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CNN Live Today

Supreme Court Vacancy; Relatives of Patients Who Died in Louisiana Nursing Homes During Katrina Looking for Answers

Aired September 21, 2005 - 11:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get into politics now. There is still a Supreme Court vacancy to fill for President Bush to nominate somebody. In fact, this morning, the president invited a bipartisan group of Senate leaders to discuss a replacement for Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. A key interest here is the fact that whomever replaces O'Connor could alter the delicate balance of the Supreme Court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D), MINORITY LEADER: There was a discussion of names. They were -- it was mainly our suggesting names to him and talking about name to him. The president of course didn't discuss any names that he brought forward to us. But I think he has a pretty good idea how we all feel about some of the names. We gave him quite a few.

SEN. BILL FRIST (R), MAJORITY LEADER: I did express to the president that if the nomination came quickly, that we on the floor of the United States Senate and working with the Judiciary Committee would be able to handle that nomination in a timely fashion, and I believe we can do it by Thanksgiving if that nomination comes quickly enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider joins us from Washington to explain more about what's at stake? Bill, good morning.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POL. ANALYST: Good morning, Daryn.

Before we get to the O'Connor nomination, O'Connor replacement nomination, let's talk about what's coming up tomorrow, the Senate Judiciary Committee will be voting on the nomination of John Roberts as the next chief justice of the United States. We've been listening to different Democrats come out since yesterday. They are not united on this, Bill. We are hearing some like Harry Reid, the Senate minority leader, who we heard from there, say he won't vote for John Roberts. But we heard from Senator Patrick Leahy, who also was standing by his side, saying that he will.

SCHNEIDER: That's right. That's a big surprise, because it looks like Democrats are split. Patrick Leahy is the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, and of course Harry Reid is the leader of the Democrats in the Senate. So you have a leadership split on this issue, sending very mixed signals. Reid was a bit of a surprise yesterday, because he came out early. He was the first Democrat formally to announce a position. Now Senator Kennedy has also said he would vote against Roberts.

Reid is a bit of a surprise, because personally, he's anti- abortion. He cited Roberts' unwillingness to answer questions, particularly about his record on civil rights, and voting rights and women's rights, but he didn't mention abortion because Reid is, personally, antiabortion.

KAGAN: All right, let's talk about the next choice, and that is who will now have the nomination to replace Sandra Day O'Connor, now that John Roberts has moved on into the chief justice position. President Bush facing a tough choice on this one?

SCHNEIDER: He certainly is. He's, a, in a diminished political position compared to where he was in July when he named Roberts. His job ratings are much, much lower after the Katrina, and gas prices and continuing troubles in Iraq. He doesn't have the standing he did back in July, and this is a much more contentious nomination. Basically he's facing a choice. He could name a more ideological conservative nominee who would please his base, and his base is about all he's got really behind him now, and he doesn't want to create trouble with his conservative base. Or he could name a more mainstream conservative choice, which Democrats might be willing to support.

If he named a more ideological conservative, then he'd have a big fight on his hands, with Democrats putting up resistance. If he named a more moderate, mainstream choice, then there might be some resistance on the part of his conservative base.

Plus, here's another thing, he name a white man, John Roberts, so now he's under pressure to name either a woman, or a Hispanic or minority candidate for his next choice.

KAGAN: Yes, stiff resistance, Bill, but really, I mean, the president, at the end the day, won the election. Part of the job is you get to name who cow want to be on the Supreme Court, and the Democrats can scream, but they don't have the vote to stop it.

SCHNEIDER: They do not have the votes to stop it. They could mount a filibuster if Bush were to name someone they regard as too extreme. That would raise extraordinary circumstances. Look, Bush has said many kind things about his attorney general, Alberto Gonzales, but conservatives have made it known to the White House that they would complain loudly if he named Gonzales. A lot of people think Gonzales is his own personal choice, but that would stir up a whole conservative opposition. That's risky for Bush.

But, look, he can name anyone he wants. The Senate, of course, has a role in this too, but as you indicated, Democrats have only 45 votes in the Senate, so by themselves, they can't stop it.

KAGAN: And also there was a time when the Democrats were saying, well, we want a package deal, we want to know who you're going to nominate for the O'Connor seat before we even vote on John Roberts. It's pretty clear they're not going to get that.

SCHNEIDER: They're not going to get that. And there's even some debate this morning over how long Bush should take to nominate someone to succeed O'Connor. Arlen Specter said O'Connor will stay on the court. Let her stay until June. She said she'd be willing to do that, so we can take our time. But Bill Frist said no. He told the president, you can name someone right away. We'd have that person confirmed by Thanksgiving, and on the court by the end of the year.

So, you know, there's -- the Senate is not looking forward to this next nomination, because she is a swing vote, unlike Rehnquist, and could change the direction of the court. So it's going to be much more contentious, whatever the president decides.

KAGAN: Right, and of course the ultimate thing to watch will be how this court -- ultimately what it morphs into. As we've seen in the past, what you think somebody's going to be when they do get appointed to the Supreme Court, they often turn out to be of a different mindset.

SCHNEIDER: Absolutely right. Clarence Thomas said he'd never thought about the abortion issue, didn't express any views. The minute he got on the court, he said he would be willing to vote to overturn Roe v. Wade. It is very difficult to make any confident prediction, and members of the court change while they're on the court all the time.

KAGAN: There you go. But one thing we can count on, you, Bill Schneider, you're always there for us. Thank you.

SCHNEIDER: Sure.

KAGAN: And thousands of children may be made homeless by Katrina. They are still feeling the effect of the storm. Doctors saying kids are resilient. There's some concerns, though, that some of them could experience post-traumatic stress disorder. After the break, we'll look at one shelter where counselors are working with children.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Relatives of some patients who died in Louisiana nursing homes during Hurricane Katrina are looking for answers. CNN's Drew Griffin talked with the daughters of one woman who died and volunteer who described what happened inside the nursing home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When they left New Orleans, sisters Dianne Lindsey and Valeria Brazil (ph) thought their 74-year-old mother was safe. Dorothy Pichon was a resident at the Lafon Nursing Home, run by the Holy Family Sisters, for three years. And this Catholic family felt their mother was in good hands.

DIANNE LINDSEY, VICTIM'S DAUGHTER: But we felt really safe with her being in Lafon.

GRIFFIN (on camera): You thought that even in all this craziness and you're trying to evacuate your entire family -- and it was a mandatory evacuation -- you felt sure...

LINDSEY: Oh, definitely.

GRIFFIN: ... that Lafon was going to take care of your mother and do...

LINDSEY: The right thing.

GRIFFIN: The right thing?

LINDSEY: Right. Definitely.

GRIFFIN: Is that what happened?

LINDSEY: There's no doubt about that.

No, that's not what happened.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): On Monday night after the storm, Dianne was able to actually call Lafon. And she says a nurse said her mother was alive, the home was fine, they had made it through.

LINDSEY: And she told me that she told my mother that we love her and that we were going to see her after the hurricane. And my mother just looked up and said, "Well, how do they know I'm here?"

GRIFFIN: That was the last communication they had with the staff. A week passed. Then came the news they dreaded. Dorothy Pichon was one of 14 patients who died inside the nursing home. To this day, that is all they know.

LINDSEY: And they couldn't give us any answer. They couldn't give us why they didn't evacuate, why they didn't have an evacuation plan. All she can tell us is that my mother expired. My mother did not expire. There's nothing that she could have told us that made us feel that my mother expired.

GRIFFIN (on camera): And that's where it stands now? You don't have any idea what happened?

LINDSEY: No, not at all.

VALERIA BRAZIL: So there's no closure, no nothing.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): And it is hard to find out exactly what did happen. On the advice of their attorneys and under the threat of a state investigation, the Holy Family Sisters have chosen not to discuss publicly what went on inside Lafon in the days after hurricane Katrina.

But one woman does know. Terry Smith does not want her face shown because she fears she will be hounded by other families. But she was inside Lafon the night of the storm, choosing to stay with her sick father and help instead of evacuating. On the night the hurricane struck, she said the water did rise, it was rainwater. And the staff quickly had to move 90 patients upstairs. TERRY SMITH, LAFON NURSING HOME VOLUNTEER: We started with the water underneath my feet. By the time we finished, it was to my waist. And I'm 5'6."

GRIFFIN: Upstairs and out of the water, the nursing home began to organize a kitchen set up. There was food, water. Once the storm was over, the flood began to recede. On Tuesday, Smith took these pictures, showing a flooded parking lot, a picture of the first floor showing the mess left behind. Smith says she, too, believed they had all made it. But the nightmare was just beginning.

SMITH: The dilemma began that Tuesday night, I would say. Tuesday, it was stifling. I cannot even imagine how hot it is in there. I don't want to imagine. And these frail people began to break down.

GRIFFIN: A frail woman on a feeding tube was the first to go. Then another. In the room where Smith was staying, she says two or three simply faded away.

SMITH: The nurses would come in and check and -- and they...

GRIFFIN (on camera): Move them, leave them, cover them?

SMITH: No, they'd cover them and they'd get body bags. And the men would take them out.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Two days went by and no one came. Then finally, a National Guard truck stopped. Smith learned just how bad things were on the outside. The Guardsmen told her she was on dry land and had food and water, and was told that 90 frail elderly people without air conditioning in unbearable heat were now a low priority.

SMITH: So I guess in the grand scheme of things, maybe we weren't.

GRIFFIN: The 14 who perished are represented by a spray painted number on the wall. Smith says the Holy Family Sisters of Lafon Nursing Home cared for each and every one of them until the very end.

SMITH: But I can sit here and say, and this is the reason for me holding this interview, I can sit here and say definitely that that staff did all that they could humanly do to make those people comfortable. No one on that staff defected.

GRIFFIN (on camera): Nobody left?

SMITH: Nobody left.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Dianne Lindsey and Valeria Brazil have no doubt the nuns did all they could after the storm. The question they have -- why didn't someone do something before the storm?

LINDSEY: And we knew one day that our mother was going to leave us.

BRAZIL: Not like this.

LINDSEY: Not like this. She didn't deserve that. And we are hurting so bad about our mother.

Drew Griffin, CNN, Lafayette, Louisiana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: It's so sad. And they're trying to do things better this time, as Hurricane Rita is bearing down on Texas. The mayor of Galveston, Texas holding a news conference any minute. Live pictures there from the island city. And we will have more from Galveston and with the mayor, Lyda Ann Thomas, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: And now to the emotional aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. The trauma takes a toll on all of those affected, but children may have an especially difficult time.

Our medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen looks at what's being done to help them in our "Daily Dose" of health news.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What Caroline Green has a hard time saying, parrot says easily.

ERIC GREEN (ph), COUNSELOR: Did the Parrot lose his house, too?

CAROLINE GREEN, NEW ORLEANS EVACUEE: Yes.

E. GREEN: What happened to parrot's house?

C. GREEN: He had a hurricane.

E. GREEN: He had a hurricane.

C. GREEN: The hurricane came and blowed down his house.

E. GREEN: Oh.

C. GREEN: And parrot was lonely, didn't have any friends.

COHEN: Caroline tells her story through her puppet. Her New Orleans home is gone. She's in a school where she doesn't know anyone. And when she sleeps, the monsters come.

C. GREEN: The monster got the big teeth. He has the big eyes.

COHEN: It all comes out in the play and art therapy these evacuee kids do with counselor Eric Green. Playing with the puppets brings out just how much 9-year-old Caroline misses her home, which she now says is under water.

C. GREEN: When I first moved to my new house, I was scared, because I thought I wouldn't make no friends.

COHEN: Her family now lives in a church shelter more than 100 miles away from New Orleans in rural St. Landry Parish. Counselors came from Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore to volunteer in the local school system, now home to about 1,000 evacuee children.

Dr. Green asked Caroline to make a scene in the sand, any scene she wants, and she does this.

C. GREEN: Katrina just washed away my whole house. My house just fell down like that. Everything just started falling like this.

COHEN: The plastic toys turned upside down, reflecting her real life, a devastated home, cousins missing, friends missing.

C. GREEN: I think that they got flooded and either that or they must have swim somewhere, but I don't know, because I really do miss them.

COHEN: In another part of the room, 13-year-old Tommy Cumbaa shows a collage of what he misses most, like his cat.

(on camera): Do you think he's alive?

TOMMY CUMBAA, EVACUEE: I think he is. I have my hopes.

COHEN: You loved your cat?

CUMBAA: So much.

COHEN (voice-over): Tommy and his family survived a week in their attic before being rescued.

(on camera): You've been through a lot in the past couple weeks. How do you feel?

CUMBAA: I feel that I'm very grateful. It could have been worse.

COHEN (voice-over): Dr. Green says he worries that these children will have post traumatic stress disorder, but that, in general, these kids are resilient. He watches them work out solutions to their problems on their own.

C. GREEN: You don't have to be scared. You're my best friend.

COHEN: Frog and parrot, in the end, homeless, but not friendless, help deal with the trauma of a life turned upside down.

Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Opelousas, Louisiana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: All right, a treat for you just ahead. A slight break from all the hurricane news. You've heard of this little band called The Beatles. Up next, a big treat. I talked with one of its founders, Paul Mccartney, who stopped by Atlanta yesterday. A revealing interview for you about him and his current tour. Sold out in 20 minutes at most stops in the U.S. That's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: How about this for a makeover? About 40 years after conquering the music world as a Beatle, Paul McCartney said he wanted to challenge himself in putting together his most recent solo album.

(MUSIC)

KAGAN: The singer/songwriter has received mostly positive reviews for those efforts. He's basking in the glowing response to his newly-launched tour. It brought him here to Atlanta last night, and I had a chance to catch up with him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL MCCARTNEY, SINGER/SONGWRITER: So, yes, we're enjoying it

KAGAN: But it's not just any tour. This is a tour that basically sold out every place in a matter of minutes.

MCCARTNEY: I must say, it did, yes. That was really great. I never quite know, you know, how it's going. And I'm not really blase. I don't just expect it to. So we put sort of one or two shows on sale, just to see what the temperature is.

KAGAN: Test the waters out there.

MCCARTNEY: Yes, test the water. And they went very quickly, so -- and the rest, I got a fax from my promoter saying wow, wow, wow, wow! Denver, 15 minutes; Atlanta, 15 minutes. So that was great. So you know you're coming to an up audience.

KAGAN: And so even after all this time, you don't take that for granted. That still gives you a thrill?

MCCARTNEY: Yes. I think it's best not to. You know, because if you do, you can -- you're tempting fate, and you can certainly -- it can sell sluggishly, and you go, oh. No, I don't take anything for granted.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Nor should his fans take anything for granted. His tour now includes some Beatles hits he's never played before in concert.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

KAGAN: We'll have more on my interview with Paul McCartney in the next hour. Talks about George Harrison, one of the songs on the new album inspired by his late friend and fellow Beatle.

I'm Daryn Kagan. CNN LIVE TODAY continues for another hour. We'll get to that just after this quick break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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