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CNN Live Today
Did Judas Betray Jesus?; No Progress in Senate on Immigration Reform
Aired April 07, 2006 - 11:37 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: They've been talking immigration in the Senate and trying to get something done before senators leave for the Easter Passover holiday. And this is what they've got done, nothing, zero, zilch. The latest version of the immigration bill that was drafted by Republican Senators Chuck Hagel of Nebraska and Mel Martinez of Florida, basically stalled on the floor of the Senate today, and that leaves the senators doing nothing.
After that happened, we heard from Senator Ted Kennedy saying he thinks the senators should stick around and not go on the holiday break, and try to get something done on immigration, but it doesn't appear at this point that that's going to happen. We're standing by, expecting to see -- actually it looks like any minute we'll about to see Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist come out to the podium.
Well, the senator is taking his time. We'll come back to Capitol Hill with more on that when the Senator begins to speak.
Meanwhile, he is the villain of the most read book in the world, but did the Apostle Judas really betray Jesus? There is a newly translated text offering an intriguing spin here. It suggests that Judas was actually a willing collaborator with Jesus.
Our Mary Snow explains. Her report that first aired on "THE SITUATION ROOM."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It questions the way Jesus died and what has been considered gospel for nearly 2,000 years. Was Judas Iscariot, one of the 12 disciples with Jesus in his final days really a traitor, or was he the favorite disciple given a secret as part of a divine plan?
ELAINE PAGELS, NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC PANEL MEMBER: The Gospel of Judas is a real surprise. It pictures Judas not as the worst villain in the history of the world, as he's always been thought of in Christian tradition, but as the one disciple whom Jesus entrusted with secret understanding.
SNOW: That secret understanding, say scholars, is contained in these writings from 300 AD, and referred to by researchers as the Gospel of Judas. The writings revealed Judas handed Jesus over to the authorities, because Jesus instructed him to do so as part of a plan for salvation, and not for money or because of Satan, as written in the Bible. Why is it only coming to light now? Scholars say the early church considered these secret teachings blasphemy.
PAGELS: Many of these were buried, attacked, challenged, denounced, and this text has just barely survived.
SNOW: The National Geographic Society partnered with scholars to restore and translate the battered documents that were found in a desert in Egypt in the 1970s, traded on the antiquities market, and then stashed inside a safe-deposit box for 16 years in New York before an arts dealer returned them to Europe.
There is skepticism about their content. A Vatican historian calls the Judas Gospel, quote, "a product of religious fantasy." Other scholars say it changes nothing.
JAMES ROBINSON, CLAREMONT GRADUATE UNIVERSITY: It's artificial, mythological invention of the 2nd century.
SNOW: The scholars who studied these texts say, whether they're true or not, they add to the understanding of the complexity of Christianity.
Mary Snow, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: They've been looking at this issue on "THE SITUATION ROOM," and you can see more stories like this 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 p.m. Pacific with our friend Wolf Blitzer.
Meanwhile, let's get to know the issue and these papers and Judas a little bit better. For that, let's talk to a man who helped actually translate the manuscript. Marvin Meyer is a professor of bible and Christian studies at Chapman University in California and he joins me from New York.
Professor, hello.
PROFESSOR MARVIN MEYER, CHAPMAN UNIVERSITY: Hello. How are you?
KAGAN: I'm good. I think this is a fascinating subject. What do you think these papers actually say about Judas?
MEYER: Well, it is a fascinating subject and what a moment this is. It is always a very, very exciting time when there is a new gospel that is found, especially a gospel whose title we knew in the past, but we never had the gospel itself. We never had a text. And now we finally have the text and the text is now available to the world. And here is a rather different, a rather compelling and provocative interpretation of Judas, Judas Iscariot, as being the most loved and most insightful disciple of Jesus.
KAGAN: Professor, if you could hang with me a little bit -- because I have more questions on this topic for you, but we do have to go to a modern-day issue, and that is immigration. Here is Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist talking about the failure of the Senate to do anything on an immigration bill today. Let's listen in.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: Good morning. The -- today has been an interesting day for us. After having a very optimistic morning yesterday, we found ourselves today where we're going to have to take a pause where a pause was not necessary. And in truth, the Democratic leadership, by putting a stranglehold on the amendment and debate process, are causing us to postpone a very important issue. And that is addressing our border security, first and foremost, but at the same time doing it in a comprehensive way, addressing the issues of work site enforcement, interior enforcement, a strong temporary worker program. Addressing the fact that 12 million people are living in the shadows today and need to be elevated from those shadows in a respectful and an appropriate way.
We were making reasonably good progress. The Judiciary Committee presented us with a very solid bill under a timeline that I'm sure that you will hear from the chairman about. But with that -- it was a week and a half ago that we began this debate. And the debate has been reasonably civil and reasonably dignified, but there's been one huge problem. And that problem was created by the Democratic leadership. And that was that we were going to deny the expression of the will, the intent, of 99 other United States senators.
There were about 400 amendments filed, and as all of you know, not all of those would ever be taken to the floor. But the fact that after nine days with 400 amendments filed, only three were allowed to come to the floor, be debated and voted upon, is a travesty because that ultimately brought down very good policy, good progress being made on a very real need, a need that does address the security of the country, not knowing who comes across the borders.
Thousands of people came across last night, are going to come across tonight. We don't know who they are, where they're going, what their intentions are. So in a way, I'm disappointed. On the other hand, we're going to leave here for recess with a very good solid proposal on the table that was put forward now two days ago by the two senators you'll hear from, Senator Hagel and Senator Martinez. A solid proposal, a proposal that is comprehensive, a proposal that does deserve debate. And some amendment to, in all likelihood. But all of that has been denied.
Let me just compliment the Judiciary Committee and the chairman. I compliment them a lot for lots of things they do, from judges to other legal issues, and now most recently to a product that they produce under, yes, a timeline, but it did allow us to begin this important debate now a week and a half ago.
And the Judiciary Committee works very hard through every recess. The chairman and I just were joking a little bit coming into the room that this may be one recess that at least they can...
KAGAN: Listening into Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, basically talking about the Senate. They got nothing done on immigration. That simple. They leave for two weeks for a break now. Maybe more comes up after that break.
Want to get back to our fascinating conversation with Professor Marvin Meyer, talking about this new gospel of Judas, looking at perhaps Judas wasn't a bad guy, actually was perhaps a good guy.
Professor, what do you say to those that they this is all just religious fantasy?
MEYER: Well, I would prefer to say that this is religious interpretation, because that's what we have in every Christian gospel. Gospels are texts with interpretation. Every New Testament gospel has its own interpretation, and so here we have the interpretation of the gospel of Judas. That is what is so rich and what is so lovely about the text, that we have here another kind of interpretation of the significance of Judas Iscariot.
KAGAN: Quickly, I just have to ask you -- you, as we said, were one of the translators. It was written in Coptic. How does one get fluent in Coptic? It's not like in high school you take French, Spanish or Coptic.
MEYER: Well, there are a few programs in Coptic around the world, and one is lucky enough to get in one of those programs, then these texts can open up in front of one. And I would strongly encourage anybody who cares about these kinds of texts and the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary Magdalene to get into a Coptic studies course and learn how to read these texts in the original Coptic.
KAGAN: Your passion rings through. Thank you for your time. I know our conversation was cut short, but that's kind of how stuff works here on CNN. Professor Marvin Meyer, thank you.
MEYER: Thank you.
KAGAN: And you can learn more about the Gospel of Judas Sunday night on the National Geographic Channel. The show airs at 8:00 Eastern. Folks on the West Coast can see it at 9:00 Pacific team. "The Gospel of Judas" is also National Geographic magazine's May cover story, and the subject of two books.
We'll take a break. We're back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Well, here's a disturbing trend, the obese are getting younger, and so are those who choose surgery to control their weight.
Our senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains in his "Fit Nation" report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Jonathan Hernandez was a normal-sized baby. His mother says he didn't start getting big until third grade. As he got bigger, he stopped going out and he stayed in his room.
JONATHAN HERNANDEZ, BARIATRIC SURGERY PATIENT: What would people think when they saw me like that? You know, it was like -- and then I didn't want them to, like, look at me, and look at me, like, "Oh, my god, look at him" -- like that.
GUPTA: At 16 he weighed 402 pounds. His sleep apnea was so bad that even breathing was difficult. He had to undergo a tracheotomy.
MARYDALE MASSEY, JONATHAN'S MOTHER: He was so big that it was pressing on his heart and on his chest and he couldn't breathe.
GUPTA: In two years he's lost 90 pounds after having weight loss surgery at a new pediatric program offered in Atlanta.
DR. MARK WULKAN, EMORY CHILDREN'S CENTER: It's a life saver, and it's life-altering for these children. I think you give them back a piece of their childhood.
GUPTA: Dr. Mark Wulkan performs bariatric or weight loss surgery that involves inserting a band that clamps down on the stomach, restricting access. The Food and Drug Administration has not approved the use of the so-called lap band for children 17 and under, but Wulkan believes it's safe, in part because it's reversible.
(on camera): Hospital officials around the country say the increased demand for adolescent weight loss surgery has prompted them to create special programs for obese kids. In fact, one surgeon here in Atlanta told us he used to get requests for surgery once a year, now he's getting them once a month.
(voice over): Weight loss surgery can cost up to $25,000, with Medicaid sometimes picking up the tab. And the issue surrounding obese teens are complex and cultural. Nutrition and fitness expert Dr. Pamela Peeke urges extreme caution when it comes to surgery.
DR. PAMELA PEEKE, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: We don't have long- term data outside of three to five years, and at that time we're seeing that it appears a large number, if not a majority, are actually regaining their weight.
HERNANDEZ: Bye, Kaitlyn (ph). See you tomorrow.
GUPTA: Jonathan's mother says, for her son, having the operation was a lifesaver.
MASSEY: That saved my baby's life.
GUPTA: Despite the work, Jonathan says he'd do it all again. He now has good friends, has taken a great interest in drama class, and just went to his first prom.
Jonathan's mother sums it up this way...
MASSEY: Now he's enjoying life to the fullest, believe me. I mean, to the fullest. GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan. International news is up next. Stay tuned for YOUR WORLD TODAY. Then I'll be back with the latest headlines from here in the U.S. in about 20 minutes.
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