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CNN Live Today

Airline Terror Plot; Bojinka 2?; U.N. Security Council 'Very, Very Close' to Agreement on Mideast Conflict

Aired August 11, 2006 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to our second hour of CNN LIVE TODAY.
I'm Daryn Kagan.

Let's get started with new details this morning about the alleged airline terror plot.

Here is what we know at the top of the hour.

A possible -- possible al Qaeda connection. Officials in Britain and the U.S. tell CNN two plot suspects may have been in contact with a Pakistani operative. That operative is thought to be a member of al Qaeda.

British authorities have identified 19 of 24 suspects that they're holding. Many have names that are common in Pakistan.

And airline travelers here in the United States are facing a second day of carry-on restrictions and some delays.

Remember, if you're headed to the airport, no gels, liquids or lotions.

Let's get more on the investigation with our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, with us here in Atlanta today.

Tell us about this character Matiur Rehman.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

KAGAN: What do we know about him, and how does he play?

ARENA: He is current at large. He is described as an explosives expert. Some say that he is an al Qaeda operative. Al Qaeda, though, meaning different things these days.

KAGAN: Right.

ARENA: You know, you can be connected to al Qaeda.

And there were two suspects from this group, according to U.S. officials, that traveled to Pakistan and met with him. So his involvement in this not clear right now. That investigation very much ongoing. Whether he'll emerge as a big figure here or a minor player, we don't know. KAGAN: But that's concerning that he's still at large, we don't know where he is.

ARENA: Well, yes. And there are several people. He's not the only one.

KAGAN: No, that's true.

ARENA: I mean, they say that they're looking for a handful of people. That number very flexible. As this investigation goes forward and more tips and leads come in, that number, you know, goes up, goes down as they clear people or as people become more interesting.

So this is all -- so there are -- I mean, we've been told, you know, it could be at least five, you know, maybe more.

KAGAN: Let's talk about this al Qaeda connection. First of all, you were saying this particular man, he might be al Qaeda. But just even that definition is a little bit fluid.

ARENA: It has changed, changed over the past five years. I mean, you had to, you know, pledge allegiance to Osama bin Laden, go to a training camp in Afghanistan. Not anymore.

You have, as we've discussed before, Daryn, homegrown terrorists. I mean, a lot of these guys were born and raised in Britain. They, you know, probably never, you know, went overseas to train, didn't pledge (INAUDIBLE).

So, the whole -- the whole definition, when you talk to intelligence specialists and they say "al Qaeda," what does that mean? Does that mean it's someone that shares an ideology with bin Laden and was inspired by him? Does it mean that they belong to another group like Jemaah Islamiyah or Lashkar-e-Taiba, and are affiliated with al Qaeda? Or does it mean that, you know, these are people who are, like, you know, Ayman al-Zawahiri, al Qaeda's number two?

It spans that whole spectrum.

KAGAN: This is -- this is clearly a trend. We saw it with the subway bombings last year, that these are second and third generation young men...

ARENA: Yes. Yes.

KAGAN: ... British citizens, which makes it much more difficult to weed them out.

What do officials say about that? And how more difficult it makes their job?

ARENA: It's like deja vu, isn't it? I mean, we could have had this same conversation last summer after the attacks in London. Right? Everyone said, "Oh, my god, so it's so shocking." These were kids that were part of the community. You know, no one had an inkling that they were up to anything.

At least in this case, according to officials that we've spoken to, there was a person who came forward from the community and said, hey, I've got an acquaintance here who's acting odd. Of course, everyone is on edge after, you know, the July bombings last year.

KAGAN: Right.

ARENA: He said you should look at this guy.

KAGAN: And it was that tip that started this whole investigation?

ARENA: It was that tip that started this investigation. But this is very much a trend. I mean, look at what happened here in Miami. You know, they had people who were American, who were sort of drawn in by that ideology. And that ideology is available everywhere.

It's on the Web. It's -- I mean, you know...

KAGAN: Right. Although, what we saw in south Florida, clearly not of a level of sophistication...

ARENA: No. No, no, no.

KAGAN: ... of what we're talking about unveiled.

ARENA: This -- according to everybody, you know, this was ready to go operational.

KAGAN: Yes. All right.

Kelli Arena, thank you for the latest on that.

ARENA: You're welcome.

KAGAN: Well, the similarities are striking. This alleged conspiracy looks a lot like a plot that was hatched by al Qaeda 12 years ago.

CNN's Joe Johns takes a look at that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It was 1994, years before destruction of the World Trade Center. The so-called "Bojinka Project," to blow up a dozen planes in the air, was, for a time, the most twisted terrorist operation ever uncovered. Chillingly similar to Thursday's alleged plot, adding to speculation that the same group was behind both.

TIM ROEMER, FMR. 9/11 COMMISSIONER: It was the kind of al Qaeda signature: spectacular, synchronized planning, explosive devices. JOHNS: The name "Bojinka" was adopted by al Qaeda mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and his nephew, Ramzi Yousef, a nonsense word first men to the mean "big bang" in Serbo-Croatian. The plan, according to the 9/11 Commission report, was to detonate liquid explosives on U.S. commercial jumbo jets over a two-day period.

Terrorist operatives would board the planes in Asia and place bombs set to detonate over the Pacific en route to the United States. Mohammed's nephew even pulled off a successful test run on a Philippine Airlines flight headed for Tokyo.

Author Maria Ressa wrote about it in a book.

MARIA RESSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He carried with him on board liquid explosives. When he got on board, the plane midair, he put the bomb together, then he slid that under the seat that he was occupying. In Cebu, in the Philippines, he got off.

JOHNS: The ensuing explosion killed a passenger and forced this emergency landing in Okinawa. But what kept the larger plan from being executed was little more than a lucky break.

Authorities discovered a computer with Bojinka project plans, along with chemicals and what appeared to be bomb-making materials at Yousef's Manila apartment after a fire. Yousef was later captured and convicted. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is also in custody. But even with the Bojinka planners neutralized, the suspicion is that people they could have trained or even recruited are those behind the plot uncovered Thursday.

(on camera): So, if it is al Qaeda, why the fascination with planes? First, analysts say, attacks on airlines cripple commerce. Then there's the pure shock value of it. Plus, the fear such attacks create and the message that government can't protect the people.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, TERRORISM EXPERT: Al Qaeda are determined to strike commercial aviation. They see that as having an enormous global impact. And they're determined to think through ways they can evade detection of explosives at airports internationally. They're absolutely determined.

JOHNS (voice over): And that's why the same murderous themes keep getting tried out again and again, testing, probing and refining methods along the way.

Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Joe is part of the team covering the world for "ANDERSON COOPER 360," weeknights at 10:00 Eastern on CNN.

It is day 31 of fighting between Israel and Hezbollah. Here is what we know at this hour.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is at the U.N. to push a cease-fire plan. The Security Council's five permanent members when into session about 45 minutes ago. A vote could come today.

The bombing goes on, meanwhile. Lebanese security sources say Israeli jets hit a bridge near the Syrian border. That attack killed 11 Lebanese civilians. And dozens more Hezbollah rockets have fallen in northern Israel.

The U.N. refugee agency says it's working today to move tons of relief supplies to Lebanon by air, sea and land. Flights from Jordan landed in Beirut again this morning.

Let's check on what is happening with progress at the U.N. Our senior correspondent, Richard Roth, watching developments.

Richard, what are you thinking about a vote today, going to happen or no?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well, it could happen. There is frenzied diplomatic activity right now trying to put the finishing touches on this Russian -- excuse me, this French-American resolution, with a lot of visiting Arab League diplomats here and foreign ministers and Condoleezza Rice flying into town. Basically, the United States ambassador this morning says he thinks we're close to a potential vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMB. TO U.N.: I've been right every time, too. And I'll be right again this morning when I say we're getting closer.

And I have every aspiration to vote this afternoon, assuming, of course, all the members of the council are willing to wave the 24-hour rule. We're not yet at agreement, but we are very close. And if you'll excuse me, I now need to go explain that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: British Foreign Secretary Beckett flying here for a potential vote. The British ambassador, hopeful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMYR JONES PARRY, BRITISH AMB. TO U.N.: A range of discussions this morning. (INAUDIBLE) discussion, then there'll be a full discussion in the council. And it's obviously a very important day.

And I think the pressure's built up. I'm optimistic by the end of the day it will be clear whether we can vote on this text within the next 24 hours. My hope is that the unstinting efforts being made will actually bring that result. And that's what we're working for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: There are differences still remaining, though, gaps to be closed. Condoleezza Rice being sent here as the closer, but there's still no schedule for a vote. Just a few moments ago, the lone Arab country on the Security Council, the nation of Qatar, the ambassador said it comes down to the rules of engagement for an expanded U.N. peacekeeping mission that would be in southern Lebanon while Israel leaves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NASSIR ABDULAZIZ AL-NASSER, QATARI AMB. TO U.N.: Well, there was concern about using Chapter 7 and what's going to happen to Shebaa if they agree. I think it seems there's a new language now. I'm sure in two or three hours we will see, as I told you, another text.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: All right. I'll try to quickly clarify what he's talking about there.

That's still one of the differences. When he says "Shebaa," the disputed Shebaa Farms at the foot of the Golan Heights, that is still one of the points of disagreement of who will take control of that, whether it will be under the United Nations.

And he's saying "they," meaning Lebanon, Daryn, the Arab countries, still not wanting to have a very tough peace enforcement mission for those U.N. peacekeepers. They would rather a lesser, aggressive role. But Israel wants a very tough, robust force there -- Daryn.

KAGAN: A couple questions there. Why would Lebanon want a lesser force? Because they clearly need help in controlling Hezbollah in the south.

ROTH: Well, they don't want to have European troops on their soil with the possibility of shooting people, even if it's in the defense of their own people. They don't want an aggressive multinational force on their soil.

Critics or cynics in Israel and the U.S. would say that Lebanon wants to be able to protect the right of Hezbollah or any one of its citizens, wants to be in the south of the country. They don't want a multinational force with a very big enforcement and monitoring mission there.

KAGAN: And then the representative referred to "Chapter 7." Interpret that diplo speak, please.

ROTH: Yes, I know.

KAGAN: That's OK.

ROTH: We heard that, we don't like to use that. Chapter 7 does not refer to a novel here, but it is a key part of the United Nations charter. And that is the part which gives the peacekeepers the mandate to use force, if necessary, if the Security Council mandates a resolution, which is titled "Chapter 7."

KAGAN: All right. Thank you for those explanations.

Richard Roth monitoring things at the United Nations.

Chasing leads in the airline terror plot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): As we look for a possible al Qaeda connection, the question is, have we already been warned?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Christiane Amanpour investigates, only on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Now we know on the Richter scale, a 5.9 earthquake hitting about 126 miles west-southwest of Mexico City. But no reports of any damage. No reports of injuries. Just people getting a big scare this morning, about 45 minutes ago, Daryn, these new pictures of the hundreds of people who left those buildings and now waiting for word to go back in.

KAGAN: All right. Fredricka Whitfield.

Fred, thank you.

Let's get back to the alleged terror plot and tell you what we know at this hour.

At the quarter hour, about as many as 10 jetliners leaving London. British authorities say they have identified 19 of 24 suspects they have in custody. Many have names common in Pakistan.

Officials in Britain and the U.S. tell CNN two of the suspects may have had contact with a Pakistani explosives expert. He's suspected of being an al Qaeda operative and he still is at large.

Airline travelers here in the U.S. are facing a second day of restrictions regarding carry-on luggage. No gels, no liquids and no lotions if you want to go on board.

Investigators across the board are scouring for plot clues and concrete links to al Qaeda.

Here's our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR (voice-over): With the benefit of hindsight, the path to this thwarted plot is clear. Just 13 months ago, four bombs struck London, all on subways and buses. They left 52 dead and hundreds injured. That attack may point the way to what's happening now. What they learned then may also help investigators, as they seek to unravel an al Qaeda connection.

Is this a case of homegrown terror? The July 7 London subway bombers were British-born. That sent shivers through the country -- homegrown terror, it was said, not the work of al Qaeda, but sympathizers.

But the truth turns out to be different. A recent video from al Qaeda reveals, two of the subway bombers not only went to Pakistan, but actually received explosives training and direction from al Qaeda's senior-most leaders.

CRUICKSHANK: British authorities have indicated that the bombs used in the operation were of such sophistication, that they must have been the result of some form of al Qaeda training, probably in Pakistan.

AMANPOUR: So, is there a Pakistani connection in this case, something that might point investigators toward that al Qaeda connection?

The early answer seems to be yes. New information from two U.S. government officials reveals that two of the suspects recently traveled to Pakistan. Government sources in the U.S. and Pakistan tell CNN that arrests in Pakistan may have made the difference.

Intelligence from Pakistan led British authorities to speed up their investigation, make arrests, and shut down the plot.

CRUICKSHANK: Pakistan is the new Afghanistan for al Qaeda. The crucial thing is that individuals involved with al Qaeda are now in Pakistan. That savoir faire, that knowledge is now in Pakistan. And it has been speculated now that the people involved in this current plot in London were also able to take advantage of that.

AMANPOUR: Is this part of a terrorist game plan? Indeed, simultaneous attacks, like the four London bombings on subways and buses and the four hijacked jets of 9/11, are hallmarks of al Qaeda.

But the framework for this kind of attack revealed today seems to date back more than a decade, to 1994. Back then, al Qaeda was already experimenting with blowing up planes using liquid explosives. In fact, a year later, they plotted to blow up 12 planes flying from Asia to the United States.

And there was Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, now in federal prison. Just three months after 9/11, he tried to blow up a plane flying from the U.K. to the U.S. Reid was also a member of al Qaeda.

Finally, as we look for a possible al Qaeda connection, the question is, have we already been warned?

Listen to what Osama bin Laden had to say earlier this year, propaganda, perhaps, but, today, one can't help but wonder if he was sending a message.

OSAMA BIN LADEN, AL QAEDA LEADER (through translator): They are in the planning stages. And you will see them in the heart of your land, as soon as planning is complete.

AMANPOUR: Christiane Amanpour, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Christiane is uniquely qualified to cover al Qaeda and the war on terror. Later this month, you can see her investigative documentary on Osama bin Laden. New insights into the man who declared war on the United States from the people who know him, childhood friends, teachers, Saudi royalty.

"In the Footsteps of bin Laden." See the two-hour premier Wednesday, August 23rd, 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

It's only right here on CNN.

We want to get the view from the airports around the country and check in on the Dallas-Fort Worth airport.

For that, let's talk to reporter Emily Lopez. She is with our affiliate KDFW.

Emily, good morning. It looks kind of quiet there behind you.

EMILY LOPEZ, REPORTER, KDFW: Good morning. And we've had lulls in the airport here. Not too busy right now, but it has been busy all morning long.

Take a look at this. This is what's all over the airport posted, these flyers. They're being handed to people as they park their cars. There are signs that have posted in the garages and in the airport terminals warning passengers what is prohibited now on flights.

Take a look at what's going on behind me. Now, this morning, there were K-9 units and extra patrols in the terminals, in the parking garages. There were bomb-sniffing dogs, which could be seen making their way throughout DFW airport. For the first time in three years...

KAGAN: All right. I think we have a little audio problem talking to our Emily Lopez from KDFW. It looks a little quiet there, Dallas-Fort Worth. We'll see if we can get that back.

We're also going to go over to Lebanon, check in, in southern Lebanon. In Tyre, more shelling there today. This is going on as there is a scurry of activity at the U.N. They are trying to get together to take a vote, perhaps later today, on a cease-fire agreement.

We'll have the latest from both sides of the ocean.

You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: It is day 31 of fighting between Israel and Hezbollah. Here is what we know at the half-hour.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice goes to the United Nations to push a cease-fire plan.

The Security Council's five permanent members when the into session about 45 minutes ago. A vote could come today.

The bombing goes on. Lebanese security sources say that Israeli jets hit a bridge near the Syrian border. That attack killed 11 Lebanese civilians.

And dozens more Hezbollah rockets have fallen in northern Israel.

The U.N. refugee agency says it's working to move tons of relief supplies to Lebanon by air, sea and land. Flights from Jordan landed in Beirut again this morning.

And that leads us to Lebanon -- fleeing the battlefield.

A U.N. convoy left a Lebanese army base today. They're evacuating hundreds of Lebanese security forces, plus civilians, as well.

Our Michael Ware joins us from Marjayoun in Lebanon with more on that.

Michael, hello. Tell us about this convoy.

MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Where we are now is in the hills -- a hill overlooking Marjayoun. This is one of the central targets of the Israeli military campaign.

It's been under siege for some time now. It's been the scene of intense fighting over the last 24 to 48 hours. In fact, we're being told by Lebanese security forces, Hezbollah and the U.N. that when the Israelis first went in there, they were driven back by Hezbollah fighters and they took sanctuary in a Lebanese army compound.

What has happened in the hours since is that the Lebanese army and a large number of civilians, at the behest of the Lebanese government, called in the U.N., who brokered a deal with the Israelis to allow a corridor for this convoy, led by the Lebanese army, bringing out the civilians from the battle zone. We are standing now on part of that U.N.-brokered convoy waiting for them to pass us by.

KAGAN: Well, Michael, let's talk about this area. If there are fighters to push back the Israelis, then clearly there's a reason that the Israelis have great interest in attacking this. Is it a Hezbollah stronghold?

WARE: It's a very key part of the terrain here down in southern Lebanon. Where I'm standing right now is only a few miles from the Israeli border. And this town of Marjayoun is a key piece of high ground.

The Israelis occupied it throughout the occupation in the '80s. They want it back again. It's dominant terrain that allows them to strike out to the key Litani River and allows them to govern the border.

Hezbollah has been resisting them. And we've heard from numerous sources, Lebanese and U.N., that several Israeli tanks were destroyed in this town. The Israelis have since brought in reinforcements.

The bombing campaign continues in preparation for what we suspect will be the second phase of the attack. In fact, while I'm speaking to you now, these valleys are rumbling with rolling bursts of explosions as the Israeli air force continues to isolate this town as the convoy is making its way here right now.

KAGAN: And so part of this convoy are these civilians who want to get out. What happens to them once they get out? Where do they go?

WARE: Well, that will be up to the Lebanese government and other NGOs who will move to support them. What we hear is that they're going to be moving as far north as possible, perhaps to Beirut itself, where they'll be put into makeshift refugee camps or other facilities.

But essentially, what happened is, when the Israelis pulled back and entered the Lebanese army barracks, they knew that Hezbollah would not attack a Lebanese army facility. The Lebanese army told the Israelis to leave. The Israelis refused.

So with the U.N.'s help, the Lebanese army said, fine, then we shall leave. And they took the civilians with them.

KAGAN: Michael Ware, live from south Lebanon on that U.N. convoy helping both Lebanese military and civilians to evacuate from there.

Thank you.

The death toll is rising this morning on both sides of the border. Israel now says 124 of its citizens have been killed since the fighting began on July 12th.

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