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CNN Live Today

Duke Rape Allegations; Chilling Testimony; Katrina Waste; Building Collapse Near London; Iraq War Politics; A Legal Maze; Immigration Nation

Aired April 11, 2006 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We're watching. The scaffolding actually on the side of this office building that was being built collapsed. They said -- witnesses there said it collapsed like a pack of cards and there is fear that many people might be trap in that scaffolding. Several people feared trapped as this harshly built building and the scaffolding collapsed. We're going to keep an eye on that with these pictures coming out of London. More on that as it becomes available.
Right now, though, let's go ahead and focus on the story that is developing right here in the United States. The DNA results are in and now our prosecutor faces the next test in the Duke rape investigation. Do you go forward or do you drop the case? Attorneys for Duke's lacrosse players say that DNA tests cleared the men. They're accused of raping an exotic dancer during a team party. The case has inflamed divisions in the North Carolina community. Our Jason Carroll has the latest from Durham.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): The defense attorneys representing 46 members of Duke University's lacrosse team were very definitive.

WADE SMITH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No DNA material from any young man tested was present on the body of this complaining woman. Not present within her body, not present on the surface of her body and not present on any of her belongings.

JOE CHESHIRE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There is no evidence other than the word of this one complaining person that any rape or sexual assault took place in that house on that evening. It wasn't here two weeks ago, it's not here today, it won't be here tomorrow.

CARROLL: Durham's district attorney handed over the results after receiving them late Monday. He would not comment on them.

MICHAEL NIFONG, DURHAM DISTRICT ATTORNEY: It would be inappropriate for me to comment on any of the evidence at this point. And it would be inappropriate for me to comment on any of the things that have been said by the defense counsel. I'm trying to prepare a case so that we can be in a position to do what we need to do under my statutory authority.

CARROLL: An exotic dancer who attends a nearby university by day has told police she was raped by three lacrosse team members after she performed at a party at this off-campus house rented by the players. The players have maintained nothing happened. In addition to the DNA results, Bill Thomas, an attorney for one of the players, says he has time-stamped pictures that he says discounts some of the young woman's allegations.

BILL THOMAS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: These photographs corroborate the statement of all 46 of these young men. It's very clear that the victim in this case came to the house with injuries on her.

CARROLL: The father of one of the players expressed relief at the evidence, but concern about the impact on the team.

MARK KOESTERE, PARENT OF LACROSSE PLAYER: But they all are, as they say, cautiously optimistic. They know that this is not over. They know that there's a lot of scrutiny on the program, on the school, and that probably lacrosse at Duke and life at Duke will never be the same. We hope it's better.

CARROLL: The case has already magnified racial tensions in the community. The young woman is black. She says the three white players who attacked her used racial slurs.

CHESHIRE: None of us standing up here are saying that there aren't proper social and moral issues that have come out of this whole discussion that aren't appropriate for discussion. There are. But, unfortunately, people have meshed those things with this sexual assault.

CARROLL: The defense attorneys say their clients are relieved but not surprised by the DNA results. They also say it's time for the district attorney to drop the case so Duke's players, the university, and the community can begin to heal.

Jason Carroll, CNN, Durham, North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Obviously this latest development raises a number of legal questions. Our Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins me by phone now.

Jeff, good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn.

KAGAN: So the defense attorney comes out and say there's no DNA match. Is this a done deal or does the investigation go on?

TOOBIN: No, it certainly will go on. And I think there's a lot we still don't know here. And there's one specific issue we don't know that really is very important. Do these DNA tests show the presence of semen of a person who is not among the 46? If that's the case, then I really do think the investigation is probably over and these 46 students will be cleared. However, if the results are simply ambiguous, if no match could be made between whatever genetic material was found on the woman in anyone, then the investigation will certainly continue using the traditional non-DNA techniques, eyewitnesses, witness statements and the prosecution will see if they can make a case.

KAGAN: Well, where does the prosecution go from here and does it have to be just simply a case of rape? Perhaps this woman was attacked?

TOOBIN: Well, that's right. And it's important to remember that rape and all sorts of other kind of assault cases have been proved for years without DNA evidence. And, at this point, the prosecution has to rely on those traditional techniques. They'll interview the women. Perhaps they'll do a lineup and see if she can identify her attackers.

They will take statements from the students who were the suspects. Perhaps some of them will talk to the police and make damaging admissions. Those are the traditional techniques and others that police and prosecutors use and a DNA test doesn't stop them from using them and perhaps even bringing a case.

KAGAN: As a former prosecutor, Jeff, how do you think this investigation has been handled so far? Is it even possible to have a proper investigation in such a heated atmosphere?

TOOBIN: Well, you know, there are often high-profile cases, and I'm not prepared to say that the Durham authorities have messed this case up at this point. The important thing they have not done is filed charges before they're sure of their case. There's no reason. I mean these 46 students, f they're suspects, they're not going anywhere. There's no reason to think that they're going to be fugitives. So I think it's proper to do a full investigation and then make arrests, if possible. But obviously, these DNA tests have not made the police and prosecutor's case any easier and it is good news for these students.

KAGAN: Jeffrey Toobin on the phone. Jeff, thank you for your expertise. Always appreciate it.

As you heard in the piece, of course, there are moral and ethical issues that have been brought up in this whole story. We're going to have a chance to talk with representatives from both universities that have been involved in the story. That's ahead on CNN LIVE TODAY.

An understatement, to say the least. This is an emotionally trying week for witnesses and jurors in the Zacarias Moussaoui case. Today, families who lost loved ones at the Pentagon are telling their stories. They followed painful and tearful testimony from people whose relatives died in New York on 9/11. CNN's Kelli Arena is covering the trial in this "CNN Security Watch."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): The jury heard gut-wrenching 911 calls from people trapped inside the burning World Trade Center. Melissa Doi was on the 83rd floor of the south tower pleading with the operator to send help.

MELISSA DOI: I'm going to die, aren't I?

DISPATCHER: No, no, no, no, no.

DOI: I'm going to die.

ARENA: Help never arrived.

Tax lawyer Harry Waizer told jurors how he was riding the elevator up to his office at Cantor Fitzgerald, a financial securities firm, when the first plane struck. Flaming jet fuel burned his face, legs and arms and damaged his lungs and throat. His story was as horrific as when he told it to the 9/11 Commission.

HARRY WAIZER, 9/11 SURVIVOR: The elevator was ascending when suddenly I felt a drop by an explosion and then felt it plummeting. Orange streaming sparks were apparent through the gaps in the doors of the side of the elevator. I the elevator scraped the walls of the shaft, the elevator burst into flame. I began to beat at the flames, burning my hands, arms and legs in the process.

ARENA: Cantor Fitzgerald lost 658 staffers on 9/11.

Yesterday, one by one, victim family members cried or fought back tears as they testified in the Zacarias Moussaoui death penalty trial. Lee Hanson described how his son, Peter, his daughter-in-law and their child, Christine, died aboard United Airlines Flight 175. Christine, just two and a half, was the youngest victim on 9/11. Peter had called his father from the plane after hearing him whisper "oh, my God" three time, Lee Hanson watched on television as that plane struck the tower and burst into flames.

Incredibly, seven of the 15 witnesses lost two or more relatives. Most did not look at Moussaoui except for one. Sharif Chowdri (ph), a Muslim from Bangladesh, glared at Moussaoui after testifying that in Islam a man is not allowed to kill another innocent man. Chowdri lost his daughter and his son-in-law.

The judge warned prosecutors that too much emotional testimony could be grounds for an appeal. Telling them, "you may pay a price for that down the road."

Kelli Arena, CNN, Alexandria, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

Case dismissed against a New Orleans man roughed up by police. Remember this video? It was the run-in last October between retired teacher Robert Davis and New Orleans cops. It was caught on tape. Davis was charged with public intoxication, resisting arrest and battery. Now he and his lawyers says prosecutors have dropped the case. Davis insisted all along he hadn't had a drink in 25 years. The three officers still face charges. Two were fired.

Katrina contracts riddled with waste. You're not going to believe how much the government paid for blue tarps, ahead on LIVE TODAY.

Believe it or not, this barking could be the answer to your inner peace. Coming up on LIVE TODAY, meditating with your dog.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Haste makes waste. And hasty decisions following Hurricane Katrina lead to a waste of your tax dollars. That is the conclusion of government inspectors. Details now from CNN's Sean Callebs.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Everyone in New Orleans now knows the definition of a blue roof. But what they probably don't know is FEMA paid contractors some $175 for each square 100 feet to put protective tarps in place. But those contractors subcontracted the work out. Then those contractors did the same thing. So did the next and the next and the next. So in the end, in some cases, crews doing the actual work were paid just $2 per square.

SEN. MARY LANDRIEU, (D) LOUISIANA: There's been extraordinary waste, extraordinary inefficiencies.

CALLEBS: Louisiana Senator Mary Landrieu is on the congressional committee investigating allegations of waste and abuse in government contracts. Leaders say the findings are eye opening. REP. BOBBY JINDAL, (R) LOUISIANA: What's even more appalling is local roofers are saying for $175 per foot we'd give you a permanent roof.

CALLEBS: FEMA admits there were problems with the way some contracts were handled, but didn't return CNN's call seeking details. Lawmakers say the waste continues. Without taking bids, FEMA awarded contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars to four national companies to pick up debris. Lawmakers say they were paid as much as $27 a cubic yard to remove the mess. Local parish leaders say the work could have been done for about a fourth of the cost.

And then there's the issue of trailers. More than 20,000 still sitting idly in Arkansas and other locations and FEMA ended up paying about $76,000 for each travel trailer that's being used for a year and a half. Some congressional leaders say residents would have been better off just receiving the cash.

JINDAL: Even if you said, we'll just give you half if you don't take the trailer, I guarantee you the vast majority of the people would say, we'll take half and we'll be better off than if you'd given us an $80,000 trailer for 18 months.

CALLEBS: Congressional members wanted more answers from FEMA, but all representatives of the emergency management agency left the meeting before it was over, unconscionable says Senator Vitter.

SEN. DAVID VITTER, (R) LOUISIANA: And to me that says almost everything you need to know about the attitude problem that we've experienced from, unfortunately, the very beginning.

CALLEBS: Congressional members are demanding changes in the way FEMA works. Knowing the U.S. will get hit hard again by a punishing hurricane, they say there is no reason taxpayers should get hammered again by government waste.

Sean Callebs, CNN, in New Orleans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: This just in. The Associated Press with results of one of the latest Vioxx trials. This says that a jury in Atlantic City, New Jersey, has awarded a man $9 million in punitive damages to this man who blames his heart attack on Vioxx. More information as details become available on that.

Also ahead, interesting story out of Texas. He's an Iraq war vet. Now he's on a different battlefield. The political battlefield. The war is still front and center. We will explain coming up on LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: The markets have been open about 50 minutes. You wouldn't really know it. Someone wake up investors, tell them it's time to go to work. The Dow barely moving. It is down just a point. The Nasdaq is down more than that. It is down about 10 point.

Let's go ahead and check on this developing story out of London today. Tony Harris is watching that for us.

Tony.

TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You were talking about it at the top of the show, Daryn. We want to take you back to London now. Want to show you some of the pictures where police and emergency teams are working on a partial building collapse. The fear obviously is that there are people trapped in this building.

What happens is a piece of the building collapsed. Two walls of the building collapsed on the scaffolding outside of the building, causing the scaffolding to fall from 14 floors. There could be as many as 20 people injured.

Again, don't know yet how many people might be trapped in the building. Witnesses say the scaffolding collapsed like a pack of cards. We will keep an eye on this situation as emergency teams work the scene.

Daryn.

KAGAN: Tony, thank you. HARRIS: Sure thing.

KAGAN: A story out of Texas now. There are nine of them, seven Democrats, two Republican, Iraq War veteran's running for office and one is taking a bit of a political gamble, embracing President Bush's position on Iraq at a time when that stance is losing popularity. Senior Political Correspondent Candy Crowley has the report first seen on "The Situation Room."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VAN TAYLOR, (R) TEXAS CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I'd be honored to have your support. I'm a 10 (ph) generation Texan and an Iraq War veteran.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): This is one Republicans would dearly love to have.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Looking forward to the trip and have the opportunity to join all of you in supporting the next congressman from the seventh district, Van Taylor.

CROWLEY: Van Taylor is running in Texas 17, deep in the heart of bushland. It includes Waco and Crawford, home of the president.

TAYLOR: I served as a Marine team commander in Iraq and I'd like to go fight for our values in Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED: MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

TAYLOR: That is my little girl right there.

CROWLEY: He's a young, new face, a conservative Republican in a conservative district which last election went 70 percent for George Bush whose echo is loud and clear.

TAYLOR: There are people right now that want to destroy our way of life and we need to send people to Washington who understand this new world that we live in, this post-9/11 world.

CROWLEY: Taylor's resume seems built for these times and troubles. A Harvard MBA and business owner, ex-Marine who saw combat in Iraq and the comings and goings along the Texas-Mexico border.

TAYLOR: Lead troops on the boarder. And I know that it is not secure by any standard. We are facing thousands of illegal aliens entering our country every day.

CROWLEY: His campaign has been well-funded, drawing Republican donors from across the country. And, still, Taylor run against the wind. A Bush Republican when the tide is distinctly anti-Republican and distinctly anti-Bush, holding fast on Iraq as much of the country moves away.

TAYLOR: What I'm concerned about is politicians in Washington for political gain trying to put restrictions on our troops or, even worse, are calling for us just to quit the battlefield altogether and betray our troops in the field.

CROWLEY: And Taylor faces a tough and tested incumbent. Democrat Chet Edwards has handily won this seat in the past two elections. The last one despite Republican-led redistricting which claimed the careers of several other Texas Democrats. Tough, but Republicans believe still doable. Expect Texas-sized spending in the 17th. Among hundreds of challengers nationwide, only nine have raised more money than Van Taylor.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Waco, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And you can join Wolf Blitzer in "The Situation Room" this afternoon at 4:00 p.m. Eastern. The live prime time edition at 7:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Well, they don't scale a fence, they jump the pond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

: It's like being at the top of a ladder, or two rungs from the top, and we can't get to the top.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Ahead, a couple from Ireland fighting for immigration changes here in the U.S.

Also on the immigration front, break the law and run for it or do you do it by the book? There are ways to come to this country legally. It's a challenge, though. We're going to show you ahead on CNN LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Thousands, perhaps millions, on the streets, protesters angry over tough immigration proposals. So this got us thinking, how hard is it really to immigrate to the U.S. legally? CNN's Tom Foreman filed this report for "Anderson Cooper 360."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that I will bear true faith.

CROWD: And that I will bear true faith.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Look at the pictures, hope and inspiration of legalized American citizens.

CROWD: And justice for all.

FOREMAN: And the question about illegal immigrants seems obvious.

Why don't people come here legally? And the answer is just as clear to Brent Wilkes, an activist for immigrant rights.

BRENT WILKES, IMMIGRATION RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Well, they can't play by the rules when the rules are you can't play.

FOREMAN: Well, you can play, but the rules are strict, according to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service. First, through family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, "GREEN CARD": This is ridiculous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, "GREEN CARD": No, no, no. Look, for a green card, I'd do anything.

FOREMAN: As the movie "Green Card" portrays, immediate families of U.S. citizens can come in with relative ease, as long as they prove the relationship is not a fraud.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do.

FOREMAN: But bringing in others is difficult and time-consuming. If you were from the Philippines and want your grown, married son to join you this year, you should have applied for his legal entry in 1988 because that waiting list is 18 years.

Immigrant sports stars, celebrities, people with highly- specialized skills or advanced educations can be brought in by employers, but the less special they are, the harder it gets. People seeking political asylum are legally admitted while their cases are evaluated. So are investors who commit $1 million to build a U.S. business, a half million if it helps a struggling industry.

And finally, there is the diversity lottery. Out of the millions of low-skilled and unskilled laborers who want to move to America every year, 55,000 essentially have their names pulled from a hat. But, and this is important, if you are from Mexico or a handful of other countries that already send a lot of immigrants, the State Department has said your name cannot be in the hat.

Immigration was once much more open. When the nation needed many workers, people hopped on a boat overseas and hopped off here.

WILKES: That was it. It's nothing like that anymore. It's much more complicated and it's much harder to come into the country legally. And for that reason, that's why we've got illegal workers.

FOREMAN: Taking the citizenship quiz, saying the oath, those are the easy parts. Getting legally in line for the test, that can be hard.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE) KAGAN: Well, you say the words illegal immigrant and most everyone stares south. But the picture isn't complete unless you look across the Atlantic as well. The couple's grandparents were welcomed to the U.S. with open arms, but they have to fight to stay here. Randi Kaye has their story. Her report first aired on CNN's "ANDERSON COOPER 360."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For a decade, Brian and Caroline have called America home.

BRIAN, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT: I am American as much as President George Bush. I do everything American. I follow the NASCAR, I follow the American football. I hunt like the Vice President Dick Cheney.

KAYE: They own a home in Yonkers outside New York City, pay taxes, and both have jobs. Brian owns a plumbing business. Caroline works as a secretary.

BRIAN: We want to have a family in this country, but the situation we're in at the minute, we can't go forward. We're stuck.

KAYE: Stuck because Brian and Caroline, who asked us not to use their last name, are living in the United States illegally.

BRIAN: It's like being at the top of a ladder or two rungs from the top, and we can't get to the top.

CAROLINE, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT: I'd find it very, very hard to leave here. Because just made it our home.

KAYE: Caroline lives every day in fear of being deported back to Ireland where they both came from on tourist Visas, now long expired.

(on camera): Is it strange for you because you're living the life of an American citizen, yet you're not a citizen?

BRIAN: Exactly. It's just, it's very frustrating for me because, like I am doing everything an American citizen does, but all I need is that small piece of paper, the Green Card.

KAYE: He travels the country to speak out at rallies like this one held today in New York City.

BRIAN: ... what's going to happen. We're going to stand together!

KAYE: What would you say are some of the greatest challenges that you face here, living here illegally?

BRIAN: Well, the number one challenge, as you saw today, is the driving. That's the biggest danger for me at the minute is not having my driver's license. KAYE: The law requires anyone applying for a new license provide a valid Social Security number. Since he's illegal, Brian doesn't have one.

BRIAN: I employ two Irish guys and two American lads. One of them I actually employed just to drive me around and to work.

KAYE: And travel? That's out of the question. Too risky.

CAROLINE: I missed both grandparents' funerals. I couldn't go home for them.

KAYE (voice-over): Before the couple's wedding in New York last October, they hadn't seen family and friends in years. They feel they are being treated like terrorists, not like the hardworking, tax- paying citizens in training they consider themselves to be.

(on camera): Do you see a clear path of citizenship in the future?

BRIAN: Definitely, I do. I think the immigration system is definitely progressing, and I feel very strongly that they have to do something. I think they will.

KAYE: Brian and Caroline hope next year, if immigration reform passes, they will have new Visas, and soon after, they'll have children. American citizens who won't have to wait like their parents did to walk freely and legally on U.S. soil.

Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And you can get a fresh perspective on the day's top stories from Anderson Cooper. Join "A.C. 360" weeknights at 10:00 Eastern.

The Duke lacrosse story, it involves more than just the Duke campus. There is another school across Durham that it also involves, North Carolina Central University, where the accuser goes to school. We're going to hear more about that school. Also, we're going to talk to representatives from both campuses about the mood in Durham. That's coming up in just a minute.

Also, America, if you think gasoline prices are high right now, just wait until summer. Burning rubber and dollars on your way to vacation land. But perhaps there's some tips out there of how you can, well, maybe help out on the high prices. We'll find out in just a bit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: The DNA results are in and now the Duke rape case may be in limbo. Attorneys for the lacrosse players say that DNA tests cleared the men, but the prosecutor won't say whether he'll drop the case. He's expected to form -- at a forum going now at a school not far from Duke. The alleged rape victim is a student there. The two schools are separated by only a few miles, but long-standing divisions.

Our Jason Carroll is on the campus of North Carolina Central University, with more on an event that is about to take place.

Jason, good morning.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, Daryn. And the forum is expected to happen just about a half hour from now. And the district attorney Michael Nifong is expected to attend perhaps during this forum, which is supposed to be a forum focusing on the issue of sexual abuse. Perhaps some time during this forum, we'll hear a little bit more about his thoughts on this case. We haven't heard that much from him since the DNA test results have been released. We have heard much from the defense attorneys, who say that DNA test results prove what they've been saying all along.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you know you haven't done anything wrong, you're not surprised that the evidence shows you haven't done anything wrong. Now let me make this clear, too. None of us standing up here are saying that there aren't proper social and moral issues that have come out of this whole discussion that aren't appropriate for discussion. There are.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have (INAUDIBLE) results, as I am required to do by statute, to the attorneys for all the people who asked to submit to the (INAUDIBLE) order. It would not be appropriate for me to go into those results. However, if any of them are interested in doing, so they certainly have the right to do so. You just need to contact those individual attorneys or individual players.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: As you can see, the district attorney didn't say much there. But in an interview with me last week, Michael Nifong, the district attorney, did tell me that he did not need a DNA match to continue with his case. Again, he is expected at this forum to speak. No guarantee that he will say anything at all about the case. He'll also be joined by Durham's mayor, a city councilman, the NCCU, student body president, as well as Duke's student body president. This forum, Daryn, was actually organized last week, obviously before any of the DNA test results came out. It's going to be very interesting to see who says what here today.

KAGAN: And we will be watching for that. Jason Carroll in Durham, thank you.

Let's talk about what's happening on that campus of North Carolina Central University. Joining us to discuss that is Rony Camille. He is assistant editor of the campus newspaper at North Carolina Central.

Rony, good morning. RONY CAMILLE, ASST. EDITOR, "CAMPUS ECHO": Good morning, Daryn. How are you?

KAGAN: Are you going to the forum today? Is that where we're catching you?

CAMILLE: Right after this, I will be heading over.

KAGAN: Great. What can you tell me about reaction to the latest news, these defense attorneys coming out and saying the DNA was not a match.

CAMILLE: It's been a mixed -- kind of feelings, confusion, anger. Students want to get straight-out answers. And hopefully they will get them at the forum today, with the D.A. being present.

KAGAN: Has this situation shown a light on the situation that already existed in Durham even more than just racial and socioeconomic issues, the differences between these two campuses?

CAMILLE: Well it's -- say that again?

KAGAN: Well first, tell me about your school. Tell me about North Carolina.

CAMILLE: North Carolina Central University is a historically black university. Basically Duke and NCCU on the student level are not really knowing what's going on between the two schools. As far as the university level goes, there might be some partnerships going on there.

KAGAN: And geographically, how far apart are the two schools?

CAMILLE: Give or take maybe five, six miles or so.

KAGAN: So not very far by car or by driving, but what about socially?

CAMILLE: Socially....

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: ... some classes, perhaps, but in terms of interaction and...

CAMILLE: Absolutely. Students can take classes at Duke, and Duke students can take classes here at NCCU. But as far as a social connection, as far as students knowing what's going on at Duke, or Duke students knowing what's going on at NCCU Central, very limited since I've been here.

KAGAN: And these allegations and this situation with the lacrosse team and this accuser, some people have said, you know, this is just a situation, or part of an environment that already existed, that there were racial tensions and this is a segregated community as well. What would you say to that? CAMILLE: I wouldn't say per se it was a segregated community. Obviously there have been complaints about the lacrosse team in the past, but to say that Durham has been a segregated community, it's a very diverse community.

KAGAN: Andy, Rony, When you go to the forum in a few minutes, what will you be looking to for? Who do you want to ask questions from?

CAMILLE: I really want to hear answers from the D.A. himself and the investigations, and why he has been holding the DNA, and if he will be pursuing any charges, even though the DNA came out negative yesterday.

KAGAN: We will be listening in as well. Rony Camille, assistant editor from "The Echo." That's the campus newspaper for North Carolina Central University. Thank you.

CAMILLE: Thank you.

KAGAN: And very soon on CNN LIVE TODAY we're also going to talk to the editor of the Duke newspapers. We're going to do that in about 25 minutes.

Well, no time for slow walkers. Now an elderly woman trying to cross the street gets a ticket and a fine. Come on. You're going to have to stick around to see this story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: All right, dog lovers. People hunt with dogs, they play with dogs. How about this? Coming up, we're going to talk with a man who says you should meditate with your dog, and he's going to show us how. Dog meditation just ahead on CNN LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Man's best friend, dogs have earned that title over thousand of years. We work with them, we play with them, they lift our spirits, and sometimes they even share our sorrows. Now a book about taking that special relationship a step further. It's called "How to Meditate With Your Dog." James Jacobson is one of the authors, and he is here to talk about meditation, why it's good for dogs and people.

We should also introduce our rent-a-dog. This is Amber, the daughter dog of our director, Mike Fleiss (ph). So, Amber, welcome to you, too, little girl.

JAMES JACOBSON, "HOW TO MEDITATE WITH YOUR DOG": You see, she's right on cue.

KAGAN: Yes, thank you. Very good.

OK, before we get to how, James, why do you meditate with your dog? JACOBSON: Well, I think meditation is the single most important thing we can do for our health and happiness.

KAGAN: As people.

JACOBSON: As people. There's a ton of research that shows that. But most people don't know how to begin a meditation practice. And the whole point of the book is to day that if you have a dog, you have a natural meditation guru, because they are good at this. They spend so much of their time in time in a place that I call "hound lounge," where their eyes are half open, half closed. So dog lovers will do things for their dogs that they would never do for themselves, including meditate.

KAGAN: OK, lesson one, how are we going to meditate with the dog?

JACOBSON: OK, well, would you like to take Amber?

KAGAN: I'll take Amber, yes.

JACOBSON: She's already had her screen test.

KAGAN: Come here, little girl. OK, come on. All right. OK.

JACOBSON: The first key in meditation is you want to follow the breath.

KAGAN: We're breathing in.

JACOBSON: And that' a very ancient concept that's around for thousands and thousands of years, but instead of following...

KAGAN: I think your mic fell off actually when we made the move.

JACOBSON: There we go.

KAGAN: There you go, OK.

JACOBSON: Instead of...

KAGAN: Back to the beginning.

JACOBSON: Back to the beginning. Following the breath is one of the most important things in meditation.

KAGAN: OK.

JACOBSON: So often in human meditation you follow your own breath. Well, when you meditate with the dog you follow the dog's breath.

KAGAN: I'm going to start panting like Amber here.

JACOBSON: You might have to increase your respiration a little bit, but in the beginning you do that. What happens is after doing this for a few days, Daryn --- it's usually about five or six days of doing this consistently, 10 minutes a day, the dog will start to match your breath, and all of a sudden the respiration rate decreases, and the dogs just go into this state where they -- because they're pack animals and they want to be with you, and they start to match your breath.

KAGAN: I get it. So you kind of get in tune.

JACOBSON: Totally. And they relax. And the whole point of medication, really, is to let go of thoughts and to have as few thoughts as possible, so as a thought comes into your head...

KAGAN: I think Amber is having a few thoughts about maybe getting down. But maybe...

JACOBSON: Amber is like I -- well, I don't know. She had a little parade around the newsroom earlier.

KAGAN: She did. We were doing some breaking news, and Amber was...

JACOBSON: Dog on the loose.

KAGAN: ... running around. So is this -- this is both for the dog and for you?

JACOBSON: It's really for the dog and you. You know, again, there is so much research that shows that meditation is great for us. My goal is to get folks to meditate for ten minutes a day. And they'll do it if they're doing something for their dog. It's also good for the dog, too.

KAGAN: And, well, frankly, does size matter?

JACOBSON: Does size matter? No?

KAGAN: Because Amber is doing great sitting here, and I could see how we could just sit here and have a very relaxing time. But you know, my dog at home is about 60 pounds.

JACOBSON: It doesn't matter the size, the age or the breed of the dog. What REALLY matters is the relationship THAT you have with your dog. And we were talking before we went on that you and your dog are really close. And that's what -- all that matters, is the relationship that you have with the dog. They want to be in the pack. They want to meditate with you.

KAGAN: So this tool of inner peace is as close as the foot of your bed, perhaps?

JACOBSON: It is a natural thing and dogs love it. Now, you know, things like CDs -- and there are things that you can do to ritualize it, which is what I do every day. I have a ritual where after I get up in the morning, I walk the dog, I take a shower and I meditate with my dog. They like the ritual, doing it in the same place every day, listening to the music. KAGAN: What do you listen to when you meditate with your dog.

JACOBSON: Well, the book comes with a meditation CD.

KAGAN: Oh, OK, so there you go.

JACOBSON: That makes it easy.

KAGAN: Finally, why limit it to a dog? Could you meditate with your turtle, with your bird, with your cat?

JACOBSON: Well, with your cat, you got it. Later on this year, the book "How to Meditate With Your Cat" is coming out. But the subtitle says it all. It's a -- the subtitle is "How to Meditate With Your Cat: A Tale of Two Kitties." Because there are cats that will meditate with you like dogs, and then there are cats that have their own agenda and so they meditate in a different way so that...

KAGAN: Well, when the cat book comes out, I can bring my three- legged cat in, because Tripod is a great medidator.

JACOBSON: Now that's a perfect name for your cat.

KAGAN: He does great. Darla, she wasn't going do the lights and everything.

JACOBSON: She wasn't going to do the lights.

KAGAN: But Amber, thank you.

JACOBSON: Amber has been amazing.

KAGAN: Yes, you're a good girl. Yes.

JACOBSON: And there are details if you want to hear about this on our Web site.

KAGAN: "How to Meditate With Your Dog." What is the Web site?

JACOBSON: It's dog -- www.dogmeditation.com.

KAGAN: Yes, OK.

JACOBSON: Amber wants to go check it out.

KAGAN: OK, Amber, we're going to let you go. Everyone say bye- bye to Amber. There you go. Get your mama. There you go Amber.

JACOBSON: She's a news hound.

KAGAN: She is a news hound, and she is loose in the CNN newsroom. Bye-bye, Amber. James, thank you so much.

JACOBSON: It has been wonderful. Thank you so much.

KAGAN: Thank you. I feel calmer already. JACOBSON: What I will do, I'll show you and Tripod how to do it later on.

KAGAN: Yes, he does great (INAUDIBLE). It's a good thing.

JACOBSON: That's a Sphinx cat.

KAGAN: Thank you.

JACOBSON: Thank you.

KAGAN: Well, speak of dogs -- and we're going have more on dogs coming up next week. I guess we'll get to that. We're talking to a dog whisperer next you. I thought we were going to a tease on that. But I'll tell you more about that in a little bit. There you go. Cesar Milan (ph) came over my house with my dog Darla. She had a few lessons, not just for Darla, for mom. Yes. That was an interesting afternoon. There is Miss Darla. OK. We'll do that next week. Thank you, James, for that.

Also, this week, if you're not going by your dog, you might be going by car. Answers for the high pump prices. They're in the mix. An expert explains just ahead on CNN.

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