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CNN Live Today
Enron Founder Ken Lay Dead at 64; North Korean Threat; Missile Defense
Aired July 05, 2006 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: And the second hour of CNN LIVE TODAY begins right now.
Our top story -- and, by the way, good morning. I'm Daryn Kagan.
As we begin our second hour of CNN LIVE TODAY, the top story out of the West, it is Enron founder Ken Lay has died at the age of 64. Ken Lay, the founder of Enron, he was convicted in May of helping to perpetuate one of the largest business fraud cases in U.S. history.
Our affiliate KPRC reports that he was in Aspen, Colorado, and had a massive coronary, taken to the hospital, where doctors say that his heart simply gave out. This would just be weeks before he would have been sentenced on those charge that he was convicted of, facing 20 years to 30 years in prison.
Ken Lay dead at the age of 64.
So much of his life unfolded in Houston, Texas. And that's where we get this look at his life from our affiliate, KPRC.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Ken Lay is a former businessman most notable as the former chairman and CEO of the Enron corporation. Ken Kay and Enron became synonymous with corporate abuse and accounting fraud following the collapse of Enron in 2001.
Lay was the CEO and chairman of the company from 1986 until his resignation on January 23, 2002. Except for a few months in 2001 when he was chairman, Jeffrey Skilling was CEO.
On July 7, 2004, he was indicted by a grand jury on 11 counts of securities fraud and related charges. On January 31, 2006, following four and a half years of preparation by government prosecutors, Lay's and Skilling's trial began. Judge Sim Lake dismissed one charge of securities fraud against Lay on March 26th after the government rested its case.
After 56 days of testimony and six days of jury deliberations, Lay was found guilty on May 25, 2006 of all 10 remaining downs against him. The jury convicted Lay of one count of conspiracy, three counts of securities fraud, and two counts of wire fraud. In a separate bench trial, Judge Sim Lake found Lay guilty on three counts of making false statements to banks and one count of bank fraud.
Because each count carries a five to 10-year sentence, legal experts said Lay could have faced 20 to 30 years in prison.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: Let's get more insight now on that trial and the impact it had on Ken Lay and welcome in Shaheen Pasha. She is with CNNMoney.com, and she sat through most of Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling's trial back in May in Houston.
Shaheen, hello.
SHAHEEN PASHA, CNNMONEY.COM: Hi.
KAGAN: Talk about -- let's go right to the time when Ken Lay took the stand.
PASHA: Well, it was one of the biggest surprises, I think, of the trial. No one expected Ken Lay to be so poor on the stand. He did not come off as congenial, which was sort of the image that he really presented beforehand. And I think in this trial we really saw a different side of Ken Lay.
He was very harsh. He didn't seem to get along with his attorney very well. And I think that really showed with jurors.
KAGAN: Speaking of his attorney, he faced a setback, because today we focus on the death of Ken Lay, but during the trial his attorney had a big health crisis.
PASHA: He did. His attorney did have a health crisis. He had to take a back seat, which is was another blow to Lay during this trial.
Michael Ramsey had to undergo vascular surgery which sort of took him out of commission. And unfortunately, it took him out of commission right before Lay was scheduled to go on the stand. So it really was a blow for him.
KAGAN: A lot of finger-pointing by Ken Lay, a lot of blaming of things that went wrong for Enron to unravel like it did. But not a lot of personal responsibility.
PASHA: Not a lot of personal responsibility at all. I think to the very end he maintained his innocence and he blamed short sellers. He blamed the press. He blamed a lot of different people for the demise of Enron.
And he, to the end, said that he was Enron's father, he looked out for it. He sort of went down with the ship in a lot of ways, and he just did not take any responsibility.
KAGAN: But said he felt great pain. Looking up an old article, said -- he said, "I have achieved the American nightmare."
PASHA: Oh, yes. He said that, you know, he was the son of a poor Baptist preacher and he sort of worked his way up to become this corporate titan. And he said that at that point, when everything -- all these forces worked against him, that it was a nightmare for him and he, you know, lost of his money. He says he basically went into debt.
And so, for him, yes, he said by the end of it was the American nightmare.
KAGAN: So, convicted on all six counts, facing 20 to 30 years in prison. Was there any discussion there in Houston about why Ken Lay and also Jeffrey Skilling didn't strike a deal like Andrew Fastow had?
PASHA: Well, they said that they were innocent. They said that the only reason anyone else struck a deal was because they had been intimidated by the government and that the government had put all sorts of financial concerns on them, and that was the only reason that they pled guilty. So, they said they weren't going to admit that they were guilty to something that they didn't do.
KAGAN: And so they went to have their day in court, and they did. And it didn't work out the way they would have liked.
PASHA: No, not at all.
KAGAN: And so sentencing set for this fall. This won't affect Jeffrey Skilling's case?
PASHA: Checking with legal experts, they said that this should not effect Jeffrey Skilling's case. I mean, they don't even think it will actually result in any sort of a delay, even.
I mean, it was already delayed from September 11th, the original date, and they moved it to October 23rd. And he said, while there may be some chance that Skilling will try to ask for a delay on it, they don't really think it's going to happen.
KAGAN: All right. Shaheen Pasha, with CNNMoney.com.
Thank you, Shaheen.
PASHA: Thank you.
KAGAN: Our Ed Lavandera covered much of that trial as well. He's also in Colorado today. We tracked him down and have him on the phone -- Ed.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn.
You know, listening to some of the people you've had on here this morning, I was kind of struck by -- you know, in having never really had any lengthy conversations with Ken Lay, but mainly mostly with many of the people that were affected by the Enron fallout, not only initially back in end of 2001 and 2002, but over the course of the last couple of years, and what I heard a lot of times from people was, you know, I think people had kind of softened on their anger and their hatred toward Ken Lay a little bit.
KAGAN: How is that? LAVANDERA: Not entirely by any means. But, you know, one of the things that I think people always wanted to hear was some sort of sense of, you know, I feel sorry for where you have been. And the one time that I had a chance to ask Ken Lay some -- some questions, we were waiting for him as he arrived at his office there at Enron, and that was the only question that we really ever had a chance to fire off at him. And he refused to answer that fact.
Now, of course that was very early on. And I'm sure he has said things over the last couple of years, where, you know, he feels sorry for the people who were affected. But I always got the sense from people in Houston that they would have -- either didn't -- they didn't think that was genuine, or, you know, that they wanted to hear more of that. And I think that's one of the things that's probably sticking in a lot of peoples minds today in Houston.
KAGAN: Yes. One thing I was surprised about, he's in Aspen. So much was made of the personal financial costs to the executives that got caught up in this, including Ken Lay and so much of what his family had to give up. But apparently they still had a home in Aspen.
LAVANDERA: Well, that was the other interesting thing, too, as well. When they were going down the list of assets of what the family thought they were going to lose in lawsuits and that sort of thing -- and it's been a couple months since I've looked into this, so someone else might know better than I -- but I was always under the impression that the Aspen properties were at the top of the list, perhaps to be sold off to kind of cover, you know, family debt, and legal expenses and monies that the family thought that they would lose to have to pay out to lawsuits.
I was a little surprised that he still had that, although there is probably somebody else who would know a little better than that than I would -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Right. Well, and, you know, now that I think about it, the family did put out a statement today. And we haven't looked at that for a little while. So let me just share that with our viewers once again.
The statement very short, just saying, "Ken Lay passed away early this mourning in Aspen. The Lays have a large family with whom they need to communicate. And out of respect for the family, we will release further details at a later time."
Also, our affiliate, KPRC, reporting that he was in Aspen and had this massive coronary and was taken to the hospital. We don't know for a fact that he was staying at a home that he owned.
LAVANDERA: Oh, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We are on our way to Aspen now, so hopefully we can -- we can figure that out later -- later today as well.
KAGAN: All right. Ed Lavandera, on the phone from Colorado.
We'll let you hit the road and head towards Aspen. Thank you. We move on to our other big developing story, and the nuclear fallout. The world lashing out at North Korea's new defiance. The communist nation test-firing missiles that could some day carry its nuclear arsenal.
Here is what we know on this developing story at this hour.
North Korea has launched seven missiles. The tests include at least one long-range missile and six shorter range. U.S. officials say the long-range missile, a potential threat to the U.S. West Coast, fizzled just seconds after it was launched.
The U.S. condemning the missile test as provocative, but it says they're not a threat to American interests. And Japan calling the test "a grave concern."
The United Nations Security Council is holding an emergency meeting right now behind closed doors. We do expect when that meeting is over that the officials will be coming to the mics and making comments. And we will bring those to you live here on CNN.
First, though, let's look at the view from the Bush administration.
Standing by with, our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux.
Suzanne, good morning.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Daryn.
The White House is certainly trying to downplay the significance of these launches. We heard from White House Press Secretary Tony Snow earlier today in an off-camera briefing, saying that the president did attend a National Security Council meeting, but the subject number one was not North Korea.
He also made a point of saying that President Bush has not picked up the phone and called world leaders regarding this. This has not risen to the presidential level, but rather ministerial. That Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has been making calls, she has reached out to her counterparts in South Korea, Japan, China, as well as Russia.
Later this afternoon she'll be meeting with the national security adviser of South Korea. And, of course, as you mentioned, the U.N. Security Council in those emergency sessions to try to come up with perhaps a resolution condemning North Korea's actions.
But the White House is making it clear today that they believe that they are on the right side of this, that all of the allies here have made strong statements of condemnation here. They are very pleased with that.
They also say they don't want to get into this kind of trap, if you will, where it's the United States against North Korea. And that is why they are downplaying this. Even President Bush yesterday seen at his birthday party at the White House after this announcement, on the Truman balcony, celebrating those fireworks, to send a signal here that they are not going to play that kind of game.
We also got a couple of points of clarification this morning from Tony Snow regarding the long-range missile. One important point, he says, "U.S. Northern Command concluded that it was a launch failure" of that long-range missile, that that was not aborted. He also said that there is no capability of taking down such a missile 40 seconds after launch, just to clear up any kind of rumor or speculation that perhaps the United States or North Korea intentionally tried to abort that launch.
And then, finally, he also gave a warning here saying that, "Don't be surprised here if perhaps there are additional launches." That there are two to three short to mid-range missiles that North Korea has prepared for possible launch. They don't know what to expect, quite honestly, but that could be in the works as well.
Daryn, again, they are trying to downplay this, however, as saying, look, this is for the diplomatic community, the regional and international community to deal with North Korea. That means possible sanctions, diplomatic isolation. But that this is not something that the United States is going to be fully investing in on its own -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Well, what does this do, though, to the discussion within the Bush administration that's been going on about how you deal with North Korea, with hard-liners saying, you know, you really have to put the squeeze on even harder and have sanctions?
MALVEAUX: Well, there are two things here. And obviously, critics are saying that, look, this is just proof that the U.S. policy with North Korea has been an utter failure.
I mean, think about the objectives here. They have grown their nuclear arsenal. They have abandoned these six-party talks. And now they have launched these tests, these missile tests here, which President Bush just last week said would not be tolerated.
So, what is the outcome here?
What the United States, the administration is going to have to figure out here is, how are they going to pressure the Chinese, in particular, South Korea, in particular, to get tough on North Korea, to get them back to those six-party talks? One official saying, quite frankly, what other options do they have?
KAGAN: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House. Suzanne, thank you for that.
Now, let's take a look over at the State Department. And Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is meeting with the Turkish foreign minister this morning, and we do expect any minute that the two of them will come out and make some comments. And we certainly would expect comments on North Korea from the secretary of state.
When that happens, you'll see that live here on CNN.
And as we continue our coverage on North Korea, it's like trying to stop a bullet with a bullet. The U.S. missile defense plan -- that's what it is in a nutshell. But will it work in an actual attack?
Plus, international man of mystery. A closer look at North Korea's leader. His odd behavior and unusual tastes, that's coming up on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Looking at live pictures from within the State Department. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice meeting this morning with the Turkish foreign minister. They are expected very soon to come out and make some comments.
Of course, on a day when North Korea has the attention of the world, we do expect comments on that, and we will listen live as they speak.
Also, they are talking about this at the United Nations. The U.N. Security Council meeting behind closed doors. When they come out we do expect comments from the microphone there, and we will listen in to that as well.
While we're talking North Korea and this test of a long-range missile, the test was widely expected but intelligence agencies were actually caught off guard by the launch of the shorter-range missiles. Is there a reason for concern about that?
Here to explain is our national security correspondent, David Ensor.
David, what are intelligence officials hoping to learn about this entire episode over the last 24 hours?
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, they're -- they -- they watched this all very closely. An awful lot of intelligence assets were brought into place around North Korea, spy satellites and aircraft and ships that could monitor things pretty closely.
I'm not sure that we can say that they were unaware of the plans to launch shorter-range missiles. It may well be that they were aware that scud Cs were going to be launched and Nodong missiles, the medium-range missiles.
In any case, a large number of them have been, and there are some more -- as you heard earlier from the White House, there are some more that are set to go in case that's ordered. So there may be additional launches yet to come of shorter-range missiles that we may se.
You know, I think it's instructive, though, right now just to think, what would we be talking about today if the long-range missile, the Taepodong-2, had successfully fired and gone across the Pacific Ocean? What if it had hit Alaska?
Would the tone at the White House be as restrained and kind of matter of fact as it is today? Probably not. Certainly, U.S. intelligence officials were very happy to see the Taepodong fail so spectacularly as it did, going down into the Sea of Japan, less than a minute after launch.
This shows that the North Korean missile technology is -- there's a lot of work to be done yet. It is rocket science, and they haven't got it figured out all that well yet. That obviously is good news from a U.S. national security point of view.
One -- one commentator raised the question, perhaps half jokingly, but it isn't really very funny, he wondered how the director of the Taepodong program in North Korea is feeling today and whether he feels in any danger -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Well, not exactly great job performance, you could say.
ENSOR: Well, that's right. And in a regime like that, bad job performance can sometimes be fatal.
KAGAN: All right. David Ensor, thank you.
As the story continues to move forward, we are watching two -- watching for two different live events, actually. On the top part of your screen, in the top right-hand corner, that is the State Department. Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state, expected to come out any moment. We will listen for her comments.
And in the lower right part of your screen, that's the United Nations. The Security Council meeting behind closed doors at this hour, talking about North Korea. We do expect as the ambassadors come out to make comments at the microphone. We will listen in to that as well.
So, the question of what if -- David brought this up -- what if North Korea targeted, say, Anchorage or Seattle? What could the U.S. do about that?
Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, takes a look at missile defense.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): If the launch were an attack, could we shoot down the North Korean missile? A feat described as the equivalent of stopping one moving bullet using another moving bullet. There have been 10 tests of the U.S. interceptor. Only half have worked.
JOHN PIKE, GLOBALSECURITY.ORG: If the missile defense system was a baseball player and had a batting average of .500, you'd say it was doing pretty good. If it's only working half of the time, and it's the only thing standing between you and an incoming hydrogen bomb, you would say it's not working very well at all.
STARR: The five tests that failed, one as recently as last February, had various technical problems. Pentagon officials say those have been solved, and they are now confident the missiles would work during an attack, mainly because there were four consecutive hits against target missiles in 2001 and 2002.
But that was four years ago. Since then, much of the technology has been upgraded.
But one defense official familiar with the program acknowledges the major criticism, that the testing done so far is not realistic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All systems are go for launch. Stand by for terminal count.
STARR: That it's all been scripted out ahead of time, as most weapons tests are.
Analysts say the U.S. may still have problems shooting down anything more complex than a single warhead.
The biggest risk still may be the continuing uncertainty about North Korea's real intentions.
PIKE: And it's possible that one day they'll provoke a crisis, get in over their head, and suddenly we'll find ourselves in a shooting war with them. Under those circumstances, you might hope that you had a reliable missile defense because they might not prove completely deterrable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: And once again, that was our Barbara Starr.
Want to bring you up to date on some live events that we expect to be happening. The lower part of your screen, that's the United Nations. And we are looking on the other side of the door, where the U.N. Security Council is now meeting about North Korea.
In that meeting U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton, and also the Japanese ambassador to the U.N. We do expect them within the next few minutes to come out and make comments at the microphone. You will see that live here on CNN.
Upper part of your screen, that's the State Department. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice expected to speak there.
All right. Now back to the military angle.
Let's bring in our Jamie McIntyre, who is at the Pentagon.
And Jamie, when we're talking about missile defense, I'm flashing back to Star Wars and that whole debate, and if that was the direction that the United States defense was meant to go. JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, listening to Barbara's report about the problems in trying to knock down a warhead in space with another warhead, or a kill vehicle, as it's called, it is a difficult technological challenge. But the U.S. has managed to do it on at least five occasions during these tests. And of the nine tests that were interceptor tests -- that's where they tried to carry this thing out, and where they intercept the missile in space -- four of them failed because of things that were unrelated to the technology about essentially hitting a bullet with a bullet.
They were problems with missiles on the ground. Not -- probably not all that dissimilar to some of the problems that North Korea experienced as they tried to launch a two-stage or a three-stage missile into space yesterday and had a complete failure. But, you know, it just shows the difficulty of launching ballistic missiles.
The U.S. was using some older missiles that they were using up from their inventory. They had some problems with them. In one case, an arm didn't retract. Then they couldn't conduct a test.
So, the technology does work. Would it work if you really needed it? Well, the answer is, maybe. And one of the ways they would increase the odds is not by just sending up a single missile to try to hit the missile down, but maybe firing off two, three, maybe all 11 that they have if they really thought that there was a threat, and that would increase the odds significantly.
Is it 100 percent? No. They say this missile defense technology is still in development and is going to be in development for quite some time.
And one thing we should mention also, as Suzanne Malveaux mentioned earlier, there is currently no capability to shoot down a missile in a boost phase, when it's the most vulnerable. A lot of speculation because the North Korean missile failed, what, some 40 seconds into the launch, that is it possible that the U.S. shot it down?
Well, they don't have that ability yet, but they may in the future. One of the things they're looking at is something called the airborne laser, a laser mounted on an airplane that could hit the missile in the boost phase when it's very vulnerable, causing it to explode. But they insist that's not what happened this time.
The Taepodong-2 missile, last test-fired in 1998, they say failed this time on its own with no help from the United States -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Well, just in terms of development and financial support, what kind of support does missile defense have within the military budget right now?
MCINTYRE: Well, it's a very expensive program. Billions of dollars are being poured into it, and it has produced a rudimentary capability with 11 interceptor missiles now based in Alaska, two in California. Some new radars have been brought online. They have had some successful tests. And they're continuing to pour billions of dollars into the system. The idea being that, while it may not be 100 percent effective all the time, it gives you some capability, which in the event of an incoming nuclear strike would be certainly worth a shot.
KAGAN: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon.
Jamie, thank you.
As we move the story forward, we're expecting two live events. The top part of your screen, that's the State Department. We expect to hear from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. And the lower right of your screen, where you just saw that man's ear, that is the United Nations. We expect ambassadors, including U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton, to come out of the Security Council meeting and make comments.
You will see all of it live here on CNN, your most trusted name in news.
We're back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Two big stories we're working this morning.
The first out of Colorado, where we get word that Ken Lay, the founder of Enron, has died at the age of 64. Getting some new details now from The Associated Press, which talked to the local sheriff's department.
Apparently, they were called to his house in the Snowmass area around 1:00 in the morning. He was taken to Aspen Valley Hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 3:11 a.m. He was vacationing in Colorado while he lived in Houston.
Apparently, Ken Lay had a massive coronary, and doctors at the hospital saying his heart just gave out. This just weeks after he was convicted on federal fraud and conspiracy charges. He was due to be sentenced perhaps to decades in prison in late October.
More on his story ahead.
Also, we're watching North Korea, which defiantly test-fires a flurry of missiles. Here is what we know at this hour, that North Korea has indeed launched seven missiles. The test include at least one long-range missile and six shorter range.
U.S. officials say the long-range missile failed less than a minute after it was launched. That has sparked the most concern. Some analysts think it's capable of reaching the U.S. West Coast. Washington, of course, condemning the missile test as provocative, but says they are no threat to America's interest, and Japan calling the tests a grave concern. The United Nations Security Council is holding an emergency meeting behind closed doors at this hour, and that's what you see to the right of the screen. We do expect the U.S. ambassador to the U.N., John Bolton, and the Japanese ambassador to come out from behind closed doors soon and make comments. We'll show you that live.
The reason we have the camera up on the top right part of the screen is because that's the State Department, and Condoleezza Rice, secretary of state, is meeting with the Turkish foreign minister.
OK, so we will go to that in just a minute.
Meanwhile, President Bush, the eve of his 60th birthday, went to a Dunkin Donuts training facility today in Alexandria, Virginia, and he met with a number of immigrants. They were employees of Dunkin Donuts. He spoke to the employees about immigration, and here is that tape shot at Dunkin Donuts.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, thank you.
I just had a really interesting conversation.
First of all, this business is owned by two Iranian-American brothers. They are small business owners; they are entrepreneurs; they are employing people.
And then I met with the district manager who works with the two Iranian-American brothers, happens to be a Guatemalan-American citizen. She is learning business. She is taking on additional responsibilities.
And then I talked to the store manager, who is a Salvadorean- American. These people remind me that one of the great features of our country is that people are able to come here and realize dreams. And one of the problems we have, because our economy is strong, is that small business owners have trouble finding workers. People come here to work.
And one of the things we've got to do is to make sure that they have a verification plan that will enable them to determine as they hire new workers whether or not those workers are here legally. See, it's against the law to hire somebody who is here illegally. And we intend to enforce that law.
Part of a comprehensive immigration plan is to give employers the tools necessary to determine whether or not the workers they're looking for are here legally in America. And we've got such a plan. Basic Pilot it's called. It's working.
One of the reasons I came is I asked the owner of the business was the plan working? He said, "Yes, it is. It makes it easier for us to verify whether the documents a person gets are true."
And I also want -- so, therefore, I want this plan to be expanded.
When I first became president, it was only in six states; now it's across the nation.
But it's a voluntary plan. It ought to be a mandatory plan.
I'm strongly for a comprehensive immigration policy; one that enforces that border. And we're doing that by expanding agents and putting new technologies on our border.
But part of a comprehensive immigration plan is to make sure we have interior enforcement; that we uphold our laws and say to employers, "It's against the law for you to hire somebody here illegally. We intend to find you when we catch you doing it."
But we've got to get the employers the tools to make sure that the people who are here are here legally.
Thirdly, I think there needs to be -- I know there needs to be a worker program that says you can come here on a temporary basis and worker here legally for jobs Americans aren't doing.
If you talk to employer such as these folks, they'll tell you they need workers. And people are willing to do the work that others aren't willing to do, but we want to make sure there's a legal way to do it.
So I look forward to working with Congress for a temporary worker plan that will have background checks to make sure that people who are coming aren't criminals; that say you can come here for a temporary basis; that you can do work others aren't doing.
And that's one way to make sure that employers know they're hiring people who are here legally.
We need to make sure we help people assimilate. I met four people here who assimilated into our country. They speak English; they understand the history of our country; they love the American flag as much as I love the American flag.
That's one of the great things about America is we've helped newcomers assimilate.
And here's four folks that are living the American dream. And I think it helps renew our soul and our spirit to help people assimilate.
And, finally, we cannot kick people out who have been here for a while. So I look forward to working with Congress on a rational plan as to how to make sure people who have been here, the 11 million or so people who have been here for a while, are treated with respect and dignity.
I'm absolutely opposed to amnesty. Amnesty says you're automatically a citizen. That would be a mistake, to grant amnesty. Amnesty would say to somebody, you know: All I've got to do is wait it out; all I've got to do is get here illegally myself and I'll become a citizen.
That would be bad policy.
But I'm also realistic to tell you that we're not going to be able to deport people who've been here working hard and raising their families.
So I want to work with Congress to come up with a rational, rational way forward.
Again, I want to thank you all for having me. I love being -- I cannot tell you how I love being with entrepreneurs and dreamers and doers and people who are, you know -- people who are running things and managers and to be with my fellow citizens as we talk about a very important public policy. And that is rational, comprehensive immigration reform.
Thank you all very much. See you back at the White House.
See you at the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: That is the end of President Bush making comments at a Dunkin Donuts in Alexandria, Virginia. Now Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and the Turkish foreign minister. Let's listen.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: It was not very long ago that I was in Turkey and he received me there.
And we continue our discussions based on our tremendously strong friendships, our strategic relationship, our commitment to common values. I especially want to note for you that we will issue shortly a statement of the strategic vision for U.S.-Turkish relations.
It is, indeed, a relationship that has a great deal to contribute to regional stability and, indeed, to global stability.
The foreign minister and I have had a brief discussion of some issues of interest; the situation in the Middle East. I have had a briefing on some of the work that the foreign minister has undertaken to convince Iran that this is a time to accept the international community's offer to solve this by diplomatic means.
I want to say, too, that the foreign minister has been stalwart in his support for young democracies like Afghanistan and Iraq, and I thank him very much for that.
So we will have further discussions over lunch, and I look forward to many more opportunities, Abdullah, to be with you, as Turkey is such an important and strong partner of the United States.
Thank you.
ABDULLAH GUL, DEP. PRIME MINISTER AND MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF TURKEY: Thank you.
Good morning. I'm very pleased to meet once again my friend, Secretary of State Dr. Rice, shortly after her visit to Turkey. Since our last meeting, we had several talks over the phone and exchanged views.
We will continue our discussions over lunch, as she just said. And we will have the opportunity to talk further about bilateral, regional and international matters of concern, including Iraq, Iran, combating the PKK, recent developments in the Middle East, Cyprus and energy issues.
The result of our joint efforts (inaudible) will be in (inaudible) 13 July (INAUDIBLE) from the United States over there.
During our talks, I've expressed our gratitude for the support given by the U.S. to matters that are important for Turkey. I also emphasized my strong belief and hope that this support will continue (inaudible).
Our discussions have reaffirmed that our deep-rooted alliance is well-grounded; it's based on strategic partnership, cooperation and mutual trust.
We have once more confirmed our common desire to advance this relationship, which is based on universal values such as democracy, respect for human rights, the rule of law and principles of a market economy.
We once were confront our common desire to want this relationship, which is based on universal values such as democracy, respect for human rights, the rule of law and the economy.
KAGAN: We're going to continue to listen in here. That's Abdullah Gul, the foreign minister for Turkey. We are also listening to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, hoping to hear some kind of comment about what's been happening with North Korea. We'll continue to monitor what they have to say and bring you any pertinent comments as necessary.
Meanwhile, let's get to our other breaking news story, and that is the shocking death of Ken Lay. The Enron founder died overnight. He was on vacation in Aspen, Colorado. Had a heart attack, apparently in the middle of the night, and was taken to a local hospital where doctors declared him dead about 3:00 this morning.
Turns out our Wolf Blitzer, even when he takes vacation, follows news, because Wolf also on vacation in Aspen, Colorado. And Wolf's doing what does, going right to work on a big news story. Wolf Blitzer joining me on the phone now from Aspen, Colorado.
Wolf, what have you been able to learn about the death of Ken Lay?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Daryn, I drove over to the Aspen hospital, it's called the Aspen Valley Hospital, just a little while ago and spoke with one of the administrators there. They gave me a statement that had just been released by the Pitkin County Sheriff's Office. Pitkin County is where Aspen is located here in Colorado. And let me be precise and read the statement. It's the director of investigations, Joe DeSalvo (ph), released it. It goes like this: "On July 5, 2006, 1:41 a.m., Pitkin County deputies and Basalt (ph) ambulance were dispatched to the old Snowmass, Colorado, home of Kenneth Lay -- Kenneth Lee Lay -- age 64, for a medical emergency. Mr. Lay was transported to the Aspen Valley Hospital, where he was pronounced..."
KAGAN: Wolf, hold that thought. I want to get back to Condoleezza Rice talking about North Korea.
RICE: ... that their actions are having. And the effect is that they are being, throughout the world -- of course in the region, but also at NATO, we've had expressions from countries all over the world of concern about this provocation that the North Koreans have engaged in. Concern that I think is being expressed now in the Security Council. I believe the meeting is going on as we speak.
And it simply demonstrates that the North Koreans, if they may have -- I perhaps have miscalculated that the international community would remain united. But, in fact, there has been a very strong response to their actions. So whatever their motivations, whatever they thought they were doing, they've gotten a strong reaction from the international community.
As to the six-party talks, what the six-party talks provide is now a diplomatic infrastructure that can be used to resolve problems of this kind. And it would still be incumbent on the North Koreans to use that kind of infrastructure to address these issues.
I might note that Chris Hill will soon be talking with his counterparts from the six-party talks in the region. And that simply demonstrates that the wisdom of the six-party framework is that it is now not a matter of the United States and North Korea; it is really a matter of the region saying to North Korea that it has to change its behavior.
As to what steps will be taken to reverse North Korean behavior, to address the nuclear issue and the missile issue, that's what we're going to be talking about over the next couple of days. But, of course, the international community does have at its disposal a number of tools to make it more difficult for North Korea to engage in this kind of brinksmanship and to engage in the continued pursuit of its nuclear weapons programs and of its missile programs.
QUESTION: Why do the United States and Turkey need a strategic region document? Why now? And what's the importance of this document for both countries?
KAGAN: So we've heard the comments that we were waiting to hear from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, talking about these missile test launches from North Korea. The secretary of state saying she believes the proper road is still to continue with these six-party talks with North Korea, encouraging them very strongly to give up their nuclear ambitions. We're also waiting to hear from the Security Council, U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton; the Japanese ambassador. All in that Security Council meeting. We're hearing its wrapping up. And expecting them to be coming out and to the microphones. When they do, we will listen in live.
While we wait for that, let's go ahead and bring in senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth, who is there at the U.N.
Richard, any idea about what happened behind those closed doors?
RICHARD ROTH, SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: No. Probably informally discussed aspects of a potential Security Council resolution backed by the United States, Japan and Britain, one which would call on nations to demand that they stop funding or shipment involving technology, anything for North Korea's potential missile program and its use. Also, the resolution would condemn North Korea for the missile launch, call on it to cease such activity; return to a moratorium on missiles something they had agreed to twice in the last six or eight years, and return to those six-party talks that we just heard Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice refer to.
The strongest part of that resolution would be a measure to call off and cut off funding for materials and money which could be used in missile production. Earlier, U.S. ambassador to the U.N., John Bolton, told reporters what he wants the U.N. to do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMB. JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: This is obviously a very serious matter, because of the North Korean provocation. But this is precisely what the Security Council is designed to handle, and we hope the council will rise to the occasion. We think we can proceed in a calm and deliberate fashion. But we hope we have a strong and unanimous signal from the Council that this kind of behavior is unacceptable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: If there is a bid to get tough and to potentially move to anything that seems like sanctions, the nation of China will be the toughest obstacle for the United States. China's ambassador talked to the press about his country's view on the resolution and the state of affairs with North Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course, first of all, I have to say that what happened yesterday was certainly a regret. We are concerned about what happened yesterday. But I think that as for what the Security Council will do, certainly I think -- this is not the first time that...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: And, as we were saying, the U.N. Security Council just wrapping up. Let's listen into the ambassadors.
KENZO OSHIMA, JAPANESE AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Last night I wrote a letter to the president of the Security Council asking for an immediate meeting of the council to discuss the matter of a missile launch by the DPRK.
The council met and had a round of discussion this morning. The missile launch by DPRK eight years ago, in 1998, was serious enough, was bad enough. But the seven launches of missiles this time -- and there may be more -- is far more serious.
Subsequent to 1998, the DPRK withdrew -- it announced it's intention to withdraw from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and then subsequently declared its intention to possess nuclear weapons. So the possible combination of nuclear weapons with missile development and testing really bring this matter to a much more different level than it was in 1998.
And it is in that context that my government brought this issue to the council for a quick, strong action. And the council had a discussion and I indicated that we would like the council to adopt a resolution and proposed that discussions start immediately.
So this afternoon discussion on the draft will start at expert- level, and hopefully it will reach an early agreement of the text.
We are working very, very closely with United States, the countries in the region and members of the six-party talks, the United Kingdom and other countries in the region and beyond who are all very deeply concerned about this unacceptable situation.
It is also a matter of regret that the DPRK did move to this action despite its commitment -- moratorium -- that it entered into between Japan and DPRK and as stated in the communique of the six- party talks issued in 2005.
So all these considerations should go into the consideration of a response from the council.
We hope the response of the council will be swift, strong and resolute. I think this is the general wish, as I heard it, this morning in the council, of the members.
Thank you.
EMYR JONES PARRY, UNITED KINGDOM AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: I thought all members of the council expressed clear concern about what happened. There's a strong view that we should respond quickly, that we should preferably retain a united council, and that we should be robust in what we say.
And that's what we will now be working for.
AMBASSADOR JOHN R. BOLTON, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: I concur entirely with what Ambassador Oshima and Ambassador Jones Parry have just said. I think the preliminary discussion in the Security Council this morning was very interesting because no member defended what the North Koreans have done.
And I think that the tenor of that discussion shows how little support there is in the international community as a whole for these North Korean missile launches.
We will now begin discussion, as Ambassador Oshima said, of their draft resolution and proceed in a deliberate fashion, hoping to reach agreement on it at an early date.
QUESTION: Over the years, China has resisted any action on North Korea in the Security Council.
Do you have any reason to believe that the situation is different and that China would even potentially support some form of sanctions?
BOLTON: Well, I think we're not in a position to discuss that right now. I think it's important that we proceed in a careful fashion through this. The circumstance is obviously different when North Korea launches seven, at least, ballistic missiles.
So we'll have our experts discussion this afternoon.
As I think all of you know, I never predict the timing of Security Council action. But by the tenor of the statements of all of the council members, I think there is support for sending a clear signal to Pyongyang, and we'll proceed to see if we can't get that done in the next few days.
QUESTION: Does Japan, does the U.S., want to see some sort of sanctions against North Korea, such as withholding funds, withholding materials that could be used for missile technology? Can you expand on this idea?
OSHIMA: As far as Japan is concerned, on a bilateral basis, the government has announced a series of measures against North Korea, such as a ban on the entry of North Korean ships into Japanese ports and a ban on travels of officials of North Korea to Japan.
So these measures have already been taken.
Whether the Security Council in its response will decide on something that relates to certain such measures is something I don't think I'm able to say anything clear about it. It may be discussed.
But that, of course, is up to the council.
QUESTION: Ambassador...
QUESTION: What do you...
QUESTION: What do you expect the results...
OSHIMA: Well, clearly I think whatever response will have to say clear and strong condemnation of the missile launches. And it should also mention the concern -- very deep concerns -- of the international community over the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction missiles.
QUESTION: Ambassador Bolton, is the U.S. still considering employing a missile defense program if North Korea were to launch another long-range missile -- to shoot it down mid-air?
BOLTON: Well, let me make this the last question-and-answer. I think that what North Korea did yesterday shows the wisdom and leadership that President Bush displayed in 2001 in moving beyond the 1972 ABM Treaty and relieving us from the antiquated restraints of that treaty; and of his efforts to develop an effective limited missile defense system to guard against attacks from rogue states and accidental launches.
So in that sense, I think we've been on the right course, clearly, for the last six years.
Now we all have a lot of work to do. Appreciate it. I'm sure we'll be back, too.
Thank you very much.
KAGAN: U.S. ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton, also the ambassador from Japan, and also from Britain condemning North Korea for the seven missile tests that we know of so far taking place over the last day. They just came out of the Security Council meeting at the United Nations talking about this resolution that they will now try to draft that they say hopefully will be a swift and strong response to North Korea.
More on that just ahead. Also more on the death of Enron founder Ken Lay. That happening today in Aspen, Colorado.
We'll get to that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Let's join our sister network, CNN International, as they continue our coverage of the North Korean missile situation.
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