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CNN Live Today

Supreme Court Decisions; BTK Guilty Plea; File Sharing

Aired June 27, 2005 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Here's a look at what is happening "Now in the News."
A divided U.S. Supreme Court issues split decisions on displays of the Ten Commandments. The justices ruled 5-4 that two courthouse exhibits in Kentucky crossed the line of separation between church and state. But in a Texas case, they ruled such displays are OK at state capitols. Our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, will join us in a minute with more on this ruling.

But in the meantime, the suspect arrested in the notorious BTK killings pleads guilty to 10 counts of murder. Dennis Rader waived his right to a trial and entered the plea an hour ago in Wichita, Kansas. Now, the murders between 1974 and 1991 terrorized the Wichita area. We will have a live report from the courthouse just ahead.

Also, President Bush meets with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder at the White House this hour. That meeting comes ahead of the G8 summit in Scotland next month. Mr. Bush and Chancellor Schroeder met earlier this year and declared their dispute over the Iraq war history. Details on today's meeting in a live report at the half-hour.

And now CNN.com is offering a whole new way to get the headlines. All you have to do is log on to our Web site and click on "Watch" to check out the most popular stories, everything from politics and sports to entertainment. And it's absolutely free on CNN.com.

Well, good morning and welcome to CNN LIVE TODAY. It's been a busy one.

It's 8:00 a.m. in California; 11:00 a.m. in Atlanta, Georgia; and 7:00 p.m. in Baghdad. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Betty Nguyen, in for Daryn Kagan today.

First up, high court, high drama. The Supreme Court is ending its 2005 term today and, as usual, the justices save a pair of blockbuster cases for a big finish. The real cliffhanger, though, may be yet to come. Will a justice retire? We have not heard that just yet.

Let's start the hour at the Supreme Court with Kimberly Osias.

And Kimberly, let's walk slowly through each of these decisions, starting with the Ten Commandments.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're all sort of sifting through them right now, Betty. And it seems like the court is splitting hairs on these two related cases, one out of Kentucky and one out of Texas.

The one out of Texas relates to where -- well, both really are where these Ten Commandments can be displayed. In Texas, outside.

Now, issuing that opinion, delivering it from the bench, was Chief Justice Rehnquist. Of course he's been an ardent supporter of religious freedoms, religious rights. So rather fitting, in fact, that he wrote this opinion.

A very tight decision, a 5-4 decision, basically saying that a large granite monument can stay that had the large lettering with "I am the Lord thy God" in front of the Texas Capitol there.

Now, in -- seemingly contrasted to that, a related case, the Kentucky case, the ruling came down 5-4 in favor of the ACLU. Writing that opinion, Justice Souter. the swing vote was cast by Justice O'Connor. Basically, no Ten Commandments will be allowed in the courthouse even if they are displayed alongside some other more secular documents -- Betty.

NGUYEN: All right. And then next up, the file sharing case. How did that turn out?

OSIAS: Big, big victory for the entertainment industry, for MGM. Basically 9-0, unanimous opinion here. The justices clearly saying that there can be no Internet file swapping, of course protecting copyrighted material, music and the like, photos, et cetera. This is definitely an area that the justices have sort of tiptoed into, some of them in their 50s, 60s and 70s, being a bit behind technology.

NGUYEN: And another case that the Supreme Court dealt with today, dealing with journalists, and two journalists specifically, and the refusal to admit to their sources. How did that one turn out?

OSIAS: They will not hear -- they ruled that they will not hear the case. So then it will go to -- back to a lower court to determine what happens.

Two journalists that protected their sources, of course, very, very important for all of us on this side of the business to have that right. "The New York Times" has issued a statement saying they are very disappointed with that decision regarding the leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame, the two journalists that would not release that, even though there was a grand jury investigation going on -- Betty.

NGUYEN: CNN's Kimberly Osias walking us through all the decisions made today. Kimberly, thank you so much for that.

And we do want to remind you that we are still waiting to hear whether or not a justice will announce retirement today. That announcement has not been made today. We don't know if it's going to be made. But the court has adjourned. They are in meetings right now. And if it's going to be announced, we understand that it will typically be in announced in those meetings.

So we are waiting, standing by. And we'll bring you the latest as soon as we know it.

We want to bring in our legal analyst now, Jeffrey Toobin, to talk about all of these decisions that were made.

Many of them were made today, Jeffrey. And I think the one that a lot of people had their eyes on -- well, all of them -- but, one in particular, the Ten Commandments. A split decision here. And I think some people may look at this and be still a little confused on where the court stands.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think the court is a little confused on where it stands. I mean, this is an area that they have struggled with literally for decades, the issue of religious expression in public, whether it's a Christmas creche, whether it's crosses, whether it's a prayer at a football game.

These decisions have come up over and over again. And the court, frankly, has been all over the map. And that's never better illustrated than today, where the Texas display is approved and the Kentucky display is rejected.

You know, the differences, frankly, seem a little less than the similarities between the two. But Justice O'Connor thought there was a difference. She was the swing vote, approving one, rejecting the other. And that's the -- that's the law of the land.

NGUYEN: Jeffrey, you were in the courtroom today when all of this was read. And we understand Chief Justice William Rehnquist read the decision dealing with the Ten Commandments in the Texas case. There's a lot of speculation whether he is going to announce retirement.

You were there. Tell us how he sounded. How did he appear today?

TOOBIN: I thought he sounded awful, frankly. I thought he sounded sick.

NGUYEN: Really?

TOOBIN: And, you know, I have seen him since he's come back from the bench in March several times, and frankly, he looked worse than the spring, than earlier appearances I had seen.

His voice, he speaks with a respirator. It's very -- it's hard to understand him.

He's obviously of sound mind. He made a very funny joke, actually, which is somewhat unusual, in the Texas case. There were so many opinions, there were concurring and dissenting opinions. And then when he finished announcing that, he said, "Boy, I didn't know we had that many people on this court." And everybody in the courtroom broke out in laughter.

So he's obviously of sound mind. But he looked like a very sick man, who, you know, may or may not be back in the fall. I don't know.

NGUYEN: We'll be watching to see if any announcement is made today. Legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, thank you for that.

Now to Kansas. BTK serial killer suspect Dennis Rader pleaded guilty last hour to 10 counts of murder. He is speaking right now. This is a live picture of that.

Let's go to CNN's Jonathan Freed, who is outside the courthouse, to talk about today's developments -- Jonathan.

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Betty.

About an hour ago, Dennis Rader in court here in Sedgwick County, in Wichita, told the community here, "Yes, I am what I've been accused of. I am the BTK strangler." He pleaded guilty to those 10 counts of first-degree murder from 1974 to 1991.

Now, what's going on right now, still, in the courtroom, is Judge Greg Waller, District Judge Greg Waller, is talking to Mr. Rader and trying to satisfy himself, the judge is, that Mr. Rader did indeed commit the acts that he has said that he's guilty of.

And let's listen to what happened about half an hour ago, when he described to the judge what he did in 1974 when he killed Joseph and Julie Otero and two of their children.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENNIS RADER, PLEADED GUILTY OF BTK MURDERS: I didn't have a mask on or anything. They already could I.D. me. And I made a decision to go ahead and put them down, I guess, or strangle them.

JUDGE GREGORY WALLER: All right. What did you do to Joseph Otero?

RADER: Justice Otero?

WALLER Joseph Otero Sr., Mr. Otero, the father.

RADER: I put a plastic bag over his head and then some cords and then tightened it.

WALLER: This was in the bedroom?

RADER: Yes, sir.

WALLER: Did he in fact suffocate and die as a result of this?

RADER: Not right away. No, sir, he didn't.

WALLER: What happened?

RADER: Well, after that, I did Mrs. Otero. I had never strangled anyone before, so I really didn't know how much pressure you had to put on a person or how long it would take. But...

WALLER: Was she also tied up there?

RADER: Yes. Yes, both their hands and their feet were tied up. She was...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREED: Betty, it's really quite something to listen to Mr. Rader so dispassionately detailing of the crimes that he has now today admitted to having committed during that 10-year period -- 30-year period span between 1974 and 1991.

And I have been covering this case, Betty, for about a year and a half at this point, almost. And I'm very familiar with all the facts in the case. So it's affecting me personally to listen to Mr. Rader detail what he did.

I can only imagine -- I can hardly imagine what it must be like for the families of the victims sitting in that courtroom right now having to listen to him describe what he did to their loved ones. And this is still going on right now.

NGUYEN: Very true. You make a very good point, because as I watched it, I was just cringing listening to all these graphic details.

He talked about how he stalked some of these victims. We're going to take another listen into the courtroom so we can hear more of what Mr. Rader is saying.

WALLER: I will accept these pleas of guilty, and I judge you, Dennis L. Rader, guilty of murder in the first degree murder in count one, a Class A felony; murder in the first degree in count two, a Class A felony; murder in the first degree in count three, a Class A felony; murder in the first degree in count four, a Class A felony; murder in the first degree in count five, a Class A felony; murder in the first degree in count six, a Class A felony; murder in the first degree in count seven, a Class A felony; murder in the first degree in count eight, a Class A felony; murder in the first degree in count nine, a Class A felony; and murder in the first degree in count 10, a Class A felony.

I will, at this time, order pre-sentence investigation. I will schedule sentencing on counts one through nine for August 17 at 9:00 in the morning.

NGUYEN: There you have it, the judge has accepted the guilty plea on all 10 counts from Dennis Rader.

Let's go back to CNN's Jonathan Freed.

This is coming awfully quickly. A lot of developments in court today on a day when many folks weren't really sure what was going to happen because not much was known about the defense's tactic.

FREED: That's right, Betty. There were a lot of questions as to what exactly was going to happen today.

The defense had been expected to ask for a continuance sometime in the last month or so, which would basically mean, we're not ready to go to trial, your honor, this is a huge case, let's delay it. In early May, the last time that Mr. Rader appeared here in court, the district attorney herself was out here talking to these two -- all the cameras and all the reporters, saying that she didn't expect this case to come up much before October.

So here we are, today was the scheduled start of the trial. And Mr. Rader has pleaded guilty, again, for those of us just joining -- those of you just joining now, pleading guilty to 10 counts of first- degree murder. And the sentencing hearing has now been set by Judge Greg Waller here August 17.

What's going to happen, Betty, between now and the 17th of August, is you might have heard the judge refer to a pre-sentence investigation. The parole board is involved in that. They dig deeply into Mr. Rader's background to provide the judge with a depth and breadth of information about Mr. Rader, anything he may or may not have done before, and everything pertaining to this case, that he can make an informed decision as to how to handle sentencing.

And then there would actually be on the 17th a hearing in open court where witnesses could come forward, relatives of the victims, to make statements, that kind of thing.

NGUYEN: All right. CNN's Jonathan Freed.

We're going to bring in now legal analyst Kendall Coffey to talk a little bit more about what we've heard. Frankly, a lot of people may call it shocking because there were some graphic details.

And Kendall, I don't think a lot of people expected to hear it come out of the mouth of Dennis Rader in the frank fashion in which it did. Have you ever heard of anything like this happening before?

KENDALL COFFEY, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY: Never. Interview with a serial killer. It was chilling. And, of course, he described these horrifying things as if it was just sort of another day at the office.

NGUYEN: Right. He was so calm in his description. Like I said, graphic descriptions of what he did to his victims.

COFFEY: And, of course, the -- from the judge's standpoint, it's a plea (INAUDIBLE). That means he needs to get the specific facts to make sure that this is a guilty plea that can never seriously be challenged. And boy, after everything we've heard, I can't imagine anyone ever questions this guy getting the maximum punishment possible.

NGUYEN: Do you think in Dennis Rader's mind this way -- this is a way to seal into the history books that he is the BTK strangler?

COFFEY: I think so. When you think of all the different times along the way when he kept sort of in some perverse way wanting to wave his hands and say, it's really me, at the same time, if ever there was a case where trying to defend a trial would have been an exercise in ultimate futility, this was the one.

The evidence was overwhelming. And unlike most cases of first- degree murder, he couldn't possibly face the death penalty.

He was going to get the rest of his life in prison no matter how many of the 10 convictions took place. So this trial would have meant nothing except more agony for all concerned. And I think it did give Dennis Rader his very strange 50 or 60 minutes in the spotlight today as he recounted the chilling details.

NGUYEN: What does his testimony today do to his sentencing?

COFFEY: Well, I think it absolutely assures that he will get the maximum sentence possible, which will is going to be 10 consecutive life sentences, meaning, the way Kansas calculates it, that he would not be eligible for parole in less than 175 years. He will never see the light of day.

I think that this process of going through the details will at least bring closure for the victims and their families. And the sentencing itself will allow the opportunity for survivors of his murder spree to communicate to the court, to share their feelings. So at least once the sentencing is finally done, the final chapter is written, and it may help some of the people who have suffered terribly to move on with their lives.

NGUYEN: Legal analyst Kendall Coffey, thank you for that.

And coming up next, a check of the financial markets. Plus, we'll explain what today's Supreme Court ruling on file sharing means to you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: It's a Monday, so let's see how Wall Street is doing so far. Up $1.45 at 10299, and the Nasdaq, we understand, is down about 5.5, at 2047.

The Supreme Court justices today said file-sharing services shouldn't get a free pass. They all agreed that companies selling file-sharing software can be held liable for copyright infringement.

CNN Technology Correspondent Daniel Sieberg is here to explain what that might mean to you and your iPod.

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And now, to your iPod, if you're using a legal service, you're still OK. NGUYEN: You're OK. All right.

SIEBERG: Yes, because those types of services have popped up in the last few years and have become very popular. But what this case was looking at are these file-sharing networks.

You might remember something called Napster from a while ago. Well, in this case, we're talking about Grokster and others that are part of the StreamCast networks.

The way these work are a little bit different than Napster of the past. These use something called pier-to-pier services. Now, what that means is, they are basically setting you up so that whatever files you want to share on your computer -- now, they can be illegally or legal files -- they help you find somebody else somewhere on the World Wide Web to share your files with.

In the last couple of years, the recording industry has been going after the users of these networks and suing them. And in this case, the Supreme Court is saying it's OK to go after these particular services.

These companies, StreamCast networks, among others, have argued that their technology allows people to share anything, not just illegal files. And, therefore, it should be allowed to exist.

The multimedia companies, MGM and others, the recording industry, have said that they are promoting illegal file-sharing use and, therefore, they should be shut down. And in this case, the Supreme Court agreed with them.

NGUYEN: Well, and some people, though, still argue, don't kill the messenger. They're providing a service, if someone uses it to do something illegal, then that's on them. But the Supreme Court said, no, you can't get off that easy.

So my question to you is, if you can't do that anymore, if these software companies can't provide this service anymore, is that going to stifle innovative designs, business, software, stuff like that?

SIEBERG: That's a huge argument coming from different groups, like the Electronic Frontier Foundation, who worry that a decision like this could really put -- dampen some of these technologies. And they worry that they won't be developed as much, that there is a fear because of this type of a decision.

Betty mentioned some of the previous decisions. And this case was actually based on what happened with Sony and Betamax in the 1970s. In that case, they argued that there was substantial non- infringing uses, non-infringing against copyright use. In this case, though, the court agreeing that there were substantial infringement uses with this type of technology.

So they worry that this type of technology, at least a lot of technologists do, that this type of technology may not be expanded in the future. However, the recording industry, movie industry, saying this is a great decision.

NGUYEN: All right. Daniel Sieberg, thanks for straightening it all out for us. We appreciate that.

SIEBERG: All right.

NGUYEN: There's much more to come, including we are going to introduce you to the man behind this Texas lawsuit which the Supreme Court ruled on today dealing with the Ten Commandments. Stay tuned for that.

You're watching CNN LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: The plaintiff who sued the state of Texas over a Ten Commandments display isn't your typical lawyer. You won't find him on the name plate of a prestigious law firm or in some high-rise office. As CNN's Ed Lavandera reports, he's kind of hard to find at all.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Finding Thomas Van Orden takes time and patience. All we really know about him is that he spends a lot of time in libraries.

(on camera): That's the building where the state law library is and where Thomas Van Orden hangs out throughout much of the day. And just a few feet away is the monument of the Ten Commandments, which is just in the shadow of the state capitol here in Austin.

(voice-over): You'd think if you wanted to talk to the lawyer who sued the state of Texas to remove a Ten Commandments monument from public grounds that you'd just pick up the phone and call him. But this lawyer doesn't have a phone, much less an assistant.

(on camera): We're told this is the area that Thomas Van Orden normally hangs out in throughout the day.

(voice-over): These desks in the state law library are his office. No brass name plates here. Only a newspaper clipping on the wall with his picture.

(on camera): This is where he likes to have lunch during the day. So we'll keep looking for him.

(voice-over): Eventually we end up at the University of Texas Law School.

(on camera): We think we have found Thomas Van Orden here at the UT Law School. The problem is, he's in that room at the end of the hallway there and he's asleep. So we're going to wait for him to wake up.

THOMAS VAN ORDEN, HOMELESS ATTORNEY: I don't think I'm creative. LAVANDERA (voice-over): A few minutes later, Van Orden is awake. And we go outside for an interview. It's impromptu, and we quickly learn he isn't your typical attorney.

VAN ORDEN: It's a little of the que sera sera attitude. You know? I think we all go through life that way sometimes. You know?

LAVANDERA: For the last three years, Van Orden has been writing legal briefs and documents, filing and mailing the paperwork himself. It doesn't sound like a big deal, except Thomas Van Orden is homeless.

VAN ORDEN: Each day you're writing it's hard to get out of your mind that all this is a joke, because when you finish, you don't have any money to make copies. And you don't have any money to send it to (INAUDIBLE). That wears on you, it really does.

LAVANDERA: He agreed to share his story of how a homeless attorney living off $150 a month in food stamps spearheaded such a controversial Supreme Court case on the condition we don't talk about how he ended up on the streets or show you the tent he lives in.

VAN ORDEN: It's just not their business. I mean, there may be aspects of their life that would fascinate me, too, but I don't go asking them about it. The niceties of polite society apply to me, too.

LAVANDERA: Van Orden describes himself as a Robert Kennedy liberal, a strict believer of separating church and state. But he worries people think he's anti-religion.

VAN ORDEN: I did not sue the Ten Commandments. I didn't sue Christianity or Judaism. I sued the government.

LAVANDERA: It's said that arguing a case before the Supreme Court can be the professional pinnacle of an attorney's career. Van Orden made, it but he hasn't been able to enjoy the experience in person. Another attorney appeared at the high court for him.

VAN ORDEN: I'll follow it on the news media.

LAVANDERA: Van Orden has refused to let friends pay his way to Washington. Instead, he'll find out what happens from the law libraries where his legal journey start. After the Supreme Court's decision, he'll go back to his tent, wherever it might be, to sleep.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, Austin, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Shifting gears now, will the Northeast heat wave break anytime soon? We do have a check of the nation's weather forecast. That is coming up next.

Plus, the president hosts -- plays host to his German counterpart. The two leaders were at odds over the Iraq war. We will tell you if relations are now on the mend.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: "Now in the News," the Supreme Court ruled today the Ten Commandments can not be displayed at courthouses. But in a comparison case, the justices determined that Ten Commandments on display on the ground of the Texas State Capitol was permissible. The rulings appeared narrowly tailored to each particular station.

In Kansas, the BTK killer pleaded guilty today to 10 murders. Dennis Rader waived his right to a trial. The serial killings took place in and around Wichita, Kansas, from 1974 to 1991. BTK stands for bind, torture and kill, the method Rader used on victims.

Gas prices are nearing record levels again. Analysts say self- serve regular has climbed 8 cents to an average $2.21 a gallon. Another 8-cent climb would push gas past the record it set back in April.

And two of Saddam Hussein's top lieutenants have appeared before the Iraqi war crimes tribunal. Former Prime Minister Tariq Aziz was questioned last Tuesday. And the man known as Chemical Ali has made his second appearance in front of the panel. He was questioned about the use of chemical weapons against the Kurds in 1988.

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