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Daring and Delicate NASA Mission Ends in Success; In Iraq, 14 Marines Dead After Blast Near Western Town of Haditha

Aired August 03, 2005 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take a look at what's happening now in the news. A daring and delicate mission ends in success. Astronaut Steve Robinson pulled two pieces of ceramic material from between heat-resistant tiles on Shuttle Discovery's underbelly. His space walk lasted nearly six hours.
In Iraq, 14 U.S. Marines are dead after a blast near the Western town of Haditha. Officials say a roadside bomb struck the Marines' vehicle. An interpreter was also killed and one Marine was wounded. A Marine Corps official said the 14 Marines that died today were members of the same Ohio-based battalion that lost six Marines two days ago near the same city.

Zambia clearing the way for terror suspect Haroon Rashid Aswat, believed to have been involved in the July 7th attacks in London, to be deported to Britain. Zambia's president signed Aswat's deportation papers today. British officials say they confirmed he is a British citizen. Aswat is also wanted in the U.S. in connection with two active terrorism cases.

Iran's new president-elect takes office today. He is a hardline conservative. He formerly became the country's new leader after a pronouncement from the Iranian's supreme leader, Ayatollah Al-Khomeni. The first inauguration ceremony was held earlier today. A second more traditional inauguration is scheduled for Saturday. He won a landslide victory in June.

An increased spotlight is now on Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. He came in second place in the mayoral primary election on Tuesday. Kilpatrick and a former deputy mayor led the candidate -- 12-candidate race. They'll both compete in November's general election. Kirkpatrick's first term saw scandals including a $300 budget deficit and his large expense bill on a city credit card.

Supreme Court nominee John Roberts has written an essay. His goes to senators who will ultimately decide whether he takes a seat on the high bench. Judge Roberts says he'll respect past Supreme Court rulings, but did not mention specific precedents, like those on abortion, and he pledged to shy away from judicial activism. Roberts writes, quote, "Judges do not have a commission to solve society's problems as they see them, but simply to decide cases before them according to the rule of law." The questionnaire reveals Judge Roberts had his first interview April 1st, well before Justice O'Connor announced her retirement. It also shows he is a multimillionaire. President Bush, meanwhile, is wading into the origin of life thicket. He wants schools to have the option of teaching intelligent design alongside evolution. The view promotes the belief that some higher force must have had a hand in human development, not necessarily a religious force, mind you, but there is the rub. One opponent says intelligent design is nothing more than creationism in a cheap tuxedo. I'm going to weigh into this debate myself with our guest in just a moment.

First, though, here's our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): The Scopes trial took place 80 years ago, but the debate over evolution continues to rage. This week, President Bush repeated a view he expressed in the 2000 presidential campaign.

Speaking to a group of reporters, the president said, "I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought. You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas. The answer is yes."

Most Americans don't have a problem with that. A "Newsweek" poll taken last December asked people whether they favored teaching creation science in addition to evolution in the public schools. The answer, by better than 2-1, was yes. Results like that drive many scientists crazy. They say efforts to dress up the biblical story of creation as a science -- it's now called intelligent design -- are really attempts to inject religion or politics into education.

HENRY KELLY, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF SCIENTISTS: There are well established ways of making your argument, and these people are not using those methods.

SCHNEIDER: In March, the CNN-"USA Today"-Gallup poll asked Americans if they would be upset if the theory of evolution was taught in the public schools. No problem, 63 percent said. What about the theory of creationism, defined as the idea that human beings were created by God in their present form and did not evolve from other species of animals? No problem, 76 percent said.

Most Democrats, self-described liberals and people with postgraduate degrees don't object to the teaching of creationism. Most Americans want to be open-minded, teach different theories. Scientists insist you refute a scientific theory with a better scientific theory, one that can be tested.

KELLY: Let's not pretend that this has anything to do with science.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And we're going to interrupt that piece right now by Bill Schneider to go to NASA and the latest news briefing on the Shuttle Discovery.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... as they were getting ready to go outside, and while they were outside, you can judge for ourselves the good spirits they're in, and deservedly so. You heard yesterday from Wayne, a concern about Eileen's side window. We took some pictures of the blanket around that window before, and the engineering analysis. We really some wanted better imagery for their imagery analysis, so that we could do some aero-heating analysis and some debris-transport analysis. And in order to accommodate that, we brought down some video before the crew woke up from the elbow camera on the shuttle arm, where it was already parked overnight with the OBBS on it, and we have that video clip we can show.

And you can see where the blanket's protruding there just a little bit above the 'D' in Discovery. This gives you a pretty good view, but, in fact, it's not the right angle for the folks in engineering to make the best analysis they can of what's going on with that blanket. So they asked us to take a few more shots. And today after the -- after we were finished with the OBSS, looking under the vehicle, while Steve was down there pulling those gap fillers, while the OBSS was on its way to the parking space, we took it took a couple of positions to get a better view of this from below looking up where the blanket's pulling off, and we have a digital still we can switch to.

This just shows you arm position. Now, during the EVA that boom was hanging down so that we could get a really good view underneath of Steve while he was at the worksite pulling the gap-filler. So on the way back up to our parking spot for that OBSS, which is pretty much sticking up in the page, as we're looking at it there, we just stopped at this position. And we got a video of that blanket from below, a little bit lower position than you saw in that last shot.

And then on the next picture, you can see another angle we took. The whole idea is we were trying to look at this blanket from underneath to see what the bottom side would look like, because we already had a lot of good images of the upper surface. In the next two shots will give you an idea of what the field of view from those two arm positions was. This is one side, and then on the next picture, this gives you a better idea. A little bit further aft and also looking up. As I was walking out of the building and coming over here we had finished taking this data, and you could have seen some of it come down in realtime. So we already have a really good idea what that video's going to look at.

Now we recorded it onboard as high-resolution digital TV, which we would have been uplinking sometime here in the last hour. They may have that on the ground by now also. So that will be in the hands of the analysts. That will feed right into a handful of analysis and tests that have been at work and will be in work through tomorrow, with the following report schedule for the MMT, I think, tomorrow, based on all of this imagery. We'll see where that data takes us.

In the background, Kelly Beckstine (ph), out there finished with her gap-filler work, is off looking at options for if we get an answer we really don't like and the tests and the analysis, that will give us an opportunity to go outside and do something about this. Although we don't expect that a very likely outcome, we always like to be prepared.

And with that, I'll turn it over to Mark.

MARK FERRING, LEAD ISS FLIGHT DIRECTOR: Thanks, Paul.

Well, what an exciting day, huh? Being in the team that was part of the execution of this EVA, I just had to say is probably one of the highlights of my career. I wanted to, in addition to, of course, the marvelous performance of the crew, of the orchestrator, the EVA, Andy Thomas as the IV and Soichi and Steve, they just did a flawless job. I wanted to also recognize the flight-control team, our team members in the space station flight-control room.

Mike Masamino (ph), our CAMCOM (ph), (INAUDIBLE) Matasease (ph), our robotics officer, and, of course, Cindy Begley, who's our EVA officer for the mission. I think the coordination between all of those players and the shuttle flight-control room went extremely well, and I just want to give them credit for all that work. And, of course, as Paul indicated, there's been a whole mountain of people that have been working to the over the last three or four days to try to pull together the complex choreography of this particular EVA.

And if you were watching and listening to the whole thing, you know we had the shuttle arm and the OBSS moving kind of at about the same time as the SS arm that was moving, also as the crew were doing multiple task in parallel while we were walking off, the station arm to the trust and then getting ready to do the task with the gap- filler. It was a lot more complicated, I think, than it looks, and it was a testament to that whole team that it came off, I think, looking fairly straightforward from the layperson's view.

I wanted to say a few words about the primary station task we had today on the external...

... I wanted to say a few words about the primary station task we had today on the external stoich (ph) platform. You might have noticed our nominal plan had us move the stoich platform during this EVA and then finish the bolting down of it during the CVA.

Well, in order to have the gap filler task, we ended up pulling that stoich (ph) platform out of the bay yesterday and prepositioning it overnight on the robotic arm, the station robotic arm. You might also notice we plugged in heaters today once we got installed. We do need heaters for the long run, but the particular sun angles we were at and the orientation of the stack of both the shuttle and the station allowed us to have it out overnight without any particular thermal problems, with all the spares that are on that storage platform. So we were OK to leave it there overnight.

You might have noticed that we did have a little problem when we installed it today, which is, of course, why we have humans in space and humans on the ground kind of helping them. If this is robotic, we may or may not have been able to deal with this. But...

KAGAN: We wanted to go ahead and listen into the NASA news briefing. It was a big day, as you were hearing the NASA officials talk about. We saw astronaut Steve Robinson go out and be able to remove and that's his space walk -- as you see him just tethered there -- remove the gap fillers that were of some concern, that could cause a problem upon re-entry. That went beautifully.

Now they're looking at this thermal blanket, not sure on how much damage is there, so they're taking pictures. They're still assessing. There might be another space walk involved in trying to fix that, although NASA is saying at this point that probably at this point is unlikely, but they feel good knowing they have that option to still do that.

Interrupted our coverage of the intelligent design debate and do you teach it in public schools. We're going to get back to that and do that after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: OK. We like to keep things kind of fluid here in the morning to get the developing news to you. We interrupted our report and our debate on intelligent design and do you teach it in public schools to get the latest from NASA. Now let's get back to the topic of intelligent design.

School boards in more than a dozen states are considering teaching intelligent design curriculums. Already one case from Pennsylvania is headed to trial. So let's talk about if this is a good idea.

William Dembski is with the Discovery Institute. That's the organization at the center of the intelligent design movement. He is in Dallas this morning. And in Los Angeles, Michael Shermer is the founder of the Skeptics Society, which focuses on science and how it interacts with controversial ideas. Gentlemen, good morning.

WILLIAM DEMBSKI, DISCOVERY INSTITUTE: Good morning.

MICHAEL SHERMER, SKEPTICS SOCIETY: Good morning.

KAGAN: And I thank you for your patience and going with the flow of us here.

Bill Dembski, I want to start with you because in the intro to Bill Schneider's piece, there was what some people might consider a cheap shot at your idea. They -- in calling intelligent design "creationism in a cheap tuxedo." In other words, just a way to get creationism into public schools. What do you say to that?

DEMBSKI: Well, I think I would want to distinguish intelligent design from creationism. Creationism is always a doctrine about where did everything come from ultimately. Intelligent design is really -- really falls under the engineering sciences. What we found is in the last 30 years, with advances in molecular biology and biochemistry, the information sciences, that there are features of biological systems that cannot be understood and explained apart from intelligence or purpose.

And what we have in the cell, for instance. We've got signal transduction circuitry, complex motors, miniature machines. We need nanotechnology, engineering sciences, to understand these systems and explain how they came about in the first place. On the other hand, existing evolutionary theory has come up utterly short in explaining things like, for instance, a little bacterial motor called the bacteria...

KAGAN: So are you explaining that by saying that it's God that answers those questions?

DEMBSKI: No. What we're saying is that there's an intelligence involved. I mean, the thing is, ultimate -- what is the ultimate intelligence behind things? It could be an alien intelligence, it could natural intelligence built into the world. Aristotle was not a creationist. He held that nature was endowed with kiliogy (ph), with purpose, with intelligence, but that that was natural, that intelligence was perfectly natural. So, philosophically...

KAGAN: OK, let me just jump in here. You're saying there's more than just science can explain, science as we know it today. Michael Shermer, what's wrong with presenting other ideas in public schools?

SHERMER: Well, hopefully these other ideas are already being presented. For example, in June I attended a conference on evolutionary theory in the Galapagos Islands, in which there was great debate and much criticism of Darwinian explanations.

KAGAN: But we're not talking about Galapagos Islands, we're talking about our public schools here in the United States.

SHERMER: Oh, I -- if you let me make my point.

KAGAN: OK, go ahead.

SHERMER: That there was great debate at this conference about explaining, for example, the origins of complex cells, the stuff Bill was just talking about. And those kinds of debates go on all the time in science. And those are the kinds of debates that should be taught in public schools; that is, scientific debates.

What intelligent design offers is not a scientific explanation, it's just a statement that we can't figure out how to explain this through science, so let's just say an intelligence did it. But that doesn't explain anything.

DEMBSKI: But that's absolutely false. I mean, we need intelligence to explain engineering systems. Is engineering a science or is it not, Michael? I mean, you know better than that.

SHERMER: But what does it mean to say the DNA was intelligently designed? How did the intelligence do it?

DEMBSKI: What does it means to say that a computer program was intelligently designed? I mean, it's...

KAGAN: Well, I'd like to jump in here.

DEMBSKI: It's the same thing. It's got digital data storage there.

KAGAN: Bill, let me just jump in here just a second, because I have a few questions here. What do you mean by intelligence? Are you -- you're saying that it could be -- each individual is able to describe intelligence?

DEMBSKI: What we are talking about with intelligence is that there's a purposive, directed process. What Michael is talking about with evolution is an undirected, purposeless process. OK, I was at a debate at the American Museum of Natural History three years ago. The debate question posed to me was: "Blind evolution or intelligent design?" Question mark. When I showed up at the debate, the program guides had left off the word blind and it suddenly evolution or intelligent design.

The issue is whether -- I mean, everybody agrees that life has changed over the course of history. It is what was responsible for that change. What Michael is saying is that there was no intelligence, no one purpose, no direction, that it's all blind chance, trial and error tinkering, that that's what brought about all the great complexity and diversity of life that we see.

KAGAN: Well -- wait, hold on. Gentlemen, let me jump in here because our time is short. I'd appreciate if you would only present your own side instead of putting words in the other person's side. So in our time that is short, Michael, you tell me what you would like to see taught in the public schools and then Bill, we'll get you the final say there.

SHERMER: What should be taught is the best science available and that science, in a free marketplace of ideas, is what appears in peer- reviewed scientific journals and what is what's practiced by professional scientists. That's what should be taught. If you can't get your ideas in the marketplace because they're good and you turn to the government to have them taught, that isn't how science is done. And that's now how a free society should operate.

KAGAN: One quick follow-up question to you. Should that free marketplace of ideas be the schools? Should students be allowed to see these different ideas themselves instead of have it selected for them?

SHERMER: Well, of course, students should be exposed to whatever the cutting-edge ideas are, and, in science, that's what the best science is. And you have to be able to sell your ideas to other scientists in journals. That's how it's done.

KAGAN: It's on going debate. Bill, we gave you the first word. Michael, you the last. Gentlemen, thank you. And, again, once again, thanks for your flexibility. Kind of a fluid day here at CNN. Appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.

It is a bittersweet day for the Torres family. A very small, but healthy baby girl was born yesterday. Her mother, though, is brain dead from cancer. Their story is just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Before we get to our "Daily Dose" news, we want to get to Barbara Starr at the Pentagon with news of this Marine battalion out of a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio. Very, very distressing news for this battalion today.

Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Daryn. It now appears that the 14 U.S. Marines killed in Iraq earlier today along with the six killed on Monday did come from the same Ohio Marine Corps Reserve unit. That is what that unit spokesman is telling the Associated Press. We have just concluded a press briefing here, asking top officials what they believe is going on in western Iraq, near the town of Haditha, where there had been these two attacks.

What they tell us is that there is a U.S. military offensive along the Euphrates Valley in western Iraq, where they have been moving against the insurgents, trying to reassert control in that area. And now they are seeing some of these attacks. They believe the insurgents are fighting back.

Let's listen for just a minute to what one top general had to say here just a few moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GEN. CARTER HAM, U.S. ARMY: So I think what we're seeing here is a concerted effort to assert control, ultimately Iraqi control in those towns, and this resistance that is coming from the insurgents in those towns.

Perhaps previously they may have had an opportunity to move. For example, if there was pressure in Haditha they could perhaps move someplace else. Well now because of the simultaneity of operations that Multinational Force West is conducting, they don't have that freedom of movement, and I think that's one of the contributing causes to this -- to these number of direct contacts that are occurring.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: So General Ham saying he feels the insurgents are feeling the pressure, and that is why they are launching these deadly attacks against U.S. Marines.

But Daryn, there is more distressing news certainly. An Ansar Al-Suna (ph) Web site, an insurgent Web site, has now indeed posted a photograph of a man who is dead, who is terribly, terribly injured, appears to be wearing Marine Corps camouflage, military-uniform type trousers. We cannot show you that picture. We have seen it. It is simply not suitable for broadcasting. Ansar Al-Suna They are claiming that this is a United States Marine that they took and killed.

Now, the only possibility, according to the Marines, might be that there is the sixth man in that attack on Monday. Five of the Marines died in the initial attack. One Marine was found dead about three miles away from the initial attack. No one had been able to say so far with certainty what happened to that sixth man, why it was he was found dead three miles away from where his colleagues were found dead. That is part of the Marine Corps investigation. There is a photograph now, not verified yet that the man in that photograph is a United States marine -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you for those latest developments.

Let's get to our "Daily Dose" now, a story of hope and sadness topping our medical news this morning. A pregnant woman who was kept on life support for three months has given birth to a baby girl. Susan Torres collapsed in May from melanoma that has spread to her brain. She was kept on life support to give the baby more time to develop. Torres was about seven months pregnant when the child was delivered yesterday. A relative says the baby girl weighs one pound 13 ounces and is doing well. We expect to hear more from the baby's father. He will speak to reporters this afternoon, 2:30 Eastern. CNN will carry that live.

And that's going to do it for me. I'm Daryn Kagan.

The news continues here on CNN. International news is up next. Stay tuned for YOUR WORLD TODAY after a quick break. I'll see you tomorrow morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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