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CNN Live Today

Confrontation on United Airlines Flight

Aired August 16, 2006 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: But I do, since we are at the half hour, want to update those that are watching with us on CNN here in the U.S. and all around the world on CNN International. The story we are watching unfold is taking place at this point in Boston, Massachusetts. United flight 923 left earlier today from London. It was headed to Washington D.C., but at some point over the Atlantic a passenger became upset, according to the Transportation Security administration for the Massachusetts airport. She said she became claustrophobic and became very upset, got into some kind of confrontation with the flight crew. She was restrained onboard. The pilot made the decision that he needed to land the plane sooner than Washington D.C. So he took it here to Boston Logan International Airport.
All 186 people, passengers, and the 12 flight crew members have been offloaded. And this is a picture we're watching now, these live pictures, all of the luggage taken off the plane right there on the runway at Logan, Separated piece by piece, and law enforcement officials and dogs going over it.

The other people have been taken. They're probably clearing customs, waiting, standing by in Boston before they can load the plane once again and head back to Washington D.C.

All right, Mike Brooks, let's bring you back in here, and talk a little bit -- I don't know if you can see what we're showing on CNN, but basically we are showing the search of this luggage taking place right there on the runway.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Right, that's exactly -- that's normal procedure. They'll go ahead and take all of the luggage off, try to separate and find out if this person had a checked bag. But they'll go ahead and check everything now. And you'll see they're using explosive-sniffing canine dogs to go over each one of them. And if the dog has a positive hit on one of those bags, then they'll go ahead and handle it from there. But that's normal procedure when you have an incident like this, and especially in light of the London bombing plot.

KAGAN: And, Mike, Chad Myers has a question for you -- Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Mike, I've been looking at Google Earth here, and actually we have a map here of Logan Airport, and the plane actually ended up down where 15-R would actually start. That runway, 15-R, which literally, Mike, I'm telling you, it's 100 yards from terminal E, where most of the international arrivals happen any way. Why wouldn't they take that plane and turn that plane into the international terminal and deplane it there and take the bags off there? Is this added security because it is away from the terminal?

BROOKS: Yes, Chad, what they usually do, when they have an incident like this, they'll have what they call a runoff area, an area where they used to take planes for hijackings, if there's a hijacking onboard. They want to take it away from the terminal, just in case there is hazardous material on board, so they don't have to evacuate the whole terminal, should they find something onboard the aircraft.

MYERS: I see. Very good. Because that's what we have been seeing here. Obviously that plane came in, looks like it did make the right-hand turn, because most arrivals have been coming in from the northeast, at least they are now.

And, Daryn, we have been watching flight explorer and planes are still making their way to Boston Logan without a holding pattern, so that's good news for passengers that are still in the air.

KAGAN: Right, I think it's important to point out as we're watch this unfold that we do hear from federal security officials, they do not believe this to be an act of terrorism. So I think that's important for people to stand down in terms of their level of concern.

And yet, Mike, if you are still with us, talk about, even when they've reach that conclusion why they have to go through all these procedures.

BROOKS: Once they start the procedures, they'll go ahead and finish them up. And just, again, it's an added precaution. They want to make sure that that plane is totally clean of any hazardous material, any other women that could be onboard, and they'll go ahead and they have their steps they go through, their procedures they go through. Once they start the procedure, they'll go ahead and follow the procedure all the way through to the end.

And, again, just an abundance of caution, and they have done this before; they'll do it again, if something like this happens again.

I also want to point out, Daryn, that fighter jets were scrambled to intercept this plane and escort it into Logan Airport.

KAGAN: Right. Our Jeanne Meserve -- also our Barbara Starr out of the Pentagon had quite a bit of information on that. And I believe what we're look at right now is actually tape. The people are -- all the passengers have already been offloaded and are inside.

Mike, quick question for you, if I'm onboard the flight or part of this flight, and I'm stuck in Boston, I'm wondering how long.

BROOKS: It's -- it shouldn't take too long. It's been playing out here for quite some time now. But as soon as they can get those bags screened to their satisfaction, they'll try to get the passengers, you know, united with their luggage so they can be on their way to any other flights they might have. But if you're a passenger onboard, you just have be patient, because it's going to take some time. KAGAN: All right, Mike Brooks, thank you for your input on that. Our coverage is going to continue. We're watching the story of United flight 923, which was making its way from London to Washington D.C., diverted because of an unruly female passenger, to Boston Logan International Airport.

Our coverage continues. Right now a quick break. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan.

Welcome back to our continuing coverage of what we are watching happen and develop, that is United flight 923. It on the ground in Boston, Massachusetts. It is in the custody now of state and federal agencies. They have control of that plane. That is after a female passenger that was on board that flight, that was making its way from London to Washington D.C. caused some sort of disturbance. The pilot made the decision that it was to land in Boston instead. The woman has been found to have onboard with her some items that you should not have been able to take with you onboard a commercial flight from London here into the U.S., including our Jeanne Meserve is reporting, Vaseline and a screwdriver.

She, according to "The Boston Globe," has been arrested by Massachusetts state police, for interfering with an international flight. Everyone else onboard the flight has been offloaded. They are standing by waiting to be given the clearance to go back to Washington, D.C.

Meanwhile, all the luggage has been taken off as well, and we've been able to see pictures of police and police dogs going over each piece of luggage one by one.

There you go. There are those pictures of that.

As we watch the pictures and the story unfold, let's check in with Carol Lin -- Carol.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Daryn, the emphasis is story unfolding. So bear with us. We know that our homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve has reported that a government official has confirmed to her these suspicious items you that you just mentioned were in the possession of this woman. But now the Associated Press, there's some conflicting reports out there. According to the A.P., an official denies reports that she was carrying these suspicious items, Vaseline, screwdriver, matches, or a note referencing al Qaeda.

So our American bureau is working on this, and of course you can trust CNN to bring you the most accurate information. You know, Jeanne Meserve did that early reporting and I believe her, so we'll see what this conflicting information really is.

In the meantime, we want to get more insight into what happened onboard that plane. So with on the telephone is Jon Regas. He's an airline pilot.

Jon, Give us an idea of who makes the decision to divert an airplane, and how that decision is handled.

JON REGAS, AIRLINE PILOT: Yes, good morning. Naturally, the captain or pilot in command, as it's known technically, is -- will make the final decision on the diversion. However, he usually consults with a number of people, including what is referred to as the airline dispatch office. Certainly the FAA. He -- the remaining -- remainder -- remaining part of his crew, the flight attendants are vital on a day like today.

LIN: Jon, let me interrupt you at that point. Because, if you were sitting in that pilot's seat...

REGAS: Yes.

LIN: ... and there was a confrontation going on with the crew -- all right, so things are happening onboard your plane. What you're describing is a step-by-step, pardon the word, if you will, bureaucracy to try to get this kind of clearance. What's going through your mind at the time?

REGAS: Well, the first thing nowadays is the pilot must stay in the cockpit protected by the heavy duty door in order to maintain control of the plane. They would -- the pilot would decide to start heading towards the nearest suitable airport. And while Bangor, Maine, has been mentioned, if the situation was more under control, Boston is a much better choice. It allows for better connecting flights. And as you know, the Washington shuttles from Boston could accommodate people to Washington National Airport.

But if there was a federal air marshal on board, I would consult by what we call the interphone. It's a little telephone between the cockpit and the back end of the airplane. And certainly the flight attendants.

LIN: Who would actually, if -- well, first of all, let me get back to this issue of the air marshals. Because I just spoke with a former TSA undersecretary who felt very confident that there was not an air marshal on this flight because, in his words, if there was an air marshal on this flight this would not happening as we're seeing it on the air.

So can you give me an idea of whether or not you think an air marshal might have been on this plane and could have prevented this diversion? Was able to, perhaps, control the situation?

REGAS: Well, even if the air marshal had been on board, the wise thing would have been to land at Boston and take care of it. There's simply no reason to fly some -- another 60 minutes or so down to Washington Dulles if you can land at Boston. The prime concern of the pilot, once some security situation like this -- is to get the airplane on the ground, and then it becomes no more difficult a situation than one might expect at a large retail store or building on the ground. When the airplane is in the air, it still is a potential weapon that we learned from 9/11.

LIN: Absolutely. And you know what else we learned on 9/11, John Regas, is the courage and the forethought and the training of that flight crew is absolutely critical in any kind of emergency situation. They're the one who keep the passengers calm. They're the ones who figure out if necessary how to restrain a passenger who may be a threat to others. So, really, hats off to the crew who was onboard this United Airlines flight out of Heathrow.

REGAS: The crew may have also been aided by able-bodied passengers. Perhaps, for example, a United States soldier coming home on leave. Flight attendants are trained to find the good people on board who are physically capable of helping. And they are also equipped with small devices that are not quite handcuffs -- they're sort of plastic handcuffs. And this woman could probably be relatively easily overpowered.

Many questions come to mind, though. If this was not an intentional situation, there's the question of mental illness on board of the passenger in question -- comes to mind. The question is also, has this woman been served alcohol either prior to take-off or during the flight? Or countless variations on this theme.

LIN: But the job of the pilot is to remain safe, inside the cockpit, behind locked doors, so you can manage the situation and get the plane safely on the ground?

REGAS: Yes, and sadly, on 9/11, we learned that the pilots have to stay in the cockpit. Prior to that, the -- one pilot would normally come back and assess the situation. And on 9/11, we learned that that just doesn't work anymore. And it's not because the pilots don't want to be involved, it's just that they're the only people who can get the plane on the ground.

And now, the passengers feel equipped to assist the flight attendants in a situation like this. And there had been many incidents in the past when a passenger has become unruly or has been on drugs, or has not had sufficient medication. And you may even recall a tragedy in Miami where federal air marshals shot a mentally ill passenger as the plane was parked at the gate.

LIN: Right, right.

REGAS: So all of these questions come to mind. And that's why, when the flight attendants union and the pilots union and all its interested parties, speak out about even something which we don't know for a fact yet, like a screwdriver being allowed into the cabin, really we shouldn't allow things like that, because they can be used as weapons.

And it's the flight attendants that have to deal with it. It's the flight attendants who should make the call whether something like that is allowed on the plane.

LIN: All right. Well, at this point, John, we're still working out the details of that. Conflicting reports as to whether there was a screwdriver, Vaseline, which would be considered a gel. It's not allowed on flights anymore. John Regas, thank you very much for joining with us and giving us the insight of a pilot and how a pilot would handle a situation like this on a commercial flight.

Daryn, we're looking at these pictures where you make out, barely, the dots on the ground, luggage of these passenger, 182 people on board that United Airlines flight. And a long delay in Boston as they check for weapons, explosives, anything that might be a threat.

KAGAN: All right, Carol. Thank you for that. And our coverage of United Flight 923 that was supposed to make it from London to D.C., now on the ground in Boston, will continue after this. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Going back to our coverage of United Flight 923, the plane that was supposed to go from London to Washington, D.C., on the ground in Boston after a female passenger caused some type of disturbance on board. Officials are saying right now this is not terrorism related, if there's enough concern to take all 186 passengers off the plane, the 12 crew members, as well.

Our justice correspondent Kelli Arena bringing us new developments from Washington, D.C. -- Kelli.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, as you said, officials are telling us repeatedly that there is no terrorism connection here. As a matter of fact, they're downplaying the whole idea of a security threat, period. We were told by an FBI official that this was a 60-year-old woman, that she became unruly, perhaps because of a panic attack or something like that, that she got into a confrontation with some other passengers, then the crew.

It's unclear, Daryn, whether she was actually carrying any of those prohibited items or not. FBI officials say that they don't have any information on exactly what she had with her.

But interfering with a flight crew is something that can be prosecuted by the feds. You know, there's no information on whether that's going to be the case here, Daryn. But I have to tell you that the officials, the law enforcement officials, that we have spoke to are seriously downplaying any idea of a threat. As you know, in this environment, everything will be checked and rechecked just to make sure before going forward, because, of course, safety is paramount in this situation.

And because we are, you know -- this is just, you know, days after we had this plot uncovered.

A little bit about this information about what she may have had or hasn't had, Daryn, I can tell you from personal experience that just in trying to get information on the British investigation and the most recent airline threats, there is so much misinformation that is being bandied about from really reliable sources, people we speak to on a regular basis, who really believe they have accurate information, but there's so much misinformation thrown about that...

KAGAN: Like what is an example of that?

ARENA: Well, you know, a really good source. Jeanne came on, and she was told by a reliable source that this woman had certain things on her person. There are now reports that maybe she didn't. We'll have to see where that ends up. But that does not mean we are not talking to people who are usually equipped with very accurate information. It's just that this is such a tense time, Daryn, it is so tense and it has been tense since last week, with so much misinformation making the rounds, even in the circles that you would think would have the proper information to share.

KAGAN: Absolutely.

Let's back away from those reports of what she might have had on board with her. This does also look like this is taking a turn toward resolving itself, as when the camera was in -- zoomed in a little bit more, we saw the luggage that had been out there on the runway being loaded back on to some of the luggage carts perhaps, to get it back onboard the flight.

ARENA: Right, and that would have been -- I mean, obviously what they were doing was sweeping for any explosive residue or anything like that. And once that's clear, it's not like anybody can do anything with what's in their baggage unless, you know, there's a bomb or there's some explosives. And once that's negated, on it goes, and, you know, get those people back on and reload.

KAGAN: Absolutely. Kelly, thank you for that.

ARENA: You're welcome, Daryn.

KAGAN: I want to welcome in Phillip Baum. He is the current editor of "Aviation Security International Magazine."

Mr. Baum, hello to you.

PHILLIP BAUM, FMR. HEAD OF SECURITY TRAINING, TWA: Hello. Good morning to you. Good afternoon from London.

KAGAN: Good afternoon. So you're actually in London.

BAUM: That's right.

KAGAN: OK, that's interesting information, that this flight originated in London.

From what you've been able to hear about the process that's taken place, this would be standard procedure given the current environment?

BAUM: Absolutely standard procedure. And indeed after September 11th, and after a number of other aviation security-related incidents, we've seen a rash of aircraft diversions, usually as a result of disruptive passenger activity onboard aircraft. People are understandably very jittery at this moment in time, especially here in London. And you know, nobody is taking any chances.

KAGAN: Yes, and this isn't just any aircraft, this is one that originated in London, was headed to Washington D.C., probably no other flight that you could come up with that would cause more concern.

BAUM: Absolutely. Albeit, you know, a lot of the debate in the U.K. over the last few days has been actually about passenger profiling. And we don't yet know, your previous reporter said that it's possible that this woman didn't have the screwdriver and Vaseline on her person. And people are saying, hey, how could anybody get through security with those items?

KAGAN: Which would be a good question.

BAUM: Well, it's a good question, but the reality is you cannot identify screwdrivers on 100 percent of the time. We would hope -- and I know the general public would like to believe that the current technology will identify all of the threat items. For as long as we rely on the technologies that we originally introduced back in the '60s to deal with the threat of Cuban hijackers, we are not going to address this problem, because people can -- screwdrivers don't have to be metallic, and I'm sure that you've got enough viewers that can probably tell stories about things that they have accidentally taken onboard aircraft, even though the handbaggage was X-rayed and even though they walked through metal detectors.

I know it's a heightened state of awareness here in London, and indeed around the world, but the reality is, unless you can strip search everybody, which we are not going to do, and take away all handbaggage, which we should not do, when...

KAGAN: You are taking a chance when you get onboard.

Let me ask you this, because we only have about a minute left, and I'm really interested in a couple of points that you made. First of all, passenger profiling -- what is the status of that in the U.K.?

BAUM: Well, the Department of Transport here in the U.K. is looking at the idea of profiling, but of course profiling means different things to different people. In the States, I know there's been a lot of focus on computer profiling.

My view of profiling is looking for normal behavior. I call it positive profiling, identifying the people that you know are no threat, or an extremely low threat, like your elderly grandmothers that look like grandmothers, act like grandmothers, and more importantly interact with the outside world like grandmothers, likewise the business travelers, likewise the families. Let's identify them, use existing technologies to fasttrack them through the screening process, and focus our attention using advanced technologies, such as explosive-detection technologies, body scans and possibly physical searches on those people who we don't know why they're traveling, not necessarily because they're suspicious, but because we don't know why they are traveling.

KAGAN: Yes, it's a topic I would love to talk to you more about. Our time is short, so I'm going to go ahead and thank you. Philip Baum, current editor of "Aviation National Security" magazine, joining us from London on the phone.

Our coverage of this developing story will continue. I'm Daryn Kagan. Keep watching CNN.

"YOUR WORLD TODAY" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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