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CNN Live Today

Bush to Discuss Immigration; Third Indictment Possible in Duke Rape Case; Bill Cosby Speaks on Black Culture

Aired May 15, 2006 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Desperate times call for desperate measures. That's the feeling of many Americans. Most view the immigration issue as a full-fledged crisis, but there's little agreement beyond that, like what do you do about it?
For a closer look, let's turn to our CNN senior political analyst Bill Schneider. Bill, good morning.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Daryn.

KAGAN: First let's talk about President Bush. Why do you think he's picking this issue to attack and bring to primetime television?

SCHNEIDER: It's a crisis, as you just said, for many Americans, especially those in the border states, but even people in New York, Chicago, the in-flow of illegal immigrants. It's a full-fledged crisis. It's a crisis because of the demand for public services, because there are security concerns about who's getting into the country, because of what they see as flagrant violations of law. So they want something done and they want border security and enforcement, first of all.

KAGAN: But because there's not a lot of agreement on how you handle the situation, is this an additional political risk for this president?

SCHNEIDER: Well, look, on the issue of border security, the conservatives give that top priority and the public regards it as an urgent matter. But when you go beyond that to issues like what happens to the somewhat -- something close to 12 million illegal immigrants who have been in this country for years, that's where you get real disagreement.

Conservatives say no way, no how, should these people be given a path to citizenship that's amnesty. But you know what? Most Americans say if they've been here for five years or more and they've shown themselves now to be hard working and law abiding, they should be allowed to go on a path to citizenship, even if it's called amnesty, our polling shows. So that's where you get a real disparity, discrepancy, between the general public and conservatives.

The third issue is a guest worker program. That's something the president has been talking about for a long time. That conservatives do not like and the general public is very suspicious of it because of the very simple problem, how do you get the guests to leave? It's not clear.

KAGAN: Well, many of us who have had guests who stayed too long understand that fear right now. Bill Schneider, thank you.

SCHNEIDER: OK.

KAGAN: New tests. Actually, we will be following this all day long. We have primetime coverage of the president's speech at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. You can see -- Wolf will be along in his regular slot at 7:00 p.m. and then the president's speech at 8:00 and then a special edition of "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" at 8:30 p.m. Eastern and then Larry is along at his regular slot at 9:00.

And we're going to continue to tackle the topic today here on CNN LIVE TODAY. Within the next hour, we'll be going to the border to see what the situation is there, and also opinions about perhaps using National Guard troops in additional roles. Also, we will go inside the numbers and look at the numbers of National Guard troops and see if, indeed, there is the extra troops to use along the border.

Also ahead, new tests, no match, no case. That's what lawyers representing Duke University lacrosse players in a rape case are saying. Still a grand jury meeting today could hand out a third indictment.

Our Jason Carroll has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Defense attorneys have prepared themselves for the likelihood of a third indictment that could come later today against a Duke lacrosse player now that the second round of DNA test results are in; results they believe prove nothing.

JOE CHESHIRE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We can say to you categorically that this report shows no conclusive match between any genetic material taken on, about, in or from the false accuser and any genetic material of any Duke lacrosse player.

CARROLL: While they say the results are inconclusive, the report does make name a third lacrosse player, someone whose DNA material was found under the alleged victim's fake fingernail. Defense attorneys argue the nail was found in a trash can in a bathroom of the lacrosse house, and therefore, is tainted. Even more importantly, they say the report shows semen was found in the alleged victim, but it does not match any of the players.

CHESHIRE: They did retrieve male genetic material from a single source, a single male source, from vaginal swabs, and that that source has been named in this report is a person known to the Durham Police Department. To put it very it appears that this woman had sex with a male, but it also appears, with certainty, that it wasn't a Duke lacrosse player.

CARROLL: Durham's district attorney, Michael Nifong, did not return repeated calls about the second round of tests. He has said in the past it's his moral obligation to pursue anyone he believes is guilty of a crime. The second round of tests Nifong ordered were done by a private lab; the first round, done by a state lab, showed no match between the players and the alleged victim. The young woman, an exotic dancer and a student, says three players raped her during a lacrosse party. So far, two have been charged, Reade Seligmann and Colin Finnerty.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And our Jason Carroll is live from Durham, North Carolina. Jason, how has this system worked? Will we expect an announcement either way at the end of day?

CARROLL: We do. We expect to hear something. Although, you know, last time, the indictments were handed out by the grand jury. It's a secret proceeding, and the indictments were sealed, so there was some confusion early on, in terms of whether or not someone had been indicted. We expect that to happen again today. If there is some sort of an indictment, we expect the indictment to be sealed.

KAGAN: Jason Carroll, live from Durham.

Let's get more on the legal aspects of this case. Our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins us. Also a former prosecutor. So you can explain how this system works. How does it work that weeks later, yet another person might be indicted?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the statute of limitations on a case like rape is years. So the fact that a few weeks have passed is not terribly significant, especially when you have suspects in this case, the Duke lacrosse players, who were not suspected of fleeing. So the fact that this has taken a few weeks isn't very significant. What's significant is whether or not the government really has the evidence to convict them.

KAGAN: Well, let's talk about that possible piece of evidence or perhaps lack of evidence. The defense once again letting it be known that they say there is no conclusive match of DNA between any of the lacrosse players and the person who is making the allegations. How does that help or hurt the case?

TOOBIN: Well, what we have to remember is, so far, virtually all the evidence that has been made public has been made public by the defense, and they obviously have an agenda. It's perfectly appropriate. But we shouldn't think that that's the only evidence in the case. It does appear to be true that there is no direct DNA evidence that can say a semen sample from one of the lacrosse players, which is would be virtually certain evidence that sexual contact had been made.

But it's also important to remember that something like 75 percent of the rape convictions in this country, there is no DNA evidence. Mostly -- the most important evidence is the accuser saying this person raped me. That is presumably what this case will principally be based on. It doesn't mean it's a bad case, doesn't mean there won't be a conviction. It would be better for the prosecution if there were DNA evidence, but it doesn't mean there won't be a conviction here.

KAGAN: Meanwhile -- it's something you were alluding to you here --the spin that is going on, through various characters in the case, much coming from the defense team, how is that going to make it possible to get a fair jury trial here?

TOOBIN: You know, one of the things I've noticed in covering high-profile cases, Daryn, is that jurors are a lot less affected by the spin than we think they are. You know, we think -- or perhaps we hope -- that would-be jurors spend all their time watching CNN and reading about cases.

KAGAN: Of course they do!

TOOBIN: But unfortunately, they don't. And we think that people are inundated with information. It doesn't matter to a potential juror if -- for a potential juror, if they've heard of the case. But if a juror can say, look, I've heard something about it, but I can keep an open mind, as many of them do, I don't think that's going to be a big problem in this case.

I mean, there -- you know, going back to the Oliver North case, the Michael Jackson case, even the O.J. Simpson case, which was sort of a separate category, jurors are pretty good about separating what they might have heard in the news from what they hear in a courtroom. And I expect in this case there won't be much of a problem.

KAGAN: All right. Jeffrey Toobin, live from New York City. Thank you.

TOOBIN: See you, Daryn.

KAGAN: Still ahead, we're going to hear more about this change in the diplomatic stance between the United States and Libya. More on that at the top of the hour.

And required reading. One state is closer to putting gays and lesbians in the history books. It's a story that has parents and politicians talking. Details ahead on LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

KAGAN: President Bush set to address the nation tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Of course you will see that live here on CNN. We are told that the national guard troops would support and not replace the U.S. Border Patrol. That's one of the things the president will be talking about. So what do we know about that federal agency?

CNN's Betty Nguyen has this Fact Check.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BETTY NGUYEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The U.s. Border patrol got its start in the early 1900s. For a handful of agents on horseback, the job involved patrolling desolate, often rugged areas along the borders with Mexico and Canada. More than 11,000 men and women continue doing that work today, patrolling nearly 6,000 miles of border area, as well as some 2,000 miles of coastal waters and the island of U.S. territory of Puerto Rico. While horses are still used,, the Border Patrol covers deserts, canyons, and mountains in SUVs, all-terrain motorcycles, snowmobiles, bicycles and planes. A recent addition to their equipment, unmanned aerial vehicles.

While charged with stopping the flow of illegal immigrants, another crucial job is trying to ensure terrorists and weapons of mass destruction don't get into the U.S. The patrol says that last year, over one million people were arrested for illegally entering the country.

Agents also play a role in the war on drugs. With help from sniffer dogs, the agents seized more than 12,000 pounds of cocaine and over a million pounds of marijuana last year.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Interesting byproduct of the president's speech tonight. How has the most powerful man in the world, being President Bush, changed the plans of one of the most powerful women in the world? We'll it will you when we get back to the immigration debate in about 15 minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: A tussle over textbooks in California. At issue, history and the contributions of gays and lesbians. Should it be required reading for school kids?

CNN's Chris Lawrence has that story. It first ran on "THE SITUATION ROOM. "

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Millions of public school students would read about gay and lesbian people's contribution to history if a California bill becomes law. The state senate approved the bill, which allows identification of sexual orientation and bans textbooks that portray gays and lesbians in a negative light.

LORRIE FEINBERG, PARENT: I think it's fantastic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is terrible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's long overdue.

LAWRENCE: From parents to politicians, reaction was mixed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you write people out of history, they don't feel significant.

LAWRENCE: Some parents say textbooks have been changed before, to include woman and minorities, and historical role models boost self-esteem.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jewish immigrants found out that Einstein was Jewish. That person might feel, wow, you know? Jewish is OK. And I feel good about myself.

LAWRENCE: California spends $400 million a year on textbooks. And a lot of them would have to be changed to reflect the contributions of gays.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If in fact there is a discussion in English about Oscar Wilde, it will reference the fact that he was gay.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If, in fact, there is a discussion in English about Oscar Wilde, it will reference the fact that he was gay.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just makes me a little uncomfortable.

LAWRENCE: Rosemary Fogg says sexual orientation should only come up if it had something to do with the historical event itself. Harvey Milk's murder in San Francisco fits that criteria. He was an openly gay politician gunned down by an anti-gay conservative.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both Mayor Moscone and supervisor Harvey Milk have been shot and killed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jesus Christ!

LAWRENCE: Falk would not want sexuality mentioned when it comes to, say, an author or inventor.

ROSEMARY FOGG, PARENT: You wouldn't say, oh, he was a straight person, you know. Unless it's totally relevant to their part in history, I don't know if that would be something I'd want part of the curriculum.

LAWRENCE (on camera): A lot of California Republicans say the legislature has no business dictating how history books are written. They're going fight this when it comes before the state assembly in June, and ultimately, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has to approve it, too.

Chris Lawrence, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: You can see more of Chris' stories on "THE SITUATION ROOM." Tune in this afternoon at 4:00 Eastern. The live primetime edition begins at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, with special coverage of President Bush's speech tonight. On the same side of the border, on opposite sides of the immigration debate. Two Americans, two very different Americas. That's next hour on CNN LIVE TODAY.

And next, Bill Cosby is speaking out again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN: This -- these people have gone crazy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: One of America's top dads speaks out about African- American culture and more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Bill Cosby pulls no punches. One of America's top dads issues a wake-up call to young African-American women. His message, he says, take charge. The legendary comedian and actor addressed graduates at Spelman College here in Atlanta on Sunday. Before his speech at the all-women's school, Cosby sat down with one-on-one with CNN's Tony Harris.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: When you speak to this class today...

BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN: Yes.

HARRIS: Give me a sense of what you'll say.

COSBY: We're at a time when you look at numbers -- and people are just throwing numbers out, and these numbers tend to have no feeling -- about the incarcerated African-American male. But it sounds like it's not good news if the African-American female is looking for a love partner, a mate, a business partner, a marriage partner, whatever you want to call it, someone to build a family and a home with.

This is not your grandmother's world. It's a whole different place. And you've got to think about you taking charge. You've got to think about you taking charge in business, family, raising your home, taking charge of you, taking care of you. There's a whole bunch of confusion in this United States about who we are. To ourselves.

HARRIS: Who are we?

COSBY: That's the confusing point. We are many, many things. We are the weakest; we are the strongest, within ourselves. There are tons and tons of examples of those who were down as low as anybody can be in terms of having a foot on your throat, and they tossed that foot away, got up and they won. And then there are those who have had things, and they just allowed themselves to become a part of something called a culture that as Farrakhan -- Minister Farrakhan has said is leading our children into the valley of death. HARRIS: Do you think legacy at all?

COSBY: Yes.

HARRIS: You do?

COSBY: Yes. Not for me.

HARRIS: OK.

COSBY: Not for me. I think legacy, and then I think how our race is allowing the word culture to -- to accompany itself with some people who are drug dealers and saying they're dealing drugs because they don't want to flip burgers or think about moving higher in the business world, or getting an education.

I'm watching TV, and I see a host of a show who is applauding a movie about some damn pimp. And how rough his life is. And a movie about some damn drug dealer and how intelligent he is because he could count money.

This is -- these people have gone crazy. That's not a legacy. And it certainly is not a culture.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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