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Possible Delay Again for Space Shuttle Discovery Launch; Spain Subway Derailment; Palestinians Issue Ultimatum for Israel

Aired July 03, 2006 - 10:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: The scheduled Fourth of July launch for shuttle Discovery in doubt right now at this hour. This is after NASA workers found a crack in Discovery's foam insulation.
Now, our Miles O'Brien has been down at Kennedy Space Center. He was there over the weekend for the launch that was supposed to happen Saturday, then Sunday. And back in New York City, we'll get a chance to visit with him in just a minute, and he'll bring us the latest on this meeting that is taking place in Florida.

But meanwhile, let's get to some other news. This from world news.

Osama bin Laden now has Iraq Shiites in his crosshairs. It's all in an audio message that was released Saturday on the Internet. And the CIA says it's really him on that tape. But it is bin Laden's fifth message so far this year and the first time that he has threatened the Shiites. Until now, al Qaeda has avoided criticizing Iraq's new ruling majority.

Then, there is this, a startling threat to the U.S. North Korea saying a U.S. strike on its missile program would unite a blistering response. The north says it would respond with "an annihilating strike and a nuclear war."

The saber rattling files reports that North Korea may be preparing to test a long-range missile. The missile might be capable of reaching the U.S.

To the south now. A nail-biter south of the border. The presidential election in Mexico, it is too close to call.

The two top candidates are both claiming victory. Voters were divided between conservative Felipe Calderon and the leftist, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador.

An official vote count is set to begin Wednesday and results may not be ready for days. That has sparked cries of fraud from the candidates' supporters and fears of violence. Regardless of who wins, immigration, trade and drug trafficking will dominate U.S.-Mexico relations.

Let's get back to our top story. What is going to happen to the space shuttle Discovery now that they have discovered a five-inch crack? We have discovered our Miles O'Brien in New York City to tell us the latest on this meeting that, Miles, I understand taking place right at this minute.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: It is right now, Daryn. We expect we might have a briefing from NASA officials maybe as early as noon, but don't be surprised if this happens a little bit later as they continue a discussion as to what to do next.

Let me show you right here where roughly on the orbiter this is occurring around the shuttle stack. This is the big external fuel tank -- you're familiar with all that by now -- covered with insulating foam. Right in this region here, the so-called intertank region, they call it that because there's actually two tanks inside, liquid oxygen up here, liquid hydrogen down here. The area between the two called intertank.

There is actually a pipe not shown on this model very well, a pipe right along here, and there's a bracket. And on one of those brackets there is foam that is hand applied, and it is cracked.

Engineers discovered this as they were going through the process of a routine inspection after two ill-fated attempts to try to launch over the weekend, both of them thwarted by bad weather. In the process of doing that, 500,000 gallons of liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen are pumped into those tanks, pumped out, pumped in again, pumped out. And in that process, because it is, after all, a very thin-skinned alloy, that tank, it causes a tremendous amount of thermal flexing, and the possibility for cracking is always there.

Well, engineers were walking on the base of the pad, saw a piece of foam, looked up, put two and two together and realized this five- inch piece, only an eighth of an inch deep, is in that bracket which supports.

Now, from courtesy of "The Orlando Sentinel," you'll see there -- I don't have a telestrator to help you out right this second, but if you look in the center of your picture and you see that horizontal bracket there -- there you go. Thank you very much. A little telestrating (ph) help there.

You'll see that crack kind of on a diagonal there. And the question that is being posed right now among the mission managers, engineers, the space shuttle team, is, is this at all safe to fly with given the potential for, number one, rust getting in -- rust -- ice getting in that crack, perhaps expanding and causing a big piece of foam to fall off?

So, that's -- that's what they're looking at right now.

I don't know, do we have Mike Cabbage with us? Yes?

Mike Cabbage, who is with "The Orlando Sentinel," the space guy with "The Orlando Sentinel," joining us on the line right now.

Mike, just give me a sense right now. First of all, do we know if this is -- presumably, they'll want to fix this. Do we know if this can be fixed on the launch pad? That's a very key question.

MICHAEL CABBAGE, REPORTER, "THE ORLANDO SENTINEL": That is a key question, Miles. And I don't think the answer has been determined to that yet. I'm sure that's one of the subjects that mission managers are going to talk about in the meeting that is going on right now.

There does appear to be some early indications that some of this work could be done at the launch pad. And there apparently is even some discussion about the fact that these cracks have been seen in the past and some missions have -- may have flown with these cracks in the past. But that's just one of the issues that's being sorted out right now.

O'BRIEN: OK. So, if there's some history with these cracks and they're able to determine that there were cracks in the past, and they know that those cracks in the past have not yielded foam flying off, do you think they can get to a point where they say that they are safe to fly with this crack intact?

CABBAGE: Well, the cracks that they had seen in the past probably occurred before the Columbia accident. And as you know very well, NASA's thinking about the hazards and the threat posed by foam insulation on the tank has changed dramatically since that accident three years ago. Whether in the current environment they would still want to fly with a situation like this remains to be seen.

I think, at a minimum, it's going to be a real public relations battle for them. I mean, here they have yet another chapter in their never-ending saga of foam. They're losing foam, and the shuttle's engines haven't even ignited and they aren't even flying yet. This is going to be something they're going to really have to look at closely.

O'BRIEN: And as it stands right now, the whole notion here, or the whole thought would be that this is probably because of the flexing of the tank that would cause this cracking. That's not an unknown kind of thing, is it?

CABBAGE: It's absolutely not. And as you mentioned, when you fill the external fuel tank with all these tens -- or hundreds of thousands of gallons of liquid propellant, it expands. And then when you drain that after a launch scrub, as was the case yesterday, in contracts. And this flexing back and forth causes some of this Styrofoam-like material, the insulation on the tank's exterior, to crack and sometimes to de-bond.

O'BRIEN: Now, just to help people understand here, there are cracks, and then there are cracks. If a crack occurs on the backside of the external fuel tank, you don't care so much about it. If it occurs on the front side, and, in particular, upstream of the orbiter, which is what we have in this case, you really have to pay attention, right, Mike?

CABBAGE: That's exactly right. I mean, if the foam can't hit the orbiter, then it's not such a big deal. But this foam crack is in an area not too far removed from the bipod area, which, of course, is the spot where foam came loose during Columbia's final flight three years ago. And we all know what happened then.

O'BRIEN: Yes. A piece of foam about a pound and a half in weight, about the size of a briefcase fell off, hitting the leading edge of the left wing. And, of course, that was a fatal breach which ultimately led to the loss of the vehicle and crew.

There you see what happened a year ago with Discovery. A piece of the so-called PAL ramp fell off. In this case, harmlessly. Since that time, NASA went back to the drawing board again, taking off that portion of foam, about 32 pounds of foam, a long strip of it, trying to alleviate that concern.

There still are some other areas on the tank that remain a focus of discussion and debate, so-called ice frost ramps which are associated with that same part, same bit of geography on the tank. And, so, really, here we are three and a half years after Columbia, Mike, and the discussion is hauntingly similar. It's foam, it's falling foam, once again.

CABBAGE: There's no question about it. Before the Columbia accident, no one really paid that much attention to foam because it wasn't looked at a flight safety issue. It was a turnaround and maintenance issue for getting the next shuttle mission ready to fly.

Since then, everyone has been paying much closer attention to it. And with the new suite of cameras and video devices that are all over the shuttle, we're seeing foam liberation, foam coming off the tank in ways and in places that we had never seen it before. And I don't think there's any question that this is a very, very serious issue that they're going to have to talk about before deciding when they're going to fly "Discovery.

O'BRIEN: Mike Cabbage is with "The Orlando Sentinel." He's the space correspondent there. Also wrote, along with Bill Harwood, the definitive book on the Columbia disaster called "Comm Check."

Mike, thank you very much for helping us out in this. Thanks for getting that picture to us, as well. We do appreciate that.

And Daryn, at this point...

KAGAN: Yes?

O'BRIEN: ... the official launch time is 2:38 p.m. tomorrow Eastern Time. We have not heard anything otherwise.

KAGAN: But, come on.

O'BRIEN: We'll look for it in the next hour or so.

KAGAN: What do you think? What do you think?

O'BRIEN: You know, I think Mike said it well, even if there is -- technically the engineers could get comfortable with it, there's still the public relations issue to contend with, as well. So I have a hunch this is going to lead to some sort of delay. That's my hunch. KAGAN: And if it does, when is the next window?

O'BRIEN: Well, each day there is a window. It just gets 22 and a half minutes earlier. Eventually, by the 19th of July, they're going to run out of daylight opportunities because it will get earlier and earlier every day. And they want to launch in the daylight, also out of concern because they want to be able to see any debris falling off that tank clearly.

So, they're not going to do night launches just yet. So, by the 19th, if they -- if it turns into a really long delay, it could move into the next window, which will be later part of August.

KAGAN: All right, Miles. Thank you for the overtime. Appreciate it.

On to Spain now, where officials there say that today's subway derailment in Valencia looks to be a horrible accident. At least 30 people were killed.

Let's get the latest now from Sara Velert. She is a reporter with "El Pais," the newspaper there, and she is on the scene.

Sara, what's the latest you can tell us, please?

SARA VELERT, "EL PAIS": Well, we're still waiting for someone from the railway (INAUDIBLE) tells us (INAUDIBLE) that the accident, how it happened, because at the beginning they took about excessive speed in the tunnel from the train that crashed, but we don't have an official confirmation about that.

KAGAN: So, this comes just days before the pope is due to visit there in Valencia.

VELERT: Pardon? I didn't understand you.

KAGAN: This comes -- this accident happens just days before the pope is to visit?

VELERT: Yes, it's the week -- it's the week that the pope -- the pope is expected to come on Saturday. But they are already arriving, a lot of people, to visit the town the days before the pope arrives here.

KAGAN: And why does it appear that it was an accident?

VELERT: Well, we don't still have the information, but from the beginning the authorities talked about an accident. There is no other suspect right now.

KAGAN: OK. Sara Velert, reporter with "El Pais," the newspaper there in Valencia, Spain.

Thank you.

Sara with the latest on that train, what appears to be an accident.

On to Israel, where it could be a do or die situation. Palestinian kidnappers issuing an ultimatum. And an Israeli soldier's life may hang in the balance.

That is ahead.

Also, he gave us fireworks on "Seinfeld." Now he is hosting the fireworks in Washington, D.C. Later on LIVE TODAY, Jason Alexander joins me with Washington's big party for the Fourth.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We're checking late developments on a story in the Middle East where Palestinian militants who kidnapped an Israeli soldier have given Israel a deadline.

Our Paula Hancocks joins us now from Gaza City -- Paula.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn.

Well, that deadline is less than 12 hours away. Now, the three militant groups who are holding this Israeli kidnapped soldier has said that if Israel does not meet its demands by that time, 6:00 a.m. local time Tuesday morning, then the case would be closed. Also saying there would be future consequences. Now, they're not specifying what those consequences would be, but what their demands are and have been over the past couple of days is for 1,000 prisoners to be released from Israeli jails and also for all Palestinian women and children to be released.

Some Palestinians took to the streets in Gaza today to support that call. They, too, want Palestinian prisoners to be released. But Israel has rejected its ultimatum.

The prime minister's office has said that it will not negotiate, there will be no prisoner swap. And we have seen the airstrikes continue early this Monday morning.

Now, another political target, this time it was the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade office, just a couple of doors down here in Gaza City. And also, we saw in northern Gaza early this morning some of the tanks that have been waiting on that border for days move into northern Gaza.

This is not the large operation that Ehud Olmert had threatened, but just a preliminary operation. A military source saying they just want to clear any explosive devices that are there and also clear any -- any tunnels that they need to.

Now, as for the humanitarian situation, for six hours on Sunday there were emergency goods that were allowed in. There was food, there was fuel. So, for that part, it does appear as though some things are getting through to Gaza. There have been some very serious humanitarian worries that fuel had not come in for four days, and generators cannot run if they don't have fuel. KAGAN: Paula, does it appear the Israelis have good information about exactly where this soldier is being kept?

HANCOCKS: Well, the Israeli security sources have consistently said they believe he is in southern Gaza. Many of the politicians have said to us they have a pretty good idea where he is.

Now, whether or not they know exactly where he is, that is not the sort of information they would give out. But they have been bombing roads around about southern Gaza because they want to make sure that the Palestinian militants are not moving this soldier around. So, if they do know where he is, they know he's going to be staying in that area.

Now, some of these parts in southern Gaza, as the whole of Gaza, is very densely populated, so it would be difficult to do any sort of house-to-house search, especially in a refugee camp. Once you go inside, it's very easy to become lost. And it would be a very dangerous operation for Israeli soldiers and for the Palestinian civilians inside -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Paula Hancocks, live from Gaza City.

Thank you.

Back here in the states, it is no picnic in New Jersey this weekend. The state government shutting down, and that is dragging on.

The governor, Jon Corzine, and fellow Democratic lawmakers still butting heads. Corzine wants to increase the state sales tax to close the budget deficit, but many of his colleagues say that is not necessary. So, about 45,000 state employees have been furloughed, including casino inspectors.

The casinos can't operate without them, so they've been ordered to close up shop on Wednesday morning. The state will lose almost $2 million in revenue for every day the casinos are closed.

There is a famous George in Washington, George from "Seinfeld," that is. I'll talk with Jason Alexander, who is hosting the Fourth of July festivities.

There he is with a beard.

Hello, sir.

JASON ALEXANDER, ACTOR: How are you, Daryn?

KAGAN: Good. We'll see you in just a minute.

ALEXANDER: OK.

KAGAN: We saw you practicing, by the way.

ALEXANDER: Oh, we're trying.

KAGAN: Yes?

ALEXANDER: We're melting, but we're trying.

KAGAN: OK. We'll cool you down in just a bit.

We're back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Things are on hold in Florida at Kennedy Space Center as we look at a live picture of the space shuttle Discovery. Earlier today they discovered on Discovery a five-inch crack in the foam insulation. And so, right now, a meeting take place to decide, what do you do? Do you still try to go ahead with the planned launch for tomorrow?

We'll go live to Florida. And actually -- can we get back that -- where we isolate the crack? Because that makes it easier for people to see what we're talking about.

There you go. You see the kind of diagonal, triangular crack there. Trying to figure out if they still go ahead with that.

A meeting taking place right now. We will go live to Florida in just a bit to find out what the latest is on that decision.

Meanwhile, to Washington. It is time to set the stage for tomorrow's Fourth of July celebrations. Looking at pictures from the Capitol.

PBS, again, putting on " A Capitol Fourth," a birthday party for the nation. Tomorrow night's show features a concert, and, of course, fireworks. And a new ringleader for the celebration.

Actor Jason Alexander joining me live from Washington. What a pleasure to get to talk to you.

ALEXANDER: Thanks, Daryn. Thank you very much.

KAGAN: Good morning.

Of course, the choice was, talk to me or keep practicing in the heat and humidity of Washington, D.C.

ALEXANDER: I am standing with you as long as I can.

KAGAN: There was no choice there.

A great gig for you.

ALEXANDER: Yes, pretty exciting. This is pretty -- I mean, you can see some of what is going on behind me, and there's -- everybody is here. We've got Vanessa Williams and Stevie Wonder and Michael Bolton and Cuba Gooding, Jr. And I am the only one I don't recognize. So we're having a good time. KAGAN: And, of course, most people recognize you as playing George on "Seinfeld," but you have a very strong -- you are a song and dance man, as well.

ALEXANDER: In my younger days.

KAGAN: Back in the day.

ALEXANDER: And they're trying -- they're trying to drag me back to my younger days.

KAGAN: And we saw you practicing earlier. A little -- a little toasty there.

ALEXANDER: It's a little hot. It's about 135 degrees, with a humidity of 200. And we have some thunderstorms we think are coming. It's going to be very exciting.

KAGAN: What do you usually do on Fourth of July?

ALEXANDER: I sit on my large bottom and eat hotdogs and have people attend to me. And it's very different this year. No, we usually -- we usually go to the Hollywood Bowl and have -- and watch the big concert from the Bowl and the fireworks there.

KAGAN: As an L.A. native myself, I can appreciate that's a nice way to spend the Fourth.

ALEXANDER: Exactly.

KAGAN: Well, what does the holiday mean to you?

ALEXANDER: You know, actually, more and more a lot. You know, we would be kidding ourselves if we didn't know that the Fourth of July, a lot of people have a lot of different feelings on what is patriotic right now. And what I love about this holiday and about this celebration is, it really tries to reach across the whole political chasm, you know, left, right, center, moderate, conservative, whatever it may be.

And all it asks us to do is to celebrate our mutual culture and our mutual history. And I think that at any given time that is something worth celebrating. We are still the greatest democracy on the planet. And I'm happy to be here and honor it.

KAGAN: And so when they came to you and offered you this gig, that sounded like, well, no pressure.

ALEXANDER: It sounded like -- yes, it sounded like a pretty good deal. Why not?

KAGAN: Good deal. But your family, I understand, has shunned (ph) you on.

ALEXANDER: Nothing has changed in my life.

KAGAN: No respect for dad.

ALEXANDER: Yes, I have -- I have one son at camp, I have another son who is coming here with his school a year from now. And he said, "I'm going with my school, Dad. I'm not going with you."

So, yes, I'm here by myself, but I have eight show girls with me. So it all balances out.

KAGAN: So not such a bad deal.

ALEXANDER: Not so bad, yes.

KAGAN: All right.

Well, we'll be watching. And for people who don't want to go out in the old...

ALEXANDER: Great.

KAGAN: ... in their own humidity, sit in the cool comfort of their own home and watch what's a spectacular show on PBS.

ALEXANDER: It should be great.

KAGAN: What time does everything kick off?

ALEXANDER: It starts 8:00 Eastern Standard Time, goes until 9:30, and culminates in a big fireworks display.

KAGAN: And we like to say we're full service, so for you, Jason, I have a weather forecast. We're going to welcome in Chad Myers.

ALEXANDER: Bring it on.

KAGAN: Chad, what do you have?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: You know, it will probably be hot.

(LAUGHTER)

ALEXANDER: Yes, good guess.

MYERS: I can cover that one, Jason. Hey, you look great out there, by the way.

ALEXANDER: Thank you.

MYERS: But there will be thunderstorms, probably 9:30, 10:00. So, at the culmination of this thing, don't wait for those -- as soon as it gets dark start shooting those things off.

ALEXANDER: Will do.

MYERS: All right.

ALEXANDER: Will do.

KAGAN: Best advise.

MYERS: Enjoy yourself out there.

KAGAN: No schvitzing, OK?

ALEXANDER: Well, I'll do my best. There's nothing to catch it if it rolls down my head.

MYERS: Yes, you and me both.

KAGAN: Thank you.

Jason Alexander from Washington, D.C.

ALEXANDER: Thanks, Daryn. Take care.

KAGAN: We're going to be watching on PBS.

Chad, this is why you get those big bucks, because on Fourth of July you go, "It's hot."

MYERS: You know, it looked so hot out there not, but it was only 82. And it's going to 91.

KAGAN: At this hour?

MYERS: Yes.

KAGAN: With what kind of humidity? That's always the key.

MYERS: 2.72 -- relative humidity about 65 percent. Oh yes. Yes.

Sit in the shade of the Washington Monument and sip something cool. Yes.

KAGAN: Which, of course, the Washington Monument, there's not a lot of shade.

MYERS: Well, yes, you get about 15 minutes, and then it moves away.

KAGAN: Yes.

MYERS: So you've got to keep moving around. You know what time it is. You become your own sundial.

KAGAN: Absolutely. What else you looking at?

MYERS: Some thunderstorms in D.C. today. They come through late tonight. But so far, for tomorrow, I think the storms stay north of D.C., even north of Baltimore, on up to about Harrisburg, into Lancaster, and also into Philadelphia.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: All right, Chad. Thank you.

MYERS: You're welcome.

KAGAN: Weather playing into this next story because there have been two scrubs due to the weather. But now the concerns for the space shuttle Discovery, something else. NASA techs have found a crack in the foam insulation covering Discovery's external fuel tank. It was discovered during an inspection last night.

NASA managers are meeting at this hour. They'll decide whether to do a fix of some sort, meaning another delay, or proceed with tomorrow's rescheduled launch.

Our Daniel Sieberg is live at Kennedy Space Center with the latest on the story.

Daniel, what do you know?

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn.

That's right, the mission management team is meeting right now. We hope to learn something in about the next 30 minutes or so, when they make an announcement of how they're going to proceed.

The concern is about a crack, about a four-inch crack, about a quarter inch wide, that is about here on the external fuel tank, as you can see right here. A lot of talk about the foam when it comes to the shuttle Discovery. Of course, you'll remember about a year ago a piece of foam did come off Discovery when it lifted off, and in the case of Columbia, of course there was a fatal hit of foam that caused Columbia to go down.

The concern is that this piece of foam has come off. There was bits of it that were discovered on the launch pad last night. They inspected it and discovered this crack.

Now, the reason for the crack, they're not entirely sure what it could be, but it's possible it's because of this thermal cycling. What they're doing is they have to refuel each night every time they try again. And, of course, there have been a couple of scrubs. And so they've had to refuel.

And this liquid -- or liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen is extremely cold, and in a sense it's pulsating within the external fuel tank and could have caused this crack. Now they, of course, have to decide what to do.

Do they proceed with tomorrow's scheduled launch at 2:38 in the afternoon? Of course, weather can play a factor in that, as well. But when it comes to the fix itself, the question is whether they can fix it on the launch pad, if they can go up there on a platform and actually get to this spot on the external fuel tank and fix it, or if they need to possibly take it back into the vehicle assembly building, which would require a lot of work? Now, there's no word on whether they have to go one way or the other, and no word on a possible delay yet. But we're just going to have to wait and see what happens.

Of course, this foam concern we're talking about, this is what a piece of the foam looks like. And Daryn, you'll remember that this has been an ongoing concern for a while now. And in fact, two senior engineers with NASA have talked about in the past that they were a no- go for launch because of their concerns with falling foam. So certainly, they're taking this issue very seriously. And as say, we should know more within the next 30 minutes or so.

KAGAN: All right, we'll be watching for that. Daniel Sieberg, thank you.

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