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Health Insurance for Everyone in Massachusetts? Capitol Confrontation

Aired April 05, 2006 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Health insurance for everybody. Yes, everybody! That is the goal of lawmakers in Massachusetts. The state is the first to approve a bill mandating some form of coverage for all residents, though many small business owners stay could leave them in critical condition.
Details now from our Amalia Barreda of our affiliate WCVB in Boston.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMALIA BARREDA, WCVB REPORTER (voice-over): Visua (ph) is an award-wining salon in Westwood, owned by Betty Ann Wasilunas. Some of her employees have no health insurance. Wasilunas says she's getting squeezed by high energy costs and a slowdown in business this winter. She says the current bill on Beacon Hill, mandating businesses provide workers with health insurance or pay a $295 per person fee, could send her over the edge.

BETTY ANN WASILUNAS, SALON OWNER: All of this adds up at the end of the week on, you know, how much money is left to pay me? And then you want me to, you know, start picking up people's insurance? I think it's out of this world. I think it's crazy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are each other's...

BARREDA: At the state house, a raucous rally in support of the measure. Many of those in attendance, workers with no health insurance like Patrick Elliott, a home health aide from Springfield.

PATRICK ELLIOTT, HOME HEALTH AID: If my governor and my senators and my state reps can have health care, why shouldn't I?

GOV. MITT ROMNEY (R), MASSACHUSETTS: It's a bit like the lining up of the moon and all the stars and the planets in a great gravitational pull to get Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals, all to come together and say, you know what? Getting everyone health insurance is so important, we're going to put aside our major differences. We're going to find a way to do this without losing federal dollars we've been getting, without creating a new tax.

BARREDA: But there is the matter of that nearly $300 fee that the governor calls small money, but small business owners like Betty Ann Wasalunis says she can't afford.

ROMNEY: I'll look at that. That's something I'm going to give some careful consideration to over the coming ten days I get to make amendments and vetoes associated with the bill. And I'll give it very careful scrutiny.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Amelia Barreda of our affiliate WCBV gave us that report. The bill will now head to the governor's desk.

Germany is dealing with its first cases of deadly bird flu in domestic birds. The virus had already been found in wild birds in Germany, and other European countries. Germany has put of a quarantine zone around the chickens, turkey and geese. Authorities are destroying the infected flock.

In Cambodia, bird flu takes another life. The World Health Organization says a 12-year-old boy who died last night had the H5N1 strain. He is the sixth person in Cambodia to die of bird flu since 2003. More than 100 deaths have been reported worldwide.

All right, let's warm things up with some joy right now. How about a bundle of joy times four? A tired but happy Florida mom and dad are welcoming their new quadruplets, four babies at once. Well, you've heard about that before. But what's amazing this time?

Well, let's let Todd Jurkowski of our affiliate WKMG tell you the rest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD JURKOWSKI, WKMG REPORTER (voice-over): Boy, oh, boy! And girl and girl! Anthony Ewing and his wife Elisa certainly have their hands full now.

ELISA EWING, MOTHER OF QUADRUPLETS: The doctor said you're having twins, and I said, yay, I knew it. And then she said, wait a minute. One of them split, you're having triplets. And I was processing that on the table, going, oh, when she said, no, wait a minute. Both of them -- I sat up and I said, this is a joke. You're kidding me? And she said, no, I'm sorry, you know, you're having quadruplets. I laid back down and I just started crying.

JURKOWSKI: Doctors at Florida Hospital marveled at the prospect of the once in a lifetime -- not just quadruplets, but two sets of identical twins.

DR. AMANDO FUENTES, EWING'S OBSTETRICIAN: It was a really amazing experience to go through.

JURKOWSKI (on camera): It's estimated that 90 percent of quadruplets are the result of fertility treatments, and that proves true in this case. The Ewings tried for about two years with fertility drugs before they got what they wanted -- and then some.

ANTHONY EWING, FATHER OF QUADRUPLETS: It was a culture shock. We weren't expecting four. We didn't know what to do with four. And -- just living it day by day. JURKOWSKI (voice-over): They had almost 34 weeks to prepare, a surprisingly long pregnancy for quads, which explains why they're doing so well.

E. EWING: Hello.

JURKOWSKI: The last to be held is Preston Riley (ph), the runt of the litter, doctors call him. But ironically, he's also the one doing the best.

DR. TOM WISWELL, NEONATOLOGIST: That toughens them up. And so not uncommonly, when they come out, they'll do the best.

JURKOWSKI: The bigger of the twin boys, Hunter Pierce (ph), will not be able to pull the "I'm older than you" card. The boys were born at the exact same time. The girls, Alexandria Morgan (ph) and Gabrielle Madison (ph), came one minute earlier. And together, the fantastic four left their footprints in the record books.

Reporting in Orlando, Todd Jurkowski.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: The girls come first! We love stories like that, when the girls come first.

Speaking of girls making big news, Katie Couric announcing that she makes the move.

(MARKET REPORT)

KAGAN: Another note about Katie Couric. Many of her buddies and colleagues will gather with Larry King tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, 6:00 p.m. Pacific, and talk about Katie's big move and what it means. And then Deborah Norville, who as you know, had the "Today" show before Katie, is going to be here on CNN. She's going to join us on LIVE FROM at 1:00 p.m. Eastern.

Now to our video of the day. A sudden and unexpected stop, and thank goodness. We're going to tell you about this frightening parking spot, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Well, is this anything -- actually -- I guess we are doing Beatles? No. Not doing Beatles, Beatles for another day. OK, is this anything to teach a teenager? Give a listen. A textbook used in India teaches that loyal donkeys are better than wives. Honest. The times in India quotes a Hindi language primer meant for 14-year- olds. A donkey is like a housewife. In fact, a donkey is a shade better. For while the housewife may sometimes complain and walk off to her parents' home, you'll never catch the donkey being disloyal to his master. Aaargh! As you might expect, the book has sparked protest from women. It is being revised. That's a good idea.

Does your job have you on the edge? Raymond LaBoy (p) might tell you to stop your whining once you see our video of the day. The Rhode Island security guard was patrolling a mall parking deck. Somehow his SUV ended up on a perilous perch six stories high. Authorities are trying to figure out whether the brakes failed or whether LaBoy might have actually accidentally hit the gas.

A heated exchange over a Capitol controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CYNTHIA MCKINNEY (D), GEORGIA: Let me say that this has become much ado about a hairdo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Coming up, the Congresswoman and the Capitol police. Neither side is backing down. That story just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Nobody's backing down on this next story, not Cynthia McKinney, not the Capitol police. The latest round with the Georgia Congresswoman plays out right here on CNN this morning. A federal prosecutor is considering assault charges against McKinney. She had a run-in with a security officer at a Capitol checkpoint.

On CNN's AMERICAN MORNING, whew, the fireworks were flying, as Soledad O'Brien interviewed McKinney, her lawyers and Capitol police chief.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.

First, Congresswoman, can you tell me from the very beginning, what happened on that day, Wednesday? You're trying to come in to your office to go to a meeting, I know. What happened?

REP. CYNTHIA MCKINNEY, (D) GEORGIA: Good morning, Soledad. Thank you so much for having us on this morning.

Let me say that this has become much ado about a hairdo. And the real issue . .

O'BRIEN: Well, and I hear you, but I'm going to stop you there because -- let me...

MCKINNEY: You can't stop me, Soledad. The real issue is...

O'BRIEN: Well, I want to get to what happened first, and then we'll get into the real issue because we need to establish what happened.

MCKINNEY: The real issue is face recognition and security around the Capitol complex. And I have an e-mail here from a former page saying that 16-year-old pages are required to know by name and by face all of the members of Congress. Shouldn't Capitol Hill police officers be required to do the same?

O'BRIEN: The answer to that question may be, Congresswoman, no, actually, technically, they're not. Their job is to protect yourself and your other fellow members of Congress.

But before we get into the far reaching implications, and I know we've been talking about race and racial profiling over the last several of days, I just want to know what happened. You go through the metal -- you approach the metal detector. Tell me, in your own words, what happened.

MIKE RAFFAUF, ATTORNEY FOR REP. MCKINNEY: Well, that should be answered by her attorney. Look, whatever reaction she had --this is not a criminal matter. What you had was bad security policy being implemented by a poorly trained officer that led to the inappropriate stop and inappropriate touching of the congresswoman.

O'BRIEN: OK. So let me -- let me...

RAFFAUF: Now whether it was a push, a shove, a hit, it doesn't matter.

O'BRIEN: Well, what's the congresswoman's story? Were you pushed? Were you shoved? Were you hit? Did you hit back?

RAFFAUF: Again, we're not the ones who turned this into a criminal matter. And, you know, a person who's accused of a crime is not going to give a statement at this point.

O'BRIEN: But actually -- but with all due respect, sir, and gosh knows I'm not a lawyer, lots of people who are accused of a crime would say, here's what happened. Why can't someone just walk me through what happened?

RAFFAUF: Well, we don't know -- we haven't been told what happened that set...

O'BRIEN: From your side, what happened? From the congresswoman's side, what happened?

MCKINNEY: Well, let me just say that it is a fact that we have had several discussions, and you're absolutely right, right there at CNN, about this larger issue of racial profiling. We've had a press conference with Danny Glover and Harry Belafonte where 39 young African-Americans from Georgia told their story about how they felt disrespected and mistreated by the Capitol Police. We have 200...

O'BRIEN: With all due respect, Congresswoman, and forgive me for interrupting you, but I believe we can't have this...

MCKINNEY: We have 250 -- no, but you shouldn't interrupt me, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Well, until you answer my question, I'm not sure we can move on.

MCKINNEY: We have 250...

O'BRIEN: What I'm trying to establish is, are you saying that a Capitol Police officer purchased you, grabbed you inappropriately? And, ma'am, if he did, please explain what happened. That's all. Let's establish that. Then I would love to talk about racial profiling.

MCKINNEY: Thanks...

O'BRIEN: I have a great interest in talking about race.

JAMES MYART JR., ATTORNEY: Let me (INAUDIBLE), Soledad.

O'BRIEN: I believe this is your attorney on the phone.

MYART: I understand the fact that you're trying to interview her and get her to answer certain questions. But, look, if this was such a big crime, why was Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney not arrested on the spot? Now we have got to get the stories correct here.

O'BRIEN: I could not agree with you more.

MYART: Capitol Police failed at their job.

O'BRIEN: I could not agree with you more that we should get the stories correct. So, somebody, anybody, lawyer, Congresswoman, you walk up to get into the office building. What happened? Did you -- you weren't wearing your pin, I know, and you've said that. You did say that on an interview with Wolf Blitzer. You approached the area. What -- just tell me what happened.

MCKINNEY: I'll tell you what happened.

O'BRIEN: Thank you.

MCKINNEY: In fact, over 250 black police officers have filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Capitol Police Department.

O'BRIEN: Forgive me for my lack of clarity. What happened that day, ma'am?

RAFFAUF: Look, we have answered that question to the best that we can under these circumstances. Again, this matter is under review right now. Criminal charges may be brought. Congresswoman McKinney did cooperate with the Capitol Hill Police. She sat down with them. This is not going to be a place where we're going to rehash the facts of this incident.

O'BRIEN: With all due...

MCKINNEY: But, Soledad...

O'BRIEN: But, wait...

MCKINNEY: Soledad, let me...

O'BRIEN: Just let me say one thing. No, actually, this is my program, so one quick thing. You haven't rehashed it.

MCKINNEY: And I'm your guest.

O'BRIEN: You've never been stated. And I'm happy to have you as a guest.

MCKINNEY: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: And you know I'm always happy to talk to you about this issue or any other issue.

MCKINNEY: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: But what's at issue here, with all due respect, is what happened on that day. Did you push the police officer?

RAFFAUF: We don't know. We don't even know the allegations.

O'BRIEN: Does the police officer...

RAFFAUF: We don't know what specifically she's accused of. So...

O'BRIEN: OK.

MCKINNEY: And, Soledad, let me also just say that while we're talking about a new hairdo and a pin, this is the congressional pin that doesn't have a name on it, it doesn't have a face or a photo ID on it and, quite frankly, it can be duplicated. But what are the other issues that we're not talking about? I'm going to continue to talk about the fact that the Republican budget drowns America's children in a sea of debt. I'm going to continue to talk about the war in Iraq and my opposition to it. I'm going to continue to talk about my opposition to any impending strike against Iran. No more war.

O'BRIEN: All interesting topics, ma'am. But to a large degree, what's being talked about now is an issue that really it's unclear how you're going to get a straight story out of...

MCKINNEY: Well, I...

O'BRIEN: But let me just stop for one second.

MCKINNEY: OK.

O'BRIEN: I'm going to bring in the chief of the Capitol Hill Police. Chief Gainer is with us this morning. I'm going to ask Representative McKinney and her attorneys for a moment just to let us do our interview with Chief Gainer. And then, Congresswoman McKinney, we'll bring you back.

Chief Gainer, thank you for talking with us.

CHIEF TERRANCE GAINER, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE: Good morning. O'BRIEN: I have not been able to get a sense of the congresswoman's side of exactly what happened. Can you tell me what the officer has told you about what happened?

GAINER: Well, the matter is pending review by the U.S. attorney's office. But in essence what happened, the member approached the door. Members don't have to go through the magnetometers but the need to be recognized. It was a busy door. The officer did not recognize the member. She was not wearing her pin. He reached out and grabbed her. She turned around and hit him.

O'BRIEN: Hit him with her hand? Hit him with a cell phone? Hit him with...

GAINER: The cell phone was in her hand and we believe it was in the chest. So all the tapes are being reviewed. And the bottom line for us is, we do pride ourselves in security. It wasn't racial profiling. Anytime an officer doesn't know who someone is coming in the building, I direct them to stop that person. And even if you're stopped, you're not supposed to hit a police officer. It's very simple.

O'BRIEN: There are 535 members of Congress. Congresswoman McKinney has said there's only 14 black female Congress members. You know, the idea that they could not recognize, pick her face out. I mean there's so few, shouldn't she stand out? Doesn't she have a point there?

GAINER: Well, number one, I don't think we should be treating members of Congress different because how they look. Ideally, we teach our officers who the members are. When they go through the academy, they learn that. When new members come in, they're given those photographs. But at those busy doors where some 30,000 people come into our complex who work there, some nine million visitors a year, the doors are busy and the officers are told, slow down and make sure we know who's coming in the building.

O'BRIEN: Now she's not a...

GAINER: This should have been handled very simply by saying -- he pulled her, as he should have, because he didn't know who she was. It would have been very simple to say, gee, I got a little bit angry, this shouldn't have happened, let's kind of calm down and take our breath. This is not a racial issue.

O'BRIEN: OK, well two points then. First, you're saying that you wouldn't -- there wouldn't be a call for her arrest if -- or criminal charges if she had apologized? Is that what it comes down to?

GAINER: No. What I'm saying is, it could have ended very quickly then, but we also have to back up our officers. People cannot hit policemen when they disagree with what the policemen are doing. If a member of Congress or any citizen thinks our officers are misbehaving, racial profiling, there's all sorts of procedures to check that out. The response is not to punch a police officer. That's very simple.

O'BRIEN: This is a woman who's served six terms in Congress. It's not like, you know, well she just joined and that's why they didn't realize who she was. Can understand her frustration...

GAINER: I sure can.

O'BRIEN: Especially as a black woman, you know, she's the minority in the minority there, to feel like, how come everyone assumes I don't belong here?

GAINER: Well, that's not the case at all. I've seen our officers stop white members and black members, and Latino, male and female. It's not an issue about what your race or gender is, it's an issue about making sure people who come into our building are recognized if they're not going through the magnetometer. And this officer, at that moment, didn't recognize her.

And it would have been real easy, as most members of Congress do, to say here's who I am or do you know who I am? One of the ways you do is you have the pin on. And even with the pin, that's not an automatic entrance. The officer would look at the pin, look at the person. And if he saw the pin and the person and it didn't ring true to him, the officer would say, who are you? Even the high and the haughty should be able to stop and say, I'm a congressman and then everybody moves on.

O'BRIEN: Chief Gainer, let me bring Congresswoman McKinney back in to talk with us.

Congresswoman McKinney, you've been listening to what the chief has had to say. Any final word? Any response?

RAFFAUF: Well, I think that she did sit down with them the same day. She sat down with the supervisors...

O'BRIEN: I'm sorry. Let me -- forgive me. Forgive me. This is not a legal question. It's just a, do you have a final response, Congresswoman?

MCKINNEY: Soledad, I think you should accept the response that my attorney is trying to give to you.

RAFFAUF: She sat down with the supervisor of the Capitol Hill Police force that day. She talked to him about what happened. She offered to talk to the officer. So the congresswoman is not the one who's blown this incident all out of proportions. Again, I think that the officer you've interviewed can see this should not be a criminal matter, and we wholeheartedly agree, but it's not the congresswoman who's made this escalate into what it's become.

O'BRIEN: And, Congresswoman, do you have any final response to what you heard from Chief Gainer?

MCKINNEY: I would just like to say, thank you, Soledad, for the questions that you've asked, but also I would just like to say that the actions of a few officers do not representative the actions of an entire police department. And finally, I would just like to also add, that right now the U.S. Capitol Police have two outstanding lawsuits that have been filed against them by their own black police officers. And so if we're going to have a discussion, let's have a complete discussion of all of the facts.

O'BRIEN: Those are class action lawsuits dating back to 2001, absolutely true. However, with all due respect, if I had gotten answers a little more quickly, maybe we could have gotten to that as well.

Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney joining us, her lawyers, Mike Raffauf and also James Myart, who's on the phone. Terrance Gainer is the chief of the Capitol Hill Police. To all of you, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

GAINER: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Whew. Soledad earned her money this morning! The confrontation between McKinney and the officer took place last Wednesday at the House office building.

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