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CNN Live Today

Securing Iraq's Oil; Interview With Iraq's National Security Adviser

Aired June 15, 2006 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Some new developments to report out of Iraq today. First, the changing face of terror. Earlier this morning, the U.S. military showed this photo, believed to be the man replacing Abu Musab al-Zarqawi as the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq. He is identified as senior al Qaeda operative Abu Ayub al-Masri.
Also developing in Iraq today, what's described as a treasure trove of documents that reveal deep secrets from inside the terrorist organization.

Americans are paying three bucks are a gallon gas, and while oil is going to waste in Iraq. Plants need to be retooled, but first security must be in place. And that's just what Captain Giusti details is.

Here's CNN's Arwa Damon with his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With U.S. Army Captain Joseph Giusti, we're touring a 1930's oil-stabilization plant.

CAPT. JOSEPH GIUSTI, U.S. ARMY: This is all oil here. It's leaked through. It's a waste of oil right there. That's crude oil on the ground.

I mean, there's holes in pipes all up and down all over areas we operate in.

DAMON: When he left the United States, Captain Giusti says gasoline prices were pushing $3.40 a gallon. Now a world away in Iraq, he's watching oil go to waste in thick black pools.

GIUSTI: It bothers me a lot, because you see it everywhere. I mean, you guys saw it the other day on the ground. It was just -- it lays free there, you know. And there isn't a rush or an Iraqi pushing to get it fixed, you know. They're doing their job but they're not doing it -- they could do a lot better.

DAMON: Giusti runs security for this plant and trains Iraqi oil- protection forces. This is a training exercise he set up.

GIUSTI: So you actually the IED at this time. So over here to your left, you'll see the other element coming to re-enforce him.

DAMON: While he says he is able to see progress in the Iraqi security forces, that's not enough to get the oil flowing.

GIUSTI: It's not functioning at all.

DAMON: Each time he walks through the rusty skeletons of Iraq's oil infrastructure, he is reminded of what's at stake.

GIUSTI: Without this stuff here, without the oil forces (ph), the economy of Iraqi isn't going anywhere. It's going downhill. We owe it to the Iraqi forces. We owe it to ourselves to take care of these guys and square them away.

DAMON: And squaring away Iraq means squaring away these oil fields.

GIUSTI: We're making that happen for these kids. I mean, we're not seeing it. We don't see it in adults; we see it in the kids. That's where we see the difference in, and we'll see that in 30 three years when they're grown up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And we're lucky enough to have Arwa Damon here in Atlanta with us safe. We like to see you like that.

So you do a good job in the piece of talking about what the problem is. What are they thinking about for the solution, though?

DAMON: Well, the solution's actually quite complicated. And while we were there, we were speaking with the head the Northern Oil Company that's responsible for Iraq's northern oil fields, and he basically said the solution is twofold. I need two things -- I need security, and I need money.

KAGAN: Sounds simple, but those are two really big things.

DAMON: It really is , and it's quite -- it's a bit more complicated than it seems, because everything is so intertwined, and it's actually something of a catch-22.

Money can come from two resources, either the Iraqi government or outside investors. As long as the oil is not flowing, the Iraqi government really doesn't have the money to spend on rehabilitating the oil field. And outside investors are not willing to come in and invest in Iraq until the security situation is solved, and until the risk of the infrastructure and any kind of money that they invest being attacked again is pretty eliminated.

KAGAN: So until then, the problem and the chaos goes on?

DAMON: Pretty much. I mean there are, of course, ongoing efforts and no one is saying that, you know, there is not going to be a solution down the road, but it's a very slow process, even in just trying to establish security and training up the Iraqi security forces. I mean, progress in Iraq, on a day-by-day level is defined in such small, small, small painstaking steps. So on one end, that's happening. And then hopefully as that moves forward, the security situation stabilizes, and then perhaps outside investors will start come in.

KAGAN: And you'll be watching for that when you head next week to Iraq.

DAMON: Yes, that's right.

KAGAN: Be safe and be careful.

DAMON: Thank you.

KAGAN: Thank you, Arwa. Arwa Damon.

All right, we're going to take a break. An incredible story of survival and a man who has lost his leg in a climbing accident. He is headed back to the rocks, sort of speak, says his life is better now than it was before his accident.

We'll tell you more about that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Good to check the time in Baghdad. A number of issues coming out of Iraq today, and an opportunity right now to talk with the Iraqi national security adviser, Dr. Mowaffaq Al Rubaie. He's on the phone with me right now from Baghdad.

Dr. Al Rubaie, hello and thanks for being with us.

DR. MOWAFFAQ AL RUBAIE, IRAQI NATL. SECURITY ADVISER: Thank you for having me, ma'am.

KAGAN: First I would like to ask you about this stash of documents that was found. You believed that this might help lead to the end of al Qaeda in Iraq? Is that not premature to have that belief, sir?

RUBAIE: Not really, no. We have a trove of documents and data and information we have managed to confiscate before the killing of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and the -- on-site as well. We've confiscated some drives, documents, tapes and all sorts of documents we have. And also after that, the operation that have followed the killing of Zarqawi.

And this has given us the edge and also given us the upperhand over this terror -- evil organization, al Qaeda in Iraq. And we believe that these documents -- if you read the English part of it -- I translated it to English -- it shows how evil this organization is.

They want to divide Iraq into Sunni and Shia. They want to drive a wedge between the two communities. They want to trigger sectarian war between the Shia and Sunnis and Arab and Kurd. And even within the Shia, they wanted to divide them, and within the Sunnis as well. But it shows also this organization, how they are deeply afraid and fighting over the Iraqi security forces. And it shows also...

KAGAN: Doctor, you don't need to convince. I'm sorry. You don't need to convince anybody here in the U.S. how evil al Qaeda is. There is also news on that topic today.

The U.S. military showing a picture of a man they believe -- they're saying -- to be successor Abu Ayub al-Masri, that they say that this is the man who could be taking over al Qaeda in Iraq. Do you and your people believe the same thing, that al-Masri is the next leader of al Qaeda in Iraq?

RUBAIE: Well, yes, we believe that he might be chosen the successor for Zarqawi. But I can tell you, the power vacuum, which has been created in al Qaeda and Iraq after the killing and the death of Zarqawi, is huge. And al Qaeda now is suffering really seriously of this power vacuum. And we believe that his lieutenants are going to start jockeying for power, to fill in his shoes.

And, you know, it's a huge vacuum. Because Zarqawi used to have this iconic character. And he used to be characterized by ruthlessness and severity and brutal brutality. And that's why it would be difficult to fill this vacuum. And we believe that this organization will split and will divide into several organizations.

KAGAN: Also today...

RUBAIE: But if you read the documents we have released today...

KAGAN: Yes.

RUBAIE: And if you read it, you will see that he is -- the al Qaeda consider everybody has a (INAUDIBLE). And they try to incite war between Iran and the United States, between the Shia the Sunnis, between the Arab and Kurds. Between -- any -- any sort of war is good for them.

KAGAN: Well...

RUBAIE: And you will also see how are they frightened by the presence the Iraqi security forces. They were so surprised by the action, the swift action of the new government in Iraq, and they did not anticipate how this transfer of power and the way we have moved in to eradicate this cancer from the body of this peaceful country.

KAGAN: Doctor, I know there's a big effort by your government in your country to try to prevent civil war. And as part of that, "The Washington Post" reports today that your prime minister is considering offering amnesty to Sunnis or to others who perhaps attacked only U.S. troops. This, not surprisingly, causing great consternation here in the U.S., even talking about it and being raised on the floor the U.S. Senate today. Is this, indeed, the case? Is your government thinking about offering amnesty to those that attacked only U.S. military?

RUBAIE: This is not the case. I'm sorry to say that the prime minister of Iraq has been misquoted and misunderstood. He did not mean to give amnesty to those who killed the Americans.

As a matter of fact, if you were there in his meeting with the President Bush a couple of days ago, he looked the president in the eye and he said, thank you very, very much for liberating our country. Please thank the American wives and American women and American mothers for the treasure and the blood they have invested in this country. It's well worth investing, of liberating 30 million people in this country. And we are ever so grateful.

And we will -- the blood of the Iraqi soldier and blood of Iraqi civilian soldier is as sacred to us as the American soldier. We are fighting the same war, we are fighting together, and this is a joined responsibility. And we will never give amnesty to those who have killed American soldiers or killed Iraqi soldier or civilian.

What the prime minister is going to give amnesty to are those who have not committed the crimes, whether they're against Iraqis or coalition. Those who have -- still carrying arms and they might have probably done some minor mistakes in storing some arms or allowing some terrorists to stay overnight or shelter, give shelter to some of these insurgents. That's it. Basically, it's a goodwill gesture he's extending to the Sunni community, to those who have committed some mistakes in the past.

KAGAN: Mistakes, but not attacks against U.S. troops. And one final question. You've been very bold, sir, in predicting when U.S. troops and all multinational forces might leave your country. You're saying even perhaps the end of next year or perhaps into 2008. From our reports, American commanders are very unsure and uncomfortable with the idea of putting a date on such an action.

RUBAIE: Well, we're not -- Daryn, we're not putting a timeline for this. Basically, it's a prediction with -- this is -- we have a full detail plan for withdrawal of the coalition forces. It's condition-based. It's based on the certain conditions and requirements. When the Iraqi security forces are in the certain level of preparedness, of fully trained and in their sort of ability to control the security in the country. And also when the threat -- level of threat is lower, is low, and the Iraqi security forces can control the security and that can deal with the threat with that threat level.

And also when the government is in place, if these conditions are there and fulfilled, as we believe there are some -- some provinces, like a couple of provinces down south and couple of provinces up in Kurdistan, up north. We believe that the coalition forces and multinational forces can leave these provinces. Because real estate...

KAGAN: And on that note, I'm just going to have to step in.

RUBAIE: ... in other parts of the country.

KAGAN: Doctor -- I'm sorry, Dr. Al Rubaie, our time is short and I apologize for the delay with the long-distance telephone call. Dr. Mowaffaq Al Rubaie, the national security adviser for Iraq, thank you for your time, sir.

Well, just a taste the international news you get here on CNN. A lot more of that coming up at the top of the hour. Hala Gorani has a look at that -- Hala. HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Daryn, yes, at the top of the hour on YOUR WORLD TODAY, Jim Clancy and I will bring you, of course, the latest from Baghdad.

But also perhaps what is a less-covered part of the conflict, what is going on in southern Iraq in Basra. A harrowing look at a hospital there.

Also, we are going to bring you the latest from Afghanistan in an exclusive piece from our Brent Sadler. He is there, embedded with Canadian troops, trying to root out the Taliban, who have regrouped in the southern part of the country.

And on a lighter note, you know what's coming up next, Daryn, the World Cup. Have we got you excited about that yet? What you're seeing there are England fans. They're playing Trinidad and Tobago. And Frankly, if we have to find a way to describe this matchup, Daryn, David versus Goliath.

Can you guess which one Goliath is?

KAGAN: Exactly.

GORANI: In 10 minutes' time, but you know what, Trinidad held its own in its first matchup. It drew against Sweden. So who knows what they're going to do today.

KAGAN: Hala, you are so pumped about this World Cup stuff, I think in four years you're going to pay off one of the sports guys so you can get to cover it.

GORANI: Why not?

KAGAN: Yes, why not?

GORANI: That's an idea.

KAGAN: You'd do a great job. Thank you. We'll see you in a few minutes.

KAGAN: A very inspiring story just ahead. Doctors gave this man less than an hour to live. But this mountain climber rises to new heights after falling nearly 100 feet to what certainly should have been his death. You're going to meet him just ahead, on CNN LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Well, this is an accident that would have killed most people, a mountain climber plummets nearly 100 feet in Rocky Mountain National Park. He freefalls more than 60 miles an hour down to a buttress, breaks his back, fractures his neck, shatters his ankles, but he doesn't just live to talk about it. No, Craig DeMartino rises again to reach the top of one of the world's most difficult mountains. Did I mention he is an amputee?

Craig, joining us now live from Denver. Good morning. What a pleasure to get to talk to you.

CRAIG DEMARTINO, AMPUTEE MOUNTAIN CLIMBER: Good morning. Thank you for having me here.

KAGAN: After everything you went through, what made you want to get back on the rocks?

DEMARTINO: I think really, just it becomes such a part of who you are, and I didn't want the accident to just kind of define, OK, here he is, he stopped, and I just wanted to get back to what I love to do.

KAGAN: We look at this picture of you. So it's your right leg that you lost.

DEMARTINO: Yes, it's my right leg below the knee.

KAGAN: And how was it to go back and climb again? Did you have to relearn everything that you already knew how to do.

DEMARTINO: Yes, it was all kind a new ballgame, but I work with some really great prosthetic makers, and they helped me to kind of transition into it, and then going back to climbing. Just once I got my head straight again with feeling, trusting everything, it wasn't too, too bad.

KAGAN: Were you scared? Any flashbacks of the fall?

DEMARTINO: Yes, the first time I got to the anchors again, because I fell from a ledge and some anchors, and the first time I got the anchors and had to weight them and lower again, that was a little bit weird. But my wife was there, my kids were there, and it was a very safe environment. So it felt really natural.

KAGAN: Did they support you in this? Because they almost lost you.

DEMARTINO: Yes, they do. My wife is very supportive. My kids, sometimes they don't understand it. When we got to Yosemite and she saw El Capitan for the first time, she looked at it and she said, there's no way you can climb that in a day, and I just laughed. They understand it, but they're concerned, but they do support me very much.

KAGAN: Now, everything I read about you, in getting ready for this interview, not necessarily what you do, but your attitude. You believe after everything that you went through, that your life today is better than it was before you had this accident.

DEMARTINO: I really do. The accident kind of made me simplify everything, because when I was recovering, my body only had a certain window of time for me to do really anything. So it made me kind of boil everything down to essentials and get me back to prioritizing my life the way I thought it should be, and I've just kind of carried felt that simplicity through, and it's really served me well.

KAGAN: And let's not downplay the kind of challenges you face, not just the amputation, but you have pain.

DEMARTINO: Yes.

KAGAN: Your life has been completely reordered.

DEMARTINO: It's been totally reordered. And pain is -- I mean, it happens everyday, and I use medications to control that. But I think once you kind of simplify things and say OK, this is where I am going to direct my strength, it's kind of easy to follow that through then.

KAGAN: And this isn't just a journey you are taking for yourself. You're hoping to inspire others who have had accidents, perhaps not as exotic as your accident. There's people facing a lot of physical challenges out there.

DEMARTINO: Yes, because everyone goes through something. Mine's physician; some people are emotional. And I just -- I try to tell people, it doesn't have to be what defines you. You can move through these things, and it's kind of just a season of your life that you can move through, and it is a temporary thing. You kind of move forward through it.

KAGAN: What kind of response do you get when you tell people that.

DEMARTINO: Sometimes good and sometimes bad. It depends how far into it they are. If they're right in the thick of it, I think it's very hard to see that and see that there's a window. And they look at me and think, well, you're one person. But usually they don't have as many injuries to have, so it's kind of easier for me to say, well, you know, that amputation is going to be fine, or your broken back is going to be fine. They can kind of see that I'm talking from experience.

KAGAN: You a certain amount of credibility, definitely.

DEMARTINO: Exactly.

KAGAN: What's next for you?

DEMARTINO: Next month is the Extremity Games in Orlando, Florida, which is a speed-climbing event, which is -- I'm going to enter that. And then after that, kind of hopefully go back to Yosemite and do some more big-wall climbing.

KAGAN: All right, we wish you well and we wish you safety, a well.

DEMARTINO: Thank you. Thank you very much.

KAGAN: Thanks for sharing your journey and story.

DEMARTINO: Thanks for having me.

KAGAN: Appreciate it. Craig DeMartino, mountain climber, thank you.

DEMARTINO: Thank you.

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan. International news is up next. Stay tuned for YOUR WORLD TODAY, and then I'll be right back here with the headlines from here in the U.S. in about 20 minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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