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CNN Live Today

Recess In Moussaoui Trial; Severe Weather In Illinois; Call For Censure; Milosevic Autopsy Point of Contention

Aired March 13, 2006 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: We're following our top story at this hour. Just in to CNN, an angry federal judge has unexpectedly recessed the death penalty trial of confessed al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui to consider whether government violations of her rules against coaching the witnesses should remove the death penalty as an option in this case. All of this came to light over the weekend and a lawyer for the Federal Aviation Administration apparently had coached four government FAA witnesses in violation of the rules set forth by the judge hearing this case. The rule was that no witness should hear trial testimony in advance.
So once again we will certainly monitor the situation to find out what kind of a bearing it ultimately has on this penalty phase of the trial of confessed al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui.

Other stories making news right now.

They're breaking ground on the September 11th memorial at the World Trade Center in New York. The Reflecting Absence Memorial will be built in the footprints of the destroyed twin towers. Some families of the victims oppose the design and are asking a court to halt construction.

The cost of crude is down, but your paying 11 cents more for a gallon of gas than you were just two weeks ago. The Lundberg Survey predicts summer travel and new gasoline formulation will drive prices even higher. Average price now, $2.35 for a gallon of regular.

And good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris at the CNN Center in Atlanta in today for Daryn Kagan.

Let's get to our top story right now.

Much of the eastern United States is bracing for severe weather today and the savagery is as clear as the wreckage strewn across several Midwestern states. At least five states are cleaning up from a pair of tornadoes today. Classes are canceled at the University of Kansas' campus in Lawrence. Sixty percent of the school's buildings are damaged. Hail also pelted much of the state. Southeast Kansas reported hail as big as baseballs.

This morning, in Missouri, officials are assessing damage from last night's storm. At least three twisters are believed to have ripped across Pettis County. One apparent tornado chewed add 20-mile long swath. Randolph County was next in line for the deadly rampage. Officials in Moberly say at least four people were killed when the winds tore apart the three homes there. In all, nine people died in Missouri, one in Indiana.

The scope of physical damage is much the same in Illinois. About a hundred buildings are damaged near Steelville. About half are beyond repair. At one point, storms closed most of the major roads in the state's capital of Springfield. The winds also peeled off the roof of a Wal-Mart. Even though no damage estimates are available right now, the storm appears to be one of the most devastating in the city's history.

Let's get you now to Severe Weather Expert Chad Myers in the CNN Weather Center upstairs.

And, Chad, I know we're looking back here at the moment, but you want to look forward as well.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HARRIS: Let's get back to our top story this morning. Breaking news into CNN and that is of the unexpected recess of the penalty phase -- death penalty phase trial for confessed al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui. CNN's Jeanne Meserve is standing by with the latest developments on this story.

And good morning to you, Jeanne.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Tony.

Another big bump in this trial this morning. The judge has called a recess to consider her next step in this.

What has happened. There was a court order saying that witnesses who were testifying were not allowed to talk to other witnesses. However, this appears to have been violated. Apparently an FAA lawyer who was talking to potential FAA -- that's Federal Aviation Administration witnesses in this trial -- shared with them the opening statements of both the prosecution and the defense. And also the testimony of Michael Anticev, he was the first person to testify in this trial. He's an FBI agent considered an expert on al Qaeda. So they have had a look at those things.

Apparently on Friday, the prosecution became aware of this, informed the judge and the defense counsel and the Fed (ph) today the defense has asked that they drop the possibility of Moussaoui getting the death penalty in this case as a result of that. And the judge has declared a recess.

This is not the first time there has been upheaval in this trial. It just began last week. But on Thursday, there was a motion for a mistrial when apparently the prosecutor, David Novak, asked a question which was considered leading and the judge did not declare a mistrial but warned the government at that point in time they were on thin ice and now this development this morning, we're still waiting to hear what the judge in this case is going to do down at the courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia.

Back to you, Tony. HARRIS: OK. CNN's Jeanne Meserve for us right now.

Let's bring in our Chief Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin out of New York with us this morning.

And, Jeffrey, what are your thoughts on this latest development?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is certainly a shock and potentially a fiasco for the government. What's somewhat unusual about this situation, is that in normal circumstances there's nothing at all improper about government lawyers preparing government witnesses. That's what they do, they go through their testimony, they show them the documents, they prepare them.

Apparently Judge Brinkema here issue a somewhat unusual order not to share certain information with government witnesses, which it appears today may have been violated. And the sanction here could be immediate, which is simply ending this trial and giving Moussaoui life in prison. Now, obviously, Moussaoui is not going anywhere. He has pled guilty. The only issue here is death penalty or life in prison. But judges are very wary of sentencing someone to execution unless the trial is very clean. And this is a serious problem.

HARRIS: Yes. And, Jeffrey, one has to ask, when you go back to Thursday and the problems that the judge was having with the government, and this development today, why is the government having this kind of difficulty with a case that seems to be pretty well laid out, pretty well established? Why do they seem to be making a hash of it?

TOOBIN: And, you might ask, Tony, why haven't they gotten it together since this trial is four years in the making?

HARRIS: Yes.

TOOBIN: I mean this is almost unprecedented, the amount of time between indictment and trial. Four years is an extremely long time.

It's a complicated case. There are many government agencies involved here. One of the problems in this latest development appears to be that the Justice Department prosecutors either didn't share or the FAA lawyers who represented the FAA witnesses didn't follow the rules that the Justice Department lawyers laid down. So you have the problem of the sprawling federal bureaucracy.

I certainly can't explain the problems, but it's certainly a big embarrassment at a minimum and maybe a major, major embarrassment at worst.

HARRIS: Does it give us a window into how difficult it might be down the road even to try these people connected with al Qaeda, these enemy combatants -- a view of how difficult it might be to try them in civilian court?

TOOBIN: I think that raise as very interesting issue because one of the things that has been a big problem in this case, so far hasn't derailed things, is the matter of classified information. Some of the information needed to catch terrorists is among the most classified in the government. Trials require information being made public.

HARRIS: Yes.

TOOBIN: There's a built-in conflict there. Also you have simply the situation of, you know, people all over the world collecting evidence. You can't necessarily bring them in as witnesses. There is evidence in this case from people like Khalid Shaikh Mohammad who is, you know, perhaps the greatest trophy that our government has collected in the war on al Qaeda. He can't really be brought in as a witness. Our government won't allow it. They won't even say where he is. It's an extremely difficult challenge and, you know, we'll see in this case whether the government is up to it.

HARRIS: OK. Our Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin on the developments in the Moussaoui trial just within the hour. Jeffrey, thank you.

It probably won't amount to anything, but something pretty interesting is about to happen on Capitol Hill. A senator is about to introduce a resolution against President Bush. He wants the president censured. Live pictures now. The political ramifications of such an action and a live report is just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And let's get back now to our coverage of severe weather leaving a mark on the central U.S. In Springfield, Illinois, officials are mounting a massive cleanup from the storms that pummeled the state capitol last night and early this morning. CNN's Keith Oppenheim is there and he has the latest for us.

Keith.

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Tony.

Behind me is a really intense example of how the damage from one home after a tornado can spill into another. What you're seeing behind me is the home of the Custer (ph) family. I'm going to walk a little bit here. The reason why is because you're going to see where that roof went. The Custer family, they were inside their bathroom, mom, dad, and grandson and a dog, and around 8:00 last night local time the winds lop off the roof of the house and we're going to go around the neighbors, who are relevant (ph) here, and that roof lands in the backyard of their neighbors, the Hoylands (ph). You can see all the lumber and all the debris basically went across the street.

Now, fortunately, most homes are not like this. But that's the weird thing that you can have with tornado, is that you can have one house extremely damaged and another not. And as we dodge around traffic here, I'm going to just show you what we can see on the other side of the street.

Look at that house. I mean that's basically got some insulation that blew on the front of the home, in front of the door. But other than that, it's fine. And next door you have a house that's obliterated. Weird stuff.

But believe me, Tony, folks around here are pretty upset because they have not only had to deal with damage, but to wake up to a huge mess. Back to you.

HARRIS: Absolutely. OK, Keith, we appreciate it. Keith Oppenheim in Springfield, Illinois, for us this morning. Thanks, Keith.

And for the latest on the storms and whether they're headed our way, your ways, visit our continually updated Web site. That address is cnn.com/weather.

And from spring-like storms in the Midwest, we move to firestorms over the southern plains. According to the Associated Press, wild fires have raced across some 600,000 acres in Texas. That's about the size of Rhode Island. Smoke is being blamed for a chain reaction crash that killed four people on Interstate 40 east of Broom (ph). Three other deaths are reported near Amarillo.

We're going to go to a break right now. But we are also watching developments in the Senate today where Wisconsin Senator Russ Feingold is expected any moment now to introduce a resolution for the censure of the president, of President Bush, over the NSA surveillance program. We're watching developments there at the Senate. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: On "Security Watch," there is a push today in the U.S. Senate to censure President Bush over his domestic wiretapping program. Democratic Senator Russ Feingold of Wisconsin, a potential White House contender, is the author of the resolution. CNN Congressional Correspondent Ed Henry is tracking developments for us on Capitol Hill.

And good morning to you, Ed.

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Tony.

That's right. In fact, they're talking about the budget right now. You saw Republican Senator Judd Gregg there on the Senate floor talking about the budget.

Senator Feingold expected to come to the floor this afternoon to talk about the resolution. And extremely rare move to censure a president. Basically a severe admonishment.

Only happened once before. President Andrew Jackson, back in 1834. That's your first tipoff that this is very unlikely to pass, especially through a Republican Congress.

The second tipoff is the fact that Senator Feingold is a Democratic who has openly talked about running for president in 2008 and talking about this censure has given Republicans an immediate opening to say this is a partisan maneuver. Republican Senator John Warner yesterday charging this is just political grandstanding. Now Feingold was on CNN this morning insisting this is not about politics. He's taking this very seriously. He's a member of both the Judiciary and Intelligence Committee and he wants to censure the president over the NSA domestic surveillance program, which Feingold believes is illegal and he also charges the president misled the public. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RUSS FEINGOLD, (D) WISCONSIN: I think what we've done for three months is, I'm on both the Intelligence Committee and the Judiciary Committee. We've listened and listened and we've not heard any persuasive argument at all that the president had legal authority to do that. Would it be a good thing for the country now to start an impeachment proceeding? I'm not so sure. I think that's something we ought to think about. Do we really want to remove this president from office because of this or do we want to send a clear signal by a censure resolution that what he did was wrong?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: Now what he's referring to there, obviously, remember back in the Clinton years, censure was talked about as a possible remedy to get out of that whole impeachment crisis. It's seen as a lesser punishment, if you will, of a president. But this one seems to be going nowhere fast because, first of all, fellow Democrats to Feingold, people like Carl Levin of Michigan, said yesterday on CNN, he has no plans to sign on to this.

And the bigger, broader political problem for Feingold is that moderate Republican who may have signed on to this a couple of months ago, Republicans like Chuck Hagel, Olympia Snow, who are raising very sharp questions back then about this domestic surveillance program, in recent weeks have really sort of backpedals from that criticism and instead are basically now signing on to the domestic surveillance program with some slight modifications.

Tony.

HARRIS: And, Ed, part of Feingold's frustration, is seems, is that there is no work being done right now on this. Are there any congressional hearings being held on this issue at all?

HENRY: Yes, actually, there are. There is work being done on Capitol Hill. First of all, the Senate Judiciary Committee has, in fact, launched an investigation. They've held at least one hearing, you'll remember, with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales where he was asked some very tough questions.

There are Democrats wondering why there have not been more hearings, you're right, and they are expecting more. And I can tell you the Republican chairman there, Arlen Specter, is one of the few Republicans who has kept on this and has been really keeping the administration's feet to the fire. But I think Feingold, you're right, is concerned and frustrated with the fact that the Senate Intelligence Committee has pulled back from an investigation. Tony.

HARRIS: Yes. CNN Congressional Correspondent Ed Henry for us. Ed, thank you.

HENRY: Thank you.

HARRIS: The Dubai ports deal still echoes in the halls of Congress and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist says the DP World situation bears watching in case the Arab company can't find a buyer. And House Armed Services Chairman Duncan Hunter says he'll continue to push a bill banning all foreign companies from owning American interests considered vital to national security. Under pressure from Congress, DP World has surrendered all rights to operate six major ports in the United States.

Be sure to stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

President Bush is opening up a new campaign to rebuild support for his war policies. In just a few hours, he'll be at George Washington University to deliver the first in a series of speeches on Iraq. Of course, we will have it live for you. The president's remarks right here on CNN. He's expected to begin his speech around 1:15 Eastern Time. Stay with us for complete coverage.

And don't look now or -- well, perhaps you should. Tax day is only about a month away. The goal for everyone comes tax time is not to pay more than you have to. Gerri Willis has some advice to help you do just that.

Gerri, good morning.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Tony, good to see you.

You know, it's all about the tax deductions. On "Five Tips," we're going to show you how to get the tax deduction you deserve.

Tony.

HARRIS: And you recognize Blondie, don't you? The group just one of several big names being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. But we're going to talk to one music critic who is highly critical of the whole Rock and Roll Hall of Fame concept. You'll want to hear his thoughts ahead this hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And let's get a look at the early numbers on Wall Street this morning. In early trading, the Dow is up almost 33 points and the Nasdaq, we can tell you, is up 15.

This week marks the one-month countdown to tax day. And if you're like millions of Americans, you're probably paying more than you owe. Here with her "Top Five Tips" on commonly missed deductions is CNN Personal Finance Editor Gerri Willis from New York. Gerri, good morning.

WILLIS: Hey. Good morning, Tony.

HARRIS: Good to see you.

WILLIS: It's coming. You can't put it off. It's on its way.

HARRIS: As much as I'd like to, you've got to pay the piper. It's true.

WILLIS: Exactly.

HARRIS: Your first tip to all of us is that you have to stay ahead of this game. We hate to think of it in terms of a game, but you need to stay ahead of it.

WILLIS: Well, it changes every year. There's something new and different in terms of deductions each and every year. And as a matter of fact, Americans are losing money. Leaking like a sieve from the wallet because they're not getting the deductions they deserve. According to a recent report from the federal government, 2 million Americans on average overpay by $438. And I don't know about you, Tony, but I can think of lots of uses for almost $500.

HARRIS: I am with you on that. You know, I'm in the market here pretty soon for a new car and I guess I am looking at these hybrid vehicles. And perhaps another incentive is, is that there are a lot of, well, pretty healthy incentives and deductions available if you get one of these cars, huh?

WILLIS: You bet, Tony. And you've got to jump on it now. The federal government is making available tax credits if you buy a hybrid. As much as $3,400. But it's not going to be available forever. In fact, it only goes to the first 60,000 buyers. And there's a range of tax credits, depending on how efficient that car is. So you can get up to $3,400 if you buy one of things, but you'll probably have to get on a wait list to do it. So you can be one of the first people to do it.

HARRIS: We all like the idea of giving to charities, that's for sure. We're generous people. But when it comes to tax time, we can't be fuzzy about who we've give to and the amount of money.

WILLIS: Well, here's the interesting thing from 2005 taxpayers. If you gave away more than half of your income to charity, you'll be able to deduct that if you gave it after August 30th. Now, here's the devil in the details here. The government wanted to encourage people to give money to victims of the hurricane and so it's all about that. It's a special one-time, one-year thing. And, you know, clearly, if you're retired, maybe you don't have a lot of income to begin with . . .

HARRIS: Right.

WILLIS: You may qualify for that. Another thing people should know about, mileage that you can deduct. Also higher if you use your car for business purposes. After September 1st it went to 48.5 cent as gallon. That's not nothing, up from 40.5. If you're using that car for business purposes, not just getting to work but actually going out and doing the work.

HARRIS: Got you. Tip four is, you tell us that it would be smart if we added up our medical costs.

WILLIS: That's right. You know, there's a great deduction for people out there who are spending a ton of dough for medical costs. If you spend more than 7.5 percent of your income, your adjusted gross income, AGI, you can deduct that. And it's not just hospital costs, doctor costs, drug costs, it's anything that a doctor prescribes. So it can be glasses. It can be a pool for therapeutic use if your doctor suggests that. So the devil's in the details here. You need to check it out if you're spending lots and lots of money for this kind of thing.

HARRIS: Gerri, can you claim your parents if you're taking care of them.

WILLIS: Yes. They can be claimed as dependents if you are responsible for your parents care. They don't even have to be living with you, Tony. As a matter, if they're in an institution, but you're responsible for taking care of them, you claim them as dependents. And you even move that advantage to different members of the family every year if all of you are contributing to their care -- Tony.

HARRIS: CNN personal finance director Gerri Willis. Great tips, Gerri.

WILLIS: You're welcome.

HARRIS: Have a great day.

WILLIS: You, too.

HARRIS: And "Now in the News," the judge in the sentencing trial of confessed Al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui calls an abrupt recess. FBI agent Harry Samit was due to face defense attorneys today. CNN has word that government witnesses have been talking to each other. Well, that is against the rules. Details in this late breaking story straight ahead.

In the Midwest, residents and officials are trying to assess the damage from a weekend of devastating weather. At least ten deaths are blamed on a series of storms. Several apparent tornadoes ripped across Missouri and into Illinois. Illinois's state capital Springfield is reeling from what appears to be one of the city's worst storms on record.

Concerns over mad cow disease are rippling from the White House to capitals overseas. The U.S. Department of Agriculture is conducting more tests on a cow at a lab in Ames, Iowa, after an earlier test for the disease came back with inconclusive results. The Bush administration is trying to reassure Japan and other countries that imported U.S. beef -- that there is no cause for real concern right now.

Serbs reacting to the death of their former leader, Slobodan Milosevic, the man accused of leading his nation on a path of genocide. We're live from Belgrade when LIVE TODAY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic continues to be a point of controversy, first in life and now in death. The 64- year-old former leader was found dead Saturday in his cell at the U.N. detention center, just months before a verdict was due in his war crimes trial. A preliminary autopsy shows Milosevic died from a heart attack, but even that has become a point of contention.

CNN's Alessio Vinci is live in Belgrade, the capital of Serbia.

Alessio, good morning to you.

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, Tony.

There will be no state funeral for Slobodan Milosevic, the former Yugoslav strongman. No flags at half mast, no military honors and no special place at Belgrade's new cometary. The Serb authorities here clearly trying to prevent Mr. Milosevic and his untimely death to become a hero and a martyr.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VINCI (voice-over): No one at the popular St. Michael's church in Belgrade was lighting a candle for Milosevic. Their prayers instead were focused on the first day of fasting ahead of Orthodox Easter. Outside though, some were visibly saddened.

It is hard, it is hard for everybody, she says. He was our citizen and our president. This lady shares the suspicions of many here in Serbia who doubt Milosevic died a natural death. All we want to know is the truth she says. The truth is the only thing we're interested in.

There were plenty of candles instead for Milosevic outside the headquarters of his socialist party. Despite the rain, a small group of people waited in line for their turn to share their sorrow. I felt terrible when I heard about the news. I cried a lot, she says. Why are those people at The Hague so against the Serbs?

Newspaper headlines carried much of that feeling, some suggesting the former Yugoslav strongman was murdered, possibly poisoned by his jailers. It's a charge flatly denied by the war crimes tribunal, but one that gives national sympathizers here an opportunity to review the former president's place in history.

BRATISLAV GRUBACIC, POLITICAL ANALYST: The way he died basically means that he's now out of hands of justice. Now he will be in the hands of historical science and probably after this, he will get much better position in the history of Serbia nation than one could believe even two days ago, definitely better than maybe he deserved. VINCI: But a larger crowd gathered to commemorate the third anniversary of Zoran Djindjic's assassination, the pro-western Serb prime minister who extradited Milosevic to The Hague in 2001, only to be killed two years later by a sniper believed to have been hired by gangsters connected to ultra-nationalist forces here.

With Milosevic's sudden death, the pressure has increased on the Serb government to finally deliver war time Bosnian Serb General Ratko Mladic for trial in The Hague.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VINCI: And one of the reasons why the Serb authorities here have not arrested Misamlades (ph) yet is one, first of all is because they say they don't know where he is. And secondly because they fear that should they try to arrest him, he will commit suicide and it will turn him into a hero as well -- Tony.

HARRIS: Hey, Alessio, I have to ask you, will Milosevic's widow now be allowed even to return to Belgrade for the funeral?

VINCI: Well, she would like to come back here for Belgrade with the remains of his husband and his son, Marco Milosevic, who will be picking up the body at The Hague, we understand, tomorrow. The problem is that she cannot come back here because she faces arrest. There is an arrest warrant against her for minor charges and for abuse of power.

And only the president of this country can pardon her. But we already know from him, he's already told us, that he will not waive those charges, that he will not pardon her. The district attorney, and as well as the judges here, will not lift the charges. And so if she come here, she will face arrest. So it really unclear yet what will happen tomorrow once the body comes back here.

HARRIS: CNN's Alessio Vinci for us in Belgrade. Alessio, thank you.

That weather system that packed a serious punch in the Midwest this weekend, now making its way East. What's in store today? Severe weather expert Chad Myers gives us the details. That's straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: We are days away from the official start of spring, but we have a -- well, pretty rare and unusual sight from Auburn, California. Yesterday's storms made for snowfalls in places such as Costerville (ph), Eldorado Hills and Cameron Park. Kids made the most of the occasion, as they do all the time, with snowballs and sledding. And when is a drizzle's worth of big rain big news? Well, when it's the first official precipitation in 143 days. Trust us, come one, it's news. And that was the case over the weekend in Phoenix, Arizona, which witnessed its first official rain since mid-October of last year.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HARRIS: You know the Rock 'N' Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony is tonight in New York. What do you think of this year's list of inductees? We'll take that list up with our guest, who is a pretty vocal critic about the whole Rock 'N' Roll Hall of Fame phenomenon, the building, the nominees, the inductees, all of it. Rock on! And LIVE TODAY does right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Got to love Miles Davis, come on, man.

Just a little taste, just a little sampler there of why the late Miles Davis, or some refer to him as the Picasso of jazz, is among those being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Picasso of jazz, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. OK.

You've got Southern rockers Lynyrd Skynyrd; punk rock and New Wave pioneers, Blondie; the British band Black Sabbath, Ozzie on board, known for walking on the darkest side of heavy metal; and the eyebrow-raising Sex Pistols. All being honored at tonight's Rock and Hall of Fame induction ceremony.

But one man has plenty to say about this year's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees, mainly that some of them shouldn't even be there. He co-edited the anthology "Kill Your Idols."

Joining us by phone is pop music critic and co-host of "Sound Opinions," Jim DeRogatis.

Jim, good to talk to you.

JIM DEROGATIS, MUSIC CRITIC: Yes, Tony, how are you?

HARRIS: Good, good, good. Miles Davis -- I got to pause there. Miles Davis in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Let's start there and we'll work through the list here.

DEROGATIS: Yes, well, that's one of many reasons to pause. You know, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a horribly conservative institution. It's a lot like the Grammys. You know, the stated mission of the Grammys is to honor artistic excellence and innovation.

And the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame presumably is much of the same, except what actually happens is you get honors for commercial achievement, and also honors for this kind of mid-level mainstream respectability. And kind of what the inductors want to see as a command performance at the Waldorf Astoria.

HARRIS: Well, what's more -- yes, yes, exactly. Jim, what's more important? How many records you sold or this mainstream acceptability? What's more important?

DEROGATIS: Well, I think what really rules the Rock and Roll Hall of fame is Baby Boom nostalgia, Tony. It's the music that the Baby Boomers grew up loving and listening to when they were teens, and it really doesn't recognize the influence of the important stuff that came afterwards.

So, you know, you got Miles Davis getting in there before Afrika Bambaataa, who was nominated this year, who was the first really influential great hip hop star. There would no rap at all, which is the predominant form of music in America today, without Bambaataa.

Kraftwerk has been eligible for several years, the German synthesizer band. There have not gotten inducted. There would be no electronic dance music without Kraftwerk.

HARRIS: Got you.

DEROGATIS: You know, you have a generation for whom Kraftwerk is much more important than the Beatles, believe it or not.

HARRIS: Well, I have to ask you, Jim -- generally speaking, what do you think of this list? I know what you feel about Miles Davis and but, you know, we've got Lynyrd Skynyrd on there...

DEROGATIS: Well, you know, Davis is great. But Davis' jazz work is great, and what he's getting in for is kind of a jazz rock fusion, which is mediocre. You know, I think the list is a sham. It has always has been, Tony.

HARRIS: Really?

DEROGATIS: Oh, absolutely. It's a disgrace.

HARRIS: Lynyrd Skynyrd is on that list. Black Sabbath is on that list. Not that I totally disagree with you, but I just, you know...

DEROGATIS: Black Sabbath was eligible for five or six years, and they were overlooked every year. The Stooges, another of the most influential punk bands. You know, the Hall of Fame tends to ignore genres. And there would be no heavy metal without Black Sabbath, and yet they're getting in finally as a late afterthought. And you know, you just don't have them honoring the artists that are actually most influential on today's music.

HARRIS: Hey, I got to ask you. Jim, what do you think about the whole -- you know, I lived in Cleveland for a long time and I was there when this whole proposal was being floated around. And a lot of us asked the same question, why -- we know Alan Freedman (ph) -- why Cleveland for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

DEROGATIS: Well, I think Cleveland campaigned very heavily for it. And there was -- there were a lot of corporate dollars.

HARRIS: Got you.

DEROGATIS: But you'll notice that they never, ever hold the induction ceremony in Cleveland. They hold it at the Waldorf-Astoria. And Jann Wenner, the founder of "Rolling Stone," and Ahmet Ertegun, the founder of Atlantic Records, two of the biggest forces behind the Hall -- you know, there is no way in hell they're going to Cleveland. So they put on the tuxedos and they go to the Waldorf-Astoria and they charge $15,000 or $20,000 a table.

And one of the things that John Lydon, Johnny Rotten of the Pistols, said -- one was there's no way I'm coming -- is that, you know, I'm not going to pay $20,000 so my wife and kids can sit there and watch me be honored. And they have done that to these doo-wop groups who are basically living in poverty when they were inducted. You know, because they never made any money from the record companies. And so they expect these guys to shell out thousands of dollars to bring their kids, which is horrible.

HARRIS: Well, Jim...

DEROGATIS: You're going to go through the horrible spectacle of Lynyrd Skynyrd, you know, big old hairy fat guys in tuxedos, jamming on stage with Paul Shaffer in the band.

HARRIS: OK, I got you. I got you. Jim, I got you. We promised that you were an outspoken critic, and you have delivered this morning. Jim, good to talk to you.

DEROGATIS: (INAUDIBLE), you know, rock n' roll, man, is alive and well, and the spirit of rock n' roll is to thumb your nose at an institution like the Hall of Fame.

HARRIS: All right, Jim, I've got to go. I got to go. I'm long.

(CROSSTALK)

HARRIS: Have a great day, man. Good to talk to you.

From South Korea to the southern U.S., carmakers' big plans come as welcome news for a state that just lost two car plants because of Detroit's down-sizing. We'll be back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MARKET REPORT)

HARRIS: Our own Ben Wedeman gets a job offer as a camel salesman. He says buying a camel is a lot like buying a car. OK. That story still to come.

And later, where's the Whippet? There are reports of recent dog sightings in Queens, but no luck yet in bringing the award-winning hound home. The second hour of CNN LIVE TODAY begins right now.

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