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CNN Live Today

Immigration Battle; New England Flooding; Bridge Implosion; Border Patrol Support

Aired May 16, 2006 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: That's it. We're out of time.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks for being with us.

Daryn.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you. You guys have a great day.

And we will get started. A number of major stories that we're following this hour.

The rain is letting up in New England, but the trouble is not. Washed out roads, hundreds forced out of their homes. And the final stinker, backed up sewage.

And BellSouth says it just does not ring true. The telephone company says it never did hand over customer phone records to the government spy agency. We are watching a Senate hearing on that issue this hour.

And good morning. Let's start this hour with marching orders. President Bush wants the National Guard on the border. Now he needs support from his foot soldiers on Capitol Hill. Senators are diving into volatile issues on illegal immigration today and they're doing it under the glare of President Bush's prime time speech. Meanwhile, Mr. Bush's lieutenants are also mobilizing this morning. At any moment the Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff will meet with reporters to help sell the immigration reforms. Chertoff appeared on CNN's "American Morning" earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL CHERNOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: And that's why the president talked about doing things like getting more unmanned aerial vehicles, sensors, infrared detectors. Because with these kinds of tools, you can use what will ultimately be over 18,000 border patrol to do the entire border in a way that is cost effective and also effective in terms of mission completions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: President Bush's prime time speech has earned mixed reviews. Our White House Correspondent Ed Henry joins me now.

Ed, what is the next step for President Bush? ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, he will be heading to Arizona on Thursday. One of the key border states. Obviously try to make yet another push for this.

And the snapshot CNN poll that we saw overnight suggests that 67 percent of the people who actually watched the prime time address had a positive view of what the president laid out. That's some good news for him. But on the other hand, this was not really the audience -- wasn't just about a broad, public audience.

He really was looking at a narrow audience of conservatives on Capitol Hill, as you mentioned, who really hold the key to forging some sort of compromise on the immigration reform bill. The president was trying to show, look, if I'm going to be serious about getting tough on border security, which is what a lot of conservatives want, you also need to come to the middle on this guest worker program, pass the citizenship for the nearly 12 million illegal immigrants already here. The problem is, there's really no movement from the conservatives towards the middle. So the president's still at a stalemate.

Daryn.

KAGAN: Well, and because his audience was a conservative Republican, still interesting that he used the phrase "rational middle ground." That is not what Republicans and conservatives like to hear when they send somebody to Washington. They don't want to hear that compromise. They want somebody representing their ideals.

HENRY: Well, absolutely. That's going to inflame some of the conservatives even more. Also just a couple moments ago the Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid was on the floor praising the president. That's pretty rare to hear that. Saying it was a commendable job by the president.

Well, what's at work there is that Democrats are just -- they just love highlighting this split between the president and his fellow conservatives, so they just keep throwing praise at the president because more often than not it's people like Harry Reid, Ted Kennedy and other Democratic senators who are supporting the president's guest worker plan or at least some broad outline of a plan like that and so the Democrats are just eager to highlight that split.

KAGAN: Ed Henry at the White House, thank you.

Now let's listen to Michael Chertoff, the head of Department of Homeland Security, in a briefing talking about border security.

MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Next generation technology. The kind of things we use to create effect in overseas when we conduct operations, for example, in Asia. Just this year, the department has had its first unmanned aerial vehicle which accounted for 23 drug seizures totaling more than four tons of marijuana and also resulted in the apprehension of 2,300 illegal migrants. So more of this kind of high-tech is really critical. And that means our SBI net program, which we've issued for bid this past April and which we're expecting to begin to award and start to deploy towards the end of this fiscal year.

But it's not just enough to arrest a million people a year. We have to actually remove them. The goal here is not to arrest and release, it's to arrest and remove and ultimately to achieve deterrence because people understand when they're caught they're going to go back home again. And so we've been focused on moving from this old catch and release system to a catch and remove system and we've made a considerable amount of progress but we have more progress we can achieve to get this problem completely turned around.

But ultimately, if we look at the business model for the illegal migrant, we have to consider the tremendous economic pressure that is driving people into this country. And it is not an economic pressure that can be addressed simply by dealing with more boots on the ground and more technology at the border itself. We have to look at what's going on in the interior.

One way to think about it is, it's like trying to dam a river. If you build a dam and you don't have a spillway to drain off some of the excess water in a way that's productive, you will eventually have to either keep building the dam higher and higher or the dam will break. We have to have a spillway for some of this economic pressure and that's a temporary worker program which allows us to take economic migrants and channel them in a regulated and visible way so we know who they are, so we can track them and so we can bleed some of that pressure that the border patrol is facing at the border.

And in order to make that work, we also have to have a stick and that's tough interior enforcement. As you know, we've begun a process of applying criminal penalties to employers who are flagrantly violating the immigration laws by systematically using illegal migrants to make up their labor force. All of these pieces we tie together in what we call the Secure Border Initiative which we announced in November. And since then we've begun to see some of the results of this comprehensive program.

ICE has detained and removed more than 17,500 non-Mexicans apprehended at the southwest border under our expanded use of expedited removal. And with respect to many of the populations of non-Mexicans we catch, we have now totally moved from catch and release to catch and return and we've seen some results in deterrence. We're actually seeing for the first time a seasonal decrease in the number of people from these countries that we're apprehending at the border.

We have one big step left in order to complete this job and that is to get rid of a 20-year-old court order that is hampering our ability to use expedited removal with respect to people from El Salvador. And we have legislation and members of Congress have introduced that would help us achieve that.

We're acting against the financial infrastructure of human smuggling and trafficking organizations and ICE is also using fugitive operations teams to arrest more than 44,000 illegal aliens, including 33,343 fugitives and over 10,000 non-fugitives. More than 20,000 of these people arrested by these ICE teams have criminal records. And as I said, we anticipate at the end of this year beginning the process of putting online this next generation of technology. What the president did last night is put on the turbo chargers in dealing with this focus anti-illegal migrant effort that we've got on a comprehensive basis. And if we take advantage of this . . .

KAGAN: We've been listening in to the Secretary of Homeland Defense Michael Chertoff. He's giving a brief that would take to the next step what President Bush was talking about in his speech last night. Michael Chertoff pointing out that there's an economic model that you have to be aware of that is fueling illegal immigration, including human smuggling, as well as the economic forces that are drawing people and pushing people into this country. So Michael Chertoff giving a briefing today.

Want to get back and continue our conversation on immigration and look at some recent poll numbers, especially after President Bush gave his speech last night. A new CNN poll of viewers showing an overwhelmingly positive response to the proposals that President Bush made last night. Only 18 percent, in fact, reacted negatively. Worth noting here, the audience for presidential speeches always more partisan than the general public.

That being said, President Bush seems to be enjoying a bit of a bounce from his speech. Forty-two percent saw his immigration policies in a positive light before the speech. That number shot to 67 percent after that.

And we'll have much more on the immigration debate as LIVE TODAY rolls on, including this story coming up.

Pay up, Mr. President. A sheriff in Oregon sends a bill to Mexico's leader.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you say to your critics who would argue that this is nothing more than a PR stunt?

JOHN TRUMBO: It's not a PR stunt. It's about right and wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Coming up, the lawman, his letter, and illegal immigration.

Getting back to President Bush for just a moment. He is busy this morning making an appearance with a key ally in the war on terror, Australian Prime Minister's John Howard. That's at 11:45 a.m. this morning. They will hold a joint news conference. And you'll see that live here on CNN.

On to the soggy weather in New England. Days of rain and days of worry. Residents in New England are dealing with the region's worst flooding in decades. They're keeping a close eye on a dam in Methuen, Massachusetts. So is our Dan Lothian because that's exactly where we find him this morning.

Good morning.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, it continues to rain here and the river is rising behind me. This one, the Spigot River, is about four feet or so above flood stage. It has not reached its peak yet. Most of the other rivers around the region have peaked. So that is some good news.

But still some concern here not only for what could occur in terms of water overflowing the banks here, but also the dam behind me. Officials have been watching that carefully. There was some concern that perhaps it could buckle, sending a wall of water down to the homes below. But that has not happened. And officials are cautiously optimistic that it will hold.

But certainly there is a lot of damage not only in this community but in other communities across Massachusetts, New Hampshire and also in Southern Maine where we have seen extensive flooding across neighborhoods, on streets. Bridges have been washed out. A lot of folks have a lot of water in their basements. So one of the things you've seen as you drive around, pumps at the side of homes trying to pump a lot of that water out. And one thing, if you talk to residents here, what is it that you would like to have? And what they'll tell you is, we want a break in the weather.

Daryn.

KAGAN: They'd like some sunshine. We've left you out there so long, Dan, I think your fingers probably have -- oh, he can't hear me. Let's give him a second. Are you back?

LOTHIAN: OK, I'm back now.

KAGAN: OK. I was just saying, we left you out there so long I think your fingers and most residents there have that raisin effect at the end of your fingertips.

LOTHIAN: That's right. I feel like . . .

KAGAN: We'll be back with you -- go ahead.

LOTHIAN: I feel like I'm trying to set a record inside, you know, one of those water bubble things.

KAGAN: Yes, like David Blaine. There you go.

LOTHIAN: Yes, exactly. Exactly.

KAGAN: All right, Dan, thank you.

And actually I'll have a chance to talk with the mayor of that town and talk more about what the folks there really need in just a moment. First, though, let's see what the forecast holds for that region. Here's Jacqui Jeras.

Jacqui.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: Let's go back now to Methuen, Massachusetts, and have a chance to talk with the mayor. The problems there are far from over. We are welcoming in Mayor William Manzi from Methuen, Massachusetts.

Mr. Mayor, good morning.

MAYOR WILLIAM MANZI, METHUEN, MASSACHUSETTS: Good morning to you.

KAGAN: I don't know if you were able to hear Jacqui Jeras's forecast but it sounds like the best news possible, that weather should be clearing in your area.

MANZI: It would be a substantial help to us. It's raining as we speak and that is not helping us now. But thankfully the river that we are looking at now hopefully has crested. And so even with this additional rain, we're hopping that the worst is behind us.

KAGAN: Yes, the Spigot River dam was what was in question there. How is that holding?

MANZI: That is holding up right now as well as can be expected. It has not breeched. We have taken every measure possibly locally to ensure that that dam remains intact, including sandbagging on both sides of the dam.

KAGAN: And also voluntary evacuations. You've asked people to move out of their homes.

MANZI: We've had mandatory evacuations downstream from the Spigot. Additionally, we've had mandatory evacuations adjacent to the Merrimack River, which is also a problem for us.

KAGAN: Do most folks in that area have flood insurance?

MANZI: No, I do not believe that they do have flood insurance unfortunately. We're working with state and federal agencies to try to help people financially now. Congressman Meehan is on the scene as we speak, so we'll be talking to him in a few minutes about potential disaster relief from the federal government.

KAGAN: And besides that, the biggest help, of course, would be sunshine from mother nature. But do you feel like you and your town are getting the kind of support that you need?

MANZI: Yes. The state has been very helpful. The state emergency agency, MEMA, is on the scene with us continually. We've gotten the resources we need from the commonwealth of Massachusetts. So we are satisfied currently that they're doing everything they can to help us through this difficult time.

KAGAN: And I'd sure kind of like to get a personal perspective. From listening to you, I'm going to guess you grew up in the area?

MANZI: I did. I actually have owned a business in the downtown area since 1969. So I'm very familiar with this area and I've never quite seen it like this. It is unbelievable.

KAGAN: All right. Well here's hoping for dropping waters as soon as possible. Good luck to you and your town of Methuen, Massachusetts.

MANZI: Thank you very much.

KAGAN: Mr. Mayor, thank you.

Coming up, we're going to get back to the immigration topic. After President Bush's speech last night, we're going to talk to politicians from the southwest, clear across the political spectrum, including Sheila Jackson Lee. Bill Richardson is joins us as well. And that's coming up.

Also -- busted. An alleged sex predator now behind bars. How it happened coming up on LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: An ongoing story in Charleston, South Carolina. Not so easy to bring down an old bridge. They've had to do it in pieces.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they have.

KAGAN: Betty Nguyen tells us more about that.

Betty.

NGUYEN: Who doesn't want to see an implosion? I mean no one's getting hurt. Lots of fireworks. Lots of explosions. Well, take a look at this. This is the back portion of the Grace Bridge. Oh. Boom.

KAGAN: Boom.

NGUYEN: Right there. Don't you just love hearing that sound. All the smoke coming up. Again, this is the back portion of the Grace Bridge in Charleston, South Carolina. It leads to the Barrier Islands.

But not to fret. See that bridge in the foreshot (ph) right there up at the top of your screen? Well, that's the new bridge. It's already up and running. It's the Ravenelle (ph) Bridge. But this old bridge had to be taken down because the new bridge is there.

So to give you an idea of how big the implosion this is. It's actually taken down in three major sections, over 1,000 tons, almost 1,000 feet of steel. This was a huge undertaking. But not to worry. All of the steel that's in the water, that's going to be taken back up and recycled.

But here's the interesting, kind of the humorous part of this. I got the little press release here, Daryn. And according to the Cooper River (ph) bridge coordinator, the best viewing area is on the water.

KAGAN: Oh.

NGUYEN: Now I don't know about you, but if a bridge is coming down, I'm not getting on the water.

KAGAN: You might not want to be there. Yes, you're not one of the little fishies in the Cooper River down there that are saying, whoa, what's coming down.

NGUYEN: Exactly. What's happening here? But, nonetheless, a really amazing site to see, as always.

KAGAN: Absolutely. Thanks for those pictures, Betty.

NGUYEN: Sure.

KAGAN: Much of the political bickering is over the use of military forces when it comes to the immigration debate at the border. CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr is at her post this morning.

So, Barbara, got a few details in the president's speech last night. About 6,000 troops. But how is this really going to work and what's the time frame?

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Daryn, it is the details that are now being worked out. National Guard, military officials now talking to the state governors, talking to state officials about exactly how this will work. About 6,000 troops over the next two years or so, National Guard troops, mainly aimed at supporting, of course, border patrol authorities. And as the border patrol is able to increase its manpower, the National Guard would step back.

What they are looking at is really maintaining a support role, reconnaissance, surveillance, intelligence gathering, that sort of thing. What they don't want to have is have this be an undue burden on state National Guardsmen. They're hoping that people really won't have to leave their jobs in the communities, for example, to go do this duty. They hope to have them on very short rotations, keep moving people in and out of these jobs so that it won't disrupt their lives and it won't disrupt communities.

For example, Guardsmen who have recently returned from Iraq or about to go to Iraq are not expected to have to do this duty. But over the next several days, the National Guard will be talking to the governors about how all of this will work.

KAGAN: So they're even talking about using Guardsmen from other states, not necessarily just the border states?

STARR: Well, that's right. What a lot of people may not realize is the National Guard, in each state, they have agreements that they have negotiated over the years with other states so they can trade back and forth, if you will. Think of this way. In a western state, for example, if there's a huge brush fire and they need help from another state, Guardsmen from another state come in and help.

That might be what actually works out here. If a National Guard element in an individual border state simply doesn't have enough people on hand to do it, they will look to other states and that's where the Pentagon comes in, helping work out those arrangements, helping work out those trade-offs back and forth to make sure that everybody gets what they need.

But very importantly, Daryn, this will be under the control of the governors of the individual states. They will say what they need, they will request those forces, but they will not have anything that they don't want in their own states. It is the governors, we are told, who will have the major voice in how all of this works.

KAGAN: And, in fact, I'll have a chance to talk with one of the governors who will be dealing with that, Governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico. He'll be my guest in just a little bit.

Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Barbara, thank you.

STARR: Sure.

KAGAN: And is often the case in Washington, lawmakers are split on the president's immigration plan. Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee is from Texas, a state critical to immigration reform. She lives it and she has opinions about it.

Congresswoman, good morning and thanks for being here with us.

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE, (D) TEXAS: Good morning. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be with you.

KAGAN: So many different layers of this. I want to start specifically with this idea of using National Guards troops as a supplement, as a support, to the border patrol. What do you think of that idea?

LEE: You know, I've been to almost every part of the southern border. I've walked along the border in California, in New Mexico, and certainly along the border in Texas and certainly know of the conditions in Arizona. Some, almost two years ago, Daryn, we talked to the White House on legislation that I offered called the Rapid Response Border Protection Act. In fact, Senator Kerry will offer that amendment today.

We had a plan to offer 1,000 border patrol agents into states that have been declared a national disaster by their governors. In fact, we had a plan to have 15,000 extra border patrol agents over a 10-year period. That's really the issue.

And I think the issue that we're raising is not that we don't want a cooperative spirit, a comprehensive immigration reform where we have benefits and security, but we think the president is looking in the wrong direction. Our National Guard troops are on the front lines in Iraq. We didn't even have enough to utilize in Hurricane Katrina. And then their roles are going to be sort of a backstep, sort of a behind the scenes, unlike the work that the National Guard . . .

KAGAN: So you would rather have it more of a militarized role?

LEE: Oh, no, absolutely not.

KAGAN: No.

LEE: What I'd like to see is enhanced border patrol agents with training. Training them fast like the 9/11 commission said.

KAGAN: Well, that's still -- isn't that the long-term goal? I guess the question is, so what do you do now? The president's talking about this being about a two-year plan. It's a stop gap measure. Do you do nothing if you don't like this as a long-term plan?

LEE: Absolutely not. What you do now is you train border patrol agents. Can you imagine a nation of our size saying that we can't train professional border patrol agents? We have them available to be trained. And what I would offer is that we utilize, enhance the number of border patrol agents, move them when places are needing extra assistance from one state to the next and then begin to use them as, if you will, emergency troops.

They have that capacity. They have the knowledge about the immigration issues and laws. What we're doing with our National Guard is basically putting them in a state of inertia. They can't rest. They can't stop. They're just logistical individuals and, frankly, I believe that that's not going to have an impact.

I hope the president calls us into the White House, and that is members of the House, as he did the Senate, and really talk about a comprehensive plan that includes the benefits, earned access and finding real solutions to border security. We have it. This amendment that Senator Kerry is going to offer had speed boats. It had new equipment, night goggles. It had computers. These are the kinds of tools that will really enhance our border patrol agents. They can do the job.

KAGAN: Let me just jump in here because our time is short and there is another big topic that the president addressed last night, this idea of earned citizenship. Do you think that's a good idea for the illegal immigrants who are already here?

LEE: The first thing I want to say to the American public is that this word amnesty has been, I guess, demonized.

KAGAN: Well he is calling it earned citizenship.

LEE: Absolutely right. And I want to make the distinction because I agree with the president that amnesty is free. Earned citizenship -- or I like to call it earned access to legalization because, frankly, you do not become a citizen immediately and I think that's an important point. You get on the line.

KAGAN: But do you understand where critics go with this? Critics say you were illegal and now we're offering you a pathway to not be illegal and we're allowing you to do it in a way -- you know, you broke the rules and what's the message that sends to those that followed the rules?

LEE: And that's why I utilize the term that it's not free. It's a painful process and you don't get in line in front of those who have been waiting patiently in line. You're separated. You have to have a number of hurdles to cross. Both the language, community service, the one that I offered, no criminal background and you pay stiff fines. I think that certainly speaks to the fact that your initial behavior was not legal.

But it's not something that's free. And it simply says that it is a solution to a problem that's not going to go away. I'd ask any American do they expect to deport some 12 million individuals who are here with their families, many of their children born in this country. They own homes. It would take us centuries to do that because they have appeal rights. It would take 200,000 buses to do that. I think if we talk to the American public both as the president, the House of Representatives, the Senate and one voice, that is that we are going to be the problem solvers that are going to provide for border patrol agents and earned access.

KAGAN: Well that's the key there, as one voice.

Let me just ask you this final question because you've been in Washington so many years and you know Texas. Is anything going to get done here or is the House and the Senate just on a collision course?

LEE: You know, that's why I have written the president a letter that I sent in the last two weeks.

KAGAN: No, I know, you've been very good explaining what you've done. But tell me, do you really think anything is going to get done, bottom line?

LEE: I think it can get done if we seriously come together in a summit that says this is not to be politicized and that the country needs us to react. If we do not perform in that way, absolutely not because the election is pending. But it can be done.

I think there needs to be a meeting of the House and Senate in the White House. Leadership needs to be focused on the fact that the American people are crying out for a solution and not one that is divisive, but one that is uniting. We can do it.

I prefer border patrol agents at the border and I'd prefer us addressing the question of the undocumented immediately. Along with, might I say, protecting American jobs, providing job training for Americans so they don't feel that we're leaving them out in this discussion.

KAGAN: Wrapped up well. Representative Sheila Jackson Lee. Congresswoman, thank you for your time today.

LEE: Thank you for having me. Thank you.

KAGAN: I want to let our audience know that we'll also be talking with New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson ahead and also Representative J.D. Hayworth, a Republican from Arizona.

Also coming up at about 12:30 Eastern, Tony Snow. It's his first White House briefing. You'll see it live here on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every member of the Duke University lacrosse team is innocent. You have all been told some fantastic lies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Strong words from the Duke lacrosse player. He denies rape accusations. So what now? We're live from Durham, North Carolina, ahead on LIVE TODAY.

Plus we're watching the markets. They've been open about an hour. Not a lot of movement. You can see the Dow is up about 11 points. A little bit more than that. The Nasdaq, though, barely moving. It is down less than a point. More business news ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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