Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Today

Criminal Indictment Announced Against Jose Padilla; Troubled Teens

Aired November 22, 2005 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Taking a look at what's happening "Now in the News."
Insurgents in Iraq disrupted a hand-over ceremony in Tikrit with mortar fire. The incident happened as American forces were handing over a forward-operating base to the Iraqi government. A U.S. military spokesman says the mortar exploded near a group of U.S. and Iraqi officials. No one was injured.

Here in Atlanta, firefighters have rescued a man caught in a storm drain. Right now there's no word on the man's condition or how he got trapped in that drain in the first place. Earlier, crews lowered a ventilation pipe into the drain to help him breathe.

For game fanatics, it's worth the wait. Braving rain and cold in parts of the country, Xbox 360 fans lined up overnight to wait for the video console to go on sale. Stores started selling the new Microsoft game at midnight.

Good morning. Welcome to CNN LIVE TODAY.

Checking the time around the world, just after 8:00 a.m. for those of you waking up in Los Angeles; just after 11:00 a.m. here in Atlanta, Georgia; and just after 7:00 p.m. in Baghdad.

From CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Daryn Kagan.

We expect to see the U.S. attorney general live at any moment. Government officials telling CNN the U.S. is set to announce a criminal indictment against Jose Padilla. Until now, the American citizen has been held without charge as an enemy combatant for more than three years.

Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena joins me this morning in our Washington bureau.

Kelli, why the change?

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, we'll hear. We'll hear from the attorney general about what he has to say, though a lot of legal experts expect that the Bush administration was trying to avoid a Supreme Court showdown.

You may remember in October Padilla's lawyers went and brought a case before the Supreme Court, saying, look, you know, you cannot hold somebody indefinitely, especially a U.S. citizen, and was hoping that Supreme Court would decide to hear that case. Most legal experts expected that the Supreme Court would and that the Bush administration would then have to deal with whatever that decision was. But that, of course, is conjecture.

Here they go. Let's hear from him, Daryn.

ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL: ... out of the criminal division; U.S. attorney Alexander Acosta out of the Southern District of Florida; and deputy of the FBI, John Pistole.

(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)

GONZALES: We intend to oppose a grant of...

KAGAN: We have been listening in to U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales talking about Jose Padilla.

First, on the pronunciation of the man's name, Mr. Gonzales keeps saying Padilla. Every time there's a story about him, his attorneys call CNN and say his clients like to be pronounced Padilla. So that's what we're going with, Jose Padilla.

He will face an 11-count indictment, a criminal indictment. This is after many years as being listed as an enemy combatant and being held in a brig in South Carolina.

Let's bring in our Justice correspondent, Kelli Arena.

Talk about the change in tactic by the government, the timing and the questions that weren't answered as to why they are making the change from enemy combatant to going to a criminal prosecution here -- Kelli.

ARENA: Right. Well, you notice the attorney general said that he wouldn't speak outside the indictment, although the reporters in that room tried very hard to get him to speak to the issue of timing. As my colleague Terry Friedan, who was at the press conference, pointed out, the attorney general refereed to the Patriot Act and its usefulness in bringing this indictment.

As you know, Daryn, there are several provisions of the Patriot Act that are due to expire at the end of this year. The Justice Department has been pushing hard to get those provisions that sunset re-instituted, and that has hit a logjam in Congress. So I'm sure that some critics will jump on that and say, oh, that had everything to do with the timing.

I do have, Daryn, a statement from Padilla's lawyer, Andy Patel, who said that, "The fact that the government filed criminal charges is a vindication not only of Mr. Padilla but of the whole constitutional process."

And you heard the attorney general ask whether or not the Supreme Court case that Padilla brought would go away. According to his lawyers, no. They believe that issue is still alive. They believe that the Supreme Court should offer its final verdict on whether or not people that are being detained can be held indefinitely or whether the government has some sort of time frame within which to work.

So, at least according to Padilla's lawyers, they are going to continue forward with the case. They do not believe that that issue is dead -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Meanwhile, as we were listening into the news conference, a little unclear as you follow Jose Padilla's story exactly, depending on which time, what exactly he's accused of doing. When we first heard of him, it was that he was accused of trying to build and detonate a dirty bomb in the U.S.

ARENA: Right. Right.

KAGAN: But this criminal indictment is not about that.

ARENA: Right, it's not about anything having to do in the United States. It's having to do with providing support to terrorists overseas.

Now, a few months ago we heard from the former deputy attorney general, James Comey. And in that statement when he was laying out all of these accusations against Jose Padilla, he said much of what they knew was because he had been interrogated while in military custody. And he said in black and white -- and I'll read right from his statement -- he said, look, we cannot use -- which I can't find with the millions of papers on my desk here.

Here it is. He says, "Obviously, we can't use any of the statements he's made in military custody, which will make that option" -- that option being charging him -- "challenging."

So legal experts will have to come down on that. But I do believe they just -- they couldn't. They couldn't use that information, because if he had been put through the normal legal process, any lawyer would have told him, keep your mouth shut, don't say anything. And they wouldn't have had that information to use in a court of law.

So there is that problem.

But Daryn, look, they went on the record. The Justice Department went on the record and laid out a plan saying that, you know, he had applied to train and training camps, that he had trained, that not only had he trained in a normal training camp, that he went for specialized explosives training. That he was supposed to be originally part of a plot to blow up apartment buildings and hotels here in the United States. That he then wanted to put off a dirty bomb attack, that al Qaeda leaders said, no, that's too complicated, stick with the apartment building plan.

So we know a lot about this man. Nowhere is that mentioned in this indictment. KAGAN: All right. Kelli Arena live from our Washington, D.C., bureau.

Thank you for that.

ARENA: You're welcome.

KAGAN: We're going to get to the story of the two teenagers. One is being charged with murder. What about the 14-year-old girl? What is the latest on her? Did she go willingly or was she kidnapped?

We'll talk about that just ahead. More information as we come back here on CNN LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: There's some new details emerging today about a headline making double murder in rural Pennsylvania. Prosecutors say that a 14-year-old girl watched her boyfriend shoot her parents nine days ago and then left with him willingly. It's unclear this morning whether the girl can or will be charged with the crime.

Here's more now from CNN's Jason Carroll.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Kara Borden, just 14 years old, allegedly told her 18-year-old boyfriend David Ludwig she wanted to go with him, to drive west, "To get as far away as possible, get married, and start a new life."

That according to a statement Borden gave to police released Monday, and that's why prosecutors plan to drop the kidnapping charge against Ludwig. But he still faces two counts of homicide after allegedly confessing to shooting and killing Borden's mother and father, Cathryn and Michael Borden, after an argument at their home in Lititz, Pennsylvania.

No word yet on whether Kara was involved in the murder.

DAVID SHEAFER, FAMILY FRIEND: She's a child of god, and we've forgiven her. We all make mistakes. And if it comes out that there was a situation there, then so be it. But we still love her and are going to pray for her and do whatever we can for her.

CARROLL: A police affidavit shows Ludwig told them the murder weapon, a Glock model 27 semiautomatic pistol, was under the driver's front seat of the car, in which they drove 600 miles before being caught.

Also in Ludwig's car, police found a rifle, numerous rounds of ammunition, a black hood and a black stocking mask.

Back at the teenager's house, police found a videotape in which they say Ludwig and a friend planned an armed, forcible entry. Ludwig also discusses having an intimate relation with Borden. In another development, a Warwick Township, Pennsylvania, police chaplain confirmed that Ludwig also had run off with a former girlfriend last spring before his relationship with Borden. That situation was resolved by his and the girl's families.

Borden's attorney declined to comment on the case. Ludwig's attorney did not return calls.

On Saturday, two silver hearses carried the bodies of Borden's parents in a funeral procession. Hundreds of people in this small religious community mourned their deaths and tried to understand how this double murder could have happened here.

TINA SHYVER-PLANK, BORDEN FAMILY FRIEND: We're all completely devastated. It's like it just ripped down through the center of our hearts. But we're all like a family there, a big Christian family, and we're pulling together.

CARROLL: Ludwig has not entered a plea to the two homicide charges against him. As for Borden, her attorney says she's devastated and what she's going through would have sent an adult into a tailspin. But he also says she's being well cared for by relatives.

Jason Carroll, CNN, Lititz, Pennsylvania.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Brett Lovelace is a reporter for the "Lancaster Intelligencer Journal" newspaper. He joins me this morning from Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

Brett, thanks for being with us.

BRETT LOVELACE, "INTELLIGENCER JOURNAL" REPORTER: You're welcome, Daryn. How are you?

KAGAN: I'm doing OK.

It appears that the best source of information in this case has been the young man.

LOVELACE: He's been very willing to talk with authorities. Shortly after being taken into custody in Indiana last week ago yesterday, he sat down with Indiana state police and spilled the beans, confessed to the whole thing, even told them which of the guns was the murder weapon and where they could find it in the car.

KAGAN: And apparently that gun not the only weapon he had access to?

LOVELACE: There were 54 weapons, Daryn, taken from his father's home where he lived. He had access to these guns. So, those three that he had with him are part of that collection.

KAGAN: And then I was reading this morning that apparently Ludwig went over to the Bordens' house and talked for some time with Kara Borden's father before the shooting allegedly took place.

LOVELACE: That's correct, Daryn. He was summoned over to their home after being out all night with Kara once she had told her parents she was at a sleepover.

Once they found out that was a lie, they summoned him back to the house. There was about a 45-minute conversation between the Bordens and David Ludwig in the house. And as Mr. Borden was showing David to the door, he turned and shot Mr. Borden in the back of the head and then killed Mrs. Borden.

KAGAN: And, of course, at this time we need to say allegedly, because he hasn't been convicted of anything, even though we are getting these reports of a confession from police.

So he does appear -- David Ludwig does appear to catch a break on the kidnapping charges because it's looking like Kara Borden left with him voluntarily.

LOVELACE: Well, that's correct at this point, Daryn. We just found that out last night in a court filing that was done before 5:00. And that goes back to the premature decision by the prosecutors in this case.

They were a little overzealous initially, and they filed the kidnapping charge based on what they knew at the time. And that would support the Amber Alert.

You have to remember back, this whole thing became kind of a national phenomenon because of the Amber Alert. And they wouldn't have been able to pursue an Amber Alert without a kidnapping charge.

KAGAN: And that might have helped lead to their capture in the end.

LOVELACE: Exactly.

KAGAN: So, David Ludwig, 18 years old, faces -- obviously would be tried as an adult, as a juvenile, if they do file charges. What -- how serious could those charges be for Kara Borden?

LOVELACE: Well, she would be a juvenile. I would at this point speculate that she's not going to be charged. If she's charged, she becomes a defendant and no longer a witness. And she is obviously the key witness in the case.

She knows about what led up to the shootings, what happened that day in the house, what happened during that car ride from Pennsylvania to Indiana. So she's -- she's pretty much the key witness, and to charge her at this point would put a damper on that.

KAGAN: It might be more useful to keep her as a witness, as you were saying.

Brett, Brett Lovelace, thank you...

LOVELACE: You're welcome, Daryn.

KAGAN: ... for the latest from the "Intelligencer Journal" in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

Getting closer to the end of the year. That's when "TIME" magazine announces its "Person of the Year." A couple hints as to who that person or thing or people or group might be coming up in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com