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CNN Live Today
President Bush Hosts Leaders of Five African Countries; Africa Debt Relief
Aired June 13, 2005 - 10:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: And once again, we're standing by waiting for this event to happen at the White House with President Bush and the leaders of five African nations. As we do that, the second hour of CNN LIVE TODAY begins right now.
Let's take a look at what's happening "Now in the News."
Democracy and debt relief among the highlights of a meeting between President Bush and the leaders of the five African nations visiting today. Economic development and the fight against AIDS are also part of the agenda. A live report from the White House is just ahead.
An Iraqi tribunal releases new pictures from an interrogation of Saddam Hussein. The former Iraqi leader was questioned about dozens of killings in a Shiite village in 1982 where he survived an assassination attempt. There is speculation the crimes could be used as a test case in Saddam Hussein's trial.
In California, a shooting this morning critically injured one person and shut down a section of the Long Beach Freeway. Police say a dispute started at a nightclub and continued between cars on the highway. Southbound lanes on the freeway in Lynwood were closed while investigators looked for evidence.
Former members of the September 11th Commission -- live pictures there for you -- discussing challenges facing the nation's intelligence chief. It's part of a series of hearings to assess whether the 9/11 Commission's recommendations are being put in place. Today, the focus is on the newly created position of director of national intelligence.
The mother of an Alabama teenager missing in Aruba thinks two security guards detained in the investigation are innocent. But Natalee Holloway's mother has suspicions about the other three suspects. Bet Holloway Twitty tells The Associated Press that, "Those boys know what happened to her." Lawyers for all five suspects say their clients are innocent.
Good morning to you on this Monday morning. It is 8:00 a.m. in Santa Maria, California; 11:00 a.m. in Washington, D.C.; and 4:00 p.m. in Lagos, Nigeria.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Daryn Kagan.
Trade, economic aid and democracy just some of the highlights of President Bush's meeting with five African leaders today. White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux joins me with more on the administration's focus.
Suzanne, good morning.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.
We expect the president to make remarks within just moments. He's been meeting with five African leaders from Botswana, Ghana, Mozambique, Namibia and Niger. This is all a part of the administration's effort, really, to highlight some of the need in that continent, but also to highlight the partnership between the Bush administration, as well as some of those countries.
Now, what President Bush is going to do is he is essentially going to praise these leaders, put them out as a model. All of these leaders held democratic elections within the last year. All of them, as well, of course, benefit from those elections and trade.
The United States is in a trade partnership with these countries. Essentially, some of their exports are duty free. They come into this country, as well as others.
The president will argue that this is not only politically beneficial, but economically beneficial for these countries to have those free and fair elections. We also expect that the president is going to make a very familiar argument, a familiar case.
He is going to link the well-being of Africa of these particular nations to democracy and also to the security of the United States. He is going to say, if we can go ahead and help feed or help create work or jobs for people in countries, if they're not in a desperate situation, that they won't fall prey to terrorist recruits. That is part of the case that he is making.
Now, Daryn, as you know, of course, there has been a lot of talk about Africa. It was just last week that the president meet with British Prime Minister Tony Blair at the White House. And essentially, Blair has been pushing for the world's wealthiest nations to double the amount of aid to Africa in the next 10 years.
President Bush has not signed off on that. Rather, last week he announced a initiative, a modest amount of $674 million for famine relief.
The big news, however, here, Daryn, of course, is what happened in the last 48 hours. And that is, the G8 ministers out of London announcing that they were going to forgive the debt in the tune of some $40 billion for some of the world's poorest countries. Many of those countries, of course, in Africa -- Daryn.
KAGAN: All right. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House. Thank you.
One of the rare times I remember a White House event in the Bush administration starting late. So we'll stand by and we'll wait -- we're not going to wait, but when it does happen, when it begins, we'll go back live to the White House.
Meanwhile, many African countries have been caught in this cycle of borrowing and debt. It's often complicated by corruption. Robyn Curnow has more now on the roots of the crisis and these latest efforts to solve it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the past, some leaders, like Zaire's Mobutu Sese Seko, have borrowed heavily, spent badly, and bankrupted their countries. Financial experts like Barbara James say Africa is still counting the cost.
BARBARA JAMES, AFRICA ADVENTURE CAPITAL ASSOCIATION: That money that was originally borrowed was borrowed by dictators, they who have long gone. But the current regimes are now being straddled with the repayments of these debts.
CURNOW: Debts that have grown exponentially over the years.
JAMES: If you factor in interest rate changes, factor in currency rate changes, the current value of the debt bears no resemblance to what was borrowed. So we are in a vicious cycle of high debt, inability to pay, and governments being strangled.
CURNOW (on camera): Every country in the world has debt. So it's not debt that's the problem, just the inability to pay, that is. And most African countries just cannot keep up.
Take Ghana, for example, a country that is respected for its good governance. Eleven percent of government spending goes into repaying debts while only nine percent is spent on health.
(voice-over): Government officials say debt is part of the reason many African countries are poor.
HILARY BENN, U.K. SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT: The argument has always been with debt cancellation, how do you pay for it? Because if you pay for it out of the existing aid money, well, you've taken money from one pocket and put it in another.
CURNOW: The details of how to finance the debt cancellation are being thrashed out by G8 finance ministers in London this weekend. A task made easier, say the experts, after U.S. President George W. Bush conceded this week that debt relief should not come out of aid budgets.
JAMES: This money is going to be repaid out of new resources so that there is not going to be a black hole at the World Bank because the U.S. government, U.K. government, will lead other G8 governments to put back the money, to effectively pay off the black hole that would have been there. And that is the real breakthrough.
CURNOW: So to free up Africa's debt, the rich countries are considering digging deeper into their own pockets.
BENN: This is not only morally something that we ought to do, it's in the world self-interest. Because if we don't deal with poverty, injustice and inequality around the globe, then, frankly, I don't think we're going to have a safe and secure world in which to live.
CURNOW: Whatever the motivation, many experts agree that Africa's people could be offered some hope of change if that debt is wiped out.
Robyn Curnow, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: The agreement to cancel billions of dollars in debt is in part of the effort to lift Africa out of poverty. For more now on the problems and the promise facing African nations, let's go to Africa and bring in our African correspondent, Jeff Koinange.
Jeff, hello.
JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello there, Daryn.
I can tell you, lots of Africans waking up on this day with no debt at all in their countries. It's great news, for the most part, because it means most of the moneys that has been going to servicing debt, have been going to paying interest rates, well, that hopefully will now be redirected to more important things, HIV-AIDS prevention, building schools, clinics, hospitals, roads and buildings (AUDIO GAP).
This debt relief will be tied to good governance, and leaders can realize that they are accountable to their people and that all this money has to be directed in the right direction so that poverty can be alleviated on the continent by the end of the decade, or at least in the next decade -- Daryn.
KAGAN: And Jeff, you're reporting live to us from Lagos, Nigeria. Give us, in a few seconds, the status of that country.
KOINANGE: Well, they are, Daryn, not too good right now, because Nigeria is one of the countries that was excluded from the first round of debt relief. This means -- it doesn't mean such bad news, because the Nigerians are confident because this is one of the most powerful economies on the continent. It's just that it was mismanaged for most of the last four decades by successive military governments.
In the last five, six years, alone, the government in place has been caught (ph) in corruption, arresting senior officials. They feel that in the coming days, as the Paris court meets today and tomorrow, that good news will come out of it.
Nigeria's outstanding debt right now, Daryn, about $35 billion. If they can get most of that wiped out, this country's economy can literally be turned around.
KAGAN: Jeff Koinange, reporting live for us via videophone from Lagos, Nigeria. Jeff, thank you.
And once again, we are standing by for this event to take place in the White House. The leaders of five African countries, behind that door they have been meeting with President Bush in the Oval Office. We see some movement. Ah, but not the president.
It is the leaders of Botswana, Ghana, Mozambique, Namibia and Niger. They are all there.
We've been talking a lot about debt relief. And in the previous stories, hearing about that.
What President Bush is focusing on today, and what he is most excited about, is about the spread of democracy and that opportunity. And it's no accident the countries that were picked to be there today and to appear with President Bush. He is trying to focus and highlight countries that are making progress in that area.
All right. While we're waiting for the president, also I had a chance in recent weeks to talk with Bono. The Irish rock star has been a strong voice calling for debt relief and increased aid to Africa. When I talked to him a couple of weeks ago about problems facing African countries, he had this to say about Africa and the AIDS crisis...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONO, U2: I don't think what's happening in Africa with AIDS, in particular, and just the poverty and despair there, is a cause. I think it's an emergency.
And there are other things I feel passionately about and that you feel passionately about. Lots of people have causes, and I have. But 6,500 people dying every day, not a cause. An emergency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: They U2 lead singer is urging world leaders to double aid to Africa over the next 10 years.
And so President Bush was part of this group of eight. The United States being part of this group of eight making this announcement about the relief of debt to these African countries, of $40 billion of debt owed by 18 of the world's poorest nations as part of this effort led by Tony Blair, the prime minister of Great Britain.
A lot of discussion about this here in the U.S.. The United States the largest single contributor to AIDS to Africa. And yet, in terms of GMP...
Here's President Bush with the five leaders from the African nations.
Let's go ahead and listen in.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you all. Please be seated.
Thank you all for coming. Welcome to the White House.
I want to thank the five presidents who are with us today, President Mogae of Botswana, President Kufuor of Ghana, President Guebuza of Mozambique, President Pohamba of Namibia and President Tandja of Niger.
We just had a great discussion. I consider these men friends, I consider them to be strong patriots of their respective countries and I consider them to be democrats.
I want to thank Secretary of State Condi Rice for joining us today. And she was in the discussions we had earlier.
I'm honored that the members of the diplomatic corps have joined us. I thank the ambassadors for being here.
I appreciate members of the Congress being here. Senator Bill Frist, the majority leader, is with us. Congressman Bill Thomas, Congressman Charlie Rangel of the Ways and Means Committee. Two fine members.
And I appreciate you being here as a symbol of unity and support for...
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
... for moving the trade agenda forward.
I appreciate Congressman Jim Kolbe from Arizona being here as well.
Thank you all for coming. Really are honored you're here. And I know the presidents are as well.
All the presidents gathered here represent countries that have held democratic elections in the last year. What a strong statement that these leaders have made about democracy and the importance of democracy on the continent of Africa.
BUSH: All of us share a fundamental commitment to advancing democracy and opportunity on the continent of Africa. And all of us believe that one of the most effective ways to advance democracy and deliver hope to the people of Africa is through mutually beneficial trade.
That was certainly the idea behind the African Growth and Opportunity Act, a bipartisan act, an act of the United States Congress that recognized this fact.
You see, AGOA is promoting democratic reform in Africa by providing incentives for these nations to extend freedom and opportunity to all of their citizens. Under this law, African nations can obtain greater access to our markets by showing their commitment to economic and political reform, by respecting human rights, tearing down trade barriers and strengthening property rights and the rule of law; which is precisely what the leaders of these five nations are doing.
Because AGOA is producing results, I have twice signed into law provisions that build on its success and extend its benefits long into the future. My predecessor worked with the Congress to get the law passed. I have been honored to work with the Congress to extend the good law.
And the reason why I feel confident in going to the Congress is because it's worked. It's a good piece of legislation that has made a difference in people's lives.
In 2004, we saw dramatic evidence of the results that this new engagement between the United States and Africa is helping produce. Last year, exports to the United States from AGOA nations were up 88 percent over the year before. And non-oil exports were up by 22 percent.
In other words, we pledged to open our markets; we have opened our markets and people are now making goods that the United States consumers want to buy. And that's helpful.
BUSH: That's how you spread wealth. That's how you encourage hope and opportunity.
Over the same period, interestingly enough, U.S. exports to sub- Saharan Africa were up 25 percent.
In other words, this is a two-way street. Not only have folks in Africa benefited by selling products in the United States, American businesses, small and large, have benefited through the opening of the African market as well.
Across sub-Saharan Africa, economic growth increased to an eight- year high. Real per capita income increased by 2.7 percent, and this growth is expected to continue in 2005.
By creating jobs and lowering prices and expanding opportunity opportunity, AGOA is today delivering benefits for Americans and Africans alike. And that's important for our fellow citizens to understand.
Trade is beneficial for the working people here in America, just like it's beneficial for people on the continent of Africa.
We'll continue to work for policies that build on these impressive results.
In December, I announced that 37 African countries are now eligible for AGOA benefits. And next month in Senegal, senior ministers from my administration will meet with government ministers from these 37 AGOA nations to build on this progress. These representatives will be joined by hundreds of American and African businesses and private organizations who will discuss ways to promote development and strengthen civil society.
As we expand our trade, the United States is committing to expanding our efforts to relieve hunger, reduce debt, fight disease on the African continent.
One thing we discussed was the Millennium Challenge Account. And I assured the leaders we will work harder and faster to certify countries from MCA, so that MCA countries and the people in the MCA countries can see the benefit of this really important piece of legislation and funding.
I also announced last week that the United States will provide about $674 million of additional resources to help alleviate humanitarian emergencies in African nations, especially the growing famine in parts of Africa.
On Saturday, we also announced an agreement worked out through the Group of 8 industrialized nations that will cancel $40 billion in debt owed by 18 of the world's poorest nations, including 14 in Africa.
The countries eligible for this relief are those that have put themselves on the path to reform.
BUSH: We believe by removing a crippling debt burden, we'll help millions of Africans improve their lives and grow their economies.
Finally, one of the greatest causes of suffering in Africa is the spread of HIV/AIDS.
I appreciate Randy Tobias being here.
I made fighting this disease a top priority of my administration by launching an emergency plan for AIDS relief.
Working with our African partners, we have now delivered life- saving treatment to more than 200,000 people in sub-Sahara Africa. And we're on our way to meeting an important five-year goal of providing treatment for nearly 2 million African adults and children.
The United States of America is firmly committed to working with governments to help fight the pandemic of AIDS. This crisis is one that can be arrested.
And I want you all to know that when America makes a commitment, we mean what we say. And this government means what it says and this Congress means what it says when we work together to fight HIV/AIDS.
These are just some of the initiatives that we're pursuing to help Africa's leaders bring democracy and prosperity and hope to their people.
The reason I asked these presidents to join us today is because I applaud their courage. I appreciate their wisdom. I appreciate them being such good friends that they're able to feel comfortable in coming to the White House to say, "Mr. President, this is going well and this isn't. How about working together to make this work better?" That's how we solve problems. We solve problems by having a frank and open dialogue.
We believe Africa is a continent full of promise and talent and opportunity. The United States will do our part to help the people of Africa realize the brighter future they deserve.
Again, I'm honored you all are here. Thank you all for coming.
May God bless you all.
(APPLAUSE)
KAGAN: President Bush welcoming the leaders of five African nations, five emerging democracies. So President Bush celebrating and spotlighting the democracy as it grows in Africa, also the $40 billion in debt that was excused. That was announced over the weekend. The United States and others in the group of eight, major industrialized nations, making that announcement on Saturday to eliminate that debt and, hopefully, help some African nations get ahead.
Extreme tactics or was it fair treatment? The debate over Guantanamo Bay prison adds some new voices. Details from a "TIME" magazine account are next.
Also, the Michael Jackson jury will be back in court shortly to resume their deliberations. Will there be a verdict today?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: We have fresh video of former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein. Images of the deposed leader were released by the Iraqi special tribunal today. The video was taken as a judge questioned Hussein about the 1982 killings of dozens of men from a Shiite village in Iraq. That same year, the dictator survived an assassination attempt in the village.
I have with me on the phone right now Saddam Hussein's lead lawyer. Giovanni Di Stefano joining me on the phone from Rome.
Mr. Di Stefano, thank you for calling in.
GIOVANNI DI STEFANO, SADDAM HUSSEIN'S ATTORNEY: Thank you, ma'am. Thank you.
KAGAN: What can you tell us about the release of this tape? Were you there for the questioning?
DI STEFANO: Well, first of all, this is not recent. This occurred in July of last year.
Secondly, it was taped in the central criminal court in Baghdad in the offices of the investigative judges. Thirdly, his excellency, Saddam Hussein, did ask for legal counsel to be present. It was denied him. But perhaps there is little complaint on that as far as that is concerned simply because the conversation was an informal conversation.
Now, what those listening in America, and perhaps in the United Kingdom as well, won't understand is that there are certain country that is have investigative judges. In America and England things are done differently.
KAGAN: Absolutely.
DI STEFANO: In my own country, in Italy, it is a judge that is appointed that will often -- he will question or she will question people who are arrested, sometimes just general conversation.
Now, one of the reasons that they videoed everything there and they haven't released the sound is that everything within that type of conversation, whether it's culpatory or exculpatory, is inadmissible in any court of law there. So there's nothing for any of us to all get worked up about.
We were aware, of course, that there are a number of filmings of Saddam Hussein being asked questions on a number of different topics by investigative judges. But the important thing to remember, that, still, after 20 months, there are no charges.
KAGAN: OK. So a couple things. You gave us a lot of information there. But, first of all, you're saying this tape that we're looking at, even though we're just seeing it, is actually almost a year old?
DI STEFANO: Oh, yes. That was in July of last year, and it was taken at the central criminal court of Baghdad's headquarters.
That's another -- another matter of contention, that is, as far as the jurisdiction is concerned. But if -- if, and in the unlikely event that there is ever to be a trial, it will be a legal issue which will have to resolve whether that court actually has a jurisdiction since it was founded by the CPA and they have never been able to have transitory powers to the special tribunal. Now, it's a little bit of a legal argument which may...
KAGAN: Right. Well, let me just ask you about this with this trial, because there's been some talk, some dispute about when this trial would get started. Sometimes we're hearing as early as six weeks from now.
DI STEFANO: Impossible.
KAGAN: Not possible. How is that?
DI STEFANO: Well, please explain to me, if you arrest someone, if you charge someone in the United States today, is it possible to have a trial in six weeks? Almost on even the most minor of charges... KAGAN: Right. But he's been in custody almost a year now.
DI STEFANO: Well, I know that. But we're talking about a defense, ma'am. We're talking about whether defense -- I mean, we were told last year in -- I think it was September or October, that there are 35 truckloads full of documents.
Can someone explain to us, even with a thousand attorneys, how we're going to be able to review every document? What document is going to be supplied to us? And can someone explain, please, why after 20 months this man has not been charged, when there apparently was sufficient evidence to attack his country?
They must have had the evidence. Someone must have had it. Why was it not forthcoming?
KAGAN: So what kind of timetable are you working on?
DI STEFANO: Well, even if you have one truck full of documents -- I also (INAUDIBLE) President Slobodan Milosevic, and there's four million documents there. That trial took nearly two years to come. And now we're in the third year ongoing. This is not something that can be dealt with in six weeks unless you have summary justice.
Now, if you have...
KAGAN: Let me ask you quickly -- I'm sorry, Mr. Di Stefano. Our time is short. When is the last time you saw your client, Saddam Hussein?
DI STEFANO: Well, I saw him personally in March of 1998. But I will be attending President Saddam Hussein very shortly because of the existence of an American lawsuit that I was served last week. So I will be attending him and, hopefully, I think with CNN as well very shortly.
KAGAN: All right. Well, it will be fascinating to get to talk to you after you see him.
DI STEFANO: Thank you, ma'am.
KAGAN: That's Giovanni Di Stefano calling in from Rome, lead attorney for Saddam Hussein.
And with that, we'll take a break. We're back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired June 13, 2005 - 10:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: And once again, we're standing by waiting for this event to happen at the White House with President Bush and the leaders of five African nations. As we do that, the second hour of CNN LIVE TODAY begins right now.
Let's take a look at what's happening "Now in the News."
Democracy and debt relief among the highlights of a meeting between President Bush and the leaders of the five African nations visiting today. Economic development and the fight against AIDS are also part of the agenda. A live report from the White House is just ahead.
An Iraqi tribunal releases new pictures from an interrogation of Saddam Hussein. The former Iraqi leader was questioned about dozens of killings in a Shiite village in 1982 where he survived an assassination attempt. There is speculation the crimes could be used as a test case in Saddam Hussein's trial.
In California, a shooting this morning critically injured one person and shut down a section of the Long Beach Freeway. Police say a dispute started at a nightclub and continued between cars on the highway. Southbound lanes on the freeway in Lynwood were closed while investigators looked for evidence.
Former members of the September 11th Commission -- live pictures there for you -- discussing challenges facing the nation's intelligence chief. It's part of a series of hearings to assess whether the 9/11 Commission's recommendations are being put in place. Today, the focus is on the newly created position of director of national intelligence.
The mother of an Alabama teenager missing in Aruba thinks two security guards detained in the investigation are innocent. But Natalee Holloway's mother has suspicions about the other three suspects. Bet Holloway Twitty tells The Associated Press that, "Those boys know what happened to her." Lawyers for all five suspects say their clients are innocent.
Good morning to you on this Monday morning. It is 8:00 a.m. in Santa Maria, California; 11:00 a.m. in Washington, D.C.; and 4:00 p.m. in Lagos, Nigeria.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Daryn Kagan.
Trade, economic aid and democracy just some of the highlights of President Bush's meeting with five African leaders today. White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux joins me with more on the administration's focus.
Suzanne, good morning.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.
We expect the president to make remarks within just moments. He's been meeting with five African leaders from Botswana, Ghana, Mozambique, Namibia and Niger. This is all a part of the administration's effort, really, to highlight some of the need in that continent, but also to highlight the partnership between the Bush administration, as well as some of those countries.
Now, what President Bush is going to do is he is essentially going to praise these leaders, put them out as a model. All of these leaders held democratic elections within the last year. All of them, as well, of course, benefit from those elections and trade.
The United States is in a trade partnership with these countries. Essentially, some of their exports are duty free. They come into this country, as well as others.
The president will argue that this is not only politically beneficial, but economically beneficial for these countries to have those free and fair elections. We also expect that the president is going to make a very familiar argument, a familiar case.
He is going to link the well-being of Africa of these particular nations to democracy and also to the security of the United States. He is going to say, if we can go ahead and help feed or help create work or jobs for people in countries, if they're not in a desperate situation, that they won't fall prey to terrorist recruits. That is part of the case that he is making.
Now, Daryn, as you know, of course, there has been a lot of talk about Africa. It was just last week that the president meet with British Prime Minister Tony Blair at the White House. And essentially, Blair has been pushing for the world's wealthiest nations to double the amount of aid to Africa in the next 10 years.
President Bush has not signed off on that. Rather, last week he announced a initiative, a modest amount of $674 million for famine relief.
The big news, however, here, Daryn, of course, is what happened in the last 48 hours. And that is, the G8 ministers out of London announcing that they were going to forgive the debt in the tune of some $40 billion for some of the world's poorest countries. Many of those countries, of course, in Africa -- Daryn.
KAGAN: All right. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House. Thank you.
One of the rare times I remember a White House event in the Bush administration starting late. So we'll stand by and we'll wait -- we're not going to wait, but when it does happen, when it begins, we'll go back live to the White House.
Meanwhile, many African countries have been caught in this cycle of borrowing and debt. It's often complicated by corruption. Robyn Curnow has more now on the roots of the crisis and these latest efforts to solve it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the past, some leaders, like Zaire's Mobutu Sese Seko, have borrowed heavily, spent badly, and bankrupted their countries. Financial experts like Barbara James say Africa is still counting the cost.
BARBARA JAMES, AFRICA ADVENTURE CAPITAL ASSOCIATION: That money that was originally borrowed was borrowed by dictators, they who have long gone. But the current regimes are now being straddled with the repayments of these debts.
CURNOW: Debts that have grown exponentially over the years.
JAMES: If you factor in interest rate changes, factor in currency rate changes, the current value of the debt bears no resemblance to what was borrowed. So we are in a vicious cycle of high debt, inability to pay, and governments being strangled.
CURNOW (on camera): Every country in the world has debt. So it's not debt that's the problem, just the inability to pay, that is. And most African countries just cannot keep up.
Take Ghana, for example, a country that is respected for its good governance. Eleven percent of government spending goes into repaying debts while only nine percent is spent on health.
(voice-over): Government officials say debt is part of the reason many African countries are poor.
HILARY BENN, U.K. SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT: The argument has always been with debt cancellation, how do you pay for it? Because if you pay for it out of the existing aid money, well, you've taken money from one pocket and put it in another.
CURNOW: The details of how to finance the debt cancellation are being thrashed out by G8 finance ministers in London this weekend. A task made easier, say the experts, after U.S. President George W. Bush conceded this week that debt relief should not come out of aid budgets.
JAMES: This money is going to be repaid out of new resources so that there is not going to be a black hole at the World Bank because the U.S. government, U.K. government, will lead other G8 governments to put back the money, to effectively pay off the black hole that would have been there. And that is the real breakthrough.
CURNOW: So to free up Africa's debt, the rich countries are considering digging deeper into their own pockets.
BENN: This is not only morally something that we ought to do, it's in the world self-interest. Because if we don't deal with poverty, injustice and inequality around the globe, then, frankly, I don't think we're going to have a safe and secure world in which to live.
CURNOW: Whatever the motivation, many experts agree that Africa's people could be offered some hope of change if that debt is wiped out.
Robyn Curnow, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: The agreement to cancel billions of dollars in debt is in part of the effort to lift Africa out of poverty. For more now on the problems and the promise facing African nations, let's go to Africa and bring in our African correspondent, Jeff Koinange.
Jeff, hello.
JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello there, Daryn.
I can tell you, lots of Africans waking up on this day with no debt at all in their countries. It's great news, for the most part, because it means most of the moneys that has been going to servicing debt, have been going to paying interest rates, well, that hopefully will now be redirected to more important things, HIV-AIDS prevention, building schools, clinics, hospitals, roads and buildings (AUDIO GAP).
This debt relief will be tied to good governance, and leaders can realize that they are accountable to their people and that all this money has to be directed in the right direction so that poverty can be alleviated on the continent by the end of the decade, or at least in the next decade -- Daryn.
KAGAN: And Jeff, you're reporting live to us from Lagos, Nigeria. Give us, in a few seconds, the status of that country.
KOINANGE: Well, they are, Daryn, not too good right now, because Nigeria is one of the countries that was excluded from the first round of debt relief. This means -- it doesn't mean such bad news, because the Nigerians are confident because this is one of the most powerful economies on the continent. It's just that it was mismanaged for most of the last four decades by successive military governments.
In the last five, six years, alone, the government in place has been caught (ph) in corruption, arresting senior officials. They feel that in the coming days, as the Paris court meets today and tomorrow, that good news will come out of it.
Nigeria's outstanding debt right now, Daryn, about $35 billion. If they can get most of that wiped out, this country's economy can literally be turned around.
KAGAN: Jeff Koinange, reporting live for us via videophone from Lagos, Nigeria. Jeff, thank you.
And once again, we are standing by for this event to take place in the White House. The leaders of five African countries, behind that door they have been meeting with President Bush in the Oval Office. We see some movement. Ah, but not the president.
It is the leaders of Botswana, Ghana, Mozambique, Namibia and Niger. They are all there.
We've been talking a lot about debt relief. And in the previous stories, hearing about that.
What President Bush is focusing on today, and what he is most excited about, is about the spread of democracy and that opportunity. And it's no accident the countries that were picked to be there today and to appear with President Bush. He is trying to focus and highlight countries that are making progress in that area.
All right. While we're waiting for the president, also I had a chance in recent weeks to talk with Bono. The Irish rock star has been a strong voice calling for debt relief and increased aid to Africa. When I talked to him a couple of weeks ago about problems facing African countries, he had this to say about Africa and the AIDS crisis...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONO, U2: I don't think what's happening in Africa with AIDS, in particular, and just the poverty and despair there, is a cause. I think it's an emergency.
And there are other things I feel passionately about and that you feel passionately about. Lots of people have causes, and I have. But 6,500 people dying every day, not a cause. An emergency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: They U2 lead singer is urging world leaders to double aid to Africa over the next 10 years.
And so President Bush was part of this group of eight. The United States being part of this group of eight making this announcement about the relief of debt to these African countries, of $40 billion of debt owed by 18 of the world's poorest nations as part of this effort led by Tony Blair, the prime minister of Great Britain.
A lot of discussion about this here in the U.S.. The United States the largest single contributor to AIDS to Africa. And yet, in terms of GMP...
Here's President Bush with the five leaders from the African nations.
Let's go ahead and listen in.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you all. Please be seated.
Thank you all for coming. Welcome to the White House.
I want to thank the five presidents who are with us today, President Mogae of Botswana, President Kufuor of Ghana, President Guebuza of Mozambique, President Pohamba of Namibia and President Tandja of Niger.
We just had a great discussion. I consider these men friends, I consider them to be strong patriots of their respective countries and I consider them to be democrats.
I want to thank Secretary of State Condi Rice for joining us today. And she was in the discussions we had earlier.
I'm honored that the members of the diplomatic corps have joined us. I thank the ambassadors for being here.
I appreciate members of the Congress being here. Senator Bill Frist, the majority leader, is with us. Congressman Bill Thomas, Congressman Charlie Rangel of the Ways and Means Committee. Two fine members.
And I appreciate you being here as a symbol of unity and support for...
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
... for moving the trade agenda forward.
I appreciate Congressman Jim Kolbe from Arizona being here as well.
Thank you all for coming. Really are honored you're here. And I know the presidents are as well.
All the presidents gathered here represent countries that have held democratic elections in the last year. What a strong statement that these leaders have made about democracy and the importance of democracy on the continent of Africa.
BUSH: All of us share a fundamental commitment to advancing democracy and opportunity on the continent of Africa. And all of us believe that one of the most effective ways to advance democracy and deliver hope to the people of Africa is through mutually beneficial trade.
That was certainly the idea behind the African Growth and Opportunity Act, a bipartisan act, an act of the United States Congress that recognized this fact.
You see, AGOA is promoting democratic reform in Africa by providing incentives for these nations to extend freedom and opportunity to all of their citizens. Under this law, African nations can obtain greater access to our markets by showing their commitment to economic and political reform, by respecting human rights, tearing down trade barriers and strengthening property rights and the rule of law; which is precisely what the leaders of these five nations are doing.
Because AGOA is producing results, I have twice signed into law provisions that build on its success and extend its benefits long into the future. My predecessor worked with the Congress to get the law passed. I have been honored to work with the Congress to extend the good law.
And the reason why I feel confident in going to the Congress is because it's worked. It's a good piece of legislation that has made a difference in people's lives.
In 2004, we saw dramatic evidence of the results that this new engagement between the United States and Africa is helping produce. Last year, exports to the United States from AGOA nations were up 88 percent over the year before. And non-oil exports were up by 22 percent.
In other words, we pledged to open our markets; we have opened our markets and people are now making goods that the United States consumers want to buy. And that's helpful.
BUSH: That's how you spread wealth. That's how you encourage hope and opportunity.
Over the same period, interestingly enough, U.S. exports to sub- Saharan Africa were up 25 percent.
In other words, this is a two-way street. Not only have folks in Africa benefited by selling products in the United States, American businesses, small and large, have benefited through the opening of the African market as well.
Across sub-Saharan Africa, economic growth increased to an eight- year high. Real per capita income increased by 2.7 percent, and this growth is expected to continue in 2005.
By creating jobs and lowering prices and expanding opportunity opportunity, AGOA is today delivering benefits for Americans and Africans alike. And that's important for our fellow citizens to understand.
Trade is beneficial for the working people here in America, just like it's beneficial for people on the continent of Africa.
We'll continue to work for policies that build on these impressive results.
In December, I announced that 37 African countries are now eligible for AGOA benefits. And next month in Senegal, senior ministers from my administration will meet with government ministers from these 37 AGOA nations to build on this progress. These representatives will be joined by hundreds of American and African businesses and private organizations who will discuss ways to promote development and strengthen civil society.
As we expand our trade, the United States is committing to expanding our efforts to relieve hunger, reduce debt, fight disease on the African continent.
One thing we discussed was the Millennium Challenge Account. And I assured the leaders we will work harder and faster to certify countries from MCA, so that MCA countries and the people in the MCA countries can see the benefit of this really important piece of legislation and funding.
I also announced last week that the United States will provide about $674 million of additional resources to help alleviate humanitarian emergencies in African nations, especially the growing famine in parts of Africa.
On Saturday, we also announced an agreement worked out through the Group of 8 industrialized nations that will cancel $40 billion in debt owed by 18 of the world's poorest nations, including 14 in Africa.
The countries eligible for this relief are those that have put themselves on the path to reform.
BUSH: We believe by removing a crippling debt burden, we'll help millions of Africans improve their lives and grow their economies.
Finally, one of the greatest causes of suffering in Africa is the spread of HIV/AIDS.
I appreciate Randy Tobias being here.
I made fighting this disease a top priority of my administration by launching an emergency plan for AIDS relief.
Working with our African partners, we have now delivered life- saving treatment to more than 200,000 people in sub-Sahara Africa. And we're on our way to meeting an important five-year goal of providing treatment for nearly 2 million African adults and children.
The United States of America is firmly committed to working with governments to help fight the pandemic of AIDS. This crisis is one that can be arrested.
And I want you all to know that when America makes a commitment, we mean what we say. And this government means what it says and this Congress means what it says when we work together to fight HIV/AIDS.
These are just some of the initiatives that we're pursuing to help Africa's leaders bring democracy and prosperity and hope to their people.
The reason I asked these presidents to join us today is because I applaud their courage. I appreciate their wisdom. I appreciate them being such good friends that they're able to feel comfortable in coming to the White House to say, "Mr. President, this is going well and this isn't. How about working together to make this work better?" That's how we solve problems. We solve problems by having a frank and open dialogue.
We believe Africa is a continent full of promise and talent and opportunity. The United States will do our part to help the people of Africa realize the brighter future they deserve.
Again, I'm honored you all are here. Thank you all for coming.
May God bless you all.
(APPLAUSE)
KAGAN: President Bush welcoming the leaders of five African nations, five emerging democracies. So President Bush celebrating and spotlighting the democracy as it grows in Africa, also the $40 billion in debt that was excused. That was announced over the weekend. The United States and others in the group of eight, major industrialized nations, making that announcement on Saturday to eliminate that debt and, hopefully, help some African nations get ahead.
Extreme tactics or was it fair treatment? The debate over Guantanamo Bay prison adds some new voices. Details from a "TIME" magazine account are next.
Also, the Michael Jackson jury will be back in court shortly to resume their deliberations. Will there be a verdict today?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: We have fresh video of former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein. Images of the deposed leader were released by the Iraqi special tribunal today. The video was taken as a judge questioned Hussein about the 1982 killings of dozens of men from a Shiite village in Iraq. That same year, the dictator survived an assassination attempt in the village.
I have with me on the phone right now Saddam Hussein's lead lawyer. Giovanni Di Stefano joining me on the phone from Rome.
Mr. Di Stefano, thank you for calling in.
GIOVANNI DI STEFANO, SADDAM HUSSEIN'S ATTORNEY: Thank you, ma'am. Thank you.
KAGAN: What can you tell us about the release of this tape? Were you there for the questioning?
DI STEFANO: Well, first of all, this is not recent. This occurred in July of last year.
Secondly, it was taped in the central criminal court in Baghdad in the offices of the investigative judges. Thirdly, his excellency, Saddam Hussein, did ask for legal counsel to be present. It was denied him. But perhaps there is little complaint on that as far as that is concerned simply because the conversation was an informal conversation.
Now, what those listening in America, and perhaps in the United Kingdom as well, won't understand is that there are certain country that is have investigative judges. In America and England things are done differently.
KAGAN: Absolutely.
DI STEFANO: In my own country, in Italy, it is a judge that is appointed that will often -- he will question or she will question people who are arrested, sometimes just general conversation.
Now, one of the reasons that they videoed everything there and they haven't released the sound is that everything within that type of conversation, whether it's culpatory or exculpatory, is inadmissible in any court of law there. So there's nothing for any of us to all get worked up about.
We were aware, of course, that there are a number of filmings of Saddam Hussein being asked questions on a number of different topics by investigative judges. But the important thing to remember, that, still, after 20 months, there are no charges.
KAGAN: OK. So a couple things. You gave us a lot of information there. But, first of all, you're saying this tape that we're looking at, even though we're just seeing it, is actually almost a year old?
DI STEFANO: Oh, yes. That was in July of last year, and it was taken at the central criminal court of Baghdad's headquarters.
That's another -- another matter of contention, that is, as far as the jurisdiction is concerned. But if -- if, and in the unlikely event that there is ever to be a trial, it will be a legal issue which will have to resolve whether that court actually has a jurisdiction since it was founded by the CPA and they have never been able to have transitory powers to the special tribunal. Now, it's a little bit of a legal argument which may...
KAGAN: Right. Well, let me just ask you about this with this trial, because there's been some talk, some dispute about when this trial would get started. Sometimes we're hearing as early as six weeks from now.
DI STEFANO: Impossible.
KAGAN: Not possible. How is that?
DI STEFANO: Well, please explain to me, if you arrest someone, if you charge someone in the United States today, is it possible to have a trial in six weeks? Almost on even the most minor of charges... KAGAN: Right. But he's been in custody almost a year now.
DI STEFANO: Well, I know that. But we're talking about a defense, ma'am. We're talking about whether defense -- I mean, we were told last year in -- I think it was September or October, that there are 35 truckloads full of documents.
Can someone explain to us, even with a thousand attorneys, how we're going to be able to review every document? What document is going to be supplied to us? And can someone explain, please, why after 20 months this man has not been charged, when there apparently was sufficient evidence to attack his country?
They must have had the evidence. Someone must have had it. Why was it not forthcoming?
KAGAN: So what kind of timetable are you working on?
DI STEFANO: Well, even if you have one truck full of documents -- I also (INAUDIBLE) President Slobodan Milosevic, and there's four million documents there. That trial took nearly two years to come. And now we're in the third year ongoing. This is not something that can be dealt with in six weeks unless you have summary justice.
Now, if you have...
KAGAN: Let me ask you quickly -- I'm sorry, Mr. Di Stefano. Our time is short. When is the last time you saw your client, Saddam Hussein?
DI STEFANO: Well, I saw him personally in March of 1998. But I will be attending President Saddam Hussein very shortly because of the existence of an American lawsuit that I was served last week. So I will be attending him and, hopefully, I think with CNN as well very shortly.
KAGAN: All right. Well, it will be fascinating to get to talk to you after you see him.
DI STEFANO: Thank you, ma'am.
KAGAN: That's Giovanni Di Stefano calling in from Rome, lead attorney for Saddam Hussein.
And with that, we'll take a break. We're back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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