Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Today

How Safe Are We?; Darren Mack Captured; Terror Financing

Aired June 23, 2006 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We'll get started. A lot to get to in these next two hours. There are new details emerging this hour in the alleged terror plot stretching from south Florida to Chicago. We do expect a news conference from Attorney General Alberto Gonzales in about a half hour. We will bring that to you live. Here, though, is what we know right now.
Seven people are in custody. Law enforcement sources describe them as radical Muslims. Some of the suspects are expected in court later today. The Sears Tower in Chicago and the Miami FBI office were said to be possible targets of the plot. However, we're told no weapons or bomb-making materials have been found in the raid so far. Sources say the suspects are not members of al Qaeda but perhaps al Qaeda wannabes. On CNN's "Larry King Live," FBI Director Robert Mueller said threats from within the U.S. pose a danger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: We actually are looking at a different way of attack that we're concerned about at this point and that's the homegrown terrorists. If you look at what's happened recently up in Canada and in London last year, July 7th and July 21st, you will see that they're homegrown terrorists that have come together without any orchestration by bin Laden or somebody else outside the country. Same was true in Canada. And we have disrupted a number of such plots in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: And, in fact, the FBI director is expected to make a speech at noon Eastern about homegrown terrorism. And you will see that speech live here on CNN.

We are covering this particular story out of south Florida on several fronts. We have Miami, Chicago and Washington, D.C. That's where we will begin with our Homeland Security correspondent Jeanne Meserve. She has had a chance to get a good look at the indictments.

Jeanne, good morning. What are the charges as you understand them.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, the indictment is interesting. I want to read you a little language. It says that this group supported a purported mission of al Qaeda to destroy FBI buildings within the United States. The means of such support included taking photographs of the FBI building in north Miami Beach, Florida, as well as video and photographs of other federal buildings located in Miami-Dade County in Florida.

The specific charges there are four of them. There are two counts of providing material support to al Qaeda. There is one count of trying to maliciously damage and destroy the Sears Tower in Chicago and the FBI building in Miami. And there's a charge that they tried to levy war against the United States.

Amongst the things this indictment says is that all seven of these individuals took an oath of loyalty to al Qaeda. Some of them, as you mentioned, appearing in court this afternoon. We're sure to hear more at that point.

Daryn.

KAGAN: What do we know, Jeanne, about how this all unfolded?

MESERVE: Well, the indictment outlines a series of meetings that members of this group had with an individual who they believed to be a member of al Qaeda. In this they talked a lot about their plans. There's one individual by the name of Narseal Batiste. And according to the indictment he said he "wanted to attend al Qaeda training along with five of his soldiers." It also says that he "detailed his mission to wage a 'full ground war' against the United States in order to 'kill all the devils we can' in a mission that would 'be just as good or greater an 9/11'."

Now in the course of these meetings, Narseal Batiste and others told this purported al Qaeda member what they needed to carry out their mission. That included boots and uniforms, bulletproof vests, fire arms,$50,000 in cash and cameras. And it was those cameras that they used to do surveillance on those spots in Miami. And they did then show some of those photographs and tapes to this person who they thought was an al Qaeda member.

Now in the end, it says, that Mr. Batiste said that he was having problems with his organization but he did want to continue his mission and relationship with al Qaeda. No indication in this indictment as to exactly why law enforcement moved when it did against these individuals.

KAGAN: Jeanne Meserve in Washington D.C. Jeanne, we'll be back to you.

Let's focus now on this warehouse which appears to be at the center of this alleged plot. Some of the men arrested lived in the warehouse. It was an ordinary, nondescript building. It's located in a poor Miami neighborhood that is known as Liberty City. The godmother of one of the suspects thinks this is all one big mistake.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIANE WEBSTER, SUSPECT'S GODMOTHER: I know -- truly down in my heart I believe that's a stone lie. I've known Narseal (INAUDIBLE) a little better than five years. I never known him to get into any trouble. I never know him to have any problem with anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Our John Zarrella has been covering the story since its broke and he joins us live now from Miami with more on this.

What have you been able to learn about this warehouse and this group, John?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, I am standing right here in front of the warehouse. You can see, as you mentioned, it's a nondescript building. No windows anywhere on this building -- front, back, or on the sides. The group themselves, we talked to someone who claimed to be a member of the group. Talked to him last night. And he insisted that they were a peaceful, religious group. They were not terrorists. Insisted they were not terrorists.

What's interesting, you heard from Jeanne, the indictment. Well, while reading through the indictment, some of what was planned was planned right here in the warehouse. Back in March -- March 16th, they met with this person who was supposed to be the al Qaeda operative and that's these men here met with him. And it was at that meeting on March 16th that they planned to attack, to bomb five FBI buildings, including the FBI office here in Miami. They also, at that point, asked for a video camera so they could do surveillance of these buildings.

On the 26th of March, they met here again at this warehouse with this alleged al Qaeda representatives. And it was during that March 26th meeting that they turned over pictures, they turned over videotapes to this alleged al Qaeda representative, showing different targets, possible potential targets in Miami -- the FBI building, the James L. King Federal Building in Miami, the Miami Police Department, and the federal detention center in Miami. So photographs and or videotapes of those facilities were all turned over to this alleged al Qaeda representative.

And it was at these meetings, according to the indictment, that these men all swore allegiance at that point to al Qaeda. So a lot transpired here behind this very nondescript, windowless building here in the Liberty City neighborhood of Miami.

Daryn.

KAGAN: So "Seas of David." That's what the group called itself. Why is it called that? And tell us more about this interview that you had.

ZARRELLA: Yes, don't know exactly why they called themselves "Seas of David." There's been some talk that maybe it's seeds of David. But last night, just before midnight, a gentlemen walked up to me and said, I need to talk to you. I represent this organization. I'm here to speak on their behalf. And he said that they were called the "Seas of David" and that they were basically a religious group. That this was their temple, using the word temple. This is where they conducted religious services.

Now other people said that they carried out karate classes here. They exercised out in the yard. They wore all black. In fact, they stood around out front of this building almost as if they were on guard. Some of the things the neighbors were telling us.

But this man insisted that they were not tied to al Qaeda. They were not terrorists. Although they did have affiliations, he said, of some sort with some other men in the Chicago area. Again, they are the link to the potential attacks on the Sears Tower. But still, Daryn, very sketchy as to exactly what kind of a religious organization they were or what exactly they were trying to accomplish here.

Daryn.

KAGAN: Well, and actually I think we have some sound from that interview that you did last night with this man who identified himself as "Brother Corey."

ZARRELLA: Yes, we do.

KAGAN: Let's listen to that and then I'd like to get your thoughts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

"BROTHER COREY, "SEAS OF DAVID" MEMBER: We have connections to people in Chicago. You heard.

ZARRELLA: Yes.

"BROTHER COREY": So it's like we negotiate to help the peace. We try to bring as many brothers in to help them out.

ZARRELLA: But you do have connections with people in Chicago, but not terrorists.

"BROTHER COREY": Not -- no terrorists. We are not terrorists.

ZARRELLA: But there were connections to other members of this group in Chicago?

"BROTHER COREY": Yes, we have soldiers in Chicago.

ZARRELLA: Why do you call yourself soldiers? What's the -- you know, if it's a peaceful group, why use the term soldier?

"BROTHER COREY": Because we study and we train through the Bible. Not only physical -- not only physical but mentally. We study and we worship that we have the sense of direction that guide other people in the right direction. We are not no terrorists. We come here every morning and we have the sense to go to work. We are not and (INAUDIBLE) homeless -- this is not no homeless shelter for a terrorist attack. You hear me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: So how long did that interview go on, John? ZARRELLA: We talked to him for a good 10 minutes and then he stayed here for a few more minutes. We asked him if he could give us a phone number where we could reach him and even asked him at that point for the names of his brothers, as he called them, who were arrested. He would not do that and he wandered off into the dark. Said he was going home. And that was the last that we saw of him.

But again, as he pointed out, you know the reference to soldiers and he kept telling us that they were, you know, soldiers of God. It's interesting he told us, also, Daryn, that they worked as -- they were trying to build a restaurant here. They also worked construction. And they ran this karate school. So a lot of -- all over the board really of what they purport was going on here.

Daryn.

KAGAN: All right. A lot of questions. John Zarrella live in Miami. Thank you.

Let's focus now on the alleged target of what could have been the attack. The Sears Tower. A Chicago landmark. Very inviting target. The 110-story building is the tallest in North America. The third tallest on the world. On a clear day like today, visitors can see four states from its pinnacle. About 25,000 people enter the tower every day. About 1.5 million tourists visit the sky deck each year. Our Keith Oppenheim is outside the Sears Tower with reaction to this case from Chicago.

Hello.

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn.

I'm standing across the street from the base of the Sears Tower. And I should really point out that this is normally a very well guarded building, especially since September 11, 2001. And we haven't seen anything out of the ordinary since late last night when this story first broke.

Let's take a live wide view of the Sears Tower and I'll note that building officials released a statement last night and the gist of what they said was that with their communication with federal law enforcement, that they perceived this plot as more about talk and less about a plot that was actually about to be taken into action.

We also talked to people on the street last night and early this morning as they were commuting to and fro and some folks were a little bit rattled by the story. But, in general, people were going about their daily routine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course you're concerned. But, you know, you have no control over anything that happens. So we have to do what we have to do, and that is to keep moving.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think if you ask people on 9/11, would they have done anything differently, you know, nobody knew. You can't ever predict something like that happening. So you just have to do the best that you can and hope that the right precautions are in place to prevent anything terrible like that ever happening again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OPPENHEIM: We're looking at the front page of the "Chicago Tribune" with a big headline, "FBI Sears Tower Targeted." And interesting, Daryn, the photograph just below is that of federal officials in Miami, of police there. And I think that underscores the obvious, that the action is in Miami. The reaction in Chicago, we're expecting more reaction from Chicago police later today.

KAGAN: All right. We'll look forward to that. Keith Oppenheim live in the windy city. Thank you.

We also, in about 15 minutes, a little bit more, expected a news conference from Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. You will see that live here on CNN.

Let's talk more about this case with our Security Analyst Clark Kent Ervin, joining me right now from Washington D.C. He's the former inspector general at the Department of Homeland Security.

Clark, good morning.

CLARK KENT ERVIN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Good morning, Daryn.

KAGAN: What do you make of this alleged plot?

ERVIN: Well, if the facts are as they are alleged, then this really is the ultimate nightmare. You know, al Qaeda remains intent on attacking the homeland and they know that we Americans have a stereo type in our minds as to what a terrorist looks like, namely an Arab Muslim from abroad. They also know that it's marginally harder since 9/11 to enter the United States thanks to tightened visa procedures. So that argues for recruiting among people who are already in the United States, native Americans, and recruiting Americans who don't fit the terrorist profile, which is to say Anglo- Americans and Hispanic Americans like Jose Padilla, for example, and African-Americans. We also know that African-Americans have been converted to Islam in prison. That's been going on for quite some time and a number of African-Americans have been linked not just to radical Islam but also to terror.

KAGAN: Let me just play devils advocate here for a second. Is it possible that reports of this possibly overblown? I mean you have a group of -- a very unusual group of men but really described as al Qaeda wannabes. No weapons found. No stash. No means of carrying out this attack.

ERVIN: Well, that's certainly possible, Daryn, and we need to keep that possibility open, needless to say, until we hear further from federal officials, until we learn more after today. And, you know, as you suggest, one of the things that's really perplexing here is, if the whole point is to recruit people who can blend in easily into the community, recruiting people who call themselves soldiers, who live in a warehouse, who dress in military fashion and act as if they're military personnel, is certainly not a way not to call attention to yourself. So either they're not terrorists or they're very inexpert ones.

On the other hand, there's a very high threshold for law enforcement to get the kind of warrants that were needed to execute this. So my bet is that this was indeed a terror plot involving radical Muslims that, fortunately, the FBI was able to foil.

KAGAN: Well, and it also brings up another interesting topic that we've been watching since 9/11, and that is the use of successful human intelligence since somebody apparently did infiltrate this group and then go to authorities and start talking.

ERVIN: Well, that's exactly right. And, you know, I've been very critical of our government's response to terror. But if, again, the facts are as we think they are, this is a very good news story for the FBI. And the FBI has a very delicate balance to tread here. On the one hand, they need to infiltrate those communities in the United States that we have reason to believe may be linked to terror. On the other hand, they can't alienate these communities because, again, they're the best allies.

So it appears as though, as you say, there was an informant here. And that, by the way, should give pause to any other terror cells in the United States that those among them may well be working for the United States government.

KAGAN: How many foiled plots do we learn about? Does the public learn about? Do things like this happens every day and the government decides not to publicize them?

ERVIN: Well, I don't know if they happen every day, but they happen -- they happen. The FBI director last night on "Larry King" said that a number of plots have been foiled. President Bush last year said that there had been about five plots and five casings that had been noted or foiled since 9/11. So this is a real concern and these kinds of things happen.

KAGAN: Clark Kent Ervin, thank you for your time.

ERVIN: Thank you.

KAGAN: Well, still ahead here on CNN, we will talk with former U.S. Attorney Kendall Coffey. We'll join him after the break, talk about the indictments, see what's really in there.

Also we're standing by about 15 minutes away from Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and his news conference. Stay with us as we watch the story unfold right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: One of the most wanted men in America has been captured. Carol Lin has details on that. Carol.

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, 45-year-old Darren Mack is in custody in Mexico. He is the man accused of killing his wife, who was found in a pool of blood in a townhouse garage, and then, shortly thereafter, shooting the judge who was involved in their divorce hearing. That judge is alive.

Darren Mack spotted in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, yesterday. And the circumstances, though, Daryn, about his arrest and how that came about are still being sort of worked out. They're not releasing that.

But here's a weird little point here. Apparently Mack told the prosecuting district attorney to call his family, to give his love to his mother and brother and tell them that he was in good health.

You know, officers who searched this townhouse back on June 12th found boxes of ammunition and an empty gun case with a receipt for a .22 caliber rifle equipped with a laser sighting device. Now facing murder charges and attempted murder, perhaps, in the shooting of the judge. Those charges have not been filed yet, Daryn. But he's in custody.

KAGAN: All right. Been released to folks in Reno. Thank you, Carol.

Let's show you these pictures now that we're just seeing out of Tampa, Florida. A small plane has landed in the water just off the coast of Tampa. There are the pictures. Very few details on this right now. We don't know what was the cause of the crash. And we certainly don't know if the people were able to get out in time. Or what the extent of any injuries might be. And we will continue to follow that. But that small plane in the water just off the coast of Tampa.

Follow the money. The Bush administration confirms it has secretly tracked some bank transaction since 9/11. Let's go to CNN's Bob Franken at the White House and see what that's all about.

Bob, good morning.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

Now we've all known, of course, that the administration and the law enforcement officials of the federal government have watched very closely and have concentrated a lot on the financial transactions, trying to disrupt them for a terrorist groups and alleged terrorist groups. But we're getting now with the publication of reports and several media an idea of the extent that the administration went to right after September 11th. They involved an organization that is called S.W.I.F.T. It's an acronym for the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication. In effect, it's an organization that keeps track of financial transactions, mainly international one, but others, some within the United States, that involves 7,800 banks and 200 countries worldwide. What we are learning is that investigators with the Treasury Department and the CIA in particular, but obviously involving other agencies, were able to get access to these transactions in many large, large pools. Now the government says that this was not data mining, as we know it. That it was not everything that was available. No trolling through the private financial records said the Treasury secretary. But, nevertheless, an extensive effort to monitor, to look for transactions that might be terror-related and to look for ways that they might be able to move against them.

There is quite a bit of concern even though for all along we've known that this type of thing has been going on. Quite a bit of concern in government that this has been disclosed now. Various people in government, including the Treasury secretary, say, "public dissemination of our sources and methods for fighting terrorists not only harm national security but also degrades the government's efforts." But again, this one has been disclosed. Again, remember the word S.W.I.F.T.

Daryn.

KAGAN: All right, Bob Franken at the White House. Thank you.

Want to let you know a couple of people we'll be talking to in the next few minutes. Former U.S. attorney for south Florida, Kendall Coffey, joining me after the break to talk about the indictment in this case. This alleged terror plot.

Also, the U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales holding a news conference in mere moments. You'll see that live right here on CNN. We'll get to that in a moment. Right now, a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Markets have been open about an hour. Not a lot of movement on this Friday morning. The Dow is up a little bit. It's up 15 points. But not even a percentage point. And the Nasdaq is down a teeny little bit. It is down two points.

And we will get to more business news in just a moment. Want to let you know that in a few minutes we expect a news conference with U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. You'll see that live here on CNN.

While we await that, we do already have our hands on the indictment of these people in south Florida. Kendall Coffey is a former U.S. attorney in south Florida who often helps us out on legal matters and he joins me by phone now from Bureau (ph) Beach, Florida.

Kendall, good morning.

KENDALL COFFEY, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Hey, good morning, Daryn.

KAGAN: As we watch them get ready to white balance the camera there.

Hey, have you had a chance to look at the indictment. Do you see any holes in it?

COFFEY: Yes, I've read through it and there's no doubt it was in the preliminary stage. These folks hadn't gotten to first base. In fact, they probably hadn't even reached the baseball stadium. But, Daryn, the law doesn't require that someone get to a point of eminent danger before they can be successfully prosecuted. And so it's really very impressive that these folks were apparently nailed at the talking stage rather than, for example, at the bomb-making stage.

KAGAN: Talking with some kind of government informant. And it's not really clear if someone from the group went and talk to the government or someone infiltrated. But where do these ideas come from? And does that really matter in these kinds of prosecutions?

COFFEY: Well, what's going to be critical to the defense is whether or not the prosecution has tapes. It reads -- the indictment reads like they do, in fact, have tapes. And the tapes are going to tell the whole story. If, in fact, they exist, they will have defendants on the tape basically discussing some pretty monstrous concepts like perhaps "kill all the devils we can," "This is going to be as good or greater than 9/11."

KAGAN: And where is the line between some strange people getting together talking about some really wacko ideas and actually committing a crime?

COFFEY: Well, the reality is that even if these are wannabes, if they are dangerous wannabes, because of what they are trying to put together is violence against Americans, explosions, buildings being sabotaged, then whether or not they're incompetent, whether or not they've got their act together, whether they're kind of goofy, that is about a serious a kind of law breaking as there is and they will be hammered.

KAGAN: So as you're almost leading right into my next question. A former federal prosecutor, from what you've been able to see in the indictment, is this a case you'd like to have?

COFFEY: Well, if the tapes are there, this is a very strong case because it's got a lot of specifics about conversations that are absolutely not consistent with some notion that this was a religious exercise, that this was just sort of trash talking. If the indictment is supported by the tapes, which I think it is, these folks were pledging to al Qaeda and planning the most dangerous kind of violence possible against Americans.

KAGAN: One change in procedure that we're seeing here, these apparently are, most of them, U.S. citizens and going through the regular justice system. We're not seeing the same way that let's say Jose Padilla was dealt with, at least at the beginning.

COFFEY: Yes, I think the Justice Department is responding to the Supreme Court message which is, they're not crazy about treating U.S. citizens as so-called enemy combatants. So I think we're going to see these cases go through the courts. And this whole notion of homegrown terrorism is sort of the reality now. I've got to tell you, it happened in Buffalo, as we know. There was a terrorist cell . . .

KAGAN: The Lackawanna Seven.

COFFEY: Absolutely. And yet been in Miami a long time, it gets kind of crazy around south Florida sometime. I have to tell you, though, I was absolutely astonished when I found that there appears to be significant evidence of a pro-al Qaeda cell within our community. I guess it could happen anywhere.

KAGAN: It absolutely could. Kendall Coffey. Thank you, Kendall.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com