7 percent of the tests came back positive. So I don't think it is in dispute that players have taken steroids over the years.

SANCHEZ: Has it had an effect on the records?

ROSENTHAL: Yes. I definitely think it has. And I think the way you've seen the records evolve over the last 10 years, the numbers have basically increased exponentially and in leaps that we never expected before that amazed us. And I think it has become apparent that one of the reasons this has happened is because players have used performance-enhancing drugs.

SANCHEZ: Whose fault is it? Is it the players or is it the league's fault? The players after all, as you know, if you've played any ball yourself will take any advantage, including steeling the catcher's signals to get ahead and perform better.

ROSENTHAL: It's both sides' fault. And in my mind, baseball should have been more aware of the problem, should have pressed the issue starting, I don't know, in the mid '90s, perhaps even earlier. Their reason is that they couldn't force the union, couldn't get the union to agree in a collective bargaining situation to have steroid testing. So the union, of course, bears some blame as well. They fought this bitterly for years.

SANCHEZ: Let me differ with you if I could, here. How do you tell a 19-year-old kid graduating from high school, who is possibly contemplating taking steroids and knows it will probably increase his salary by about oh, let's say $50 million, and give him a chance to play in the bigs? That even though someone else is doing it, he shouldn't? How do you say that to a 19-year-old kid?

ROSENTHAL: How about fact that, Rick, that it is illegal without a prescription to use many of these anabolic steroids. I think that's a pretty strong reason to tell someone not to use those drugs. It's against the law.

SANCHEZ: But that's my point. Shouldn't baseball have stepped in somewhere along the line and said look, no, fine, over, you're not allowed to use them. Period.

ROSENTHAL: That's my point. I think that should have happened a long time ago. And frankly, I think Selig and Fehr, the head of the sport, Bud Selig and Donald Fehr, the head of the union, should be held accountable for what has happened. To me, the point of this hearing today should be to keep these guys under pressure. Baseball had a situation when they had no testing until 2003, then they adopted testing. Congress brought these guys in, the tests wasn't sufficient. They adopted tougher testing.

To me, that should be the goal here. Get the toughest testing available, and then you'd have some real progress.

SANCHEZ: Let me show you something. This is a poll that was done on "USA Today." In fact, it was the headline yesterday in "USA Today" newspaper. It says -- this is a poll of the players, incidentally. Players! And it asked them, "Have steroids played a role in record-breaking performances?" Seventy-nine percent say steroids have played a role. That's almost 80 percent.

ROSENTHAL: Sure.

SANCHEZ: If anyone knows about this it would be the players, would it not?

ROSENTHAL: Sure, Rick. And again, I don't think it is in dispute that performance-enhancing drugs indeed enhance performance. That's the point of players taking them. And for years, some union people said oh, they don't really have an effect. It is hand/eye coordination, hitting a baseball and all that. Well, that is all true. But there's an extra effect that performance-enhancing drugs provide. And we've seen that in the sport both with hitters and with pitchers.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Makes someone who is good great and someone who's maybe great even greater.

Before you go, any fireworks? What do you expect today from all these guys getting on there? I'm especially interested in what you think about Canseco getting together with his old pal McGuire, standing shoulder to shoulder?

ROSENTHAL: I think it will be very uncomfortable seeing those guys together. Frankly, what I expect, Rick, is a single season record established for invoking the Fifth Amendment. I don't think any of these guys are going to speak their minds. Because I think they're afraid that their achievements will be tarnished, they could be afraid of further prosecution. For the congressman to suggest oh, they should just speak the truth because they're here, I don't think that is very enlightened thinking. They know better than that.

SANCHEZ: We're going to do this now. Ken, stick around. Maybe we'll be able to get you back on this. But let's go into the committee now and hear from Henry Waxman. He's one of the chairmen of this committee and let's hear how he's opening the session today.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: Kids get the message when it appears that it is OK for professional athletes to use steroids. If the pros do it, college athletes will do it, too. And if it's an edge in college, high school students want that edge, too. There's a pyramid of steroid use in society. And today our investigation starts where it should, with the owners and players at the top of that pyramid. Congress first investigated steroids and drug use in professional sports over 30 years ago. I think perhaps only two people in this room would have knowledge of that or would remember it. That would be commissioner Selig and myself. He was an owner in 1970 and I was elected to Congress in 1974. Well, the year before I ran for Congress, the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce, which I served all of my time in Congress as a member in addition to this committee, concluded a yearlong investigation.

And they concluded, quote, "Drug use exists in all sports and in all levels of competition. In some instances, the degree of improper drug use, primarily amphetamines and anabolic steroids, can only be described as alarming." The committee's Chairman Harley Staggers was concerned about making these public...

KAGAN: And so there is an early taste, the opening statement by the ranking minority member of the House Government Reform Committee holding these hearings today on steroids. What we're really looking to listen to is Bud Selig, a baseball commissioner, also a top five list of some of the top ranking sluggers in baseball, as they testify about steroid or potential steroid use.

Keeping it on this story, health officials say they're seeing an ever-growing number of teenagers at least trying steroids. And they say that age group faces the greatest danger from the drug.

Our Dan Lothian now has one family's story of loss and also their resolve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In order to take his baseball skills to the varsity level.

DAN HOOTEN, FATHER: Taylor was on the starting lineup in his junior year.

LOTHIAN: He says his son started taking steroids, just like nine other student athletes at this competing high school have admitted doing.

I've had the kids in our area in Plano tell me that at least a third of the young men that are showing up on Friday night to play football are juicing.

LOTHIAN: Sports medicine experts, like Dr. Lyle Micheli of Children's Hospital in Boston, say steroid users are getting younger and younger because of increasing pressures.

DR. LYLE MICHELI, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL, BOSTON: And some of these kids are not in a position to draw the line. They just will do whatever it takes, they think, to compete.

LOTHIAN: Earlier this month in Madison, Connecticut, sick athletes from Daniel Hand High School were charged with possessing steroids. One is accused of selling the pills. Bought, police say, while on a family trip to Mexico. An alert teacher turned them in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was paying close attention to both the actions and the words of the students.

LOTHIAN: Other school districts are now responding aggressively to this problem. But CNN found teens who aren't deterred by threat or harmful consequences.

(on camera): And where better to find out what teens are saying about steroid use than on the internet? Chat rooms drowning with dialogue, some of it graphic from young men who say they're 15, 16, 17 years old, and they're obsessed with building the perfect body. Like this one, who says he's willing to try almost anything.

(voice-over): One complains of the bad job he did injecting himself. Another describes how he bled more than usual. This one brags about the attention he's getting from girls impressed with his new overnight physique. And a complaint from one about his bad acne, a result of juicing. Acne, doctors say, is just one of the milder side effects, which can range from mood swings to liver problems to growth issues.

MICHELI: If a kid's taking this in middle school when he's still growing, they may lose growth in the process.

LOTHIAN: But back in cyberspace where teens often obtain steroids, this apparent adult sings the praises of juicing, saying concerns are overblown. Tell that to the father of Taylor Hooten. The Texas 17 year old committed suicide in 2003. His family blames depression linked to steroid withdrawal.

Some of America's young athletes redefining the meaning of the phrase "no pain, no gain."

Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Several medical experts are scheduled to testify before Congress today. They're going to address what lawmakers call the central issue, the health risks of performance enhancing drugs.

Joining us to discuss that is Dr. TODD: Schlifstein, a sports medicine physician at New York University Medical Center.

Doctor, good morning.

DR. TODD: SCHLIFSTEIN, SPORTS MEDICINE, NYU MEDICAL CENTER: Good morning.

KAGAN: We're going to hear very soon from some of the top players in baseball. Why do we care whether or not they've been taking steroids?

SCHLIFSTEIN: Well, steroids have very serious side effects. And certainly the pyramid scheme they were talking about, meaning if athletes are using a certain percentage of it that slowly trickles down to the rest of society. Junior high school, high school has been well-documented use. Even in junior high is 1 percent to 2 percent using steroids.

KAGAN: All right. So let's say a 15-year-old kid is watching right now. What would you tell him if he's thinking about using steroids? What the effects could be?

SCHLIFSTEIN: Well, there are many side effects that he should be aware of. Short term and we're not even aware of many of the long term ones. First of all, if he's still in his growth spurt, it's going to close his growth plate so he can stop growing. Those growth plates are closed by the use of anabolic steroids.

Secondly, He can get liver tumors, benign, malignant tumors. He can get a heart attack even if he's young, acute blood clot. He can get toxic hepatitis. Some of these things are short term. And even when he's done using it, he's still at risk for some of these things later on.

KAGAN: One father is going to testify. And this man is going to come up very soon about how his son was a user of steroid, stopped using them, became so depressed that he committed suicide. Is there any link, scientifically, between steroid use and depression?

SCHLIFSTEIN: It has been documented about mood swings with steroid use. It hasn't been well-documented withdrawal or other side effects. But certainly depression would be thought to be one. If you have a large amount of hormone in your system and you suddenly remove it, you'd expect rapid mood swings, flattening of the affect and certainly a risk for depression as well.

KAGAN: But steroids are used for some things in medicine. They can be helpful drugs. It is not like you want to get rid of them totally.

SCHLIFSTEIN: Certainly! And that's why they're given by prescription only. There are prescription drugs only in the United States and should be kept that way. A lot of medical uses for steroids and there are different types of steroids also. There are Gluco-corticosteroids like prednisone, which you use for asthma; as opposed to anabolic steroids we're talking about here that you use for body or muscle growth.

KAGAN: Dr. Schlifstein, What will you be listening for today?

SCHLIFSTEIN: Well, I'll be curious to see what kind of side effects and what problems there are that people testify to. I certainly would be interested in to see what kind of testing they're planning on doing, implementing, as the testing they have now is a step in the right direction but needs to be upgraded.

KAGAN: Dr. Todd Schlifstein, thank you...

SCHLIFSTEIN: Thank you.

KAGAN: ... for giving us a little bit of scientific background on what we'll be listening to today.

Let's take a life picture right now from Capitol Hill. There's Henry Waxman, one of the two men calling this committee meeting, this hearing. And there's Bud Selig seated next to Rafael Palmeiro, the commissioner of baseball and one of the top sluggers.

Rafael Palmeiro has already put out a statement saying flat out he did not, has not ever done steroids. He will be making a short statement ahead. We're going to monitor this and you the best parts coming up.

SANCHEZ: Here's another story that we're going to be following for you throughout the day. A defeat for environmentalists but could bring some relief at the pump, so say many in the Republican ranks. It is a look at what Congress proposes to keep you from feeling pain at the pumps.

KAGAN: And from Northern Ireland to the nation's capital. Two sisters have a special message to deliver to President Bush on this St. Patrick's Day.

SANCHEZ: Also, a big cat on the prowl. He's caught on tape. But his whereabouts remain a mystery. That story, stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: If it's March 17, that means St. Patrick's day and the traditional Shamrock Ceremony with Irish President Bertie Ahern at the White House with President Bush. Let's listen in.

BERTIE AHERN, PRIME MINISTER, IRELAND: This is a heritage and symbol of inclusion that we're proud to share with all traditions on the island of Ireland, and the United States, and indeed today around the world.

Mr. President, today we also acknowledge the true and constant friendship, which we've received from this country for the efforts to secure peace and stability in Northern Ireland. You're even handed support and wise counsel continues to be an invaluable resource to us in our search for past lasting peace.

As you know, we were very close last December to bringing an end to the journey we first began with the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in April of 1998. The United States has been with us every step of the way. We greatly appreciate the work of your administration, of your Special Envoy Richard Reese.

Above all, I want to thank you for your personal interventions late last year to encourage the parties to face up to the challenges of peace and partnership, and to take the courageous steps required by this agreement.

We've come a long way, President, over the last seven-years, and we've achieved a great deal of progress in Northern Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement has positively transformed the political landscape. But we need to complete the work of achieving lasting peace and political partnership in Northern Ireland. We need to ensure that the agreement's vision of a new beginning to relationships is fully realized and secured for this and future generations.

That's what the people of Ireland, north and south, voted for in 1998, when they overwhelmingly endorsed the agreement. They did not vote, President, for an armed peace, neither did they vote for a criminal peace. They voted for a democratic peace. With your continued support and encouragement, we will deliver that outcome. My government remains as fully committed today as we were in 1998 to making the Good Friday Agreement work.

Recent events have damaged confidence, but they've also crystallized what must now be done to finalize the process and achieve stable partnership government in Northern Ireland. Partnership politics requires all parties to play their part. But if trust and confidence is to be established, tangibly evidence of commitments to a democratic peace is essential.

The political inclusion envisaged by the agreement can only be realized when those who aspire to share in government have brought definitive closure, the paramilitary capability and activity, including all forms of criminality.

Mr. President, in our continuing efforts to implement the agreement and achieve political progress in Northern Ireland, I know I can count on your continued support. We in Ireland deeply appreciate your generosity, your friendship and the good will and encouragement of the United States.

I'm very pleased, therefore, to present you with this shamrock as a token of our esteem and heartfelt gratitude for all that you, Mr. President and the United States have done for my country and for all the people of Ireland. Thank you.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Taoiseach thank you very much and welcome back to the White House. Laura and I are delighted to continue the tradition of accepting the crystal bowl overflowing with shamrocks. It's a wonderful gift symbolizing Ireland's world-renowned hospitality, today as a joyous celebration of the deep friendship between the Irish and American peoples. The histories and bloodlines of our two countries are deeply intertwined. And that is why in cities and towns across our nation, millions of Americans celebrate this feast day of the apostle of Ireland.

St. Patrick used the three leaves of the shamrock to illustrate the mystery of the Trinity. Shamrock has also come to represent the unity that people can achieve when they commit themselves to peace and freedom. In America we have a phrase for that. It's called, "E Pluribus Unum." Out of many, one. You'll find that on the great seal of the United States. Which by the way, was largely designed by Charles Thompson, a native of Derry.

The hearts of the Irish burn for freedom. And they brought that love for liberty with them to America. The Irish fought in our nation's War of Independence. And over the past two centuries, they devoted their blood and sweat to defending and building America. When terrorists struck our nation, the Irish were well represented among the firefighters and police officers who sacrificed their lives to save others at the World Trade Center.

In a great Irish tradition, Marines preparing to retake the city of Fallujah prepared for battle to the strains of Lieutenant Colonel Paul Sweeney's bagpipes echoing across the Iraqi plains.

The Irish have a way of the turning adversity into opportunity. About a million came to our shores seeking refuge from the Great Potato Famine. Once they came, they built and they toiled and they produced. They constructed railroads and great cathedrals, even helped build the U.S. Capitol. They added to our literature with the genius with their words. And of course, a few even entered politics. Irish talent for statesmanship has been evident on both sides of the Atlantic.

And today, we're proud to welcome a friend of peace and a friend of freedom, my good friend Bertie Ahern. Mr. Prime Minister, I want to thank you for your tireless work in the struggle against terrorism on St. Patrick's Island.

I appreciate your leadership. I appreciate your strength of character. I appreciate your vision. It takes courage to work the path -- to walk the path of peace. And your leadership, Mr. Prime Minister, is appreciated not only in your nation but in ours, as well. As you work for peace, our government and the American people will stand with you.

Today, America and Ireland are united in many ways. The economies of our two countries are closely tied. We're working together to bring freedom and just to Afghanistan and the Balkans, and other countries that have not known it. We share a common commitment to the values preached by St. Patrick, liberty under God, and the dignity of all human persons. Taoiseach, we pay tribute to the role of the Irish it played in defending and renewing the ideals that Americans cherish. May our friendship remain steadfast and may the citizens of both our nations enjoy a happy and blessed St. Patrick's Day.

Welcome back.

(APPLAUSE)

KAGAN: And with that, you have the friendly exchange. They are leaving. The Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern and President Bush doing the exchange of shamrocks. They do it every St. Patrick's Day.

Now the newsworthy part of today's ceremony is who was invited to the White House and who was not. With more on that, let's bring in our Elaine Quijano, who is there -- Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Daryn.

That's right, President Bush making a statement not only with his and his words, but also his actions, specifically by not inviting Gerry Adams, the leader of Sinn Fein, the political arm of the Irish Republican Army. That an intentional choice. The president choosing this year not to invite him, despite the fact that Gerry Adams since 1995 has, in fact, taken part in the White House St. Patrick's Day celebrations.

Now, President Bush and U.S. officials are making a conscious decision to send a message, they say, that they are not at all happy with the Irish Republican Army. We should tell that you, instead today President Bush, in addition to the ceremony you just saw, will also be meeting a short time from now with the McCartney sisters. Now their brother, Robert, was killed outside a Belfast bar by people they believe are members of the Irish Republican Army, people they believe also intimidated the witnesses who were present, cleaned up the crime scene, they believe, and intimidated those witnesses into not talking to police.

Well, they have a campaign to try to bring their brother's killer to justice. They want to send the word out that they feel the IRA is out of control. President Bush today, as I mentioned, a short time from now, in fact, will be sitting down with them, or will be meeting with them rather. They met already yesterday with Senators Kennedy and Clinton here in Washington. But they very much want to focus the spotlight on what is happening not only with their brother's case, but with the larger peace process as well.

U.S. officials saying that they are quite unhappy with the IRA, with what they see as the, quote, "thuggery," end quote, and the ongoing paramilitary activity. So President Bush today set to meet with the McCartney sisters, the Bush administration saying that the activities by the IRA certainly a step back from the peace process. Now they would like to see all parties renounce this kind of violence. They want to see a movement back towards that good Friday peace agreement -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Elaine Quijano at the White House, thank you.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: So the question is, who are the McCartney sisters? And what is it that they want from the IRA?

CNN chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour got a chance to sit down and talk to the women just before they left Belfast.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Surrounded by TV crews wherever they go, these are perhaps the most famous sisters in the world right now: Donna, Genma, Katherine and Claire McCartney. Their daring fight to bring their brother Robert's murderers to justice has made them instant celebrities. Because even as they're snapped by "People" magazine, they know they are pursuing some of the most dangerous people in the world: members of the Irish Republican Army, the I.R.A.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just keep thinking Robert. And then -- and how important it is to get these people to court.

AMANPOUR: And that's what they'll tell President Bush when they meet him at the White House on St. Patrick's Day.

We sat down with the McCartney sisters as they were about to leave Belfast. Even today, nearly two months later, talking of their brother's murder reduces them to tears.

They tell us that witnesses say Robert and his friend Brendon Divine were having a few drinks in this Belfast pub January 30 when a senior I.R.A. man accused them of insulting one of his friends. Claire, Robert's youngest sister, says that she was told he and his friend Brendon Divine apologized and bought them a round of drinks.

CLAIRE MCCARTNEY, ROBERT MCCARTNEY'S SISTER: At which point the senior Republican says, do you know who I am? And Brendon Divine says, I don't care who you are. And then the next minute, there was a bottle broke on Brendon Divine's head. And a bottle stuck in his neck, and his head was yanked back and his throat was cut.

AMANPOUR: That's when all hell broke loose. Witnesses told the sisters that Robert got his bleeding injured friend out of the bar, but a group of men followed them.

C. MCCARTHNEY: And at least five or six of them pursued Robert up an alley, beating him with sticks. And...

AMANPOUR: Claire can't finish the story, because it's too hard to talk about what happened next.

Witnesses have told them their brother was beaten and stabbed. And men even jumped on his face.

They left Robert and his friend Brendon for dead in the alley behind the pub. Brendon survived his severe wounds, but Robert died in hospital with his sisters at his battered side.

Besides his sisters, Robert left behind a fiancee and their two young children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just can't believe he's gone, you know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You all right?

AMANPOUR: Now that he's gone, though, the five sisters have gone all out to seek answers. They even met with the I.R.A. Counsel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We asked the I.R.A. Council why, what was the reason for killing Robert? And they responded quite promptly there was no reason.

AMANPOUR: There seems to be no doubt the killers were members of the I.R.A., because afterwards the I.R.A. made the sisters an extraordinary offer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, they were prepared to use the old traditional I.R.A. method.

AMANPOUR: What is that? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Execution.

AMANPOUR: They told you that they would execute his killers?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yep.

AMANPOUR: And you said no?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE; No. We decided that justice was better for Robert in the conventional method, which is bring them through the courts.

AMANPOUR: The sisters were, in fact, disgusted by that offer and so were many in Northern Ireland. But so far they've had no luck getting the killers to court.

(on camera): You know who did it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yep.

AMANPOUR: You know who these killers are?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

AMANPOUR: Do you see them? Are they walking around?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

AMANPOUR: Where are they?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're in the street. I passed one the other day. The senior Republican, I passed him. He was coming back from the local shop standing brazenly in the street talking to someone.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): The McCartney sisters said they thought there would be quick arrests, since everyone, even the police, know who the main suspects are.

(on camera): And why do you think that hasn't happened?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Intimidation.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): So far, witnesses have been too afraid to come forward.

(on camera): There was something like 70 people in this bar?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 70 people in the bar, and nobody's seen anything.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): After the murder, the senior I.R.A. member at the pub allegedly ordered all forensic evidence cleaned up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the individual then destroyed the weapon, destroyed the knife, seized CCTV footage and burnt it and burnt the murderer's clothes. And then went into the bar and basically told everyone in the bar that it was I.R.A. business and nobody was to say anything and that they saw nothing.

AMANPOUR: But Robert McCartney's murder was so brutal and senseless that many in the Catholic community came out for a rare public display of support for the family. At least three members of Sinn Fein, the I.R.A.'s political wing, were also in the bar the night of the murder. They too say they saw nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They haven't came forward yet. At one level Gerry Adams is saying people should come forward to the police ombudsman. He said himself that he would do that, but yet his party members have not done that.

AMANPOUR: The McCartney sisters say the world should know the I.R.A. is squandering its historic position as defender of Catholic rights.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This has all been dispelled by these individuals, by the night they murdered Robert for no reason.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just takes some people to stand up and say, no, we're not having any more. And that's what we're doing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We didn't think for one minute we were going to have to go through this. If it comes to it, we're going to have to do what some families in this country have had to do and battle for 30 years, we will do it. The truth will come out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: We have some developing news that we need to share with you. We've just been told by authorities, and CNN can confirm, that there is a major development in the case of that 9-year-old girl Jessica Lunsford missing for quite some time from Homosassa Springs, Florida.

Sara Dorsey, our CNN producer, is joining us now on the phone to bring us up to date. Sara, we know that for the last 24 hours, they've been looking for a person of interest. She related to this development?

SARA DORSEY, CNN PRODUCER: Absolutely. We're hearing that 46- year-old John Couey -- this is the man that police told us about yesterday -- has been arrested. Citrus county authorities confirm that to us a short time ago, that he has been arrested. What they are not telling us is where at. We were told originally that he had purchased a bus ticket under a different name to Savannah, Georgia. He was picked up by Savannah police at one point, questioned, but then because of the lack of jurisdiction there, they could not hold him, and that's when got away. But as we just learned, he is in custody and now Citrus County authorities will be questioning him from here.

SANCHEZ: Do we know, Sara, why authorities were looking for him to begin with? What's his relationship to the family or this case, if any? DORSEY: He has no relationship to the family. But what he is a convicted sex offender. He was living in a home very near to the one that Jessica Lunsford disappeared from and he wasn't supposed to be there. Sex offenders are suppose to register. And this man was registered, but at a different address. When investigators went to the home to talk to his family, to ask if indeed he had been staying there, they lied to investigators. And then things started to snowball from there.

The Citrus County Sheriff's Office got interested in this gentleman because there were so many things that weren't adding up. And that's why they decided to name him a person of interest. And they said they wanted to get more information from him.

SANCHEZ: So safe to say at this point there is no information that he'd ever come in contact either with the family or with little Jessica?

DORSEY: Well, basically we know that -- the sheriff's office is saying that there's no physical evidence, or at least they're not releasing that if there is. Jessica Lunsford's family says they've never seen the guy. After the picture went out on the news last night, they got a look at it, said they've never seen and don't know who he is. But the sheriff says they believe he could have some information that may be useful in this case.

SANCHEZ: Sara, we're getting information -- I don't know if you can possibly confirm. I heard at the beginning, you were saying in your report, that you weren't sure where authorities had picked him up. But sources here are telling us that he was picked up in Georgia, perhaps in the area of Savannah, Georgia. Is there anything you can add to that?

DORSEY: Yes, that was the place originally that we thought he was supposed to be at. Again, there was a bus ticket purchased by his niece and it was purchased under a different name. He left this area, Citrus County, Florida, saying that law enforcement might be looking for him. Of course, law enforcement got word of all this, that he was leaving, that he was telling people this, and that's when they decided they needed to go after this guy. So no surprise that he was found in Savannah. Last night, whenever his name and picture was released, the sheriff said they believed he was probably still in that area.

SANCHEZ: That's interesting. You know, the information that we're getting, just to clear it up for the sake of those of us who are now joining us, is that there has been someone who has been taken into custody, not necessarily arrested at this point. And that it is indeed a person of interest who has been taken into custody in the Savannah area. We can't officially put those two together and say it is indeed John Evander Couey. Although, Sara, from the information you're telling us, it would not be a dangerous assumption at this point, correct?

DORSEY: Right, and the Citrus County Sheriff's Office here, in Citrus Country, where we are at, confirmed to us that he has been arrested. The thing they wouldn't tell us that CNN sources are saying is that it was Savannah. But we have gotten confirmation that it is the man in custody, according to Citrus Country sheriff's officials here.

SANCHEZ: Sara, what does this tell us about this case when you consider that the very beginning, so many people were looking obviously first at the family, looking at the father and the grandfather and the grandmother who were staying with the child. Does that pretty much mean that those three are in the clear, if the police are turning their focus in another direction, in a very directed focus, I should say, with this Couey gentleman?

DORSEY: Well, it actually doesn't mean that at all. The sheriff said, you know, today that he is not ruling anyone out at this point, including the family. Everyone is still in. He's still looking at everyone. This person of interest is merely someone, at this point, at least, someone that they want to talk to. His name has come up several times in the course of this investigation.

As we said, it looked like some people were covering for him as he was moving along, not telling authorities everything they had been asking. That's really when the sheriff here got interested in finding this man to understand what the true story is and just to see, does he know anything? The sheriffs did a press conference, telling us, you know, we may get this man, talk to him and be able to clear him. But he is a person of interest. Now keep in mind that means the family is still not out. The sheriff says he's still looking at everyone that could possibly be involved, including this person of interest.

KAGAN: Sara, I'm going to jump in here. We talk about people covering up for this man. Are police giving any more clues about that? Who would possibly, in the search for a little girl, not want to give all information possible?

DORSEY: Basically, when it comes to this person of interest, we are hearing it was a niece of this man that bought a bus trip for him under an assumed name. And also I believe an aunt of his that he was staying with at that home who, whenever investigators came to the door knocking saying, hey, has he been here, we heard he's been here. That person initially lied to investigators saying that he hadn't been here. It was found out later, though, that that indeed was a lie and John Couey had been staying in that home just really across the street from where Jessica Lunsford disappeared.

KAGAN: And, Sara, in this case, are police operating under the assumption that they believe Sara is alive -- I'm sorry, that Jessica is alive?

DORSEY: They say they remain hopeful, that their whole goal in this entire investigation is to bring her home alive. So if they're having thoughts that possibly that is not the case, they are not sharing it with the media at this time.

KAGAN: The other thing that came up the other day that I think caught a lot of people's interest were the different lie detector tests that have been given to the family members. The grandfather cleared, the father cleared. There were a couple red flags, though, they said, on the grandmother's lie detector. Tell us more about that.

DORSEY: Yes, that's right. There was two red flags that came up according to the sheriff. Now they won't elaborate on what the questioning, the line of questioning, was whenever those red flags came up, just saying that there were a few things that piqued their interest. Now once that happened, the FBI kind of takes the grandma and they interviewed her quite a bit more.

And the sheriff came back saying you know, stress is an issue when it comes to these tests. And it is a possibility that those red flags were raised because the grandmother is stressed. However, again, he says red flags were raised. And that means no one in the family is ruled out at this point.

SANCHEZ: Sara, police are telling us that Couey has a lengthy criminal record. What do we know of his past?

DORSEY: Well, we know that he has a record that spans...

KAGAN: All right. It would appear that we've lost our Sara Dorsey on the phone, bringing us up-to-date. The update here, this is the search for the missing 9-year-old girl Jessica Lunsford out of Homosassa Springs, Florida. She's been missing since February 23rd and police have been looking for this man, this person of interest, a convicted sex offender, John Evander Couey.

SANCHEZ: We also have Rhonda Evan, Daryn, who's standing by right now. She's with Citrus County law enforcement. I don't know what particular agency you're with, Rhonda, but if you'd be good enough to share that information, there are a couple of questions we'd like to ask you. How are you this morning?

RHONDA HEMMINGER EVAN, CITRUS CO. SHERIFF'S DEPT: Sure, thank you. This is Rhonda Hemminger Evan. I am with the Citrus County Sheriff's Office.

SANCHEZ: What information can you share with us at this point?

EVAN: I can tell you that John Couey has just been taken into custody within the last hour. He was taken into custody in Richmond County in Georgia and that is in the town of Augusta.

SANCHEZ: For what reason was he taken into custody?

EVAN: He was picked up on a warrant charge.

SANCHEZ: Related to the Lunsford case?

EVAN: No, it is not related to the Lunsford case, but he will be held so that our detectives, who are en route, can question him because he is a person of interest. He has not been named a suspect in this case.

SANCHEZ: Would you explain to our viewers why he's a person of interest in the Lunsford case? EVAN: As we were investigating the disappearance of Jessica Lunsford, we obviously were looking in different arenas and people who may have known Jessica or come in contact with her. One of the other avenues that we pursue are registered sex offenders in the area due to the suspicious nature of the case and how she went missing. He was someone who was registered in Citrus County as a sexual offender, but was not living at the address that he had listed. He was actually living in much closer proximity to Jessica Lunsford.

That was the very first thing that caught our attention. Beyond that, there were several other things that kept pointing us in his direction. Again, nothing that ties him directly to the case. But enough that investigators would like to speak with him, and either rule him out, if he has nothing to do with Jessica's disappearance.

SANCHEZ: Has he ever come in contact, as far as you know, with the Lunsford family or Jessica in particular?

EVAN: No. To our knowledge, the family has said that they do not know John Couey. And, of course, we wish we could find Jessica. That would be a question, obviously, we would have for her. And it is obviously a question we will have for Mr. Couey, if he knows Jessica Lunsford or ever came in contact with her.

SANCHEZ: We thank you so much, Rhonda Evan, for joining us with that information and bringing us up-to-date. So the bottom line on this, as we hear you say it, is that, in fact, he has been taken into custody, but for an unrelated case, correct?

EVAN: He's in jail for a warrant violation of probation charge, but he is being held and again, we will question him in reference to this case.

SANCHEZ: Thank you so much for clearing that up for us. We appreciate your time.

KAGAN: Well, even with this development, unfortunately for the family the big question remains unanswered and that is where is Jessica Lunsford and what happened to her? Our Sara Dorsey live now from Homosassa Springs, Florida -- Sara.

DORSEY: Well, of course, it's been three week since Jessica disappeared and up until this point, there have been no significant leads. Of course, the sheriff came out last night, giving us that name of the person of interest, John Couey. As you just heard from the sheriff's spokeswoman, this man was picked up. He's in custody in Augusta, Georgia, now. That is not for this particular case. He was picked up on a warrant for violating his probation, but the sheriff's office does plan on going down there and questioning him.

The red flags that really popped up that made this man a person of interest is really the fact that he was staying in a home that he wasn't supposed to, that he wasn't registered to stay in, very near the one that Jessica disappeared from. He's a registered sex offender. He has a long criminal history. And also some family members had lie to investigators when they came knocking for information, and that's really what made this man a person of interest and what made authorities interested in talking to him.

KAGAN: And, Sara, let me just jump in here for a second, Because these are new pictures we're getting into CNN. This is from our affiliate WAGT in Augusta, Georgia. This is John Couey being taken into custody, and these pictures taken earlier this morning.

As you're saying they're on charges unrelated, but the reason this is a big deal is because they want to be able to talk to him. Had he ever met with Jessica Lunsford and does he know what happened to her?

Sara?

DORSEY: That's right. We do not believe he met Jessica Lunsford, according at least to the family. They say they've never seen this man. When his picture was released last night, they all watched it, and said no, that's no one that we really know. But the only one who will be able to answer those questions is John Couey himself and Jessica Lunsford, and of course, as you know, Daryn, she's still missing.

MARCIANO: I wonder if they've searched his home, and if there's any indication that they may found anything that would lead them to naming him a person of interest.

DORSEY: Well, I'll tell you, the sheriff was very, very hesitant about answering that question last night in a press conference. But he did say that they home that he was staying in, they were able to get in there, and they took a few items away for testing. He would not go any further than that, and actually warned us, you know, no more questioning on that line. So we don't really understand what it was that they could have gotten. But we do know that it was nothing of Jessica's.

So we know that Jessica disappeared with a toy. That was not something that they found in that house. They just took a few items. They said they're going to test those things, and then hopefully after they interview this man, we'll know if he will remain a person of interesting.

SANCHEZ: What was the distance between Mr. Couey's home and the Lunsford home?

DORSEY: Not far. I wouldn't say it's exactly across the street, but it is kind of across the street and catty (ph) corner. You can see the Lunsford house from the home he was staying in. So really just yards away, not too far at all.

KAGAN: And of course one of the problems was that the place that John Couey was staying was not the home he was supposed to be staying in. As a registered sex offender, he was supposed to be staying someplace else, which would have been far away from any children.

DORSEY: That's right, Daryn. You know, in the laws of the state, you have to stay a certain amount away from schools and different places. There are restrictions that are put on sex offenders once they're out, and it's not a big deal. As long as you're in the area you're supposed to be in and you register, you're OK.

But apparently, whenever police started looking into all the sex offenders in the area, this guy came up as not being where he was supposed to be, and then things started to snowball from there as they started to question out where he was, and then they found where he might be staying, and they saw that people were covering up for him. All those things have led to him being a person of interest, because police just need to understand what the circumstances are. Does he know anything? Could he be involved? All of those are questions that are still unanswered.

KAGAN: Here another question for you, the timing. We're three weeks into this. Why has it taken this long for police to name him as a person of interest. It would seems one of the first things they would do is check the registered sex offenders in the area and check up on them.

DORSEY: Well, and that is one of the first things that they did do, but they start in close proximity to the home. And this particular man, who was a registered sex offender, wasn't in that particular group. So when they threw the net out, he didn't come back right away.

As they expanded the search to the entire county, that's when his name came up, that's when investigators started to dig, and that's when this all of this started to snowball. That's why it's taken so long.

SANCHEZ: One wonders how long he's been in that area. And I ask that question in reference, Sara, to a report that we received here at CNN that says that -- and I'll quote this for you, "He's prone to violence when under the influence of alcohol or drugs." Why would they be saying that unless somebody in the community knows that, or he's come in contact with people there?

DORSEY: You know, I don't know exactly why they would be saying that. I do know if you look at this guy's rap sheet, it's long. And I believe that I do remember seeing an alcohol offense of some sort on there. I don't know who said that, and I don't know exactly where that information is coming from. But he is known to this area. I mean, I believe he's been around here for a while, and he's been in Florida for quite some time. The 1991 sex offense that he actually admitted to was out of the Florida area as well. So that's, you know, well over 10 years ago.

SANCHEZ: We should bring up for the sake of those who may be joining us now, we've been on this coverage now for the better part of 20 minutes or so, that indeed John Evander Couey has been picked up near Augusta, Georgia. However, he's been picked up on a warrant unrelated to the case of the little girl who'd been for some time in Homosassa Springs. However, police say they will be questioning him regarding the disappearance of this little girl.

Jessica Lunsford has been missing since February 23rd. And our Sara Dorsey is in Florida, helping us with our coverage there. Sara, bring our viewers up to date about once again about that this man is a registered sex offender living close by, but not registered to be living as close as he was to the Lunsford home.

DORSEY: That's right, Daryn, John Couey was a man that was just looked at because all sex offenders were looked at whenever Jessica Lunsford went missing. Now he wasn't a part of the original group, which people that were registered close to her home. But when those folks checked out and didn't really put up any red flags, investigators moved to a wider area, more of the registered sex offenders in the entire county. That's when they came across this man's name, and found out that he wasn't in the home he was registered to be in.

At that point, they went looking for him. They got some word that he was possibly staying with a family member, really across the street from where Jessica Lunsford disappeared from.

Now when they went knocking on the door asking questions, the family lie to officers at first saying no, he never stayed here, then the course of this investigation, the investigators found out that that indeed was a lie. And that, paired with other things, made the sheriff decide that he wanted to put this man's name and picture out and call him a person of interest so they could find him and question him and get more information to see if he knows anything about where Jessica Lunsford might be.

KAGAN: Sara Dorsey, live from Florida, thank you for that. We're going to cut you loose, let you get some more information for us and bring it to us at the top of our next hour. We'll bring you the latest on the search for the missing little girl, Jessica Lunsford, and this arrest that could be related to the case.

Also baseball on Capitol Hill.

SANCHEZ: The very latest on steroids. A lot of big names are stepping up to the plate on Capitol Hill. They're going to be talking about what they know or don't know about the steroid scandal in baseball. That and a whole lot more.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired March 17, 2005 - 10:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR: We have a lot on deck. Literally...
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Yes. It's a good choice of words.

KAGAN: ... to watch what's happening on Capitol Hill today. Some of the biggest names in baseball waiting to testify on the steroids issue.

SANCHEZ: Interesting combo there with two of them. I wonder if they're going to be bashing each other.

KAGAN: Jose Canseco and Mark McGuire.

SANCHEZ: The former bash brothers, no longer kissing cousins.

Well, here's what's happening right now in the news.

Big name baseball players, as Daryn was just talking about, major league officials are testifying today about steroid use in baseball. And the parents of two young athletes who committed suicide after taking steroids are going to be testifying.

These are live pictures that you are looking at right now. We do have a tentative schedule, so from time to time we're going to be going into this depending on who is testifying at that time. Some members of Congress are complaining that baseball's new drug testing policy isn't tough enough. All that throughout this newscast.

Also, police in Florida want to talk to this man that you're looking at right there about the disappearance of a 9-year-old girl. A warrant has been issued now for John Evander Couey. The convicted sex offender was last seen in Savannah, Georgia, Saturday. Police say that Couey had been staying near Jessica Lunsford's home. Lunsford has been missing now, as you may know, for three weeks.

Scott Peterson is now on San Quentin's death row. Peterson was taken by van from county jail to the prison before daybreak. Yesterday, a judge formally sentenced Peterson to die for the killing of his wife and his unborn son.

Also a short time ago, President Bush nominated Congressman Robert Portman to a position of U.S. trade representative. Portman would become the White House -- really the point person for free trade agreements. He must still be confirmed by the Senate, of course. The Ohio Republican has served six terms in the House. And the Senate Armed Services Committee is right now, as a matter of fact these are live pictures you're looking at of Senator Warner, looking into global threats to the United States. CIA director Porter Goss is among those that are testifying before the panel. After the open session wraps up, lawmakers will go behind closed doors for the second half of the hearing.

So as you can see, we've got a lot on tap for you this morning. I'm Rick Sanchez.

KAGAN: Rick McSanchez for purposes of St. Patrick's Day.

SANCHEZ: Thank you very much.

KAGAN: That would make me Daryn O'Kagan...

SANCHEZ: You got it.

KAGAN: ... this morning.

This moment, a big day on Capitol Hill; an all-star roster of baseball players both past and present on deck, as we're referring to on Capitol Hill. So batter up. The issue of steroids in Major League Baseball under the microscope today, as well as some of the biggest boppers in the sport's history.

Our Congressional correspondent Ed Henry joins us from the A-Team on Capitol Hill, where the hearing is about to get under way.

Ed, good morning.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. You know, getting a seat in that hearing room where you see Chairman Tom Davis beginning the hearing now is almost, almost as difficult as getting a World Series ticket. In fact, people from the general public were waiting outside the hearing room in the hallway since 4:00 yesterday afternoon, just to get in to this hearing to see some of those players testify today.

They will actually not be coming up for a few hours. There will be experts testifying first before them. But eventually in the starting lineup will be, of course, Jose Canseco. We're expecting some real fireworks. Because he will be at the same witness table as you mentioned earlier as Mark McGuire and Rafael Palmeiro. Two of the players that, in his new book, Canseco accuses of using steroids.

We've gotten a sneak speak already at Rafael Palmeiro's opening statement. And at the very beginning he says, quote, "I've never used steroids, period. Never." And so that may have to prompt some of the other players, like McGuire, to address that very question under oath. And that is why a lot of these lawmakers were eager to get the players to testify.

The committee wants to zero in on two key questions. First of all, how widespread is steroid abuse in baseball? Canseco has suggested it is rampant. Others are saying that he has exaggerated. They want to get to the bottom of that. The second question will put commissioner Bud Selig in the hot seat. That is, is baseball's new testing and punishment process, is that new policy for real? Is it tough, or is it riddled with loopholes? In fact, some people, like Senator John McCain, are now saying that Major League Baseball misled Congress and the public about how tough that steroid policy really is.

And finally, some people even before the hearing got going were saying that it is going to wind up being a farce. Because the players have actually not been granted immunity from prosecution association, so some are saying that they will not be candid. But I can tell you lawmakers on that committee are saying that the players should not need immunity from prosecution in order to tell the truth under oath.

They say they should just be candid whether they get immunity or not. And also some lawmakers say that if Jose Canseco and others start taking the Fifth Amendment, that in and of itself may be quite revealing -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Ed, looking ahead, besides turning this hearing room on Capitol Hill into spring training All-Star game, what can these hearings actually lead to?

HENRY: Well, what you hear from a lot of lawmakers in both parties is that while they face accusations of grandstanding, of course. And that they're just trying to grab headlines, what they say is that actually a new government report points out that over a million kids have tried steroids. And we're going to hear from witnesses this morning who say that those kids wind up with liver problem, wind up sometimes with cancer, sometimes wind up with depression that leads to suicide.

And so lawmakers say that these Major League Ball players are role models to the kids. And they may want to look at legislation down the road that will actually crack down, not just on baseball, but maybe a uniform standard for steroid testing all across the board: football, baseball, hockey, you name it.

So that's why a lot of the sports leagues, not just baseball are looking at this closely. In fact, Ted Barrett, the CNN congressional producer, earlier found out that the second person online waiting to get into this hearing room was a lawyer from NASCAR. I can tell you all the sports leagues; all the others are looking at this hearing very closely.

KAGAN: So that's how those cars go that fast? It's steroids. I was wondering about that.

(LAUGHTER)

HENRY: Exactly.

KAGAN: All right. Ed Henry on Capitol Hill, thank you for that.

SANCHEZ: They put in it the transmission fluid.

So how are these hearings seen from inside baseball? Joining us for that now is Ken Rosenthal. He's baseball insider columnist for "The Sporting News." He's also an author. And he's good to join us now from Baltimore.

Let me ask you straight out. Is there any question in your mind that many baseball players take steroids? And that it has had an effect on the records?

KEN ROSENTHAL, COLUMNIST, "THE SPORTING NEWS": There's no question in my mind, Rick, that baseball players have used steroids. We know that from results of the 2003 tests, when 5 percent to 7 percent of the tests came back positive. So I don't think it is in dispute that players have taken steroids over the years.

SANCHEZ: Has it had an effect on the records?

ROSENTHAL: Yes. I definitely think it has. And I think the way you've seen the records evolve over the last 10 years, the numbers have basically increased exponentially and in leaps that we never expected before that amazed us. And I think it has become apparent that one of the reasons this has happened is because players have used performance-enhancing drugs.

SANCHEZ: Whose fault is it? Is it the players or is it the league's fault? The players after all, as you know, if you've played any ball yourself will take any advantage, including steeling the catcher's signals to get ahead and perform better.

ROSENTHAL: It's both sides' fault. And in my mind, baseball should have been more aware of the problem, should have pressed the issue starting, I don't know, in the mid '90s, perhaps even earlier. Their reason is that they couldn't force the union, couldn't get the union to agree in a collective bargaining situation to have steroid testing. So the union, of course, bears some blame as well. They fought this bitterly for years.

SANCHEZ: Let me differ with you if I could, here. How do you tell a 19-year-old kid graduating from high school, who is possibly contemplating taking steroids and knows it will probably increase his salary by about oh, let's say $50 million, and give him a chance to play in the bigs? That even though someone else is doing it, he shouldn't? How do you say that to a 19-year-old kid?

ROSENTHAL: How about fact that, Rick, that it is illegal without a prescription to use many of these anabolic steroids. I think that's a pretty strong reason to tell someone not to use those drugs. It's against the law.

SANCHEZ: But that's my point. Shouldn't baseball have stepped in somewhere along the line and said look, no, fine, over, you're not allowed to use them. Period.

ROSENTHAL: That's my point. I think that should have happened a long time ago. And frankly, I think Selig and Fehr, the head of the sport, Bud Selig and Donald Fehr, the head of the union, should be held accountable for what has happened. To me, the point of this hearing today should be to keep these guys under pressure. Baseball had a situation when they had no testing until 2003, then they adopted testing. Congress brought these guys in, the tests wasn't sufficient. They adopted tougher testing.

To me, that should be the goal here. Get the toughest testing available, and then you'd have some real progress.

SANCHEZ: Let me show you something. This is a poll that was done on "USA Today." In fact, it was the headline yesterday in "USA Today" newspaper. It says -- this is a poll of the players, incidentally. Players! And it asked them, "Have steroids played a role in record-breaking performances?" Seventy-nine percent say steroids have played a role. That's almost 80 percent.

ROSENTHAL: Sure.

SANCHEZ: If anyone knows about this it would be the players, would it not?

ROSENTHAL: Sure, Rick. And again, I don't think it is in dispute that performance-enhancing drugs indeed enhance performance. That's the point of players taking them. And for years, some union people said oh, they don't really have an effect. It is hand/eye coordination, hitting a baseball and all that. Well, that is all true. But there's an extra effect that performance-enhancing drugs provide. And we've seen that in the sport both with hitters and with pitchers.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Makes someone who is good great and someone who's maybe great even greater.

Before you go, any fireworks? What do you expect today from all these guys getting on there? I'm especially interested in what you think about Canseco getting together with his old pal McGuire, standing shoulder to shoulder?

ROSENTHAL: I think it will be very uncomfortable seeing those guys together. Frankly, what I expect, Rick, is a single season record established for invoking the Fifth Amendment. I don't think any of these guys are going to speak their minds. Because I think they're afraid that their achievements will be tarnished, they could be afraid of further prosecution. For the congressman to suggest oh, they should just speak the truth because they're here, I don't think that is very enlightened thinking. They know better than that.

SANCHEZ: We're going to do this now. Ken, stick around. Maybe we'll be able to get you back on this. But let's go into the committee now and hear from Henry Waxman. He's one of the chairmen of this committee and let's hear how he's opening the session today.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: Kids get the message when it appears that it is OK for professional athletes to use steroids. If the pros do it, college athletes will do it, too. And if it's an edge in college, high school students want that edge, too. There's a pyramid of steroid use in society. And today our investigation starts where it should, with the owners and players at the top of that pyramid. Congress first investigated steroids and drug use in professional sports over 30 years ago. I think perhaps only two people in this room would have knowledge of that or would remember it. That would be commissioner Selig and myself. He was an owner in 1970 and I was elected to Congress in 1974. Well, the year before I ran for Congress, the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce, which I served all of my time in Congress as a member in addition to this committee, concluded a yearlong investigation.

And they concluded, quote, "Drug use exists in all sports and in all levels of competition. In some instances, the degree of improper drug use, primarily amphetamines and anabolic steroids, can only be described as alarming." The committee's Chairman Harley Staggers was concerned about making these public...

KAGAN: And so there is an early taste, the opening statement by the ranking minority member of the House Government Reform Committee holding these hearings today on steroids. What we're really looking to listen to is Bud Selig, a baseball commissioner, also a top five list of some of the top ranking sluggers in baseball, as they testify about steroid or potential steroid use.

Keeping it on this story, health officials say they're seeing an ever-growing number of teenagers at least trying steroids. And they say that age group faces the greatest danger from the drug.

Our Dan Lothian now has one family's story of loss and also their resolve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In order to take his baseball skills to the varsity level.

DAN HOOTEN, FATHER: Taylor was on the starting lineup in his junior year.

LOTHIAN: He says his son started taking steroids, just like nine other student athletes at this competing high school have admitted doing.

I've had the kids in our area in Plano tell me that at least a third of the young men that are showing up on Friday night to play football are juicing.

LOTHIAN: Sports medicine experts, like Dr. Lyle Micheli of Children's Hospital in Boston, say steroid users are getting younger and younger because of increasing pressures.

DR. LYLE MICHELI, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL, BOSTON: And some of these kids are not in a position to draw the line. They just will do whatever it takes, they think, to compete.

LOTHIAN: Earlier this month in Madison, Connecticut, sick athletes from Daniel Hand High School were charged with possessing steroids. One is accused of selling the pills. Bought, police say, while on a family trip to Mexico. An alert teacher turned them in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was paying close attention to both the actions and the words of the students.

LOTHIAN: Other school districts are now responding aggressively to this problem. But CNN found teens who aren't deterred by threat or harmful consequences.

(on camera): And where better to find out what teens are saying about steroid use than on the internet? Chat rooms drowning with dialogue, some of it graphic from young men who say they're 15, 16, 17 years old, and they're obsessed with building the perfect body. Like this one, who says he's willing to try almost anything.

(voice-over): One complains of the bad job he did injecting himself. Another describes how he bled more than usual. This one brags about the attention he's getting from girls impressed with his new overnight physique. And a complaint from one about his bad acne, a result of juicing. Acne, doctors say, is just one of the milder side effects, which can range from mood swings to liver problems to growth issues.

MICHELI: If a kid's taking this in middle school when he's still growing, they may lose growth in the process.

LOTHIAN: But back in cyberspace where teens often obtain steroids, this apparent adult sings the praises of juicing, saying concerns are overblown. Tell that to the father of Taylor Hooten. The Texas 17 year old committed suicide in 2003. His family blames depression linked to steroid withdrawal.

Some of America's young athletes redefining the meaning of the phrase "no pain, no gain."

Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Several medical experts are scheduled to testify before Congress today. They're going to address what lawmakers call the central issue, the health risks of performance enhancing drugs.

Joining us to discuss that is Dr. TODD: Schlifstein, a sports medicine physician at New York University Medical Center.

Doctor, good morning.

DR. TODD: SCHLIFSTEIN, SPORTS MEDICINE, NYU MEDICAL CENTER: Good morning.

KAGAN: We're going to hear very soon from some of the top players in baseball. Why do we care whether or not they've been taking steroids?

SCHLIFSTEIN: Well, steroids have very serious side effects. And certainly the pyramid scheme they were talking about, meaning if athletes are using a certain percentage of it that slowly trickles down to the rest of society. Junior high school, high school has been well-documented use. Even in junior high is 1 percent to 2 percent using steroids.

KAGAN: All right. So let's say a 15-year-old kid is watching right now. What would you tell him if he's thinking about using steroids? What the effects could be?

SCHLIFSTEIN: Well, there are many side effects that he should be aware of. Short term and we're not even aware of many of the long term ones. First of all, if he's still in his growth spurt, it's going to close his growth plate so he can stop growing. Those growth plates are closed by the use of anabolic steroids.

Secondly, He can get liver tumors, benign, malignant tumors. He can get a heart attack even if he's young, acute blood clot. He can get toxic hepatitis. Some of these things are short term. And even when he's done using it, he's still at risk for some of these things later on.

KAGAN: One father is going to testify. And this man is going to come up very soon about how his son was a user of steroid, stopped using them, became so depressed that he committed suicide. Is there any link, scientifically, between steroid use and depression?

SCHLIFSTEIN: It has been documented about mood swings with steroid use. It hasn't been well-documented withdrawal or other side effects. But certainly depression would be thought to be one. If you have a large amount of hormone in your system and you suddenly remove it, you'd expect rapid mood swings, flattening of the affect and certainly a risk for depression as well.

KAGAN: But steroids are used for some things in medicine. They can be helpful drugs. It is not like you want to get rid of them totally.

SCHLIFSTEIN: Certainly! And that's why they're given by prescription only. There are prescription drugs only in the United States and should be kept that way. A lot of medical uses for steroids and there are different types of steroids also. There are Gluco-corticosteroids like prednisone, which you use for asthma; as opposed to anabolic steroids we're talking about here that you use for body or muscle growth.

KAGAN: Dr. Schlifstein, What will you be listening for today?

SCHLIFSTEIN: Well, I'll be curious to see what kind of side effects and what problems there are that people testify to. I certainly would be interested in to see what kind of testing they're planning on doing, implementing, as the testing they have now is a step in the right direction but needs to be upgraded.

KAGAN: Dr. Todd Schlifstein, thank you...

SCHLIFSTEIN: Thank you.

KAGAN: ... for giving us a little bit of scientific background on what we'll be listening to today.

Let's take a life picture right now from Capitol Hill. There's Henry Waxman, one of the two men calling this committee meeting, this hearing. And there's Bud Selig seated next to Rafael Palmeiro, the commissioner of baseball and one of the top sluggers.

Rafael Palmeiro has already put out a statement saying flat out he did not, has not ever done steroids. He will be making a short statement ahead. We're going to monitor this and you the best parts coming up.

SANCHEZ: Here's another story that we're going to be following for you throughout the day. A defeat for environmentalists but could bring some relief at the pump, so say many in the Republican ranks. It is a look at what Congress proposes to keep you from feeling pain at the pumps.

KAGAN: And from Northern Ireland to the nation's capital. Two sisters have a special message to deliver to President Bush on this St. Patrick's Day.

SANCHEZ: Also, a big cat on the prowl. He's caught on tape. But his whereabouts remain a mystery. That story, stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: If it's March 17, that means St. Patrick's day and the traditional Shamrock Ceremony with Irish President Bertie Ahern at the White House with President Bush. Let's listen in.

BERTIE AHERN, PRIME MINISTER, IRELAND: This is a heritage and symbol of inclusion that we're proud to share with all traditions on the island of Ireland, and the United States, and indeed today around the world.

Mr. President, today we also acknowledge the true and constant friendship, which we've received from this country for the efforts to secure peace and stability in Northern Ireland. You're even handed support and wise counsel continues to be an invaluable resource to us in our search for past lasting peace.

As you know, we were very close last December to bringing an end to the journey we first began with the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in April of 1998. The United States has been with us every step of the way. We greatly appreciate the work of your administration, of your Special Envoy Richard Reese.

Above all, I want to thank you for your personal interventions late last year to encourage the parties to face up to the challenges of peace and partnership, and to take the courageous steps required by this agreement.

We've come a long way, President, over the last seven-years, and we've achieved a great deal of progress in Northern Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement has positively transformed the political landscape. But we need to complete the work of achieving lasting peace and political partnership in Northern Ireland. We need to ensure that the agreement's vision of a new beginning to relationships is fully realized and secured for this and future generations.

That's what the people of Ireland, north and south, voted for in 1998, when they overwhelmingly endorsed the agreement. They did not vote, President, for an armed peace, neither did they vote for a criminal peace. They voted for a democratic peace. With your continued support and encouragement, we will deliver that outcome. My government remains as fully committed today as we were in 1998 to making the Good Friday Agreement work.

Recent events have damaged confidence, but they've also crystallized what must now be done to finalize the process and achieve stable partnership government in Northern Ireland. Partnership politics requires all parties to play their part. But if trust and confidence is to be established, tangibly evidence of commitments to a democratic peace is essential.

The political inclusion envisaged by the agreement can only be realized when those who aspire to share in government have brought definitive closure, the paramilitary capability and activity, including all forms of criminality.

Mr. President, in our continuing efforts to implement the agreement and achieve political progress in Northern Ireland, I know I can count on your continued support. We in Ireland deeply appreciate your generosity, your friendship and the good will and encouragement of the United States.

I'm very pleased, therefore, to present you with this shamrock as a token of our esteem and heartfelt gratitude for all that you, Mr. President and the United States have done for my country and for all the people of Ireland. Thank you.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Taoiseach thank you very much and welcome back to the White House. Laura and I are delighted to continue the tradition of accepting the crystal bowl overflowing with shamrocks. It's a wonderful gift symbolizing Ireland's world-renowned hospitality, today as a joyous celebration of the deep friendship between the Irish and American peoples. The histories and bloodlines of our two countries are deeply intertwined. And that is why in cities and towns across our nation, millions of Americans celebrate this feast day of the apostle of Ireland.

St. Patrick used the three leaves of the shamrock to illustrate the mystery of the Trinity. Shamrock has also come to represent the unity that people can achieve when they commit themselves to peace and freedom. In America we have a phrase for that. It's called, "E Pluribus Unum." Out of many, one. You'll find that on the great seal of the United States. Which by the way, was largely designed by Charles Thompson, a native of Derry.

The hearts of the Irish burn for freedom. And they brought that love for liberty with them to America. The Irish fought in our nation's War of Independence. And over the past two centuries, they devoted their blood and sweat to defending and building America. When terrorists struck our nation, the Irish were well represented among the firefighters and police officers who sacrificed their lives to save others at the World Trade Center.

In a great Irish tradition, Marines preparing to retake the city of Fallujah prepared for battle to the strains of Lieutenant Colonel Paul Sweeney's bagpipes echoing across the Iraqi plains.

The Irish have a way of the turning adversity into opportunity. About a million came to our shores seeking refuge from the Great Potato Famine. Once they came, they built and they toiled and they produced. They constructed railroads and great cathedrals, even helped build the U.S. Capitol. They added to our literature with the genius with their words. And of course, a few even entered politics. Irish talent for statesmanship has been evident on both sides of the Atlantic.

And today, we're proud to welcome a friend of peace and a friend of freedom, my good friend Bertie Ahern. Mr. Prime Minister, I want to thank you for your tireless work in the struggle against terrorism on St. Patrick's Island.

I appreciate your leadership. I appreciate your strength of character. I appreciate your vision. It takes courage to work the path -- to walk the path of peace. And your leadership, Mr. Prime Minister, is appreciated not only in your nation but in ours, as well. As you work for peace, our government and the American people will stand with you.

Today, America and Ireland are united in many ways. The economies of our two countries are closely tied. We're working together to bring freedom and just to Afghanistan and the Balkans, and other countries that have not known it. We share a common commitment to the values preached by St. Patrick, liberty under God, and the dignity of all human persons. Taoiseach, we pay tribute to the role of the Irish it played in defending and renewing the ideals that Americans cherish. May our friendship remain steadfast and may the citizens of both our nations enjoy a happy and blessed St. Patrick's Day.

Welcome back.

(APPLAUSE)

KAGAN: And with that, you have the friendly exchange. They are leaving. The Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern and President Bush doing the exchange of shamrocks. They do it every St. Patrick's Day.

Now the newsworthy part of today's ceremony is who was invited to the White House and who was not. With more on that, let's bring in our Elaine Quijano, who is there -- Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Daryn.

That's right, President Bush making a statement not only with his and his words, but also his actions, specifically by not inviting Gerry Adams, the leader of Sinn Fein, the political arm of the Irish Republican Army. That an intentional choice. The president choosing this year not to invite him, despite the fact that Gerry Adams since 1995 has, in fact, taken part in the White House St. Patrick's Day celebrations.

Now, President Bush and U.S. officials are making a conscious decision to send a message, they say, that they are not at all happy with the Irish Republican Army. We should tell that you, instead today President Bush, in addition to the ceremony you just saw, will also be meeting a short time from now with the McCartney sisters. Now their brother, Robert, was killed outside a Belfast bar by people they believe are members of the Irish Republican Army, people they believe also intimidated the witnesses who were present, cleaned up the crime scene, they believe, and intimidated those witnesses into not talking to police.

Well, they have a campaign to try to bring their brother's killer to justice. They want to send the word out that they feel the IRA is out of control. President Bush today, as I mentioned, a short time from now, in fact, will be sitting down with them, or will be meeting with them rather. They met already yesterday with Senators Kennedy and Clinton here in Washington. But they very much want to focus the spotlight on what is happening not only with their brother's case, but with the larger peace process as well.

U.S. officials saying that they are quite unhappy with the IRA, with what they see as the, quote, "thuggery," end quote, and the ongoing paramilitary activity. So President Bush today set to meet with the McCartney sisters, the Bush administration saying that the activities by the IRA certainly a step back from the peace process. Now they would like to see all parties renounce this kind of violence. They want to see a movement back towards that good Friday peace agreement -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Elaine Quijano at the White House, thank you.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: So the question is, who are the McCartney sisters? And what is it that they want from the IRA?

CNN chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour got a chance to sit down and talk to the women just before they left Belfast.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Surrounded by TV crews wherever they go, these are perhaps the most famous sisters in the world right now: Donna, Genma, Katherine and Claire McCartney. Their daring fight to bring their brother Robert's murderers to justice has made them instant celebrities. Because even as they're snapped by "People" magazine, they know they are pursuing some of the most dangerous people in the world: members of the Irish Republican Army, the I.R.A.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just keep thinking Robert. And then -- and how important it is to get these people to court.

AMANPOUR: And that's what they'll tell President Bush when they meet him at the White House on St. Patrick's Day.

We sat down with the McCartney sisters as they were about to leave Belfast. Even today, nearly two months later, talking of their brother's murder reduces them to tears.

They tell us that witnesses say Robert and his friend Brendon Divine were having a few drinks in this Belfast pub January 30 when a senior I.R.A. man accused them of insulting one of his friends. Claire, Robert's youngest sister, says that she was told he and his friend Brendon Divine apologized and bought them a round of drinks.

CLAIRE MCCARTNEY, ROBERT MCCARTNEY'S SISTER: At which point the senior Republican says, do you know who I am? And Brendon Divine says, I don't care who you are. And then the next minute, there was a bottle broke on Brendon Divine's head. And a bottle stuck in his neck, and his head was yanked back and his throat was cut.

AMANPOUR: That's when all hell broke loose. Witnesses told the sisters that Robert got his bleeding injured friend out of the bar, but a group of men followed them.

C. MCCARTHNEY: And at least five or six of them pursued Robert up an alley, beating him with sticks. And...

AMANPOUR: Claire can't finish the story, because it's too hard to talk about what happened next.

Witnesses have told them their brother was beaten and stabbed. And men even jumped on his face.

They left Robert and his friend Brendon for dead in the alley behind the pub. Brendon survived his severe wounds, but Robert died in hospital with his sisters at his battered side.

Besides his sisters, Robert left behind a fiancee and their two young children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just can't believe he's gone, you know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You all right?

AMANPOUR: Now that he's gone, though, the five sisters have gone all out to seek answers. They even met with the I.R.A. Counsel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We asked the I.R.A. Council why, what was the reason for killing Robert? And they responded quite promptly there was no reason.

AMANPOUR: There seems to be no doubt the killers were members of the I.R.A., because afterwards the I.R.A. made the sisters an extraordinary offer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, they were prepared to use the old traditional I.R.A. method.

AMANPOUR: What is that? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Execution.

AMANPOUR: They told you that they would execute his killers?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yep.

AMANPOUR: And you said no?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE; No. We decided that justice was better for Robert in the conventional method, which is bring them through the courts.

AMANPOUR: The sisters were, in fact, disgusted by that offer and so were many in Northern Ireland. But so far they've had no luck getting the killers to court.

(on camera): You know who did it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yep.

AMANPOUR: You know who these killers are?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

AMANPOUR: Do you see them? Are they walking around?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

AMANPOUR: Where are they?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're in the street. I passed one the other day. The senior Republican, I passed him. He was coming back from the local shop standing brazenly in the street talking to someone.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): The McCartney sisters said they thought there would be quick arrests, since everyone, even the police, know who the main suspects are.

(on camera): And why do you think that hasn't happened?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Intimidation.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): So far, witnesses have been too afraid to come forward.

(on camera): There was something like 70 people in this bar?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 70 people in the bar, and nobody's seen anything.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): After the murder, the senior I.R.A. member at the pub allegedly ordered all forensic evidence cleaned up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the individual then destroyed the weapon, destroyed the knife, seized CCTV footage and burnt it and burnt the murderer's clothes. And then went into the bar and basically told everyone in the bar that it was I.R.A. business and nobody was to say anything and that they saw nothing.

AMANPOUR: But Robert McCartney's murder was so brutal and senseless that many in the Catholic community came out for a rare public display of support for the family. At least three members of Sinn Fein, the I.R.A.'s political wing, were also in the bar the night of the murder. They too say they saw nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They haven't came forward yet. At one level Gerry Adams is saying people should come forward to the police ombudsman. He said himself that he would do that, but yet his party members have not done that.

AMANPOUR: The McCartney sisters say the world should know the I.R.A. is squandering its historic position as defender of Catholic rights.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This has all been dispelled by these individuals, by the night they murdered Robert for no reason.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just takes some people to stand up and say, no, we're not having any more. And that's what we're doing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We didn't think for one minute we were going to have to go through this. If it comes to it, we're going to have to do what some families in this country have had to do and battle for 30 years, we will do it. The truth will come out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: We have some developing news that we need to share with you. We've just been told by authorities, and CNN can confirm, that there is a major development in the case of that 9-year-old girl Jessica Lunsford missing for quite some time from Homosassa Springs, Florida.

Sara Dorsey, our CNN producer, is joining us now on the phone to bring us up to date. Sara, we know that for the last 24 hours, they've been looking for a person of interest. She related to this development?

SARA DORSEY, CNN PRODUCER: Absolutely. We're hearing that 46- year-old John Couey -- this is the man that police told us about yesterday -- has been arrested. Citrus county authorities confirm that to us a short time ago, that he has been arrested. What they are not telling us is where at. We were told originally that he had purchased a bus ticket under a different name to Savannah, Georgia. He was picked up by Savannah police at one point, questioned, but then because of the lack of jurisdiction there, they could not hold him, and that's when got away. But as we just learned, he is in custody and now Citrus County authorities will be questioning him from here.

SANCHEZ: Do we know, Sara, why authorities were looking for him to begin with? What's his relationship to the family or this case, if any? DORSEY: He has no relationship to the family. But what he is a convicted sex offender. He was living in a home very near to the one that Jessica Lunsford disappeared from and he wasn't supposed to be there. Sex offenders are suppose to register. And this man was registered, but at a different address. When investigators went to the home to talk to his family, to ask if indeed he had been staying there, they lied to investigators. And then things started to snowball from there.

The Citrus County Sheriff's Office got interested in this gentleman because there were so many things that weren't adding up. And that's why they decided to name him a person of interest. And they said they wanted to get more information from him.

SANCHEZ: So safe to say at this point there is no information that he'd ever come in contact either with the family or with little Jessica?

DORSEY: Well, basically we know that -- the sheriff's office is saying that there's no physical evidence, or at least they're not releasing that if there is. Jessica Lunsford's family says they've never seen the guy. After the picture went out on the news last night, they got a look at it, said they've never seen and don't know who he is. But the sheriff says they believe he could have some information that may be useful in this case.

SANCHEZ: Sara, we're getting information -- I don't know if you can possibly confirm. I heard at the beginning, you were saying in your report, that you weren't sure where authorities had picked him up. But sources here are telling us that he was picked up in Georgia, perhaps in the area of Savannah, Georgia. Is there anything you can add to that?

DORSEY: Yes, that was the place originally that we thought he was supposed to be at. Again, there was a bus ticket purchased by his niece and it was purchased under a different name. He left this area, Citrus County, Florida, saying that law enforcement might be looking for him. Of course, law enforcement got word of all this, that he was leaving, that he was telling people this, and that's when they decided they needed to go after this guy. So no surprise that he was found in Savannah. Last night, whenever his name and picture was released, the sheriff said they believed he was probably still in that area.

SANCHEZ: That's interesting. You know, the information that we're getting, just to clear it up for the sake of those of us who are now joining us, is that there has been someone who has been taken into custody, not necessarily arrested at this point. And that it is indeed a person of interest who has been taken into custody in the Savannah area. We can't officially put those two together and say it is indeed John Evander Couey. Although, Sara, from the information you're telling us, it would not be a dangerous assumption at this point, correct?

DORSEY: Right, and the Citrus County Sheriff's Office here, in Citrus Country, where we are at, confirmed to us that he has been arrested. The thing they wouldn't tell us that CNN sources are saying is that it was Savannah. But we have gotten confirmation that it is the man in custody, according to Citrus Country sheriff's officials here.

SANCHEZ: Sara, what does this tell us about this case when you consider that the very beginning, so many people were looking obviously first at the family, looking at the father and the grandfather and the grandmother who were staying with the child. Does that pretty much mean that those three are in the clear, if the police are turning their focus in another direction, in a very directed focus, I should say, with this Couey gentleman?

DORSEY: Well, it actually doesn't mean that at all. The sheriff said, you know, today that he is not ruling anyone out at this point, including the family. Everyone is still in. He's still looking at everyone. This person of interest is merely someone, at this point, at least, someone that they want to talk to. His name has come up several times in the course of this investigation.

As we said, it looked like some people were covering for him as he was moving along, not telling authorities everything they had been asking. That's really when the sheriff here got interested in finding this man to understand what the true story is and just to see, does he know anything? The sheriffs did a press conference, telling us, you know, we may get this man, talk to him and be able to clear him. But he is a person of interest. Now keep in mind that means the family is still not out. The sheriff says he's still looking at everyone that could possibly be involved, including this person of interest.

KAGAN: Sara, I'm going to jump in here. We talk about people covering up for this man. Are police giving any more clues about that? Who would possibly, in the search for a little girl, not want to give all information possible?

DORSEY: Basically, when it comes to this person of interest, we are hearing it was a niece of this man that bought a bus trip for him under an assumed name. And also I believe an aunt of his that he was staying with at that home who, whenever investigators came to the door knocking saying, hey, has he been here, we heard he's been here. That person initially lied to investigators saying that he hadn't been here. It was found out later, though, that that indeed was a lie and John Couey had been staying in that home just really across the street from where Jessica Lunsford disappeared.

KAGAN: And, Sara, in this case, are police operating under the assumption that they believe Sara is alive -- I'm sorry, that Jessica is alive?

DORSEY: They say they remain hopeful, that their whole goal in this entire investigation is to bring her home alive. So if they're having thoughts that possibly that is not the case, they are not sharing it with the media at this time.

KAGAN: The other thing that came up the other day that I think caught a lot of people's interest were the different lie detector tests that have been given to the family members. The grandfather cleared, the father cleared. There were a couple red flags, though, they said, on the grandmother's lie detector. Tell us more about that.

DORSEY: Yes, that's right. There was two red flags that came up according to the sheriff. Now they won't elaborate on what the questioning, the line of questioning, was whenever those red flags came up, just saying that there were a few things that piqued their interest. Now once that happened, the FBI kind of takes the grandma and they interviewed her quite a bit more.

And the sheriff came back saying you know, stress is an issue when it comes to these tests. And it is a possibility that those red flags were raised because the grandmother is stressed. However, again, he says red flags were raised. And that means no one in the family is ruled out at this point.

SANCHEZ: Sara, police are telling us that Couey has a lengthy criminal record. What do we know of his past?

DORSEY: Well, we know that he has a record that spans...

KAGAN: All right. It would appear that we've lost our Sara Dorsey on the phone, bringing us up-to-date. The update here, this is the search for the missing 9-year-old girl Jessica Lunsford out of Homosassa Springs, Florida. She's been missing since February 23rd and police have been looking for this man, this person of interest, a convicted sex offender, John Evander Couey.

SANCHEZ: We also have Rhonda Evan, Daryn, who's standing by right now. She's with Citrus County law enforcement. I don't know what particular agency you're with, Rhonda, but if you'd be good enough to share that information, there are a couple of questions we'd like to ask you. How are you this morning?

RHONDA HEMMINGER EVAN, CITRUS CO. SHERIFF'S DEPT: Sure, thank you. This is Rhonda Hemminger Evan. I am with the Citrus County Sheriff's Office.

SANCHEZ: What information can you share with us at this point?

EVAN: I can tell you that John Couey has just been taken into custody within the last hour. He was taken into custody in Richmond County in Georgia and that is in the town of Augusta.

SANCHEZ: For what reason was he taken into custody?

EVAN: He was picked up on a warrant charge.

SANCHEZ: Related to the Lunsford case?

EVAN: No, it is not related to the Lunsford case, but he will be held so that our detectives, who are en route, can question him because he is a person of interest. He has not been named a suspect in this case.

SANCHEZ: Would you explain to our viewers why he's a person of interest in the Lunsford case? EVAN: As we were investigating the disappearance of Jessica Lunsford, we obviously were looking in different arenas and people who may have known Jessica or come in contact with her. One of the other avenues that we pursue are registered sex offenders in the area due to the suspicious nature of the case and how she went missing. He was someone who was registered in Citrus County as a sexual offender, but was not living at the address that he had listed. He was actually living in much closer proximity to Jessica Lunsford.

That was the very first thing that caught our attention. Beyond that, there were several other things that kept pointing us in his direction. Again, nothing that ties him directly to the case. But enough that investigators would like to speak with him, and either rule him out, if he has nothing to do with Jessica's disappearance.

SANCHEZ: Has he ever come in contact, as far as you know, with the Lunsford family or Jessica in particular?

EVAN: No. To our knowledge, the family has said that they do not know John Couey. And, of course, we wish we could find Jessica. That would be a question, obviously, we would have for her. And it is obviously a question we will have for Mr. Couey, if he knows Jessica Lunsford or ever came in contact with her.

SANCHEZ: We thank you so much, Rhonda Evan, for joining us with that information and bringing us up-to-date. So the bottom line on this, as we hear you say it, is that, in fact, he has been taken into custody, but for an unrelated case, correct?

EVAN: He's in jail for a warrant violation of probation charge, but he is being held and again, we will question him in reference to this case.

SANCHEZ: Thank you so much for clearing that up for us. We appreciate your time.

KAGAN: Well, even with this development, unfortunately for the family the big question remains unanswered and that is where is Jessica Lunsford and what happened to her? Our Sara Dorsey live now from Homosassa Springs, Florida -- Sara.

DORSEY: Well, of course, it's been three week since Jessica disappeared and up until this point, there have been no significant leads. Of course, the sheriff came out last night, giving us that name of the person of interest, John Couey. As you just heard from the sheriff's spokeswoman, this man was picked up. He's in custody in Augusta, Georgia, now. That is not for this particular case. He was picked up on a warrant for violating his probation, but the sheriff's office does plan on going down there and questioning him.

The red flags that really popped up that made this man a person of interest is really the fact that he was staying in a home that he wasn't supposed to, that he wasn't registered to stay in, very near the one that Jessica disappeared from. He's a registered sex offender. He has a long criminal history. And also some family members had lie to investigators when they came knocking for information, and that's really what made this man a person of interest and what made authorities interested in talking to him.

KAGAN: And, Sara, let me just jump in here for a second, Because these are new pictures we're getting into CNN. This is from our affiliate WAGT in Augusta, Georgia. This is John Couey being taken into custody, and these pictures taken earlier this morning.

As you're saying they're on charges unrelated, but the reason this is a big deal is because they want to be able to talk to him. Had he ever met with Jessica Lunsford and does he know what happened to her?

Sara?

DORSEY: That's right. We do not believe he met Jessica Lunsford, according at least to the family. They say they've never seen this man. When his picture was released last night, they all watched it, and said no, that's no one that we really know. But the only one who will be able to answer those questions is John Couey himself and Jessica Lunsford, and of course, as you know, Daryn, she's still missing.

MARCIANO: I wonder if they've searched his home, and if there's any indication that they may found anything that would lead them to naming him a person of interest.

DORSEY: Well, I'll tell you, the sheriff was very, very hesitant about answering that question last night in a press conference. But he did say that they home that he was staying in, they were able to get in there, and they took a few items away for testing. He would not go any further than that, and actually warned us, you know, no more questioning on that line. So we don't really understand what it was that they could have gotten. But we do know that it was nothing of Jessica's.

So we know that Jessica disappeared with a toy. That was not something that they found in that house. They just took a few items. They said they're going to test those things, and then hopefully after they interview this man, we'll know if he will remain a person of interesting.

SANCHEZ: What was the distance between Mr. Couey's home and the Lunsford home?

DORSEY: Not far. I wouldn't say it's exactly across the street, but it is kind of across the street and catty (ph) corner. You can see the Lunsford house from the home he was staying in. So really just yards away, not too far at all.

KAGAN: And of course one of the problems was that the place that John Couey was staying was not the home he was supposed to be staying in. As a registered sex offender, he was supposed to be staying someplace else, which would have been far away from any children.

DORSEY: That's right, Daryn. You know, in the laws of the state, you have to stay a certain amount away from schools and different places. There are restrictions that are put on sex offenders once they're out, and it's not a big deal. As long as you're in the area you're supposed to be in and you register, you're OK.

But apparently, whenever police started looking into all the sex offenders in the area, this guy came up as not being where he was supposed to be, and then things started to snowball from there as they started to question out where he was, and then they found where he might be staying, and they saw that people were covering up for him. All those things have led to him being a person of interest, because police just need to understand what the circumstances are. Does he know anything? Could he be involved? All of those are questions that are still unanswered.

KAGAN: Here another question for you, the timing. We're three weeks into this. Why has it taken this long for police to name him as a person of interest. It would seems one of the first things they would do is check the registered sex offenders in the area and check up on them.

DORSEY: Well, and that is one of the first things that they did do, but they start in close proximity to the home. And this particular man, who was a registered sex offender, wasn't in that particular group. So when they threw the net out, he didn't come back right away.

As they expanded the search to the entire county, that's when his name came up, that's when investigators started to dig, and that's when this all of this started to snowball. That's why it's taken so long.

SANCHEZ: One wonders how long he's been in that area. And I ask that question in reference, Sara, to a report that we received here at CNN that says that -- and I'll quote this for you, "He's prone to violence when under the influence of alcohol or drugs." Why would they be saying that unless somebody in the community knows that, or he's come in contact with people there?

DORSEY: You know, I don't know exactly why they would be saying that. I do know if you look at this guy's rap sheet, it's long. And I believe that I do remember seeing an alcohol offense of some sort on there. I don't know who said that, and I don't know exactly where that information is coming from. But he is known to this area. I mean, I believe he's been around here for a while, and he's been in Florida for quite some time. The 1991 sex offense that he actually admitted to was out of the Florida area as well. So that's, you know, well over 10 years ago.

SANCHEZ: We should bring up for the sake of those who may be joining us now, we've been on this coverage now for the better part of 20 minutes or so, that indeed John Evander Couey has been picked up near Augusta, Georgia. However, he's been picked up on a warrant unrelated to the case of the little girl who'd been for some time in Homosassa Springs. However, police say they will be questioning him regarding the disappearance of this little girl.

Jessica Lunsford has been missing since February 23rd. And our Sara Dorsey is in Florida, helping us with our coverage there. Sara, bring our viewers up to date about once again about that this man is a registered sex offender living close by, but not registered to be living as close as he was to the Lunsford home.

DORSEY: That's right, Daryn, John Couey was a man that was just looked at because all sex offenders were looked at whenever Jessica Lunsford went missing. Now he wasn't a part of the original group, which people that were registered close to her home. But when those folks checked out and didn't really put up any red flags, investigators moved to a wider area, more of the registered sex offenders in the entire county. That's when they came across this man's name, and found out that he wasn't in the home he was registered to be in.

At that point, they went looking for him. They got some word that he was possibly staying with a family member, really across the street from where Jessica Lunsford disappeared from.

Now when they went knocking on the door asking questions, the family lie to officers at first saying no, he never stayed here, then the course of this investigation, the investigators found out that that indeed was a lie. And that, paired with other things, made the sheriff decide that he wanted to put this man's name and picture out and call him a person of interest so they could find him and question him and get more information to see if he knows anything about where Jessica Lunsford might be.

KAGAN: Sara Dorsey, live from Florida, thank you for that. We're going to cut you loose, let you get some more information for us and bring it to us at the top of our next hour. We'll bring you the latest on the search for the missing little girl, Jessica Lunsford, and this arrest that could be related to the case.

Also baseball on Capitol Hill.

SANCHEZ: The very latest on steroids. A lot of big names are stepping up to the plate on Capitol Hill. They're going to be talking about what they know or don't know about the steroid scandal in baseball. That and a whole lot more.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

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