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Supreme Court Rules Government Can Take Property for Economic Development

Aired June 23, 2005 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: As it turns out, we had the machines rolling, while we were focusing on Philadelphia, Mississippi. So we have that nine-minute chunk that we missed. We're going to go ahead, play that back, and listen and see what we missed in the exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. TED KENNEDY (R), MASSACHUSETTS: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I want to thank General Casey, and General Myers, General Abizaid, Secretary Rumsfeld for their service to their country.

During the course of their presentations, we hear the words dedication, the commitment, sacrifice and courage of our Armed Forces. And that is something that all of us admire, respect and commend for those men and women in the regular forces, the Reserve and the Guard. And quite frankly, it puts an additional burden, I think, on all of us to make sure that we're going to get it right over in Iraq. Because the kinds of sacrifice that all of you have talked about American servicemen and women, and in terms of the Iraqis as well, mean that we have a real responsibility to get it correct, and that comes to the policymakers, and moves out of those that are out there, going on patrols every day and every night and doing the job that they feel is important, and is important in terms of the United States. So it's the policy. It's the policymakers.

Which brings me, Mr. Secretary, to you. Secretary Rumsfeld, as you know, we are in serious trouble in Iraq, and this war has been consistently and grossly mismanaged. And we are now in a seemingly intractable quagmire. Our troops are dying. And there really is no end in sight. And the American people, I believe, deserve leadership worthy of the sacrifices that our fighting forces are made, and they deserve the real facts. And I regret say that I don't believe you have provided either.

You were wrong in September 2002 when you told the House Armed Services Committee that knowing what we know about Iraq's history, no conclusion is possible, except that they have and are escalating their WWD programs. And you were wrong when you told this committee that no terrorist state poses a greater threat or more immediate threat to the security of our people than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

When General Shinseki estimated that we'd need several hundred thousand soldiers, you scoffed and said the idea that it would take several hundred U.S. forces is far from the mark. And when the massive looting occurred after Baghdad fell because we didn't have enough troops for security, you callously said, stuff happens. You wrongly insisted after Saddam fell that there was no guerrilla war, even though our soldiers continued to be killed. In June 2003, you said, the reason I don't use the phrase guerrilla war is because there isn't one. You wrongly called the insurgents dead-enders, but they are killing Americans, almost three a day, and Iraqis with alarming frequency and intensity. You wrongly sent our service members into battle without the proper armor. When asked by a soldier about inadequate equipment, you said you go to war with the armor you have. They're not the armor you might want or wish to have at a later time.

You exaggerated our success, in training capable Iraqi security forces in February 2004. You told this committee, we have accelerated the training of Iraqi security forces, now more than 200,000. That's in February of this year. In fact, we have far fewer actually capable of fighting then, and far fewer that are capable even now.

So you basically have mismanaged the car and created an impossible situation for military recruiters and put our forces and national security in danger.

Our troops deserve better, Mr. Secretary. I think the American people deserve better. They deserve competency, and they deserve the facts.

In baseball, it's three strikes, you're out. What is it for the secretary of defense?

RUMSFELD: Well, that is quite a statement. First let me say that there isn't a person at this table who agrees with you that we're in a quagmire and that there's no end in sight. The presentations today have been very clear. They've been very forthright.

The suggestion by you that people, me or others, are painting a rosy picture is false. There has been balance in my remarks. It's always possible for you to select out a word or two and cite it and suggest that that was the thrust of it, but the fact is, from the beginning of this, we have recognized that this is a tough business. It is difficult, that it is dangerous, and that it is not predictable.

Third, the issue of a guerrilla war, I mean, my goodness, I don't think it's a guerrilla war. You may think so. I don't know if anyone at this table thinks so. It's an insurgency. And it's a semantic issue. But listing that as some sort of crime, or wrongdoing or misleading, it seems to me is a world-class stretch.

I did call them dead-enders. I don't know what else you'd call a suicide bomber. What is a person who straps a vest on themselves, walks into a dining hall, kills themselves and kills innocent Iraqi people or innocent coalition soldiers? It seems to me that that's a perfectly appropriate comment.

With respect to the Iraqi security forces, there's been a great deal of misinformation that's been thrown around in this country. You know, and we have told this committee on repeated occasions, that in the early periods, they included the site protection people, so the numbers were higher by some 80,000. We've said that. It's in the material that's presented to your committee every week or two. There's an asterisk in there, a footnote. It says it. We've repeated it. And to then pull that number out and say it's less today, it seems to me is misleading.

I will say that the idea that what's happening over there is a quagmire is so fundamentally inconsistent with the facts, the reality is that they are making political progress without question. The reality is that the American forces that are training, and equipping and mentoring the Iraqi security forces are doing a darn good job, and the number has been going up steadily and consistently, and I'd be happy to have General Abizaid or General Casey mention the effective work they're doing. To denigrate them and to suggest that they're not capable, to be sure they're not like the U.S. forces. They're never going to be like U.S. forces. There isn't an Army, or a Navy or an Air Force on the face of the earth that's comparable to the United States military, but that doesn't mean that they aren't capable of doing that which needs to be done.

To talk about the total number of 168,500 and suggest that because they all can't be deployed across the country at any given moment with their own lift, and their own intelligence and their own combat support, it seems to me misunderstands the situation. As you know, in the material we give you, a large number of them are police. They're not supposed to deploy any place. Policemen in Washington D.C. Don't get in airplanes and fly to California. These people are trained to be border guards. They don't deploy. They don't need to deploy. They go out to the border and they guard the border. They are policemen. They go to a city and they do their police work. There's a full range of security forces, site protection people. They go out to an oil well, and they sit there and guard the oil well.

There are a limited number of military people and special police battalions that have the responsibility of counterinsurgency, and they do an increasingly good job. So I think I must say that I think that the comments you made are certainly yours to make, and I don't agree with them.

KENNEDY: Well, my time is just expired, but Mr. Secretary, I'm talking about the misjudgments and the mistakes that have made the series which I mentioned, the disarming of the Iraqi army, those were judgments that were made, and there have been a series of gross errors and mistakes. Those are on your watch. Those are on your watch. Isn't it time for you to resign?

RUMSFELD: Senator, i've offered my resignation to the president twice, and he's decided that he would prefer that he not accept it. And that's his call.

KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

GEN. GEORGE CASEY, CMDR., MULTINATIONAL FORCES IN IRAQ: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. As the commander in Iraq, I would like to put myself on the record, Senator Kennedy, as saying that I also agree with the secretary, that to represent the situation in Iraq as a quagmire is a misrepresentation of the facts. And I thought I was fairly clear when I laid out in my testimony about what's going on in Iraq, that you have an insurgency with no vision, no base.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: That was General Casey before the Senate Armed Services Committee. The main chunk of that tape we were listening to, however, between Senator Ted Kennedy and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, two men who from the beginning obviously have had a very different view of the war in Iraq and exactly where it stands right now as well.

Our Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre standing by listening in -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, while we were watching that tape, General Casey was asked again, this time by Senator Jack Reed, simply how long the insurgency can last. How long can it be sustained at this level? And Casey had to admit that it's, in his words, hard to gauge. In fact, it's almost impossible to say. He noted that there's virtually an unlimited supply of ammunition stashed around Iraq that could be raw materials for the suicide bombs and roadside bombs that the insurgents have been using so effectively lately.

So basically, again, no firm answer about how this all will wrap up and when it will happen. But there's a consensus among all the commanders that it's not the military that's going to be able to solve this problem. It's all going to hinge on the political progress in the country. And they continue to cite what they believe is progress on the front of drafting a new constitution and also moving toward elections.

And, again, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld began the day today saying that it would be a huge mistake to send any kind of a timetable or deadline for the withdrawal of U.S. troops. He said that would simply send a lifeline to the terrorists -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Right, no timetable, but then we heard Senator Levin of Michigan mention that there should be some kind of message sent to the Iraqi people, you got to get your act together, you got stay to your political timetable on this constitution and elections. Otherwise, then there could be consequences.

MCINTYRE: And that's one thing that Senator Levin and Secretary Rumsfeld are in firm agreement on. They both believe it would be a disaster for there to be any sort of significant delay in drafting the constitution. What Senator Levin was arguing for was increased pressure from the United States, in fact, a veiled threat, that the U.S. might leave if they don't continue to stay on timeline for drafting that new political process.

And that was his suggestion for how they might change course here at this point, but, again, there is a consensus that that political process has to go forward or this insurgency is just not going to abate at all.

KAGAN: All right, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. We're going to let you go and continue to monitor those hearings. We're going to get in a quick break. We'll bring you more from the hearings and other news of the day after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Let's take a look at what's happening "Now in the News."

Edgar Ray Killen has been sentenced to 60 years in prison for the 1964 killings of three civil rights workers in Mississippi. The 80- year-old former Klansman was convicted of manslaughter on Tuesday, 41 years to the day of the killings. He was given three consecutive 20- year terms, the maximum allowed under the law.

Crews are hoping to contain a 5,500 acre wildfire in southern California today. About 1,000 people were evacuated. At one point, the fire threatened as many as 700 homes near Morongo Valley. That's near Palm Springs. Officials say at least seven were destroyed and a few dozen are still at risk.

China's third largest oil producer has its eye on a major U.S. oil company. The state-run operation has offered $18.5 billion for California-based Unical. Unical already had a tentative deal Chevron for $16.4 billion.

He has the pedigree and now he also has the degree. Britain's Prince William graduated from Saint Andrew's University today with a master of arts in geography. Following his summer break, the prince has three work experience placements. He plans to begin a military training after that.

And now there's a whole new way to get your news on the Web, with free video at CNN.com. Just logon to our Web site, click on "watch" to check out the most popular stories. It's free under your command, right now at CNN.com.

There's been a lot of news breaking and developing this morning, including this out of the U.S. Supreme Court, deciding that the government can seize your home for private economic development, even if it's against your will. That ruling expands the power known as eminent domain.

Kimberly Osias joins us from Washington with more on the story -- Kim.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, obviously, this is a very emotional issue. It was a close decision by the justices, a 5-4 decision. But regardless, it is still the law of the land. A victory being handed to local government, saying that it has the power to seize private property -- and we're talking here about homes, land and the like -- for private economic development. That is the operative word, private economic development.

Traditionally, property has been commandeered and -- by the state in order to eliminate slums, highways, schools. And at issue here is the whether the legal principle known as eminent domain, should be extended even if private business benefits? The answer, yes, The idea to increase tax revenue through economic development. This case really stemmed from a 1998 land dispute in New London, Connecticut. The pharmaceutical giant Pfizer wanted to build a research area some $270 million and the city government ruled that on this Fort Trumbull that the residents had about four months to get out.

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor dissented today, believing that the high court really overstepped its authority. And speaking about the justices, Chief Justice William Rehnquist came on his own power today, was on the bench, was using a cane but left his home and was here for decisions today.

We do know that they are going to be meeting on Monday and Tuesday, as well. Senators on the Senate floor this morning talking about the issue of if there is a vacancy. No official word yet, but that did not stop them from going on the record and getting their words out there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: Like sausage and legislation, the confirmation or rejection of a Supreme Court nomination is not always something pleasant to watch or be a part of. The course is set by the president. If the president submits an in- your-face nomination to flaunt his power, it takes time and effort and sweat and tears before the truth about the candidate is fully discovered and explained to the public and voted on.

Those who want the Senate to be a rubber stamp for a White House nominee to the Supreme Court will undoubtedly try to rush us through our duty. But if we are to do our job to the American people in good faith, the process of considering a Supreme Court nominee cannot be rushed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OSIAS: Senators will be on a July 4th holiday on Monday. When the court meets again, they will also be meeting on Tuesday, as well. Of course, the big decision that everybody is waiting for is on the Ten Commandments. And of course the Chief Justice Rehnquist has been an ardent supporter of religious freedom, so it's expected that he will probably write that decision -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right, Kimberly Osias from Washington D.C. Thank you for the latest out of the Supreme Court.

While we were listening to Kimberly's report, we have some breaking news out of Camden, New Jersey. The search for three missing boys has been going on since last night. And now fire officials plan to use boats to search the Delaware River, just off of Camden, New Jersey. These are three boys, aged five to 11. They are not related to each other, but they were playing together yesterday, and around 5:00 p.m. just disappeared. The boys were playing in the side yard of one of the boys, and that's the last time they were seen by relatives. So the search goes on for these three boys, Jesstin Pagan, Daniel Agosto and Anibal Cruz, ages five to 11 in Camden, New Jersey. We'll continue to get more information on that story and bring it to you, as well as continue to monitor this hearing that's been going on all morning in front of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

That's all ahead. You can see it's still going on. We have a break. We're back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: That's going to do it for me. I'm Daryn Kagan. I'll see you tomorrow morning.

International news is up at the top of the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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