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Al-Zarqawi: What's Next?; Al Qaeda's Future; Bribery Scandal; DeLay's Departure; Gerri's Mailbag

Aired June 09, 2006 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: It is a busy hour ahead. Good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Betty Nguyen.

Unfolding this hour, we have new developments in the air strike that killed Iraq's most wanted terrorist. Within the past hour, we have learned that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi apparently was alive initially after the strike. We're going to have those details unfolding live right here on this show.

Also this hour, we expect to hear from President Bush when he'll take questions from reporters. So you'll want to stick around for that.

But we do begin at the Pentagon and word now that Iraq's most wanted terrorist, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, somehow initially survived that air attack on his safehouse.

Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr joins us now with the latest on this.

This is something we learned just a little bit earlier at the Pentagon briefing, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Betty. There had been a lot of rumors about it yesterday but nobody was really talking about it. But now, today, the top military spokesman in Baghdad, Major General Bill Caldwell, telling reporters via a video press conference here at the Pentagon that Zarqawi did survive for a few minutes after the attack. That when Iraqi police, the first to arrive on the scene, got there, he was alive. They put him on a stretcher. U.S. forces quickly arrived on the scene and did, in fact, see Zarqawi alive.

Let's get right to it and listen to a little bit of what General Caldwell had to finally say about all this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Can you give us the definitive word now, do you have any information that Zarqawi initially survived the air strike, that he was alive at any point in the hands of either Iraqi or U.S. forces?

MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM CALDWELL, MULTI-NATIONAL FORCE-IRAQ: I'm reading the report. I did not talk specifically to any uniformed person. But according to the report, we did, in fact, see him alive. There was some kind of movement he had on the stretcher and he died shortly thereafter.

STARR: Did anyone render medical assistance to him?

CALDWELL: As I was reading the report, they went into the process to provide medical care to him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Betty, General Caldwell going on to say not only did Zarqawi mumble a little bit, but apparently, while lying on that stretcher, in the last moments of his life, in General Caldwell's words, he attempted to turn away. I asked General Caldwell, did he think that Zarqawi was actually making some effort to escape at that point. He couldn't really say. In fact, General Caldwell was unable to offer any of these details yesterday. He says he himself just learned them today in a way that he could confirm them to the news media after some briefings he has now had. So these details continuing to emerge.

But there is another fascinating detail that General Caldwell revealed today. The man they believe is already in place taking Zarqawi's place as the head of al Qaeda in Iraq, an Egyptian named al- Masari, they believe that that man has had communications with Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's number two man. General Caldwell refused to offer any details on that, other than to say he had information that those types of communications had taken place between this Egyptian and bin Laden's number two. He could not say whether the Egyptian had directly communicated with bin Laden yet.

Betty.

NGUYEN: Well, Barbara, besides what we learned in that briefing, do you know any more about al-Masari?

STARR: What we do know is that he is an Egyptian Arab. That he arrived in Iraq some time in the 2002-2003 time frame. It is believed he set up one of the first al Qaeda cells in Iraq, according to U.S. military officials, and it will be very crucial to try and determine whether he has communications with Zawahiri and bin Laden.

Betty, let me add in one other thing that General Caldwell was asked about Zarqawi's last moments before he died. The key question, of course, that many people are asking now is, in fact, now that we have this new information today, does the U.S. military know for sure that Zarqawi died of his wounds in that airstrike? Is there any information that maybe he died of a bullet wound inflicted at the last minute? General Caldwell said he did not think that was the case, but autopsy work is being done. And, Betty, we expect more information down the road. Pretty surprising developments today.

NGUYEN: Yes, that's an important question, too, considering the fact that he did survive the attack there and was alive for just a short while after that. So we'll be looking for that.

Barbara Starr, very good reporting, thank you. We'll talk to you a little bit later.

STARR: Sure.

NGUYEN: In another development this morning, about two hours ago a new tape from al Qaeda's number two man aired on al-Jazeera. On it, Ayman al-Zawahiri proclaims al-Zarqawi the lion of Jihad. The tape was made before Zarqawi was killed.

HARRIS: A celebration, caution and a hint of uneasiness. A range of emotions washed over Iraq as news of Zarqawi's death ricochet across the country. Today, authorities are on guard against retaliation. CNN's John Vause joins us live now from Baghdad.

And, John, I guess my first question to you is, would you describe for us the day after Zarqawi's death in Iraq.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Tony, it has been a quiet day here in Baghdad. And it's not often you can say that. One of the main reasons for this is a traffic ban in the capital and also the city of Baquba to the north. The reason why all vehicles were banned for about four hours, it coincided with noon prayers here. Because in the past, Zarqawi has sent his suicide car bombers into Shiite mosques, especially on a Friday, to try and cause the maximum amount of bloodshed.

The Iraqi government is on guard, bracing for any kind of retaliation attacks being carried out by al Qaeda in Iraq. So far, though, no sign of that, apart from a string of suicide bombings in the hours after word came out that Zarqawi had been killed. But today, so far, all has been quiet.

The question now is, what impact will Zarqawi's death have on the overall picture of daily violence here in Iraq? There is debate about this. And opinions are split. There are some who believe that with Zarqawi gone the number of attacks on civilians will decrease. That is indeed the view of the U.S. military, which has accused Zarqawi of targeting innocent Iraqi civilians, not interested in attacking coalition forces.

But there are those who say that the U.S. has overestimated all -- basically overestimated Zarqawi's importance to the insurgency, essentially demonizing him to making him out as if he was more important to the insurgency, saying that these foreign fighters were part of this global war on terror. But the hope now is, whatever the case, that this new Iraqi government, now that the Iraqi prime minister has filled these two key security ministries, that this new government will be able to move forward and at least start to try and end some of the violence here.

Tony.

HARRIS: I guess it's still pretty much an open question at this point as to the direction that al Qaeda in Iraq takes, isn't it?

VAUSE: Yes, very much so. We heard Barbara mention that this new potential leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, Abu al-Masari, an Egyptian, he could possibly take over. The question is, will he continue on with these tactics that Zarqawi had become -- had lost a lot of support over in recent month. The beheadings, the kidnappings, targeting innocent civilians. According to a lot of U.S. assessment, Zarqawi had lost support not just among Iraqi civilians, but also within al Qaeda itself. So the question now is, will this new leader, whoever it is, continue with those kinds of attacks or will he switch tactics and maybe attack coalition forces to try and win back some support? At this stage, obviously, no one really know.

Tony.

HARRIS: CNN's John Vause for us in Baghdad. John, appreciate it. Thank you.

A turning point in the war on terror, but which turn? Will al- Zarqawi's killing mean more captures or more violence. CNN's David Ensor filed this piece for "Paula Zahn Now."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): The air strikes that killed Zarqawi were a punch in the gut for al Qaeda in Iraq and worldwide. And the way U.S. officials say they track him down, with inside help from his associates, gives some analysts hope it could be a turning point.

THOMAS FRIEDMAN, NEW YORK TIMES COLUMNIST: It was a total inside job in that they penetrated this movement in a very deep way. And that can build real momentum down the road because, again, when people -- people think bin Laden and Zarqawi are winners. Well, they'll support them. But the minute they smell these guys are losers, they'll run away from them.

ENSOR: Zarqawi was not just any terrorist. A heinous killer, yes, but a risk-taking, charismatic one who will not be easy to replace. Though many may try.

BRUCE HOFFMAN, RAND CORP.: And I think there are probably doubtless, indeed, many others out there who are likely going to be inspired and motivated by Zarqawi's example and will seek to be the next Zarqawi.

ENSOR: Last year, in a letter captured by U.S. intelligence, al Qaeda's number two, Ayman al-Zawahiri, urged Zarqawi to stop the public beheadings, to stop killing so many innocent Muslims. Yet Osama bin Laden and Zawahiri publicly embraced his bloody reign of terror. Will they be sorry to lose him?

HOFFMAN: I suspect that with the exception of President Bush and Prime Minister Maliki, the two figures in the world that are the happiest about Zarqawi's demise are precisely bin Laden and al- Zawahiri, because Zarqawi has long been a competitor to them, a rival.

ENSOR: And he has been more effective in recent years than bin Laden, U.S. officials say, and attracting would-be jihadists in the Middle East and Europe. DANIEL BENJAMIN, CO-AUTHOR, "THE NEXT ATTACK": He has done a pretty efficient job of building up the next network after al Qaeda.

ENSOR: That next network could be homegrown would-be terrorists in Europe or in the United States, inspired by Zarqawi or bin Laden. No one is counting that out.

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: "Paula Zahn Now" covers the war on terror. Watch her show weeknights at 8:00 Eastern, 5:00 Pacific.

NGUYEN: We're going to get the latest reaction from President Bush to the death of al-Zarqawi. He holds a news conference with the Danish prime minister. That's around 10:50 Eastern today. You will se it right here live on CNN.

HARRIS: And coming up, Canada's Muslims in shock. Members of their community accused of a homegrown terror plot. We'll talk with one community leader who is not surprised.

NGUYEN: The race card flashes its hand in the bribery scandal involving Louisiana Congressman William Jefferson. Those details when we take you live to Capitol Hill.

HARRIS: And he says he's exiting stage right, but is Tom DeLay leaving the political arena for good. Hear the lawmaker's own words on this his final day on Capitol Hill. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: You know some say it was bound to happen, playing the race card in the bribery scandal involving Louisiana Congressman William Jefferson. He is vowing not to step down amid pressure from some Democrats to give up his seat on the powerful Ways and Means Committee. And now the Black Caucus is adding its voice to the ruckus.

CNN congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel joins us live from Capitol Hill.

Tell us how the Black Caucus is getting into the mix here.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are, Betty.

And, remember, Congressman Jefferson's office was raided just last month by the FBI. It kicked up a political dust storm here on Capitol Hill. He is suspected of having accepted bribes.

And his situation certainly does seem to be escalating, pitting not just the House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi against Congressman Jefferson, but also against a number of members of the Congressional Black Caucus, including a CBC's Chairman Melvin Watt. Following a late-night meeting last night, Pelosi failed to win the support of a majority of House Democrats and an irate Watt accused the Democratic leadership of applying a double standard. Telling reporters off camera, "when you start taking up rules and applying them to one person without any set of standards, then people will start to ask - well, OK, then why haven't you done that to this person. And why haven't you done this to that person. And if the only person you have applied it to is a black member of Congress, then our community will legitimately ask - what in the world are you all doing?"

Now although Congressman Watt did not name any names, it is widely believed that he is eluding to another corruption allegation case involving a white Democratic House member. But unlike Jefferson, House Majority Leader Nancy Pelosi isn't asking for his head on a plate.

Betty.

NGUYEN: I see. OK. So what happens now? What happens next?

KOPPEL: Well, what happens now is, there is going to be about a five-day delay, according to the rules, before the entire House Democratic caucus can meet again to debate and then vote on what happens with Jefferson. But I can tell you, Betty, that yesterday I sat down, along with some of my other CNN colleagues, with Nancy Pelosi. She is absolutely determined -- you could see it on her face, hear it in her voice -- to move Jefferson temporarily off this committee. The question is, what will the political fallout be for her within her own party?

Betty.

NGUYEN: Well, the question is also, does she have enough votes to do it?

KOPPEL: She indicated to us that she does. But again, this is a very delicate situation now that the chairman of the CDC is alleging that there may be racism involved in this.

NGUYEN: And let's just go to the theory that she does have enough votes. This still has to be approved by the full House, correct?

KOPPEL: Absolutely. This is really still one step away from removing Jefferson, not from his seat in Congress, but rather from his seat on the powerful Ways and Means Committee. If the Democratic caucus approves it, then it would go to the floor of the house for a vote.

NGUYEN: All right. We'll be watching. Andrea Koppel, thank you.

HARRIS: Despised by many Democrats, widely admired by conservative politicians, former Majority Leader Tom DeLay bows to legal and ethical problems and leaves Capitol Hill today. He's going down swinging. His fiery farewell speech prompted some two dozen Democrats to walk out. CNN's senior political correspondent Candy Crowley spoke to him in quieter moments.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Tom DeLay ends his two decade long Washington career in Tom DeLay fashion.

What do you most regret?

REP. TOM DELAY, (R) TEXAS: What do I -- I don't have any regrets.

CROWLEY: None. Not a single one?

DELAY: Not a single one.

CROWLEY: He wielded power in the conservative cause, lost it in a blitz of allegations and a Texas indictment on a campaign money laundering charge. All untrue, he says, lies from political enemies.

DELAY: It's all about winning. And we win, they lose. And they don't like it. And the Democrats hate losing.

CROWLEY: Democrats have made DeLay the poster-child for Republican corruption. By way of farewell, Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi called DeLay one of the most corrupt leaders in the history of Congress.

DELAY: Well, it says more about Nancy Pelosi than about me. The hatred is amazing.

CROWLEY: The significant chance that Democrats might retake the House has dampened Republican spirits as they head into fall elections. In a private good-bye, DeLay told colleagues to snap out of it.

DELAY: You've got to stand up strong against illegal immigration, stand up strong for fiscal responsibility, stand up strong against judicial activism, and then talk about the future and we'll prove all the pundits in the national media wrong.

CROWLEY: They call this an exit interview, but DeLay wants it clear, he's not leaving somewhere, so much as going elsewhere.

DELAY: And I ought to be out helping elect Republicans, helping defeat the Democrats, talking about the conservative view and where we want to take the country.

CROWLEY: He's not sure if he'll ever run for office again or exactly where he'll end up. But when he spoke on the House floor for the last time, Tom DeLay was headed the only direction he knows.

DELAY: And so with love and gratitude for friend and foe alike, patriots all, I yield back the floor of our beloved House and I exit, as always, stage right. CROWLEY: Departure a la DeLay, no retreat, baby, no surrender.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: All right. So we've been asking for your questions. You fired up the computer. The inbox is full and Gerri Willis, well, she's here to answer some of those questions.

HARRIS: Oh, wonderful. Good morning, Gerri.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning. How are you?

You know, from MREs to credit counseling, we've got your questions and now we're going to give you the answers. That's up next in "Five Tips."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Well, Betty, about an hour into the trading day. Get away day. Friday. The Dow up 18 points.

NGUYEN: Well, that's good.

HARRIS: You think we can get up to 11,000 before the end of the trading . . .

NGUYEN: Let's try.

HARRIS: Let's try.

NGUYEN: Let's try.

HARRIS: The first time under all of 11,000 since March?

NGUYEN: Uh-huh.

HARRIS: And the Nasdaq up 12 points about an hour into the trading day.

NGUYEN: I like that positive territory.

So offices have long had casual Fridays. We don't get to enjoy that, of course.

HARRIS: Right.

NGUYEN: So it's in the spirit of that, though, that we have Gerri's mailbag today.

HARRIS: Well, it's sort of like a more laid-back approach to "Top Five Tips."

WILLIS: Yes. HARRIS: It's like open lines with Gerri Willis.

NGUYEN: Whatever you want to ask. Go for it.

HARRIS: All right. You ready, Gerri? Good to see you.

NGUYEN: Be very afraid.

WILLIS: I'm telling you, it's the dream team. It's the dream team. I'm scared.

HARRIS: Here we go. The first e-mail comes from Jill -- wait a minute. I can barely see this. Hold on a second here. How far out do I have to put this thing to read this? How does credit counseling affect your credit? There you go.

WILLIS: Well, I'm telling you, it's a very big deal. Seeking the help of a credit counselor today, Tony, does not directly affect your credit score. But, see, there can be footnotes in your report that indicate you may have settled accounts through a credit counseling service and that you can hurt your chances of getting a mortgage with a conventional lender. Bottom line here, be careful if you decide to use these credit counseling agencies. Some of these are not legitimate. Even the IRS is cracking down on the industry. You want to try to negotiate a payment schedule or lower your interest rate with your credit card company. But there are better ways to get rid of your debt typically than getting a (INAUDIBLE).

NGUYEN: Oh, that's some good advice.

HARRIS: Betty, they're in bed with the credit companies. The credit card companies.

WILLIS: Well, I'm afraid we already are anyway.

NGUYEN: Yes. You know, from that, let's move on, shall we?

Gerri, Annette has this to say. She says my 20-year-old son . . .

WILLIS: Oh, dear.

NGUYEN: Are you ready for this? Would like to start investing, but we're not sure what to look for, how to start, et cetera. Can you help us? Of course Gerri can help you. Right, Gerri?

WILLIS: That's right. Annette, putting aside money that early will pay off big time. A 20-year-old who invests $1,000 in a mutual fund with just a 10 percent annual return, will have saved $56,000 more at retirement than someone who starts at the age of 35. Now a good place to start investing if you're young is a broad market index fund. You take advantage of long-term savings and you don't have to do anything. Check out Fidelity or Vanguard to find these low-cost funds. That's a simple way to do it.

HARRIS: That's good. That's good. All right. This is from Brenda. Gerri, is there a form -- I can barely read this.

NGUYEN: Get your -- you needs some glasses.

HARRIS: Where are my reading glasses. Is there a form that I can get or follow in preparing a living will?

WILLIS: Yes.

HARRIS: To whom should I give a copy? Will it have to be notarized? Also, is a lawyer required?

WILLIS: Well, this is an interesting answer. You want to go to Aging With Dignity at agingwithdignity.com. You can also call 888- 594-7437. We all know how important this is. You can also download a free cope, that's free, yes, free, of a living will at caringinfo.org. They also have a phone number, 800-989-WILL.

Now something you want to do here is designate a health agent or proxy. This is someone who will carry out your wishes if you can't. You will need two witnesses when you sign the will and they cannot be family members. And the good news here, you don't have to hire an attorney. Only four states, Missouri, North Carolina, South Carolina, West Virginia, require notarization. But you don't have to have an attorney.

NGUYEN: So that money I paid an attorney really is not worth it. He videotaped me saying what I wanted.

HARRIS: Could have put it to better use.

WILLIS: Well, you know, it's (INAUDIBLE) right now. Yes.

NGUYEN: Oh, well thanks for telling me now, Gerri.

All right. This from Rick. It says, the military uses meals ready to eat or MREs. Where do I get them for my family for hurricane season?

WILLIS: Don't you love this? Can you imagine people searching for MREs?

NGUYEN: Really. That they really want MREs.

WILLIS: Well here's what I found out. There are actually a couple of different kinds. There are military MREs. They're reserved for service men and women. But you can also get commercial MREs and they tend to have less calories if you care about that kind of thing.

NGUYEN: Do they taste better?

WILLIS: I did not taste it myself. Full disclosure here.

NGUYEN: For good reason.

WILLIS: But they last for five years if that gives you any indication of taste.

NGUYEN: OK.

WILLIS: You can check out mrefoods.com, majorsurplusandsurvival.com or theepicenter.com. Now a case of 12 meals will run you about $65 to $95. Make sure you ask about date coding because that's really important.

And, of course, if you have a question, you guys, your viewers, they have to write in.

Tony, I think you should send us an e-mail.

HARRIS: Very good. Yes, I have plenty of questions.

NGUYEN: I'm don't know if you want to answer some of those questions, Gerri.

HARRIS: All right, Gerri, that was good. That was fun. That was a little different approach to it, right?

WILLIS: Right. Right. We're working on it. We're trying to get there.

HARRIS: Yes, that's great. That's great.

NGUYEN: Yes, I like it. We covered a whole lot of subjects. And we'll be doing it again.

Thank you, Gerri.

HARRIS: All right, Gerri, have a great weekend.

WILLIS: Thank you so much. Have a great weekend.

NGUYEN: You too.

HARRIS: Just a reminder, oh, in about 20, 25 minutes from now, we're expecting to hear from the Danish prime minister and President Bush. Both men at Camp David this weekend. Maybe we'll get some more reaction to the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. When that briefing begins, we will take you to Camp David live.

NGUYEN: Also, a man dies, a family grieves, and the nation around them rejoices. A different perspective on the killing of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

HARRIS: And still ahead, the young Muslim's alleged target included Canada's parliament, and a broadcasting company and the prime minister. But are Canadian Muslims now the potential target of a backlash? We will ask a Muslim community leader ahead on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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