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CNN Live Today

Cheney Defends Iraq War, Prewar Intelligence

Aired November 21, 2005 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take a look at what's happening "Now in the News."
Our top story is we are learning more about the man accused of shooting six people at a shopping mall in Washington State. The man's former girlfriend says he sent disturbing text messages minutes before he allegedly opened fire on Sunday.

Dominick Maldonado is charged with kidnapping and assault. We'll have a live report just ahead.

President Bush is on his way home. He wraps up an eight-day Asian tour this morning with a brief stop in Mongolia. Questions and congressional battles over Iraq consistently dogged his diplomatic mission. We'll have a full report on what the president did and did not accomplish later this hour.

Word today from the nation's largest automaker rattling workers. General Motors Corporation announcing plans to cut 30,000 manufacturing jobs and close nine North American plants by the end of 2008. Ahead, we'll have a live report on reaction from Wall Street and predictions for the U.S. economy.

U.S. and Iraqi government officials are downplaying speculation that terrorist leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed in Iraq over the weekend. A U.S. National Security Council spokesman says any suggestion of al-Zarqawi's death is not credible. The U.S. military is conducting tests to determine if al-Zarqawi was among eight suspected al Qaeda terrorists killed Saturday during a raid in Mosul.

A live report from the Pentagon is just ahead.

And pressure easing at the pump a bit. The Lundberg Survey showing gas prices have fallen more than 18 cents nationwide over the past two weeks. The average price for a gallon of self-serve regular is now $2.24. That's still 28 cents higher than a year ago.

Good morning. Welcome to CNN LIVE TODAY, our second hour.

Let's check some of the time around the world today.

It is just past 7:00 a.m. for those of you in Fairbanks, Alaska; just after 11:00 a.m. in Washington, D.C.; and after 7:00 p.m. in Baghdad.

From CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Daryn Kagan. First up this hour, is the Bush team opening the new week with yet another defense of its Iraq policies. President Bush is aboard Air Force One today and out of public view. But Vice President Dick Cheney is taking the lead this morning. He has a speech this hour before a conservative group in Washington.

You'll see that live here on CNN.

We have coverage with our Washington veterans: Chief Correspondent John King, Bob Franken at the White House. Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider joining me as well. And Barbara Starr at the Pentagon with news today about the most wanted man in Iraq.

We will get to the speech in just a moment. While we do, let's check in with our experts here.

John, I'd like to start with you. And discuss a little bit the role that Vice President Dick Cheney is playing here today.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, his role today, Daryn, is to try to redraw the lines of the Iraq war political debate. It was quite a tumultuous week last week. The president traveling in Asia, dealing with this at every stop, sometimes more than once a day.

In the speech the vice president will give today...

KAGAN: John, hold that thought, because now here now is the vice president.

KING: Here he comes.

KAGAN: I'll get back to you after the speech.

RICHARD B. CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good morning, and thank you all very much.

And thank you, Chris (ph).

It's great to be back at AEI. Both Lynne and I have a long history with the American Enterprise Institute. We value the association and, even more, we value the friendships that have come from our time here. And I want to thank all of you for coming this morning and for your welcome.

My remarks today concern national security, in particular the war on terror and the Iraq front in that war.

Several days ago, I commented briefly on some recent statements that have been made by some members of Congress about Iraq. Within hours of my speech, a report went out on the wires under the headline, quote, "Cheney says War Critics Dishonest, Reprehensible," end quote.

One thing I've learned in the last five years is that when you're vice president you're lucky if your speeches get any attention at all. But I have a quarrel with that headline, and it's important to make this point at the outset.

I do not believe it is wrong to criticize the war on terror or any aspect thereof. Disagreement, argument and debate are the essence of democracy, and none of us should want it any other way.

For my part, I've spent a career in public service, run for office eight times, six statewide offices and twice nationally. I served in the House of Representatives for better than a decade, most of that time as I member of the leadership of the minority party. To me, energetic debate on issues facing our country is more than just a sign of a healthy political system.

CHENEY: It's also something I enjoy. It's one of the reasons I've stayed in the business. And I believe the feeling is probably the same for most of us in public life.

For those of us who don't mind debating, there's plenty to keep us busy these days and it's not likely to change any time soon.

On the question of national security, feelings run especially strong. And there are deeply held differences of opinion on how to best protect the United States and our friends against the dangers of our time.

Recently my friend and former colleague Jack Murtha called for a complete withdrawal of American forces now serving in Iraq, with a drawdown to begin at once.

I disagree with Jack and believe his proposal would not serve the best interest of this nation. But he's a good man, a Marine, a patriot, and he's taking a clear stand in an entirely legitimate discussion.

Nor is there any problem with debating whether the United States and our allies should have liberated Iraq in the first place. Here, as well, the differing views are very passionately and forcefully stated.

But nobody is saying we should not be having this discussion or that you cannot reexamine a decision made by the president and the Congress some years ago.

To the contrary, I believe it is critical that we continue to remind ourselves why this nation took action and why Iraq is the central front in the war on terror and why we have a duty to persevere.

What is not legitimate and what I will again say is dishonest and reprehensible is the suggestion by some U.S. senators that the president of the United States or any member of his administration purposely misled the American people on prewar intelligence.

Some of the most irresponsible comments have come from politicians who actually voted in favor of authorizing the use of force against Saddam Hussein. These are elected officials who had access to the intelligence materials. They are known to have a high opinion of their own analytical capabilities.

(LAUGHTER)

And they were free to reach their own judgments based upon the evidence.

CHENEY: They concluded, as the president and I had concluded, and as the previous administration had concluded, that Saddam Hussein was a threat.

Available intelligence indicated that the dictator of Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, and this judgment was shared by the intelligence agencies of many other nations, according to the bipartisan Silberman-Robb commission.

All of us understood, as well, that for more than a decade, the U.N. Security Council had demanded that Saddam Hussein make a full accounting of his weapons programs.

The burden of proof was entirely on the dictator of Iraq, not on the U.N. or the United States or anyone else. And he repeatedly refused to comply throughout the course of the decade.

Permit me to burden you with a bit more history.

In August of 1998, the U.S. passed a resolution urging President Clinton to take appropriate action to compel Saddam to come into compliance with his obligations to the Security Council. Not a single senator vote no.

Two months later in October of '98, again without a single dissenting vote in the United States Senate, the Congress passed the Iraq Liberation Act. It explicitly adopted as American policy supporting efforts to remove Saddam Hussein's regime from power and promoting an Iraqi democracy in its place.

And just two months after signing the Iraq Liberation Law, President Clinton ordered that Iraq be bombed in an effort to destroy facilities that he believed were connected to Saddam's weapons of mass destruction programs.

By the time Congress voted to authorize force in late 2002, there was broad-based, bipartisan agreement that the time had come to enforce the legitimate demands of the international community. And our thinking was informed by what had happened to our country on the morning of September 11th, 2001.

As the prime target of terrorists who have shown an ability to hit America and who wish to do so in spectacular fashion, we have a responsibility to do everything we can to keep terrible weapons out of the hands of these enemies.

CHENEY: And we must hold to account regimes that could supply those weapons to terrorists in defiance of the civilized world.

As the president has said, terrorists and terror states do not reveal threats with fair notice, in formal declarations. And responding to such enemies only after they have struck first is not self-defense, it is suicide.

In a post-9/11 world, the president and Congress of the United States declined to trust the word of a dictator who had a history of weapons of mass destruction programs, who actually used weapons of mass destruction against innocent civilians in his own country, who tried to assassinate a former president of the United States, who was routinely shooting at allied pilots trying to enforce no-fly zones, who had excluded weapons inspectors, who had defied the demands of the international community, whose regime had been designated an official state sponsor of terror and who had committed mass murder.

Those are the facts.

Although our coalition has not found WMD stockpiles in Iraq, I repeat that we never had the burden of proof; Saddam Hussein did. We operated on the best available intelligence gathered over a period of years and within a totalitarian society ruled by fear and secret police.

We also had the experience of first Gulf War, when the intelligence community had seriously underestimated the extent and progress Saddam had made toward developing nuclear weapons.

Finally, according to the Duelfer report, Saddam Hussein wanted to preserve the capability to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction when sanctions were lifted. And we now know that the sanctions regime had lost its effectiveness and been totally undermined by Saddam Hussein's successful effort to corrupt the oil- for-food program.

The flaws in the intelligence are plain enough in hindsight. But any suggestion that prewar information was distorted, hyped or fabricated by the leader of the nation is utterly false.

Senator John McCain put it best: "It is a lie to say that the president lied to the American people."

American soldiers and Marines serving in Iraq go out every day into some of the most dangerous and unpredictable conditions.

CHENEY: Meanwhile, back in the United States, a few politicians are suggesting these brave Americans were sent into battle for a deliberate falsehood.

This is revisionism of the most corrupt and shameless variety. It has no place anywhere in American politics, much less in the United States Senate.

One might also argue that untruthful charges against the commander in chief have an insidious effect on the war effort itself. I'm unwilling to say that only because I know the character of the United States armed forces, men and women who are fighting the war on terror in Iraq, Afghanistan and many other fronts.

They haven't wavered in the slightest, and their conduct should make all Americans proud. They are absolutely relentless in their duties and they are carrying out their missions with all the skill and the honor we expect of them.

I think of the ones who put on heavy gear and work 12-hour shifts in the desert heat. Every day they are striking the enemy, conducting raids, training Iraqi forces, countering attacks, seizing weapons and capturing killers.

Americans appreciate our fellow citizens who go out on long deployments and endure the hardship of separation from home and family. We care about those who have returned with injuries and who face the long, hard road of recovery. And our nation grieves for the men and women whose lives have ended in freedom's cause.

The people who serve in uniform and their families can be certain that their cause is right and just and necessary, and we will stand behind them with pride and without wavering until the day of victory.

The men and women on duty in this war are serving the highest ideals of this nation: our belief in freedom and justice, equality and the dignity of the individual. And they are serving the vital security interests of the United States.

There is no denying that the work is difficult and there is much yet to do. Yet we can harbor no illusions about the nature of this enemy of the ambitions it seeks to achieve.

In the war on terror we face a loose network of committed fanatics found in many countries, operating under different commanders. Yet the branches of this network share the same basic ideology and the same dark vision for the world.

CHENEY: The terrorists want to end American and Western influence in the Middle East.

Their goal in that region is to gain control of a country so they have a base from which to launch attacks and to wage war against governments that do not meet their demands.

For a time, the terrorists had such a base in Afghanistan under the backward and violent rule of the Taliban. And the terrorists hope to overturn Iraq's democratic government and return that country to the rule of tyrants.

The terrorists believe that by controlling an entire country, they will be able to target and overthrow other governments in the region and to establish a radical Islamic empire that encompasses a region from Spain across North Africa through the Middle East and South Asia all the way to Indonesia.

They have made clear as well their ultimate ambitions: to arm themselves with weapons of mass destruction, to destroy Israel, to intimidate all Western countries and to cause mass death in the United States.

Some have suggested that by liberating Iraq from Saddam Hussein we simply stirred up a hornet's nest. They overlook a fundamental fact: We were not in Iraq on September 11th, 2001, and the terrorists hit us anyway.

The reality is the terrorists were at war with our country long before the liberation of Iraq and long before the attacks of 9/11. And for many years, they were the ones on the offensive. They grew bolder in the belief that if they killed Americans, they could change American policy.

In Beirut in 1983, terrorists killed 241 of our servicemen. Thereafter, the United States withdrew from Beirut.

In Mogadishu in 1993, terrorists killed 19 American soldiers. Thereafter, the U.S. withdrew its forces from Somalia.

Over time the terrorists concluded that they could strike America without paying a price, because they did repeatedly: the bombing at the World Trade Center in 1993, the murders at the Saudi National Guard Training Center in Riyadh in 1995, the Khobar Towers in 1996, the simultaneous bombing of American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 and, of course, the bombing of the USS Cole in 2000.

CHENEY: Believing they could strike us with impunity and that they could change U.S. policy, they attacked us on 9/11 here in the homeland, killing 3,000 people.

Now they're making a stand in Iraq, testing our resolve, trying to intimidate the United States into abandoning our friends and permitting the overthrow of this new Middle Eastern democracy.

Recently, we obtained a message from the number two man in Al Qaeda, Mr. Zawahiri, that he sent to his chief deputy in Iraq, the terrorist Zarqawi. The letter makes clear that Iraq is part of a larger plan of imposing Islamic radicalism across the broader Middle East, making Iraq a terrorist haven and a staging ground for attacks against other nations.

Zawahiri also expresses the view that America can be made to run again.

In light of the commitments our country has made, and given the stated intentions of the enemy, those who advocate a sudden withdraw from Iraq should answer a few simple questions: Would the United States and other free nations be better off or worse off with Zarqawi, bin Laden and Zawahiri in control of Iraq? Would we be safer or less safe with Iraq ruled by men intent on the destruction of our country?

It is a dangerous illusion to suppose that another retreat by the civilized world would satisfy the appetite of the terrorists and get them to leave us alone.

In fact, such a retreat would convince the terrorists that free nations will change our policies, forsake our friends, abandon our interests whenever we are confronted with murder and blackmail.

A precipitous withdrawal from Iraq would be a victory for the terrorists, an invitation to further violence against free nations and a terrible blow to the future security of the United States of America.

So much self-defeating pessimism about Iraq comes at a time of real progress in that country.

Coalition forces are making decisive strikes against terrorist strongholds and more and more they are doing so with the Iraqi forces at their side. There are more than 90 Iraqi army battalions fighting the terrorists along with our forces.

CHENEY: On the political side, every benchmark has been met successfully, starting with the turnover of sovereignty more than a year ago, the national elections last January, the drafting of the constitution and its ratification by voters this last month and, a few weeks from now, the election of a new government under that new constitution.

The political leaders of Iraq are steady and courageous, and the citizens, police and soldiers of that country have proudly stepped forward as active participants and guardians in a new democracy: running for office and speaking out, voting and sacrificing for their country.

Iraqi citizens are doing all of this despite threats from terrorists who offer no political agenda for Iraq's future and wage a campaign of mass slaughter against the Iraqi people themselves, the vast majority of whom are fellow Arabs and fellow Muslims.

Day after day, Iraqis are proving their determination to live in freedom, to chart their own destiny and to defend their own country. And they can know that the United States will keep our commitment to them.

We will continue the work of reconstruction. Our forces will keep going after the terrorists and continue training the Iraqi military so that Iraqis can eventually take the lead in their country's security, and our men and women can come home.

We will succeed in this mission. And when it is concluded, we will be a safer nation.

Wartime conditions are in every case a test of military skill and national resolve, but this is especially true in the war on terror.

Four years ago, President Bush told Congress and the country that the path ahead would be difficult, that we were heading into a long struggle unlike any we have ever known.

All this has come to pass. We have faced and are facing today enemies who hate us, hate our country and hate the liberties for which we stand. They dwell in the shadows, wear no uniform, have no regard for the laws of warfare and feel unconstrained by any standard of morality.

We've never had a fight like this, and the Americans who go into the fight are among the bravest citizens this nation has ever produced.

All who have labored in this cause can be proud of their service for the rest of their lives.

The terrorists lack any capacity to inspire the hearts of good men and women, and their only chance for victory is for us to walk away from the fight.

They have contempt for our values, they doubt our strength and they believe that America will lose its nerve and let down our guard. But this nation's made a decision: We will not retreat in the face of brutality and we will never live at the mercy of tyrants or terrorists.

CHENEY: None of us could know every turn that lies ahead for America in the fight against terror. And because we are Americans, we are going to keep discussing the conduct and the progress of this war and having debates about strategy.

Yet the direction of events is plain to see, and this period of struggle and testing should also be seen as a time of promise.

The United States of America is a good country, a decent country, and we are making the world a better place by defending the innocent, confronting the violent and bringing freedom to the oppressed.

We understand the continuing dangers to civilization. And we have the resources, the strength and the moral courage to overcome those dangers and lay the foundations for a better world.

Thank you very much.

(APPLAUSE)

KAGAN: We have been listening to Vice President Dick Cheney as he speaks before the American Enterprise Institute, talking about the war on terror and the war in Iraq, and also addressing the critics of the Bush administration. Mr. Cheney saying basically that a withdrawal from Iraq at this point would be a victory for the terrorists and a blow for U.S. security.

And before he got to at that point, he did address the idea of critics and congressional critics and media critics of what he and the Bush administration have had to say about war. This time, Vice President Cheney saying that debate is good, he believes. Also, praising Congressman John Murtha, the Democratic congressman who had been critical and calling for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops.

Let me welcome back our team here at CNN. We have with us John King and Bill Schneider and Bob Franken.

John, I interrupted you as the vice president was beginning to speak, so let me go back to you.

You were talking about the role of the vice president in this administration right now. And it was also interesting to hear how he started the speech on a much more, shall we say, friendly or a reaching out tone.

KING: Well, it is quite interesting, Daryn. And the point I was trying to make is the vice president's trying to redraw the lines of this debate, and in doing so he addressed the call from Congressman Murtha.

Congressman Murtha critical of the administration's plan, saying bring the troops home within six months. The vice president saying that's fine, that's a legitimate point in any debate. He just thinks his friend -- he made a point of noting Jack Murtha is his friend -- is wrong. But he said that that part of the debate is perfectly legitimate, even in war time, let's have dissent, let's have a debate.

That a bit of a turnaround from the initial White House reaction. But it is noteworthy, because then the vice president quickly pivoted to the fight the White House wants to have.

The president's own trustworthy, credibility numbers have been declining in recent days and weeks, in part because some Democrats are saying that the president deliberately hyped the intelligence, exaggerated the intelligence, misled the American people about the intelligence to go to war. The vice president calling that reprehensible, saying that is a fight he wants to have.

He called that revisionism of the most corrupt kind. So that is a fight the White House wants to have, but they are re-calibrating, if you will.

Initially, they criticized Congressman Murtha quite -- I'm trying to find the right word for it. They compared him to Michael Moore, the liberal filmmaker. Most administration officials now admit that was a mistake.

They will have the fight about prewar intelligence. They don't want to have a fight with a decorated Vietnam veteran. They just want to say they think he's wrong.

KAGAN: Well, and let's bring in Bill Schneider here.

As John was pointing out, the vice president saying that it's dishonest and reprehensible to bring in what they're saying is revisionist history, pointing out that a lot of these same Democrats voted not only to support the war, but to keep it going and the funding as well.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. The Democrats would respond that they didn't have access to all the intelligence that the administration had.

Democrats I think would argue many of them did support the war, including Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq. The vice president was quite right about that. Many of them bought the intelligence.

The Democrats' argument is, we were buying the intelligence, the administration was selling it. And that puts them on, Democrats should argue, a different level of responsibility.

Of course the administration's point of view is, we were buying it, too. The vice president said, very interestingly, that this was flawed intelligence that has been demonstrated. The intelligence was not good. But their argument is, both sides were buying the same intelligence.

That is something that will be debated.

KAGAN: And Bob, let's go to you to talk about just the appearance of Vice President Cheney. This is something that tends to happen in spurts through this administration. Over the last week or so it seems like we have seen a lot of the vice president.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we have. But what was interesting is that there is clearly an effort on the part of the administration to lower the volume, to create more of a moderate temperate kind of point of view. But these are not people who have just fallen off the turnip truck.

They were quite aware last week that the rhetoric that they were using would inflame the debate a little bit. Now there is an effort on both sides to pull it back a little bit without being able to definitely talk about anybody's motives here. It is important to point out that Jack Murtha, Congressman John Murtha, is, to some degree -- the calculation would be he's a sympathetic figure, would not be somebody that the administration would want to fight.

Now, what's going to be interesting is to see what amounts to a Democratic response.

Senator Joseph Biden, who is say significant voice in the Senate when it comes to international relations, is making a speech in New York. And while we don't -- are not able to say what he is going to talk about, we should note that many Democrats are stepping back from the Murtha proposal for an immediate withdrawal, suggesting that it should be something more calibrated. And I suspect we're going to see that that speech is going to follow that pattern at the same time that Democrats continue to argue that the administration did mislead -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Bob Franken, Bill Schneider, John King. Gentlemen, thank you.

We have a lot more news to get to this morning, including reports out of Iraq that one of the most wanted men in the world possibly could have been killed in the military raid over the weekend. We will tell you what the Pentagon is doing to check out those claims after we get back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KAGAN: The area around Baqubah is the center of violence today in Iraq. Iraqi police saying a car bomb killed five people and wounded 11 others when it exploded at a busy market in Kanaan, about 22 miles east of Baqubah. A U.S. military official says that the bomb probably targeted the convoy but insurgents mistimed the explosion.

Earlier today, police in Baqubah say that as many as four Iraqis, including two children, died when a U.S. patrol open fired on the vehicle driving near a military base. The U.S. military confirms that shooting, but it says three people were killed and one was injured. The shooting is under investigation.

The U.S. military is conducting tests to determine if terrorist leader Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi was among several suspected Al Qaeda terrorists killed Saturday during a raid in Mosul. However, a White House official says that is highly unlikely, the idea that Al Zarqawi is dead.

Iraqi security officials deny that outright.

Arab media were the ones generating that buzz that Al Zarqawi might be among the dead in the Mosul safehouse.

Let's bring in Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr with more on the story.

Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Daryn.

Well, it's all very tantalizing right now. Lots of questions and no answers just yet. But sources are confirming that the United States and Iraqis are testing a DNA sample and a fingerprint off one of the corpses a result of that shootout Saturday at a house in Mosul. A number of insurgents were killed.

When U.S. and Iraqi forces approached this house, they believed that there were insurgents meeting there. A shootout erupted. At least two U.S. troops tragically were killed in that, others were wound. Then the house exploded. Now no one is really clear whether it exploded because of shooting going on, or the insurgents inside detonated something, and that led to some of the rumors that maybe Zarqawi was there, that he detonated explosives rather than risk being take alive.

So all of this very much rumor central throughout the weekend. But the White House spokesmen, other spokesmen, saying that it was not credible, that it was likely Zarqawi was amongst the dead. We now know one of the reasons they are saying is there has separately been an intelligence assessment that Zarqawi wasn't in Mosul in the timeframe over the weekend, an assessment, not a fact, but an assessment that might be somewhere else in Iraq, and that apparently is leading official spokesmen to say they don't believe he was in this house in Mosul. No telling when that DNA and fingerprint testing will be completed. Not clear why they decided to take those samples from one of the corpses and test it. That perhaps the most tantalizing unanswered question so far -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Barbara, let's get back the topic that we were listening to with the vice president, this debate going back and forth between the White House and members of Congress about immediate exit strategy from Iraq. Senate. What are you hearing about that from the Pentagon?

STARR: Well, you know, military commanders are watching all of this political to and fro very, very carefully. They are very aware here in the Pentagon, all the way to the main front lines in Iraq about the debate going on.

What they are most interested in at the moment is the actually military strategy that they are being asked to execute. And what they are saying is that they are going to stick with the strategy of a withdrawal that will be based on the conditions in Iraq, and that makes it very tough for anybody to really estimate when a troop withdrawal might take place.

It will, in fact, depend on Iraqi security forces, the political situation in Iraq, and the state of the insurgency. But top commanders have now drafted plans, if you will, very, very tentative plans that could lead to some phased withdraws in 2006, next year, after these upcoming December elections, but all of it based on the conditions inside the country. There is overwhelmingly an assessment that if there was to be an immediate withdrawal from Iraq, the country really would degenerate into even more violence, that the current Iraqi government, the current Iraqi security forces, just are not ready to handle things on their own.

So at this point, military commanders sticking with the strategy, of course, that the Bush administration has laid out, and saying that they genuinely believe it is the best way to go -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Barbara Starr live at the Pentagon. Barbara, thank you.

Let's go live to Iraq now and more on the story that Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi possibly could have been attacked and killed in a military raid over the weekend, and that's what Arab media is reporting.

Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson standing by from Baghdad with the latest on that.

Nic, hello.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn.

Well, I think Barbara's really set the mood here perfectly, very tantalizing that somebody has decided to test one of people found in that house in Mosul after that big shootout on Saturday. The guidance that we're getting here is that there is that testing going on, and the guidance leads us to not discount it at the moment. We have heard from a couple of Iraqi officials who say that they have talked with senior U.S. and Iraqi military figures in Mosul. The governor and the deputy governor of Minneva (ph) province, which is where Mosul is. Both say they've had these conversations today, and they both say that they don't believe that Zarqawi is among the dead. But again, when one analyzes why should DNA testing be done? There were at least three explosions in the house-to-house collapse. Some of the insurgents inside, there were eight of them. One of them was a woman, who apparently had "martyr" written on her chest. They were perhaps -- some of her chest. Some of them were unidentifiable, and therefore, because of these explosions, they might have needed testing.

And from one very well-placed source I talked to recently, he said his knowledge was, that Zarqawi now has recently taken to wearing an explosive belt, if you will, an indication that he doesn't want to be captured, and that if need be, then he will detonate it. Of course that is information from one source, a well-placed source.

But in these issues, there's a lot of information, a lot of misinformation that moves around, so it's very, very difficult to pin down. But certainly the very fact that somebody in that house is being tested is a big clue on at least to how important they believe the insurgents in that building were -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Nic Robertson, live from Baghdad. Thank you.

We focus back here on the U.S. Bad news for thousands of autoworkers across the country. One of America's auto giants steers for profitability, but at a drastic costs. How might GM's decision impact the U.S. economy? Find out ahead on CNN LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Let's talk business news and jobs. It is hard times at General Motors. The world's biggest automaker announcing plant closings and job cuts this morning.

Senior correspondent Allan Chernoff is following the story out of New York City.

Allan, hello.

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SR. CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

Why is it that General Motors was selling cars and trucks at a discount to everybody in the country this past summer. Well, of course the company had too many vehicles. So now GM is planning to cut its capacity and cut it quite dramatically. The cuts will begin in Oklahoma City. Early next year, the company is going to stop production at a factory that produces sports-utility vehicles. It will then move on to Lansing, Michigan, and extend all throughout the country. This going to happen next year, 2007 and 2008.

Now, the factories won't be officially closed until 2007 because of a provision in the contract with the United Autoworkers. But production is going to be shut down. And the bottom line is that 30,000 jobs are going to be cut, capacity reduced by one million vehicles. And this is part of a plan at G.M. to reduce costs by $7 billion. The company's chief executive says that it's going to be quite painful for the company.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD WAGONER, CEO, GENERAL MOTORS: I regret the impact that today's actions will have on our employees and their families and communities. We will work our hardest to mitigate that impact. To that end, given the demographics of our workforce, we plan to achieve much of this reduction via attrition and early retirement programs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHERNOFF: G.M. has lost $3.8 billion so far this year and the CEO is not saying when, if any time in the near future, he can foresee G.M. returning to profitability. Daryn, very tough competition.

KAGAN: Yes, is there talk out there of bankruptcy in G.M.?

CHERNOFF: Indeed, there has been. And that's one reason that G.M. had to make this announcement. I mean, when people are questioning the chief executive about possibility that G.M. could fall into bankruptcy. G.M. has to tell Wall Street, has to tell its investigators that it is getting its financial act together.

This is absolutely critical for G.M., not only for the stock -- which fell to a 14-year low last week, but also for it's ability to borrow. Because if people are worried about G.M. possibly going through bankruptcy, the company would have to pay far higher interest rates in order to borrow money. And that is critical for a company the size of G.M.

KAGAN: Allan Chernoff, live from New York City. Allan, thank you.

Now to Washington state, where the suspect in the mall shooting rampage apparently sent text message warnings and made a call to an ex-girlfriend as the drama was unfolding. Six people were wounded in the shooting yesterday in Tacoma, Washington. One of them is in critical condition.

CNN's Kareen Wynter joins us. She is live from Tacoma with the latest. Kareen, hello.

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, good morning. Dominick Maldonado will appear in court later today in just about five hours from now for a bail hearing. It's unclear whether or not at that time the 20-year-old will be arraigned.

We have yet to hear from the suspect himself, but so far some of the insight that we've been receiving in this case has been chilling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) WYNTER (voice-over): Clues into Sunday's random shooting spree at a Tacoma mall could lie in this text message the accused gunman, Dominick Maldonado, allegedly sent to an ex-girlfriend minutes before the attack. It reads: "Today is the day that the world will know my anger. Today the world will feel my pain. Today is the day I will be heard."

TIFFANY ROBISON, SUSPECT'S EX-GIRLFRIEND: I texted back, "What are you doing? What are you doing?" And he didn't respond.

WYNTER: Tiffany Robison says she never imagined what would happen next.

An armed gunman taking aim at shoppers inside the Tacoma mall. The sound of gunfire interrupting a business Sunday afternoon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At first, somebody thought it was firecrackers. I said, "No, those are gunshots, .38 -- it sounded like a .38 and a .9 millimeter."

WYNTER: Police say it was a semiautomatic rifle. Shoppers and employees tried to run for cover. Some had no time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He walked past. He turned around, shot, kept walking. They run the salmon shop right next to us, shot at that, kept walking.

WYNTER: This witness and medical assistant described some of the injuries.

JENNIFER JOHNSON, WITNESS: Shot in the stomach, abdomen, exit wound, and then shot in the elbow.

WYNTER: After shooting at least six people, officials say the gunman barricaded himself inside a music store, holding three employees hostage. The standoff lasted three hours and ended with the suspect surrendering to police and leaving the unanswered question, why?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WYNTER: And some witnesses saying in all of this, it's incredible that more people were not injured. Daryn, we're still keeping an eye on that person, that victim, who's still in critical condition, who sustained multiple gunshot wounds. We've learned that that person also was in surgery, is not conscious and remains on a ventilator -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Kareen Wynter, live from Tacoma, Washington. Thank you for the latest from there.

No doubt, you're probably getting ready to hit the road and travel for the holidays. Mother nature might have a little obstacle in store for you. We'll have Bonnie Schneider along with that.

Also, have you heard about new Georgia aquarium? They're calling it, some people, the biggest and the best. It's right across the street from us here at CNN. Stay where you are. We're going to take you inside and underwater, just ahead.

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KAGAN: There is a feeding frenzy going on here in Atlanta. It's the Georgia aquarium, said to be the world's largest. It's opening its doors to the public on Wednesday. Fredricka Whitfield has more on the big fish in a really big pond.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Making a huge splash in their Atlanta debut, marine life from around the world, a dream four years in the making.

BERNIE MARCUS, HOME DEPOT CO-FOUNDER: I've got to have this.

WHITFIELD: The brain child and primary financial backer, Bernie Marcus.

MARCUS: I wanted to do something.

WHITFIELD: At 76, the cofounder of the Georgia-based home improvement chain Home Depot said it's not just something he wanted to do but had to do.

MARCUS: I owed something. I look at what I have today, and I would never have had it without these people that did it for me.

WHITFIELD: He made millions selling hammers and saws at his Home Depot stores.

MARCUS: Stock was going up.

WHITFIELD: And because Marcus doesn't do anything on a small scale, he figured this time, why not small and really big scales! With more than $200 million of his own money, he helped bring hammerheads and saw fish to the mother of all fish tanks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gracie, up.

WHITFIELD: Among the creatures warming up to their new state-of- the-art home, five beluga whales, two of them rescued from a noisy amusement park in Mexico City.

Also a pair of Taiwanese whale sharks, now 18 feet long, but they could grow to more than 50 feet.

None of this came easily. The whale sharks had to be transported from Taiwan in special life support tanks on board a UPS 747. And Marcus himself made waves by arguing that Atlanta's downtown business district and the expected tourist draw to his aquarium would be hurt by existing panhandling. He wanted the city to ban it. Three months before opening day, Marcus got his way, despite public outrage.

And, now, with the major hurdles behind him, this week is show time.

MARCUS: It's not like a regular aquarium. We took it three steps further. It's theater. The lighting, the music, the ambiance is so different than any aquarium we've been in.

WHITFIELD: The star attraction, a six million gallon tank the size of a football field, 30 feet deep.

MARCUS: I was brought up this way. My mother brought me up to share with people.

WHITFIELD: Bernie Marcus, a billionaire businessman accustomed to big returns, is hoping this latest venture yields great reviews.

MARCUS: But they all say one word, "Wow." And that's what I want to hear. And that will be the payback, as far as I'm concerned.

Fredricka Whitfield, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: I am just dying to go across the street and check that out.

I want to tell you this, too, that if one of the prize possessions gets sick or needs emergency care, there is a fully staffed E.R. to handle all that. With the help of the University of Georgia, the aquarium is also the largest veterinary teaching projects of its kind. And the man who made it all happen, Bernie Marcus -- you just saw him in Fred's piece -- will be a guest Wednesday on CNN's AMERICAN MORNING.

We're going to check in on your travel weather, also business news is travel just ahead. Stay with us.

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KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan, international news up next. Stay tuned for "YOUR WORLD TODAY." Michael Holmes along today, along with Zain Verjee. They'll be with you after a quick break.

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