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CNN Live Today

White Out; Border Security; Interview with Ramsey Clark

Aired November 28, 2005 - 11:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the weather out West isn't cooperating with many travelers today. They're trying to get home from their Thanksgiving holiday weekend. Look at the mess in Washington State. More than 30 vehicles piled up on Interstate 5 after a wave of rain and sleet moved through. Nine people went to the hospital with bumps and scrapes. And in Colorado, a blizzard is whipping up whiteout conditions today on the eastern prairie.
WKGN reporter Greg Nieto joins me live now this morning from Aurora, Colorado.

And, Greg, I think you're on the backside of this storm, is that correct?

GREG NIETO, WKGN REPORTER: That is correct. Good morning there, Tony. Welcome to chilly Colorado. We're about 10 miles east of Aurora. I can only show you what's causing some of the problems here this morning. Again, it's i-70, a major thoroughfare, of course, that connects the eastern side of the country to the western side of the country, completely shutdown for 150 miles from our location going east toward the Kansas border. Now you can kind of see some traffic coming westbound. There is a section of the highway that is open to some local folks, but eastbound for 150 miles, basically from the city suburb of Aurora to the Kansas state line, the highway has been closed for some 16 hours. You see a few cars that are able to travel basically on a frontage road to some nearby towns.

The problem, of course, as you mentioned, blizzard-like conditions for the eastern plains of the state of Colorado has produced not only whiteout conditions, but obviously, as you can imagine, some visibility problems, as well. Thousands of people that were trying to make it home from the long holiday, Thanksgiving weekend, actually had to stop in small towns like Burlington and Limen (ph) and stay in hotels, motels and even a Baptist church. You see some traffic here being diverted. And a little bit further to the right here, you a few cars, a few stragglers, that are trying to wait out the reopening of I-70.

We talked to local Department of Transportation officials here in the state of Colorado, and they say there really is no timeline as to when the highway will reopen. Don let Mother Nature fool you, Tony. This highway is closed because of bad conditions eastbound.

We're live near Denver, Colorado. Back to you in the studio.

HARRIS: Wow. Appreciate it, Greg. Thank you.

NIETO: You're welcome.

HARRIS: President Bush is back at work fresh off a six-day Thanksgiving break at his Texas ranch. Mr. Bush plans a speech on his fight against terrorism Wednesday at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland, amid calls for a draw down in Iraq. A key Republican senator is urging the president to use an FDR-style presentation to update Americans on the war in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: I served in the last year of World War II in the Navy. Franklin D. Roosevelt did just exactly that. In his fireside talk with the people, he did just that. I think it would be to Bush's advantage. It would bring him closer to the people, dispel some of this concern that understandably our people have about the loss of life and limb, the enormous cost of the war to the American public, and we have got to stay firm for the next six months.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: President Bush heads to Arizona this afternoon. He plans to focus on new border-enforcement measures. We get more from CNN's Bob Franken at the White House.

And, Bob, the president doesn't appear to be the kind of guy who would enjoy giving fireside chats.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It does not sound like that would be his preferred way of communication. But he is going to have -- be giving a speech today, more than a chat, about one of the other subjects that's been overshadowed a bit in the public arena, even though in the political world, this is one that really is simmering, and it's simmering, once again, between the president and his political base. Members of his party, in particular conservatives, are the ones who have been advocating for a much tougher immigration policy, particularly as it concerns the border with Mexico. The president has been criticized by some of them, and he's trying to make his case in speeches in Tucson and El Paso that he does have a tough policy when it comes to that.

He's going to be pointing out, we're told, that the administration is pushing new high-tech ways of monitoring the borders, pushing a program, in addition, which would require that those who are captured in the United States as illegals would be returned not just to the border area, but to the interior parts of Mexico, in particular.

However, he's also talking about a guest-worker program, which he says would be a boon for business. It would allow those who come into the U.S. to have a three-year visa as a guest worker. They would then be able to reapply, and would have to, after that period of time, go back and wait a year in the resident country before trying once again. This is the subject of quite a bit of controversy, particularly with the conservative base. And as we found out recently in the case of Harriet Miers, that conservative base in the party can still wield a tremendous amount of influence -- Tony.

HARRIS: That's for sure. Bob Franken. Bob, thank you.

CNN will have live coverage of President Bush's speech. You can catch it this afternoon at 4:45 Eastern Time.

The CIA leak investigation, special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald special prosecutor is signaling that Bush adviser Karl Rove remains on his radar. In its new issue, "Time" says a second reporter for the magazine will testify in the leak case. "Time" correspondent Viveca Novak will discuss her interviews with Rove attorney Robert Luskin. In his discussions with Novak, Luskin apparently criticized or characterized the conversations between Rove and "Time" reporter Matt Cooper. Rove confirms he was a source for Cooper, but denies he gave Cooper the name of CIA covert operative Valerie Plame.

So far, just one official, the vice president's former chief of staff, Lewis Scooter Libby, is charge in the leak case.

And an Amber alert we told you about a few moments ago has been resolved. The police were investigating the kidnapping of a woman and her 5-year-old son in Wheaton, Maryland. Again, we can tell you that case has been resolved. We'll get more information on that and we'll pass that along to you.

And let's talk more now about our top story, Saddam Hussein on trial. Because of the language difference, it may be difficult for many Americans to get a feel for atmosphere in the courtroom.

Our senior editor for Arab affairs can give us her insights. Octavia Nasr, good to see you, lady.

OCTAVIA NASR, CNN SR. EDITOR FOR ARAB AFFAIRS: Thank you, sir.

HARRIS: Well, give us a sense what have we saw this morning, some of the histrionics, the fireworks, some of the fire from Saddam Hussein and who that was intended for.

NASR: Well, first of all, it was intended for everybody. Saddam Hussein knows that he is on international television. He's not just on local TV. He's everywhere. And every time he gets the chance to speak, you know, he takes the floor and he doesn't stop. What happened today is that he had to walk four flights of stairs because they had a power outage at the courthouse, and he didn't like that because he was in shackles. He said he was shackled and he had to walk with foreign guards, as he called it. It was hard for him to carry the Koran. So he gets to court and complains to the judge.

Now according to Arab media, that is very interesting for two reasons. One, Saddam Hussein totally admitted that this is a legitimate court and this is a legitimate judge. He called him "your honor" today, and he complained to him, and he told him that he has to do something about this.

The interesting thing, Tony, is the judge told him, OK, we're going to deal with that, we'll tell the guards to treat you better this time. He said, no, you don't tell them, you order them. You're the boss. You tell them. And that was an interesting moment for not just Arab media, but everybody.

But you're right, sometimes in the translation you lose that electricity in the language. And basically he was very much alive. He was very much defiant. He was trying to still have some kind of control over the judge this time, telling him, you're an Iraqi, it's your court, they're invaders, they're occupiers, you know, take charge. Interesting day again for Saddam Hussein.

HARRIS: Yes, I have to ask you, the scene inside the courtroom, I've heard some accounts that he walks into the courtroom and he is still very much a mesmerizing figure, and that there was a lot of tension in the courtroom and that some of the judges were actually crowing their necks, straining to get a look at him. He still seems to hold a lot of power with folks by his sheer presence.

NASR: Right. People are so curious, you know, about this man. You know, this is the man who ran his country with an iron fist. He ordered executions. He didn't need anything but his words for people to lose heads, and limbs and be deported and so forth. So to see him in a court of law, coming in as a defendant is just something unheard of.

So, yes, you're right. I mean, many people also on the television screens, they're looking at it with a lot of curiosity.

HARRIS: Is this must-see television in the Arab world?

NASR: It is and it is not.

You know, people I talk to today in the media business, you know, executives, they said the coverage didn't -- you know, was not as mesmerizing as it was before, and I was wondering why. And they said they're bored, basically, bored with the business of there is a trial, then the trial is postponed.

HARRIS: Interesting.

NASR: And they don't like that, you know. And that is transferred to the street as well, because people are kind of bored. They're thinking they're seeing the same thing all over again.

Again, remember, we only saw Saddam Hussein in court twice.

HARRIS: That's right.

NASR: So basically they feel that this is going to drag on and they would really like to see a trial, you know, a whole week of trial. They'd like to see witnesses. They think it's a bit boring.

HARRIS: Right -- let's get it going.

NASR: And they would like to see some more.

But it is must-see television. People wait for the fire crackers, like you call them.

HARRIS: Octavia Nasr, good to see you. Thank you.

NASR: Thank you.

HARRIS: Hearing that former U.S. attorney general Ramsey Clark has joined Saddam Hussein's defense team, we thought it would be worth a quick refresher on Clark's history.

Here are the facts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS (voice-over): Ramsey Clark served as attorney general under President Lyndon Johnson from 1967 to the end of Johnson's term in 1969.

During his time at the Justice Department, Clark oversaw several milestones in the civil rights movement and the prosecution of the so- called "Boston Five" for helping young men dodge the draft.

Ironically, after his tenure as attorney general, Clark became a key figure in the anti-Vietnam War movement, even going so far as to visit North Vietnam in 1972.

Ramsey Clark has remained a controversial attorney and public figure since that time.

He provided legal counsel to a pastor who was convicted of genocide in Rwanda. During the conflict in Kosovo, he flew to Yugoslavia to express support for Slobodan Milosevic. He later provided legal counsel to the Milosevic defense team and called for an international tribunal to investigate alleged war crimes by NATO.

Ramsey Clark is also a member of the group Vote to Impeach, an organization that is currently campaigning to impeach President Bush.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: Well, still ahead, grownups know a good night's sleep can be hard to come by, but sleepless nights can be a problem for teens, too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of people just think, oh well, you just need to get to bed earlier, but really when your mind is going so fast at night, you can't do anything about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Coming up in "Your Daily Dose," Dr. Sanjay Gupta shares this teenager's story and what some parents are doing about those sleepless nights.

We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Well, we've heard a lot about developing a vaccine for people to help fight bird flu. Now Dutch researchers say their studies show vaccinating chickens against avian flu can block a major outbreak of the disease. They say it would prevent the birds from passing on the virus. Risk of bird flu is low in humans but health officials fear the deadly H5N1 strain could mutate and trigger a flu pandemic.

To get your daily dose of health news online, log on to our Web site. You'll find the latest medical news, a health library, information on diet and fitness. The address is cnn.com/health.

We will have a check of weather just ahead.

But first, coming back to work after a holiday weekend is even tougher for employees of a major drug company.

We'll have that story in a moment.

But right now, let's go to Baghdad now and senior CNN international correspondent Nic Robertson -- Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Tony, we talked earlier about how there were two new people in the courtroom, two international advisers to Saddam Hussein.

One of them is former U.S. attorney general Ramsey Clark.

Mr. Clark's joining me now.

Mr. Clark, what is the purpose of your visit here and why are you in the courtroom?

RAMSEY CLARK, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, I'm a lawyer. And I've followed Iraq for a long time, followed issues of justice.

My most immediate concern is the safety of the defense teams, because they're disconnected. Two lawyers were killed in this one case, executed, which is 20 percent of the lawyers in the case. Others are being threatened all the time. They have no real protection.

The negotiations for protection are made public, which means they're disclosing what the protection would be, and you can't hide then from your own protection.

But it's totally inadequate. So I hope to be able to negotiate and cause the court to intervene to provide -- you've got to have protection not only for the lawyer, you have to have protection for his family.

The chief lawyer has got six kids and a wife out there and they're very vulnerable.

You've got investigators and they're supposed to go around where it's dangerous and find evidence and find witnesses.

You've got witnesses that you'll have to bring in. How can you ask a witness to come in when there's a death threat?

So unless there is protection for the defense, I don't see how the trials can go forward.

ROBERTSON: Is there any indication from what you've seen in your conversations with the judge so far, the chief judge, that he's going to do anything to meet your requests?

CLARK: Well, sadly, we haven't been able to get a real reaction yet.

We raised it today, got no reaction. And we'll have to raise it when we come back.

ROBERTSON: The...

(CROSSTALK)

CLARK: The other thing I'm here for is to do what I can to see that there's a fair trial.

You know, I believe in fair trials always. But if there's ever a time when a fair trial both in fact, an actual fair trial, and in appearance, because appearance is all most people ever get to see, is essential in a case like this. It's essential to historic truth.

I mean, it will warp the truth if it's not an objective proceeding and fair. It's important to public justice because you're dealing with figures from history and public life.

And above all, to me, it's essential that it be fair to peace. There's not going to be peace if there's a perception among segments of the public that this was nothing but war by other means.

ROBERTSON: From what you saw in the court today, was it fair? Is it fair?

CLARK: Well, it's -- it's an extremely difficult case to assure fairness in. Because the passions in the country are at fever pitch. And it will take effort at every turn by the court and everyone participating to be fair and to show that you're being fair to have any chance for a fair trial.

I don't think of a more difficult situation. And I've been in many unpopular cases where there have been high community prejudice against the defendants. But here, it's just -- everybody has been hurt and everybody's angry.

ROBERTSON: Some Iraqis close to the government at the moment, close to the prime minister's office, have expressed anger that you're actually in the court and you're interjecting yourself into this process. What do you say to them? CLARK: Well, I say that's sad. I would think that if they wanted manifestation of fairness, they would want someone coming in that would make it appear that they're not afraid of someone who is working to see that there's a fair trial.

ROBERTSON: What are your plans now? There's a seven-day recess. Will you stay here during this period and wait for the trial to restart? Will you stay through the whole trial now?

CLARK: Well, I can't stay here for a week waiting for this next hearing. So I'll spend three days traveling to go home and get some work done there and to get back. Whether I'll remain throughout the trial -- it's not likely. If it proceeds as it did today, it would be a waste of my time and perhaps even give an appearance of fairness that didn't exist.

Because I couldn't detect today that it would be easy to make a difference in terms of fairness. If I could help get those lawyers protected so they could hang in there and do their job, that would be something. But if the trial is going to be long for me to be here with so many lawyers in the case already, if they remain, it would probably not be cost effective.

ROBERTSON: Why would you say from what you saw today, you don't think you could make a difference?

CLARK: Because the way they run the court is, the lawyers on the defense side have had very little participation. The -- you know, it's one day, so what can you tell? Because they showed a videotape and nothing that was presented by the defense lawyers was really acted on. Nothing happened.

ROBERTSON: Mr. Clark, thank you very much indeed. Mr. Clark, planning, then, to leave before the trial restarts after that adjournment. It's due to restart next Monday -- Tony.

HARRIS: OK. Nic Robertson, our CNN international correspondent, in Baghdad with former U.S. attorney general Ramsey Clark in his first interview since arriving in Baghdad. His chief concern stated clearly there, security and due process in the trial of Saddam Hussein.

A quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And new video just in to CNN. We want to show you a couple of things here. A couple of accidents that are in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area. The pictures coming to us live from WTTG.

And the accident you're looking at right now involves a cement mixer. And when we were a little closer to the shot a bit earlier, there seems to be a van involved in the accident. That van was -- they were trying to clear that on the tow truck at the time.

Here's a picture of the cement truck that is involved in that one accident on the D.C. -- very near the D.C. beltway. I believe that's Route 7, at Tyson's Corner, Virginia. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

And then, we have pictures of another accident. Let me know when we have those. This is -- here it is. Here's a scene right now. A picture of a woman. We believe an elderly woman is inside that vehicle that you see there that has run off the road and is now, as can you see, in a tree. And we understand that the officials are still arriving on the scene to try to extricate her from this situation.

We're going to continue to follow those two stories of two accidents in the Washington, D.C. area.

Another quick break, and we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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