Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Today

Election Day 2005; Gunmen Fire on Lawyers for Saddam Hussein Co-Defendants; France Riots

Aired November 08, 2005 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Here's a look at what's happening "Now in the News."
A lawyer representing one of Saddam Hussein's co-defendants was killed today in Iraq. Gunmen opened fire on a car carrying two of the defense attorneys. One was killed, the other wounded. Another lawyer involved in the trial was kidnapped and killed last month.

A small cargo plane crashed into the garden center of Manchester, New Hampshire, in the Wal-Mart there this morning. The pilot was the only one onboard. He was injured, but witnesses say he was able to walk away from the wreckage. There were no reports of any injuries on the ground.

Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito does more meeting and greeting on Capitol Hill today. He has meetings scheduled with five senators. Confirmation hearings for Alito are set to begin in January.

Local officials in France get the go-ahead to impose curfews to cope with the violence raging across that country. Rioting continued for a 12th night. The interior ministry says it was less intense, but the figures tell a different story. Twelve hundred vehicles were set on fire, and police arrested about 300 people.

Good morning, and welcome back to the second hour of CNN LIVE TODAY.

Let's check some of the time around the world.

Just after 8:00 a.m. in Los Angeles, California; just after 5:00 in Paris; and just after 7:00 in Baghdad.

From CNN Center in Atlanta, good morning once again. I'm Daryn Kagan.

First up this hour, Election Day 2005. For Republicans struggling with polls and scandal and indictment, relief that it's an off year. Still some contests could signal Republican strengths or weaknesses ahead of the 2006 midterm.

CNN's Kimberly Osias is in Washington, D.C. She has a preview of the high-interest races on the ballot coast to coast today.

Kim, good morning.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, Daryn.

Well, it is an off-year election indeed, but Virginia and New Jersey voters are already at the polls, two states that are electing governors today and may serve as indicators of national sentiment. It's a tight race between Lieutenant Governor Tim Kaine and Republican nominee Jerry Kilgore for the governor's mansion in Virginia. Both contenders have called in those political heavyweights.

Current governor Democrat Mark Warner using his wide popularity to campaign for Kaine. Before now, the Republican nominee has made a point of distancing himself from President Bush.

But just last night, Mr. Bush, whose approval ratings have reached an all-time low, appeared just off his South American visit to support Kilgore. A bit of a risk here for Kilgore despite the state's support for Bush in last year's presidential election. Big hot-button issues here for the commonwealth, the death penalty and abortion.

Moving further north to New Jersey, another interesting race to watch. Interesting because Jon Corzine and Doug Forrester have taken the gloves off, and it is getting nasty. Both candidates are multimillionaires in their own rights, and they have spent a combined $70 million, that's right, million dollars, to win a job that pays $175,000.

And you couldn't have a political showdown in New Jersey without mixing in some scandal. Remember, it was former governor Jim McGreevey who resigned in disgrace when he came out last year saying he was gay. They've pumped big bucks into what's become a rancorous race played out on the airwaves.

But get this: the most memorable ad came from Forrester, who aired a quote from Corzine's ex-wife saying, "He let his family down. He'll probably let New Jersey down, too" -- Daryn.

KAGAN: The only ones that haven't been let down in New Jersey are the tabloids.

OSIAS: That's right.

KAGAN: Having a field day.

OSIAS: A lot of fodder there.

KAGAN: Good time. Kim, thank you.

OSIAS: That's right.

KAGAN: So voters in seven states get their say on ballot initiatives this Election Day. At the top of the main ballot, question one would repeal a state law that bars discrimination based on sexual orientation. That is expected to fail.

Texas voters will consider nine constitutional amendments. One would define marriage as a union between a man and a woman. That is expected to pass. And in California, a big test for Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. He is pushing four ballot measures. They run the gamut from teachers' tenure to redistricting congressional seats. If those pass, the California initiatives will shift more power to the struggling Republican governor.

So, who would lose in this deal, the Democrats who control the legislature? Perhaps.

Let's talk to our Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider. He is in L.A. this morning.

Good morning.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Daryn.

KAGAN: So it is like being in Hollywood, because you kind of have "The Terminator" verses "Bulworth" shaping up for this.

SCHNEIDER: That's exactly right. This past weekend, and for the last few weeks, Warren Beatty, Senator Bulworth from the movies, has been trailing after Governor Schwarzenegger. He went -- he followed his caravan around southern California this weekend, criticizing his position on these various initiatives. Essentially trying to rally voters, and appearing in a lot of union rallies here to try to mobilize the vote against Schwarzenegger's agenda.

KAGAN: A couple of governors races I want to talk with you. Your other stomping ground, near Washington, D.C., Virginia, interesting governors race there.

SCHNEIDER: Yes, that's right. There are a lot of big names aside from the candidates whose names were on the ballot.

President Bush, as was just reported by Kimberly, appeared at an 11th-hour rally the night before the election to campaign for the Republican. The Republican, Kilgore, is obviously hoping he'll get the Republican vote out without also getting the Democratic vote out.

But also, Mark Warner may run for president in 2008. If his lieutenant governor, the Democrat, Tim Kaine, gets elected to succeed him, that will be a real plus for Mark Warner's presidential aspirations.

KAGAN: Kim already touched on New Jersey. So, let's talk about a mayor's race that would give the New Jersey governor's race a run for its money. San Diego, what's happening there with that mayor's race? Boy, talk about some drama.

SCHNEIDER: Oh, San Diego is a fiscal mess. They've had indictments and scandals and investigations and near bankruptcy.

This would be the fourth mayor in the last year. Four mayors in the past year in San Diego. The first mayor, Dick Murphy, was re-elected then resigned after five months because of the financial pressures. Another mayor was in office for three days and got convicted of taking a bribe from a strip club owner.

Now they have an acting or interim mayor for the time being. And they're going to elected a new mayor. There's a runoff between Donna Frye, who is a surf shop owner and city councilwoman who's the Democratic candidate -- there you see San Diego...

KAGAN: Yes.

SCHNEIDER: ... and Jerry Sanders, who is the Republican candidate. It's a nonpartisan race, but there is a Democratic and a Republican running. Very hot race with a lot of color in that.

KAGAN: So whoever wins will be the fourth mayor of San Diego in the past year?

SCHNEIDER: Fourth mayor in a year, and it's not going to be easy. It's to fill three years of Murphy's unexpired term. And they're going to have to deal with some very tough issues to turn that city's finances around.

Basically, the city council underfunded the pension program for the city, and they find themselves over $1.5 billion in debt.

KAGAN: Ooh, that is a big mess for such a beautiful city.

SCHNEIDER: It is.

KAGAN: OK, senior political analyst. I want you to take the tea leaves and perhaps your ear cupped in front of you, and tell me what you'll be watching for in all of these results across the country today that could give you some indications of what we're going to see in the midterm elections in 2006.

SCHNEIDER: Well, we know that President Bush's ratings are low. The question is, will it have any spillover effect for Republicans around the country?

If the Democrats win New Jersey and Virginia, that's a good sign for Democrats. And it will make Republicans very nervous. And you'll see in the next year they're going to start to back away from President Bush and go their own way, because they're going to begin to say, he may be poison at the polls.

On the other hand, if Republicans win, Forrester in New Jersey and Kilgore in Virginia, then Republicans will be heartened and they'll say, you know, for all of President Bush's problem, these races are local and we still have a good chance of holding on to Congress in the midterms next year.

KAGAN: So, in other words, talk to you tomorrow and then you can tell me what you're going to see?

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

KAGAN: OK. Fair enough. Very good. Enjoy your time in my home town there.

SCHNEIDER: Thank you.

KAGAN: Bill Schneider from Los Angeles.

Thank you.

All right. And we have new video in now. This is from Capitol Hill.

Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, and there you see what's becoming a familiar face. Judge Sam Alito, President Bush's most recent nominee to fill the soon to be vacant seat on the Supreme Court being vacated by Sandra Day O'Connor. Judge Alito making once again rounds around Capitol Hill, getting to meet and greet with some of the senators.

All right. On to Iraq now.

Gunmen opening fire on a car carrying two attorneys for co- defendants of Saddam Hussein. One of the lawyers was killed. This violence raising new questions about whether Hussein's trial can now go on as scheduled.

CNN's Aneesh Raman joins us live from Baghdad with the latest.

Aneesh, hello.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, good morning.

Just under three weeks to go until Saddam Hussein's trial is set to reconvene. And today, the second attack on lawyers working for the defense of Saddam Hussein and his co-defendants.

Coming under attack today, two lawyers, Adil Muhammed Zubaidi and Thamer Hamoud Khuzai. Mr. Zubaidi was a lawyer working for Taha Yassin Ramadan, perhaps the second most recognizable defendant aside from Saddam Hussein himself. Ramadan was the former Iraqi vice president.

Mr. Zubaidi was killed in the attack. He was driving in a car, along with Mr. Khuzai, when three gunmen intercepted the vehicle and opened fire. The other person in the vehicle, Mr. Khuzai, was wounded.

He is a lawyer. And it's unclear exactly for whom, either for Barzan al-Tikriti, Saddam's half brother, or as well for Taha Yassin Ramadan.

Now, as I mentioned, it's the second attack on lawyers working for the defense of Saddam and his seven other co-defendants. A day after the trial opened on October 19, Saadoun Janabi, a lawyer for Alwad Bandar (ph), who's a former chief judge of the revolutionary corps, he was abducted from his office in Baghdad, and within hours was executed.

Now, at that time, Iraq's government said that they are offering special protection for the defense lawyers, that Mr. Janabi had not requested it. Also, reports from Iraqi police that the two lawyers involved in today's attack had no security with them. So it's unclear whether they had requested special protection from the Iraqi government. But clearly, from eyewitnesses, they had no protection with them.

Now, it does, Daryn, of course, raise the question as to what could happen on November 28, when this trial reconvenes. Will the defense petition for a change of venue or will they petition for a further delay -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Well, change of venue, where could you change from? I mean, it's Iraq. I mean, any place -- if people want to find these people, it can be dangerous.

RAMAN: Exactly. They petitioned essentially, and they've mentioned before, if they don't go for a delay, that this environment, the security situation in Iraq right now, is not conducive to this incredibly sensitive trial.

Now, as you mentioned, where else would you take it? And that's why it's not seen as something that's really palpable in terms of what the court would accept. But it's any number of options that the defense might pursue. And it's a reason why there's rampant speculation tonight as to whether or not there will be a further delay in this trial.

KAGAN: Aneesh Raman live from Baghdad.

Aneesh, thank you.

Poverty, racism and rage. A closer look at the reasons behind France's worst riots in almost 40 years.

And piracy on the high seas. Should cruise ship vacationers be worried?

Plus, some disturbing pictures of a controversy that may be as close as your neighborhood school. Are kids getting so rowdy that tasers are the only answer?

We're back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Search crews in Indiana say six people are unaccounted for in a mobile home park ripped apart by a tornado. Crews are draining a pond next to a park where four bodies were found Sunday and another yesterday. But the authorities say the people who are unaccounted for may be with relatives or friends.

Residents of the park will be allowed to return tomorrow to salvage what they can find of their belongings. The twister cut a 35- mile path of destruction from Kentucky to the southern Indiana countryside.

Meanwhile, hurricane recovery goes on in the Gulf Coast. Students finally back in class in the Bay Waveland school district in southern Mississippi. It was the last school district to remain closed on the Mississippi coast since Hurricane Katrina struck more than two months ago. About 40 percent of the students have returned.

Let's check in on weather today. Chad Myers is there.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: We're going to talk more about that pirate attack on the high seas. We're learning more about how the crew aboard a luxury cruise liner fended off the attack. Details just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: The world news now.

After 12 nights of rioting, France's central government is giving local authorities the power to impose curfews. Interior ministry officials say last night's wave of fires appeared less severe, but figures don't bear out that. In a police report, 1,200 vehicles torched and another 300 arrests.

The lawlessness is concentrated in Paris' suburbs, but it has spread practically to all corners of the country. The prime minister says 9,500 police and reserves will be deployed to stop the rioting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOMINIQUE DE VILLEPIN, FRENCH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I think at the moment all French people who are watching this, who are worried, who are shocked, and who aspire to return to normality, return to security, the response by the state is going to be firm and just.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: The Bush administration is urging American travelers to stay away from the riot-hit areas in France. The State Department says visitors should exercise caution during the evening hours, but didn't go so far as to warn Americans against traveling to France.

Police say the rioters are mostly poor teenagers, children of immigrants. They are said to be angry over what they see as second- class citizenship.

CNN's Jim Bittermann take as look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JIM BITTERMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In this tough Parisian suburb, the electrical substation where days of rioting began, two teenagers thinking they were being chased by police ignored warning signs and hid here. They were instantly electrocuted.

Eleven days later, many who demonstrated against the senseless deaths of the teens are now demonstrating against the senseless violence that followed. A school and the community gymnasium have been destroyed by fire, as were hundreds of cars.

Twenty-year-old Antoine Marna doesn't like the police presence everyone here complains about. But he doesn't like the destruction either.

ANTOINE MARNA, CLICHY-SOUS-BOIS RESIDENT (through translator): The gymnasium and school have nothing to do with what's going on. People should not have burned them.

BITTERMANN: The police pretty well know who's causing the destruction. Of the thousand young people they've arrested so far, the vast majority are teenagers. Half of them have been in trouble with police before.

The rationale some give for throwing molotov cocktails and torching cars is that, while they're the sons and daughters of African immigrants, they have been born here and have French nationality. They should have the same opportunities as others, yet the unemployment rate for young people in some of the neighborhoods runs as high as 50 percent.

Numerous governments have tried to change things. And the current one says it will, too.

On French channel TF-1 tonight, the prime minister said he will improve educational programs, give more money to community associations and more power to local mayors.

(on camera): The problem for authorities so far, though, is that none of the traditional methods have worked. Islamic leaders issued a religious decree against the violence, even though now many Muslims say they never should have done it.

Community and educational leaders have been mobilized, even though now many say that those who are doing the rioting are not easily reachable through schools and community associations.

(voice over): Youth leader Mark Nadaud says that nightly rioting is certainly not going to make things better for those who feel excluded from French society.

MARK NADAUD, YOUTH LEADER: We can't reply by violence through violence. We can't do that, you know.

There is a lot of people who want to do something good in this city. You know? And, no, I think it's going to be very hard. BITTERMANN: And so, in the community that touched off rioting that has now spread across the country, there are many who wish it would just stop.

Jim Bittermann, CNN, Clichy-Sous-Bois, France.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Muslims across the globe are watching the situation in France closely.

Let's welcome in our senior Arab affairs editor, Octavia Nasr, who is here.

Who we're so lucky to have you, because you surf the net and have all of these contacts. And you are watching what people are saying around the world about this.

OCTAVIA NASR, CNN SR. ARAB AFFAIRS EDITOR: Right. First of all, they're trying to understand, who are these youths, you know, who are rioting in France? You know, you hear the word "Arab." You hear the word "African." You hear the word "black." Ad you hear the word "Muslim."

Which one is it? Or is it all of them combined?

It seems that if you watch Arab media, if you read Arab media and Muslim media, the combination is what matters. It seems that the story is being told as a racism story. That these kids, it's very unfortunate that we say that they all agree that these are children, most of them teenagers, according to Muslim and Arab media.

And basically, they're disgruntled. They're unhappy, they're not integrated in the society. They are shunned aside, and basically this is the only way to say that they're angry.

KAGAN: Disgruntled unhappy teenagers. Well, there's something that France does not have a monopoly on. That's true around the world.

As you look at Arab media, are you seeing that they're talking about this more as an Islamic issue, as a social issue? And are they trying to take advantage of it to inflame their leadership?

NASR: Well, take Iran, for example. Iran is looking at this as a purely Islamic issue. They're saying these are Muslims, and they're being harassed because they are Muslim.

Now, this is -- we're looking at pictures from Al-Jazeera. Al- Jazeera and Al Arabiya and the mainstream Arab media are looking at this as a social issue.

They're saying these are people who are -- you know, we're describing them as the suburbs. Really we're talking about slums, we're talking about ghettos. We're talking about people who are so isolated in their areas, and this is what you're seeing on Arab media. Muslim media -- like I said, Iran, for example, they're looking at this as purely Islamic. They're saying that -- I think we have a quote that we can show our viewers what is being said.

KAGAN: OK.

NASR: Here's a good one from "Kayhan" in Iran.

KAGAN: Is that a newspaper?

NASR: This is a newspaper. It's a group of newspapers based in Iran, and basically it says, "The ongoing violence should not be seen as an aberration in the French social fabric. Rather, it reflects the social discrimination and deep divisions that exist between the French people and the expatriates."

Another Iranian newspaper goes on to stay that this is -- this is clear in France that there's a huge difference between whites and blacks.

KAGAN: Well, let me ask you this -- France was one of the strongest antiwar countries going into the war into Iraq. Does the country, do the French people catch any kind of break from the Muslim world because they were so against the war, or is this a whole other issue, and thanks for that, but we're starting over?

NASR: You would think that. But, you know, if you know the French culture, and if you know that story very well, for example, there's this immigration expert. He's an Arab, and he writes a lot. He wrote books about what's going on in France, as far as these immigrant communities are concerned.

He said that it's been -- that this problem has been building for decades. And he says that it's going to take decades to resolve.

So it's coming to the forefront now for us. We're watching what's happening now. But many experts, most experts, know that this is something that has been building up, and it's not going to be a quick fix.

You know, it's going to take a while to reintegrate these kids and these populations into society. I mean, from what I'm reading, it seems that some of these people don't even read and write French. I mean, they're so isolated.

And here's the dilemma. This is where you have a problem where these radical Islamists are stepping in to say to these youths, the same youths, they're saying, look, we are the solution, we have the solution for you. Islam is the solution.

Forget secularism, forget France. It's not going to give you anything. We have the solution.

So now you have these experts, and especially immigrant experts, European immigration experts, who are saying, we have to be very careful here. And they say that it is their role to step in and tell these youths that, look, Islam is not necessarily the solution, because that is the wrong Islam that is being taught.

Peace and order and law are the solution. And maybe -- maybe -- just putting this issue in the forefront, maybe they will be getting some kind of liberty and justice for all, like they would like to get.

KAGAN: I know you'll be watching it, because you do follow the Arab and Muslim world, and this is the largest Muslim population in all of western Europe.

Octavia, thank you for your insight.

NASR: Any time.

KAGAN: Appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com