Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Today

Senators Respond to Bush Comments Regarding Patriot Act Revision; Learjet With Landing Gear Problems in St. Louis

Aired December 21, 2005 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush is putting more pressure on Congress to renew parts of the Patriot Act scheduled to expire at the end of the month. Just moments ago, Mr. Bush paid a visit to the National Naval Medical Center. Before leaving for that visit he made some brief comments at the White House, calling the Senate inaction on the measure inexcusable.
Vice President Dick Cheney cut short an overseas trip for this very reason, to cast a tie-breaking vote in the Senate today. It helped Republicans cut nearly $40 billion in spending. Medicare, Medicaid and student loans are among the social programs that are targeted.

The House must vote again to approve the bill, but members have already gone home for the holidays. And that puts a little bit of timing into question.

Now let's go ahead -- we want to hear from some Senate -- well, we'll get to Saddam Hussein in a moment, but first to Capitol Hill. Senator Pat Leahy, Democrat from Vermont, responding to comments earlier from President Bush about pushing for the Patriot Act revision.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: Now, what we have suggested is this brief extension just to give everybody a little bit of time, take a deep breath, let some commonsense come in here, shed some light on what we're doing, and get a better bill.

It's clear that our extension bill would pass overwhelmingly. It would pass overwhelmingly if it's allowed to come to a vote. And as soon as it became apparent that the conference report could not pass and there wouldn't be any change on the votes if we did a re-vote on the -- on cloture, I went to Senator Sununu, offered to join with him in a three-month extension to work out a better bill.

We have bipartisan support of that. I understand we now have 52 cosponsors. And many people -- no? Forty-seven? How many?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fifty-two people signed the letter.

LEAHY: Fifty-two people signed the letter. There's no question in my mind if we had 52 people who have signed the letter saying they're in support of this, there are dozens more, it would pass overwhelmingly.

Remember, every sing the senator, Republican and Democrat, voted in July to amend and extend the existing Patriot Act. It passed out of the Judiciary Committee unanimously. And those of you that know that committee know that we go across the whole spectrum of political thought in the United States Senate.

This was -- this bipartisan solution was cast aside, unfortunately, even though we're making progress in conference report when some in the administration pushed those of us who wanted to amend it, pushed us out of that conference. And now we are where we are.

So we've come together, Republicans and Democrats, to ask for this short-term extension.

This is not a time to make irresponsible statements about what happens to this nation if the Patriot Act were to expire. All of us wanted to secure the nation, just as we came together after 9/11.

Nobody said, wait, this happened in the Bush administration. That wasn't the thing. We said this happened to Americans, and Americans of both parties came together.

We should do the same. Our country would have a lot - our country would have a lot more credibility here and abroad if we did that.

So let's make the extra effort to produce a balanced Patriot Act, a consensus Patriot Act, we balance our security needs with American civil liberties. A balanced consensus bill is what we need.

We are founded as a country on those principles. We can protect our liberties and our securities. Senator Sununu has quoted Benjamin Franklin to that, nobody has said it better. We can balance, we can have both, but we'll do it in a balanced, consensus way.

John, did you want to...

SEN. JOHN SUNUNU (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: Thank you, Pat.

Let me just emphasize a couple of points.

First, the kinds of modifications, the balance that Senator Leahy is talking about are in a few provisions of the Patriot Act, two or three areas of the 16 provisions that are being renewed. They are not issues or concerns that were raised a week ago or a month ago or two months ago. They were first raised in bipartisan legislation in the Senate introduced over a year and a half ago. They are concerns that we have consistently raised time and again.

Second, these modifications don't in any way undermine law enforcement's ability to do their job. Among the most important are giving Americans a meaningful judicial review of the gag order, the restriction on free speech that accompanies a 215 order or a national security letter.

Giving someone an opportunity to challenge a gag order doesn't inhibit law enforcement's to do their job. Being fair and getting rid of a punitive provision that requires you to go to the FBI, tell them if you talk to a lawyer, and name that lawyer, which is nowhere else in law, it doesn't undermine law enforcement's ability to do their job.

So these are pretty straightforward modifications that we're seeking.

Next, there are a number of different ways that we could work through this issue. We have a bill on the Senate calendar that has already passed the Senate unanimously that could be taken up immediately, passed unanimously, again, unless someone has flip- flopped on it, sent to the House. That bill would receive an overwhelming bipartisan majority in the House. That's one path we could take.

Second, we could address the specifics changes that we have discussed here today.

Or third, we could pass an extension. A three-month extension would give ample time to work out the differences that remain.

And that's why Senator Leahy and I, Senator Craig and Senator Schumer have put together a letter. We've gone out, Republicans and Democrats, 52 on the letter now. Just in the last 24 hours, we put this letter together and were able to get 52 signatures saying America is better off having the Patriot Act in place while we work out these differences.

We should pass the extension that makes sense. There's no reason we need to leave here without keeping elements of the Patriot Act in place.

We support these tools, I certainly do. This isn't a question of changing or weakening or undermining the tools. It's just a question of providing a balance where your right to a judicial review or civil liberties are concerned.

Senator Schumer and his staff worked extremely hard in getting together the signature, the text of the letter on extremely short notice. And I will turn it over to him now to speak a little bit more about the substance of the letter.

KAGAN: And at that time, as Senator Chuck Schumer begins to speak, we heard from a Republican and a Democrat, Pat Leahy and John Sununu, talking about how they would like to see an extension given to the Patriot Act, perhaps as long as three months.

Senators at this point, Democratic senators, leading a filibuster to prevent a number of provisions within the Patriot Act to keep them from expiring on December 31.

Meanwhile, we have some breaking news out of St. Louis. Live pictures from our affiliate, KSDK.

A Learjet that took off from just outside of St. Louis apparently having trouble with its landing gear. The landing gear would not -- would not retract. It would not retract. Clearly, that's not the Learjet. That's a commercial jet. Too big to be a Learjet.

Anyhow, it has nine people on board, took off from Spirit Airport in suburban St. Louis. And when they tried to retract the landing gear and they flew by the control tower, apparently it looks like some of the landing gear is stuck sideways.

So that was making an emergency landing, we're hearing, within five to 19 minutes. Again, a commercial jet -- I believe that's a Southwest jet there -- at Lambert Field in St. Louis.

Chad, one thing working in their favor, the weather conditions.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: The weather is in really good shape here, yes. The winds are only out of the -- out of the west at nine miles per hour, so they'll get a good run at that runway with the west wind at only nine miles per hour, just the way you see it right there.

We will probably see this plane fly around for a while. I know they said maybe 10:00 Central Time. They want to get this plane as light as possible.

KAGAN: Yes.

MYERS: Especially if there's something wrong with that nose gear. They don't want it to land with thousands of extra pounds of fuel onboard. They want to burn that fuel off.

We don't know how far this plane was planning on going, but let's say it was trying to do a cross-country trip, or let's say it was going to go a thousand miles. It would be carrying thousands of extra pounds of weight, that when it was really going to land at its destination, that weight would have been gone because it would have burned that fuel off.

So that's what the pilot is doing now, making that plane lighter so that it's no extra stress on that nose gear as it comes down.

KAGAN: Yes. And not just the weight, but, of course, as we've seen with some of these landings, sparks can fly.

MYERS: Absolutely, of course.

KAGAN: And you don't want to extra fuel to the fire, literally, in this case.

We've seen this happen quite a few times in recent months. We saw that JetBlue plane a couple months ago have this exact same problem, where the landing gear wouldn't retract...

MYERS: Right.

KAGAN: ... and its wheels were -- that was flying out of Burbank, back to New York City. That one landed safely, but again, that one flew around I think for like three hours.

MYERS: Right. And so far there has been no delay at Lambert Field. Obviously you can see the commercial jets coming in as scheduled. I've been looking around them to try to find some delays there, and so far, so good.

All the other planes are coming in, so this Learjet is just kind of out of way. I don't think that's it, either. That looks like a -- like a 737.

KAGAN: Yes.

MYERS: And this is just out of the way and flying in a holding pattern, burning off that fuel.

KAGAN: Right. And you know what? We've seen with these recent emergency landings that we've watched so closely that when it gets closer, all this air traffic is cleared out. And they put the emergency vehicle on the runway. And it doesn't look like they're even close.

MYERS: And it does appear now because these planes -- I haven't really had too much information on this -- the helicopters are flying around Lambert Field. There you see another one probably from one of the other TV stations there in town.

They probably do expect this plane to land at Lambert Field, not at the airport that it took off from, for a couple of reasons. Probably the fire-fighting crew here at Lambert Field much larger, and also a longer runway for it to try to slow down on.

KAGAN: Absolutely. Also, we don't know what would be surrounding it.

Some of those smaller private airports in these metropolitan areas are surrounded by more homes and businesses, and not the free open area that they would have at the big airport in the city. Let's also -- Chad, stay with me here, but I want to talk about what we saw happen just yesterday, landing gear problems sent sparks flying from a Midwest Airlines -- Airlines plane.

This was during an emergency landing in Boston. Air traffic controllers reported seeing sparks when the plane took off for Milwaukee last night. The pilot circled the airport for about two hours -- this is what we were talking about...

MYERS: Right.

KAGAN: ... burning off the fuel before landing safely, which brings to mind the important role that the control tower plays...

MYERS: Exactly.

KAGAN: ... in this situation.

You know, with all their gadgets and all their instruments that they use, a big part of their service sometimes is just looking out the window at the top of that tower to see what the bottom of the plane looks like.

MYERS: Yes. And this was a Midwest Air, better known earlier in life as Midwest Express plane, a great, great crew, great flight. People that use this Midwest Express typically out of Milwaukee in the Midwest love these planes, they love the crew, they love how their treated. The wide seats all the way back through most of the planes, not the skinny coach seats that you usually get.

And the plane here coming back down, and you think to yourself, well, why didn't they just fly to Milwaukee instead and burn the fuel off that way?

KAGAN: Good question.

MYERS: Well, because the landing gear was down, and you can't fly around with the landing gear down, can you?

KAGAN: Oh, OK.

MYERS: Yes.

KAGAN: Very good.

Well, you know, there was another part of that story with the JetBlue situation. That shows you where we're kind of advancing in air travel here. Do you remember -- you know, JetBlue has the monitors on the back of all the passenger seats so you can watch television.

MYERS: Yes, right, they were watching -- they were watching that wheel, that nose wheel that was crooked.

KAGAN: And so they could see themselves in an emergency landing situation, which was a little bit unusual. And then I think it was just last month that we saw that Nike corporate plane out of Portland, also, the gulfstream.

MYERS: And you know what? That was -- that was a plane in big trouble, with one landing gear up, one landing gear down. And they fiddled around with that plane long enough that they got the wheels down, they got them all locked, they got all green lights, and they landed without incident.

So that's how typically these incidents go, landing without incident. Although there are many incidents around that we don't even hear about. When we get them on television they become a bigger deal. But we're just getting one after -- I think this must be the fourth in a couple -- three months now.

KAGAN: And more live pictures, making use of all of our affiliates right now. This is KTVI, one of our affiliates in St. Louis, with a couple of emergency vehicles standing by on one of the runways.

MYERS: Yes.

KAGAN: But I would think that they're anticipating big trouble or there would be more than just that.

MYERS: Oh, certainly there will be. They will -- they probably won't foam down the runway. That's just -- you know, that's all a call of where they are.

And let me walk over here to my computer and we'll see what the temperature is there at Lambert Field, because that's going to make a difference on what you can actually do. It's 32, with a relative humidity of about 82 percent. So at 32, that's a frozen runway. You don't want to pour water on a frozen runway, do you?

Now, this could be the plane coming in, Daryn. I can't really -- that was a pretty good zoom-in shot there. It could have been a propeller, though. I was not looking quickly enough. I was still looking at my computer.

Could you tell what that was?

KAGAN: No. You know, I think right now we're just looking -- well, there you go. Well...

MYERS: No, that's a triple prop. That's like a Beech.

KAGAN: All right. That's not a Learjet right there.

MYERS: No.

KAGAN: Let's remind people who are just joining us what we're watching here. St. Louis -- well, here's live pictures. But that's not the plane.

MYERS: No.

KAGAN: Not the plane.

We're turning into the aviation channel here. We'll be showing every plane landing in St. Louis as we stand by and watch this.

MYERS: Right.

KAGAN: What we're waiting for, those of you at home, is a Learjet that we understand has a landing gear problem. It is expected to make an emergency landing at Lambert Airport. That's the big airport in St. Louis.

They were expecting it just after 10:00 a.m. local time. And right now we're at 10:14 local time.

The plane was carrying nine people. It took off this morning from Spirit Airport. That's in a suburb of St. Louis. And the front landing gear, according to the Monarch (ph) Fire Department there, says the front landing gear would not retract, and they flew by and did an aerial check, a visual inspection, and the nose gear appeared to be turned to the left.

Our Kathleen Koch joining us now, helping us cover a number of aviation issues.

Kathleen, what have you been able to learn or contribute?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, pretty much the same information that you've already been reporting. The FAA, though, keeping us very aware of the fact that this kind of thing does happen on a regular basis.

It is -- we seize on to it, and particularly after the JetBlue incident that occurred a couple of months back with -- you know, 140 passengers aboard an Airbus A-320 out in California. And that was very dramatic. But again, that pilot was able to bring that aircraft in safely, though dramatically. I think we all remember the pictures, the sparks flying, the smoke, the flames.

And in this case, again, we're talking about a much smaller aircraft, with only nine passengers aboard. So they don't foresee any serious problems here, any inability of the plane -- the pilot to be able to land this plane safely.

KAGAN: Right. Well, you don't have to be a pilot to think about the challenge that would happen if you're trying to land a plane and the landing gear, the wheels were sideways instead of going straight.

KOCH: Certainly. Certainly. But again, as that pilot did with JetBlue, as long as you put it down on that runway in the middle and -- and, you know, hold on tight, you can -- you can bring it to a very safe stop. So again, that's the sort of thing that we're anticipating.

I don't know. Do we see that aircraft yet, Daryn, in our shot?

KAGAN: No.

KOCH: I don't see it yet.

KAGAN: No. We could be -- I hope you're comfortable, because we could be sitting here for a long time, Kathleen, waiting for this plane. Because, you know, as we were talking about with Chad, this plane had just taken off. We're not sure exactly where it was headed, but it did obviously have a significant amount of fuel on board since it was the beginning of its journey. And it either has to dump that fuel or fly around and burn it off.

KOCH: Right. Now, according to the FAA, it was headed for Moline, Illinois. So...

KAGAN: Not too far.

KOCH: ... not too far. So it should not have had a large quantity of fuel on board. Therefore, it should not take them much time to burn it off. So we ought to be seeing that Learjet very soon, though obviously it will be a much smaller dot on our screen than an Airbus A-320 would.

But this is the sort of thing that pilots -- you know, both the commercial pilots and then these -- these corporate jet pilots are trained to handle. And is that our aircraft there? It looks like that could be it.

KAGAN: Well, take a look at the landing gear, if we could drop that graphic at the bottom.

KOCH: Right. And it does -- does that look like it's sideways? It certainly does, doesn't it, Daryn?

KAGAN: A little bit askew.

KOCH: So we may be getting close here. Now, obviously...

KAGAN: This is the plane, I'm told. This is the plane. It looks like it's coming in.

So, one again, nine people aboard this Learjet, and it looks like that front wheel there is a little bit tilted to the left. They say they had trouble retracting, and apparently that's because the landing gear, the wheels weren't in proper position.

And now it's attempting to make its landing at Lambert Airport in St. Louis.

Hart to tell from the perspective of the camera. Well, it looks like they're close.

KOCH: Right. As long as it's locked into place, they should be fine, even if it's slightly askew.

That's got to be a nerve-wracking moment right now for the people on board that aircraft.

KAGAN: And we have back wheels down. And...

MYERS: Keep that nose in the air as long as possible, Daryn...

KAGAN: Yes.

MYERS: ... trying to keep that up. And there it goes down, it looks like straight -- straight as could be.

KAGAN: Well, I hope someone was rolling tape back at Lear, because that looks like a textbook landing of what to do when you have a challenge there with the landing gear.

So a good ending to the story we've been following for the last few minutes. This Learjet took off from suburban St. Louis, clearly had trouble with the landing gear. They couldn't get it to retract.

When they did a visual inspection, they found that part of the landing gear was turned sideways. And so they burned off fuel and made a picture-perfect landing there at Lambert Airport in St. Louis. Nine people aboard that Learjet.

Thank you.

MYERS: We'll see how -- we'll see how far this plane ends up going, Daryn. Because if the pilot is still concerned about something, he will stop it there and unload passengers. If not, obviously he still has a little forward momentum there. He may drive it all the way up to the gate, realizing that this plane is just absolutely in good shape.

KOCH: And again, you know, we did not see any sparks, we did not see any flames. So this may be something that a mechanic can pretty quickly, readily fix.

They won't -- obviously you see they didn't deploy the fire engines, they didn't bring them right out to the aircraft, though there are a few vehicles there.

MYERS: Still taxiing.

KOCH: No, they do. They have them there just in case. An abundance of caution.

MYERS: Using that -- using that nose wheel there to turn the plane. Everything looks normal.

KAGAN: Right. But it looks like -- like we were saying. And now, as it's taxiing to where it's going, in seems like it's doing fine with that as well.

MYERS: I'm trying to get a number on that tail.

KAGAN: On the tail?

MYERS: We can type that tail number into one of our Web sites here and figure out who that plane is owned by. Sometimes it's...

KAGAN: Did you see the pilot waving? They seem relieved. They should be pleased with themselves this morning. That was a good piece of work right there.

Also what happens, too, when they have problems like this, the pilots are able to get the manufacturer on board -- I mean, on the phone.

MYERS: On the -- yes.

KAGAN: And talk to them and try some tricks or some things that they might be able to do while still in flight. And whether it was that or the training that these pilots have had, if you're one of the nine people on board, you should be pleased with the bit of flying and landing that we just witnessed.

KOCH: And it was, Daryn, you know, very similar to what we saw with that JetBlue aircraft, you know, back in September, where they landed, obviously the rear landing gear first, but kept that nose wheel off the tarmac for as long as possible, slowing the plane as long as possible before he or she put it down. So -- and it worked just fine.

KAGAN: But, you know, with the JetBlue, we saw, of course, a much larger plane. But there was a lot more sparks. That was a lot more dramatic than what we just witnessed, Kathleen.

KOCH: That was obviously, Daryn, you know, a much bigger plane, much heavier. And I think the front landing gear on that A-320, the JetBlue aircraft, was totally askew, whereas this aircraft, you know, it appeared it was just slightly turned. So I don't think nearly as dramatic a problem there.

KAGAN: Kathleen, what's going on with all these landing gear stories? Are we just more aware? Is this common and suddenly we're just picking up on it? Or is there a problem with a lot of landing gear?

KOCH: No, Daryn, it is common. And we are picking up on it more and more.

And as a matter of fact, I can tell you that -- that my contacts at the FAA and other aviation experts around the federal government are saying, you know, you guys are calling us all the time on these little things, they happen every day. So I think they have a sense that we may be simply hearing about it more quickly. You know, information is traveling very fast right now, so I think they'd like us all to just tone it down a little bit.

KAGAN: Perhaps this is becoming the latest version of the freeway chase.

MYERS: Right.

KOCH: Perhaps.

KAGAN: You know, something that we want to watch happen live.

KOCH: And it is dramatic. And certainly if things didn't go well, it could be, you know, a deadly disaster. But as we saw here, as we saw in the JetBlue case, everything has turned out just fine.

KAGAN: Right, which is the kind of ending that we like to see.

Chad, were you able to catch the tail number and get any information on that?

MYERS: I did. I did get it. Obviously the turbo jet, max number of seats in the plane was 12, the maximum gross weight was 20,000 pounds or over there. It is obviously a Learjet, as we've been saying, by Bombardier.

The co-owner is a non-U.S. citizen, so the owner is not on the Web site there. So we won't know -- the plane was built in the year 2000, the latest registration for the plane, the registration date, was 30, August, 2005. So that was probably a quick overhaul for that plane there.

And not an immediate overhaul. You always want to be careful. That first flight after the overhaul or after any type of checkout is always the most crucial for the pilot. And so this plane has obviously been going up and down, many takeoff and landings since then, 30, August, 2005. And just a standard air-worthiness certificate type at that time -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And once again, this is what we watched just a few minutes ago. This was the landing.

If you didn't know there was a problem, you probably wouldn't know, except that they kept the nose up for a little bit longer than you might expect. It looks like the problem was with that front landing gear. And yet, pilots doing a beautiful job bringing this Learjet down at Lambert Airport in St. Louis.

MYERS: And Bombardier very well made. This may have actually been a plane owned by the company, because it does look like that's a possibility there, as it's registered at Bombardier Aerospace out of Richardson, Texas.

KAGAN: You guys hang on with me, Chad and Kathleen.

Mike Postel is a pilot out of Denver, and perhaps can give us a pilot's version of what he just saw -- Mike.

MIKE POSTEL, PILOT: Hi. How are you doing?

KAGAN: I'm doing great. And, you know, not nearly as well as the folks on that Learjet are in St. Louis this morning. It was a beautiful landing, but there did appear to be problems with the landing gear.

Can you give us any insight about what might have taken place on this Learjet?

POSTEL: Yes. There's actually a handle that blows the gear down on this particular aircraft. It's a lever that's to the left of the control pedestal, or actually the throttle, where the throttles are located.

And I assume -- I haven't been able to watch it. I was just kind of hearing about it over the phone. And it sounds like he was trying to burn some gas off.

KAGAN: Right. Well, let me go back -- let me go back before that. So you fly Learjets?

POSTEL: Yes, I've got a little time in some Learjets.

KAGAN: All right. We'll go with that.

You take off on a Learjet, and there's trouble with the emergency -- with the landing gear retracting. What would be your first hunch as to what's gone wrong? POSTEL: The gear goes up into the wells, it locks up in there. It could be an up-lock problem.

It sounds like he had problems getting the gear down. So you're going to get a red indication showing that the -- whatever landing gear didn't go down and lock, whether it be the nose or the mains, that particular gear signal would be red in the cockpit.

And at that point, you actually, you know, troubleshoot a bit, make sure there's -- check the circuit breakers, stuff like that, recycle the gear, try it one more time. And at that point you can -- you can reach for the handle and actually blow -- what they call blow the gear down.

KAGAN: All right. Well, I think, apparently, the problem was with it getting up, because they had just taken off when they realized they had the trouble.

Mike Postel, a pilot with us out of Denver.

I want to bring Kathleen Koch back in.

Kathleen, what's the protocol now in terms of investigating what goes wrong?

KOCH: Well, right now, what they'll do is they will likely report this to the Federal Aviation Administration. I sigh they, the pilot, the company that owns this aircraft, as an incident, and it will be investigated.

It's not the type of thing that you're going to have NTSB go teams coming up to Illinois to check out this incident. But the FAA will look into it, it will be reported in the records of Bombardier aircraft. And they track this sort of thing to make sure that there is no recurring problem.

KAGAN: Yes. And this story seems complete to me.

We were tracking the airplane. It was coming out of suburban St. Louis. Trouble with the emergency landing, getting it to go back up.

And -- but as you saw, once again, they made a safe landing at Lambert Airport in St. Louis. Nine people aboard that Learjet, and taxiing in to get a better look at it.

We're going to take a break. A lot more news happening across the country and around the world. We'll get to some of that after this.

Thank you to Chad and to Kathleen.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Let's show you once again what we watched just a few minutes ago out of Lambert Airport in St. Louis. A thing of flying and landing beauty. This Learjet had taken off not that long ago from suburban St. Louis and had landing gear trouble. The front nose landing gear having -- it was a little bit askew. They drove around for a while, flew around for a while, and a beautiful landing there at Lambert Field.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com